New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
Makes no difference how they win it (or not). The next GE is wide open between a Tory (or Tory led) government (about 45%), Labour led government (about 45%) and Labour outright government (5-10%).
Until December we had a trillion Tory poll leads in a row. Since then we have had a zillion Labour poll leads in a row. It is not possible to work out which will be the case when the election is called. ATM the Tories are doing their best to lose, and Labour are having a crack at being sane. The Labour left can, without breaking sweat, lose it for Labour simply by saying what they actually think in public.
If you ask: Which party deserves to win the next election the answer is (obvs), neither.
But if you ask which party is capable of losing the next election, the answer, equally obvs is 'Both'. Hence, more or less my suggestion of what the odds should roughly be.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Also - and I may be labouring under a misapprehension here - isn't obstructing the highway an offence? And what the eco-loons doing therefore a)illegal, and b) in theory at least dealable-with by the police?
Have we noted that both the traditional French main parties - the Socialists and the Republicans (Pecresse), as well as the Greens - all have financial challenges as they will not be getting central funding for their campaigns as they did not make a 5% threshold in the first round of the Presidential Election.
I think it's fascinating to see how the legislative elections will go. I imagine if Macron is re-elected, it'll be a real fillip for LREM and it supporting parties who might win another majority.
Support for Le Pen to be President has never so far translated into support for FN (or RN as it is now called) in the National Assembly (ditto for Melenchon who put up a strong performance this time). The "conventional" centre-left and centre-right parties do better in the National Assembly elections but the disastrous performances of Hidalgo and Pecresse will put this to the test.
Fillon got 20% in 2017 and LR got 19% in the subsequent National Assembly election but if Pecresse got 5% this time, what will this mean for LR and its allies?
It's not impossible Macron's group wins another landslide and the FI (Melenchon's lot) become the main opposition.
"We need to think about a Le Pen presidency France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Also - and I may be labouring under a misapprehension here - isn't obstructing the highway an offence? And what the eco-loons doing therefore a)illegal, and b) in theory at least dealable-with by the police?
So ask why ER have been allowed to obstruct traffic? And why the woman who nudged one with her car was found guilty. I’d give her a medal.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Also - and I may be labouring under a misapprehension here - isn't obstructing the highway an offence? And what the eco-loons doing therefore a)illegal, and b) in theory at least dealable-with by the police?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
My take on the situation in the Left is that although they're mega pissed off with Starmer they hate Boris even more.
They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.
May be wrong. Just my take.
You have that the wrong way around. The eye swivelling Corbynites are a bit pissed off with Boris Johnson but they hate Starmer even more.
But the Corbynites are an endangered species and will soon be extinct. And the more they get upset the better it is for Starmer.
To an extent all the "I'd never vote Conservative" West Yorkshire Brexiteer voters are now fully signed up to the Johnson fan club. Those who remained, like our very own BJO, a "Labour 'til I die" character would rather drag himself across Hades than vote Starmer.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Where they sweet potato fries, for extra trendy points ?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Expectations management. Not so dishy Rishi to be thrown under the bus. If the Tories do well it is Johnson’s brilliance. If they don’t Sunak is to blame.
"We need to think about a Le Pen presidency France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
No, the judge said "at a later date".
As I understand it, the recall kicks in if he gets a sentence of more than a year; otherwise a petition can be mounted - either possibility then takes effect without waiting for an appeal. If he successfully appeals but someone else has won in the meantime, the result is not overturned, though of course he could stand again in that case.
It does create a potential injustice - if he appeals and is found innocent but has lost his job in the meantime
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
"We need to think about a Le Pen presidency France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Interesting class warfare angle there. Are all middle class people arseholes? Can one find virtue outside of the horny-handed sons of toil? If I once bought a bottle of Perrier, am I to be shot with the rest of the bourgeois when your revolution comes?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Also - and I may be labouring under a misapprehension here - isn't obstructing the highway an offence? And what the eco-loons doing therefore a)illegal, and b) in theory at least dealable-with by the police?
So ask why ER have been allowed to obstruct traffic? And why the woman who nudged one with her car was found guilty. I’d give her a medal.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Where they sweet potato fries, for extra trendy points ?
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There are aspects to this. I'd like to think of myself as fairly (not abnormally) intelligent, fairly open-minded, and fairly open to new ideas. Which is why I'm on PB. I'm also *amazingly* attractive, and can surpass Gimpo (*) in the bedroom department.
I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)
But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.
(*) Of KLF fame.
In some ways I'd love to contribute to politics, now that I actually know stuff & have some knowledge and experience to offer. But I'd hate the effect on my family and, frankly, it's all hypothetical because (a) I can barely find a party to vote for let alone represent and (b) there is NFW any party would take a bolshie woman like me.
I could almost certainly be more useful elsewhere.
When I studied politics at university the students were roughly divided into those who took it seriously and went into politics (they were all weird in some way and some you'd cross the road to avoid so odd were they) and others who were just interested in it intellectually. Whenever I see politicians trying to show how like us they are, I always remember the weird loons from uni days and go ..... hmmm....
Not sure how we get better ones. But on the day that David Amess's murderer is convicted, it is worth remembering that many MPs are, however odd they may be, in it to serve the public.
May the poor man rest in peace and his family find some consolation in justice finally having been done.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Interesting class warfare angle there. Are all middle class people arseholes? Can one find virtue outside of the horny-handed sons of toil? If I once bought a bottle of Perrier, am I to be shot with the rest of the bourgeois when your revolution comes?
The ones that glue themselves to roads and stop people trying to get to work most definitely and you notice anytime you see those protestors whether XR or insulate they are almost invariably not working class people scraping along on a zero hour contract
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
Isn't that what Party canvassers are supposed to do?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Also - and I may be labouring under a misapprehension here - isn't obstructing the highway an offence? And what the eco-loons doing therefore a)illegal, and b) in theory at least dealable-with by the police?
So ask why ER have been allowed to obstruct traffic? And why the woman who nudged one with her car was found guilty. I’d give her a medal.
"We need to think about a Le Pen presidency France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
Clickbait. There has only ever been one winner of this election. Any statement to the contrary is to drive likes and/or traffic.
Okay. Ignore the polls that show an average of 52/48.
Wouldn't you have to be somewhat selective to get polls 'that show an average of 52/48'? What average do all the 2nd round polls from say 1st April provide?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Where they sweet potato fries, for extra trendy points ?
Fortunately no - I HATE sweet potato!
You’d get on with my wife !
One evening I made her a sweet potato and chickpea curry. She had the right hump and refused to talk to me for the rest of the evening. I’d also made a dhal dish she called over salty baby food.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Interesting class warfare angle there. Are all middle class people arseholes? Can one find virtue outside of the horny-handed sons of toil? If I once bought a bottle of Perrier, am I to be shot with the rest of the bourgeois when your revolution comes?
The ones that glue themselves to roads and stop people trying to get to work most definitely and you notice anytime you see those protestors whether XR or insulate they are almost invariably not working class people scraping along on a zero hour contract
I don't really care what social class you put people into, your class warfare is not part of my moral compass.
But it's good to know that the woman driving at £80,000 car into a couple of people sat on the floor was doing it for The Revoluion. One learns many things on here.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
My take on the situation in the Left is that although they're mega pissed off with Starmer they hate Boris even more.
They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.
May be wrong. Just my take.
You have that the wrong way around. The eye swivelling Corbynites are a bit pissed off with Boris Johnson but they hate Starmer even more.
But the Corbynites are an endangered species and will soon be extinct. And the more they get upset the better it is for Starmer.
To an extent all the "I'd never vote Conservative" West Yorkshire Brexiteer voters are now fully signed up to the Johnson fan club. Those who remained, like our very own BJO, a "Labour 'til I die" character would rather drag himself across Hades than vote Starmer.
Fortunately for Starmer 9% of GE2019 CON voters are, according to tonight's R&W poll, now say they back LAB.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Also - and I may be labouring under a misapprehension here - isn't obstructing the highway an offence? And what the eco-loons doing therefore a)illegal, and b) in theory at least dealable-with by the police?
So ask why ER have been allowed to obstruct traffic? And why the woman who nudged one with her car was found guilty. I’d give her a medal.
I think she pleaded guilty, didn't she?
She did, I imagine under advisement from legal advice. Plea bargaining in essence. Morally I’m on her side.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
The expectations management has already started, my friend.
Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).
I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
You make a man feel sorry for the poor bookies, Stodgie.
Well done.
Nice to see Newmarket back tomorrow, my friend.
I quite like TACARIB BAY in the Free Handicap but this is always a meeting to watch the races and take note of those shaping like future winners.
As you may know, I have retired from serious punting but I still like to watch and go occasionally. I always liked Newmarket but found it a difficult track to figure. It looks flat, but has subtle undulations that can easily unbalance a horse. I'm not sure good form there necessarily translates well elsewhere.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Interesting class warfare angle there. Are all middle class people arseholes? Can one find virtue outside of the horny-handed sons of toil? If I once bought a bottle of Perrier, am I to be shot with the rest of the bourgeois when your revolution comes?
The ones that glue themselves to roads and stop people trying to get to work most definitely and you notice anytime you see those protestors whether XR or insulate they are almost invariably not working class people scraping along on a zero hour contract
I don't really care what social class you put people into, your class warfare is not part of my moral compass.
But it's good to know that the woman driving at £80,000 car into a couple of people sat on the floor was doing it for The Revoluion. One learns many things on here.
I was not indulging in class warfare I was having a go at Al for calling it an inconvenience and pointing out pretty much all that post here are in a privileged position where yes it would be merely an inconvenience , that for millions of people it took food from there mouths. I think most people understood that except for you it seems....frankly I don't care about your lack of comprehension skills
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
But those fuel protesters were the right sort of fuel protesters. Conservative fuel protesters. Heroes all.
That’s always the case with those who are overly partisan. If this was piers Corbyn and his anti vaxx loons, or our tommeh and his right wing anti immigration nutters the whole debate would be turned on it’s head.
Expectations management. Not so dishy Rishi to be thrown under the bus. If the Tories do well it is Johnson’s brilliance. If they don’t Sunak is to blame.
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
Kensington used to be posh peoples country house.
Likewise Hackney, hence the term 'Hackney Carriage' which brought the wealthy into London proper in the most elegant of conveyances.
Expectations management. Not so dishy Rishi to be thrown under the bus. If the Tories do well it is Johnson’s brilliance. If they don’t Sunak is to blame.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
Kensington used to be posh peoples country house.
Still feels like it, sometimes
The King's Road is so-called because the King used to parade down it, with all his cavalry and pomp, when he was en route to one of his rural palaces - Hampton Court or Windsor or whatever
Kensington is proper posh in places (and surprisingly gritty in others). It is definitely NOT "central London"
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
Kensington used to be posh peoples country house.
Still feels like it, sometimes
The King's Road is so-called because the King used to parade down it, with all his cavalry and pomp, when he was en route to one of his rural palaces - Hampton Court or Windsor or whatever
Kensington is proper posh in places (and surprisingly gritty in others). It is definitely NOT "central London"
On that definition then only the City of London and Westminster count as central London.
Kensington is west London or part of a broader inner London
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
I feel funny as well describing the City of London as Central London as they are really two cities - Central London to me brings images of Leicester Square and the West End not the City .
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Interesting class warfare angle there. Are all middle class people arseholes? Can one find virtue outside of the horny-handed sons of toil? If I once bought a bottle of Perrier, am I to be shot with the rest of the bourgeois when your revolution comes?
The ones that glue themselves to roads and stop people trying to get to work most definitely and you notice anytime you see those protestors whether XR or insulate they are almost invariably not working class people scraping along on a zero hour contract
I don't really care what social class you put people into, your class warfare is not part of my moral compass.
But it's good to know that the woman driving at £80,000 car into a couple of people sat on the floor was doing it for The Revoluion. One learns many things on here.
I was not indulging in class warfare I was having a go at Al for calling it an inconvenience and pointing out pretty much all that post here are in a privileged position where yes it would be merely an inconvenience , that for millions of people it took food from there mouths. I think most people understood that except for you it seems....frankly I don't care about your lack of comprehension skills
Yes, I understood quite well what you were doing. You were talking to a left-winger and trying to recast a dispute between eco-protesters and motorists as a class struggle. I'm well versed with these sorts of argument. If you'd been talking to a right winger you'd probably have portrayed the protesters and unemployable soap-dodgers who should really get a job and stop scrounging off the state, right? Well, if not, one doesn't have to look hard to find exactly those types of descriptions for these people.
I'm sorry that your transparent attempt to have your opponent join you in kicking a straw man didn't work. It could have worked, but not today. Still, there are other days.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
I am instinctively anti the edgelording of Euston Station into Central London. On the other hand, the magnificent King's Cross development definitely does FEEL like Central London now, yet it is NW1 (like me in Camden)
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
I love the word incovenience so casually bandied about around here. Most of those on this board are comfortably off middle class and either in salaried jobs or jobs where being a couple of hours late is just something to be joked about due to "bloody protesters" round the coffee machine.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Interesting class warfare angle there. Are all middle class people arseholes? Can one find virtue outside of the horny-handed sons of toil? If I once bought a bottle of Perrier, am I to be shot with the rest of the bourgeois when your revolution comes?
The ones that glue themselves to roads and stop people trying to get to work most definitely and you notice anytime you see those protestors whether XR or insulate they are almost invariably not working class people scraping along on a zero hour contract
I don't really care what social class you put people into, your class warfare is not part of my moral compass.
But it's good to know that the woman driving at £80,000 car into a couple of people sat on the floor was doing it for The Revoluion. One learns many things on here.
I was not indulging in class warfare I was having a go at Al for calling it an inconvenience and pointing out pretty much all that post here are in a privileged position where yes it would be merely an inconvenience , that for millions of people it took food from there mouths. I think most people understood that except for you it seems....frankly I don't care about your lack of comprehension skills
Yes, I understood quite well what you were doing. You were talking to a left-winger and trying to recast a dispute between eco-protesters and motorists as a class struggle. I'm well versed with these sorts of argument. If you'd been talking to a right winger you'd probably have portrayed the protesters and unemployable soap-dodgers who should really get a job and stop scrounging off the state, right? Well, if not, one doesn't have to look hard to find exactly those types of descriptions for these people.
I'm sorry that your transparent attempt to have your opponent join you in kicking a straw man didn't work. It could have worked, but not today. Still, there are other days.
Interesting viewpoint but totally wrong sorry try again. If you think making the point that this so call inconvenience has the result of costing the least well off money isn't worth pointing out as part of the debate then there is no hope for you
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
Kensington used to be posh peoples country house.
Likewise Hackney, hence the term 'Hackney Carriage' which brought the wealthy into London proper in the most elegant of conveyances.
I went out to see Rafe Sadler’s house a few months ago. Not a poor man… but no longer the nicest part of town
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
I feel funny as well describing the City of London as Central London as they are really two cities - Central London to me brings images of Leicester Square and the West End not the City .
The City is ABSOLUTELY Central London. It is the historic core of historic cores. It is the London Stone. It is Roman Londinium and the London Maypole.
Somewhere around Walbrook stream, before the arrival of the Romans, the Celts raised a gory shrine to the God of the Thames complete with severed human heads and hands (according to Peter Ackroyd, and he should know). This is the foundational heart of London. A pile of severed human hands, caked with dried blood, and decomposing in the sun, in about 300BC, where the Gherkin now looms next to the Cheesegrater
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Where they sweet potato fries, for extra trendy points ?
Fortunately no - I HATE sweet potato!
You’d get on with my wife !
One evening I made her a sweet potato and chickpea curry. She had the right hump and refused to talk to me for the rest of the evening. I’d also made a dhal dish she called over salty baby food.
I will go to my grave wondering why anyone would want to share that.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Where they sweet potato fries, for extra trendy points ?
Fortunately no - I HATE sweet potato!
You’d get on with my wife !
One evening I made her a sweet potato and chickpea curry. She had the right hump and refused to talk to me for the rest of the evening. I’d also made a dhal dish she called over salty baby food.
I assume you make it every night now to get some peace and quiet...
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There are aspects to this. I'd like to think of myself as fairly (not abnormally) intelligent, fairly open-minded, and fairly open to new ideas. Which is why I'm on PB. I'm also *amazingly* attractive, and can surpass Gimpo (*) in the bedroom department.
I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)
But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.
(*) Of KLF fame.
In some ways I'd love to contribute to politics, now that I actually know stuff & have some knowledge and experience to offer. But I'd hate the effect on my family and, frankly, it's all hypothetical because (a) I can barely find a party to vote for let alone represent and (b) there is NFW any party would take a bolshie woman like me.
I could almost certainly be more useful elsewhere.
When I studied politics at university the students were roughly divided into those who took it seriously and went into politics (they were all weird in some way and some you'd cross the road to avoid so odd were they) and others who were just interested in it intellectually. Whenever I see politicians trying to show how like us they are, I always remember the weird loons from uni days and go ..... hmmm....
Not sure how we get better ones. But on the day that David Amess's murderer is convicted, it is worth remembering that many MPs are, however odd they may be, in it to serve the public.
May the poor man rest in peace and his family find some consolation in justice finally having been done.
Which is why I've always said I quite admire those who stand to be an MP, of whatever party. I wouldn't want myself - or my family - put through that scrutiny. And I don't have anything particularly to hide (and I believe the same for my family).
However, I do think that power can attract both angels and demons, and politics is, in a way, the ultimate power. I can see why politics might appeal to ner-do-wells, as much as it does to the angels.
I'd also add that IME at uni the lawyers were the weird loons. Even worse than architects (fx: shudders at mentioning the word...) And I say that as someone who studied engineering...
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
I am instinctively anti the edgelording of Euston Station into Central London. On the other hand, the magnificent King's Cross development definitely does FEEL like Central London now, yet it is NW1 (like me in Camden)
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
I always like dividing London up into trades - some are a bit out of date now but is it still roughly Bloomsbury - Academia Holborn - Legal City - banking/insurance Soho - Entertainment including Adult Charing Cross Road - Books Leicester Square - Conventional Entertainment - cinemas /nightclubs/casinos etc Brick Lane - Curries Hatton Garden - Jewellers Tottenham Court Road - Still Electrical retail? Oxford Street -mainstream retail Mayfair -posh retail Edgware Road - Arab cuisine Whitehall - government Westminster - politics South Ken - museums
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
I am instinctively anti the edgelording of Euston Station into Central London. On the other hand, the magnificent King's Cross development definitely does FEEL like Central London now, yet it is NW1 (like me in Camden)
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
North of the river, south of the park (Regent’s Park) covers it
@JimmySecUK Azov sources in Mariupol are claiming a Russian UAV dropped a "poisonous substance of unknown origin" onto Ukrainian military personnel and civilians - causing "respiratory failure".
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
I am instinctively anti the edgelording of Euston Station into Central London. On the other hand, the magnificent King's Cross development definitely does FEEL like Central London now, yet it is NW1 (like me in Camden)
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
I always like dividing London up into trades - some are a bit out of date now but is it still roughly Bloomsbury - Academia Holborn - Legal City - banking/insurance Soho - Entertainment including Adult Charing Cross Road - Books Leicester Square - Conventional Entertainment - cinemas /nightclubs/casinos etc Brick Lane - Curries Hatton Garden - Jewellers Tottenham Court Road - Still Electrical retail? Oxford Street -mainstream retail Mayfair -posh retail Edgware Road - Arab cuisine
any more /any no longer?
I'd add:
Shoreditch: food, start-ups, general trendiness Hoxton: ditto Camden: markers, bars, music Borough: market South Bank: theatre and art
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Where they sweet potato fries, for extra trendy points ?
Fortunately no - I HATE sweet potato!
You’d get on with my wife !
One evening I made her a sweet potato and chickpea curry. She had the right hump and refused to talk to me for the rest of the evening. I’d also made a dhal dish she called over salty baby food.
I assume you make it every night now to get some peace and quiet...
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
@JimmySecUK Azov sources in Mariupol are claiming a Russian UAV dropped a "poisonous substance of unknown origin" onto Ukrainian military personnel and civilians - causing "respiratory failure".
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.
I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.
Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.
So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
In light of your last sentence, are you considering standing for parliament?
More seriously, I know you may struggle to believe this, but some people are motivated by things other than financial reward. And that's true of most MPs, and various other professions such as teachers.
As a second rate weirdo I have a position that really causes fear and terror in society, already.
Much more fun than MP.
My point was that previously, it was a part time job, taken for a mix of social climbing, social obligation and genuine public service. Mostly by people who had succeeded in other careers first.
Now, as a profession, it offers indifferent rewards and bizarre career progression (if any). A teacher has better prospects (and money) if they become a head teacher.
"Defenders of #Mariupol just said Russia used chemical weapons on them around an hour ago – soldiers are having difficulty breathing and vestibulo-atactic syndrome. Earlier today Russian puppets in occupied Donbas openly called for the use of chemical weapons against them"
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
I am instinctively anti the edgelording of Euston Station into Central London. On the other hand, the magnificent King's Cross development definitely does FEEL like Central London now, yet it is NW1 (like me in Camden)
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
I always like dividing London up into trades - some are a bit out of date now but is it still roughly Bloomsbury - Academia Holborn - Legal City - banking/insurance Soho - Entertainment including Adult Charing Cross Road - Books Leicester Square - Conventional Entertainment - cinemas /nightclubs/casinos etc Brick Lane - Curries Hatton Garden - Jewellers Tottenham Court Road - Still Electrical retail? Oxford Street -mainstream retail Mayfair -posh retail Edgware Road - Arab cuisine
any more /any no longer?
I'd add:
Shoreditch: food, start-ups, general trendiness Hoxton: ditto Camden: markers, bars, music Borough: market South Bank: theatre and art
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
Noooo, London goes quite far beyond that, and still feels like London
Lots of Barnet is beyond the North Circular. Heck, Wembley Stadium is the wrong side of the North Circular. No one thinks Wembley stadium is in Berkshire or Hertfordshire (or wherever)
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
Sewardstone lies OUTSIDE Greater London, yet it is postcode E4!
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
Yes agreed; I HAVE lived in central London for many years, Bloomsbury, Fitzrovia, Marylebone, but this is Camden
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
In your definition I dont think regents park is central london where I would call it so . I think you need to extend the north boundary to include Marylebone station, Euston station and Kings Cross (all which would be on the border on the wrong side) . I believe 221B Baker Street would also be outside your definition which Holmes may have to take you up on.Agree on Camden though
I am instinctively anti the edgelording of Euston Station into Central London. On the other hand, the magnificent King's Cross development definitely does FEEL like Central London now, yet it is NW1 (like me in Camden)
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
I always like dividing London up into trades - some are a bit out of date now but is it still roughly Bloomsbury - Academia Holborn - Legal City - banking/insurance Soho - Entertainment including Adult Charing Cross Road - Books Leicester Square - Conventional Entertainment - cinemas /nightclubs/casinos etc Brick Lane - Curries Hatton Garden - Jewellers Tottenham Court Road - Still Electrical retail? Oxford Street -mainstream retail Mayfair -posh retail Edgware Road - Arab cuisine
any more /any no longer?
I'd add:
Shoreditch: food, start-ups, general trendiness Hoxton: ditto Camden: markers, bars, music Borough: market South Bank: theatre and art
Great Portland Street - is is stil a bit media creative? Or has the draw of Hoxton moved them on? Fleet Street is sadly no longer the press (isn't Private Eye the only remaining rag?) but I doubt Wapping is either now !
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
Sewardstone lies OUTSIDE Greater London, yet it is postcode E4!
Skye has an Inverness postcode Aberystwyth has a Shrewsbury postcode
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
SKS would have prosecuted the Suffragettes.
Well we know what Bozo would have wanted to do to them.
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
Sewardstone lies OUTSIDE Greater London, yet it is postcode E4!
Skye has an Inverness postcode Aberystwyth has a Shrewsbury postcode
Amazing isnt it. An ex colleague who is emeritus at Aber told me that last week. Must be 70 miles surely?
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
Noooo, London goes quite far beyond that, and still feels like London
Lots of Barnet is beyond the North Circular. Heck, Wembley Stadium is the wrong side of the North Circular. No one thinks Wembley stadium is in Berkshire or Hertfordshire (or wherever)
It's quite simple: everything inside the M25 is London.
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
London consists of 32 boroughs (plus the City, by some, but not all definitions). Ilford is in Zone 4. I can get to Liverpool Street in 20 mins.
Don't tell Romford that! Seriously, "Romford isn't London" still works as a campaign message. Probably not for much longer, but it still works now.
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
Noooo, London goes quite far beyond that, and still feels like London
Lots of Barnet is beyond the North Circular. Heck, Wembley Stadium is the wrong side of the North Circular. No one thinks Wembley stadium is in Berkshire or Hertfordshire (or wherever)
Everywhere within the 32 Boroughs + City is London, we ALL vote for the MAYOR and we ALL vote for the London Assembly.
There is NO administrative entity called "Central London", and there isn't a Parliamentary seat called "Central London" neither!
Comments
Tories fear Sunak tax row will hurt party at local elections
https://twitter.com/fteconomics/status/1513587781838290947
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
Until December we had a trillion Tory poll leads in a row. Since then we have had a zillion Labour poll leads in a row. It is not possible to work out which will be the case when the election is called. ATM the Tories are doing their best to lose, and Labour are having a crack at being sane. The Labour left can, without breaking sweat, lose it for Labour simply by saying what they actually think in public.
If you ask: Which party deserves to win the next election the answer is (obvs), neither.
But if you ask which party is capable of losing the next election, the answer, equally obvs is 'Both'. Hence, more or less my suggestion of what the odds should roughly be.
Support for Le Pen to be President has never so far translated into support for FN (or RN as it is now called) in the National Assembly (ditto for Melenchon who put up a strong performance this time). The "conventional" centre-left and centre-right parties do better in the National Assembly elections but the disastrous performances of Hidalgo and Pecresse will put this to the test.
Fillon got 20% in 2017 and LR got 19% in the subsequent National Assembly election but if Pecresse got 5% this time, what will this mean for LR and its allies?
It's not impossible Macron's group wins another landslide and the FI (Melenchon's lot) become the main opposition.
For millions of workers that few hours inconvenience often means docked pay or even worse a missed shift due to them getting in a replacement. People who are already trying every week to stretch their pay to the end of the week as it is and that so called inconvenience can make the difference between a family missing one or more meals. It frankly disgusts me that a so called lefty would hold the rights of middle class arseholes to glue themselves to roads above a family eating.
Carry on however looking at it from your priveleged life style they are only poor people so don't count when compared to the rights of trustifarians to virtue signal while acheiving bugger all
Whether they like it or not we need oil and gas for the foreseeable future and exploiting our own resources makes sense given that is the case.
I could almost certainly be more useful elsewhere.
When I studied politics at university the students were roughly divided into those who took it seriously and went into politics (they were all weird in some way and some you'd cross the road to avoid so odd were they) and others who were just interested in it intellectually. Whenever I see politicians trying to show how like us they are, I always remember the weird loons from uni days and go ..... hmmm....
Not sure how we get better ones. But on the day that David Amess's murderer is convicted, it is worth remembering that many MPs are, however odd they may be, in it to serve the public.
May the poor man rest in peace and his family find some consolation in justice finally having been done.
It may be "prime central London" to estate agents, but Camden is not central London in my mind. But Zone 1 does not = central London either. Zone 1 goes way south of the river - ugh! And way too far west, down to bloody south Ken which is basically Croydon
Central London in my mind is the City as far East as Tower Bridge, bounded in the north by Farringdon, then the frontier is Euston and Marylebone Road, then it dives south bisecting Hyde Park following the Serpentine, takes in SW1, but no other SWs, and its southern perimeter is a fuzzy line of the South Bank, any more than half a mile south of the river is Here Be Dragons
Urban Core London or Inner London is probably a better description for Camden
Sources close to him said: "He won't be resigning pending an appeal."
They will contest the judges "ruling on bad character evidence."
https://twitter.com/thejonnyreilly/status/1513555317006770176
One evening I made her a sweet potato and chickpea curry. She had the right hump and refused to talk to me for the rest of the evening. I’d also made a dhal dish she called over salty baby food.
But it's good to know that the woman driving at £80,000 car into a couple of people sat on the floor was doing it for The Revoluion. One learns many things on here.
"Central London" is EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, WC1, WC2, a bit of W2, SW1, and a thin linear slice of SE1 where it meets the river
On the other hand, I've met newcomers to London who live in north Tottenham or Earlsfield or Dagenham or right by Heathrow and in their eyes Camden is very definitely "central London", so I guess it is all a case of perspective
The King's Road is so-called because the King used to parade down it, with all his cavalry and pomp, when he was en route to one of his rural palaces - Hampton Court or Windsor or whatever
Kensington is proper posh in places (and surprisingly gritty in others). It is definitely NOT "central London"
Kensington is west London or part of a broader inner London
I'm well versed with these sorts of argument. If you'd been talking to a right winger you'd probably have portrayed the protesters and unemployable soap-dodgers who should really get a job and stop scrounging off the state, right? Well, if not, one doesn't have to look hard to find exactly those types of descriptions for these people.
I'm sorry that your transparent attempt to have your opponent join you in kicking a straw man didn't work. It could have worked, but not today. Still, there are other days.
Perhaps Central London should include all the 1s. Which loops in E1 as well. Wapping, etc, and N1 - Islington
Somewhere around Walbrook stream, before the arrival of the Romans, the Celts raised a gory shrine to the God of the Thames complete with severed human heads and hands (according to Peter Ackroyd, and he should know). This is the foundational heart of London. A pile of severed human hands, caked with dried blood, and decomposing in the sun, in about 300BC, where the Gherkin now looms next to the Cheesegrater
Love London
However, I do think that power can attract both angels and demons, and politics is, in a way, the ultimate power. I can see why politics might appeal to ner-do-wells, as much as it does to the angels.
I'd also add that IME at uni the lawyers were the weird loons. Even worse than architects (fx: shudders at mentioning the word...) And I say that as someone who studied engineering...
Bloomsbury - Academia
Holborn - Legal
City - banking/insurance
Soho - Entertainment including Adult
Charing Cross Road - Books
Leicester Square - Conventional Entertainment - cinemas /nightclubs/casinos etc
Brick Lane - Curries
Hatton Garden - Jewellers
Tottenham Court Road - Still Electrical retail?
Oxford Street -mainstream retail
Mayfair -posh retail
Edgware Road - Arab cuisine
Whitehall - government
Westminster - politics
South Ken - museums
any more /any no longer?
Azov sources in Mariupol are claiming a Russian UAV dropped a "poisonous substance of unknown origin" onto Ukrainian military personnel and civilians - causing "respiratory failure".
https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1513598927282618374
(Theresa May has an ‘h’… the other is a glamour model IIRC)
Don't go Wokey in Wakey.
Any potential candidate who can't say that someone with a knob is a bloke needs putting on the first Azuma back to King's Cross.
Shoreditch: food, start-ups, general trendiness
Hoxton: ditto
Camden: markers, bars, music
Borough: market
South Bank: theatre and art
Putin - Oliver Cromwell -> Oliver Hardy (6 weeks)
Sunak - Heir apparent -> gasping for air (12 weeks)
So coming at it from the other side, what's the furthest out you can get that's uncontroversially London and not "Essex/Kent/Surrey, actually"?
Tentatively, it's about the North/South Circular.
This was predicted earlier today. A chemical attack on Mariupol, especially the steelworks
The Russians were openly discussing it
What a disgusting heap of Nazi squalor is Russia, now. What a repulsive spectacle of a country
Much more fun than MP.
My point was that previously, it was a part time job, taken for a mix of social climbing, social obligation and genuine public service. Mostly by people who had succeeded in other careers first.
Now, as a profession, it offers indifferent rewards and bizarre career progression (if any). A teacher has better prospects (and money) if they become a head teacher.
https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1513600921099542538?s=20&t=7fpxC1vHraP2XtuqYIaX9A
Barnet is London
Windsor is NOT london but Heathrow is
Croydon is London imho
Lots of Barnet is beyond the North Circular. Heck, Wembley Stadium is the wrong side of the North Circular. No one thinks Wembley stadium is in Berkshire or Hertfordshire (or wherever)
Aberystwyth has a Shrewsbury postcode
"Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771
WW3. Brace
I hope the creep gets a decent amount of jail time. His behaviour, as reported, was completely unacceptable.
There is NO administrative entity called "Central London", and there isn't a Parliamentary seat called "Central London" neither!