A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility – politicalbetting.com
This afternoon’s conviction of the man elected at GE2019 as the Tory MP for Wakefield opens the possibility of there being a parliamentary by-election in the seat .
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
Indeed. Imagine having to raise a safeguarding issue with a convicted nonce.
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
Doesn't look as though one has been fixed.
If this article is correct, if the sentence is more than a year the seat is vacated notwithstanding any appeals:
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
The 1 year rule is in Representation of the People Act 1981, brought in by The Blessed Maggie in response to Bobby "Would you like a chicken sandwich?" Sands
"Disqualification of certain offenders for membership of the House of Commons.
A person found guilty of one or more offences (whether before or after the passing of this Act and whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere), and sentenced or ordered to be imprisoned or detained indefinitely or for more than one year, shall be disqualified for membership of the House of Commons while detained anywhere in the British Islands or the Republic of Ireland in pursuance of the sentence or order or while unlawfully at large at a time when he would otherwise be so detained."
which seems to me to bite immediately unless you are released on bail pending appeal (dunno if that happens).
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
She really was a fool, that one. Her confused banging on about vaccines and science and better farming practices on bovine TB when even a cursory reading of the literature showed the opposite of what she claimed it did just showed a politician who was out of her depth.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
Did you jumble that up and really mean to say that they are difficult, large, bi humans, above doing an average job?
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
By definition all MPs are a bit weird as normal people are not interested in the political processes, and even fewer are atypical enough to jump through party hoops in order to be selected as candidates. The parachuted in Spads and former officials are in one way more likely to be normal, since they are above dealing with the little people of party activists.
The list of MPs actually imprisoned seems low, but of course most don't get that far now.
A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
I think it's more that Creagh herself, an ex-Islington councillor, was accused of calling all Brexit voters thick and racist.
That wasn't quite true. She said the vote had emboldened people who were thick and racist.
But it was something of a distinction without a difference.
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
Did you jumble that up and really mean to say that they are difficult, large, bi humans, above doing an average job?
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
Just want to point out ref Mike's headline, and Cyclefree et. al. may clarify this, but this will be a sentence commensurate with sexual assault of a child. Not just 'a teenager'. The victim was under 16 so a child.
I'll be surprised if this isn't a custodial sentence > a year. Not helped by the fact that he didn't plead guilty and took it to trial.
Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.
Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?
Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17th May.
The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?
There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.
How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.
And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.
The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.
"Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There are aspects to this. I'd like to think of myself as fairly (not abnormally) intelligent, fairly open-minded, and fairly open to new ideas. Which is why I'm on PB. I'm also *amazingly* attractive, and can surpass Gimpo (*) in the bedroom department.
I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)
But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
Both those things are true, if that is at all relevant.
A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
Wasn't there a TV proggie a decade or so ago that made MPs live on benefits for a week?
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
Mm, interesting concept. Though the MPs might not be as keen on that as on their other special treatment.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
Pulling their punches, in fact they are "stupid, uneducated, racist AND wrong." But bad thing to say in an election year, sure
Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.
Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?
Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17h May.
The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?
There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.
How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.
And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.
The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.
"Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
Then there's Rob Roberts, who should have faced a recall but because of a procedural anomaly got off scot free
I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
What with the Charlie Elphicke disgrace, I'm surprised Tory MPs are still doing this.
Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
Pulling their punches, in fact they are "stupid, uneducated, racist AND wrong." But bad thing to say in an election year, sure
It's fine so long as you say it after the election, not before.
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.
I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.
Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
If you add in the 2019 Brexit Party vote to the Conservative tally it is a very comfortable circa 7,000 win for the Conservatives.
Labour after decades of Old Labour dereliction of duty In West Yorkshire are absolutely detested outside inner Leeds and inner Bradford.
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.
Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?
Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17h May.
The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?
There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.
How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.
And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.
The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.
"Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
Then there's Rob Roberts, who should have faced a recall but because of a procedural anomaly got off scot free
I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
He was never - afaics - reported to, or investigated by, the police.
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.
I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.
Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.
So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
There is that, but there's also the modern media, which means stories can get out quicker. Look at the way Cyril Smith's story was hidden for decades. Or Clement Freud.
Sadly, both those stories gained prominence after their deaths. Perhaps modern communications highlights wrongdoing much earlier, making it harder to hide evil until after their deaths.
But basically: politics is power. People attracted to power will gravitate towards it. Including those who want power in a bad way, e.g. over individuals. Also, in the old days parties would try to protect wrongdoers. As we have seen recently, that becomes harder.
Looking at the list of recall petitions, given how easily the threshold was passed for Onasanya and Christopher Davies (with the latter leading to a big swing and a loss for the defending party, stupid enough to let the recalled MP stand, and the former very nearly being lost), I am a little surprised Ian Paisley Jrs recall did't reach the threshold. Yes his was a suspension not a conviction but still.
Shows just how arrogant and stupid Owen Paterson was (and presumably still is), given there was no certainty he would be recalled, and his attempts to deflect his guilt through sympathy for the personal tragedy he faced would probably have worked, especially as his offence was the sort of thing most people don't care about.
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There are 650 MPs in the House of Commons, which is roughly the same number of pupils at my former secondary school. Thinking back, I think the school had a lot more felons and weirdos than the house, so maybe it's not so bad after all.
Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.
Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?
Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17h May.
The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?
There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.
How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.
And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.
The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.
"Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
Then there's Rob Roberts, who should have faced a recall but because of a procedural anomaly got off scot free
I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
He was never - afaics - reported to, or investigated by, the police.
I was commenting on the 'football team of MPs currently suspended' and the dividing line between being a goner or not. He would have probably been a goner, but for being saved on a technicality.
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
Mm, interesting concept. Though the MPs might not be as keen on that as on their other special treatment.
Fast, efficient justice is a common cry from legislators. Funnily enough when they are facing accusations regarding their conduct their standard play is to still make that cry, whilst doing everything in their power to delay and obstruct the process, so they can complain about the lack of it.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
Of course there is always the possibilty that since Brexit, said Leavers have realised that they are in fact stupid, uneducated.....
Sorry Mark. Only kidding.
My guess is that SKS will be advised to start with a clean sheet, and he'll listen to that advice.
What with the Charlie Elphicke disgrace, I'm surprised Tory MPs are still doing this.
Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.
What with the Charlie Elphicke disgrace, I'm surprised Tory MPs are still doing this.
Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.
A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility
The understatement is strong in this one.
Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
No, the judge said "at a later date".
As I understand it, the recall kicks in if he gets a sentence of more than a year; otherwise a petition can be mounted - either possibility then takes effect without waiting for an appeal. If he successfully appeals but someone else has won in the meantime, the result is not overturned, though of course he could stand again in that case.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
Thing is these cranks told the govt in early February this was coming. The govt have done little to prepare for it. As loathsome as these protesters are, and we will need oil for many years to come, the govt are at fault here.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
Quality whataboutery. The eco loons have been doing this since 1st April. Hardly compares to shutting a few roads for a couple of hours.
The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
Wasn't there a TV proggie a decade or so ago that made MPs live on benefits for a week?
I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.
I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.
Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.
So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
In light of your last sentence, are you considering standing for parliament?
More seriously, I know you may struggle to believe this, but some people are motivated by things other than financial reward. And that's true of most MPs, and various other professions such as teachers.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
Surely, given what they have convicted him for, they need to do the former. Lance the boil.
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
The expectations management has already started, my friend.
Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).
I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
The expectations management has already started, my friend.
Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).
I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
You make a man feel sorry for the poor bookies, Stodgie.
Have we noted that both the traditional French main parties - the Socialists and the Republicans (Pecresse), as well as the Greens - all have financial challenges as they will not be getting central funding for their campaigns as they did not make a 5% threshold in the first round of the Presidential Election.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
What type of ordinary people live in central London?
Leon
Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
"We need to think about a Le Pen presidency France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
Best way is these protestors claim to have public support and to represent the public will.....just decriminalise the public from dealing with the protestors. Worked well for the guy that glued himself to a train I suspect he won't be quite so keen to do it again after the general public explained his folly to him.
Looking at the list of recall petitions, given how easily the threshold was passed for Onasanya and Christopher Davies (with the latter leading to a big swing and a loss for the defending party, stupid enough to let the recalled MP stand, and the former very nearly being lost), I am a little surprised Ian Paisley Jrs recall did't reach the threshold. Yes his was a suspension not a conviction but still.
Shows just how arrogant and stupid Owen Paterson was (and presumably still is), given there was no certainty he would be recalled, and his attempts to deflect his guilt through sympathy for the personal tragedy he faced would probably have worked, especially as his offence was the sort of thing most people don't care about.
Re: Ian Paisley Jr failed recall, surprise is NOT novel when one is acquainted-confronted with-by vagaries of politics in Northern Ireland in general, North Antrim in particular.
BTW (also FYI) once hitch-hiked & bused my way across that part of the world. Highly recommend. My favorite part was skirting the cliff edge above Giant's Causeway after touring Bushmills distillery and sampling the (strong) waters . . .
"We need to think about a Le Pen presidency France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
The expectations management has already started, my friend.
Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).
I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
You make a man feel sorry for the poor bookies, Stodgie.
Well done.
Nice to see Newmarket back tomorrow, my friend.
I quite like TACARIB BAY in the Free Handicap but this is always a meeting to watch the races and take note of those shaping like future winners.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
Yes, and more broadly the right to protest is rightly valued in a democracy. And we all know that if a protest or demonstration doesn't inconvenience people or make a lot of noise, it won't get any publicity in the media.
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
Makes no difference how they win it (or not). The next GE is wide open between a Tory (or Tory led) government (about 45%), Labour led government (about 45%) and Labour outright government (5-10%).
Until December we had a trillion Tory poll leads in a row. Since then we have had a zillion Labour poll leads in a row. It is not possible to work out which will be the case when the election is called. ATM the Tories are doing their best to lose, and Labour are having a crack at being sane. The Labour left can, without breaking sweat, lose it for Labour simply by saying what they actually think in public.
If you ask: Which party deserves to win the next election the answer is (obvs), neither.
But if you ask which party is capable of losing the next election, the answer, equally obvs is 'Both'. Hence, more or less my suggestion of what the odds should roughly be.
New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
Excellent move by Labour.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.
Comments
The understatement is strong in this one.
tlg86 puts it bluntly, but it has to be a must win for Labour. That's said about a lot of by-elections, falsely, but this one is no out there chance.
He could then be replaced with someone with a pulse.
If this article is correct, if the sentence is more than a year the seat is vacated notwithstanding any appeals:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-61031276
"In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
"Disqualification of certain offenders for membership of the House of Commons.
A person found guilty of one or more offences (whether before or after the passing of this Act and whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere), and sentenced or ordered to be imprisoned or detained indefinitely or for more than one year, shall be disqualified for membership of the House of Commons while detained anywhere in the British Islands or the Republic of Ireland in pursuance of the sentence or order or while unlawfully at large at a time when he would otherwise be so detained."
which seems to me to bite immediately unless you are released on bail pending appeal (dunno if that happens).
The list of MPs actually imprisoned seems low, but of course most don't get that far now.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04594/SN04594.pdf
Not going to see this very often
David Weitzmann
Stoke Newington
12 months (quashed)
Unlawful supply of toilet preparations (lipstick)
In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g
It's Coming Home
70 years of hurt etc
That wasn't quite true. She said the vote had emboldened people who were thick and racist.
But it was something of a distinction without a difference.
I'll be surprised if this isn't a custodial sentence > a year. Not helped by the fact that he didn't plead guilty and took it to trial.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences
The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?
There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.
How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.
And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.
The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.
"Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)
But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.
(*) Of KLF fame.
Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.
May be wrong. Just my take.
I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/11/tory-mp-imran-ahmad-khan-found-guilty-sexually-assaulting-15/
I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.
Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.
So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
Labour after decades of Old Labour dereliction of duty In West Yorkshire are absolutely detested outside inner Leeds and inner Bradford.
I have it as an easy Tory hold.
When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
Oh, for him?
Sadly, both those stories gained prominence after their deaths. Perhaps modern communications highlights wrongdoing much earlier, making it harder to hide evil until after their deaths.
But basically: politics is power. People attracted to power will gravitate towards it. Including those who want power in a bad way, e.g. over individuals. Also, in the old days parties would try to protect wrongdoers. As we have seen recently, that becomes harder.
Shows just how arrogant and stupid Owen Paterson was (and presumably still is), given there was no certainty he would be recalled, and his attempts to deflect his guilt through sympathy for the personal tragedy he faced would probably have worked, especially as his offence was the sort of thing most people don't care about.
Sorry Mark. Only kidding.
My guess is that SKS will be advised to start with a clean sheet, and he'll listen to that advice.
As I understand it, the recall kicks in if he gets a sentence of more than a year; otherwise a petition can be mounted - either possibility then takes effect without waiting for an appeal. If he successfully appeals but someone else has won in the meantime, the result is not overturned, though of course he could stand again in that case.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-corbyn-left_uk_6222078ee4b02186be203a49
More seriously, I know you may struggle to believe this, but some people are motivated by things other than financial reward. And that's true of most MPs, and various other professions such as teachers.
From the guardian (where else)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/01/down-to-earth-just-stop-oil-protest
What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).
I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
Well done.
And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil
Gideon Rachman" [via google search]
https://www.ft.com/content/f1c99456-84b1-4193-b058-f72d0f738849
BTW (also FYI) once hitch-hiked & bused my way across that part of the world. Highly recommend. My favorite part was skirting the cliff edge above Giant's Causeway after touring Bushmills distillery and sampling the (strong) waters . . .
10 Apr Redfield & Wilton Strategies N/A GB 2,000
Con 34%
Lab 42%
LibDem 8%
SNP 4%
Green 5%
Reform 4%
Labour lead 8%
"This week Boris is master of all he surveys" Leon
I quite like TACARIB BAY in the Free Handicap but this is always a meeting to watch the races and take note of those shaping like future winners.
Tories fear Sunak tax row will hurt party at local elections
https://twitter.com/fteconomics/status/1513587781838290947
This is nothing to do with the eco/oil protests. I was responding to a comment earlier that any protest that interferes with 'ordinary people' going about their lawful business was ipso facto not peaceful, and by implication should be illegal. That's dangerous nonsense, though the current wretched government is trying to make protest harder.
Until December we had a trillion Tory poll leads in a row. Since then we have had a zillion Labour poll leads in a row. It is not possible to work out which will be the case when the election is called. ATM the Tories are doing their best to lose, and Labour are having a crack at being sane. The Labour left can, without breaking sweat, lose it for Labour simply by saying what they actually think in public.
If you ask: Which party deserves to win the next election the answer is (obvs), neither.
But if you ask which party is capable of losing the next election, the answer, equally obvs is 'Both'. Hence, more or less my suggestion of what the odds should roughly be.