Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited April 17 in General
imageA Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility – politicalbetting.com

This afternoon’s conviction of the man elected at GE2019 as the Tory MP for Wakefield opens the possibility of there being a parliamentary by-election in the seat .

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394
    First. If Labour can’t gain this seat in a by election, then they really are shit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    tlg86 said:

    First. If Labour can’t gain this seat in a by election, then they really are shit.

    Not as much shit as in the shit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    edited April 11
    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    tlg86 puts it bluntly, but it has to be a must win for Labour. That's said about a lot of by-elections, falsely, but this one is no out there chance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    Not been a good few days for politicians with Imran and Khan in their names.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    Perhaps the best thing is actually a Labour loss here, which hastens a Keir ouster.

    He could then be replaced with someone with a pulse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
    Indeed. Imagine having to raise a safeguarding issue with a convicted nonce.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
    Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,958
    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
    But yes to your points.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    Labour will win with a majority between 8 and 12%
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
    Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
    Doesn't look as though one has been fixed.

    If this article is correct, if the sentence is more than a year the seat is vacated notwithstanding any appeals:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-61031276
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    The 1 year rule is in Representation of the People Act 1981, brought in by The Blessed Maggie in response to Bobby "Would you like a chicken sandwich?" Sands

    "Disqualification of certain offenders for membership of the House of Commons.

    A person found guilty of one or more offences (whether before or after the passing of this Act and whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere), and sentenced or ordered to be imprisoned or detained indefinitely or for more than one year, shall be disqualified for membership of the House of Commons while detained anywhere in the British Islands or the Republic of Ireland in pursuance of the sentence or order or while unlawfully at large at a time when he would otherwise be so detained."

    which seems to me to bite immediately unless you are released on bail pending appeal (dunno if that happens).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    She really was a fool, that one. Her confused banging on about vaccines and science and better farming practices on bovine TB when even a cursory reading of the literature showed the opposite of what she claimed it did just showed a politician who was out of her depth.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,417
    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    Did you jumble that up and really mean to say that they are difficult, large, bi humans, above doing an average job?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    By definition all MPs are a bit weird as normal people are not interested in the political processes, and even fewer are atypical enough to jump through party hoops in order to be selected as candidates. The parachuted in Spads and former officials are in one way more likely to be normal, since they are above dealing with the little people of party activists.

    The list of MPs actually imprisoned seems low, but of course most don't get that far now.

    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04594/SN04594.pdf

    Not going to see this very often

    David Weitzmann
    Stoke Newington
    12 months (quashed)
    Unlawful supply of toilet preparations (lipstick)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.

    In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.

    All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.

    In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.

    All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g

    Hope the top man gets the sack for that failure.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983

    A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.

    In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.

    All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g

    Stalin would approve.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.

    In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.

    All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g

    Stalinism's Coming Home
    It's Coming Home

    70 years of hurt etc
  • Ed Balls?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
    I think it's more that Creagh herself, an ex-Islington councillor, was accused of calling all Brexit voters thick and racist.

    That wasn't quite true. She said the vote had emboldened people who were thick and racist.

    But it was something of a distinction without a difference.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    Did you jumble that up and really mean to say that they are difficult, large, bi humans, above doing an average job?
    :lol:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
    My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
  • CoL is going to be really biting when this occurs, should be an easy Labour gain
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    Just want to point out ref Mike's headline, and Cyclefree et. al. may clarify this, but this will be a sentence commensurate with sexual assault of a child. Not just 'a teenager'. The victim was under 16 so a child.

    I'll be surprised if this isn't a custodial sentence > a year. Not helped by the fact that he didn't plead guilty and took it to trial.

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,371
    edited April 11

    BREAKING 🚨

    Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.

    Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?

    Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17th May.

    The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?

    There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.

    How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.

    And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.

    The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.

    "Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749
    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There are aspects to this. I'd like to think of myself as fairly (not abnormally) intelligent, fairly open-minded, and fairly open to new ideas. Which is why I'm on PB. ;) I'm also *amazingly* attractive, and can surpass Gimpo (*) in the bedroom department.

    I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)

    But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.

    (*) Of KLF fame.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
    My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
    Both those things are true, if that is at all relevant.
  • New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,371
    kle4 said:

    A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.

    In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.

    All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g

    Hope the top man gets the sack for that failure.
    This is the concrete boots, the sack and the ocean?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
    My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
    Wasn't there a TV proggie a decade or so ago that made MPs live on benefits for a week?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
    Mm, interesting concept. Though the MPs might not be as keen on that as on their other special treatment.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    These activists are shits. If anything, they are increasing emissions by causing people to drive around for half an hour to find fuel...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    edited April 11

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    My take on the situation in the Left is that although they're mega pissed off with Starmer they hate Boris even more.

    They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.

    May be wrong. Just my take.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    Pulling their punches, in fact they are "stupid, uneducated, racist AND wrong." But bad thing to say in an election year, sure
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    MattW said:

    BREAKING 🚨

    Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.

    Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?

    Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17h May.

    The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?

    There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.

    How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.

    And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.

    The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.

    "Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
    Then there's Rob Roberts, who should have faced a recall but because of a procedural anomaly got off scot free

    I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    A “Stalinist” mass purge of Russian secret intelligence is under way after more than 100 agents were removed from their jobs and the head of the department responsible for Ukraine was sent to prison.

    In a sign of President Putin’s fury over the failures of the invasion, about 150 Federal Security Bureau (FSB) officers have been dismissed, including some who have been arrested.

    All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g

    Hope the top man gets the sack for that failure.
    This is the concrete boots, the sack and the ocean?
    I think he should face a punishment commensurate with his leadership style, yes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    What with the Charlie Elphicke disgrace, I'm surprised Tory MPs are still doing this.

    Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/11/tory-mp-imran-ahmad-khan-found-guilty-sexually-assaulting-15/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    IshmaelZ said:

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    Pulling their punches, in fact they are "stupid, uneducated, racist AND wrong." But bad thing to say in an election year, sure
    It's fine so long as you say it after the election, not before.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,015
    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.

    I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.

    Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.

    So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    If you add in the 2019 Brexit Party vote to the Conservative tally it is a very comfortable circa 7,000 win for the Conservatives.

    Labour after decades of Old Labour dereliction of duty In West Yorkshire are absolutely detested outside inner Leeds and inner Bradford.

    I have it as an easy Tory hold.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    Heathener said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    My take on the situation in the Left is that although they're mega pissed off with Starmer they hate Boris more.

    They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.

    May be wrong. Just my take.
    I think @bigjohnowls and @TheJezziah rather confound that notion.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,371

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
    Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
    Mine is set for 2 weeks from now.

    Oh, for him?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    Ed Balls?

    IshmaelZ
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,371
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    BREAKING 🚨

    Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.

    Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?

    Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17h May.

    The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?

    There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.

    How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.

    And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.

    The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.

    "Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
    Then there's Rob Roberts, who should have faced a recall but because of a procedural anomaly got off scot free

    I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
    He was never - afaics - reported to, or investigated by, the police.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749



    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.

    I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.

    Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.

    So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
    There is that, but there's also the modern media, which means stories can get out quicker. Look at the way Cyril Smith's story was hidden for decades. Or Clement Freud.

    Sadly, both those stories gained prominence after their deaths. Perhaps modern communications highlights wrongdoing much earlier, making it harder to hide evil until after their deaths.

    But basically: politics is power. People attracted to power will gravitate towards it. Including those who want power in a bad way, e.g. over individuals. Also, in the old days parties would try to protect wrongdoers. As we have seen recently, that becomes harder.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    Looking at the list of recall petitions, given how easily the threshold was passed for Onasanya and Christopher Davies (with the latter leading to a big swing and a loss for the defending party, stupid enough to let the recalled MP stand, and the former very nearly being lost), I am a little surprised Ian Paisley Jrs recall did't reach the threshold. Yes his was a suspension not a conviction but still.

    Shows just how arrogant and stupid Owen Paterson was (and presumably still is), given there was no certainty he would be recalled, and his attempts to deflect his guilt through sympathy for the personal tragedy he faced would probably have worked, especially as his offence was the sort of thing most people don't care about.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    Not really.
    You might not like people having their journeys disrupted, but that's not really the same as it not being peaceful.
    I mean, blocking a road is not violence.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There are 650 MPs in the House of Commons, which is roughly the same number of pupils at my former secondary school. Thinking back, I think the school had a lot more felons and weirdos than the house, so maybe it's not so bad after all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    BREAKING 🚨

    Imran Ahmad Khan MP (Wakefield) has been found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy in 2008.

    Will he resign or will there be a petition like in Peterborough?

    Don't forget that there is still a probable By-election in Leicester East coming down the track. Claudia Webbe's Appeal hearing is 17h May.

    The normal playbook so far seems to be don't resign so you keep the benefits as long as possible, doesn't it, and appeal the sentence?

    There is also the matter that he gets auto-defenestrated if the prison sentence is more than 12 months, I think.

    How many cases do we have of ultimate defenestration? Fiona wotsit, Chris Davies. And Claudia Webbe who is currently in play, as she has appealed her conviction.

    And there's nearly a football team of MPs currently suspended from their Party Whip, afaics, for various less serious reasons.

    The dividing line seems to be "found guilty by a court". So I'd say that Imran Khan will be a goner by one means or another.

    "Accused of" or "Subject to a Parliamentary Investigation" people don't seem to get unseated.
    Then there's Rob Roberts, who should have faced a recall but because of a procedural anomaly got off scot free

    I don't know if they closed that loophole yet or not, but given Rees-Mogg was the one responding, and his record on trying to prevent MPs of his own side being punished, I doubt it.
    He was never - afaics - reported to, or investigated by, the police.
    I was commenting on the 'football team of MPs currently suspended' and the dividing line between being a goner or not. He would have probably been a goner, but for being saved on a technicality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    Expedited appeals process for MPs please. I know they've made it so justice takes an increasingly long time to do, and that is will be poorly done, but I'm ok with them getting special treatment so that constituents don't have to spend a long time seeking help from someone who may be a convicted criminal.
    Mm, interesting concept. Though the MPs might not be as keen on that as on their other special treatment.
    Fast, efficient justice is a common cry from legislators. Funnily enough when they are facing accusations regarding their conduct their standard play is to still make that cry, whilst doing everything in their power to delay and obstruct the process, so they can complain about the lack of it.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,627
    Just lumped on Macron - buying money imo. Best interest rate around for a short term 2 week deposit!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    edited April 11

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    Of course there is always the possibilty that since Brexit, said Leavers have realised that they are in fact stupid, uneducated.....

    Sorry Mark. Only kidding. ;)

    My guess is that SKS will be advised to start with a clean sheet, and he'll listen to that advice.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 4,627

    What with the Charlie Elphicke disgrace, I'm surprised Tory MPs are still doing this.

    Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/11/tory-mp-imran-ahmad-khan-found-guilty-sexually-assaulting-15/

    Dont you have to attend court if summoned?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    He's been expelled by the Tory Party.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785
    Heathener said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    My take on the situation in the Left is that although they're mega pissed off with Starmer they hate Boris even more.

    They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.

    May be wrong. Just my take.
    You have that the wrong way around. The eye swivelling Corbynites are a bit pissed off with Boris Johnson but they hate Starmer even more.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739

    What with the Charlie Elphicke disgrace, I'm surprised Tory MPs are still doing this.

    Tory MPs Crispin Blunt and Sir Peter Bottomley, the Father of the Commons, attended court on Monday, while a third, Adam Holloway, earlier provided a character statement used as part of Khan's defence case.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/11/tory-mp-imran-ahmad-khan-found-guilty-sexually-assaulting-15/

    Dont you have to attend court if summoned?
    I think the first two were there willingly, I don't think they were called to give evidence.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731
    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    See also ER. And that Brexit idiot.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,375

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility

    The understatement is strong in this one.

    Well there could be a lengthy appellate process.
    If I understand the charges correctly, this is something that could get him up to 14 years. In that event, doesn't he go to prison straight away and appeal from there?
    Has anyone seen an actual sentencing date.
    No, the judge said "at a later date".

    As I understand it, the recall kicks in if he gets a sentence of more than a year; otherwise a petition can be mounted - either possibility then takes effect without waiting for an appeal. If he successfully appeals but someone else has won in the meantime, the result is not overturned, though of course he could stand again in that case.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    See also ER. And that Brexit idiot.
    Show some respect. His title is "The Prime Minister".
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,246
    edited April 11

    Heathener said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    My take on the situation in the Left is that although they're mega pissed off with Starmer they hate Boris even more.

    They will hold their noses and wait for Labour to regain power. Then strike. Or try to.

    May be wrong. Just my take.
    You have that the wrong way around. The eye swivelling Corbynites are a bit pissed off with Boris Johnson but they hate Starmer even more.
    But the Corbynites are an endangered species and will soon be extinct. And the more they get upset the better it is for Starmer.


  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,780
    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    edited April 11
    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    Thing is these cranks told the govt in early February this was coming. The govt have done little to prepare for it. As loathsome as these protesters are, and we will need oil for many years to come, the govt are at fault here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731
    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    See also ER. And that Brexit idiot.
    Show some respect. His title is "The Prime Minister".
    Ha. But you know who I meant.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    Quality whataboutery. The eco loons have been doing this since 1st April. Hardly compares to shutting a few roads for a couple of hours.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,315

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    There was a good piece on the current Labour party last month in the Huffpost:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-corbyn-left_uk_6222078ee4b02186be203a49

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,884

    The only way Labour don't win this by-election is if Mary Creagh is Labour's candidate.

    "In an interview with Channel 4 News, Ahmad Khan attributed his success during the election to "Islington Remainers" who had branded Leave voters "stupid, uneducated, racist or wrong"."

    to be fair to him (why?), there were reports in the 2019 election of Labour people from London going to the 'dark places' (i.e. up north) and telling them how to vote. Kind-of like the Guardian's brilliant letter-writing scheme in the 2004 US election.
    My favourite of that genre was a Guardian hack who tried living on a London council estate in the spirit of Sanders of The River. Full of stuff about how the poor don’t wash every day and smoking is authentically underclass - seriously.
    Wasn't there a TV proggie a decade or so ago that made MPs live on benefits for a week?
    Matthew Parris did it once, years ago.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,780



    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There have always been clowns, loons and the gibbering among them, but yes, it does seem worse.

    I think it is the change to professional politics - once upon a time, you got to a certain level of success in normal life, and then became an MP.

    Now it is a profession that pays fairly poorly for a London job for a graduate, though the pension arrangements are very nice. Add in the stupid pie throwing - if you are really talented and in London, there are jobs where you could be on £250k without the whole political bullshit.

    So politics gets the second rate and the weirdos.
    In light of your last sentence, are you considering standing for parliament?

    More seriously, I know you may struggle to believe this, but some people are motivated by things other than financial reward. And that's true of most MPs, and various other professions such as teachers.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.

    From the guardian (where else)

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/01/down-to-earth-just-stop-oil-protest
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,780
    edited April 11

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    edited April 11
    Andy_JS said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
    12 months ago labour would be actively supporting the eco loons. Corbyn labour subcontracted environmental policy to Exctinction Rebellion.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    HYUFD said:

    Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government

    They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.

    What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353

    HYUFD said:

    Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government

    They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.

    What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
    Surely, given what they have convicted him for, they need to do the former. Lance the boil.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,491

    HYUFD said:

    Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government

    They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.

    What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
    The expectations management has already started, my friend.

    Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).

    I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,430

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    What type of ordinary people live in central London?

    ;)
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    What type of ordinary people live in central London?

    ;)
    Leon
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    Andy_JS said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Good policy decision from Labour. Not sure how it will go down with their core supporters in places like Islington and Brighton though.
    Is it? The fact that a protest inconveniences people doesn’t make it unlawful or wrong, and you’d think the party likely to have to support unions in strike action over pay soon would watch its step here.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    Redfield und Wilton, the new Gold Standard :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    edited April 11
    Farooq said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    What type of ordinary people live in central London?

    ;)
    Leon
    I had lunch at @Leon's the other day near Canary Wharf - Vegan Love Burger and Baked Fries :)
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 10,569
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government

    They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.

    What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
    The expectations management has already started, my friend.

    Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).

    I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
    You make a man feel sorry for the poor bookies, Stodgie.

    Well done.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    See also ER. And that Brexit idiot.
    Show some respect. His title is "The Prime Minister".
    Ha. But you know who I meant.
    The appropriately-named Steve Bray, yes...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,371
    Have we noted that both the traditional French main parties - the Socialists and the Republicans (Pecresse), as well as the Greens - all have financial challenges as they will not be getting central funding for their campaigns as they did not make a 5% threshold in the first round of the Presidential Election.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,255
    edited April 11
    Farooq said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    What type of ordinary people live in central London?

    ;)
    Leon
    Your definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.

    And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,315
    "We need to think about a Le Pen presidency
    France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil
    Gideon Rachman" [via google search]

    https://www.ft.com/content/f1c99456-84b1-4193-b058-f72d0f738849
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,967
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Oh it is far more than that. They want to replicate the fuel protests of the early 2000s to force the govt to yield to their demands.

    From the guardian (where else)

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/01/down-to-earth-just-stop-oil-protest
    Best way is these protestors claim to have public support and to represent the public will.....just decriminalise the public from dealing with the protestors. Worked well for the guy that glued himself to a train I suspect he won't be quite so keen to do it again after the general public explained his folly to him.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    kle4 said:

    Looking at the list of recall petitions, given how easily the threshold was passed for Onasanya and Christopher Davies (with the latter leading to a big swing and a loss for the defending party, stupid enough to let the recalled MP stand, and the former very nearly being lost), I am a little surprised Ian Paisley Jrs recall did't reach the threshold. Yes his was a suspension not a conviction but still.

    Shows just how arrogant and stupid Owen Paterson was (and presumably still is), given there was no certainty he would be recalled, and his attempts to deflect his guilt through sympathy for the personal tragedy he faced would probably have worked, especially as his offence was the sort of thing most people don't care about.

    Re: Ian Paisley Jr failed recall, surprise is NOT novel when one is acquainted-confronted with-by vagaries of politics in Northern Ireland in general, North Antrim in particular.

    BTW (also FYI) once hitch-hiked & bused my way across that part of the world. Highly recommend. My favorite part was skirting the cliff edge above Giant's Causeway after touring Bushmills distillery and sampling the (strong) waters . . .

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371

    Redfield und Wilton, the new Gold Standard :lol:

    Wow just saw this. Today's poll with a Labour lead of 8%

    10 Apr Redfield & Wilton Strategies N/A GB 2,000

    Con 34%
    Lab 42%
    LibDem 8%
    SNP 4%
    Green 5%
    Reform 4%

    Labour lead 8%

    "This week Boris is master of all he surveys" Leon
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,561
    Andy_JS said:

    "We need to think about a Le Pen presidency
    France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil
    Gideon Rachman" [via google search]

    https://www.ft.com/content/f1c99456-84b1-4193-b058-f72d0f738849

    Clickbait. There has only ever been one winner of this election. Any statement to the contrary is to drive likes and/or traffic.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,449
    eek said:

    Farooq said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    New: Labour has called for an injunction to end the 'Just Stop Oil' protests, positioning itself firmly on the side of motorists facing disruption.

    Interesting to see how party's left-wing and green backers react to Starmer urging clamp down on activists

    Excellent move by Labour.

    When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    So you'd ban all demonstrations and marches from central London, presumably, as road closures and other disruptions from these often prevent 'ordinary' people going about their lawful business?
    There’s a clear difference between protests arranged in concert with the authorities that allow people to plan their activity and deliberately antagonistic protest designed to cause anger. You can argue that protest should upset, bu5 there is a limit. Heartlessly stopping people visiting dying relatives crosses the line.
    Not relevant to my comment, which was in response to this sentence: When a protest interferes with ordinary people going about their lawful business, it stops being "peaceful".
    What type of ordinary people live in central London?

    ;)
    Leon
    You definition of central London is wider than mine - which would be inside Zone 1.

    And Leon doesn't live inside zone 1 - unless he's moved he lives in zone 2.
    I really don't know London at all. I live closer to Torshavn.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,491

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Wakefield is 38th on the Labour target list, if there is a by election they really need to win it to suggest they are on course for government

    They'd need to win it pretty big, Hyufd. Might depend when it actually takes place though.

    What's the Tory playbook on this? Do they take the hit quickly and try to move on before the GE, or do they play it long and encourage the culprit to exhaust the appeals process, dragging it out as long as possible?
    The expectations management has already started, my friend.

    Apparently it's either going to be an easy Conservative hold or a 12-point Labour win (which covers a pretty large area).

    I'm still in shock having drawn on SANTINI on Saturday at 66s.
    You make a man feel sorry for the poor bookies, Stodgie.

    Well done.
    Nice to see Newmarket back tomorrow, my friend.

    I quite like TACARIB BAY in the Free Handicap but this is always a meeting to watch the races and take note of those shaping like future winners.
This discussion has been closed.