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Today’s budget could be the trigger for a Tory poll lead – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I think my question would be, 'what will be this year's pasty tax?' Because there will be one.

    I'm thinking the odds are it will be this silly loan on energy bills, if that's still going ahead at all.

    Bound to be a generous-looking gimmick that falls apart under scrutiny.

    He's not got that much room to play with. TEN BILLION POUNDS sounds like a lot, but it's about £150 per person across the country, which will barely touch the sides of the problem. £3 a week.

    And the fiscal outlook for next year (which ideally will be election runup) looks worse than expected.

    And whilst not much of this is Rishi's fault, he will inevitably cop the blame.
    He will obviously cut duty, as I have pointed out before the net cost is practically zero given the increased VAT take.
    I think (hope) he does something about those on benefits.
    The loan gimick on fuel bills needs to be dropped.
    There will presumably be yet more money for the NHS focused on backlogs.
    Possible wild card would be the suspension of VAT on domestic fuel, benefit of Brexit etc
    Isn't cutting the tax on fuel little better than burning the cash?

    Given the price is set by a balance between demand and supply, the cut in the duty rate will just get eaten up by price rises as they increase further to reach the equilibrium point.
    It shows the government is doing what it can to address the cost of living crisis. The problem would be when would ever be a good time to bring it back, like the fuel duty escalator, which has been in abeyance since 2010. It would be regressive, however, with most of the benefit going to the better off. Exceptional increases in benefits (eg replacing the cuts at the end of lockdown etc) would be much more targetted towards those most affected by the cost of living crisis (and would also increase the multiplier effect on public spending due to the higher propensity to spend in that sector).
    I suppose the best thing you can say about it is that, with the transition to electric vehicles, the government was going to have to get used to doing without the revenue from fuel duty eventually, so this only brings forward that transition somewhat. But it's a huge sum of money to spend for remarkably little impact, and possibly even to do political damage, as the government then assumes political responsibility for future increases in fuel costs.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Where I wonder is that PB chorus of how great it is that wages are going up and prices are going up and wages are going up. I wonder if wage growth has hit 8.2%.

    This is why the Tories are in my view, in big trouble. For the north this is levelling down whether they get a new train station or not
    There's a big number of 'just about managing' households in the Midlands, too.
    Energy and fuel costs will bite them hard.

    It's tough to be in power when the reckoning comes, whatever the chancellor does.
    The government has clearly decided that it wants to reduce the number of 'just about managing' households... by transforming them into 'no longer managing' households. Genius.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    To think Michael Bloomberg was taken seriously at one point for POTUS.

    This tweet is beyond parody.

    Bloomberg Economics
    @economics
    From selling your car to forgoing chemotherapy for your dog, @tghilarducci has tips on how to beat inflation (via @bopinion)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    TOPPING said:

    Where I wonder is that PB chorus of how great it is that wages are going up and prices are going up and wages are going up. I wonder if wage growth has hit 8.2%.

    The chorus was that its great if wages are sustainably going up more than prices - and that if prices are going up because of and thus less than wages, then that's not a bad thing.

    Prices aren't going up due to wage demands, they're going up due to energy costs. There's nothing good in that (except for the green zealots).

    Prices have multiple components to their increase. If wages are going up but commodity costs are flat, then we have real wage growth and that is good. If wages aren't going up but commodity costs are rising steeply, then we have real wage decline and that is bad. Is that really hard for you to understand?
    There is no escape from the reality that a deficit in energy has to make some people, somewhere (or most people, everywhere), materially poorer.

    The correct government response is to do what is required to restore a reliable energy surplus as soon as possible. I don't see how a cut in taxes on energy helps with that at all, but it seems to be the most eye-catching announcement to be made.
    Living standards are being crushed by two fundamental forces. First, population ageing, which means that every worker has to support more non working pensioners. Second, rising energy costs, which reflect the fact that we can't burn cheap fossil fuels with gay abandon if we want our children and grandchildren to inherit a habitable planet. Fundamental solutions include raising labour productivity, raising the pension age, immigration to rebalance the demographic profile and investment to reduce the cost of renewable energy. That we have imposed a further tax on ourselves by putting up trade barriers with the EU is unfortunate, it's the kind of indulgence we simply can't afford right now.
    In the context of the challenges you cite, whether we are EU members is about as consequential as a fart in a hurricane.

    What matters much more either way is the quality of our political leadership. Which is unfortunate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited March 2022

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    It looks to me like almost everyone else in that clip is staring awkwardly at their feet.
    Who knew that BatShitCrazyTV was a thing in Russia.
    Not sure we should judge a country by its panel shows and vox pops, the mind boggles what people would make of us on that basis.
    Any Russian or North Korean listening to our state broadcaster and its slobbering panegyric to William and Kate touching down in Jamaica would feel an ache of weary recognition.
    Hope neither are tempted to do a dance with some locals - Harry maybe can get away with that , none of the other royals or indeed Theresa May
    I regret to say that there has already been dancing, and there will no doubt be more dancing.

    https://twitter.com/royanikkhah/status/1505617107136008201?s=21

    Still, the fresh, sensitive approach of these ‘young’ royals is just the thing to revitalise the monarchy.





  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    I don't think we Dutch were a great deal better.

    You are right. The world needs to redress the past & then move on along new foundations. Evil Vlad is a throwback to an old way of colonial and imperial rule.
    How do you propose we redress the past? A tax on white people to give to black people? I have never enslaved anyone, should I pay for what people from my country did 10 or more generations ago? What about the Romans? Do the Italians need to pay reparations around their empire for the slavery they did? Or the Barbary slavers?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited March 2022

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I think my question would be, 'what will be this year's pasty tax?' Because there will be one.

    I'm thinking the odds are it will be this silly loan on energy bills, if that's still going ahead at all.

    Bound to be a generous-looking gimmick that falls apart under scrutiny.

    He's not got that much room to play with. TEN BILLION POUNDS sounds like a lot, but it's about £150 per person across the country, which will barely touch the sides of the problem. £3 a week.

    And the fiscal outlook for next year (which ideally will be election runup) looks worse than expected.

    And whilst not much of this is Rishi's fault, he will inevitably cop the blame.
    He will obviously cut duty, as I have pointed out before the net cost is practically zero given the increased VAT take.
    I think (hope) he does something about those on benefits.
    The loan gimick on fuel bills needs to be dropped.
    There will presumably be yet more money for the NHS focused on backlogs.
    Possible wild card would be the suspension of VAT on domestic fuel, benefit of Brexit etc
    Isn't cutting the tax on fuel little better than burning the cash?

    Given the price is set by a balance between demand and supply, the cut in the duty rate will just get eaten up by price rises as they increase further to reach the equilibrium point.
    It shows the government is doing what it can to address the cost of living crisis. The problem would be when would ever be a good time to bring it back, like the fuel duty escalator, which has been in abeyance since 2010. It would be regressive, however, with most of the benefit going to the better off. Exceptional increases in benefits (eg replacing the cuts at the end of lockdown etc) would be much more targetted towards those most affected by the cost of living crisis (and would also increase the multiplier effect on public spending due to the higher propensity to spend in that sector).
    I suppose the best thing you can say about it is that, with the transition to electric vehicles, the government was going to have to get used to doing without the revenue from fuel duty eventually, so this only brings forward that transition somewhat. But it's a huge sum of money to spend for remarkably little impact, and possibly even to do political damage, as the government then assumes political responsibility for future increases in fuel costs.
    Look at what happened with domestic energy prices. Government tried to force a cap on prices, but markets intervened and now it’s not Putin’s fault but the government’s that prices are rising.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    It looks to me like almost everyone else in that clip is staring awkwardly at their feet.
    Who knew that BatShitCrazyTV was a thing in Russia.
    Not sure we should judge a country by its panel shows and vox pops, the mind boggles what people would make of us on that basis.
    Any Russian or North Korean listening to our state broadcaster and its slobbering panegyric to William and Kate touching down in Jamaica would feel an ache of weary recognition.
    Hope neither are tempted to do a dance with some locals - Harry maybe can get away with that , none of the other royals or indeed Theresa May
    I regret to say that there has already been dancing, and there will no doubt be more dancing.

    https://twitter.com/royanikkhah/status/1505617107136008201?s=21

    Still, the fresh, sensitive approach of these ‘young’ royals is just the thing to revitalise the monarchy.





    What the fuck made them think that was a good idea?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Another example of ordinary people being pro-monarchy whereas the intellectuals are anti it?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10642801/William-Kate-greeted-adoring-crowds-Jamaica-chanting-love-you.html
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    It looks to me like almost everyone else in that clip is staring awkwardly at their feet.
    Who knew that BatShitCrazyTV was a thing in Russia.
    Not sure we should judge a country by its panel shows and vox pops, the mind boggles what people would make of us on that basis.
    Any Russian or North Korean listening to our state broadcaster and its slobbering panegyric to William and Kate touching down in Jamaica would feel an ache of weary recognition.
    Hope neither are tempted to do a dance with some locals - Harry maybe can get away with that , none of the other royals or indeed Theresa May
    I regret to say that there has already been dancing, and there will no doubt be more dancing.

    https://twitter.com/royanikkhah/status/1505617107136008201?s=21

    Still, the fresh, sensitive approach of these ‘young’ royals is just the thing to revitalise the monarchy.





    What the fuck made them think that was a good idea?
    “Slavery is rather terrible, isn’t it darling?”
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381

    Taz said:

    The Tories' majority would be wiped out in a general election held tomorrow, a new poll shows, as Britain's looming cost of living crisis threatens to engulf Boris Johnson's government.

    New MRP research, carried out by Survation for campaign group 38 Degrees, found 92 Conservative MPs would be voted out and Labour would be the largest party in a hung parliament, with an estimated 293 seats to the Tories’ 273.

    There isn’t an election tomorrow so it’s somewhat irrelevant.
    Generally speaking the degree of relevance of a particular poll is in direct relationship to whether you like the numbers.
    I’m agnostic on the numbers. At this stage polls are interesting to see the trajectory and how the gap looks but some people just fixate on them. I think the locals are of more relevance.

    This poll is pretty much in line with what we are seeing at the moment across the pollsters.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    I don't think we Dutch were a great deal better.

    You are right. The world needs to redress the past & then move on along new foundations. Evil Vlad is a throwback to an old way of colonial and imperial rule.
    How do you propose we redress the past? A tax on white people to give to black people? I have never enslaved anyone, should I pay for what people from my country did 10 or more generations ago? What about the Romans? Do the Italians need to pay reparations around their empire for the slavery they did? Or the Barbary slavers?
    You know, we don't need to lay all our riches at the feet of every colony, but 0.7%, thoughtfully spent on an ongoing basis, as well as supporting good governments where they arise to economically build up their nations, would be a start. May our self-interest always be enlightened.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    It looks to me like almost everyone else in that clip is staring awkwardly at their feet.
    Who knew that BatShitCrazyTV was a thing in Russia.
    Not sure we should judge a country by its panel shows and vox pops, the mind boggles what people would make of us on that basis.
    Any Russian or North Korean listening to our state broadcaster and its slobbering panegyric to William and Kate touching down in Jamaica would feel an ache of weary recognition.
    Hope neither are tempted to do a dance with some locals - Harry maybe can get away with that , none of the other royals or indeed Theresa May
    I regret to say that there has already been dancing, and there will no doubt be more dancing.

    https://twitter.com/royanikkhah/status/1505617107136008201?s=21

    Still, the fresh, sensitive approach of these ‘young’ royals is just the thing to revitalise the monarchy.





    What the fuck made them think that was a good idea?
    What a racist attitude from you to a traditional Pacific Islands welcome
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    OT for concerned hypochondriacs and test and trace fans:-

    Testing for COVID with the sound of a cough? There’s an app for that
    And it's right more often than rapid antigen tests

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/23/covid_detecting_smartphone_app/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    boulay said:

    Does anyone here know if any reputable/capable think tanks have ever studied the maths on a very radical change to the UK tax approach?

    For example cutting income tax to a flat rate of 20% starting at a level where those on minimum wage don’t pay tax and then rebalancing it by focussing on wealth and asset taxes. In addition changing VAT so that “essentials” (maybe food/clothes under a certain price etc) are free of VAT and then a scaled tax on “luxuries” (cars, for example, having a staged increasing VAT based on value, jewellery such as £10,000 watches attracting a much higher rate than one under £100 etc).

    Effectively changing things so that people who are only able to live ordinary lives are not squeezed and those who want more “things” can make the choice how much they want them.

    Just interested in the feasibility of the maths and amounts raised rather than the politics of it.

    It seems every chancellor of every stripe is only able to really tinker around the edges but what if they are tinkering when the whole thing needs ripping up.

    If you did it dramatically, the maths would be complicated by the significant changes in behaviour you'd expect as a consequence of the change.

    Merging tax and NI would clearly make sense and should have been done years ago. Usually when it's discussed it's the inequitably favourable position of pensioners that is raised (and if politically necessary, pensioners could be given some offsetting compensation by playing with the level and age-requirements of the age-related tax allowances), but of course it is also unearned income from property and investments that also benefits from being 'exempt' from NI.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Where I wonder is that PB chorus of how great it is that wages are going up and prices are going up and wages are going up. I wonder if wage growth has hit 8.2%.

    The chorus was that its great if wages are sustainably going up more than prices - and that if prices are going up because of and thus less than wages, then that's not a bad thing.

    Prices aren't going up due to wage demands, they're going up due to energy costs. There's nothing good in that (except for the green zealots).

    Prices have multiple components to their increase. If wages are going up but commodity costs are flat, then we have real wage growth and that is good. If wages aren't going up but commodity costs are rising steeply, then we have real wage decline and that is bad. Is that really hard for you to understand?
    Even first year economists understand that wage rises in turn lead to price rises and vice versa. The fact that the UK suffered an exogenous energy price shock simply adds, ahem, fuel to the fire.
    Are you suggesting wage increases are a BAD thing? That's part of the reason we're in the populist mess we are.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited March 2022
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I think my question would be, 'what will be this year's pasty tax?' Because there will be one.

    I'm thinking the odds are it will be this silly loan on energy bills, if that's still going ahead at all.

    Bound to be a generous-looking gimmick that falls apart under scrutiny.

    He's not got that much room to play with. TEN BILLION POUNDS sounds like a lot, but it's about £150 per person across the country, which will barely touch the sides of the problem. £3 a week.

    And the fiscal outlook for next year (which ideally will be election runup) looks worse than expected.

    And whilst not much of this is Rishi's fault, he will inevitably cop the blame.
    It seems that the triple lock on pensions will be reinstated for pensions and if that is matched on other benefits the bill is going to be billions
    Taxes up on working families.
    The time will come for some form of wealth tax
    Well vote Labour again then as you did in 1997 and 2001 because you certainly will not be getting a wealth tax from a Tory government
    Be careful, they are coming after your inheritance
    I doubt even Labour would given how unpopular inheritance tax is
    Depends on whether one’s voters have anything to either pass on or inherit.
    Even Labour voters dislike it

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/03/19/inheritance-tax-most-unfair
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    Pro_Rata said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    I don't think we Dutch were a great deal better.

    You are right. The world needs to redress the past & then move on along new foundations. Evil Vlad is a throwback to an old way of colonial and imperial rule.
    How do you propose we redress the past? A tax on white people to give to black people? I have never enslaved anyone, should I pay for what people from my country did 10 or more generations ago? What about the Romans? Do the Italians need to pay reparations around their empire for the slavery they did? Or the Barbary slavers?
    You know, we don't need to lay all our riches at the feet of every colony, but 0.7%, thoughtfully spent on an ongoing basis, as well as supporting good governments where they arise to economically build up their nations, would be a start. May our self-interest always be enlightened.
    Restore the overseas aid budget back to its manifesto commitment and relabel aid as reparations? You should go into politics. :wink:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr HYUFD,

    "Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took."

    Too late, last time I was in Copenhagen, I told a few amused Danes they were forgiven. Not so sure about the Italians, though.

    As for Tony apologising for the Irish famine, I'm sure some of my great-great grandfathers will appreciate the apology from some of my other great-great grandfathers. If they were still alive.

    Didnt Nicola recently say sorry for burning witches?
    More nuanced than that. But translated into PBTory speak, yes.
    Of course (some) Tory types actually in Scotland seemed able to appreciate the nuance unlike those further afield. As ever, distance lends incomprehension.


  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    It looks to me like almost everyone else in that clip is staring awkwardly at their feet.
    Who knew that BatShitCrazyTV was a thing in Russia.
    Not sure we should judge a country by its panel shows and vox pops, the mind boggles what people would make of us on that basis.
    Any Russian or North Korean listening to our state broadcaster and its slobbering panegyric to William and Kate touching down in Jamaica would feel an ache of weary recognition.
    Hope neither are tempted to do a dance with some locals - Harry maybe can get away with that , none of the other royals or indeed Theresa May
    I regret to say that there has already been dancing, and there will no doubt be more dancing.

    https://twitter.com/royanikkhah/status/1505617107136008201?s=21

    Still, the fresh, sensitive approach of these ‘young’ royals is just the thing to revitalise the monarchy.





    What the fuck made them think that was a good idea?
    I assume they didn't request it, so clearly the people involved were fine with it.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited March 2022

    Taz said:

    The Tories' majority would be wiped out in a general election held tomorrow, a new poll shows, as Britain's looming cost of living crisis threatens to engulf Boris Johnson's government.

    New MRP research, carried out by Survation for campaign group 38 Degrees, found 92 Conservative MPs would be voted out and Labour would be the largest party in a hung parliament, with an estimated 293 seats to the Tories’ 273.

    There isn’t an election tomorrow so it’s somewhat irrelevant.
    Generally speaking the degree of relevance of a particular poll is in direct relationship to whether you like the numbers.
    Polls are relevant when Labour is down and relevant when the Tories are up. PB rules!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    TOPPING said:

    Where I wonder is that PB chorus of how great it is that wages are going up and prices are going up and wages are going up. I wonder if wage growth has hit 8.2%.

    The chorus was that its great if wages are sustainably going up more than prices - and that if prices are going up because of and thus less than wages, then that's not a bad thing.

    Prices aren't going up due to wage demands, they're going up due to energy costs. There's nothing good in that (except for the green zealots).

    Prices have multiple components to their increase. If wages are going up but commodity costs are flat, then we have real wage growth and that is good. If wages aren't going up but commodity costs are rising steeply, then we have real wage decline and that is bad. Is that really hard for you to understand?
    There is no escape from the reality that a deficit in energy has to make some people, somewhere (or most people, everywhere), materially poorer.

    The correct government response is to do what is required to restore a reliable energy surplus as soon as possible. I don't see how a cut in taxes on energy helps with that at all, but it seems to be the most eye-catching announcement to be made.
    Living standards are being crushed by two fundamental forces. First, population ageing, which means that every worker has to support more non working pensioners. Second, rising energy costs, which reflect the fact that we can't burn cheap fossil fuels with gay abandon if we want our children and grandchildren to inherit a habitable planet. Fundamental solutions include raising labour productivity, raising the pension age, immigration to rebalance the demographic profile and investment to reduce the cost of renewable energy. That we have imposed a further tax on ourselves by putting up trade barriers with the EU is unfortunate, it's the kind of indulgence we simply can't afford right now.
    In the context of the challenges you cite, whether we are EU members is about as consequential as a fart in a hurricane.

    What matters much more either way is the quality of our political leadership. Which is unfortunate.
    I disagree. If you look at firm level data on productivity, exports are a really important channel for moving up the value chain and boosting productivity. Creating additional frictions for exporters will I think have a quite profound negative effect on productivity that will accumulate over time. When we actually need productivity to grow faster, this is unfortunate, an indulgence we can ill-afford. I am extremely pessimistic about the UK's future prosperity.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Where I wonder is that PB chorus of how great it is that wages are going up and prices are going up and wages are going up. I wonder if wage growth has hit 8.2%.

    Unions are now asking for rises in the region of 10%

    There are car component suppliers of bearings in the North East about to strike over pay.

    Good for them.
    Absolutely; it only needs for them to force us to start manufacturing the Allegra again and the picture will be complete.
    Poor old 'Allegra', gets the blame for a shitload of poor decisions and crappy actions of others.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    p.s.
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    If you're planning to introduce some nuance and complexity to your posts, that can only be good news. ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    Old men discussing their fantasies.
    That's enough about pb.com. What did you think of the Russian TV shit?
    LOL

    The impression I get of Russia is of a great nation humiliating itself. It is an absolute tragedy. Makes me feel a bit better about our own country.
    who could have imagined there was a worse country with a worse leader than the UK.
    Not quite sure about worse country, Malc, but worse leader..... closer.
    OKC, close call for sure
    Okay Malc, I know I'm risking some turnip-juice inspired vitriol from you, but there is really zero comparison between Putin and Johnson. Johnson has many, many flaws, but he is near to an angel in comparison to Putin.

    Look at the roads Putin has taken his country down. Look at his hamfisted reaction to the Covid crisis. Look at the Litvinenko or Salisbury. Look at the way he has stifled free press in his country; the way he has strangled democracy.

    For all Johnson's faults, he is not a Putin. Neither do I think he wants to be.
    But to compare characters, you have to have comparable circumstances.

    The question is, how would Johnson behave were he a politician in a political and economic system as is Russia's? And, conversely, how would Putin behave were he a politician in a democracy like the UK?

    Given Johnson's apparent character, instincts, immorality and evidenced behaviour, I'm not convinced that the Russians would be hugely better off. The big difference ISTM is that Johnson is lazy, doesn't really give a toss about anything other than himself, and wouldn't have such a grip on his subordinates, thus the 'Russian' budget would be wasted on futile vanity projects which Johnson would be filmed in front of. But, just maybe, he wouldn't be so obsessed with expanding his country. So the 'Ukranians' in the analogy might be better off. But lets not kid ourselves that Johnson has very much commitment to the values of our democracy, the rule of law, personal and financial integrity. In a totalitarian political system, Johnson would be milking its benefits for himself; I don't see any evidence that he'd be doing a Gorbachev and be trying to steer his country towards openness and democracy?

    For an instance of how someone can start out appearing to be a democratic politician yet slowly turn his country in an authoritarian direction, look at Orban. He's managed it because the culture and institutions standing in his way are far less resilient than ours, given that Hungary has no democratic traditions at all.
    But that's all supposition. He was not raised and inculcated in the Russian system; it might be that he had very different views from those you suppose.

    Do you think, if you were in a political and economic system such as Russia's, that you would be the virtuous shining light you are in the UK? Would the political system have tainted you, or would you have fought the injustices? (Hint: most people get tainted.)

    How would Mandelson have been in such a society? Blair? Or really interesting questions: would someone like Corbyn have been as anti-western as he is now, or would have been anti-government?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Except ordinary people in Jamaica seem to be supportive of the monarchy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    edited March 2022
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.

    edit: I'm never sure whether using the term 'walt' makes it seem as though I have an army connection I don't have, and therefore turns me into a walt myself... ;)
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036

    Taz said:

    The Tories' majority would be wiped out in a general election held tomorrow, a new poll shows, as Britain's looming cost of living crisis threatens to engulf Boris Johnson's government.

    New MRP research, carried out by Survation for campaign group 38 Degrees, found 92 Conservative MPs would be voted out and Labour would be the largest party in a hung parliament, with an estimated 293 seats to the Tories’ 273.

    There isn’t an election tomorrow so it’s somewhat irrelevant.
    Generally speaking the degree of relevance of a particular poll is in direct relationship to whether you like the numbers.
    Polls are relevant when Labour is down and relevant when the Tories are up. PB rules!
    They aren't relevant at all until 3-6 months before the election.

    That means they are relevant all the time during a minority government, because there could be a general election at any time. But with a government with a majority of 80, they are totally irrelevant until just before the real poll
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    Old men discussing their fantasies.
    That's enough about pb.com. What did you think of the Russian TV shit?
    LOL

    The impression I get of Russia is of a great nation humiliating itself. It is an absolute tragedy. Makes me feel a bit better about our own country.
    who could have imagined there was a worse country with a worse leader than the UK.
    Not quite sure about worse country, Malc, but worse leader..... closer.
    OKC, close call for sure
    Okay Malc, I know I'm risking some turnip-juice inspired vitriol from you, but there is really zero comparison between Putin and Johnson. Johnson has many, many flaws, but he is near to an angel in comparison to Putin.

    Look at the roads Putin has taken his country down. Look at his hamfisted reaction to the Covid crisis. Look at the Litvinenko or Salisbury. Look at the way he has stifled free press in his country; the way he has strangled democracy.

    For all Johnson's faults, he is not a Putin. Neither do I think he wants to be.
    But to compare characters, you have to have comparable circumstances.

    The question is, how would Johnson behave were he a politician in a political and economic system as is Russia's? And, conversely, how would Putin behave were he a politician in a democracy like the UK?

    Given Johnson's apparent character, instincts, immorality and evidenced behaviour, I'm not convinced that the Russians would be hugely better off. The big difference ISTM is that Johnson is lazy, doesn't really give a toss about anything other than himself, and wouldn't have such a grip on his subordinates, thus the 'Russian' budget would be wasted on futile vanity projects which Johnson would be filmed in front of. But, just maybe, he wouldn't be so obsessed with expanding his country. So the 'Ukranians' in the analogy might be better off. But lets not kid ourselves that Johnson has very much commitment to the values of our democracy, the rule of law, personal and financial integrity. In a totalitarian political system, Johnson would be milking its benefits for himself; I don't see any evidence that he'd be doing a Gorbachev and be trying to steer his country towards openness and democracy?

    For an instance of how someone can start out appearing to be a democratic politician yet slowly turn his country in an authoritarian direction, look at Orban. He's managed it because the culture and institutions standing in his way are far less resilient than ours, given that Hungary has no democratic traditions at all.
    But that's all supposition. He was not raised and inculcated in the Russian system; it might be that he had very different views from those you suppose.

    Do you think, if you were in a political and economic system such as Russia's, that you would be the virtuous shining light you are in the UK? Would the political system have tainted you, or would you have fought the injustices? (Hint: most people get tainted.)

    How would Mandelson have been in such a society? Blair? Or really interesting questions: would someone like Corbyn have been as anti-western as he is now, or would have been anti-government?
    Of course. And none of us can really know. It's a consideration that crops up whenever the hypothetical of German occupation of Britain is discussed; despite the supposed British exceptionalism, I suspect the reality would have been the majority keeping their heads down and a good degree of collaboration, as was seen everywhere else.

    But it's meaningful to consider how someone would behave, were many of the current constraints upon their behaviour removed, and in that respect I suggest that Johnson doesn't shine.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    (A little surprising to see it in such close proximity to 'Corbyn')
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    Does anyone here know if any reputable/capable think tanks have ever studied the maths on a very radical change to the UK tax approach?

    For example cutting income tax to a flat rate of 20% starting at a level where those on minimum wage don’t pay tax and then rebalancing it by focussing on wealth and asset taxes. In addition changing VAT so that “essentials” (maybe food/clothes under a certain price etc) are free of VAT and then a scaled tax on “luxuries” (cars, for example, having a staged increasing VAT based on value, jewellery such as £10,000 watches attracting a much higher rate than one under £100 etc).

    Effectively changing things so that people who are only able to live ordinary lives are not squeezed and those who want more “things” can make the choice how much they want them.

    Just interested in the feasibility of the maths and amounts raised rather than the politics of it.

    It seems every chancellor of every stripe is only able to really tinker around the edges but what if they are tinkering when the whole thing needs ripping up.

    If you did it dramatically, the maths would be complicated by the significant changes in behaviour you'd expect as a consequence of the change.

    Merging tax and NI would clearly make sense and should have been done years ago. Usually when it's discussed it's the inequitably favourable position of pensioners that is raised (and if politically necessary, pensioners could be given some offsetting compensation by playing with the level and age-requirements of the age-related tax allowances), but of course it is also unearned income from property and investments that also benefits from being 'exempt' from NI.
    I’m sure there would be behavioural changes but maybe not as great as we think.

    For example someone who “needs” a Rolex and wants the one that’s £10k might suddenly find its £12k. So they can buy the “lesser” one that’s now £10k and the treasury still gets a wad of tax or they stump up the extra £2k for the one that they feel they need to keep up with their mates or they don’t care because they have the sort of money where they don’t really care about 10k or 12k they just want the watch. But because they are now only paying 20% income tax it’s less of an issue on discretionary spending so the negative is reduced.

    And house prices will clearly be affected if a much greater weighting on wealth tax. Some people will cut their cloth accordingly and some will not care again as they have more discretionary spending free from their income.

    I’m not sure it’s something I agree with but would love to see a good study on whether it’s practical to raise the same amounts in a very different way which maybe has big benefits in behaviour but also allowing those who aren’t asset rich to keep more of their income and make a decision if they “need”certain things and so have to weigh up the tax implications more.

    If the maths work then would it have social benefits to society? Who knows but like I said it always seems to be marginal tinkering by and large.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Food for thought for a number of us - people like me, for predicting that Putin was just willy-waving, Conservatives here for celebrating the City with its accommodating attitude to tax avoiders:

    https://www.ft.com/content/857d2ccd-2853-43ba-b6b9-88e04b42ba93
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    It looks to me like almost everyone else in that clip is staring awkwardly at their feet.
    Who knew that BatShitCrazyTV was a thing in Russia.
    Not sure we should judge a country by its panel shows and vox pops, the mind boggles what people would make of us on that basis.
    Any Russian or North Korean listening to our state broadcaster and its slobbering panegyric to William and Kate touching down in Jamaica would feel an ache of weary recognition.
    Hope neither are tempted to do a dance with some locals - Harry maybe can get away with that , none of the other royals or indeed Theresa May
    I regret to say that there has already been dancing, and there will no doubt be more dancing.

    https://twitter.com/royanikkhah/status/1505617107136008201?s=21

    Still, the fresh, sensitive approach of these ‘young’ royals is just the thing to revitalise the monarchy.





    What the fuck made them think that was a good idea?
    What a racist attitude from you to a traditional Pacific Islands welcome
    1930s HYUFD: What a racist attitude criticising our ex-king and his bird for giving the traditional Hitlergruß to his welcoming hosts.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    edited March 2022

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.

    Even then, only @rcs1000 would see said IP address, assuming he takes the trouble to look at the logs and then does a reverse lookup of each of the thousands of addresses therein.

    And then takes out a full-page advert in Her Majesty's Daily Telegraph.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.

    edit: I'm never sure whether using the term 'walt' makes it seem as though I have an army connection I don't have, and therefore turns me into a walt myself... ;)
    It’s worse if it’s true. Means they are placing someone’s career at risk in order to be “right” on the internet.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Taz said:

    The Tories' majority would be wiped out in a general election held tomorrow, a new poll shows, as Britain's looming cost of living crisis threatens to engulf Boris Johnson's government.

    New MRP research, carried out by Survation for campaign group 38 Degrees, found 92 Conservative MPs would be voted out and Labour would be the largest party in a hung parliament, with an estimated 293 seats to the Tories’ 273.

    There isn’t an election tomorrow so it’s somewhat irrelevant.
    Generally speaking the degree of relevance of a particular poll is in direct relationship to whether you like the numbers.
    Three months and 17 days since the last Tory poll lead.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    TOPPING said:

    Where I wonder is that PB chorus of how great it is that wages are going up and prices are going up and wages are going up. I wonder if wage growth has hit 8.2%.

    The chorus was that its great if wages are sustainably going up more than prices - and that if prices are going up because of and thus less than wages, then that's not a bad thing.

    Prices aren't going up due to wage demands, they're going up due to energy costs. There's nothing good in that (except for the green zealots).

    Prices have multiple components to their increase. If wages are going up but commodity costs are flat, then we have real wage growth and that is good. If wages aren't going up but commodity costs are rising steeply, then we have real wage decline and that is bad. Is that really hard for you to understand?
    There is no escape from the reality that a deficit in energy has to make some people, somewhere (or most people, everywhere), materially poorer.

    The correct government response is to do what is required to restore a reliable energy surplus as soon as possible. I don't see how a cut in taxes on energy helps with that at all, but it seems to be the most eye-catching announcement to be made.
    Living standards are being crushed by two fundamental forces. First, population ageing, which means that every worker has to support more non working pensioners. Second, rising energy costs, which reflect the fact that we can't burn cheap fossil fuels with gay abandon if we want our children and grandchildren to inherit a habitable planet. Fundamental solutions include raising labour productivity, raising the pension age, immigration to rebalance the demographic profile and investment to reduce the cost of renewable energy. That we have imposed a further tax on ourselves by putting up trade barriers with the EU is unfortunate, it's the kind of indulgence we simply can't afford right now.
    In the context of the challenges you cite, whether we are EU members is about as consequential as a fart in a hurricane.

    What matters much more either way is the quality of our political leadership. Which is unfortunate.
    I disagree. If you look at firm level data on productivity, exports are a really important channel for moving up the value chain and boosting productivity. Creating additional frictions for exporters will I think have a quite profound negative effect on productivity that will accumulate over time. When we actually need productivity to grow faster, this is unfortunate, an indulgence we can ill-afford. I am extremely pessimistic about the UK's future prosperity.
    From where I'm standing the economic record of the UK over the last couple of decades or so has looked poor. Productivity growth has been poor. Investment is low. We've sold huge quantities of assets to fund unsustainable imports.

    I don't blame EU membership for this, but that only demonstrates it's not the most important factor determining our economic performance. That is, and will continue to be, the quality of our political leadership.

    Our economy won't improve until our political choices improve.

    Getting serious about improving our political choices means accepting our relationship with the EU is not the order one economic issue to deal with.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576
    Incidentally: no idea if it's true or not, but the other day I saw a letter allegedly sent to an MP from a green group, asking if the government had considered the climate obligations of sending weapons to Ukraine, considering weapons might harm the climate...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.
    And not to mention that the IP addresses of the reputable VPN providers are all known, and shouldn't appear in a blocklist of IP addresses known to belong to spammers.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    I find you consistently interesting, partly because I'm never quite sure what you're going to say about anything. Thank you for persevering.
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    That does not give them much of a chance if it is your default? I am guessing a lot of people use this website because they have a big interest in politics. There must be a stack of people on here with connections in parliaments - politicians, civil servants for example. I can well imagine that with data mining these days it could put some people in a very sticky position.

    A lot has changed in this world since the days of Walter Mitty and the internet exposes us in ways that may be we should all be more careful about.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    The Government could bin (or suspend) green taxes on fuel/energy.

    It's a rather straightforward option. I believe the Germans have done that already (for energy, at least).
  • Haven't seen anything else to back it up, but just now from an Ukrainian MP..

    Lesia Vasylenko
    @lesiavasylenko
    Germany 🇩🇪 to impose embargo on #Russia oil and gas. Better late than never. Thanks for waking up!
    https://twitter.com/lesiavasylenko/status/1506561229749428230
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited March 2022

    MrEd said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    Not exactly mass demonstrations looking at that picture. I see the Sky article pretty much entirely consists of quotes from this lady:

    "Opal Adisa, a retired professor in her 60s, is a gender specialist and human rights advocate who works with Advocates Network, a coalition of Jamaican politicians, business leaders, doctors and musicians, and was taking part in the protest".

    Perhaps not so representative of the population.

    In any event, Jamaica has been talking about getting rid the Monarchy for years and hasn't done much about it. It's a topic that is a great talking point for the politicians but, given the state of Jamaican politics, there seems to be a tacit understanding that it might be better to leave things as they are, at least for now.
    What good will it do?

    I get the appeal in principle but in practice the Governor-General is always domestic now and the Monarch provides pageantry and ceremony on top and Commonwealth kinship.

    I certainly wouldn't vote to get rid of it.
    I find it fascinating that people who were so fixated on their notion of sovereignty that we needed to leave the European Union can't see why Jamaicans should be quite keen on not having a British head of state.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    How are you exposing someone at Westminster. You stay anonymous and are expressing your views not whoever you are close to. I think you maybe are underestimating how many are close to Westminster here.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.
    Quite, I don't get the fetishisation of IP addresses. If you are using mobile data you could be anyone, and you can change your broadband IP by disconnecting for half an hour unless you are static
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Fishing said:

    Taz said:

    The Tories' majority would be wiped out in a general election held tomorrow, a new poll shows, as Britain's looming cost of living crisis threatens to engulf Boris Johnson's government.

    New MRP research, carried out by Survation for campaign group 38 Degrees, found 92 Conservative MPs would be voted out and Labour would be the largest party in a hung parliament, with an estimated 293 seats to the Tories’ 273.

    There isn’t an election tomorrow so it’s somewhat irrelevant.
    Generally speaking the degree of relevance of a particular poll is in direct relationship to whether you like the numbers.
    Polls are relevant when Labour is down and relevant when the Tories are up. PB rules!
    They aren't relevant at all until 3-6 months before the election.

    That means they are relevant all the time during a minority government, because there could be a general election at any time. But with a government with a majority of 80, they are totally irrelevant until just before the real poll
    It depends. Relevant to what? No polling is relevant in terms of direct consequence except the actual vote on polling day.

    Polling is relevant to: the betting industry, the diversions and amusements of PBers, journalists who need to fill space, politicians who want to take the temperature, politicians who need lots of actual data to carefully select from for publicity purposes.

    For me they have mostly the relevance and pointlessness of games. Games or sports are best defined as 'the activity of overcoming unnecessary obstacles'. producing reliable or trustworthy polling at most points of the cycle is exactly that. It is difficult, and unnecessary, and fun for the spectators. Their results can only be validated by the next polling, and so on for ever.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381
    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    What do you mean ‘finally accepting’. I have never once claimed, or said, or agreed with anyone who did, that you are a Russian troll.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Roger said:

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    'Habib' is the adjective form of the verb حب (love). Suffixing ي ('habibi') makes it genitive construction so the literal translation is 'my beloved'. Although there is no intimation of intimacy or emotional attachment as would be associated with that phrase in English.

    Best used sparingly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    That does not give them much of a chance if it is your default? I am guessing a lot of people use this website because they have a big interest in politics. There must be a stack of people on here with connections in parliaments - politicians, civil servants for example. I can well imagine that with data mining these days it could put some people in a very sticky position.

    A lot has changed in this world since the days of Walter Mitty and the internet exposes us in ways that may be we should all be more careful about.
    Yes, but if you have such a connection, it's best to keep quiet about it. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority that cannot be challenged. "Of course I know more because I am connected. I just can't tell you how..."

    But you also get an impression about people. For instance, Roger and MM evidently 'know' the film/media industry, so if they talk about people they've met and know, I treat is as reliable.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.
    Quite, I don't get the fetishisation of IP addresses. If you are using mobile data you could be anyone, and you can change your broadband IP by disconnecting for half an hour unless you are static
    A lot of internet data mining is done by UserAgent Tracking as your browser discloses a lot of info about your computer's configuration which may be enough yo uniquely identify it.

    You can test your machine's uniqueness fingerprint at the EFF

    https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381

    The Government could bin (or suspend) green taxes on fuel/energy.

    It's a rather straightforward option. I believe the Germans have done that already (for energy, at least).

    They won’t as it will upset the barking mad eco loons who the govt are in thrall to.

    It also depends what these taxes are for. If it is just to rinse people for money then can them. If it is hypothecated and used to help the transition to net zero then we should keep them.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882
    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Instinctively, I often favour reform of an institution over its outright abolition (perhaps, deep in my soul I'm a natural conservative despite being ideologically centre left), but how can you reform the monarchy?

    You can tinker with the edges, updating primogeniture (done), slimming down the institution to the main line (I think also done, though perhaps not necessarily by choice). Problem is, at the end of the day, it's a style of Government that has long since had its time. Our whole constitutional arrangement is paying lip service to the institution sat atop it, while mostly pretending it doesn't exist because by its very nature the institution is incompatible with a modern democratic state. That we, and others in Europe, have it at all is a historical hangover kept alive by the lack of will for an alternative. Under those circumstances, if we're going to open it up to reform we're just as well abolishing the whole thing.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
  • We pardoned Alan Turing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    edited March 2022

    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    Old men discussing their fantasies.
    That's enough about pb.com. What did you think of the Russian TV shit?
    LOL

    The impression I get of Russia is of a great nation humiliating itself. It is an absolute tragedy. Makes me feel a bit better about our own country.
    who could have imagined there was a worse country with a worse leader than the UK.
    Not quite sure about worse country, Malc, but worse leader..... closer.
    OKC, close call for sure
    Okay Malc, I know I'm risking some turnip-juice inspired vitriol from you, but there is really zero comparison between Putin and Johnson. Johnson has many, many flaws, but he is near to an angel in comparison to Putin.

    Look at the roads Putin has taken his country down. Look at his hamfisted reaction to the Covid crisis. Look at the Litvinenko or Salisbury. Look at the way he has stifled free press in his country; the way he has strangled democracy.

    For all Johnson's faults, he is not a Putin. Neither do I think he wants to be.
    But to compare characters, you have to have comparable circumstances.

    The question is, how would Johnson behave were he a politician in a political and economic system as is Russia's? And, conversely, how would Putin behave were he a politician in a democracy like the UK?

    Given Johnson's apparent character, instincts, immorality and evidenced behaviour, I'm not convinced that the Russians would be hugely better off. The big difference ISTM is that Johnson is lazy, doesn't really give a toss about anything other than himself, and wouldn't have such a grip on his subordinates, thus the 'Russian' budget would be wasted on futile vanity projects which Johnson would be filmed in front of. But, just maybe, he wouldn't be so obsessed with expanding his country. So the 'Ukranians' in the analogy might be better off. But lets not kid ourselves that Johnson has very much commitment to the values of our democracy, the rule of law, personal and financial integrity. In a totalitarian political system, Johnson would be milking its benefits for himself; I don't see any evidence that he'd be doing a Gorbachev and be trying to steer his country towards openness and democracy?

    For an instance of how someone can start out appearing to be a democratic politician yet slowly turn his country in an authoritarian direction, look at Orban. He's managed it because the culture and institutions standing in his way are far less resilient than ours, given that Hungary has no democratic traditions at all.
    But that's all supposition. He was not raised and inculcated in the Russian system; it might be that he had very different views from those you suppose.

    Do you think, if you were in a political and economic system such as Russia's, that you would be the virtuous shining light you are in the UK? Would the political system have tainted you, or would you have fought the injustices? (Hint: most people get tainted.)

    How would Mandelson have been in such a society? Blair? Or really interesting questions: would someone like Corbyn have been as anti-western as he is now, or would have been anti-government?
    Corbyn would have been what he always has been, a backer of lost, losing or unpopular, but sometimes correct, causes. And we need people like that; to ask awkward questions, stop us lazily picking up the 'party line'. Whether the party in question is that in a one-party state or multi-party one.
    However what that also means is that he should never have been allowed with a thousand miles of the leadership of a major party.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    Old men discussing their fantasies.
    That's enough about pb.com. What did you think of the Russian TV shit?
    LOL

    The impression I get of Russia is of a great nation humiliating itself. It is an absolute tragedy. Makes me feel a bit better about our own country.
    who could have imagined there was a worse country with a worse leader than the UK.
    Not quite sure about worse country, Malc, but worse leader..... closer.
    OKC, close call for sure
    Okay Malc, I know I'm risking some turnip-juice inspired vitriol from you, but there is really zero comparison between Putin and Johnson. Johnson has many, many flaws, but he is near to an angel in comparison to Putin.

    Look at the roads Putin has taken his country down. Look at his hamfisted reaction to the Covid crisis. Look at the Litvinenko or Salisbury. Look at the way he has stifled free press in his country; the way he has strangled democracy.

    For all Johnson's faults, he is not a Putin. Neither do I think he wants to be.
    But to compare characters, you have to have comparable circumstances.

    The question is, how would Johnson behave were he a politician in a political and economic system as is Russia's? And, conversely, how would Putin behave were he a politician in a democracy like the UK?

    Given Johnson's apparent character, instincts, immorality and evidenced behaviour, I'm not convinced that the Russians would be hugely better off. The big difference ISTM is that Johnson is lazy, doesn't really give a toss about anything other than himself, and wouldn't have such a grip on his subordinates, thus the 'Russian' budget would be wasted on futile vanity projects which Johnson would be filmed in front of. But, just maybe, he wouldn't be so obsessed with expanding his country. So the 'Ukranians' in the analogy might be better off. But lets not kid ourselves that Johnson has very much commitment to the values of our democracy, the rule of law, personal and financial integrity. In a totalitarian political system, Johnson would be milking its benefits for himself; I don't see any evidence that he'd be doing a Gorbachev and be trying to steer his country towards openness and democracy?

    For an instance of how someone can start out appearing to be a democratic politician yet slowly turn his country in an authoritarian direction, look at Orban. He's managed it because the culture and institutions standing in his way are far less resilient than ours, given that Hungary has no democratic traditions at all.
    Counterfactuals like this are always interesting though of course we'll never know. I suspect if I'd been Russian and still interested in politics I'd have ended up in much the same way - a local provincial official who wasn't corrupt and did his best for people, sufficiently off-message to look a bit unsound to the leadership but not worth cracking down on. It's not a very flattering self-image, but realism is healthy. What do others feel about themselves? Would they have been heroic national champions of resistance to autocracy?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381

    Taz said:

    The Tories' majority would be wiped out in a general election held tomorrow, a new poll shows, as Britain's looming cost of living crisis threatens to engulf Boris Johnson's government.

    New MRP research, carried out by Survation for campaign group 38 Degrees, found 92 Conservative MPs would be voted out and Labour would be the largest party in a hung parliament, with an estimated 293 seats to the Tories’ 273.

    There isn’t an election tomorrow so it’s somewhat irrelevant.
    Generally speaking the degree of relevance of a particular poll is in direct relationship to whether you like the numbers.
    Polls are relevant when Labour is down and relevant when the Tories are up. PB rules!
    Keep obsessing over irrelevant polls and baiting Big G. They mean little this far out from an election irrespective of who is in the lead.

    The local elections will be of real interest.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    'Habib' is the adjective form of the verb حب (love). Suffixing ي ('habibi') makes it genitive construction so the literal translation is 'my beloved'. Although there is no intimation of intimacy or emotional attachment as would be associated with that phrase in English.

    Best used sparingly.
    Gràidh is I think similar in Scottish Gaelic, ie horny handed blokes in the pub will use it with each other.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    edited March 2022


    Russian trolls on PB.....this place gets

    Haven't seen anything else to back it up, but just now from an Ukrainian MP..

    Lesia Vasylenko
    @lesiavasylenko
    Germany 🇩🇪 to impose embargo on #Russia oil and gas. Better late than never. Thanks for waking up!
    https://twitter.com/lesiavasylenko/status/1506561229749428230

    Why do you always find it necessary to feel like you need to compete with Germany?

    You're not one of those football fans who march through London singing "Two World Wars ans One World Cup"......are you?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381

    Haven't seen anything else to back it up, but just now from an Ukrainian MP..

    Lesia Vasylenko
    @lesiavasylenko
    Germany 🇩🇪 to impose embargo on #Russia oil and gas. Better late than never. Thanks for waking up!
    https://twitter.com/lesiavasylenko/status/1506561229749428230

    Possibly not https://twitter.com/raider_mxd/status/1506565366855704579?s=21
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.
    Quite, I don't get the fetishisation of IP addresses. If you are using mobile data you could be anyone, and you can change your broadband IP by disconnecting for half an hour unless you are static
    A lot of internet data mining is done by UserAgent Tracking as your browser discloses a lot of info about your computer's configuration which may be enough yo uniquely identify it.

    You can test your machine's uniqueness fingerprint at the EFF

    https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
    But in the real world of ordinary users, or even Robert as admin out in California, how does that matter?

    I just ran the routine from your link, and it reveals what version of windows and what browsers I have installed, the details of a few add-ons like pdf viewers that I have, my timezone, my screen size, what fonts I have, that I am using British English, my computer's memory details, plus some more obscure technical aspects of my configuration. Even if it's unique, this data on its own is of no use to anyone (other than perhaps the security services if they were able to come looking for a similarly configured user).
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,381
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    What do you mean ‘finally accepting’. I have never once claimed, or said, or agreed with anyone who did, that you are a Russian troll.
    Russian trolls on PB.....this place gets

    Haven't seen anything else to back it up, but just now from an Ukrainian MP..

    Lesia Vasylenko
    @lesiavasylenko
    Germany 🇩🇪 to impose embargo on #Russia oil and gas. Better late than never. Thanks for waking up!
    https://twitter.com/lesiavasylenko/status/1506561229749428230

    Why do you always find it necessary to feel like you need to compete with Germany?

    You're not one of those football clowns who march through London singing "Two World Wars ans One World Cup"......are you?
    Blanche is quoting a Ukrainian MP who said that. What are you blethering on about. Give your head a wobble.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    'Habib' is the adjective form of the verb حب (love). Suffixing ي ('habibi') makes it genitive construction so the literal translation is 'my beloved'. Although there is no intimation of intimacy or emotional attachment as would be associated with that phrase in English.

    Best used sparingly.
    Gràidh is I think similar in Scottish Gaelic, ie horny handed blokes in the pub will use it with each other.
    Heard 'pet' used like that in the North East.
  • Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    What do you mean ‘finally accepting’. I have never once claimed, or said, or agreed with anyone who did, that you are a Russian troll.
    Russian trolls on PB.....this place gets

    Haven't seen anything else to back it up, but just now from an Ukrainian MP..

    Lesia Vasylenko
    @lesiavasylenko
    Germany 🇩🇪 to impose embargo on #Russia oil and gas. Better late than never. Thanks for waking up!
    https://twitter.com/lesiavasylenko/status/1506561229749428230

    Why do you always find it necessary to feel like you need to compete with Germany?

    You're not one of those football clowns who march through London singing "Two World Wars ans One World Cup"......are you?
    I'm just pointing out a possible and significant development. There was no competitive angle to my post at all.

    I'm glad you're worried that we're beating the Germans, though.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Except ordinary people in Jamaica seem to be supportive of the monarchy.
    If 55% want to remove the monarchy then does that mean 55% of the country is an unaccountable, remote elite?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
    Are we being too generous calling this a "PR stunt"?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,576

    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian TV threatening nuclear strikes. Bluster, possibly - but this is officially sanctioned.

    https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1506315902169534464
    We have no right to ignore what’s said on 🇷🇺 state TV these days. This unfortunately has all the potential for getting much worse.

    Old men discussing their fantasies.
    That's enough about pb.com. What did you think of the Russian TV shit?
    LOL

    The impression I get of Russia is of a great nation humiliating itself. It is an absolute tragedy. Makes me feel a bit better about our own country.
    who could have imagined there was a worse country with a worse leader than the UK.
    Not quite sure about worse country, Malc, but worse leader..... closer.
    OKC, close call for sure
    Okay Malc, I know I'm risking some turnip-juice inspired vitriol from you, but there is really zero comparison between Putin and Johnson. Johnson has many, many flaws, but he is near to an angel in comparison to Putin.

    Look at the roads Putin has taken his country down. Look at his hamfisted reaction to the Covid crisis. Look at the Litvinenko or Salisbury. Look at the way he has stifled free press in his country; the way he has strangled democracy.

    For all Johnson's faults, he is not a Putin. Neither do I think he wants to be.
    But to compare characters, you have to have comparable circumstances.

    The question is, how would Johnson behave were he a politician in a political and economic system as is Russia's? And, conversely, how would Putin behave were he a politician in a democracy like the UK?

    Given Johnson's apparent character, instincts, immorality and evidenced behaviour, I'm not convinced that the Russians would be hugely better off. The big difference ISTM is that Johnson is lazy, doesn't really give a toss about anything other than himself, and wouldn't have such a grip on his subordinates, thus the 'Russian' budget would be wasted on futile vanity projects which Johnson would be filmed in front of. But, just maybe, he wouldn't be so obsessed with expanding his country. So the 'Ukranians' in the analogy might be better off. But lets not kid ourselves that Johnson has very much commitment to the values of our democracy, the rule of law, personal and financial integrity. In a totalitarian political system, Johnson would be milking its benefits for himself; I don't see any evidence that he'd be doing a Gorbachev and be trying to steer his country towards openness and democracy?

    For an instance of how someone can start out appearing to be a democratic politician yet slowly turn his country in an authoritarian direction, look at Orban. He's managed it because the culture and institutions standing in his way are far less resilient than ours, given that Hungary has no democratic traditions at all.
    Counterfactuals like this are always interesting though of course we'll never know. I suspect if I'd been Russian and still interested in politics I'd have ended up in much the same way - a local provincial official who wasn't corrupt and did his best for people, sufficiently off-message to look a bit unsound to the leadership but not worth cracking down on. It's not a very flattering self-image, but realism is healthy. What do others feel about themselves? Would they have been heroic national champions of resistance to autocracy?
    Most people like to be the hero of their own story. They'd be the one running into the fire to rescue the child. They would be the one tackling the terrorist with a narwhal tusk. They'd be the one standing up to the bully.

    Most of us are not the hero; we hesitate before going into the burning fire. We run away from the terrorist. We cower from the bully.

    Except when we do not.

    I have zero doubt that if I was put in a dramatic situation, I'd look after me and my family first. But occasionally, for whatever reason, I might do the opposite.

    We also make excuses. Your last question is an interesting one: I'd like to think I'd stand up to autocracy. But then I think of how I have a wife and a young son. And I make excuses.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.
    Quite, I don't get the fetishisation of IP addresses. If you are using mobile data you could be anyone, and you can change your broadband IP by disconnecting for half an hour unless you are static
    A lot of internet data mining is done by UserAgent Tracking as your browser discloses a lot of info about your computer's configuration which may be enough yo uniquely identify it.

    You can test your machine's uniqueness fingerprint at the EFF

    https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
    But in the real world of ordinary users, or even Robert as admin out in California, how does that matter?

    I just ran the routine from your link, and it reveals what version of windows and what browsers I have installed, the details of a few add-ons like pdf viewers that I have, my timezone, my screen size, what fonts I have, that I am using British English, my computer's memory details, plus some more obscure technical aspects of my configuration. Even if it's unique, this data on its own is of no use to anyone (other than perhaps the security services if they were able to come looking for a similarly configured user).
    It means that you are uniquely trackable across the web even if you are in "stealth mode".

    Once you've been identified by one site you are completely trackable across the entire web.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
    Just remembering that someone was done under the Witchcraft Acts in England less than a century ago.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,891
    edited March 2022
    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    Not to mention that a poster's IP address is unlikely to expose a third party's identity. I suppose there are a couple of ways it could work indirectly, for instance if said poster were using a static IP address owned by JRMFunnyMoney.com, but it smacks of superstition.
    Quite, I don't get the fetishisation of IP addresses. If you are using mobile data you could be anyone, and you can change your broadband IP by disconnecting for half an hour unless you are static
    A lot of internet data mining is done by UserAgent Tracking as your browser discloses a lot of info about your computer's configuration which may be enough yo uniquely identify it.

    You can test your machine's uniqueness fingerprint at the EFF

    https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/
    But in the real world of ordinary users, or even Robert as admin out in California, how does that matter?

    I just ran the routine from your link, and it reveals what version of windows and what browsers I have installed, the details of a few add-ons like pdf viewers that I have, my timezone, my screen size, what fonts I have, that I am using British English, my computer's memory details, plus some more obscure technical aspects of my configuration. Even if it's unique, this data on its own is of no use to anyone (other than perhaps the security services if they were able to come looking for a similarly configured user).
    It might matter to bookmakers or online shops that they can tell it is you, even if you have not logged in or have logged in under a different name.

    ETA and tracking from site to site is used by other social media outlets to serve you adverts based on what you have visited. Don't blame pb when your missus sees that advert for adult sites, unless it is for stepmom porn which often is mentioned here.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    Haven't seen anything else to back it up, but just now from an Ukrainian MP..

    Lesia Vasylenko
    @lesiavasylenko
    Germany 🇩🇪 to impose embargo on #Russia oil and gas. Better late than never. Thanks for waking up!
    https://twitter.com/lesiavasylenko/status/1506561229749428230

    They're going to cut off the gas? Does that mean they have enough in storage now? Big news if true.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited March 2022

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    'Habib' is the adjective form of the verb حب (love). Suffixing ي ('habibi') makes it genitive construction so the literal translation is 'my beloved'. Although there is no intimation of intimacy or emotional attachment as would be associated with that phrase in English.

    Best used sparingly.
    Gràidh is I think similar in Scottish Gaelic, ie horny handed blokes in the pub will use it with each other.
    Heard 'pet' used like that in the North East.
    Hinny is more common these days.
    It is honey, but used as all purpose, even with bare acquaintances. Although not with strangers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2022
    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Except ordinary people in Jamaica seem to be supportive of the monarchy.
    If 55% want to remove the monarchy then does that mean 55% of the country is an unaccountable, remote elite?
    Most of the non white majority Commonwealth removed the British monarch as head of state decades ago, just the Caribbean finally catching up. No real surprise.

    We should focus our efforts on keeping the white majority Commonwealth of mainly British origin as Commonwealth realms ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In Australia for instance 55% voted to keep the monarchy in 1999
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On Jamaica, there is a clear majority for Jamaica becoming a Republic:

    https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/55-of-respondents-say-the-queen-must-go_200465

    55% Republic, 30% Queen to remain HoS, 15% don't know/care.

    Poll from 2 years ago. Given it is non white, non British origin majority unlike say Australia or Canada or New Zealand hardly that surprising and realistically those are the only nations we can keep as Commonwealth realms going forward even if they stay in the Commonwealth.

    Though 55% is hardly a landslide
    What's the point of a White-only Commonwealth? Aussies and NZers and Canadians have their own independent views, and losing the other Commonwealth members is a disastrous blow to what some like to call soft power.
    The vast majority of Commonwealth nations are already Republics or have their own heads of state. I was talking Commonwealth realms.

    We will not be losing them from the Commonwealth, Barbados is staying in the Commonwealth too. Jamaica is tiny and will have zero impact on our soft power whether a Commonwealth realm or not. The vast majority of the population of the remaining Commonwealth realms live in white majority nations of mainly British origin ie Australia, Canada and New Zealand and will likely continue to do so.

    Australia itself voted 55% to keep the monarchy in 1999, in Canada both Trudeau and the Conservatives are monarchists
    "British". You're forgetting the Irish in Australia. And 2022 is not 1999, sill less so when HMtQ moves on.

    In any case, the Commonwealth is nothing to do with royalty.
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    A little hint: whenever an anonymous person on the Internet says something like: " I just can't expose someone close in Westminster," then I tend to think of them as either a walt or a bullshitter.
    That does not give them much of a chance if it is your default? I am guessing a lot of people use this website because they have a big interest in politics. There must be a stack of people on here with connections in parliaments - politicians, civil servants for example. I can well imagine that with data mining these days it could put some people in a very sticky position.

    A lot has changed in this world since the days of Walter Mitty and the internet exposes us in ways that may be we should all be more careful about.
    Yes, but if you have such a connection, it's best to keep quiet about it. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority that cannot be challenged. "Of course I know more because I am connected. I just can't tell you how..."

    But you also get an impression about people. For instance, Roger and MM evidently 'know' the film/media industry, so if they talk about people they've met and know, I treat is as reliable.
    I am guessing the difference is that on a political betting site they fear exposing someone which would not be the same as anyone posting about film or media on here?

    Mr Cummings was really ruthless in firing people & if you get the wrong side of Boris Johnson you are likely to be shown the door very fast. Hasn't Henry Newman run into a lot of trouble lately?

    I am guessing that unless this Heathener person is constantly trying to name drop or give inside privvy information which would be super annoying then they are simply wanting not to expose a contact? That seems reasonable but hey what do I know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr HYUFD,

    "Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took."

    Too late, last time I was in Copenhagen, I told a few amused Danes they were forgiven. Not so sure about the Italians, though.

    As for Tony apologising for the Irish famine, I'm sure some of my great-great grandfathers will appreciate the apology from some of my other great-great grandfathers. If they were still alive.

    Didnt Nicola recently say sorry for burning witches?
    More nuanced than that. But translated into PBTory speak, yes.
    Of course (some) Tory types actually in Scotland seemed able to appreciate the nuance unlike those further afield. As ever, distance lends incomprehension.


    Oh, that's impressive from Mr Dunlop.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    A gentlman called Carl Scott, a former UK defence attache in Moscow, has written a letter to the Financial Times.

    https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1506539085669748744

    In short the evidence was clear about the threat of Putin. We didn't act because of the city.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    On the face of it, the Renault decision to resume car production in Russia looks at an absolute disgrace. There are a couple of things about it I really don't get:
    1. The cars being produced are by a company that Renault has a controlling stake in, as it does with Nissan) and which makes cars for domestic consumption in Russia. So to what extent could Renault have practically prevented the resumption of manufacture?
    2. Given that the cars are for domestic consumption and will be sold in Roubles, how does Renault benefit financially from the resumption? Any transfer of money out of Russia is to all intents and purposes impossible and, if it wasn't, the collapse of the Rouble would surely make transfers pointless.
    What am I missing here?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    with inflation at least 6.2%

    I wonder where this leaves Johnson's pre-election promise to maintain defence spending increases at 0.5% above inflation.

    He couldn't have been... lying... could he?
    Ah..welll...bluster...hmmmm....ahhhh.....[aide whispers in his ear] we meant 0.5% above the rate of inflation *at the time we were speaking* [huge fuck you smirk, sweep of the tousled locks]
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    MattW said:

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
    Are we being too generous calling this a "PR stunt"?
    No. It was a major initiative - independent movement, not a SG thing. Have a look at their websites, very impressive research and presentation. It's made a lot of people here reassess their local history.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited March 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On Jamaica, there is a clear majority for Jamaica becoming a Republic:

    https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/55-of-respondents-say-the-queen-must-go_200465

    55% Republic, 30% Queen to remain HoS, 15% don't know/care.

    Poll from 2 years ago. Given it is non white, non British origin majority unlike say Australia or Canada or New Zealand hardly that surprising and realistically those are the only nations we can keep as Commonwealth realms going forward even if they stay in the Commonwealth.

    Though 55% is hardly a landslide
    What's the point of a White-only Commonwealth? Aussies and NZers and Canadians have their own independent views, and losing the other Commonwealth members is a disastrous blow to what some like to call soft power.
    The vast majority of Commonwealth nations are already Republics or have their own heads of state. I was talking Commonwealth realms.

    We will not be losing them from the Commonwealth, Barbados is staying in the Commonwealth too. Jamaica is tiny and will have zero impact on our soft power whether a Commonwealth realm or not. The vast majority of the population of the remaining Commonwealth realms live in white majority nations of mainly British origin ie Australia, Canada and New Zealand and will likely continue to do so.

    Australia itself voted 55% to keep the monarchy in 1999, in Canada both Trudeau and the Conservatives are monarchists
    "British". You're forgetting the Irish in Australia. And 2022 is not 1999, sill less so when HMtQ moves on.

    In any case, the Commonwealth is nothing to do with royalty.
    Some of them Northern Irish. The majority of Australians have British or Northern Irish ancestry still.

    It does not matter if it is 2032, or 2092, culturally, Canada, Australia and New Zealand will still be closer to the UK than any other nations on earth.

    The Commonwealth realms are still to do with royalty

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
    Oh, I've no doubt they'd do it if they thought it could further their war on woke, but I don't see how it would. Look at the squawking from some of their natural supporters on here at it happening in another country.

    What BJ & co would really like is the Guardian and/or Labour to start a campaign so they could point and guffaw.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On Jamaica, there is a clear majority for Jamaica becoming a Republic:

    https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/55-of-respondents-say-the-queen-must-go_200465

    55% Republic, 30% Queen to remain HoS, 15% don't know/care.

    Poll from 2 years ago. Given it is non white, non British origin majority unlike say Australia or Canada or New Zealand hardly that surprising and realistically those are the only nations we can keep as Commonwealth realms going forward even if they stay in the Commonwealth.

    Though 55% is hardly a landslide
    What's the point of a White-only Commonwealth? Aussies and NZers and Canadians have their own independent views, and losing the other Commonwealth members is a disastrous blow to what some like to call soft power.
    The vast majority of Commonwealth nations are already Republics or have their own heads of state. I was talking Commonwealth realms.

    We will not be losing them from the Commonwealth, Barbados is staying in the Commonwealth too. Jamaica is tiny and will have zero impact on our soft power whether a Commonwealth realm or not. The vast majority of the population of the remaining Commonwealth realms live in white majority nations of mainly British origin ie Australia, Canada and New Zealand and will likely continue to do so.

    Australia itself voted 55% to keep the monarchy in 1999, in Canada both Trudeau and the Conservatives are monarchists
    "British". You're forgetting the Irish in Australia. And 2022 is not 1999, sill less so when HMtQ moves on.

    In any case, the Commonwealth is nothing to do with royalty.
    Some of them Northern Irish. The majority of Australians have British or Northern Irish ancestry still.

    It does not matter if it is 2032, or 2092, culturally, Canada, Australia and New Zealand will still be culturally closer to the UK than any other nations on earth.

    The Commonwealth realms are still to do with royalty

    Ever been to Canada or Australia?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In 2021, we estimate that full-time employees could typically expect to spend around 9.1 times their workplace-based annual earnings on purchasing a home in England. This is a statistically significant increase compared with 2020, when it was 7.9 times their workplace-based annual earnings.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/2021
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
    Oh, I've no doubt they'd do it if they thought it could further their war on woke, but I don't see how it would. Look at the squawking from some of their natural supporters on here at it happening in another country.

    What BJ & co would really like is the Guardian and/or Labour to start a campaign so they could point and guffaw.
    As I noted earlier, the English courts were still doing people for witchcraft in the 1940s.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Except ordinary people in Jamaica seem to be supportive of the monarchy.
    If 55% want to remove the monarchy then does that mean 55% of the country is an unaccountable, remote elite?
    Most of the non white majority Commonwealth removed the British monarch as head of state decades ago, just the Caribbean finally catching up. No real surprise.

    We should focus our efforts on keeping the white majority Commonwealth of mainly British origin as Commonwealth realms ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In Australia for instance 55% voted to keep the monarchy in 1999
    I don't think we should be obsessing too much about whether those countries choose to become republics. Leave it up to them to decide. Any attempt to interfere might backfire and it's a nice contrast to Mr Putin - we don't try to push around our former colonial territories.
  • HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Except ordinary people in Jamaica seem to be supportive of the monarchy.
    If 55% want to remove the monarchy then does that mean 55% of the country is an unaccountable, remote elite?
    Most of the non white majority Commonwealth removed the British monarch as head of state decades ago, just the Caribbean finally catching up. No real surprise.

    We should focus our efforts on keeping the white majority Commonwealth of mainly British origin as Commonwealth realms ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In Australia for instance 55% voted to keep the monarchy in 1999
    Why on earth should we "focus our efforts" on anything?

    If Canada want to retain the Queen as titular head of state, that's fine. If they want to move to another approach, that's also fine - it's their country. It's got absolutely sod all to do with us, and there's no reason whatsoever for even the most ardent British monarchist to push it on other countries.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s.

    Heathener said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile I'm delighted to see that Jamaica could be on the road to republicanism.

    It comes as a shock to many in this country that we built much of our wealth and success by invading countries, crushing people, stealing their land and their produce and selling their people into slavery. Vladimir Putin has nothing on the British empire.

    Reparations are due and the tide has rightly turned.

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-and-kate-jamaican-protester-says-couple-benefitting-from-her-great-great-grandparents-blood-tears-and-sweat-12572878

    What a load of rubbish.

    Nobody alive in Britain today was involved in slavery and we abolished slavery well before most European Empires, the Arab States and USA did.
    There will be no reparations.

    Otherwise we might as well claim reparations from Denmark for Viking raids and from Italy for the slaves the Romans took

    I always gave Heathener the benefit of the doubt but I suspect, given the continual deliberately contrary positions, others may be correct. Not that she’s a Russian mole, just a wind up.
    Thank you for finally accepting that I am not a Russian mole or a troll. I happen to mask my IP for very good reasons. I just can't expose someone close in Westminster. They would be instantly identified. As a more general point ever since Cambridge Analytica I would never browse the internet without using a VPN. I always reject ALL cookies: a stupid euphemism if ever there was. Cookies are TRACKERS not some delicious biccies I've baked up on the Aga.

    I can be a wind up, it's true. Not deliberately as such so I'd ask you and others to hear me out.

    First, apart from the occasional seemingly off-beam pov like believing we should back Zelensky and stand up to this bastard Putin with a NFZ (it's a point of view, please everyone get over it), I'm pretty consistently left of centre. But not in a traditional Labour way. I'm anti-capitalist but not anti-semitic and I loathe oligarchies and abuses of power wherever they occur: some of the worst offenders in history have been from the Left. Actually there's probably no 'some' about it.
    If you really wanted to pigeon hold me then perhaps anarchist is the best adjective. And that's what makes me seem contrary. I am BITTERLY opposed to much of modern society. I hate most capitalist companies and I'm trying to live more and more off-grid in my attitudes and behaviour. And I'm a globalist not a nationalist. Religion and nationhood are responsible for most of the evils of the world as far as I'm concerned.

    Second, even if you didn't wish to accept any of that, as a more general point this site would be much the poorer and part of a dystopian nightmare if contrary views were not given air. It's really, really, important that in an age of intolerance and binary thinking (Piers Morgan style) we listen to nuance and complexity.

    I don't expect all of you to pay attention to this but I believe you should. And to those who do, thank you.
    p.s. I am extremely heartened this morning by the many hoots of derision about the young royals in the Caribbean and the often disdainful views about the monarchy going forward.

    It has become an object of ridicule and needs reform.
    Except ordinary people in Jamaica seem to be supportive of the monarchy.
    If 55% want to remove the monarchy then does that mean 55% of the country is an unaccountable, remote elite?
    Most of the non white majority Commonwealth removed the British monarch as head of state decades ago, just the Caribbean finally catching up. No real surprise.

    We should focus our efforts on keeping the white majority Commonwealth of mainly British origin as Commonwealth realms ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In Australia for instance 55% voted to keep the monarchy in 1999
    I don't think we should be obsessing too much about whether those countries choose to become republics. Leave it up to them to decide. Any attempt to interfere might backfire and it's a nice contrast to Mr Putin - we don't try to push around our former colonial territories.
    HYUFD is an advocate of going to nuclear war over colonial territories, both former and current.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Roger said:

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    (A little surprising to see it in such close proximity to 'Corbyn')
    In which Roger humbly informs us that he was once a regular visitor to Beirut “and other fashionable Arab cities”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On Jamaica, there is a clear majority for Jamaica becoming a Republic:

    https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/55-of-respondents-say-the-queen-must-go_200465

    55% Republic, 30% Queen to remain HoS, 15% don't know/care.

    Poll from 2 years ago. Given it is non white, non British origin majority unlike say Australia or Canada or New Zealand hardly that surprising and realistically those are the only nations we can keep as Commonwealth realms going forward even if they stay in the Commonwealth.

    Though 55% is hardly a landslide
    What's the point of a White-only Commonwealth? Aussies and NZers and Canadians have their own independent views, and losing the other Commonwealth members is a disastrous blow to what some like to call soft power.
    The vast majority of Commonwealth nations are already Republics or have their own heads of state. I was talking Commonwealth realms.

    We will not be losing them from the Commonwealth, Barbados is staying in the Commonwealth too. Jamaica is tiny and will have zero impact on our soft power whether a Commonwealth realm or not. The vast majority of the population of the remaining Commonwealth realms live in white majority nations of mainly British origin ie Australia, Canada and New Zealand and will likely continue to do so.

    Australia itself voted 55% to keep the monarchy in 1999, in Canada both Trudeau and the Conservatives are monarchists
    "British". You're forgetting the Irish in Australia. And 2022 is not 1999, sill less so when HMtQ moves on.

    In any case, the Commonwealth is nothing to do with royalty.
    Some of them Northern Irish. The majority of Australians have British or Northern Irish ancestry still.

    It does not matter if it is 2032, or 2092, culturally, Canada, Australia and New Zealand will still be culturally closer to the UK than any other nations on earth.

    The Commonwealth realms are still to do with royalty

    Ever been to Canada or Australia?
    77% of Canadians and 86% of Australians are still white and most of them still of British or Northern Irish ancestry

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    If we're to pardon witches from centuries past, does that mean we should be drawing up legal cases against those who committed (centuries ago) deeds that are currently crimes?

    You don't have to do anything in your country afaik. The likelihood of the government of rsoles for whom so many PBers voted instigating such a thing is zero.
    Au contraire - they are likely to do it because it is a public stunt with no blow-back. Their own supporters will grumble about the "woke brigade" but they will continue to vote blindly for their Party even if it cook babies and serves them for breakfast.
    Are we being too generous calling this a "PR stunt"?
    No. It was a major initiative - independent movement, not a SG thing. Have a look at their websites, very impressive research and presentation. It's made a lot of people here reassess their local history.
    I think it is about time the Danes made some apologies for the atrocities under Danelaw. And those marauding Highlanders for what they did to peaceful farmers in the border regions, and what about the Romans and the Mongols. Blimey there are a lot of opportunities for non-apologies that modern politicians can make for things that had nothing to do with them. On the other hand, on the things that they do have direct responsibility for they are strangely tight lipped.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2022

    On the face of it, the Renault decision to resume car production in Russia looks at an absolute disgrace. There are a couple of things about it I really don't get:
    1. The cars being produced are by a company that Renault has a controlling stake in, as it does with Nissan) and which makes cars for domestic consumption in Russia. So to what extent could Renault have practically prevented the resumption of manufacture?
    2. Given that the cars are for domestic consumption and will be sold in Roubles, how does Renault benefit financially from the resumption? Any transfer of money out of Russia is to all intents and purposes impossible and, if it wasn't, the collapse of the Rouble would surely make transfers pointless.
    What am I missing here?

    Well the best I can think of is that the re-starting production of cars for domestic consumption consumes resources (steel, rubber, electronic components etc etc etc) which will/are/may be in increasingly short supply. So instead of production lines laying idle with those resources being able to find their way to manufacturers making things which slaughter civilians, then the Russians have Renaults instead. And as your average Renault falls apart quicker than your average Russian truck, then maybe there's no harm done?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    dixiedean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    @NickPalmer told us yesterday that he agreed with Ange that Corbyn would have sent weapons to Ukraine, like Johnson did, before the invasion.

    How can he possibly believe it?

    habibi
    @habibi_uk
    From the "Stop the War" statement Corbyn signed in February:

    "Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns."

    https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1506359255825358853

    'Habibi' is a wonderful Arabic greeting that the trendies in Beirut and other fashionable Arab cities use to address each other and visitors like me. I think it's roughly used as an American would use 'Honey!'

    'Habib' is the adjective form of the verb حب (love). Suffixing ي ('habibi') makes it genitive construction so the literal translation is 'my beloved'. Although there is no intimation of intimacy or emotional attachment as would be associated with that phrase in English.

    Best used sparingly.
    Gràidh is I think similar in Scottish Gaelic, ie horny handed blokes in the pub will use it with each other.
    Heard 'pet' used like that in the North East.
    Hinny is more common these days.
    It is honey, but used as all purpose, even with bare acquaintances. Although not with strangers.
    Indeed; as in 'Keep y're feet still, Geordie hinny, let's be happy thru the night'.
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