(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
Who has shown 'performative disregard for animal welfare' on here?
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
WTF are you on about, "performative disregard." Do they kick dogs to death in the streets in your parts? and have an exemption from our literally, for once, world leading agriculture animal welfare standards?
And you are saying that an action was justified because although it entailed the possibility of brown people being tortured to death, because it saved the face of a tory government? I am trying to read your post ironically and coming up with nothing
And btw if he had quietly shot or euthanased the lot who would ever have known? he would have kept quiet as the grave, because the last thing anyone making a living out of the "rescue" racket dares to admit is that they ever hasten their charges on their way to doggie heaven. nothing dries up the donations quite so effectively.
The RSPCA kill animals on an epic scale. And still manage to get more money in their collecting tins.....
Russia isn't going to invade Finland, the terrain and defenses would make the current Ukrainian war look like their repelling of Napoleon.
Certainly, the experience of the Winter War would not seem to make it propitious from a Russian POV.
It's just if Ukraine goes even worse, why not expand the war and distract? "It's all an evil Western plot to surround and subvert us." Might be better to go down that way. And he may think he can draw West into the negotiations with the threat of a pulverised Helsinki to look forward to. Or something. Who knows how a cornered rat thinks in extremity?"
I don't think Finland's membership of the EU would make much difference TBH. Might even make it a more attractive proposition to a crazed dictator.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
WTF are you on about, "performative disregard." Do they kick dogs to death in the streets in your parts? and have an exemption from our literally, for once, world leading agriculture animal welfare standards?
And you are saying that an action was justified because although it entailed the possibility of brown people being tortured to death, because it saved the face of a tory government? I am trying to read your post ironically and coming up with nothing
And btw if he had quietly shot or euthanased the lot who would ever have known? he would have kept quiet as the grave, because the last thing anyone making a living out of the "rescue" racket dares to admit is that they ever hasten their charges on their way to doggie heaven. nothing dries up the donations quite so effectively.
The RSPCA kill animals on an epic scale. And still manage to get more money in their collecting tins.....
NEW: A second Foreign Office whistleblower claims it was 'widespread knowledge' in Whitehall crisis centre that Boris Johnson made decision to extract Nowzad staff from Kabul last summer.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
Exactly the samepeople complaining about what happened would also be complaining if that had happened - "heartless to strand beloved pets", and all that.
Not would. The same people were complaining.
Scott was loving posting all Farthing's Tweets etc bashing the government and people saying how heartless they were being for not getting involved.
Now he's spun on a penny farthing to be doing the opposite.
All in a day's work for Scott.
Just as well Scott isn't Prime Minister, then. The fact is that for some reason NOWZAD staff/animals were prioritised over, say, interpreters. As has been well documented (h/t @Ishmael_Z ) the effort this logistical (ie not the planes themselves but the effort around the evacuation) required meant that others couldn't be evacuated.
The PM said he had nothing to do with it and it now appears that he did have something to do with it.
So the PM is lying which I appreciate falls into the does the pope have a balcony category but it would be nice to think that people still care. Especially politically geeky people on PB but you don't so fair enough.
Nor does Scott, he's just shitposting apu.
Again, I don't care. The issue is whether the PM lied or not.
I will let people argue over whether it was best to save Mr Whiskerson over an interpreter; I have my views, as no doubt, do you. But that is not germane to the issue.
About the only thing I can tell from that video is that it was not obviously trailing any fuel or other large items, so it's possible it was substantially intact when it hit. But even that could have missed parts of the plane falling off, e.g. stabiliser or engine.
Fair enough, in this instance I am educated by you. Thanks. I was following speculation on Twitter which echoed my thoughts: how can a plane ever end up falling vertically like a missile. What would do that?!
But if you assure me it can happen, so be it
By the way we have no verification of that grainy 2nd hand video, so we’re not even sure it DID fall vertically
This is you all over and hence why you get yourself into a tizzy.
1. Event happens or might have happened. 2. You find some random twitter feed which shows that Event happened for ABC reason 3. ABC is the very worst possible thing that could happen and presages the end of the world. 4. You **** yourself all over PB.
I would sit back and wait for more information if I were you. Just for the sake of your old ticker.
But I’d barely post at all if I followed your absurd advice to avoid hasty, irresponsible, hysterical over-reaction! What a ridiculous idea!!!
You’re completely INSANE and you should be on ANTI-PSYCHOTICS, you gibbering MADMAN
That's a climb down on Leon's part in my book.
If whatever failed at the top of the descent tipped the plane off horizontal and thus affected ability to glide, would we talking about the end of a parabolic descent? Leon, I think, going for the hyperbolic in preference.
Or thinking how paper planes, once stalled, fall from the sky, which is more halt and drop.
Fair point
On the other hand, thanks to ubiquitous cameras, we can now see lots of plane crashes
I’ve never before seen one drop vertically like a missile. But I accept that it happens, albeit rarely?
I know nothing about planes but in this dashcam footage it doesn't look vertical, if it's legit it might just be the angle of the previous thing that makes it look like that.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
Who has shown 'performative disregard for animal welfare' on here?
Tally ho and away.
Might be what our green friend was thinking of.
I can't remember if there was a protest at the BBC when they showed a documentary about a bloke with a pack of terriers who would go and kill rats at farms upon request, that said.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
WTF are you on about, "performative disregard." Do they kick dogs to death in the streets in your parts? and have an exemption from our literally, for once, world leading agriculture animal welfare standards?
And you are saying that an action was justified because although it entailed the possibility of brown people being tortured to death, because it saved the face of a tory government? I am trying to read your post ironically and coming up with nothing
And btw if he had quietly shot or euthanased the lot who would ever have known? he would have kept quiet as the grave, because the last thing anyone making a living out of the "rescue" racket dares to admit is that they ever hasten their charges on their way to doggie heaven. nothing dries up the donations quite so effectively.
The RSPCA kill animals on an epic scale. And still manage to get more money in their collecting tins.....
And are completely inactive (as are LACS) on the issue of illegal hare coursing, because like so many "animal welfare" organisations (aka animal rights activists), and many rural police forces they are frightened to death of the people that do it.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
Who has shown 'performative disregard for animal welfare' on here?
Tally ho and away.
Might be what our green friend was thinking of.
I can't remember if there was a protest at the BBC when they showed a documentary about a bloke with a pack of terriers who would go and kill rats at farms upon request, that said.
Then you are very selective about what you refer to as 'performative disregard'. How about fishermen, for instance? Fish have feelings too...
NEW: A second Foreign Office whistleblower claims it was 'widespread knowledge' in Whitehall crisis centre that Boris Johnson made decision to extract Nowzad staff from Kabul last summer.
Scott, with all due respect, with all that's happening right now, do you think anyone gives a flying f**k about dogs or cats being flown right now?
You're like a dog with a bone, but there's more important things happening.
Fail. The dogs and cats are the numerator, so don't pretend they are the denominator
Our fat PM endangered and probably ended the lives of actual people, to fly some doggies about, to keep Ilse indoors happy, and has lied about it and caused the Defence Secretary to lie about it and for lies to be told to a Select committee. But whatever.
Indeed, whatever.
This country is a nation of animal lovers, its bizarre but people do seem to often like animals more than "actual people".
When I was at Uni I used to regularly collect money for charity in tins, a different charity each weekend, and you'd get far more generosity from people for animal-based charities than people-based ones.
Its never made sense to me, but people always seem to be like that.
Yeah. Anthropomorphism is a thing.
Quite a few people in conservation are frustrated how much money is spent on pet charities rather than helping to protect biodiversity. God knows how much is spent on donkey sanctuaries. "They'd be better off turned into dogfood."
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
Who has shown 'performative disregard for animal welfare' on here?
Tally ho and away.
Might be what our green friend was thinking of.
I can't remember if there was a protest at the BBC when they showed a documentary about a bloke with a pack of terriers who would go and kill rats at farms upon request, that said.
Well, even in the days of live quarry, a day's hunting consisted of 100 horses and 40 dogs doing what they like best. and probably say 70 humans doing the same vs 30 thinking god I am too old/poor/frightened for this shit, please God let me lose a shoe so I can go home." vs 1 or 2 head of vermin having their day slightly spoiled. Not seeing a net deficit here.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
Who has shown 'performative disregard for animal welfare' on here?
Tally ho and away.
Might be what our green friend was thinking of.
I can't remember if there was a protest at the BBC when they showed a documentary about a bloke with a pack of terriers who would go and kill rats at farms upon request, that said.
Then you are very selective about what you refer to as 'performative disregard'. How about fishermen, for instance? Fish have feelings too...
Oh don't get me wrong I am all for a relativism as regards animal welfare (fish vs rats vs foxes vs fruit flies vs etc).
Just that as (he was at one time an active) anti, I'm sure Dura was referring to the various chats about foxhunting on here. Which again is his right to do. And some of which are what could be described as performative, if not particularly numerous or indulged in by many on PB.
NEW: A second Foreign Office whistleblower claims it was 'widespread knowledge' in Whitehall crisis centre that Boris Johnson made decision to extract Nowzad staff from Kabul last summer.
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
Exactly the samepeople complaining about what happened would also be complaining if that had happened - "heartless to strand beloved pets", and all that.
Not would. The same people were complaining.
Scott was loving posting all Farthing's Tweets etc bashing the government and people saying how heartless they were being for not getting involved.
Now he's spun on a penny farthing to be doing the opposite.
All in a day's work for Scott.
Just as well Scott isn't Prime Minister, then. The fact is that for some reason NOWZAD staff/animals were prioritised over, say, interpreters. As has been well documented (h/t @Ishmael_Z ) the effort this logistical (ie not the planes themselves but the effort around the evacuation) required meant that others couldn't be evacuated.
The PM said he had nothing to do with it and it now appears that he did have something to do with it.
So the PM is lying which I appreciate falls into the does the pope have a balcony category but it would be nice to think that people still care. Especially politically geeky people on PB but you don't so fair enough.
Nor does Scott, he's just shitposting apu.
Again, I don't care. The issue is whether the PM lied or not.
I will let people argue over whether it was best to save Mr Whiskerson over an interpreter; I have my views, as no doubt, do you. But that is not germane to the issue.
But it isn't symmetrical. Interpreter/teacher = torture and death, dog warden = fine, carry on, in taliban think.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
I don't think the percentage of graduates is all that important. When I was at university in the '80's fewer than 12% of school pupils went onto university. Now it's almost 50%. So age is a huge factor in voting intention. It has been that way for many, many years. What is more recent is Labour's abandonment of the values of the British working class.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
There isn't actually a surfeit of secure sites to store it giving the MoD's mania for selling real estate (except any of its 17 golf courses) but, yes, that would be an excellent proposal.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
There isn't actually a surfeit of secure sites to store it giving the MoD's mania for selling real estate (except any of its 17 golf courses) but, yes, that would be an excellent proposal.
And turn the golf courses into military bases. Win/win.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
Surely the question is what threats we face as a country, and work from there? In which case it looks like a retrenchment from desert warfare to where we were forty years ago, facing east. Lots of work for the army and air force, not much for the Navy.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
About the only thing I can tell from that video is that it was not obviously trailing any fuel or other large items, so it's possible it was substantially intact when it hit. But even that could have missed parts of the plane falling off, e.g. stabiliser or engine.
Fair enough, in this instance I am educated by you. Thanks. I was following speculation on Twitter which echoed my thoughts: how can a plane ever end up falling vertically like a missile. What would do that?!
But if you assure me it can happen, so be it
By the way we have no verification of that grainy 2nd hand video, so we’re not even sure it DID fall vertically
This is you all over and hence why you get yourself into a tizzy.
1. Event happens or might have happened. 2. You find some random twitter feed which shows that Event happened for ABC reason 3. ABC is the very worst possible thing that could happen and presages the end of the world. 4. You **** yourself all over PB.
I would sit back and wait for more information if I were you. Just for the sake of your old ticker.
But I’d barely post at all if I followed your absurd advice to avoid hasty, irresponsible, hysterical over-reaction! What a ridiculous idea!!!
You’re completely INSANE and you should be on ANTI-PSYCHOTICS, you gibbering MADMAN
That's a climb down on Leon's part in my book.
If whatever failed at the top of the descent tipped the plane off horizontal and thus affected ability to glide, would we talking about the end of a parabolic descent? Leon, I think, going for the hyperbolic in preference.
Or thinking how paper planes, once stalled, fall from the sky, which is more halt and drop.
Fair point
On the other hand, thanks to ubiquitous cameras, we can now see lots of plane crashes
I’ve never before seen one drop vertically like a missile. But I accept that it happens, albeit rarely?
I know nothing about planes but in this dashcam footage it doesn't look vertical, if it's legit it might just be the angle of the previous thing that makes it look like that.
In any case, it depends where one is viewing it from. Any sloping descent, if it does not deviate laterally, will seem vertical to observers in two different directions (at 180deg to each other.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
Not the least of the Nazis' stupidities is that large numbers of Slavs fufuill their Aryan ideal, being blonde haired, with blue, grey, or green eyes. Many Soviet women snipers could have been poster girls for the Third Reich, had they been German.
Not poster girls for German sniping obvs as the ladies were expected to concentrate on Haus und Küche. It’s always seemed an oddity to me that one area of the ‘war’ effort that the Nazis embraced participation by women was the camps.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
About the only thing I can tell from that video is that it was not obviously trailing any fuel or other large items, so it's possible it was substantially intact when it hit. But even that could have missed parts of the plane falling off, e.g. stabiliser or engine.
Fair enough, in this instance I am educated by you. Thanks. I was following speculation on Twitter which echoed my thoughts: how can a plane ever end up falling vertically like a missile. What would do that?!
But if you assure me it can happen, so be it
By the way we have no verification of that grainy 2nd hand video, so we’re not even sure it DID fall vertically
This is you all over and hence why you get yourself into a tizzy.
1. Event happens or might have happened. 2. You find some random twitter feed which shows that Event happened for ABC reason 3. ABC is the very worst possible thing that could happen and presages the end of the world. 4. You **** yourself all over PB.
I would sit back and wait for more information if I were you. Just for the sake of your old ticker.
But I’d barely post at all if I followed your absurd advice to avoid hasty, irresponsible, hysterical over-reaction! What a ridiculous idea!!!
You’re completely INSANE and you should be on ANTI-PSYCHOTICS, you gibbering MADMAN
That's a climb down on Leon's part in my book.
If whatever failed at the top of the descent tipped the plane off horizontal and thus affected ability to glide, would we talking about the end of a parabolic descent? Leon, I think, going for the hyperbolic in preference.
Or thinking how paper planes, once stalled, fall from the sky, which is more halt and drop.
Fair point
On the other hand, thanks to ubiquitous cameras, we can now see lots of plane crashes
I’ve never before seen one drop vertically like a missile. But I accept that it happens, albeit rarely?
I know nothing about planes but in this dashcam footage it doesn't look vertical, if it's legit it might just be the angle of the previous thing that makes it look like that.
In any case, it depends where one is viewing it from. Any sloping descent, if it does not deviate laterally, will seem vertical to observers in two different directions (at 180deg to each other.
Indeed. Apparently air traffic control often get reports of "UFOs" hovering someplace or other, and it always turns out to be a well identified civilian plane flying directly toward the observer.
On the arcane subject of the article on voting and educational attainment, from a standing start if the statistics are correct the good people of Bootle should be all over the Tories, and Arundel should be waving the red flag on Stalin's birthday.
As this is not the case there must be a number of other factors in play. Labour hold no seats at all in the less densely populated parts of the south, where educational attainment is much higher than most of the north. Why?
I don't think the percentage of graduates is all that important. When I was at university in the '80's fewer than 12% of school pupils went onto university. Now it's almost 50%. So age is a huge factor in voting intention. It has been that way for many, many years. What is more recent is Labour's abandonment of the values of the British working class.
In 2019 Labour did better with those earning £40 000 to £69 999 where it got 35% than with those earning under £20 000 where it got 34%.
The first time ever Labour had failed to do best with the poorest voters. Though obviously Brexit was key
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
BJ and his band of gypsy haters are missing a trick. Surely a flood of freedom loving Ukrainians would provide doughty fighters in Project Brexit and the war against the EU.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
It'll not be long before the only sensible thing is to keep the Red Arrows and the Horses, and get rid of everything else.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
There isn't actually a surfeit of secure sites to store it giving the MoD's mania for selling real estate (except any of its 17 golf courses) but, yes, that would be an excellent proposal.
What's wrong with using Boxer off the shelf instead of messing around with Ajax? I've not been keeping up but can only assume MoD doesn't want to admit the Germans are better at the (wheeled) panzer business than UK plc. Or maybe less in the way of sweeties such as directorships.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
It'll not be long before the only sensible thing is to keep the Red Arrows and the Horses, and get rid of everything else.
The UK continues to live rent-free in the Kremlin's head:
Channel One has finally responded to Marina Ovsyannikova’s on-air protest.
Kirill Kleimyonov, head of the news division, accuses her of being a British spy.
He said she has “betrayed [her] country and all of us … coldly, duplicitously, for a bonus.”
“Treason is always someone’s personal choice … But you need to call things like they are. If they had called the well known deed in exchange for 30 pieces of silver an act of passion, world history would have gone very differently.”
I don't think the percentage of graduates is all that important. When I was at university in the '80's fewer than 12% of school pupils went onto university. Now it's almost 50%. So age is a huge factor in voting intention. It has been that way for many, many years. What is more recent is Labour's abandonment of the values of the British working class.
What is your perception of the values of the working class?
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
The sort of claims that need linkies to back them up. What are the normal variances in those regions at this time of year? it sounds bad, but it is like someone obsessing that 'all our power today was generated by renewables!!!' without mentioning the days they are not.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
The sort of claims that need linkies to back them up. What are the normal variances in those regions at this time of year? it sounds bad, but it is like someone obsessing that 'all our power today was generated by renewables!!!' without mentioning the days they are not.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
40°C above normal? What temperatures are they exactly? That much would be catastrophic anywhere.
Then near the South Pole, Antarctica weather stations recorded record-setting highs this week. Temperatures hit 10 degrees (-12.2 degrees Celsius) Friday – 70 degrees above normal – at the Concordia station, which is two miles above sea level.
That same day temperatures hit 0 degrees at the even-higher Vostok station, beating the all-time record by about 27 degrees, according to a tweet from Maximiliano Herrera, a climatologist and extreme weather record tracker.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
The sort of claims that need linkies to back them up. What are the normal variances in those regions at this time of year? it sounds bad, but it is like someone obsessing that 'all our power today was generated by renewables!!!' without mentioning the days they are not.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
The sort of claims that need linkies to back them up. What are the normal variances in those regions at this time of year? it sounds bad, but it is like someone obsessing that 'all our power today was generated by renewables!!!' without mentioning the days they are not.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
Indeed. I'm not sure anywhere on Earth has a 40 or even 30 degree variance from normal any time much. Assuming he's right that is something to be noted.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
There isn't actually a surfeit of secure sites to store it giving the MoD's mania for selling real estate (except any of its 17 golf courses) but, yes, that would be an excellent proposal.
What's wrong with using Boxer off the shelf instead of messing around with Ajax? I've not been keeping up but can only assume MoD doesn't want to admit the Germans are better at the (wheeled) panzer business than UK plc. Or maybe less in the way of sweeties such as directorships.
Anther issue is absurd lists of requirements that are utterly unique to the UK. Such as the insistence on retaining rifled barrels for tank guns because of HESH. Even after FN demonstrated a finned projectile from a smoothbore which could do HESH
Russia bombs a shopping centre in Kyiv. Looks like they are going for economic vandalism on a massive scale before any ceasefire happens. "If we can't have it, you can't either"....
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
The sort of claims that need linkies to back them up. What are the normal variances in those regions at this time of year? it sounds bad, but it is like someone obsessing that 'all our power today was generated by renewables!!!' without mentioning the days they are not.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
(Of course Pen Farthing should have been advised to either shoot his animals or set them free to fend for themselves - something dogs and cats are quite capable of doing - and report to the airport with his staff. Or fuck off and die.)
That would have been a political catastrophe for the government. Bear in mind most British people like animals (particularly relative to people from Afghanistan) and don't go in for the performative disregard for animal welfare that's common on here.
This is one occasion when Johnson actually got it right and the subsequent lying about it is exactly what you'd expect.
Who has shown 'performative disregard for animal welfare' on here?
Tally ho and away.
Might be what our green friend was thinking of.
I can't remember if there was a protest at the BBC when they showed a documentary about a bloke with a pack of terriers who would go and kill rats at farms upon request, that said.
Well, even in the days of live quarry, a day's hunting consisted of 100 horses and 40 dogs doing what they like best. and probably say 70 humans doing the same vs 30 thinking god I am too old/poor/frightened for this shit, please God let me lose a shoe so I can go home." vs 1 or 2 head of vermin having their day slightly spoiled. Not seeing a net deficit here.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
40°C above normal? What temperatures are they exactly? That much would be catastrophic anywhere.
Then near the South Pole, Antarctica weather stations recorded record-setting highs this week. Temperatures hit 10 degrees (-12.2 degrees Celsius) Friday – 70 degrees above normal – at the Concordia station, which is two miles above sea level.
That same day temperatures hit 0 degrees at the even-higher Vostok station, beating the all-time record by about 27 degrees, according to a tweet from Maximiliano Herrera, a climatologist and extreme weather record tracker.
I was quite enjoying (for want of a better word) following the financial war using the proxy of the GBP:RUB exchange rate. But this seems to have been static for the last week or so. Has the Ruble been suspended on international exchanges? (I don't even know if such a thing is possible.) What are the implications of this?
The ruble is now what in my day in the city used to be referred to euphemistically as 'an exotic currency', i.e., nobody bloody wants it at any price. Even its current nominal price is pretty nuch artificial because if for some insane reason you wanted to buy some and were prepared to give up some hard currency to do so you would be knocked over in the rush of punters willing to give you way above the official rate.
Of course if you went into a Moscow bank and tried to change $100 into rubles they would be only too pleased to accommodate you at the official rate (1/105 as I type) but would be puzzled as to why you didn't turn to the man behind you in the queue to get about three times as much for your buck.
In short, the ruble is worthless and the official rate is unlikely to change much now because it can't get much more worthless.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
Josie Stewart, who has 15 years experience including two years at the embassy in Kabul says:
"I feel a strong sense of moral injury for having been part of something so badly managed, and so focused on managing reputational risk & political fallout rather than the actual crisis" https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1505862862547427331
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
I didn't know the Armed Forces were part of the tourist industry ... and as for the good Mr Reagan, isn't that pony he is on one of HMtQ's stable, rather than the HC?
The Arrows fly the Hawk T1 which is now effectively obsolete in normal service use (I believe the remaining ones used for operational training, testing, etc. will be scrapped this year apart from odd ones for trials/expoeriments). It's the Hawk T2 that is the trainer now. So the Raff is going to be keeping going for another decade or so with an increasingly useless jet just for pretty smoke signals. I wonder if it can still carry a gun and AAMs like it used to? But I wouldn't like to fly a bright red jet in combat. A whole squadron of crews too. The FAA don't even operate their historic flight any more - never mind a whole aerobatic squadron. Am I misunderstanding anything?
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Normally the Antarctic interior is cut off from poleward heat transport because of the strength of the polar circulation. One effect of the ozone hole was to strengthen that circulation - and that might have been one reason why the Antarctic didn't match the warming seen in the Arctic.
This appears to be changing as the ozone hole recovers. So we might expect to see very rapid warming in Antarctica as it catches up with the warming seen in the Arctic.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
I doubt if a third would have collaborated, but the proportion would not have been negligible. There would be the Jew haters, the psychopaths, the criminals, and as you say, those who toady to people in authority. And even perhaps, a handful of relatively decent people who made bad choices, like the protagonist of It Happened Here.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
30°C above normal in the Arctic today. 40°C above normal in the Antarctic today. It would be unbelievable if it were not true. And it is terrifying beyond words. The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
The sort of claims that need linkies to back them up. What are the normal variances in those regions at this time of year? it sounds bad, but it is like someone obsessing that 'all our power today was generated by renewables!!!' without mentioning the days they are not.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
Arctic Sea Ice News from NSIDC also shows monthly averages of temperature anomalies if you want something more convincing than a temperature record on one day.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
the idea it will never be over is absurd as a closer relationship will evolve to the satisfaction of most
The Brexiteers fought against the EU for 30 years.
The notion that Brexit will be forgotten is absurd
This was my full comment to you and it stands
I do genuinely feel sorry for your trauma over brexit, but as much as you demonstrate your angst the idea it will never be over is absurd as a closer relationship will evolve to the satisfaction of most when I do hope you will be able to move on but if not that is your choice
Hold on.
You are (understandably and rightly) quick to criticise those who link politics to mental illness.
Except about Brexit, where you do it all the time.
It's democracy. The whole point is that debates are never over, however uncongenial you find that.
You make a very good point. The point scoring over Ukraine versus our EX European partners is actually nauseous as is the chauvinism which is non stop evident on this site. One of the great pleasures of being in France is that as far as I can tell they're not treating it like a sporting event where the competitors aren't even the Russians and the Ukrainians but the Euro countries versus the UK.
The same four or five posters chuntering on daily about the great success of the BRITISH EFFORT makes you realise quite how parochial the UK is and probably always will be. It's why the EU are almost certainly better off without us.
But Roger, you constantly treat it like a competition, and you are constantly highlighting the deficiencies of our own politicians vs. the tailored elegance of their continental counterparts. But when it's the UK who appears to be having the best of things, you instantly switch to 'It's not a competition you know!!'.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
Not the least of the Nazis' stupidities is that large numbers of Slavs fufuill their Aryan ideal, being blonde haired, with blue, grey, or green eyes. Many Soviet women snipers could have been poster girls for the Third Reich, had they been German.
The Slavs weren't quite as beyond the pale as the Jews were they? I think the Nazis were at times prepared to tolerate them so long as they joined in the fight against Bolshevism.
The Germans didn’t just tolerate blonde blue eyed Slavs. They coveted them
One of the enormous but lesser known crimes of WW2 was Germanys policy of stealing - literally stealing - “Aryan-looking” children in Poland and elsewhere. The kids were then given to childless German couples
The tragedy of this still echoes down the decades. 200,000 kids were taken
It varied. Albert Forster simply declared that all the Poles in the region he administered were ethnic Germans, who could therefore remain. Artur Grieser, who was disgusting even by Nazi standards, mainly expelled them to the General Government. Wilhelm Kube, who administered Minsk, was entranced by all the local blonde-haired women, and took many of them into his bed. One of them assassinated him by disguising an anti-personnel mine as a hot water bottle.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
I didn't know the Armed Forces were part of the tourist industry ... and as for the good Mr Reagan, isn't that pony he is on one of HMtQ's stable, rather than the HC?
If you consider that just about every country has a ceremonial element, for good PR, historical, recruitment and retention, yes tourist reasons among others then the UK having a ceremonial element which includes donkeys is not the great crime you think it might be.
HC(av, btw) have their horses, the Micks have their wolfhound, the fusiliers their goat, and so on; many of the Scottish regiments don't even wear trousers on parade I mean how impractical is that and many if not most other regiments prance around in funny looking uniforms that would be out of place in, say, Estonia right now.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
Josie Stewart, who has 15 years experience including two years at the embassy in Kabul says:
"I feel a strong sense of moral injury for having been part of something so badly managed, and so focused on managing reputational risk & political fallout rather than the actual crisis" https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1505862862547427331
She seems to an early 40s high flyer committing professional suicide over this (has just told the committee her ultimate boss deliberately lied to it). She deserves to be listened to.
Has BoZo managed to uninvite himself from the EU summit? Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
interestingly, in 1940 Michael Foot and various leftists in the Home Guard ( not the cuddly Dad's Army idea, but quite a large group of older radicals ) were preparing for 1), and a number of key establishment figures in MI6 - and possibly the Queen Mother, too - were preparing for 3).
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
I didn't know the Armed Forces were part of the tourist industry ... and as for the good Mr Reagan, isn't that pony he is on one of HMtQ's stable, rather than the HC?
The Arrows fly the Hawk T1 which is now effectively obsolete in normal service use (I believe the remaining ones used for operational training, testing, etc. will be scrapped this year apart from odd ones for trials/expoeriments). It's the Hawk T2 that is the trainer now. So the Raff is going to be keeping going for another decade or so with an increasingly useless jet just for pretty smoke signals. I wonder if it can still carry a gun and AAMs like it used to? But I wouldn't like to fly a bright red jet in combat. A whole squadron of crews too. The FAA don't even operate their historic flight any more - never mind a whole aerobatic squadron. Am I misunderstanding anything?
The tory privatised training system fell apart so AJT is now done on Hawk T2 at 4TS and, for some lucky students, on Hawk T1 with its steampunk cockpit at 100 Squadron until they get the chop at the end of this month.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
It's not a static equation. In most of occupied Europe, the initial resisters were the true fanatics, often those who were politically active prior, plus people with various particularly personal reasons to get involved. Their numbers swelled with people on the run, particularly when the Germans started deporting adult males for forced labour in Germany. Once the tide of the war had turned, it became easier to win recruits among the civilian population, and in the final year once the writing was on the wall, very many people wanted a slice of the action, including some who thought it might balance off their previous collaboration.
In the scenario where Britain had fallen, the war would have been going badly for the Allies (their all having lost, excepting the remains of the Empire) and one would expect the pattern to be similar to France in 1940-41. As and when the Americans got involved and began to turn the tide, things would have started to change.
Do the Tories have a strategy to regain the lead yet?
Keep doing stuff where Labour says "Yeah we would have done exactly the same..." Covid, Ukraine.....
That works - until the baggage they are carrying weighs them down more than Labour's clown shoes trip them up.
*If* Labour have dispensed with the clown shoes (always a big if), we are in "Governments lose elections" territory, and those "they're just the same" plays work to the Opposition's advantage.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
I didn't know the Armed Forces were part of the tourist industry ... and as for the good Mr Reagan, isn't that pony he is on one of HMtQ's stable, rather than the HC?
If you consider that just about every country has a ceremonial element, for good PR, historical, recruitment and retention, yes tourist reasons among others then the UK having a ceremonial element which includes donkeys is not the great crime you think it might be.
HC(av, btw) have their horses, the Micks have their wolfhound, the fusiliers their goat, and so on; many of the Scottish regiments don't even wear trousers on parade I mean how impractical is that and many if not most other regiments prance around in funny looking uniforms that would be out of place in, say, Estonia right now.
Have there been studies of how important ceremonial is in helping recruitment & retention eg ‘I stuck with catering cos of the Red Arrers’? Given the problems with both one would hope so.
No prizes for guessing which episode of Polish-Russian history Medvedev omits:
This morning, 🇷🇺Dmitry Medvedev decided to post a lengthy letter 🇵🇱"On Poland" - it is a curious mix of Soviet and pan-Slavic mythology with mockery, dire criticism and veiled threats against Poland - here are the key points 🧵
This is worth reading in full …highlights that B Johnson and others lied about the evacuation from Afghanistan and the wider administrative chaos …short and illuminating on many levels: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/107001/pdf
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
There's a film about Milada Horakova, called simply 'Milada' on Netflix, that is well worth a watch. Her heroism in the face of two successive doses of totalitarianism was eventually recognised, but was essentially futile.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
interestingly, in 1940 Michael Foot and various other leftists in the Home Guard ( not the cuddly Dad's Army idea, but quite a large group of older radicals ) were preparing for 1), and a number of key establisment figures in MI6 - and possibly the Queen Mother, too - were preparing for 3).
There were some attempts by those not "read in" on this to organise their own (such as the Lefty types you mention), but they were largely dealt with by "reading them in" to the Auxiliary Unit thing.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
There isn't actually a surfeit of secure sites to store it giving the MoD's mania for selling real estate (except any of its 17 golf courses) but, yes, that would be an excellent proposal.
What's wrong with using Boxer off the shelf instead of messing around with Ajax? I've not been keeping up but can only assume MoD doesn't want to admit the Germans are better at the (wheeled) panzer business than UK plc. Or maybe less in the way of sweeties such as directorships.
Anther issue is absurd lists of requirements that are utterly unique to the UK. Such as the insistence on retaining rifled barrels for tank guns because of HESH. Even after FN demonstrated a finned projectile from a smoothbore which could do HESH
Interesting. Challenger III is going for smoothbore, isn't it?
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
I didn't know the Armed Forces were part of the tourist industry ... and as for the good Mr Reagan, isn't that pony he is on one of HMtQ's stable, rather than the HC?
If you consider that just about every country has a ceremonial element, for good PR, historical, recruitment and retention, yes tourist reasons among others then the UK having a ceremonial element which includes donkeys is not the great crime you think it might be.
HC(av, btw) have their horses, the Micks have their wolfhound, the fusiliers their goat, and so on; many of the Scottish regiments don't even wear trousers on parade I mean how impractical is that and many if not most other regiments prance around in funny looking uniforms that would be out of place in, say, Estonia right now.
Have there been studies of how important ceremonial is in helping recruitment & retention eg ‘I stuck with catering cos of the Red Arrers’? Given the problems with both one would hope so.
One of John Keegan's favourite quotes to illustrate how the British Army works was; "I didn't join the army I joined the 10th Hussars".
HMF operates on a wholly illogical, arcane, parochial, exclusive and exclusionary, outdated and delusional basis. The Red Arrows and Perseus the HCav drum horse aren't the half of it.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
interestingly, in 1940 Michael Foot and various other leftists in the Home Guard ( not the cuddly Dad's Army idea, but quite a large group of older radicals ) were preparing for 1), and a number of key establisment figures in MI6 - and possibly the Queen Mother, too - were preparing for 3).
There were some attempts by those not "read in" on this to organise their own (such as the Lefty types you mention), but they were largely dealt with by "reading them in" to the Auxiliary Unit thing.
The information was from this programme I heard several years ago :
The battle seems to have been internal - from what I remember of the programme, many people in both the auxiliary units and home guard seemed to have thought that there were people at the top of MI6 working towards a completely different agenda for a period in 1940 - and there seems to have been some evidence that they were right.
As regards the Queen Mother and Halifax at exactly the same time, that is too to remain mysteriously secret for another 100 years.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
While living in Sunderland around 1960 I met several people who claimed to have been on the Jarrow March 24 years earlier. Some must have taken time out from school.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
Well, that's the starting point but that focus becomes diffuse due to...
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
I for one will never take the MoD seriously till they scrap the Red Arrows. And the Household Cavalry's equines. The forces are now so small that those are significant detriments.
Soft power. the cavalry pays its way in increased tourism to London
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
I didn't know the Armed Forces were part of the tourist industry ... and as for the good Mr Reagan, isn't that pony he is on one of HMtQ's stable, rather than the HC?
If you consider that just about every country has a ceremonial element, for good PR, historical, recruitment and retention, yes tourist reasons among others then the UK having a ceremonial element which includes donkeys is not the great crime you think it might be.
HC(av, btw) have their horses, the Micks have their wolfhound, the fusiliers their goat, and so on; many of the Scottish regiments don't even wear trousers on parade I mean how impractical is that and many if not most other regiments prance around in funny looking uniforms that would be out of place in, say, Estonia right now.
Have there been studies of how important ceremonial is in helping recruitment & retention eg ‘I stuck with catering cos of the Red Arrers’? Given the problems with both one would hope so.
The Red Arrows consume about 5% of the available fast jet pilots in the RAF. Given that these are all experienced 2nd/3rd tour crew or QFIs whatever specious benefit is claimed can't possibly justify that.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
It's not a static equation. In most of occupied Europe, the initial resisters were the true fanatics, often those who were politically active prior, plus people with various particularly personal reasons to get involved. Their numbers swelled with people on the run, particularly when the Germans started deporting adult males for forced labour in Germany. Once the tide of the war had turned, it became easier to win recruits among the civilian population, and in the final year once the writing was on the wall, very many people wanted a slice of the action, including some who thought it might balance off their previous collaboration.
In the scenario where Britain had fallen, the war would have been going badly for the Allies (their all having lost, excepting the remains of the Empire) and one would expect the pattern to be similar to France in 1940-41. As and when the Americans got involved and began to turn the tide, things would have started to change.
For sure things wouldn’t be static, the trajectories of prominent French people from working with Vichyists to resistance implies as much. For that transition to occur in occupied Britain the entry of the USA into the war would be an absolute necessity; as the SU suggests, long term occupation or incorporation tends to make resistance fizzle out or at least become sporadic.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
It's not a static equation. In most of occupied Europe, the initial resisters were the true fanatics, often those who were politically active prior, plus people with various particularly personal reasons to get involved. Their numbers swelled with people on the run, particularly when the Germans started deporting adult males for forced labour in Germany. Once the tide of the war had turned, it became easier to win recruits among the civilian population, and in the final year once the writing was on the wall, very many people wanted a slice of the action, including some who thought it might balance off their previous collaboration.
In the scenario where Britain had fallen, the war would have been going badly for the Allies (their all having lost, excepting the remains of the Empire) and one would expect the pattern to be similar to France in 1940-41. As and when the Americans got involved and began to turn the tide, things would have started to change.
AIUI the Communists in France were late to the party.
I wonder what they'd choose to spend the money on if the public and political mood delivers them a big increase in budget?
Probably...
Reverse the cut in the E-7 buy Restore SEAD capability lost with Tornado by joining the Germans in Eurofighter ECR Throw money at Ajax until it works Buy a tracked APC/IFV to replace the cancelled Warrior CSP More A400M to reverse the recent cut in tactical airlift Accelerate AS90 and MLRS replacement to this decade Loads of Bayraktar TB2 because that's fashionable More StarStreak
Can't really do much for the RN as there is nowhere to build any more ships and it's not politically possible to build them outside the UK.
For all forces, increased stocks of munitions might be a comparatively cheap and quick way to increase the effectiveness of existing equipment ?
There isn't actually a surfeit of secure sites to store it giving the MoD's mania for selling real estate (except any of its 17 golf courses) but, yes, that would be an excellent proposal.
What's wrong with using Boxer off the shelf instead of messing around with Ajax? I've not been keeping up but can only assume MoD doesn't want to admit the Germans are better at the (wheeled) panzer business than UK plc. Or maybe less in the way of sweeties such as directorships.
Anther issue is absurd lists of requirements that are utterly unique to the UK. Such as the insistence on retaining rifled barrels for tank guns because of HESH. Even after FN demonstrated a finned projectile from a smoothbore which could do HESH
Interesting. Challenger III is going for smoothbore, isn't it?
Yes. Finally accepting the reality that if we have the only rifled tank guns, then we have to pay for all the ammunition development.
This was pointed out decades ago.... "But HESH!", "What about smoothbore, fiinned HESH?", "But that would cost money!" on and on and fucking on.
Rather like "Saving money" by having a weird analogue/digital cockpit hybrid for Chinook. The Australians just bought the damn things off the shelf - and flew them happily for decades.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
While living in Sunderland around 1960 I met several people who claimed to have been on the Jarrow March 24 years earlier. Some must have taken time out from school.
Same applies to legendary Pistols & Clash concerts, more people at them than at Live Aid by numbers of anecdotes.
This is worth reading in full …highlights that B Johnson and others lied about the evacuation from Afghanistan and the wider administrative chaos …short and illuminating on many levels: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/107001/pdf
Interesting that under Nowzad (29) the whistle-blower states
'I am not aware of any deliberate decision to prioritise animals over people, and do not believe that this happened intentionally'
A lot of the criticism was from the perception animals were prioritised over people and this certainly affirms that was not the case
No prizes for guessing which episode of Polish-Russian history Medvedev omits:
This morning, 🇷🇺Dmitry Medvedev decided to post a lengthy letter 🇵🇱"On Poland" - it is a curious mix of Soviet and pan-Slavic mythology with mockery, dire criticism and veiled threats against Poland - here are the key points 🧵
Sajid Javid joins Rishi Sunak in having to argue that night is day on behalf of the prime minister over the Brexit/Ukraine row: "I don't accept that he was comparing the UK to Ukraine." Which is nonsense, of course. https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1505807648448565250/photo/1
So what interpretation did he offer for this ?
"I know that it's the instinct of the people of this country, like the people of Ukraine, to choose freedom, every time. I can give you a couple of famous recent examples. "When the British people voted for Brexit in such large, large numbers, I don't believe it was because they were remotely hostile to foreigners. "It's because they wanted to be free to do things differently and for this country to be able to run itself."...
That both the UK and Ukraine are in the category of countries with a freedom loving people. That doesn’t mean that the UK is equivalent to Ukraine
Yes, Boris’ quote about “Ukraine and Brexit” really isn’t that offensive. You can see what he’s trying to say. It was emotionally misjudged but not an obviously foolish or outrageous statement
But the misjudgement (or canny trolling?) got his opponents to hyper-ventilate, which then made the news
I’m cynical enough to go with canny trolling. The words were carefully chosen. You would hope for better, but that’s the PM the UK has. For now.
You said exactly the same thing about the refugee cock up. If you don't like what you hear you call it trolling rather than accepting it is true. It is true as was the refugee issue. I'm not a troll. I don't even have a twitter account, but I was fully aware of the refugee issue and had an immediate reaction to Boris' statement.
Doesn't look good if your reaction to everything you don't like is 'trolls'.
@StillWaters my apologies, wrong person. Please ignore my post. Sorry.
No problem. Just to be clear I think you were being trolled by Boris, not a troll yourself!
On the refugee issue, I tend to view it as, initially, a combination of cock up and bureaucratic inflexibility. Where Patel was at fault was politically not realising it was a problem (I find it hard to believe that she could be personally unmoved by the situation) and being unable / unwilling to devote the focus and energy to sorting it out.
I don't know how the new system works, so no idea whether the criticisms are justified, but it seems to be these are criticisms of execution rather than of principle at this point, so definitely an improvement. Let's hope that it works.
(The only person on here I accuse of being a troll is Heathener. Because she is. A spinner of Putin-preferred lines with a compromised VPN that is on an anti-spamming blacklist and was also used by two previous trolls)
Re your comments on cock up and bureaucratic inflexibility I am sure you are right. FYI I get involved in numerous campaigns where individuals and groups have been badly or unfairly treated by Govt departments (nothing to do with politics). The level of incompetence is mind boggling. However what I do find is a massive amount of resources are then put into avoiding taking any action or making changes often disproportionate to any cost involved. We see these scandals arise over and over again. There are many more at a lower level of seriousness.
Also for those who think we gained freedoms by leaving the EU, our ombudsman offerings are very flawed with lots of gaps that people and groups fall through. Private member's bills with cross party support invariably fail to fill these gaps. The last and effective resolution was the ECJ has now gone, so many groups are left in limbo with nobody to investigate.
Eh? We are still subject to the jurisdiction of the ECtHR, our domestic courts can be asked to and do enforce ECHR rights and they are a part of our domestic law.
Domestic courts are still required to enforce these laws unless they have been changed and there are almost no examples of this so far.
David, I don't want to bore people online with this but I am involved in pension campaigns where this is an issue. We have had a number of successes in the ECJ, but these will now stop. We have also tried to get the law changed on a number of occasions with all party support and also support from the Parliamentary Ombudsman whose hands are tied so would like to see a change in the law, but these are always opposed by Governments. There are cases which just fall through the gaps. In the case of pension and mortgage cases you can fall fail of the limitation act, which is daft for a mortgage or pension. The FOS will ignore the limitation act, but the PHSO won't because they are legally bound so if you come under that jurisdiction you are stuffed (random result). PHSO also can't investigate GAD so if that is an issue you are stuffed, although an exception was made for Equitable Life, but nobody else. The PO has done an awful job re the PPF and again hides behind the Limitation Act. Ex civil servants can fall between the PHSO and the Whitley Council so fail to get an investigation.
Is that enough of a pile of issues for you. Just about the only success achieved with this pile of crap is the ECJ.
I might have to get that; I've have never understood the hatred of 'official' Russians for Ukrainians. The comments about relationships that we are hearing surely make it clear that they are very similar peoples, if not the same, just speaking a different language!
They are, but there are two hideous crimes that have polluted the relationship for decades. The Holodomor in the 1930s literally starved huge numbers of Ukranians to death, because Stalin collectivised them and then confiscated the wheat for expoert. Conversely, Bandera led a large number of Ukrainians to collaborate with the Nazis, and remains celebrated today in countless Ukrainian memorials (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera?msclkid=d8e7922ea8f411eca9a3867070865b47). My Russian-born mother, whose family had suffered in the war (her aunt starved to death in the siege of Leningrad), loathed the (pre-Zelensky - this was 20 years ago) Ukrainian leadership for that reason - she felt it wasn't so much that there were collaborators, since every country had some, but that they were still seen by many as heroes.
Up to recently, it was possible to see the past being buried, since virtually everyone involved is now dead. Young Russians mostly see WW2 as a historical issue, much as we see WW1 - how many people in Britain in the last 30 years have brooded about the sins of the Kaiser? Conversely, opinion polls before the invasion showed over 30% of Ukrainians regretting the loss of the Soviet Union, and hostility to Russians as a people was mainly the province of the far right. One of the consequences of the invasion is to set all that back another generation or two. There are plenty of reports from Ukraine of people who felt a natural affinity to Russia, who voted for pro-Russian parties and detested Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, but who now feel completely betrayed and alienated by Russia. Like most imperialist projects, it's both horrible and ultimately self-defeating, since Putin has actually forged a Ukrainian national unity and common purpose that wasn't there before.
More anything it reminds me of Yugoslavia. Under Tito, lots of people had got used to getting over the Serb/Croat/Bosnian divide and many declined to identify with any of the rthnic groups in surveys - they said they were simply Yugoslavs. After Tito died, absent-mindedly neglecting to groom an heir, the country fell apart and nationalist leaders set about organising massacres to pursue their perceived identities. Each atrocity in turn reinforced extremists in the victimised ethnic group, and new hatreds were generated which are only now starting to fade.
You are a Ukrainian in 1940 or 1941. You are 30. You saw the horrors of the Holodomor visited upon you and your family just ten years before. Do you go and fight for the people who did that to you, or do you go and fight for the people fighting them?
The same was true in the Baltic states, where the Soviets pursued a campaign of mass murder in 1939-40.
As I've posted before, if the Nazi's hadn't been so insanely fixated on the idea of Slavs (etc) being sub-human they would probably have won.
If they hadn't believed in race war, then the war would not have happened as it did anyway.
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine ...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Quite, although there's still the issue of Lebensraum, which might come up again in many years.
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully. I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
My theory was that in the event of the Germans invading the UK -
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death - One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted. - One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
On your first point, 10% would have taken to the hills to fight to the death, after the event another 50% would have said they were also in the hills. I imagine that proportion applies roughly to most resistance movements.
While living in Sunderland around 1960 I met several people who claimed to have been on the Jarrow March 24 years earlier. Some must have taken time out from school.
Same applies to legendary Pistols & Clash concerts, more people at them than at Live Aid by numbers of anecdotes.
Many said that the Blind Beggar pub and the balcony at the former Iranian Embassy should have been reused as Olympic venues.
Both have, according to sworn statements ("On my mothers grave"...), a capacity of millions.
Javier Blas @JavierBlas · 1h We have a big diesel problem. Really big.
The chart below is US retail on-highway diesel price since 1994 (weekly). Diesel is the workhorse of the global economy, powering trucking and manufacturing.
Comments
It's just if Ukraine goes even worse, why not expand the war and distract? "It's all an evil Western plot to surround and subvert us." Might be better to go down that way. And he may think he can draw West into the negotiations with the threat of a pulverised Helsinki to look forward to. Or something. Who knows how a cornered rat thinks in extremity?"
I don't think Finland's membership of the EU would make much difference TBH. Might even make it a more attractive proposition to a crazed dictator.
I will let people argue over whether it was best to save Mr Whiskerson over an interpreter; I have my views, as no doubt, do you. But that is not germane to the issue.
https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1505856305495351296?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1505856305495351296|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/645805-china-eastern-737-800-mu5735-incident-2.html
Might be what our green friend was thinking of.
I can't remember if there was a protest at the BBC when they showed a documentary about a bloke with a pack of terriers who would go and kill rats at farms upon request, that said.
Quite a few people in conservation are frustrated how much money is spent on pet charities rather than helping to protect biodiversity. God knows how much is spent on donkey sanctuaries. "They'd be better off turned into dogfood."
Just that as (he was at one time an active) anti, I'm sure Dura was referring to the various chats about foxhunting on here. Which again is his right to do. And some of which are what could be described as performative, if not particularly numerous or indulged in by many on PB.
*hangs head*
As far as collaborators are concerned, the evidence would suggest the the propensity to collaborate, rather than an attraction to any given ideology, is the determining factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine
...According to Timothy Snyder, "something that is never said, because it's inconvenient for precisely everyone, is that more Ukrainian Communists collaborated with the Germans, than did Ukrainian nationalists." Snyder also points out that very many of those who collaborated with the German occupation also collaborated with the Soviet policies in the 1930s...
Win/win.
(Of course I'm making the rather silly assumption that they'd derive capability from possible threats, rather than from how shiny something is.)
However the Timothy Snyder post is interesting. Was it repeated elsewhere, is there an issue about some people always gravitating to the government or toadying to the bully.
I have a dim memory of reading something akin to that in the Channel Islands.
We witnessed Mariupol's agony and fled a Russian hit list
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-edf7240a9d990e7e3e32f82ca351dede
As this is not the case there must be a number of other factors in play. Labour hold no seats at all in the less densely populated parts of the south, where educational attainment is much higher than most of the north. Why?
£20 000 where it got 34%.
The first time ever Labour had failed to do best with the poorest voters. Though obviously Brexit was key
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
Has this been remarked upon yet? Happy memories of Bewley's in Dublin - I do hope the windows do not go.
40°C above normal in the Antarctic today.
It would be unbelievable if it were not true.
And it is terrifying beyond words.
The war we have waged against the natural world has, in climatic terms, just gone nuclear.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1505645606970273794
Sorry to quote the Moonbat, but he is sort of verging on having a point here
‘Johnson regrets making the comparison, a close source told The Times. “It sounded better written down than it did when spoken,” the insider said’
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1505816770334142468?s=21
BJ and his band of gypsy haters are missing a trick. Surely a flood of freedom loving Ukrainians would provide doughty fighters in Project Brexit and the war against the EU.
Political imperatives that mean as much as possible has to be based in Scotland, it all has to be made in the UK and they have to keep funding things the Daily Mail comments section obsesses over like the BoBMF.
Incompetence.
Corruption.
Inherent small-C conservatism of 1* ranks and up.
Channel One has finally responded to Marina Ovsyannikova’s on-air protest.
Kirill Kleimyonov, head of the news division, accuses her of being a British spy.
He said she has “betrayed [her] country and all of us … coldly, duplicitously, for a bonus.”
“Treason is always someone’s personal choice … But you need to call things like they are. If they had called the well known deed in exchange for 30 pieces of silver an act of passion, world history would have gone very differently.”
I think Channel One is Jesus in this analogy?
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1505859269522079746
Also
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/03/19/horse-trading-riding-queen-ronald-reagans-price-backing-britain/
Reagan structures a whole european tour round a riding photo op with HMQ
[bonus titbit from that article: FO begged Queenie not to use thye words "special relationship, cos they loathe them. Quite right.]
What temperatures are they exactly?
That much would be catastrophic anywhere.
(I'm not saying he's wrong; just that the raw data he got it from would be good.)
- One third of the population would have taken to the hills to fight to the death
- One third of the population wouldn't have noticed, unless the football was interrupted.
- One third would have lined up round the block for a black armband and a clipboard.
https://www.severe-weather.eu/global-weather/powerful-heatwave-affecting-antarctic-continent-unprecedented-temperatures-40-degrees-above-average-rrc/
That same day temperatures hit 0 degrees at the even-higher Vostok station, beating the all-time record by about 27 degrees, according to a tweet from Maximiliano Herrera, a climatologist and extreme weather record tracker.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/03/19/high-temperatures-north-south-polls-antarctica-70-above-normal/7103319001/
some temps in F in that article
Assuming he's right that is something to be noted.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60802572
It is normally -50 odd at this time apparently.
Of course if you went into a Moscow bank and tried to change $100 into rubles they would be only too pleased to accommodate you at the official rate (1/105 as I type) but would be puzzled as to why you didn't turn to the man behind you in the queue to get about three times as much for your buck.
In short, the ruble is worthless and the official rate is unlikely to change much now because it can't get much more worthless.
"I feel a strong sense of moral injury for having been part of something so badly managed, and so focused on managing reputational risk & political fallout rather than the actual crisis"
https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1505862862547427331
The Arrows fly the Hawk T1 which is now effectively obsolete in normal service use (I believe the remaining ones used for operational training, testing, etc. will be scrapped this year apart from odd ones for trials/expoeriments). It's the Hawk T2 that is the trainer now. So the Raff is going to be keeping going for another decade or so with an increasingly useless jet just for pretty smoke signals. I wonder if it can still carry a gun and AAMs like it used to? But I wouldn't like to fly a bright red jet in combat. A whole squadron of crews too. The FAA don't even operate their historic flight any more - never mind a whole aerobatic squadron. Am I misunderstanding anything?
Normally the Antarctic interior is cut off from poleward heat transport because of the strength of the polar circulation. One effect of the ozone hole was to strengthen that circulation - and that might have been one reason why the Antarctic didn't match the warming seen in the Arctic.
This appears to be changing as the ozone hole recovers. So we might expect to see very rapid warming in Antarctica as it catches up with the warming seen in the Arctic.
Below is interesting in the context of the Times reporting that Number 10 “sorry” on the Brexit-Ukraine remarks… rather suggests that an invite from Charles Michel to Thursday’s EU summit might have been being pondered (Biden is going too, same day as special NATO summit)…. https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1505278978550022145
.. indeed briefing from UK end to British journalists to this effect last week. Foreign Sec Truss attended the Foreign Affairs Council, so there is a precedent here.
Something interesting going on here.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/17/boris-johnson-open-to-attending-european-council-says-source?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Global BritainFucking Clown
And every time we fall into the same hole.
And he has naused it right up...
HC(av, btw) have their horses, the Micks have their wolfhound, the fusiliers their goat, and so on; many of the Scottish regiments don't even wear trousers on parade I mean how impractical is that and many if not most other regiments prance around in funny looking uniforms that would be out of place in, say, Estonia right now.
In the scenario where Britain had fallen, the war would have been going badly for the Allies (their all having lost, excepting the remains of the Empire) and one would expect the pattern to be similar to France in 1940-41. As and when the Americans got involved and began to turn the tide, things would have started to change.
*If* Labour have dispensed with the clown shoes (always a big if), we are in "Governments lose elections" territory, and those "they're just the same" plays work to the Opposition's advantage.
This morning, 🇷🇺Dmitry Medvedev decided to post a lengthy letter 🇵🇱"On Poland" - it is a curious mix of Soviet and pan-Slavic mythology with mockery, dire criticism and veiled threats against Poland - here are the key points 🧵
https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1505843869707116547
There were some attempts by those not "read in" on this to organise their own (such as the Lefty types you mention), but they were largely dealt with by "reading them in" to the Auxiliary Unit thing.
Have we done the update to the "hypersonic strike on the "Ammunition Warehouse" in Western Ukraine" that was a fake? PR for the Western Newspapers.
It seems to look surprisingly like a farm complex in the East of the country.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44840/we-have-questions-about-russias-claimed-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-use-in-ukraine
HMF operates on a wholly illogical, arcane, parochial, exclusive and exclusionary, outdated and delusional basis. The Red Arrows and Perseus the HCav drum horse aren't the half of it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20050905.shtml
The battle seems to have been internal - from what I remember of the programme, many people in both the auxiliary units and home guard seemed to have thought that there were people at the top of MI6 working towards a completely different agenda for a period in 1940 - and there seems to have been some evidence that they were right.
As regards the Queen Mother and Halifax at exactly the same time, that is too to remain mysteriously secret for another 100 years.
This was pointed out decades ago.... "But HESH!", "What about smoothbore, fiinned HESH?", "But that would cost money!" on and on and fucking on.
Rather like "Saving money" by having a weird analogue/digital cockpit hybrid for Chinook. The Australians just bought the damn things off the shelf - and flew them happily for decades.
@maxseddon
·
1h
Channel One has finally responded to Marina Ovsyannikova’s on-air protest.
Kirill Kleimyonov, head of the news division, accuses her of being a British spy.
He said she has “betrayed [her] country and all of us … coldly, duplicitously, for a bonus.”
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1505859269522079746
===
Incredible. As you know he knows he is lying. Kinda sums up the whole regime really.
'I am not aware of any deliberate decision to prioritise animals over people, and do not believe that this happened intentionally'
A lot of the criticism was from the perception animals were prioritised over people and this certainly affirms that was not the case
Is that enough of a pile of issues for you. Just about the only success achieved with this pile of crap is the ECJ.
Both have, according to sworn statements ("On my mothers grave"...), a capacity of millions.
Javier Blas
@JavierBlas
·
1h
We have a big diesel problem. Really big.
The chart below is US retail on-highway diesel price since 1994 (weekly). Diesel is the workhorse of the global economy, powering trucking and manufacturing.
You can read my
@bopinion
from a few days ago here: https://bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-14/ukraine-war-the-oil-price-rally-is-bad-the-diesel-crisis-is-far-worse?sref=5dj0X2VO
https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1505866056975462405