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The polling that should scare Sunak and every Tory – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,869

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
    Depends how shit the countryside is

    Lancashire is pretty bleak in places, anyway

    I accept it is unlikely to happen in the Kentish Weald
    Lancashire South of Preston is shit but Bowland and the Wyre valley which I think are fracking country are among the most beautiful bits of England
    We need to find huge reserves under Swindon, Luton, or Derby. Or, of course, Wick.
    Of course, if we are wrong and it formed a massive sink hole, then Middlesbrough is the place to be fracking.....
    There are salt caverns under Teesside that are used for industrial gas storage. I guess they could cave in.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,032

    Lancashire South of Preston is shit but Bowland and the Wyre valley which I think are fracking country are among the most beautiful bits of England
    My part of Lancashire, south of Preston, is a gem but we don't boast about it often as we don't want it ruined by hoardes.



    Yes, Lancashire between Bolton and Blackburn is wonderful. And even people from fifteen miles south of there don't know much about it.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    Well, depends how much grief comes China's way for dealing with Russia at all. Not if concerted effort impacts their markets in the West they won't.
    I suspect that the Chinese leadership now hold Putin in contempt.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    Aslan said:

    biggles said:

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Under the current loan system I don’t think I’d have pursued a degree - except maybe later via an apprenticeship or other work funded scheme. Arguably that’s now the rational choice if you’re not going to get an Oxbridge first.

    Which is awful for the humanities or pure science/maths.
    A red brick 2:1 still is well worth the money.
    Sort of. I reckon in the current system I would play a slightly longer game and get someone else to pay for it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    Well, depends how much grief comes China's way for dealing with Russia at all. Not if concerted effort impacts their markets in the West they won't.
    I suspect that the Chinese leadership now hold Putin in contempt.
    They'll certainly be bloody annoyed with him. Not only has he spectacularly failed in his promised quick and easy annexation of Ukraine, but by strengthening NATO and committing all democracies to self-determination he's epically screwed up any plans they may have had for Taiwan.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,555
    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,481

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    Well, depends how much grief comes China's way for dealing with Russia at all. Not if concerted effort impacts their markets in the West they won't.
    I suspect that the Chinese leadership now hold Putin in contempt.
    I wonder what lies he has told them before all this kicked off about what he was planning and how well it would go.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    Voyeurs
    More like rubbernecking.
    Some of my ex-girlfriends would say that the way I have sex, they would be the same thing.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,032

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,742

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    In some ways that would be a suitable end for Putin's Russia. Becoming a larder, power station, lumberyard and whipping boy for China. Feudal vassalage under Beijing

    A shame that many innocent Russians would have to suffer because of their mad president

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
    Depends how shit the countryside is

    Lancashire is pretty bleak in places, anyway

    I accept it is unlikely to happen in the Kentish Weald
    Lancashire South of Preston is shit but Bowland and the Wyre valley which I think are fracking country are among the most beautiful bits of England
    We need to find huge reserves under Swindon, Luton, or Derby. Or, of course, Wick.
    Sorry, not Wick. It's on Old Red Sandstone.

    You need something younger. Swindon, or Luton, or Camden would do nicely, depending on the actual subsurface structure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    Ouch!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    edited March 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    You are absolutely right. It is doing something to us too. Obviously our first thoughts are the horrors on shocked refugee faces and the people losing beloved ones (rather than poor Farooq under his blanket feeling a bit chilly this March day). But the homes with the long loved vase in window and the artisan shops long in the family and the factory’s and tea rooms look like they could just be streets away from us, and hell is visiting it. 🤮

    Back to *politics *betting
    Have to expect polls are showing some rally to flag for current government in US and with Macron and Boris. If Starmer was PM you would expect Starmer and Labour to enjoy rally to flag in crisis bounce even if Tory opposition not doing too much wrong at all, such as in nature of rally in crisis bounces.

    But surely the bit we should be focussing on is that there doesn’t seem to be much government bounce in all three of these countries? Surely that is our BIG political betting story? A limp rally to flag bounce in such serious crisis, what does it mean, what does it tell us about what happens next?

    In France I think all Macron has is gobbled up the Pecresses voters who won’t abstain in second round early, to top himself up a bit - that might not even be war related, just pecrasse less convincing than fillion - but doesn’t help President for second round at all by picking low lying fruit early. Thinking ahead if Putin annexation on current Ukraine boundaries, I wonder how history books will view Sleepy Joe Biden? Will he be viewed as too old and sleepy and ultimately rubbish in this crisis? There already seems to be a growing opposition to Biden’s Ukraine sleepiness in favour of firmer and stated red lines in US politics have you noticed, not just from Trump and his brood but from across left to right of the political spectrum including moderates? In political betting sense could Biden be brought down by this before end of his term (standing and winning again already looking unlikely) and actually be out even before Putin?

    At that point of Putin’s annexation of Ukraine you see it’s positions reversed, Putin with all his shit like training bases, listening posts, radar, missile launchers, build up of troops, airstrips on all those Ukraine borders, just miles from EU and NATO everyday cities towns & villages. ☹️ Having a Ukraine friendly to us was brilliant for us. If Putin gets into that position, can you think of a more bigger and frustrating middle finger up to the West? How would the western leaders look in eyes of their own voters with Putin’s middle finger up at us? Will the alliance start to blame one another, as the Ukrainians already are taking sides and blaming some in West for this over others in todays news? (Basically Love Boris, hating France and Germany and Turkey).

    Are my political betting musings helpful to this site at all, or would my time be better spent catching up on Emmerdale and Farndale? 💁‍♀️
    Do you remember watching it when it was Emmerdale FARM? The days of Amos Brearly and Joe Sugden? This latter played by the dishy Frazer Hines - all the rage back then and once tipped to be James Bond, but somehow he didn't kick on and become the huge star that people thought he would be.
    Great question. Not born since September 96, missed first transmission by a few years, I understand was not on in evenings, I found the first ones ONLY last December. And you know what, it’s brilliant. Looking into it, it’s what called a slow soap, idea from a slow farm soap in Ireland, and that is so much better speed than how fast soaps are today. Characters, consistent characters rather than caricature. They are proper actors from the stage of many years. Even the good guys are bloody minded. If you are not Yorky girl like me you probably don’t understand a word of dialogue . I know what working farms look and smell like, and how the hours of day are so different than city life, and it captures it quite well. And the art direction is cool too.

    It’s starts with a minor character riding on a horse, observing main characters as outsider. Flipping brilliant.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZxTCV6wQbA
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    Ouch! Good luck with it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
    Depends how shit the countryside is

    Lancashire is pretty bleak in places, anyway

    I accept it is unlikely to happen in the Kentish Weald
    Lancashire South of Preston is shit but Bowland and the Wyre valley which I think are fracking country are among the most beautiful bits of England
    We need to find huge reserves under Swindon, Luton, or Derby. Or, of course, Wick.
    Sorry, not Wick. It's on Old Red Sandstone.

    You need something younger. Swindon, or Luton, or Camden would do nicely, depending on the actual subsurface structure.
    If we fracked in Camden, could we also put the HS2 link in at last?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    Ouch. Don't drink and mow

    Get better!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,555

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,159
    biggles said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Best wishes. Also, this is one more piece of evidence in my “leave the lawn mowing to my wife” theory.
    Also trainers aren't suitable footwear. We have a gardener, but if not I think I'd wear the steelies.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,362
    #Breaking Facing huge public protest and zero support from her own government, Israeli Interior Min Ayelet Shaked announces that any Ukrainian with relatives in Israel (~25,000 Ukrainians in-country) will be accepted as a refugee. (No degree of family ties specified.) https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1503058583516233747/photo/1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
    Depends how shit the countryside is

    Lancashire is pretty bleak in places, anyway

    I accept it is unlikely to happen in the Kentish Weald
    Lancashire South of Preston is shit but Bowland and the Wyre valley which I think are fracking country are among the most beautiful bits of England
    And heavily Tory.
    Fracking has very low, temporary impact unlike solar farms! Small surface footprint. Yes, increased road traffic can be an issue but similar to quarrying.
    Massively unpopular with locals though, and that is democracy.
    Any number of policies and decisions are imposed nationally without more than scant regard for local opinion. Sometimes that is wrong, and sometimes it is right. It isn't a hallmark of democracy that people must have the ability to control local development. That already isn't the case, as cllrs moan all over the country as they overpromise to stop development and then are required by law to approve housing allocations and local plans which will see lots of development occur.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,103

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The Superjet is the only "modern" Russian airliner on offer.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100

    Honourable mention must also be made of Ukraine's An-148:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-148
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Seems weird and wrong to us, but I’d guess for some Russians he is their Churchill. Defeated the Nazi invaders and all that.
    Cannot remove the horrors of everything else when outsiders look in but to a Russian? And I’m sure the fake news is equally strong over there. Revisionist history, the terror, the famine etc were not Stalins fault, if he’d known he’d have stopped it...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,761
    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Most remarkable, not greatest. Adolf Hitler was on 9%!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    Blimey. And I thought the time I ran my electric mower over its own power cable was bad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Most remarkable, not greatest.
    Well, that's a bit of a can of worms anyway. It could well be argued that many terrible people were great or did great things.

    I think that might be from a Harry Potter movie, but still true.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The question of under what circumstances we might take our economic foot of their throat now is interesting. Complete withdrawal and renunciation of territorial claims?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    edited March 2022
    Cookie said:

    Barnesian said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    No.

    I did a four week course with FutureLearn on the politics and science of fracking. Fascinating. I went into it open minded and came out convinced it was not a sensible option for the UK. The course is free. It covers all opinions as well as geological and economic facts.
    https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/shale-gas



    I have a friend who is a county council planning officer who deals with fracking applications. He is pretty knowledgeable on it. His view is that there is no impact-on-the-community reason not to frack, if it is done properly - though he takes no view of the economics of it.
    I find planning officers are often very hawkish when it comes to development generally. Not that they have an inherent like of whatever national policy is this week, though they professionally seek to implement it, but because they see so many trivial, misplaced and ridiculous objections for every single well crafted or valid objection, and because they are so frequently implied to be corrupt or incompetent, that they have little truck with flimsy objections which are more likely to stir up political pressure.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,507
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Most remarkable, not greatest. Adolf Hitler was on 9%!
    People in the UK thought Stalin was great/remarkable for quite a long time. My partner's pal's parents called a series of dogs after Stalin's marshals, and not in any ironic, deprecating way. The streets of post war Clydebank often rang out to calls of 'Here Zhukov' etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    biggles said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The question of under what circumstances we might take our economic foot of their throat now is interesting. Complete withdrawal and renunciation of territorial claims?
    I fear status quo ante bellum 2022 will break the unaminity on what to do, and therefore see a fracturing.

    It's one thing to be first to impose, particularly when you are confident the dominoes are falling, but who wants to be last to revoke?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    In some ways that would be a suitable end for Putin's Russia. Becoming a larder, power station, lumberyard and whipping boy for China. Feudal vassalage under Beijing

    A shame that many innocent Russians would have to suffer because of their mad president

    Being reduced to vassal status is already fitting, but it becomes even better that a white nationalist type has to become vassal to Asians.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,162
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.
    I'd accept the abolition of exemption of CGT on main homes and inheritance tax at the basic rate with, say, a £100k allowance per owner/joint owner.

    I think 20% tax on asset windfalls is fair enough if we need to raise money quickly.

    I'd prefer that than any more NI rises or income tax threshold freezes.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    In some ways that would be a suitable end for Putin's Russia. Becoming a larder, power station, lumberyard and whipping boy for China. Feudal vassalage under Beijing

    A shame that many innocent Russians would have to suffer because of their mad president

    Being reduced to vassal status is already fitting, but it becomes even better that a white nationalist type has to become vassal to Asians.
    Says Asian.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Seems weird and wrong to us, but I’d guess for some Russians he is their Churchill. Defeated the Nazi invaders and all that.
    Cannot remove the horrors of everything else when outsiders look in but to a Russian? And I’m sure the fake news is equally strong over there. Revisionist history, the terror, the famine etc were not Stalins fault, if he’d known he’d have stopped it...
    Although it's ironic to reflect he was of course not a Russian.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,159
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Meanwhile Putin is deploying the Wagner Group whose leaders seem to be Rodnoverists (Slavic pagans) which normally seems to ensure you are a complete c**t.
    Yes, there are of course extreme undesirables on the Russian side.
    If you are defending your country against invaders, I don't think your political persuasion matters. If the Azov Brigade can kill Muscovites, good luck to them.
    They are also very good at defending their country against Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. Not people I'd be wishing good luck to

    https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
    That sounds excessively hysterical. And if they can kill the enemy, they can kill the enemy. Zelenskiy might want to stitch them up afterwards though. It's important to note that they haven't really started with the no quarter stuff. Most of the Molotovs seem to remain unused.
    "Excessively hysterical"? Meaning what, that they are anti semitic, but not to an unreasonable degree?
    No, that it is scaremongering by The Nation.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    biggles said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The question of under what circumstances we might take our economic foot of their throat now is interesting. Complete withdrawal and renunciation of territorial claims?
    Plus reparations to Ukraine and demilitarisation of Russia.

    So a minimum of 5 years of sanctions
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The question of under what circumstances we might take our economic foot of their throat now is interesting. Complete withdrawal and renunciation of territorial claims?
    I fear status quo ante bellum 2022 will break the unaminity on what to do, and therefore see a fracturing.

    It's one thing to be first to impose, particularly when you are confident the dominoes are falling, but who wants to be last to revoke?
    That would be a mistake similar to allowing Germany to keep the Sudetenland and Austria after WW2. If Russia's military is collapsing, then we should push through for pre-2014 ante bellum. That means Ukraine cannot be attacked in a pincer from Crimea again. Think of how bad this will be next time if Russia fixes its maintenance and supply chain issues over the next decade.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,032

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    Extracta-states never prosper.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The question of under what circumstances we might take our economic foot of their throat now is interesting. Complete withdrawal and renunciation of territorial claims?
    I fear status quo ante bellum 2022 will break the unaminity on what to do, and therefore see a fracturing.

    It's one thing to be first to impose, particularly when you are confident the dominoes are falling, but who wants to be last to revoke?
    Although presumably the EU needs unanimity to end them, and the US won’t want to. Which sort of freezes the world.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Most remarkable, not greatest. Adolf Hitler was on 9%!
    she’s dancing to spirit in the sky now Foxy. I blame you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,886

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Most remarkable, not greatest. Adolf Hitler was on 9%!
    People in the UK thought Stalin was great/remarkable for quite a long time. My partner's pal's parents called a series of dogs after Stalin's marshals, and not in any ironic, deprecating way. The streets of post war Clydebank often rang out to calls of 'Here Zhukov' etc.
    Some still do :smile:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stalin-apologists-drink-to-the-memory-of-uncle-joe-120991.html

    Though you are rather hard on Zhukov.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    In some ways that would be a suitable end for Putin's Russia. Becoming a larder, power station, lumberyard and whipping boy for China. Feudal vassalage under Beijing

    A shame that many innocent Russians would have to suffer because of their mad president

    Being reduced to vassal status is already fitting, but it becomes even better that a white nationalist type has to become vassal to Asians.
    One of the reasons that the Russo-Japanese war was such a humiliation for Russia is that they were beaten by an Asiatic power.

    They weren't the first European nation to suffer a military reverse at the hands of a non-white power - Adowa 1896 springs to mind - but they thought of themselves as rather more militarily powerful than the Italians.

    (There is of course a certain irony that Russia was the chief supplier of arms to the army of Menelik II.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,761

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    When the soldiers aren't paid, they turn.
    Putin's security industrial complex can't be too pleased about the looming financial chaos. Presumably they have mortgages, pensions, children to feed. I don't get a sense they are blinded by ideology as with Nazism or communism.
    This is a country that routinely votes that Stalin is the greatest person who ever lived

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/21/putin-plummets-stalin-stays-on-top-in-russians-ranking-of-remarkable-historical-figures-poll-a74280
    Most remarkable, not greatest. Adolf Hitler was on 9%!
    she’s dancing to spirit in the sky now Foxy. I blame you.
    We never win at Arsenal. Not even when we won the League.

    Arsenal were ropy at the start of the season, but have got their act together.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    Blimey. And I thought the time I ran my electric mower over its own power cable was bad.
    That's the great advantage of battery mowers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,761
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    Blimey. And I thought the time I ran my electric mower over its own power cable was bad.
    That's the great advantage of battery mowers.
    There's a lot to be said for a wildlife meadow...
  • NEW THREAD

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Cookie said:

    Why are Ukraine and Russia now so different? The obvious answer is that Russia has been able to afford an enormous security state due to oil and gas reserves. Without money how does Putin continue to afford his stormtroopers terrorising every city? The complete control of the media and even funding useful idiots or worse in other nations to do his bidding.

    To quote from the Godfather 2 in Cuba. The soldiers are paid to fight, the rebels aren't. Therefore the rebels can win.

    Extracta-states never prosper.
    It's fine to have massive resource production but what is important is that you are already a mature democracy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,886
    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Ouch.

    At least it is still attached ! I hope they let you out, soon.

    Tough work boots with steel toecaps for next birthday, perhaps?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,517
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    This seems to be a site for people doing stupid things to their legs. Get well soon. I think I would have found that a lot scarier than what I did. I'm not a fan of blood, particularly my own. I was lucky enough to get an ambulance and bypassed the A&E stuff and was dealt with immediately. I get the impression that when you clearly have something wrong with you the waiting time goes away.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Meanwhile Putin is deploying the Wagner Group whose leaders seem to be Rodnoverists (Slavic pagans) which normally seems to ensure you are a complete c**t.
    Yes, there are of course extreme undesirables on the Russian side.
    If you are defending your country against invaders, I don't think your political persuasion matters. If the Azov Brigade can kill Muscovites, good luck to them.
    They are also very good at defending their country against Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. Not people I'd be wishing good luck to

    https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
    That sounds excessively hysterical. And if they can kill the enemy, they can kill the enemy. Zelenskiy might want to stitch them up afterwards though. It's important to note that they haven't really started with the no quarter stuff. Most of the Molotovs seem to remain unused.
    "Excessively hysterical"? Meaning what, that they are anti semitic, but not to an unreasonable degree?
    No, that it is scaremongering by The Nation.
    Scrupulously sourced, with links, from (non exhaustive list) The New York Times, USA Today, The Daily Beast, The Telegraph, Haaretz, Guardian, RFE, Amnesty International, bellingcat, World Jewish Congress, Simon Wiesenthal Center, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House, and the BBC.

    I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what underlies your extraordinary claim of "scaremongering."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,761
    Aslan said:

    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    US sanctions have a life of their own - lasting for decades - even after the proximate cause of their introduction is long gone.

    How will Russian airlines fly internationally again? Interesting comparison between two BRICS countries - Russia and Brazil. Only one of them makes and sells commercial passenger planes in any scale - and it’s not Russia.
    The question of under what circumstances we might take our economic foot of their throat now is interesting. Complete withdrawal and renunciation of territorial claims?
    I fear status quo ante bellum 2022 will break the unaminity on what to do, and therefore see a fracturing.

    It's one thing to be first to impose, particularly when you are confident the dominoes are falling, but who wants to be last to revoke?
    That would be a mistake similar to allowing Germany to keep the Sudetenland and Austria after WW2. If Russia's military is collapsing, then we should push through for pre-2014 ante bellum. That means Ukraine cannot be attacked in a pincer from Crimea again. Think of how bad this will be next time if Russia fixes its maintenance and supply chain issues over the next decade.
    Russia isn't going to be able to fix its maintenance and supply issues, or poorly performing equipment. It is going to be beggared, whatever the outcome of the current war. Those sanctions will be staying until complete withdrawal and reparations made.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    NEW THREAD

    Where?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    This seems to be a site for people doing stupid things to their legs. Get well soon. I think I would have found that a lot scarier than what I did. I'm not a fan of blood, particularly my own. I was lucky enough to get an ambulance and bypassed the A&E stuff and was dealt with immediately. I get the impression that when you clearly have something wrong with you the waiting time goes away.
    I think this is broadly true, and you have to ask that if you can wait six hours for treatment, maybe you don’t need to be at A and E at all. I’m a big fan of minor injury units, and walk in gps.
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    Desolating

    Random shooting of civilians just to instil terror. This is like ISIS, maybe even Hitler

    How can the Ukrainians possibly make a peace with Putin? He is breeding a hatred that will last for decades
    Very bleak long term as well as now. Hard to envisage these 2 large countries living next door in peace for a long long time. And whatever happens they will remain immediate neighbours.
    Trying to resist despair, I guess one could argue that the French and Germans patched it up pretty quickly after WW2, despite Nazism, and the Chinese and Japanese have managed to be neighbours, without renewed conflict, despite the Rape of Nanjing, Unit 731, etc

    The key element in both cases, however, is that the aggressor was defeated and seen to suffer terribly. Germany was bombed and raped into submission, Japan got nuked

    If Putin and his regime escape unpunished for their crimes then the Ukrainians will want violent revenge
    "Let's bomb Russia" Kenny Everett
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,761
    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    This seems to be a site for people doing stupid things to their legs. Get well soon. I think I would have found that a lot scarier than what I did. I'm not a fan of blood, particularly my own. I was lucky enough to get an ambulance and bypassed the A&E stuff and was dealt with immediately. I get the impression that when you clearly have something wrong with you the waiting time goes away.
    All emergency departments do triage, and active bleeding is prioritised. The 6 hour wait will be for the non urgent stuff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,332
    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    So you really put your foot in it?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,215
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    It's going to mean the sanctions have a life of their own outside of however Ukraine resolves. Russia is fast leaving behind any pretext of being seen as a civilised nation. They are going to be punished for decades if they don't desist.

    And China will be forced to abandon them to their crumbling economic fate.
    China wants a broken, sanction-ridden, Russia who is forced to sell its natural resources at a discount rate to... ah yes... China.
    In some ways that would be a suitable end for Putin's Russia. Becoming a larder, power station, lumberyard and whipping boy for China. Feudal vassalage under Beijing

    A shame that many innocent Russians would have to suffer because of their mad president

    It is hard to feel too sorry for them.
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Barnesian said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    No.

    I did a four week course with FutureLearn on the politics and science of fracking. Fascinating. I went into it open minded and came out convinced it was not a sensible option for the UK. The course is free. It covers all opinions as well as geological and economic facts.
    https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/shale-gas



    I have a friend who is a county council planning officer who deals with fracking applications. He is pretty knowledgeable on it. His view is that there is no impact-on-the-community reason not to frack, if it is done properly - though he takes no view of the economics of it.
    I find planning officers are often very hawkish when it comes to development generally. Not that they have an inherent like of whatever national policy is this week, though they professionally seek to implement it, but because they see so many trivial, misplaced and ridiculous objections for every single well crafted or valid objection, and because they are so frequently implied to be corrupt or incompetent, that they have little truck with flimsy objections which are more likely to stir up political pressure.
    It has become a difficult job that few people stick at for more than a few years. On the one hand you have to push development forward against all sorts of trivial, ridiculous and pathetic complaints and byzantine legal and bureaucratic obstacles. But on the other hand you have deal with developers exploiting every possible loophole to do the most profitable development possible, which is often very poor quality. And then you get blamed for the results, or the lack of them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,596
    edited March 2022
    A big field of retrievers, spaniels, setters and pointers enter the arena for the judging of the last group, Gundogs. The 32 being the best of the 3,700 entries in this group.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,332
    ydoethur said:

    NEW THREAD

    Where?
    Some people are just getting twitchy about WW3
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    edited March 2022
    IanB2 said:

    A big field of retrievers, spaniels, setters and pointers enter the arena for the judging of the last group, Gundogs. The 32 being the best of the 3,700 entries in this group.

    "Now tell me, which one of these dogs would you want to have as your wide receiver on your football team?"
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003
    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Good luck , sounds painful.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Sounds nasty, but not as bad as could have been! Hope you get sorted and home. What happened?
    Tried to jerk the lawnmower backwards over some uneven ground, landing it on my foot.
    This seems to be a site for people doing stupid things to their legs. Get well soon. I think I would have found that a lot scarier than what I did. I'm not a fan of blood, particularly my own. I was lucky enough to get an ambulance and bypassed the A&E stuff and was dealt with immediately. I get the impression that when you clearly have something wrong with you the waiting time goes away.
    I think this is broadly true, and you have to ask that if you can wait six hours for treatment, maybe you don’t need to be at A and E at all. I’m a big fan of minor injury units, and walk in gps.
    At 6pm on a Sunday night, you are having a laugh
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,852
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.

    I think in general tax on wealth has to go up. As we are, if you're loaded but with a modest income you make little fiscal contribution to the nation's finances.
    Income tax rates have been high for many years. I've quite happily paid those taxes, and have finally managed to reach retirement. It'd be a little harsh if the burden now switches back on to me (and all the others similarly positioned)

    If you can find some way to assess wealth, then it's a reasonable tax, but anything along those lines surely should take into account the tax you've already paid. Such a model could be dovetailed quite nicely into inheritance tax too.
    In a sense it's harsh (on some). But I think we have a genuine case of TINA here. Either we find a way to squeeze more tax from wealth or we scale back what we expect the state to provide (inc for high priorities like health and defence).
    Wealth taxes are a nightmare. Way too complicated and intrusive. Better to tax residential property more effectively and then you will capture a large chunk of wealth while also being relatively simple and cheap to administer
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,852
    Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    That sounds… Yeouch!

    Good luck!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,852

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.
    I'd accept the abolition of exemption of CGT on main homes and inheritance tax at the basic rate with, say, a £100k allowance per owner/joint owner.

    I think 20% tax on asset windfalls is fair enough if we need to raise money quickly.

    I'd prefer that than any more NI rises or income tax threshold freezes.
    Problem is it means no one sells.

    Let’s say you buy a house for £200k and sell it for £300k because you want to move.

    Ignoring allowances and costs you have £100k in gross profit and £80k in net profit.

    So your £300k house can only be replaced with a £280k house - why would you move to a less nice property by choice?

    You need rollover relief which massively reduces the tax take
  • Cookie said:

    To change the mood a little, apost from Wythenshawe Hospital, where I sit in a wheelchair waiting for my foot to be bandaged up following a lawnmowing incident this afternoon.
    It wasn't as bad as it sounds. But oh, the blood! I managed to get the remnants of my shoe off and for a horrible moment thought that was bone sticking out of my second toe. But it was just skin. Then a knock at the door and Tony over the back fence - who I speak to, what, once a year on average - was there because he'd heard the screams and wanted to know if he could do anything. So my wife wrapped my bleeding foot in a towel and put it in a plastic bag and Tony drove me to hospital.
    Despite the discouraging sign saying 'average wait 6 hours' I was given a wheelchair as soon as I came through the door and triaged and x-rayed within half an hour.
    Not sure how long I'll be here for now - it's furiously busy - but it's looking likely I'll still have the use of all my toes by the time I'm done. I've lost my third choice trainers and a favourite pair of socks, but such is life.
    I don't really have a political or betting angle to this but thought I'd share.

    Ouch! And I thought I was being a little too relaxed this afternoon with my chainsaw. Managed not to remove any appendages happily.
  • kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.

    I think in general tax on wealth has to go up. As we are, if you're loaded but with a modest income you make little fiscal contribution to the nation's finances.
    Income tax rates have been high for many years. I've quite happily paid those taxes, and have finally managed to reach retirement. It'd be a little harsh if the burden now switches back on to me (and all the others similarly positioned)

    If you can find some way to assess wealth, then it's a reasonable tax, but anything along those lines surely should take into account the tax you've already paid. Such a model could be dovetailed quite nicely into inheritance tax too.
    In a sense it's harsh (on some). But I think we have a genuine case of TINA here. Either we find a way to squeeze more tax from wealth or we scale back what we expect the state to provide (inc for high priorities like health and defence).
    Wealth taxes are a nightmare. Way too complicated and intrusive. Better to tax residential property more effectively and then you will capture a large chunk of wealth while also being relatively simple and cheap to administer
    I've always thought the cgt exemption on principal private residences should be removed. It serves no purpose, but I have always accepted its removal would be politically difficult.

    Now would be the perfect time and it would be great if our politicians took the opportunity.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,261

    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.

    I think in general tax on wealth has to go up. As we are, if you're loaded but with a modest income you make little fiscal contribution to the nation's finances.
    Income tax rates have been high for many years. I've quite happily paid those taxes, and have finally managed to reach retirement. It'd be a little harsh if the burden now switches back on to me (and all the others similarly positioned)

    If you can find some way to assess wealth, then it's a reasonable tax, but anything along those lines surely should take into account the tax you've already paid. Such a model could be dovetailed quite nicely into inheritance tax too.
    In a sense it's harsh (on some). But I think we have a genuine case of TINA here. Either we find a way to squeeze more tax from wealth or we scale back what we expect the state to provide (inc for high priorities like health and defence).
    Wealth taxes are a nightmare. Way too complicated and intrusive. Better to tax residential property more effectively and then you will capture a large chunk of wealth while also being relatively simple and cheap to administer
    I agree about property but I suspect a more general wealth tax is more feasible than you think. You'd need to base it on self-assessment with serious enforcable penalties for lowballing.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/IKoshiw/status/1503049053210300417

    Guardian's Kyiv reporter corroborating stories of executions.

    This is just going to get more and more awful and nazi war machine very sadly. Sickening.

    Interestingly, opinion piece in Observer by their foreign editor says NATO needs to intervene now because it will have to anyway shortly or Putin will just keep going.

    I don't buy that position, but I think it will happen anyway.
    Why always the comparisons with Nazis? The better one is to Stalinism. Putin is doing just what Stalin did: the execution of opponents, random terror, suppression of all freedoms, cult of the leader, destruction of all opposition etc.

    He's another Stalin and a reminder of why so many in Eastern Europe fear Russia. Nothing good came out of it when Stalin was in charge. They swapped one lot of totalitarian atrocities for another.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.
    Absolutely we must tax unearned wealth including inheritances much more. But Rishi won't do it!
    Quite right too, better for the Tories to go into opposition than hit our core vote with such un Tory things as an inheritance and wealth tax. Remember Osborne's inheritance tax cut was hugely popular.

    In any case we pay our recommended 2% of gdp for defence by NATO, it is nations like Germany which have not but are now finally doing so after Putin's actions
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
    Depends how shit the countryside is

    Lancashire is pretty bleak in places, anyway

    I accept it is unlikely to happen in the Kentish Weald
    Lancashire South of Preston is shit but Bowland and the Wyre valley which I think are fracking country are among the most beautiful bits of England
    And heavily Tory.
    Fracking has very low, temporary impact unlike solar farms! Small surface footprint. Yes, increased road traffic can be an issue but similar to quarrying.
    Solar farms don't make a lot of economic sense. Sticking panels on the rooves of houses, offices, shops, industrial parks, etc., makes a lot of sense though.

    Fracking - the issue is that we simply don't have enough idea of what the long term costs are in the UK.

    If you go to the big US shale plays, you will have massive amounts of geological data available, from core samples, to seismic, to the drilling history of 300 wells nearby. You will know the optimal well bore spacing. You will know the correct formulation of fracking fluid.

    And most importantly, you will have an excellent idea of what initial flow rates will be, and what the decline curve will be.

    (You also have massive ranches without people on them.)

    That means that an oil & gas company can evaluate very easily what a well will produce and how expensive it will be.

    We have literally none of that information in the UK. It took about fifteen years from George Mitchell fracking his first gas well to the US being in a position to export gas. Now, some things are easier now (we know fracking works for sure). But some things are harder: the US had a lit of existing infrastructure than we don't.

    Fracking *may* work in the UK. But it also may not. Let's not forget that a dozen shales in the US have been effectively abandoned, because it takes only very small changes to your initial flow rate and decline curve assumptions to change the price of gas from $5 to $50/mmbtu.
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