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The polling that should scare Sunak and every Tory – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Didn't they have an enormous pay rise this year as well, because of all the extra work the pandemic caused?
    No about in line with inflation
    But a lot more than most Civil Servants are getting...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    You're right. Time to get back to the correct punishment for those who take pineapple on pizza.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Farooq said:

    Inflation = huge problem

    Not all workers or pensioners getting increases in line with inflation. Even those who do will pay tax at their highest rate on the increase so will be worse off in real terms

    People's hard worked for savings being eroded

    Bank of England doesn't seem bothered, no monetary policy control applied

    People associate inflation with Labour and will think 'may as well vote for the real thing'!

    😡😡😡😡😡

    They do?
    Of course we do. Correct me where I’m wrong It’s a tradition of British Politics. You only get inflation under Labour because they spend till there’s no money left, and award Union paymasters high wages for workers to perpetuate inflation. The Tory tradition is low wages to keep these things under control so businesses can investment more and grow the economy. You will never get proper Tories talking up high wages for everyone.

    One day you will post something Inactually agree with. 🙂
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
  • HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications and grades vastly higher than the average worker
    Why would you want to belittle teachers and can you provide a link to your assertion
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    3 years at university to get a degree followed by a year at "Teacher Training". I wouldn't call that nothing.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    edited March 2022
    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    It is for 450,000 civil servants and 600,000 teachers….

    Plus their families.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Didn't they have an enormous pay rise this year as well, because of all the extra work the pandemic caused?
    No about in line with inflation
    MPs deserve inflation matching pay rises but other public sector workers don’t? Gotcha.
    Actually MPs pay rose just 2.7% this year

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-pay-rise-2022-salaries-b2026011.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    edited March 2022
    Just because people choose a vocation doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to argue that that vocation deserves to be better rewarded or treated. Go that route and no one should be paid for a job they love, or a role that they think should not be driven by desire for wealth, since what other reward should they have than satisfaction of their calling, eh?

    It is true that nor should people compare what they know going in is to be a less remunerated position as compared with the financial rewards of other professions, and they can consider seeking other opportunities instead, but nor should we make these sorts of roles so onerous or unattractive that even if people want to follow a calling they find it extremely hard to do it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    biggles said:

    Farooq said:

    Inflation = huge problem

    Not all workers or pensioners getting increases in line with inflation. Even those who do will pay tax at their highest rate on the increase so will be worse off in real terms

    People's hard worked for savings being eroded

    Bank of England doesn't seem bothered, no monetary policy control applied

    People associate inflation with Labour and will think 'may as well vote for the real thing'!

    😡😡😡😡😡

    They do?
    Yeah I wondered. I associate inflation with the 80s/90s Tory Government. Maybe it’s an age thing.
    You're half right. It peaked (after the shenanigans of the 70s) around 1990 and has been fairly constant since then up until now.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/inflation-rate-cpi
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    edited March 2022
    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    It'd be a lot duller if we restricted ourselves only to the great issues of the day.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘Russian economy will shrink by 30% in a year’

    https://www.cityam.com/russian-economy-to-lose-nearly-third-of-its-value/

    That must be almost unprecedented

    Surprised it won't be more, IMO.

    (as ever, IANAE)
    And then there is black market isn’t there? That 30% replaced by invisible 30%?

    Except maybe not for social media influencers. Gosh I feel so sorry for them bawling their eyes out… NOT! 😈
    Russia’s lost GDP is not going to be replaced by “the black market”

    Putin is, in effect, inflicting damage on his economy equivalent to the wreckage from a world war. That chart says Belgium shrank by 32% from 1914-18

    And he’s doing it in one single year, if that prediction pans out
    Thank you. I’m not saying you are wrong in short term. Master and Margarita explained although communists took over things carried on as normal in some ways, with burgeoning black market/invisible market economy. That’s where I got it from.

    *art and culture post

    Are you there Leon? Who is top right? 😉

    PEEP SHOW - dir. Rino Stefano Tagliafierro

    https://vimeo.com/163017751

    “The viewer, as if spying through the keyhole, witnesses a personal show in which the most beautiful erotic icons of the classical period wink and show themselves off”

    My goodness Leon, we do look after you on this site

    Put £1 into the Vimeo slot to get all 7 minutes. I did 🤤

    You can trust me to find things like that. ☺️
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636

    biggles said:

    Farooq said:

    Inflation = huge problem

    Not all workers or pensioners getting increases in line with inflation. Even those who do will pay tax at their highest rate on the increase so will be worse off in real terms

    People's hard worked for savings being eroded

    Bank of England doesn't seem bothered, no monetary policy control applied

    People associate inflation with Labour and will think 'may as well vote for the real thing'!

    😡😡😡😡😡

    They do?
    Yeah I wondered. I associate inflation with the 80s/90s Tory Government. Maybe it’s an age thing.
    Maybe it is an age thing!

    That being said I am not sure CPI got to 5.4% at any time from 1997 to 2010.

    It (ok RPI, no CPI then) certainly did 1974 to 1979!
    It is interesting how our frames of reference are shaped by our past. For instance I will always be bitter about the LibDems because I liked the old Liberal Party.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,028
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    Inspiring children is a far greater value to society than any investment banker and on the evidence of our mps having higher qualifications then shame that they are making such a mess of our politics
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,159
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Didn't they have an enormous pay rise this year as well, because of all the extra work the pandemic caused?
    No about in line with inflation
    But a lot more than most Civil Servants are getting...
    No idea what we're likely to get. As usual the Treasury is fannying about with issuing this year's pay guidance
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Farooq said:

    Inflation = huge problem

    Not all workers or pensioners getting increases in line with inflation. Even those who do will pay tax at their highest rate on the increase so will be worse off in real terms

    People's hard worked for savings being eroded

    Bank of England doesn't seem bothered, no monetary policy control applied

    People associate inflation with Labour and will think 'may as well vote for the real thing'!

    😡😡😡😡😡

    They do?
    Yeah I wondered. I associate inflation with the 80s/90s Tory Government. Maybe it’s an age thing.
    Maybe it is an age thing!

    That being said I am not sure CPI got to 5.4% at any time from 1997 to 2010.

    It (ok RPI, no CPI then) certainly did 1974 to 1979!
    It is interesting how our frames of reference are shaped by our past. For instance I will always be bitter about the LibDems because I liked the old Liberal Party.
    And here I had you down as a relative youngster!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    And you can become a councillor despite having the social grace of a pubic louse.
    Bit unfair to pubic lice. Just ask any boy or girl pubic louse.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    ydoethur said:

    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    You're right. Time to get back to the correct punishment for those who take pineapple on pizza.
    Listening to Radiohead on repeat.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,611
    The war in Ukraine is providing an opportunity for the Belarussian opposition to militarise.

    https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya/status/1502954739176194055

    @Tsihanouskaya
    This is the Kastus Kalinouski battalion – a volunteer group of Belarusians formed to defend Ukraine. As a part of our Anti-War Movement, more and more people from Belarus join to help Ukrainians defend their country. Because we #StandWithUkraine.
    Слава Україні! Жыве Беларусь!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    Inspiring children is a far greater value to society than any investment banker and on the evidence of our mps having higher qualifications then shame that they are making such a mess of our politics
    I never said inspiring kids is not important but there is no reason state school teachers should be paid a fortune, ultimately by taxpayers
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,842
    edited March 2022
    Ukraine 1 Aston Villa 0. Great goal. Yarmolenko.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,481
    "Deputy Secretary of State Wendy R. Sherman told “Fox News Sunday” that Russian diplomats have started to show willingness to have “real, serious negotiations” to end the war in Ukraine, in part due to the crushing sanctions imposed on Russia's economy, but cautioned that President Vladimir V. Putin is still intent on continuing the war."

    NY Time blog
  • HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    You do not need evidence that she is a dunce

    It is there in the public arena
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    edited March 2022
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    And you wonder why teachers won’t vote for you….
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Not relevant on your criteria. You said Third at a Russell Group uni. Keele isn't one.

    And her degree was economics, sociology and social anthropology.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,625
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    Inflation between April 2020 and January 2022 has been 5.9% according to CPI, so a real terms pay cut since then.
    Average pay rise across the UK just 2% last year

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/18/average-pay-deal-britain
    I expect it to be much higher this time next year
    Agreed - but it’s also likely to be a real terms pay cut for a lot of people, possibly the majority.
    Yes, I expect you are right and I expect that the pressure for further increases will only grow.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    You have no clue at all, none, how good or bad a teacher @ydoethur is
    I know that he constantly whinges about being a teacher, and has said he and everyone he knows is on the verge of leaving the profession. I also know he despises the DofE.

    If someone so detests the profession they are in then I can't but think that it would be reasonably obvious to his students.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Keele AIUI isn't Russell Group!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,341
    biggles said:

    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    It is for 450,000 civil servants and 600,000 teachers….

    Plus their families.
    Yep. But they will not win much sympathy for their cause if they push it when most people in the private sector - without their income security - are suffering more than they are, and when there is an existential struggle going on not far from our doorstep.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    And with one post, your true nature is revealed. Yuck.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    edited March 2022
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.

    Edit: what libels, btw, that mods have had to delete. Genuinely interested.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ‘Russian economy will shrink by 30% in a year’

    https://www.cityam.com/russian-economy-to-lose-nearly-third-of-its-value/

    That must be almost unprecedented

    Surprised it won't be more, IMO.

    (as ever, IANAE)
    And then there is black market isn’t there? That 30% replaced by invisible 30%?

    Except maybe not for social media influencers. Gosh I feel so sorry for them bawling their eyes out… NOT! 😈
    Russia’s lost GDP is not going to be replaced by “the black market”

    Putin is, in effect, inflicting damage on his economy equivalent to the wreckage from a world war. That chart says Belgium shrank by 32% from 1914-18

    And he’s doing it in one single year, if that prediction pans out
    Thank you. I’m not saying you are wrong in short term. Master and Margarita explained although communists took over things carried on as normal in some ways, with burgeoning black market/invisible market economy. That’s where I got it from.

    *art and culture post

    Are you there Leon? Who is top right? 😉

    PEEP SHOW - dir. Rino Stefano Tagliafierro

    https://vimeo.com/163017751

    “The viewer, as if spying through the keyhole, witnesses a personal show in which the most beautiful erotic icons of the classical period wink and show themselves off”

    My goodness Leon, we do look after you on this site

    Put £1 into the Vimeo slot to get all 7 minutes. I did 🤤

    You can trust me to find things like that. ☺️
    How he has brought Hudson River School landscapes to life for dorna advert is very magical too. If some of his Thomas Cole or Asher Durand animations went on for hours I would stare at it for hours, lake rippling, birds in sky, occasional deer hopping down for a drink.

    Roaming or herding sheep. Take this detail from beeches, if this can’t sell bottled water nothing can 🥰

    image
  • I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
  • Leon said:

    OK, everyone on PB has been drinking except me. An unusual sensation

    I admit to my second coffee today
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Keele AIUI isn't Russell Group!
    And I can't find the class of her degree, though ti can't have been bad as she did postgraduate study in British government and politics at University of Essex - a MPP apparently not a research degree.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    You do not need evidence that she is a dunce

    It is there in the public arena
    Now, now. There are two possibilities - she could be stupid, or she could be deeply unpleasant.

    Or I suppose she could be both.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,341
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    And you wonder why teachers won’t vote for you….
    Mr Biggles, again, if you wanted to become a millionaire, if money is what motivates you to that extent, you simply should not go into teaching.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,369
    Not sure why people are pissing on teachers, says more about them. Sad.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Keele AIUI isn't Russell Group!
    And I can't find the class of her degree, though ti can't have been bad as she did postgraduate study in British government and politics at University of Essex - a MPP apparently not a research degree.
    A 2:2 would be accepted for that, although I think it was a 2:1.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,507
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Keele AIUI isn't Russell Group!
    54% of MPs did go to a Russell Group university.

    We are talking averages, even if some MPs did not go to Russell Group universities and some teachers did go to Russell Group universities

    https://twitter.com/suttontrust/status/1205533574646108160?s=19
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,478
    Leon said:

    OK, everyone on PB has been drinking except me. An unusual sensation

    I'm not. I'm on a dry month: no alcohol (*), no crisps, no biscuits, no cake (*) and a Run Every Day month.

    I *really* picked a bad month to go dry. With all the sh*t going on, I feel like being permanently pickled ... ;)

    (*) Except on my birthday. ;)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    TimT said:

    biggles said:

    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    It is for 450,000 civil servants and 600,000 teachers….

    Plus their families.
    Yep. But they will not win much sympathy for their cause if they push it when most people in the private sector - without their income security - are suffering more than they are, and when there is an existential struggle going on not far from our doorstep.
    I agree, but it doesn’t mean they won’t be worried about it. Also that point would have a bit more strength if this Government had show at least some interest in inflation matching pay rises when the private sector was exceeding them and the economy picking up…
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    biggles said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    And with one post, your true nature is revealed. Yuck.
    Just the one? Blimey were all my efforts this morning in vain?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    The war in Ukraine is providing an opportunity for the Belarussian opposition to militarise.

    https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya/status/1502954739176194055

    @Tsihanouskaya
    This is the Kastus Kalinouski battalion – a volunteer group of Belarusians formed to defend Ukraine. As a part of our Anti-War Movement, more and more people from Belarus join to help Ukrainians defend their country. Because we #StandWithUkraine.
    Слава Україні! Жыве Беларусь!

    If we are entering a new cold war, and it appears we are, then willingness to train up rebel groups in proxy conflicts (this one is more adjacent than proxy admittedly) may well be on the increase.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    edited March 2022
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
    I tend not to bother reading your posts in detail. You know what the libel was. Unless you are as stupid as you come across which I suppose is possible.

    One question for you. If I am such a bad teacher, why are people willing to pay large sums of money for me to act as a private tutor?

    It's not as though anyone is paying you for your military insights...
  • Jonathan said:

    Not sure why people are pissing on teachers, says more about them. Sad.

    I agree and @TOPPING comments to @ydoethur are unacceptable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Not relevant on your criteria. You said Third at a Russell Group uni. Keele isn't one.

    And her degree was economics, sociology and social anthropology.
    No I said you could get a third at a non Russell Group university as long as you had a degree
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    I don't think they shout 'God Save [Patricia] Scotland' at the Commonwealth Secretariat or the FCDO either in fairness, given reported efforts to shift her.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481

    I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?

    The entire Tory economic and tax plan was to cut income tax before the next election.

    That isn't going to happen and as Bill Clinton rightfully pointed out - it's the economy that wins or loses elections for the party in power.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Not relevant on your criteria. You said Third at a Russell Group uni. Keele isn't one.

    And her degree was economics, sociology and social anthropology.
    No I said you could get a third at a non Russell Group university as long as you had a degree
    Much harder to get funding to train as a teacher with a third, although they don't distinguish between unis in the way you do.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
    I tend not to bother reading your posts in detail. You know what the libel was. Unless you are as stupid as you come across which I suppose is possible.

    One question for you. If I am such a bad teacher, why are people willing to pay large sums of money for me to act as a private tutor?

    It's not as though anyone is paying you for your military insights...
    As I said I genuinely don't know what you are talking about wrt the libel. I will ask @rcs1000 what it is just to ensure I don't repeat it.

    And also, I am some random internet guy; you really don't have to try to justify your worth to me by telling me how valuable you apparently are. Even if it's true.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    edited March 2022

    I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?

    1) Successfully blaming any recession on Russia/international factors and using it to escape any blow back from Brexit choices;

    2) Rally round the flag “national effort” stuff like with Covid;

    3) The cycle inevitably turning and Starmer coming under pressure as the media concocts a “come back” narrative; and

    4) Bags of excess demand leading to a strong recovery and electoral bribes in 23/24.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,159
    TimT said:

    biggles said:

    Pensfold said:

    I don't think the great issue of the day is the salary of teachers and civil servants.

    It is for 450,000 civil servants and 600,000 teachers….

    Plus their families.
    Yep. But they will not win much sympathy for their cause if they push it when most people in the private sector - without their income security - are suffering more than they are, and when there is an existential struggle going on not far from our doorstep.
    I was easy about not getting a pay rise last year. I was paid in full throughout the pandemic and enjoyed the opportunity to work from home. Did some overtime. Ended up feeling flush as obviously there wasn't much to spend money on. This year is going to bite though. Although I'm taking the opportunity to dump some money into the mortgage and I pay off a loan in July that will make me a couple of hundred pounds a month better off.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,478

    Since when did a degree (alone) show intelligence?

    I don't have a degree, so I'll leave it to others to work out if not having a degree (alone) shows a lack of intelligence... ;)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,140
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    Since when did a degree (alone) show intelligence?

    It doesn't. But as it is so much more common now degree snobbishness seems on the rise for some.

    Presumably those of us with Masters should be listened to more than mere degrees, and we should all listen to those with Doctorates.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,611
    kle4 said:

    The war in Ukraine is providing an opportunity for the Belarussian opposition to militarise.

    https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya/status/1502954739176194055

    @Tsihanouskaya
    This is the Kastus Kalinouski battalion – a volunteer group of Belarusians formed to defend Ukraine. As a part of our Anti-War Movement, more and more people from Belarus join to help Ukrainians defend their country. Because we #StandWithUkraine.
    Слава Україні! Жыве Беларусь!

    If we are entering a new cold war, and it appears we are, then willingness to train up rebel groups in proxy conflicts (this one is more adjacent than proxy admittedly) may well be on the increase.
    It's more of a hot war than a cold war.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    And you wonder why teachers won’t vote for you….
    I was not disparaging teachers albeit teachers almost always vote Tory by less than the Tory national voteshare
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
    I tend not to bother reading your posts in detail. You know what the libel was. Unless you are as stupid as you come across which I suppose is possible.

    One question for you. If I am such a bad teacher, why are people willing to pay large sums of money for me to act as a private tutor?

    It's not as though anyone is paying you for your military insights...
    As I said I genuinely don't know what you are talking about wrt the libel. I will ask @rcs1000 what it is just to ensure I don't repeat it.

    And also, I am some random internet guy; you really don't have to try to justify your worth to me by telling me how valuable you apparently are. Even if it's true.
    Then why do you always do it about yourself? Honestly, @Leon was on to something when he accused you of projecting.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,708
    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    Everton going down. Vicious fixture list to come.
    We'll struggle to get 30 points.
    Points deduction next season too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    kle4 said:

    The war in Ukraine is providing an opportunity for the Belarussian opposition to militarise.

    https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya/status/1502954739176194055

    @Tsihanouskaya
    This is the Kastus Kalinouski battalion – a volunteer group of Belarusians formed to defend Ukraine. As a part of our Anti-War Movement, more and more people from Belarus join to help Ukrainians defend their country. Because we #StandWithUkraine.
    Слава Україні! Жыве Беларусь!

    If we are entering a new cold war, and it appears we are, then willingness to train up rebel groups in proxy conflicts (this one is more adjacent than proxy admittedly) may well be on the increase.
    It's more of a hot war than a cold war.
    Well depends if you're Ukrainian or not. For some reason the West's worries about escalation falls on deaf ears with them, I cannot think why.
  • biggles said:

    I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?

    1) Successfully blaming any recession on Russia/international factors and using it to escape any blow back from Brexit choices;

    2) Rally round the flag “national effort” stuff like with Covid;

    3) The cycle inevitably turning and Starmer coming under pressure as the media concocts a “come back” narrative; and

    4) Bags of excess demand leading to a strong recovery and electoral bribes in 23/24.
    5) Labours need to spend billions when there is no money
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,341
    I see an American NYT journalist, Brett Renaud, is reported shot dead by Russian soldiers in Irpin.
  • Labour isn't as far as I am aware, proposing to spend Billions at the moment.

    The argument seems to be that is what they will do - but I happen to think Starmer is a lot more shrewd than that and will go on something like the 1997 strategy.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
  • Labour being pro nuclear power I must say is a good move for them, the fear from the Greens to it is one of the biggest reasons I never vote that way
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    edited March 2022
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
    I tend not to bother reading your posts in detail. You know what the libel was. Unless you are as stupid as you come across which I suppose is possible.

    One question for you. If I am such a bad teacher, why are people willing to pay large sums of money for me to act as a private tutor?

    It's not as though anyone is paying you for your military insights...
    As I said I genuinely don't know what you are talking about wrt the libel. I will ask @rcs1000 what it is just to ensure I don't repeat it.

    And also, I am some random internet guy; you really don't have to try to justify your worth to me by telling me how valuable you apparently are. Even if it's true.
    Then why do you always do it about yourself? Honestly, @Leon was on to something when he accused you of projecting.
    I'm not sure I have done. Not to say never but I don't recall ever having to justify myself to anyone on here the way you have.
  • I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,647
    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636

    Labour isn't as far as I am aware, proposing to spend Billions at the moment.

    The argument seems to be that is what they will do - but I happen to think Starmer is a lot more shrewd than that and will go on something like the 1997 strategy.

    Yeah but we’re arguing about electoral lines not reality. He will be accused of it. Some sort of “we’re just recovering don’t let them ruin” line.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    Topping and YDoether; you're both very valued posters on PB, please hug it out or just ignore each other.

    I've offered to ignore him, in fact usually I do but he's off on one today and I thought he needed to be responded to, but I don't think judging from his increasingly inane and nasty posts he'll be ignoring me.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,140

    I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?

    The last couple of years have demonstrated that the political winds can and do change on a dime all the time. An election could easily be another 2+ years away. QED
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Careful I think the PB line is to say that it's all Russian propaganda.
  • biggles said:

    Labour isn't as far as I am aware, proposing to spend Billions at the moment.

    The argument seems to be that is what they will do - but I happen to think Starmer is a lot more shrewd than that and will go on something like the 1997 strategy.

    Yeah but we’re arguing about electoral lines not reality. He will be accused of it. Some sort of “we’re just recovering don’t let them ruin” line.
    Fair point.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,159
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    OK, everyone on PB has been drinking except me. An unusual sensation

    I admit to my second coffee today
    I'm sitting here wanting a coffee right now, but I'm in a comfy chair under a blanket. Can't get a coffee without getting cold.

    And people say those in Ukraine are suffering; what do they know?
    Having a late lunch in the Block in Tirana. A very acceptable half litre of house red. Roast pepper salad and Kosovo sausage. Today I went up a mountain by cable-car and then down into the bunker beneath it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,508
    ydoethur said:

    Topping and YDoether; you're both very valued posters on PB, please hug it out or just ignore each other.

    I've offered to ignore him, in fact usually I do but he's off on one today and I thought he needed to be responded to, but I don't think judging from his increasingly inane and nasty posts he'll be ignoring me.
    what was the libel, ducky?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Neither does being given EU candidate status, but symbolism does matter.
    It would be vetoed by India, Pakistan and SA, who are all studiously neutral on Ukraine
    Would much rather Ukraine as a Commonwealth Member than Pakistan.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,507
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    Pleased to note this morning that the NLAW delivers a 454g payload. Thank God we Brexited before Brussels discovered this.
    Feck, the Ukies will be drinking warm brown beer and cycling to whatever is the Eastern Orthodox equivalent of Evensong afore we know it.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,636
    edited March 2022

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Under the current loan system I don’t think I’d have pursued a degree - except maybe later via an apprenticeship or other work funded scheme. Arguably that’s now the rational choice if you’re not going to get an Oxbridge first.

    Which is awful for the humanities or pure science/maths.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    edited March 2022
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
    I tend not to bother reading your posts in detail. You know what the libel was. Unless you are as stupid as you come across which I suppose is possible.

    One question for you. If I am such a bad teacher, why are people willing to pay large sums of money for me to act as a private tutor?

    It's not as though anyone is paying you for your military insights...
    As I said I genuinely don't know what you are talking about wrt the libel. I will ask @rcs1000 what it is just to ensure I don't repeat it.

    And also, I am some random internet guy; you really don't have to try to justify your worth to me by telling me how valuable you apparently are. Even if it's true.
    Then why do you always do it about yourself? Honestly, @Leon was on to something when he accused you of projecting.
    I'm not sure I have done. Not to say never but I don't recall ever having to justify myself to anyone on here the way you have.
    Well, all I can say is you haven't read your own posts carefully enough. Which is not perhaps surprising. Boasting about your rank and connections ad nauseam is a funny way to try and not justify yourself.

    What I don't understand is why you feel the need to belittle others for being more successful than you. Much though I detest personally, I have never questioned your knowledge of military matters or contradicted you on them, because although you may have been a very bad officer you were an officer and have more insight than I do as although I was from a military family I would not have been able to serve in the army (as a teenage cancer survivor) although TBF I wouldn't have wanted to either. Why do you not extend the same courtesy to me over education?

    Anyway, back to ignore I think.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,478
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    A dear friend of mine is a teacher at a secondary school, and head of department(s) (history and politics, I think). She used to complain about her workload, until she saw how many hours Mrs J (*) worked. ;)

    Anecdata and all that, but from talking to her it depends on how much the syllabus changes. If there are large changes to the syllabus, she has to work cray hard over the summer. If there are not, then she has a quietish summer.

    (*) Recently promoted Mrs J, I must add. She is technically no longer an engineer, but a PHB with engineering pretensions... (**) ;)
    (**) I'm dead.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.

    The objection to a windfall tax on Shell is that it hits peoples' pensions. a shit argument because any pension fund which is more than 1% in Shell and BP combined needs its trustees' heads feeling, and the pensioners receive the benefit of the windfall tax along with the non-pensioners, a large and very impecunious group.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    That is a non-sequitur. See where you are falling down:

    Some As are Bs.
    Some As are not-Bs.
    Therefore B can be A or not-A.
  • Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    edited March 2022

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    A dear friend of mine is a teacher at a secondary school, and head of department(s) (history and politics, I think). She used to complain about her workload, until she saw how many hours Mrs J (*) worked. ;)

    Anecdata and all that, but from talking to her it depends on how much the syllabus changes. If there are large changes to the syllabus, she has to work cray hard over the summer. If there are not, then she has a quietish summer.

    (*) Recently promoted Mrs J, I must add. She is technically no longer an engineer, but a PHB with engineering pretensions... (**) ;)
    (**) I'm dead.
    The last five years have been nothing but changes to the syllabus.

    However, the real killer on workload over the last 18 months was the legal requirement to set specialised cover for those isolating with Covid. That doubled the planning load overnight. TAGs were pretty bad too, but only lasted 6 weeks.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,625

    Labour being pro nuclear power I must say is a good move for them, the fear from the Greens to it is one of the biggest reasons I never vote that way

    Nuclear will take many years to come on stream. It’s an easy thing for labour to support and relatively meaningless We need to solve the short and medium term issues first.

    We need to ensure we have energy security.
This discussion has been closed.