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The polling that should scare Sunak and every Tory – politicalbetting.com

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  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    Pleased to note this morning that the NLAW delivers a 454g payload. Thank God we Brexited before Brussels discovered this.
    Feck, the Ukies will be drinking warm brown beer and cycling to whatever is the Eastern Orthodox equivalent of Evensong afore we know it.
    They have a great craft beer scene and their own splittist (albeit Catholic) version of Orthodoxy anyway.

    Pravda Brewery of Lviv has apparently repurposed its bottling line to make Molotovs, and putting them in Путін Хуйло bottles of course
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    👍👍👍

    Enjoyed the 10 minutes added on though! 😈
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    dixiedean said:

    Everton going down. Vicious fixture list to come.
    We'll struggle to get 30 points.
    Points deduction next season too.

    Oh dear, how sad…..
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    Or of course you could leave PB and not have to read any comments I make criticising your friends in the government and their fraud and criminality.

    This would have the further benefit you would no longer bore us with your pushing of Russian propaganda.
    As I said, or you can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.

    Thing is, I feel sorry for your students. To have someone teaching who hates their profession so much must be awful for them. Really affecting their life chances.

    The sooner you leave teaching the better.
    My dear Topping, I will leave teaching having been a great success and risen rapidly through the ranks rapidly, loved by my students and leaving because I refuse to work for criminals like Susan Acland Hood. I appreciate that wouldn't bother you.

    You, however, left the Army on your own admission despised by your men, which is hardly surprising given you are a coward, a bully and a liar and particularly under the circumstances under which you left, and I feel sorry for those who served with you. Just today you spent all your time spouting about how expert you are on military matters while posting propaganda you haven't read or understood in a game of one upmanship.

    I usually ignore your stupid posts because they add nothing to PB and frankly you come across as a truly revolting human being whom I and it seems most other posters have no wish to talk to, quite apart from the lies, including libels, which the mods have had to delete.

    I'm quite happy to go back to ignoring you as long as you leave me alone too. Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time than engage with you.

    Do we have a deal?
    LOL.

    Get on with it then. Hurry up and leave teaching. Everyone will be happier once you do.

    Let us know when that happens.
    Is that a no?
    You missed my edit about the libels. V interested to know what they were that the mods had to delete. Perhaps you can teach me something albeit it is unlikely.
    I tend not to bother reading your posts in detail. You know what the libel was. Unless you are as stupid as you come across which I suppose is possible.

    One question for you. If I am such a bad teacher, why are people willing to pay large sums of money for me to act as a private tutor?

    It's not as though anyone is paying you for your military insights...
    As I said I genuinely don't know what you are talking about wrt the libel. I will ask @rcs1000 what it is just to ensure I don't repeat it.

    And also, I am some random internet guy; you really don't have to try to justify your worth to me by telling me how valuable you apparently are. Even if it's true.
    Then why do you always do it about yourself? Honestly, @Leon was on to something when he accused you of projecting.
    I'm not sure I have done. Not to say never but I don't recall ever having to justify myself to anyone on here the way you have.
    Well, all I can say is you haven't read your own posts carefully enough. Which is not perhaps surprising. Boasting about your rank and connections ad nauseam is a funny way to try and justify yourself.

    What I don't understand is why you feel the need to belittle others for being more successful than you. Much though I detest personally, I have never questioned your knowledge of military matters or contradicted you on them, because although you may have been a very bad officer you were an officer and have more insight than I do as although I was from a military family I would not have been able to serve in the army (as a teenage cancer survivor) although TBF I wouldn't have wanted to either. Why do you not extend the same courtesy to me over education?

    Anyway, back to ignore I think.
    There you go again with your life history. I really don't care. I only mention your teaching because you bore the shit out of us all telling us how much you hate it and you once said that you and everyone you knew was thinking of leaving the profession.

    The reason you first got so upset with me is because I called you on that. You said you were thinking of leaving and I said when were you planning on doing so. And then you went off on one. Still are, for that matter.

    But I am more interested in the libel. What was it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Farooq said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    Pleased to note this morning that the NLAW delivers a 454g payload. Thank God we Brexited before Brussels discovered this.
    Feck, the Ukies will be drinking warm brown beer and cycling to whatever is the Eastern Orthodox equivalent of Evensong afore we know it.
    Throwing chairs in some piazza during the Euros, you mean?
    For sure they won't be running away from Russian fans (if Russian fans are ever allowed to attend anything outside Russia ever again).
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    History at secondary comps and grammar, HOD/DH and Acting Head on retirement in 2008. Plenty of paperwork in those days too but much eased by computing - no doubt lots better now. Led my last school through 3 consecutive OFSTED inspections with outstanding rating each time. Still in touch with many ex-colleagues and students. Saw lots of fantastic teaching over the years and a fair bit not so good. I think oit's a great profession just not for everyone. Not lying about the whingeing sadly. Que sera .. as they actually don't say that often over here.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Do smokers get lung cancer? Y

    Do non-smokers get lung cancer? also Y

    So all we know is, some people get lung cancer.

    how does that argument look to you?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Everton going down. Vicious fixture list to come.
    We'll struggle to get 30 points.
    Points deduction next season too.

    Oh dear, how sad…..
    First time they have ever been outside the top division I believe.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited March 2022
    Farooq said:

    dixiedean said:

    Everton going down. Vicious fixture list to come.
    We'll struggle to get 30 points.
    Points deduction next season too.

    points deduction?
    Yeah. We have been struggling with Financial Fair Play (aka Big Six Protection rules) since the beginning of the season.
    Now we've lost Russian sponsors it is inevitable.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Do smokers get lung cancer? Y

    Do non-smokers get lung cancer? also Y

    So all we know is, some people get lung cancer.

    how does that argument look to you?
    Not really comparable.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    Pleased to note this morning that the NLAW delivers a 454g payload. Thank God we Brexited before Brussels discovered this.
    Feck, the Ukies will be drinking warm brown beer and cycling to whatever is the Eastern Orthodox equivalent of Evensong afore we know it.
    They have a great craft beer scene and their own splittist (albeit Catholic) version of Orthodoxy anyway.

    Pravda Brewery of Lviv has apparently repurposed its bottling line to make Molotovs, and putting them in Путін Хуйло bottles of course
    We should rebrand Russian Imperial Stout to Ukrainian and export it for free.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stout#Imperial_stout
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Neither does being given EU candidate status, but symbolism does matter.
    It would be vetoed by India, Pakistan and SA, who are all studiously neutral on Ukraine
    We could see if they fancy replacing Scotland in the U.K.?
    Turning up to Barnett negotiations with a Bayraktar.
  • Re nuclear I agree its practically meaningless but it is the principle I support. The objections are dangerous nonsense.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You mean, like Priti Patel?
    She did economics at Keele and any evidence she got a third?
    Not relevant on your criteria. You said Third at a Russell Group uni. Keele isn't one.

    And her degree was economics, sociology and social anthropology.
    No I said you could get a third at a non Russell Group university as long as you had a degree
    Eh? A third is a degree ...

    Your wor4ding, on checking, was

    "You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University."

    Comma missing, so it needs to be read with the comma in the first available location which also makes more sense than putting it later

    "You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class[,] or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University."

    Which invites the reading

    "You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class[from a Russell Gp uni,] or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University."

    But it's ambiguous anyway, so not conducive of conclusive debate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    History at secondary comps and grammar, HOD/DH and Acting Head on retirement in 2008. Plenty of paperwork in those days too but much eased by computing - no doubt lots better now. Led my last school through 3 consecutive OFSTED inspections with outstanding rating each time. Still in touch with many ex-colleagues and students. Saw lots of fantastic teaching over the years and a fair bit not so good. I think oit's a great profession just not for everyone. Not lying about the whingeing sadly. Que sera .. as they actually don't say that often over here.
    Hmm.

    So you aren't fully aware of all the changes and massively expanded workload in the last seven years?

    There are lots of reasons why workload has gone up. Part of it is the new structure. which creates extra layers of management who all need to justify their existence with myriad pointless initiatives. Part of it is the new exams, which were set by people who didn't understand assessments and have been a car crash. But also in recent years Covid itself has imposed enormous extra demands that are not being rolled back.

    I've been at the forefront of efforts in my school to cut the marking load, and to a great degree I've succeeded in that, but all that's done is free up the extra time for planning that Ofsted are now demanding evidence of to justify their existence.

    It is instructive that a colleague who 18 months ago said she had the best job in the world and wouldn't swap it for anything is now anxiously calculating how soon she can take her pension.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Until people point out it's a pensions tax.....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Aslan said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Everton going down. Vicious fixture list to come.
    We'll struggle to get 30 points.
    Points deduction next season too.

    Oh dear, how sad…..
    First time they have ever been outside the top division I believe.
    Well.
    Apart from the other two times.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Until people point out it's a pensions tax.....
    To quote myself...

    The objection to a windfall tax on Shell is that it hits peoples' pensions. a shit argument because any pension fund which is more than 1% in Shell and BP combined needs its trustees' heads feeling, and the pensioners receive the benefit of the windfall tax along with the non-pensioners, a large and very impecunious group.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Another signal the times they are a-changin' (thank you, Mr Zimmerman) comes from New Zealand where Jacinda Ardern (who seems to be a particular target of vitriol for some) may be in serious trouble.

    The latest 1 News Kantar Public poll (changes from Sept 20 election):

    National: 39.0% (+13.4)
    Labour: 35.0% (-15)
    Green: 9.0% (+1.1)
    ACT: 8.0 (+0.4)

    On that, the 3 Maori MPs would hold the balance of power with neither Labour/Green (58) or National/ACT (59) able to form a majority. An earlier Roy Morgan poll had National ahead 38-32. The two pollsters produce very different outcomes - Kantar tends to accentuate the duopoly (74%) while Roy Morgan scores the minor parties (Green, ACT) higher.

    We're almost exactly midway through the current NZ Parliamentary term - the next election will likely be mid September 2023.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    God Save the King is going to be even easier to sit stubbornly on our arses to than God Save the Queen.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Re nuclear I agree its practically meaningless but it is the principle I support. The objections are dangerous nonsense.

    I agree but labour need to say what they would do short and medium term and Windfall taxes are not really the solution.

    We’ve had Andy Burnham oppose fracking yesterday. They talk about a green new deal which, quite frankly, would take years to deliver results and every other green new deal has been a shambles which has delivered little except for companies who offered the services.

    I’m afraid we need oil and gas for the foreseeable future while we transition from fossil,fuels.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    dixiedean said:

    Aslan said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Everton going down. Vicious fixture list to come.
    We'll struggle to get 30 points.
    Points deduction next season too.

    Oh dear, how sad…..
    First time they have ever been outside the top division I believe.
    Well.
    Apart from the other two times.
    I stand corrected.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Nobody believes that any such tax is fair or justified - not really. Many are happy to believe that it's a fairly painless thing, and the oil companies (or others) have made so much hay that a little dent won't hurt them. To some extent that's true.

    However Labour are risking a great deal when, once again, they advocate something that is economically a bit dodgy. I'm astounded that Reeves hasn't vetoed such talk. The most likely thing to stop Labour is economic competance. Starmer's little help there, and they need to lock up Milliband, but Reeves isn't so bad.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Opinium:

    Lab 37% (-1)
    Con 35% (+1)
    LD 9% (-2)
    Grn 7% (+1)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    IshmaelZ said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Until people point out it's a pensions tax.....
    To quote myself...

    The objection to a windfall tax on Shell is that it hits peoples' pensions. a shit argument because any pension fund which is more than 1% in Shell and BP combined needs its trustees' heads feeling, and the pensioners receive the benefit of the windfall tax along with the non-pensioners, a large and very impecunious group.
    Shell and BP combined pay something like one sixth of all dividend payments, paid out by publicly quote companies, so it would hit a lot of people.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Sean_F said:



    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.

    I don't disagree but I struggle to see a Conservative CoE standing up and announcing that. As one of this site's staunchest Conservative loyalists repeatedly asserts, the Conservative Party is the party of inheritance. Even trying to sell what you propose in terms of strengthening the country's defences isn't going to be easy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Beautiful day, Sunday lunch at a proper south Devon pub....flying the Ukrainian flag.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Omnium said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Nobody believes that any such tax is fair or justified - not really. Many are happy to believe that it's a fairly painless thing, and the oil companies (or others) have made so much hay that a little dent won't hurt them. To some extent that's true.

    However Labour are risking a great deal when, once again, they advocate something that is economically a bit dodgy. I'm astounded that Reeves hasn't vetoed such talk. The most likely thing to stop Labour is economic competance. Starmer's little help there, and they need to lock up Milliband, but Reeves isn't so bad.

    It's not economically dodgy at all. Perfectly reasonable to tax windfall rents.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Neither does being given EU candidate status, but symbolism does matter.
    It would be vetoed by India, Pakistan and SA, who are all studiously neutral on Ukraine
    We could see if they fancy replacing Scotland in the U.K.?
    Turning up to Barnett negotiations with a Bayraktar.
    Hey, I just want to co-opt their President. Worked in the Glorious Revolution.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You are an academic snob.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You are an academic snob.
    If you really want to annoy him, tell him he's a walking advert for the poor quality of Russell Group degrees.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Beautiful day, Sunday lunch at a proper south Devon pub....flying the Ukrainian flag.

    The Royal Oak in Cannock was flying that earlier when I went out for a walk.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Omnium said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Nobody believes that any such tax is fair or justified - not really. Many are happy to believe that it's a fairly painless thing, and the oil companies (or others) have made so much hay that a little dent won't hurt them. To some extent that's true.

    However Labour are risking a great deal when, once again, they advocate something that is economically a bit dodgy. I'm astounded that Reeves hasn't vetoed such talk. The most likely thing to stop Labour is economic competance. Starmer's little help there, and they need to lock up Milliband, but Reeves isn't so bad.

    It’s a cheap political gimmick and ignores the huge losses both BP and shell made the year before.

    It also comes with huge risks. We still need BP and Shell, as well as others, to exploit gas and oil as well as lead the move to renewables. That is not cheap. It runs the risk of being totally counterproductive.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Omnium said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Nobody believes that any such tax is fair or justified - not really. Many are happy to believe that it's a fairly painless thing, and the oil companies (or others) have made so much hay that a little dent won't hurt them. To some extent that's true.

    However Labour are risking a great deal when, once again, they advocate something that is economically a bit dodgy. I'm astounded that Reeves hasn't vetoed such talk. The most likely thing to stop Labour is economic competance. Starmer's little help there, and they need to lock up Milliband, but Reeves isn't so bad.
    In the current climate, it's an easy thing to sell especially to hard pressed "Mansfield Man" waiting at the local petrol station where the price of unleaded has gone up another 3p per litre.

    To be fair, the commitment to a windfall tax was explicitly stated by Labour in its 1997 Manifesto. Didn't stop them winning a huge majority and grinding the Conservatives into the dust as I'm sure you remember.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not something we see Putin doing:

    Al Jazeera's Step Vaessen has asked Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy about the mental strain he's under after more than two weeks of war.

    He took questions from journalists in a secure compound in Kyiv ⬇️


    https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1503041948575227905
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    Pleased to note this morning that the NLAW delivers a 454g payload. Thank God we Brexited before Brussels discovered this.
    Feck, the Ukies will be drinking warm brown beer and cycling to whatever is the Eastern Orthodox equivalent of Evensong afore we know it.
    They have a great craft beer scene and their own splittist (albeit Catholic) version of Orthodoxy anyway.

    Pravda Brewery of Lviv has apparently repurposed its bottling line to make Molotovs, and putting them in Путін Хуйло bottles of course
    We should rebrand Russian Imperial Stout to Ukrainian and export it for free.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stout#Imperial_stout
    One Yorkshire brewery has already rebranded its Russian Imperial Stout, can't remember which one though.

    Of course, it was originally brewed by Barclay Perkins in London and sold into Russia by Herr Le Coq (despite the name, he was a Berliner).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    God Save the King is going to be even easier to sit stubbornly on our arses to than God Save the Queen.
    You sit stubbornly on Iain Blackford and Humza Yousaf when the National anthem comes on?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Well, 155.9p per litre for unleaded and 162.9p per litre for diesel didn't seem to be losing Tesco's any customers yesterday, Unfortunately, the petroleum dependent are prisoners and will pay almost any price for their addiction.

    I noted Shell's big profit announcement a few days ago and wondered if a windfall tax on those directly benefitting from high energy prices might not be a popular solution.

    Of course, that would include the Government for whom (presumably) increasing fuel levy will help offset the cost of dealing with the administration of the Ukrainian diaspora though unlikely to do much against the overwhelming calls for increased defence expenditure.

    As the post-Cold War Peace Dividend unravels, the problem is or are the expenditure structures which have evolved since the early 90s - given education and health are sacrosanct (it would seem), where is the balance in public finances? It seems there are still some clamouring for tax cuts but tax rises seem the only option.

    Yet, the immediate problem is inflation and wage rises chasing price rises (the 1970s called and would like their economics back, by the way) and the return of Union militancy. The Government may not mind a "summer of discontent" as strikers rival Russian oligarchs in the popularity stakes.

    Thinking aloud, I wonder if we are seeing a new "war on wealth" with those seemingly possessing Croesus-like levels of personal affluence the next group to be demonised as most people struggle.

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.
    Absolutely we must tax unearned wealth including inheritances much more. But Rishi won't do it!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Beautiful day, Sunday lunch at a proper south Devon pub....flying the Ukrainian flag.

    Raising a question.
    Where are all these Ukrainian flags coming from?
    Someone is on double overtime.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Neither does being given EU candidate status, but symbolism does matter.
    It would be vetoed by India, Pakistan and SA, who are all studiously neutral on Ukraine
    We could see if they fancy replacing Scotland in the U.K.?
    Turning up to Barnett negotiations with a Bayraktar.
    Hey, I just want to co-opt their President. Worked in the Glorious Revolution.
    That’s the problem with Unions: the bride comes with warts n all.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Or maybe it's the fact the proposed Russian terms leaves Ukraine even more at the mercy of Russia than before.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    It already is supplying it, offshore, AIUI. But not onshore in the UK, too small, geology too cooked/faulted.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    History at secondary comps and grammar, HOD/DH and Acting Head on retirement in 2008. Plenty of paperwork in those days too but much eased by computing - no doubt lots better now. Led my last school through 3 consecutive OFSTED inspections with outstanding rating each time. Still in touch with many ex-colleagues and students. Saw lots of fantastic teaching over the years and a fair bit not so good. I think oit's a great profession just not for everyone. Not lying about the whingeing sadly. Que sera .. as they actually don't say that often over here.
    Hmm.

    So you aren't fully aware of all the changes and massively expanded workload in the last seven years?

    There are lots of reasons why workload has gone up. Part of it is the new structure. which creates extra layers of management who all need to justify their existence with myriad pointless initiatives. Part of it is the new exams, which were set by people who didn't understand assessments and have been a car crash. But also in recent years Covid itself has imposed enormous extra demands that are not being rolled back.

    I've been at the forefront of efforts in my school to cut the marking load, and to a great degree I've succeeded in that, but all that's done is free up the extra time for planning that Ofsted are now demanding evidence of to justify their existence.

    It is instructive that a colleague who 18 months ago said she had the best job in the world and wouldn't swap it for anything is now anxiously calculating how soon she can take her pension.
    Extra 'workload' is another perennial teacher complaint - as I said I remain in touch with a large number of colleagues from my old school and who've moved on. You are claiming a uniqueness to the present state of the profession which I am sceptical about as most of those I know still enjoy the job in the main. I often wondered if many of those dissatisfied had unrealistic expectations of the nature of the job in the first place. I've seen versions of your main second paragraph written and spoken so many times throughout my career.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    God Save the King is going to be even easier to sit stubbornly on our arses to than God Save the Queen.
    You sit stubbornly on Iain Blackford and Humza Yousaf when the National anthem comes on?
    Cheeky, sir.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    dixiedean said:

    Beautiful day, Sunday lunch at a proper south Devon pub....flying the Ukrainian flag.

    Raising a question.
    Where are all these Ukrainian flags coming from?
    Someone is on double overtime.
    The West wanted to provoke a war with Russia, so it ensured there was a ready supply of Ukrainian flags on hand for propaganda purposes when it kicked off.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Opinium:

    Lab 37% (-1)
    Con 35% (+1)
    LD 9% (-2)
    Grn 7% (+1)

    So in Opinium old money that is what? Labout +6.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    History at secondary comps and grammar, HOD/DH and Acting Head on retirement in 2008. Plenty of paperwork in those days too but much eased by computing - no doubt lots better now. Led my last school through 3 consecutive OFSTED inspections with outstanding rating each time. Still in touch with many ex-colleagues and students. Saw lots of fantastic teaching over the years and a fair bit not so good. I think oit's a great profession just not for everyone. Not lying about the whingeing sadly. Que sera .. as they actually don't say that often over here.
    Hmm.

    So you aren't fully aware of all the changes and massively expanded workload in the last seven years?

    There are lots of reasons why workload has gone up. Part of it is the new structure. which creates extra layers of management who all need to justify their existence with myriad pointless initiatives. Part of it is the new exams, which were set by people who didn't understand assessments and have been a car crash. But also in recent years Covid itself has imposed enormous extra demands that are not being rolled back.

    I've been at the forefront of efforts in my school to cut the marking load, and to a great degree I've succeeded in that, but all that's done is free up the extra time for planning that Ofsted are now demanding evidence of to justify their existence.

    It is instructive that a colleague who 18 months ago said she had the best job in the world and wouldn't swap it for anything is now anxiously calculating how soon she can take her pension.
    Extra 'workload' is another perennial teacher complaint - as I said I remain in touch with a large number of colleagues from my old school and who've moved on. You are claiming a uniqueness to the present state of the profession which I am sceptical about as most of those I know still enjoy the job in the main. I often wondered if many of those dissatisfied had unrealistic expectations of the nature of the job in the first place. I've seen versions of your main second paragraph written and spoken so many times throughout my career.
    My dear felix, as my mother was a teacher for 40 years I was under no illusions about the profession, but it's obvious that whatever you are hearing from your colleagues is either very untypical - which is possible as I assume they work in a grammar school that's a stand-alone academy it will be atypical - or they are telling you what you want to hear, which is also very common among staff to heads.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?

    The voters can always be scared that the Opposition will make things worse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:



    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.

    I don't disagree but I struggle to see a Conservative CoE standing up and announcing that. As one of this site's staunchest Conservative loyalists repeatedly asserts, the Conservative Party is the party of inheritance. Even trying to sell what you propose in terms of strengthening the country's defences isn't going to be easy.
    In ordinary circumstances, it would be politically impossible, but these are not ordinary circumstances.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Omnium said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Nobody believes that any such tax is fair or justified - not really. Many are happy to believe that it's a fairly painless thing, and the oil companies (or others) have made so much hay that a little dent won't hurt them. To some extent that's true.

    However Labour are risking a great deal when, once again, they advocate something that is economically a bit dodgy. I'm astounded that Reeves hasn't vetoed such talk. The most likely thing to stop Labour is economic competance. Starmer's little help there, and they need to lock up Milliband, but Reeves isn't so bad.

    It isn’t obvious what practical limits there now are on any party, right, centre or left, printing and spending as much as it wants? If any ‘expert’ had seen the numbers for the spending during the pandemic in advance…..

    Labour’s problem is that it would be using QE to generate money to spend in order to, to a significant extent, counteract the side effects of QE. It’s easier for the Tories, since they don’t lose much sleep about the greater concentration of wealth, and won’t until they are surprised to find that voting homeowners have become a minority.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Meanwhile Putin is deploying the Wagner Group whose leaders seem to be Rodnoverists (Slavic pagans) which normally seems to ensure you are a complete c**t.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    IshmaelZ said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Until people point out it's a pensions tax.....
    To quote myself...

    The objection to a windfall tax on Shell is that it hits peoples' pensions. a shit argument because any pension fund which is more than 1% in Shell and BP combined needs its trustees' heads feeling, and the pensioners receive the benefit of the windfall tax along with the non-pensioners, a large and very impecunious group.
    I will repeat what I said on here a few weeks ago. Politicians are fecking stupid.
    I'm not sure we needed this for additional evidence of that.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    biggles said:

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Under the current loan system I don’t think I’d have pursued a degree - except maybe later via an apprenticeship or other work funded scheme. Arguably that’s now the rational choice if you’re not going to get an Oxbridge first.

    Which is awful for the humanities or pure science/maths.
    A red brick 2:1 still is well worth the money.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    and MPs?
    Also worth nothing he still doesn’t understand why it’s silly to compare them to the “average worker”.
    Why? The average teacher in the average comprehensive does not have qualifications vastly higher than the average worker
    To away and look into how an average is calculated. Then look at the requirements to be a qualified teacher.

    Edit - and I’m not even a great supporter of teachers wanting boosted pay!
    You can become a comprehensive teacher with a 3rd class or 2 2 degree from a non Russell Group University.

    You are unlikely to become an investment banker or MP with those qualifications.

    You might still be able to inspire kids in the classroom but does not mean you should be a millionaire
    You are an academic snob.
    If you really want to annoy him, tell him he's a walking advert for the poor quality of Russell Group degrees.
    Unusually I wouldn't wish to be so rude, but I was amused that an aspiring millionaire MP has to be fully loaded with a Russell Group First. I thought the crucial minimum qualifications were a dog off the street with deep pockets or a wealthy benefactor.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    No, unless you are stark raving mad.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    A genius at work, a sound that could only be made by one guitarist/band.

    https://twitter.com/wisetuna/status/1502659797455454210?s=21

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Aslan said:

    biggles said:

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Under the current loan system I don’t think I’d have pursued a degree - except maybe later via an apprenticeship or other work funded scheme. Arguably that’s now the rational choice if you’re not going to get an Oxbridge first.

    Which is awful for the humanities or pure science/maths.
    A red brick 2:1 still is well worth the money.
    Depends how good you are at throwing bricks
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    edited March 2022
    Aslan said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Or maybe it's the fact the proposed Russian terms leaves Ukraine even more at the mercy of Russia than before.
    I agree. I wouldn't agree to them either, but as discussed the other evening, we haven't seen any active engagement (in the form of counter proposals) on the Ukrainian side. My surmise was that Zelensky couldn't agree anything, without his coalition being in danger of falling apart, by which I meant that any compromises he made could cause his nutter wing to split off and make real chaos.

    Having read the article, it's Mariupol where most of these people are - under seige by Russia. By delaying any ceasefire, Zelensky knows that Putin will soon solve this problem for him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    malcolmg said:

    Aslan said:

    biggles said:

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Under the current loan system I don’t think I’d have pursued a degree - except maybe later via an apprenticeship or other work funded scheme. Arguably that’s now the rational choice if you’re not going to get an Oxbridge first.

    Which is awful for the humanities or pure science/maths.
    A red brick 2:1 still is well worth the money.
    Depends how good you are at throwing bricks
    There's mortar it than that.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    IanB2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Nobody believes that any such tax is fair or justified - not really. Many are happy to believe that it's a fairly painless thing, and the oil companies (or others) have made so much hay that a little dent won't hurt them. To some extent that's true.

    However Labour are risking a great deal when, once again, they advocate something that is economically a bit dodgy. I'm astounded that Reeves hasn't vetoed such talk. The most likely thing to stop Labour is economic competance. Starmer's little help there, and they need to lock up Milliband, but Reeves isn't so bad.

    It isn’t obvious what practical limits there now are on any party, right, centre or left, printing and spending as much as it wants? If any ‘expert’ had seen the numbers for the spending during the pandemic in advance…..

    Labour’s problem is that it would be using QE to generate money to spend in order to, to a significant extent, counteract the side effects of QE. It’s easier for the Tories, since they don’t lose much sleep about the greater concentration of wealth, and won’t until they are surprised to find that voting homeowners have become a minority.
    I think you're dead right. However if you as a voter are seriously concerned about the carefree economics being practised (I'm mildly terrified) then even more gay abandon won't be greeted well.

    Starmer and Labour are doing well, and on all fronts. To be elected though they need to work out their main 2010 issue that of economics.

    (I can't see myself ever voting Labour, but I no longer think that those who might are insane.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    A moving short film showing on BBC News, “Platform Five” by Fergal Keane, about the thousands of refugees flowing through Kyiv station, and some of their stories.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I just cannot see how the economic situation is good for another Tory win, can anyone provide a reasoned counter?

    The voters can always be scared that the Opposition will make things worse.
    That's a tough ask when the volume will already be turned up to 11.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Meanwhile Putin is deploying the Wagner Group whose leaders seem to be Rodnoverists (Slavic pagans) which normally seems to ensure you are a complete c**t.
    Yes, there are of course extreme undesirables on the Russian side.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    IshmaelZ said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Until people point out it's a pensions tax.....
    To quote myself...

    The objection to a windfall tax on Shell is that it hits peoples' pensions. a shit argument because any pension fund which is more than 1% in Shell and BP combined needs its trustees' heads feeling, and the pensioners receive the benefit of the windfall tax along with the non-pensioners, a large and very impecunious group.
    I will repeat what I said on here a few weeks ago. Politicians are fecking stupid. There is no need for a windfall tax. There is an existing mechanism for levying additional tax against oil revenues which has existed for decades - The Petroleum Revenue Tax. It was specifically designed so that it could be adjusted up and down to reflect the variations in oil price and the effect that has on oil companies viability - although the big companies survive, lots of Oil companies do go bust or get bought out during downturns. Since 2016 it has been set at zero because of the long slump in oil prices starting almost a decade ago. But the upturn of the last year or more and particularly the most recent jump, means that it could and should be increased from zero with little fuss and no arguments about 'windfalls'. And since it is charged on production it would have an equal effect on all UK oil and gas producers.

    This would be a very simple change to make but of course it might not have the fanfare that politicians like.
    It would have - they just need to use the word windfall as they increased the rate above 0...
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    IanB2 said:

    A moving short film showing on BBC News, “Platform Five” by Fergal Keane, about the thousands of refugees flowing through Kyiv station, and some of their stories.

    Not sure I want to watch that. Have used Pasazhyrsky a few times and it just brings it home to see familiar places. Seeing refugees in camp beds at Przemysl Station was so sad. It's where I caught the train to Lviv on my first visit to Ukraine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    @DanielKorski
    Perhaps Ukraine should be invited to join The Commonwealth @BorisJohnson? Ukraine should become an EU member but the bloc struggles to swap its technocratic model of accession for a strategic move. Inviting Ukraine to The @commonwealthsec would be a valuable signal of support


    https://twitter.com/DanielKorski/status/1503016507508416512

    It's essentially open to anyone these days, but not sure it comes with the sort of power backup they are looking for right now.
    Nor the financial clout, the support of which Ukraine is going to need in pretty much any future scenario. I'm open to correction but I'd be surprised if the vast majority of Ukrainians know of the existence of the Commonwealth, let alone the valuable 'symbolism' of membership.
    Don't even get to meet the Queen thesedays what with her needing a break from things, so lacks some glamour.
    Well, they sure aint shouting 'God save the Duke of Rothesay and Patricia Scotland' when they fire off their NLAWs.
    God Save the King is going to be even easier to sit stubbornly on our arses to than God Save the Queen.
    You sit stubbornly on Iain Blackford and Humza Yousaf when the National anthem comes on?
    Cheeky, sir.
    It was a bit hassock-istic of me.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    On the contrary, I always feel safe and happy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited March 2022

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    I didn't feel I could like a post which invited Leon to imagine you in your pyjamas. I just didn't altogether feel comfortable with this image...

    Glad you had a nice day though. It's just started raining here again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    malcolmg said:

    Aslan said:

    biggles said:

    I don't have a degree - I don't believe a degree shows intelligence.

    Do intelligent people get degrees. Yes.

    Do intelligent people not have degrees. Also yes.

    The commonality is that some people are intelligent.

    Just like arseholes

    Under the current loan system I don’t think I’d have pursued a degree - except maybe later via an apprenticeship or other work funded scheme. Arguably that’s now the rational choice if you’re not going to get an Oxbridge first.

    Which is awful for the humanities or pure science/maths.
    A red brick 2:1 still is well worth the money.
    Depends how good you are at throwing bricks
    Hi Malcolm.

    I fear I was pretty unforgiveably rude to you last night. I apologise. I was rather drunk and got rather irritated.

    Apologies.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Meanwhile Putin is deploying the Wagner Group whose leaders seem to be Rodnoverists (Slavic pagans) which normally seems to ensure you are a complete c**t.
    Yes, there are of course extreme undesirables on the Russian side.
    If you are defending your country against invaders, I don't think your political persuasion matters. If the Azov Brigade can kill Muscovites, good luck to them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    edited March 2022

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    I am perfectly happy , it is far from first time we have seen stuff like this. A bit closer to home but nothing to worry about just yet and pointless to worry even if it was.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    one for @RochdalePioneers and others in Scotland.

    Due to a recent solar flare you should see the Northern Lights tonight/
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    eek said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Windfall tax is a very shrewd move from Labour.

    Until people point out it's a pensions tax.....
    To quote myself...

    The objection to a windfall tax on Shell is that it hits peoples' pensions. a shit argument because any pension fund which is more than 1% in Shell and BP combined needs its trustees' heads feeling, and the pensioners receive the benefit of the windfall tax along with the non-pensioners, a large and very impecunious group.
    I will repeat what I said on here a few weeks ago. Politicians are fecking stupid. There is no need for a windfall tax. There is an existing mechanism for levying additional tax against oil revenues which has existed for decades - The Petroleum Revenue Tax. It was specifically designed so that it could be adjusted up and down to reflect the variations in oil price and the effect that has on oil companies viability - although the big companies survive, lots of Oil companies do go bust or get bought out during downturns. Since 2016 it has been set at zero because of the long slump in oil prices starting almost a decade ago. But the upturn of the last year or more and particularly the most recent jump, means that it could and should be increased from zero with little fuss and no arguments about 'windfalls'. And since it is charged on production it would have an equal effect on all UK oil and gas producers.

    This would be a very simple change to make but of course it might not have the fanfare that politicians like.
    It would have - they just need to use the word windfall as they increased the rate above 0...
    Why? They have varied the rate up and down loads of times in the past. All without the slightest murmur either from the Government or the Oil Companies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited March 2022
    Crufts has raised over £100,000 for Ukrainian dogs and their owners.

    As this afternoon’s climatic dogstravaganza gets underway…
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    First thing I do when I wake up is check the news. It isn’t good for the nerves. Some people I know, including my wife, are really stressed by it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    History at secondary comps and grammar, HOD/DH and Acting Head on retirement in 2008. Plenty of paperwork in those days too but much eased by computing - no doubt lots better now. Led my last school through 3 consecutive OFSTED inspections with outstanding rating each time. Still in touch with many ex-colleagues and students. Saw lots of fantastic teaching over the years and a fair bit not so good. I think oit's a great profession just not for everyone. Not lying about the whingeing sadly. Que sera .. as they actually don't say that often over here.
    Hmm.

    So you aren't fully aware of all the changes and massively expanded workload in the last seven years?

    There are lots of reasons why workload has gone up. Part of it is the new structure. which creates extra layers of management who all need to justify their existence with myriad pointless initiatives. Part of it is the new exams, which were set by people who didn't understand assessments and have been a car crash. But also in recent years Covid itself has imposed enormous extra demands that are not being rolled back.

    I've been at the forefront of efforts in my school to cut the marking load, and to a great degree I've succeeded in that, but all that's done is free up the extra time for planning that Ofsted are now demanding evidence of to justify their existence.

    It is instructive that a colleague who 18 months ago said she had the best job in the world and wouldn't swap it for anything is now anxiously calculating how soon she can take her pension.
    Extra 'workload' is another perennial teacher complaint - as I said I remain in touch with a large number of colleagues from my old school and who've moved on. You are claiming a uniqueness to the present state of the profession which I am sceptical about as most of those I know still enjoy the job in the main. I often wondered if many of those dissatisfied had unrealistic expectations of the nature of the job in the first place. I've seen versions of your main second paragraph written and spoken so many times throughout my career.
    My dear felix, as my mother was a teacher for 40 years I was under no illusions about the profession, but it's obvious that whatever you are hearing from your colleagues is either very untypical - which is possible as I assume they work in a grammar school that's a stand-alone academy it will be atypical - or they are telling you what you want to hear, which is also very common among staff to heads.
    Of course if it makes you feel better to dismiss the views of those who differ from yours as untypical fair enough. Alternatively they are just getting on with their job ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited March 2022

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Do people think fracking is feasible as a supply of gas to Europe?

    Depends on the country. Yes in Poland, no in the UK.
    This is all in dispute. If petrol hits £20 a litre and the economy goes into energy-starved Depression I suspect we’d suddenly find that those UK shale reserves are ‘recoverable’, after all
    Its not a question of recoverable. It is whether it is practical on a scale to make a difference. The scale of operations is radically different from conventional drilling either onshore or offshore. I can effectively drain a reasonably sized oil field with 4 or 5 wells all from a central wellhead- less if it is gas because the injector requirements are less. To effectively exploit the UK shale gas reserves you would need between 4000 and 6000 wells. In the US they have rigs sat a few hundreds yards from each other in a long rows marching across the countryside drilling wells because the tight formations can only be exploited to small multiples of the the length of the fractures. So you need LOTS of wells. I am not sure the least nimby of residents is prepared for such industrial levels of activity in the UK countryside.
    As a nimby resident near Llandow, an earlier Cuadrilla target, I concur.

    Not keen on the risk of geological destabilisation either.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    Voyeurs
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Sean_F said:

    I think inheritances will have to be taxed more heavily. The introduction of residential nil rate relief, means that at some point in this decade I will likely enjoy an additional £50,000 over and above what I would otherwise have inherited. That £50,000 is nice to have, but it's less essential than this country having adequate defences.

    I think in general tax on wealth has to go up. As we are, if you're loaded but with a modest income you make little fiscal contribution to the nation's finances.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited March 2022
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers standing for parliament either, indeed a number do but unless you are in a safe seat generally less job security
    Nothing stopping the "average Britain" from becoming a teacher either.

    You attempted the lazy "stop complaining" argument and I was happy to counter it.
    I believe we have some teachers on here. They have decided to become teachers which places them above some occupations and below others on the remunerative front. They have presumably decided that the benefits of being a teacher (imparting wisdom to the next generation, longer blocks of holidays, whatever else) are compensation enough for them not to seek other avenues of employment.

    If they are so unhappy being teachers then they can leave and become investment bankers or MPs or flint knappers or sit and tend their gardens.

    Or of course they can continue to be teachers and whinge like fuck about it on PB.
    I taught for 33 years before retiring at 55 and remain very comfortably off on my index linked pension. I can also testify from my experience that working long hours marking is simply unnecessary most of the time. Show me a truly overworked teacher and what you have is someone with an inability to prioritise and organise their time - better suited to another profession. I loved my time in the classroom and staffroom - the long holidays were a great bonus and excellent prep for a, so far, long and contented retirement. Oh and btw whingeing teachers date back to the old stone age classroom - all part of the gaiety of the profession...
    What subject did you teach and when did you retire?
    History at secondary comps and grammar, HOD/DH and Acting Head on retirement in 2008. Plenty of paperwork in those days too but much eased by computing - no doubt lots better now. Led my last school through 3 consecutive OFSTED inspections with outstanding rating each time. Still in touch with many ex-colleagues and students. Saw lots of fantastic teaching over the years and a fair bit not so good. I think oit's a great profession just not for everyone. Not lying about the whingeing sadly. Que sera .. as they actually don't say that often over here.
    Hmm.

    So you aren't fully aware of all the changes and massively expanded workload in the last seven years?

    There are lots of reasons why workload has gone up. Part of it is the new structure. which creates extra layers of management who all need to justify their existence with myriad pointless initiatives. Part of it is the new exams, which were set by people who didn't understand assessments and have been a car crash. But also in recent years Covid itself has imposed enormous extra demands that are not being rolled back.

    I've been at the forefront of efforts in my school to cut the marking load, and to a great degree I've succeeded in that, but all that's done is free up the extra time for planning that Ofsted are now demanding evidence of to justify their existence.

    It is instructive that a colleague who 18 months ago said she had the best job in the world and wouldn't swap it for anything is now anxiously calculating how soon she can take her pension.
    Extra 'workload' is another perennial teacher complaint - as I said I remain in touch with a large number of colleagues from my old school and who've moved on. You are claiming a uniqueness to the present state of the profession which I am sceptical about as most of those I know still enjoy the job in the main. I often wondered if many of those dissatisfied had unrealistic expectations of the nature of the job in the first place. I've seen versions of your main second paragraph written and spoken so many times throughout my career.
    My dear felix, as my mother was a teacher for 40 years I was under no illusions about the profession, but it's obvious that whatever you are hearing from your colleagues is either very untypical - which is possible as I assume they work in a grammar school that's a stand-alone academy it will be atypical - or they are telling you what you want to hear, which is also very common among staff to heads.
    Of course if it makes you feel better to dismiss the views of those who differ from yours as untypical fair enough. Alternatively they are just getting on with their job ...
    They might. And then again they might not.

    The thing is, as a union president I talk with a very great many active teachers, and I've never seen anything like this. It's really alarming how many feel just as I do. A great many more would be walking if they felt they could afford it.

    But if it makes you feel better to ignore the very problems there are and how widespread they are becoming, carry on. It's not as though it makes much difference, given you're retired and have certainly earned your pension.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    First thing I do when I wake up is check the news. It isn’t good for the nerves. Some people I know, including my wife, are really stressed by it.
    I woke up the day and read the BBC News headline of "Russia missile strikes hits NATO base in Poland" and almost had a heart attack. It was only on second reading that I realised it said "near".
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    IshmaelZ said:

    @TOPPING thanks for posting the article earlier. It was an interesting read. A few bits of it provided potential explanations to things that I'd been wondering about.

    Like, why were people perversely viewing Ukraine as the good guys in all this?
    I don't think that was the thrust of the article. It seemed quite dispassionate about both sides.

    It was more about the location of Mariupol being the main location of the Azov Brigade (the neo-Nazi sympathising ones), and that the Russians were unlikely to show them any quarter.

    It did occur to me that looking at it very cynically, perhaps this is another advantage for Zelensky in delaying a peace settlement - the Russians seem to be in the process of wiping out his embarrassing neo-Nazi wing, with the rest of his army left nicely intact.
    Meanwhile Putin is deploying the Wagner Group whose leaders seem to be Rodnoverists (Slavic pagans) which normally seems to ensure you are a complete c**t.
    Yes, there are of course extreme undesirables on the Russian side.
    If you are defending your country against invaders, I don't think your political persuasion matters. If the Azov Brigade can kill Muscovites, good luck to them.
    I agree, that's why they've been made part of the Ukrainian National Guard. However, what they are is still quite troubling. In the medium term it's a problem for Zelensky having an armed Neo-Nazi sympathising group as part of his aparatus, and it does seem unlikely that he could sell them a peace deal where any form of territorial (or frankly much else) compromise was involved. In that sense the Russian seige of Mariupol is a development not entirely to Zelensky's disadvantage.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Some thoughts from China:

    https://uscnpm.org/2022/03/12/hu-wei-russia-ukraine-war-china-choice/

    Time to cut their losses on Mr Putin?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited March 2022
    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Payrise season is coming up also

    Unless you're a teacher, in which case it's 'real terms pay freeze and massive cut in your pension.'

    While the DfE buy cheap booze and party illegally. And get away with it.

    This is not being well received, oddly.
    New teachers got a 5.5% payrise in 2020 and of course teachers still get better pensions than the average worker
    You may not have noticed, but the majority of teachers are not new teachers.

    And removing the index linking by stealth doesn't even guarantee the second part of your sentence is true.
    What are they doing to the pension? The Civil Service scheme is now a career average scheme, with an NRA of State Pension Age, but they've maintained the index linking. And everyone got to keep accrued benefits of course.
    They have declared that there is to be no index linking for anyone who didn't get a pay rise this year. They also refused a nominal £1 pay rise to resolve the situation on the grounds 'this would not be an appropriate use of public money.'

    They apparently said that without irony, which given the ways they are using public money, often illegally, is even more shocking.

    Officially the removal is for this year only, but given they are on their own admission criminals I don't trust them not to find a way to extend it.
    Average teacher pension though still equates to £30,000 a year compared to the average British pension of only £21,000 a year

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/teachers-pension-scheme-protected-to-ensure-it-remains-among-most-lucrative

    https://www.wealthadviser.co/2021/05/26/300889/average-uk-expected-retirement-income-gbp1k-year
    How does it compare to the pension of investment bankers?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming investment bankers who are not, as far as I'm aware, paid for by the state.
    OK - how does it compare to the pension of MPs?
    Nothing to stop teachers becoming MPs, if that is the pension they want.
    So then why did @HYUFD make the stupid comparison in the first place?
    It is not stupid, the point remains teachers get a good pension compared to the average worker
    But teaching used to be a reasonably high status profession - high enough to rank alongside medics and lawyers to sign a passport photo, for example. "Average worker" is what? Shop assistant? Delivery driver? Teachers used to be professionals, and having been appointed, just got on with the job.

    As a profession, it has been downgraded and deskilled by a succession of third rate Tory ministers, who were just about good enough to be accountants. I think that is what some of our friends are complaining of, at heart.
    I think you underplay the role of Labour, but I agree that is part of the problem.

    However, I think it's the chaos brought to a head by Covid caused by years of maladministration and ill-thought-through reforms that is the real problem.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    Voyeurs
    More like rubbernecking.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Aslan said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    I apologise if my previous posts this afternoon were too cheerful which is why they ignored and no likes. I do appreciate the truth is We all feel Complete opposite from safe and happy. We all have a shadow cast across us. And how we each react our different ways to such things, short tempered or angry with others in what we can’t control, or depressed and weighed down by what we can’t control. Catching up on The news from war zone is worst thing ever 😣 I find my resilience tested. Almost like Putin has merely been moving into position from outside to in position inside last few weeks before now he is properly getting on with serious and brutal total takeover all over the place.

    This country is bread basket of the world too As Zelenskyy said they should be sowing, not shooting. Even if an explosion doesn’t kill anyone there, the explosion causes starving in Africa (to steal bit from someone else’s sermon.)

    All talk from Moscow of progress in negotiation is just bollocks, Putin isn’t going to stop, every elected politician at all levels in Ukraine is going to disappear with a bag over their head and be replaced by a puppet.

    Thank goodness Lesia Vasylenko is out the country and safe in Europe! she become the new recognised leader in exile I am suspecting now if things continue to go wrong like this

    Several friends have independently told me that the first thing they do, these days, on waking - is pick up the phone and see if Putin has dropped a nuke or gassed a city. I am the same

    That is not good for the nerves
    First thing I do when I wake up is check the news. It isn’t good for the nerves. Some people I know, including my wife, are really stressed by it.
    I woke up the day and read the BBC News headline of "Russia missile strikes hits NATO base in Poland" and almost had a heart attack. It was only on second reading that I realised it said "near".
    The attack on the nuclear power plant had the same impact on me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    A genius at work, a sound that could only be made by one guitarist/band.

    https://twitter.com/wisetuna/status/1502659797455454210?s=21

    Good things do occasionally come out of Essex.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    eek said:

    one for @RochdalePioneers and others in Scotland.

    Due to a recent solar flare you should see the Northern Lights tonight/

    Ooh, thanks!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited March 2022
    A tough turn into the weaves on this agility course for the coming final…

    The intermediates go first, a field of eleven
This discussion has been closed.