If you want an entertaining twitter account to follow (albeit one that demonstrates how unfair the world of work actually is) https://twitter.com/PayGapApp is tweeting the paygap of all firms that are posting about International Woman's Day.
Doing Richard Herring's job for him International Men's day is on November 19th before anyone asks
I agree that Patel is not the right home secretary at this time
I listened to her at the dispatch box yesterday and she is forceful and seemed to respond to the questions, but clearly her words are not being matched by evidence in the field and she has utterly failed on the channel crossings
Certainly the situation in Calais is unacceptable and unless she rapidly improves then the criticism will justifiably increase
Morning! So glad that you have now understood the true position on this issue.
As I posted yesterday I wanted to hear Patel 's version at the dispatch box and listening to her she was on top of her brief but then the figures of 300 out of 17,700 were released last night and like the channel crossings Patel's words ro not relate to action
This may of course be down to the civil servants and a general lack of urgency, but clearly some checks are needed, as indeed labour have agreed, but the most important part of all of this is just common sense and discretion
I expect a lot of the Ukrainians do not have passports or even documents and computer says no is just not acceptable
Patel needs to ramp up and speed up the approvals
No reason to expect that. The first thing you take is your identity papers unless you are making yourself deliberately stateless. All Ukrainians have ID cards. But PP is welcome to establish a sonderkommando to deal with the edgiest of edge cases where people turn up with absolutely nothing.
Not easy if your home has been flattened by a Russian shell, mind.
Yes there are edge cases. OTOH if your docs have been flattened chances are, so have you, so fewer than you suggest
Fpt for @foxy on unexpected travel by ye olden people
Check out the amazing World of Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum. It’s so good I’m going back again this week. I’ve NEVER revisited a temporary exhibition before
They have this thing called the NEBRA SKY DISC. The oldest known map of the cosmos. 4000 years old. A flat metallic orrery. Unearthed a few years ago in Germany. Yet the gold embedded in it… comes from Cornwall
Or see the buried archer from near Stonehenge. The Amesbury grave. Also about 4000 years old. Yet this guy was born in the Alps?!
It’s a mind blowing, spine tingling exhibition. Go!
Am I right in thinking that DNA from animal bones showed livestock from all over the UK was eaten in feasts? Ancients got around a bit.
In all the excitement of fleeing a warzone I left my driving licence passport and utility bill on the kitchen table. Do I need to go back and get it?
Do you think someone turning up Calais saying they are Ukrainian should be allowed in no questions asked?
How many faux ukraniens do you think are plotting to exploit this loophole and to turn up with no papers at all and no papered person to vouch for them? How many do you think would falsely persuade a Home Office team advised by native Ukrainian speakers they were the real deal?
Whites only?
Serious question as there are immigrants in Ukraine, too. Note that the test is about residency rather than nationality.
Oh look, an edge case.
She can fast track whites, if she wants to enhance her reputation within the party, sure.
But that snide remark is precisely why every case has to be done the same way.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
As I wrote, we are all entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts.
And it wasn’t a “Campaigning Pamphlet” it was a 600+ page White Paper Prospectus for independence.
AEP argues that Vlad is fecked if we cut off buying his oil. May not even be able to pay his troops.
While we can replace the oil we aren't in a position to replace Russian Gas which is why Vlad has made the announcement that if you don't buy the oil we aren't supplying the gas.
I agree that Patel is not the right home secretary at this time
I listened to her at the dispatch box yesterday and she is forceful and seemed to respond to the questions, but clearly her words are not being matched by evidence in the field and she has utterly failed on the channel crossings
Certainly the situation in Calais is unacceptable and unless she rapidly improves then the criticism will justifiably increase
Morning! So glad that you have now understood the true position on this issue.
As I posted yesterday I wanted to hear Patel 's version at the dispatch box and listening to her she was on top of her brief but then the figures of 300 out of 17,700 were released last night and like the channel crossings Patel's words do not translate into action
This may of course be down to the civil servants and a general lack of urgency, but clearly some checks are needed, as indeed labour have agreed, but the most important part of all of this is just common sense and discretion
I expect a lot of the Ukrainians do not have passports or even documents and computer says no is just not acceptable
Patel needs to ramp up and speed up the approvals
Slightly perhaps in my MP's defence, the department she is responsible for, the Home Office, has a very poor track record in dealing with 'foreigners', alleged illegal immigrants and the like. As anyone who was on, or whose parents were on, the Windrush and who didn't, a few years ago, apply for a passport or otherwise demonstrate their Britishness will tell you.
She hasn't, though, demonstrated that she's done anything to improve the situation.
Mr. eek, my favourite International Women's Day memory is RTing and replying to someone who cited Empress Irene, pointing out she usurped her son, and mutilated him so brutally he died of his wounds.
I was then blocked, the initial tweet deleted, and the chap reposted essentially the same thing, but with the claim the initial tweet had had a typo in it, hence deletion.
I think she's doing fine. The immediate safety of people fleeing Ukraine is the priority. Regarding whether they can then come to the UK, I would prefer the approach of getting it right and making the system workable and sustainable. Ireland's actions, as we heard yesterday, may cause real issues in the longer term.
Give me a valid reason Why?
Because without any valid reason all I'm seeing is racist xenophobia in your post.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
The national right recognised by the UN doesn’t go into the details of how the right should be exercised. Scotland had a referendum. There is a question of when it is appropriate to have a second referendum. To characterise that as a denial of a UN-recognised right is tendentious.
Mr. eek, my favourite International Women's Day memory is RTing and replying to someone who cited Empress Irene, pointing out she usurped her son, and mutilated him so brutally he died of his wounds.
I was then blocked, the initial tweet deleted, and the chap reposted essentially the same thing, but with the claim the initial tweet had had a typo in it, hence deletion.
I agree that Patel is not the right home secretary at this time
I listened to her at the dispatch box yesterday and she is forceful and seemed to respond to the questions, but clearly her words are not being matched by evidence in the field and she has utterly failed on the channel crossings
Certainly the situation in Calais is unacceptable and unless she rapidly improves then the criticism will justifiably increase
Morning! So glad that you have now understood the true position on this issue.
As I posted yesterday I wanted to hear Patel 's version at the dispatch box and listening to her she was on top of her brief but then the figures of 300 out of 17,700 were released last night and like the channel crossings Patel's words ro not relate to action
This may of course be down to the civil servants and a general lack of urgency, but clearly some checks are needed, as indeed labour have agreed, but the most important part of all of this is just common sense and discretion
I expect a lot of the Ukrainians do not have passports or even documents and computer says no is just not acceptable
Patel needs to ramp up and speed up the approvals
No reason to expect that. The first thing you take is your identity papers unless you are making yourself deliberately stateless. All Ukrainians have ID cards. But PP is welcome to establish a sonderkommando to deal with the edgiest of edge cases where people turn up with absolutely nothing.
Not easy if your home has been flattened by a Russian shell, mind.
That would be an exception, again it doesn't justify not following common sense when a Ukrainian family terms up with valid paperwork
By not applying common sense when the paperwork is clearly visible we just creating make work and hassle for ourselves while revealing how racist and xenophobic we have as a country become.
And they can now overfly Germany, not detour like the RAF used to have to do:
🚨 #UKRAINE | Western weapons have been flooding into Ukraine over the last few days. This video shows just one day of NATO transport aircraft moving cargo to Poland near the border with Ukraine. The cargo is then moved into Ukraine by road to assist in the fight against Russia.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
I agree that Patel is not the right home secretary at this time
I listened to her at the dispatch box yesterday and she is forceful and seemed to respond to the questions, but clearly her words are not being matched by evidence in the field and she has utterly failed on the channel crossings
Certainly the situation in Calais is unacceptable and unless she rapidly improves then the criticism will justifiably increase
I think this goes to the heart of the problem: this government seems to have honed the art of saying what they think people want to hear in the moment.
For a long time this was accompanied by a strong dose of the belief that "powerful assertion" magically makes things come to pass.
That's why they genuinely didn't believe they were lying to start with. Just that operational people were letting them down.
Experience has now told them that assertion isn't enough - and so doing the same thing has tipped over from magical thinking into flat out lying, on almost every topic, all the time. When they are not lying, it is because reality happens to coincide with what they are saying, but this is coincidence not intent.
The Russia's war in Ukraine has brought this clearly into focus. Where the Government had done good work (on intelligence, training, and weapons for Ukraine), their assertions are true. Where they have not (e.g. refugees, asylum), their assertions are lies. They want it all to be true. But they are not competent to make it so.
“The Kremlin spent the last 20 years trying to modernize its military,” said Andrei V. Kozyrev, the foreign minister for Russia under Boris Yeltsin, in a post on Twitter. “Much of that budget was stolen and spent on mega-yachts in Cyprus. But as a military advisor you cannot report that to the President. So they reported lies to him instead. Potemkin military.”
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
The national right recognised by the UN doesn’t go into the details of how the right should be exercised. Scotland had a referendum. There is a question of when it is appropriate to have a second referendum. To characterise that as a denial of a UN-recognised right is tendentious.
The right recognised by the UN is laughable at the moment when the UN has passed no security council resolution on Russian invasion of Ukraine due to Russian veto. The UK also has a veto as has China if it invaded Taiwan. The UN is powerless against the P5 effectively, we are in the P5.
The UN also did sod all when Spain refused a Catalan independence referendum
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
In all the excitement of fleeing a warzone I left my driving licence passport and utility bill on the kitchen table. Do I need to go back and get it?
Do you think someone turning up Calais saying they are Ukrainian should be allowed in no questions asked?
How many faux ukraniens do you think are plotting to exploit this loophole and to turn up with no papers at all and no papered person to vouch for them? How many do you think would falsely persuade a Home Office team advised by native Ukrainian speakers they were the real deal?
Whites only?
Serious question as there are immigrants in Ukraine, too. Note that the test is about residency rather than nationality.
Oh look, an edge case.
She can fast track whites, if she wants to enhance her reputation within the party, sure.
But that snide remark is precisely why every case has to be done the same way.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
“The Kremlin spent the last 20 years trying to modernize its military,” said Andrei V. Kozyrev, the foreign minister for Russia under Boris Yeltsin, in a post on Twitter. “Much of that budget was stolen and spent on mega-yachts in Cyprus. But as a military advisor you cannot report that to the President. So they reported lies to him instead. Potemkin military.”
Fpt for @foxy on unexpected travel by ye olden people
Check out the amazing World of Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum. It’s so good I’m going back again this week. I’ve NEVER revisited a temporary exhibition before
They have this thing called the NEBRA SKY DISC. The oldest known map of the cosmos. 4000 years old. A flat metallic orrery. Unearthed a few years ago in Germany. Yet the gold embedded in it… comes from Cornwall
Or see the buried archer from near Stonehenge. The Amesbury grave. Also about 4000 years old. Yet this guy was born in the Alps?!
It’s a mind blowing, spine tingling exhibition. Go!
Very much looking forward to this. I've steadily paid my BM membership for 2 years with exactly 1 visit in that time (almost 2 years ago today at the end of the Troy exhibition!)
I believe Malc now backs Alba, as he realises the SNP will do sod all about independence as long as they have their backsides on House of Commons seats plus fine dining and expenses and as long as Sturgeon gets to stay in Bute House as First Minister
If only Farage and the Tory nutters had had such a mature outlook
They backed the Brexit Party when May failed to deliver Brexit
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
As I wrote, we are all entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts.
And it wasn’t a “Campaigning Pamphlet” it was a 600+ page White Paper Prospectus for independence.
Yes, that protects the facts, but not your risible misinterpretation of what consequences flow from them - in this case none. What Salmond or his party or his govt said is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT no matter how many times you reiterate that Oooooh but Miss, he said Jehovah! I heard him!!!
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
"What is the purpose of your visit sir?" "Spying. No. Shit. Visiting Salisbury Cathedral. No. Ah. Yes. I need to buy some Mr Tumble DVDs?"
AEP argues that Vlad is fecked if we cut off buying his oil. May not even be able to pay his troops.
Hell has officially frozen over - I agree with AEP.
The fact he mentioned in the piece that the US is supplying LNG now and that Europe's gas reserves are being replenished not drained now, combined with us moving into Spring, means that its now possible even if Russia threatens to turn off the gas which it probably wouldn't have been a couple of months ago.
Somewhat ironically the way that Gazprom have been dicking around for months with European gas supplies has probably aided Europe to detox from Russian gas in a way that wouldn't be possible had they not done that and it was a threatened cold turkey turning off of the gas pipes.
Putin's failed or backfired in every single one of his strategic ambitions it seems.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
That really is pathetic when ex Putin cronies can pay £££££££ to spend time with our Tory PMs and Foreign Secs.
I strongly, fiercely believe any Ukrainian with a passport should be allowed to enter Britain today, no questions asked. This is the greatest humanitarian crisis in Europe since World War 2
I also accept that there are huge, complex problems with identifying real Ukrainians at the Calais crossing when we simultaneously have a massive illegal migration crisis, with - literally - tens of thousands of people using that same crossing, yearly, to illicitly smuggle themselves into the UK. Very often people we do not want
Why is it so hard for people to accept these two things are in conflict, making this a horribly complex issue, not quickly solved? I’m sure the government is fucking up, that’s what governments do. I’m also sure it’s not staffed by Nazis trying to keep weeping Ukrainians out
I reckon a Labour Home Secretary would be struggling just as much as Priti Patel
AEP argues that Vlad is fecked if we cut off buying his oil. May not even be able to pay his troops.
While we can replace the oil we aren't in a position to replace Russian Gas which is why Vlad has made the announcement that if you don't buy the oil we aren't supplying the gas.
Doesn't gas demand drop massively at the end of winter ?
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
I was not particularly referring to Russians but the activities of the smugglers in the Calais area
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
As I wrote, we are all entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts.
And it wasn’t a “Campaigning Pamphlet” it was a 600+ page White Paper Prospectus for independence.
Yes, that protects the facts, but not your risible misinterpretation of what consequences flow from them - in this case none. What Salmond or his party or his govt said is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT no matter how many times you reiterate that Oooooh but Miss, he said Jehovah! I heard him!!!
That is your opinion, to which you are entitled.
Others are entitled to different opinions - something you appear to struggle with.
The current “consequences” is that there is no referendum planned, nor one in prospect. So not, I would suggest “ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT” however much you might wish it to be the case.
“The Kremlin spent the last 20 years trying to modernize its military,” said Andrei V. Kozyrev, the foreign minister for Russia under Boris Yeltsin, in a post on Twitter. “Much of that budget was stolen and spent on mega-yachts in Cyprus. But as a military advisor you cannot report that to the President. So they reported lies to him instead. Potemkin military.”
Sounds very plausible. Maybe the Russian war effort will collapse sooner than expected.
The idea of someone who worked for the Boris Yeltsin government complaining about corruption and inefficiency is... interesting. Expertise, I suppose...
Several people have commented that the previous Russian Defence Minister
Got kicked out, in 2012, for upsetting lots of people with an anti-corruption drive. Particularly looking at equipment not working or not existing, but reported as AOK.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
"What is the purpose of your visit sir?" "Spying. No. Shit. Visiting Salisbury Cathedral. No. Ah. Yes. I need to buy some Mr Tumble DVDs?"
Like the days when one was asked on entry to the US, whether or not one had the intention of overthrowing the US Govt. Or something similar.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
The only check should be showing a passport. Ukrainian women & children please come in. If they don't have papers then that's an edge case and we should treat them warmly and humanely whilst identity is checked. Not tell them to go away as we have done from the start.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
As I wrote, we are all entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts.
And it wasn’t a “Campaigning Pamphlet” it was a 600+ page White Paper Prospectus for independence.
Yes, that protects the facts, but not your risible misinterpretation of what consequences flow from them - in this case none. What Salmond or his party or his govt said is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT no matter how many times you reiterate that Oooooh but Miss, he said Jehovah! I heard him!!!
That is your opinion, to which you are entitled.
Others are entitled to different opinions - something you appear to struggle with.
And yet others are plain bloody wrong about things. I mean, you are entitled to the opinion that the moon is made of celery.
If you even think about joining NATO we will invade you. If you are in NATO we probably won't. Therefore, please stop wanting to join NATO.
8n the future, the EU will have its own defence force, that could defend RUkraine. Of course, I don't see how that's any better for Russia. But I suppose it won't be lead by the US or include the UK. So perhaps its more palatable.
I expect the UK will be very much part of the EU defence planning and indeed a closer relationship all round
I doubt it, and I most certainly hope not. An independent army is an essential feature of a free country.
So Scotland isn't a free country?
Most certainly is NOT. We are ruled by bour much bigger neighbour who will not let us be independent or join the EU. Strange parallels with just the bombs missing.
Your absurdity is barely exceeded these days by your language. The only people stopping Scottish independence are Scottish voters.
How does that work? Scottish voters just turned out in record numbers to vote in a national election to elect a record number of pro-independence MSPs. And are being told no by the Essicks Massiv, that however we vote we can't have it.
A 'once in a generation vote'.
That is a bare faced lie, show me where in the Edinburgh agreement that was written, and do not give me the bollox fact that Salmond said on a broadcast that it was a once in ageneration chance. BARE FACED LIE.
It was in the Scottish Government’s prospectus “Scotland’s Future”.
In black and white.
Written down.
Not some “off the cuff” remark in a TV interview as some of the more credulous Nats like to claim.
Bloody hell, was it worth carrying this over from a previous thread? For the millionth bloody time, he wasn't and had no right to bind anyone to any future course of action. It's just a thing people say at referendums.
And OK it's an ad hominem point but why sit on bloody Jersey trying to bully the Scots? Either move to the Hebrides, or concentrate your fire on the Sark separatists.
Are the only people allowed to have an opinion on the future of the U.K. resident in the Hebrides?
I’m just interested in keeping Malc straight on the facts - we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
And the “once in a generation” was in an official Scottish Government publication, not some “off the cuff remark”.
I am open to the argument that it’s optimistic to believe much the SNP says, but them’s the facts of what they wrote.
No, it's just the relentless peering through other peoples' front curtains. When you are not telling Malc he has to belong in the UK you are telling the rest of us how grateful and happy we are to live in Brexit Britain. Come and try it.
I note you have no answer to Malc’s “wrong” facts.
Since you appear to have developed a stalkerish interest in my physical location I now live in “Brexit Britain”.
And for your general education, Sark is part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, not Jersey. And in irony of ironies had democracy imposed on it against the popular will….
I have rehearsed for the 3m th time why your point is utter nonsense. It suggests you think that a campaigning pamphlet can arbitrarily suspend a national right recognises by the UN. It is just embarrassing garbage.
Glad to welcome you into the fold. It's nice here.
As I wrote, we are all entitled to our own opinions, not our own facts.
And it wasn’t a “Campaigning Pamphlet” it was a 600+ page White Paper Prospectus for independence.
Yes, that protects the facts, but not your risible misinterpretation of what consequences flow from them - in this case none. What Salmond or his party or his govt said is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT no matter how many times you reiterate that Oooooh but Miss, he said Jehovah! I heard him!!!
That is your opinion, to which you are entitled.
Others are entitled to different opinions - something you appear to struggle with.
And yet others are plain bloody wrong about things. I mean, you are entitled to the opinion that the moon is made of celery.
When is the referendum?
The current “consequences” is that there is no referendum planned, nor one in prospect. So not, I would suggest “ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT” however much you might wish it to be the case.
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
Dover - Calais is still our primary surface entry port. Where people have made their way across Europe by land are we to then tell them they need to fly in for the last leg?
Not that they can - refused permission to board as we aren't letting them in.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
The only check should be showing a passport. Ukrainian women & children please come in. If they don't have papers then that's an edge case and we should treat them warmly and humanely whilst identity is checked. Not tell them to go away as we have done from the start.
I totally agree and time for common sense in huge dollops
Anyway, another day sitting here in my office (ground floor former bank with my house at the side / upstairs in a big U-shaped building) with someone walking around upstairs above me. The building is empty apart from me and two cats. And no, its not the cats...
I strongly, fiercely believe any Ukrainian with a passport should be allowed to enter Britain today, no questions asked. This is the greatest humanitarian crisis in Europe since World War 2
I also accept that there are huge, complex problems with identifying real Ukrainians at the Calais crossing when we simultaneously have a massive illegal migration crisis, with - literally - tens of thousands of people using that same crossing, yearly, to illicitly smuggle themselves into the UK. Very often people we do not want
Why is it so hard for people to accept these two things are in conflict, making this a horribly complex issue, not quickly solved? I’m sure the government is fucking up, that’s what governments do. I’m also sure it’s not staffed by Nazis trying to keep weeping Ukrainians out
I reckon a Labour Home Secretary would be struggling just as much as Priti Patel
Quicker we process them, less time for forgers to produce high quality fake Ukr passports - presumably not a big industry till 2 weeks ago. Home Office assessors with native Ukr advisers for the paperless.
Fpt for @foxy on unexpected travel by ye olden people
Check out the amazing World of Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum. It’s so good I’m going back again this week. I’ve NEVER revisited a temporary exhibition before
They have this thing called the NEBRA SKY DISC. The oldest known map of the cosmos. 4000 years old. A flat metallic orrery. Unearthed a few years ago in Germany. Yet the gold embedded in it… comes from Cornwall
Or see the buried archer from near Stonehenge. The Amesbury grave. Also about 4000 years old. Yet this guy was born in the Alps?!
It’s a mind blowing, spine tingling exhibition. Go!
Very much looking forward to this. I've steadily paid my BM membership for 2 years with exactly 1 visit in that time (almost 2 years ago today at the end of the Troy exhibition!)
I'm going down tomorrow.
Ah. I hope I haven’t oversold it. I don’t think I have. It’s stunning.
The only problem is the intensity and scale. If you’re into history - especially wonderfully mysterious pre-history - it is quite overwhelming
My advice: take your time. There will probably be crowds. Be patient. Expect to stay 3 hours… or more. Try and see everything. It’s all amazing. The curators spent ten years - ten years! - putting together the exhibition, and it shows. Don’t miss the glowing red amber thing at the beginning.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
"What is the purpose of your visit sir?" "Spying. No. Shit. Visiting Salisbury Cathedral. No. Ah. Yes. I need to buy some Mr Tumble DVDs?"
Like the days when one was asked on entry to the US, whether or not one had the intention of overthrowing the US Govt. Or something similar.
That form included "Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the German National Socialist Workers Party?".
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I don't know what information is on the Ukrainian ID card, but a brief look at the eligibility rules suggests that the biggest problem will be proving Ukrainian residency prior to 1 January 2022.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
I believe Malc now backs Alba, as he realises the SNP will do sod all about independence as long as they have their backsides on House of Commons seats plus fine dining and expenses and as long as Sturgeon gets to stay in Bute House as First Minister
I have no doubt he’s absolutely correct in that assumption.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
"What is the purpose of your visit sir?" "Spying. No. Shit. Visiting Salisbury Cathedral. No. Ah. Yes. I need to buy some Mr Tumble DVDs?"
Like the days when one was asked on entry to the US, whether or not one had the intention of overthrowing the US Govt. Or something similar.
What did you do between 1932 and 1945? Have you ever worked for a foreign intelligence service?
Isn't there a story of someone famous saying "yes, but only for the good guys" in response to the latter, and being told by the immigration official that they really ought to just say "no"?
Fpt for @foxy on unexpected travel by ye olden people
Check out the amazing World of Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum. It’s so good I’m going back again this week. I’ve NEVER revisited a temporary exhibition before
They have this thing called the NEBRA SKY DISC. The oldest known map of the cosmos. 4000 years old. A flat metallic orrery. Unearthed a few years ago in Germany. Yet the gold embedded in it… comes from Cornwall
Or see the buried archer from near Stonehenge. The Amesbury grave. Also about 4000 years old. Yet this guy was born in the Alps?!
It’s a mind blowing, spine tingling exhibition. Go!
Very much looking forward to this. I've steadily paid my BM membership for 2 years with exactly 1 visit in that time (almost 2 years ago today at the end of the Troy exhibition!)
I'm going down tomorrow.
Ah. I hope I haven’t oversold it. I don’t think I have. It’s stunning.
The only problem is the intensity and scale. If you’re into history - especially wonderfully mysterious pre-history - it is quite overwhelming
My advice: take your time. There will probably be crowds. Be patient. Expect to stay 3 hours… or more. Try and see everything. It’s all amazing. The curators spent ten years - ten years! - putting together the exhibition, and it shows. Don’t miss the glowing red amber thing at the beginning.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
Dover - Calais is still our primary surface entry port. Where people have made their way across Europe by land are we to then tell them they need to fly in for the last leg?
Not that they can - refused permission to board as we aren't letting them in.
A hybrid option might be to provide the documentation at a big centre in Poland and then admit them at some other port (Zeebrugge - Hull?). Use the RFA to ship them across?
We have to avoid the rush to Calais. It will be a mess.
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
No it's not. There are British citizens who have rescued their relatives from Ukrainian who have gone through hell who now have issues at Calais. They should not have to have any issues at this point. It is heartless. And this is not Twitter or do you think those people interviewed in Calais and Poland on the BBC were fictional.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
Those are staggering figures and we should remember every day Ukraine is receiving more and more NATO weapons
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I don't know what information is on the Ukrainian ID card, but a brief look at the eligibility rules suggests that the biggest problem will be proving Ukrainian residency prior to 1 January 2022.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
As the Home Office, Priti Patel and your typical Tory voter doesn't want them we have to thrown some impossible barriers in the way to stop them actually getting in.
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
There are loads of safe ferry crossings from Calais everyday. What are you on about?
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
If a Russian spy wanted to enter the UK, they could just enter the UK. There’s no ban on Russians entering the country. They could come on a tourist visa. They’d have to lie on their visa application, but if a Russian spy can’t manage that level of subterfuge, I don’t think we’ve got anything to worry about!
"What is the purpose of your visit sir?" "Spying. No. Shit. Visiting Salisbury Cathedral. No. Ah. Yes. I need to buy some Mr Tumble DVDs?"
Like the days when one was asked on entry to the US, whether or not one had the intention of overthrowing the US Govt. Or something similar.
That form included "Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the German National Socialist Workers Party?".
I seem to recall something about having been a member of the Communist Party, too.
The Australians used to have, possibly still do, a question about criminal convictions, and the 'wags' used to ask about desirability.How many who did that were actually allowed in I don't know. On our first entry to Australia, some 30+ years ago we'd waited in a long queue with the immigration officers going through many of the other passengers off the plane in detail. When awe reached the front the officer simply looked at us, looked att our passports briefly and said 'the way out to the taxis is over there'.
One also has to ask, why would any Ukrainian refugee - having escaped bombed out Kharkiv, afterwards fleeing to Lviv, then crossing to the border - thereafter make their way by bus train and car all the way across Europe. To Calais?!
What’s the point in that? Are you actually hoping to cross in a terribly dangerous dinghy? Why do that, when you can turn up at the british Embassy in Paris - or anywhere - and get your documents stamped and you’re in the UK safely? No boats required?
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I don't know what information is on the Ukrainian ID card, but a brief look at the eligibility rules suggests that the biggest problem will be proving Ukrainian residency prior to 1 January 2022.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
As the Home Office, Priti Patel and your typical Tory voter doesn't want them we have to thrown some impossible barriers in the way to stop them actually getting in.
Patel is actually not a million miles from public opinion on this.
While 76% of British voters back taking in some Ukranian refugees, as we are, just 15% of British voters are willing to accept hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees into the UK
As usual in these polls people generally picked a middle option. But there has always been a willingness to accept genuine refugees from a desperate situation if they came through an official channel. The way we're making the official channel as difficult as possible does not reflect most people's wishes as they see the catastrophe unfolding on their sscreens.
Responsibility for resettling refugees in my borough is in my portfolio. We've received exactly three families through the Home Office system so far. We've said repeatedly that we'll be glad to take more, and I know many other boroughs are doing the same. Instead, the Government is housing large numbers of Afghans in hostels at taxpayers' expense while they ponder the paperwork, and making the process ludicrously difficult for Ukrainians.
Why?
Good point about the 'middle option' bias. I've done work with surveys of htis kind* and the preferred approach to this kind of hting is generally not to offer a range of options, but to give each person just one randomly assigned choice from the available options (i.e. should we take 100k refugees, yes or no?). Then model the responses to find the mean and median acceptable number. Does mean you potentially need a bigger sample though...
*in one project we actually compared approaches - one multiple choice per person and one yes/no with a random amount asked. For the multiple choice the responses clustered around the middle (and stayed at the middle when we tried two different sets of options on different people with a different middle value). The yes/no question gave higher answers.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
By almost any way of slicing the number of losses, and making adjustments for exaggeration, it looks like Russia is losing more personnel per week than it did in the worst years of the Soviet-Afghan War.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
I strongly, fiercely believe any Ukrainian with a passport should be allowed to enter Britain today, no questions asked. This is the greatest humanitarian crisis in Europe since World War 2
I also accept that there are huge, complex problems with identifying real Ukrainians at the Calais crossing when we simultaneously have a massive illegal migration crisis, with - literally - tens of thousands of people using that same crossing, yearly, to illicitly smuggle themselves into the UK. Very often people we do not want
Why is it so hard for people to accept these two things are in conflict, making this a horribly complex issue, not quickly solved? I’m sure the government is fucking up, that’s what governments do. I’m also sure it’s not staffed by Nazis trying to keep weeping Ukrainians out
I reckon a Labour Home Secretary would be struggling just as much as Priti Patel
They aren't Nazis. But the policy is clearly to keep asylum seekers out and has been for a good while longer than this war has been going on.
The rest of Europe collectively said "no problem, we will look after you". We could have done the same, instead we offered them the ability to come pick fruit.
Its truly shaming of this country. And as Simon Hoare pointedly observes, it is counter our approach to previous crises like this including the one that saw Patel's parents countrymen flee.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
By almost any way of slicing the number of losses, and making adjustments for exaggeration, it looks like Russia is losing more personnel per week than it did in the worst years of the Soviet-Afghan War.
How long can their morale last with this level of attrition?
One also has to ask, why would any Ukrainian refugee - having escaped bombed out Kharkiv, afterwards fleeing to Lviv, then crossing to the border - thereafter make their way by bus train and car all the way across Europe. To Calais?!
What’s the point in that? Are you actually hoping to cross in a terribly dangerous dinghy? Why do that, when you can turn up at the british Embassy in Paris - or anywhere - and get your documents stamped and you’re in the UK safely? No boats required?
I can see why HMG is somewhat suspicious
They are travelling by land. Dover - Calais is the primary land crossing point. There is NO legal way to travel here by air or by Eurostar. What else would you have them do?
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
Must be a booming trade in Ukrainian language lessons in that part of France.
Nicola Sturgeon won’t be leader at next Scottish independence referendum Hope of a vote next year has gone with the Ukraine war and many Scots are happy to park the independence question
Hard times force hard thinking upon even politicians unaccustomed to dealing with the world as it really is rather than as they might imagine it to be. These are shivering times for Europe and while Scotland’s concerns may seem comparatively trivial in that continental context, the tremors of war in Ukraine may be felt even here. Some cherished beliefs need to be recalculated and wishful thinking is among the first casualties of war.
If you were unwise enough to think there might be another independence referendum next year, President Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is but the latest event that should dispel those illusions. When even Ian Blackford, the SNP’s Westminster leader, accepts this is not the time to be prattling on about independence…..
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
There are loads of safe ferry crossings from Calais everyday. What are you on about?
Of course there are. But the moment word gets out that the UK is letting people across from Calais with minimal checks there will be a huge rush to the camps - from all nationalities.
I'm playing Devil's Advocate somewhat. I can see why the Home Office instinct is to be very cautious, even if that leads to real-world cruelty to Ukrainian refugees. When the Daily Mail get hold of a 30 year old undocumented man who appears to actually be from Africa the whole thing is undermined.
Patel is actually not a million miles from public opinion on this.
While 76% of British voters back taking in some Ukranian refugees, as we are, just 15% of British voters are willing to accept hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees into the UK
As usual in these polls people generally picked a middle option. But there has always been a willingness to accept genuine refugees from a desperate situation if they came through an official channel. The way we're making the official channel as difficult as possible does not reflect most people's wishes as they see the catastrophe unfolding on their sscreens.
Responsibility for resettling refugees in my borough is in my portfolio. We've received exactly three families through the Home Office system so far. We've said repeatedly that we'll be glad to take more, and I know many other boroughs are doing the same. Instead, the Government is housing large numbers of Afghans in hostels at taxpayers' expense while they ponder the paperwork, and making the process ludicrously difficult for Ukrainians.
Why?
Good point about the 'middle option' bias. I've done work with surveys of htis kind* and the preferred approach to this kind of hting is generally not to offer a range of options, but to give each person just one randomly assigned choice from the available options (i.e. should we take 100k refugees, yes or no?). Then model the responses to find the mean and median acceptable number. Does mean you potentially need a bigger sample though...
*in one project we actually compared approaches - one multiple choice per person and one yes/no with a random amount asked. For the multiple choice the responses clustered around the middle (and stayed at the middle when we tried two different sets of options on different people with a different middle value). The yes/no question gave higher answers.
Why not give each respondent a randomly shuffled set of multiple choice questions and take account of the position of the question in each set?
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
This is absolute toss and you'd have to be a fucking mug to fall for it.
Just because Ukraine are the Ewoks and Russia is the Empire that doesn't mean we have to swallow their bullshit.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
Those are staggering figures and we should remember every day Ukraine is receiving more and more NATO weapons
Currently (for instance) they claim that they can verify 143 destroyed / captured Russian tanks. If nearly half the number claimed by the Ukranians can be directly verified from open source intelligence sources, it does suggest that the Ukranian numbers are not that far from reality.
(Ukranian numbers on that webpage are probably undercounting by a wider margin as the Ukranians are probably less likely to share their own losses & the Russians aren’t sharing much at all?)
Regardless of the outcome of this war, these are staggering losses. At some point, the Russian military is going to have to choose between maintaining security garrisons elsewhere in the Russian empire & putting more armour into Ukraine.
Fpt for @foxy on unexpected travel by ye olden people
Check out the amazing World of Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum. It’s so good I’m going back again this week. I’ve NEVER revisited a temporary exhibition before
They have this thing called the NEBRA SKY DISC. The oldest known map of the cosmos. 4000 years old. A flat metallic orrery. Unearthed a few years ago in Germany. Yet the gold embedded in it… comes from Cornwall
Or see the buried archer from near Stonehenge. The Amesbury grave. Also about 4000 years old. Yet this guy was born in the Alps?!
It’s a mind blowing, spine tingling exhibition. Go!
Very much looking forward to this. I've steadily paid my BM membership for 2 years with exactly 1 visit in that time (almost 2 years ago today at the end of the Troy exhibition!)
I'm going down tomorrow.
Ah. I hope I haven’t oversold it. I don’t think I have. It’s stunning.
The only problem is the intensity and scale. If you’re into history - especially wonderfully mysterious pre-history - it is quite overwhelming
My advice: take your time. There will probably be crowds. Be patient. Expect to stay 3 hours… or more. Try and see everything. It’s all amazing. The curators spent ten years - ten years! - putting together the exhibition, and it shows. Don’t miss the glowing red amber thing at the beginning.
I'm sure you haven't; I'm really interested in the prehistoric cultural connections - particularly the migration of ideas in the mesolithic/neolithic and neolithic/bronze age transitions, so I find Stonehenge and its landscape especially interesting in how it is repurposed over that "Phase III" period.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I don't know what information is on the Ukrainian ID card, but a brief look at the eligibility rules suggests that the biggest problem will be proving Ukrainian residency prior to 1 January 2022.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
As the Home Office, Priti Patel and your typical Tory voter doesn't want them we have to thrown some impossible barriers in the way to stop them actually getting in.
Sorry but that is simply untrue
73% of conservative voters support resettling Ukrainian refugees
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
Must be a booming trade in Ukrainian language lessons in that part of France.
I still like my idea that anyone attempting to enter the UK without documents should be deemed to have automatically enlisted in the Royal Navy. Let 'em come....
And yes, there will be "Ukrainians" appearing in Calais who don't speak Ukrainian or Russian or know anything or anyone to do with Ukraine. A few hundred would be my guess. They will be ridiculously easy to spot.
The Calais thing is a massive red herring. The Home Office is quite right to deter that route to the UK. It's dangerous and a boon to human traffickers.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
No it's not. There are British citizens who have rescued their relatives from Ukrainian who have gone through hell who now have issues at Calais. They should not have to have any issues at this point. It is heartless. And this is not Twitter or do you think those people interviewed in Calais and Poland on the BBC were fictional.
Why have they gone to Calais? Known for its murderously dangerous, illegal Channel crossings, run by people traffickers?
These Ukrainians are not dumb (and they are deserving of all our sympathy) but if you have exited Ukraine, then decided to not stop anywhere in mainland Europe, and instead go all the way to France, why would you avoid the multiple british embassies and consulates on the way, and instead head straight for the most dangerous crossing point of all? This is not something you can do in a moment. It takes days of planning and travel
Perhaps you enjoy imperilling yourself, after your thrilling experience of being bombed in Kyiv. Or maybe HMG is justified in a certain skepticism
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
This is absolute toss and you'd have to be a fucking mug to fall for it.
Just because Ukraine are the Ewoks and Russia is the Empire that doesn't mean we have to swallow their bullshit.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I don't know what information is on the Ukrainian ID card, but a brief look at the eligibility rules suggests that the biggest problem will be proving Ukrainian residency prior to 1 January 2022.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
As the Home Office, Priti Patel and your typical Tory voter doesn't want them we have to thrown some impossible barriers in the way to stop them actually getting in.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
This is absolute toss and you'd have to be a fucking mug to fall for it.
Just because Ukraine are the Ewoks and Russia is the Empire that doesn't mean we have to swallow their bullshit.
The smart thing the Ukrainians have done is report their own losses in a credible way. Great media manipulation.
As Le Carre would put it, just enough gold dust to disguise the chicken feed.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
Must be a booming trade in Ukrainian language lessons in that part of France.
There probably is. But I expect a short interview with a Ukranian native would sort the genuine from the fakes. You can learn a language quicker than an accent.
One also has to ask, why would any Ukrainian refugee - having escaped bombed out Kharkiv, afterwards fleeing to Lviv, then crossing to the border - thereafter make their way by bus train and car all the way across Europe. To Calais?!
What’s the point in that? Are you actually hoping to cross in a terribly dangerous dinghy? Why do that, when you can turn up at the british Embassy in Paris - or anywhere - and get your documents stamped and you’re in the UK safely? No boats required?
I can see why HMG is somewhat suspicious
You twit. These are the wives, daughters, relatives etc of British citizens who have driven all the way to Poland to pick up their wives, daughters and relatives. Do you not watch the news. People with English names and English accents who are as English as you and I who happen to have married a Ukrainian and therefore have Ukrainian spouses, children, relatives who they have rescued and are now being stopped at Calais.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
Again you are going all xenophobic and ignoring all common sense.
Got a Ukrainian ID card / passport with matching photo - let them in. Got paperwork from the Polish / Ukraine border - let them in.
Not got either - push them down an interview approach.
This is the type of job I've been doing for 20 odd years (automating work and especially make work away) and it's really quite simple, you look at the type of cases and you identify things that are common and implement processes for them.
Or you come up with a bullshit excuse to avoid doing anything knowing that your average Xenophobic voter will accept the bullshit excuse because they don't think and like the end result.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
Must be a booming trade in Ukrainian language lessons in that part of France.
There probably is. But I expect a short interview with a Ukranian native would sort the genuine from the fakes. You can learn a language quicker than an accent.
Yes. I was being sarcastic. To be pedantic (this is PB), you can learn an accent quicker than the language if you live there 24/7 for a sustained period. Hence my South Taipei Mandarin. Beloved of the gangster in Chinese movies. I talk like the equivalent of Ray Winstone. It greatly amuses.
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I don't know what information is on the Ukrainian ID card, but a brief look at the eligibility rules suggests that the biggest problem will be proving Ukrainian residency prior to 1 January 2022.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
As the Home Office, Priti Patel and your typical Tory voter doesn't want them we have to thrown some impossible barriers in the way to stop them actually getting in.
Polling suggests Tory voters support more being done, no? The problem is the Tory leadership who got there on a platform of xenophobia. Tory voters have moved on the issue in response to events.
Latest update from the Ukrainian high command on Russian losses. Note the 80 helicopters lost suggest that the attack on 30 being reported yesterday was indeed correct.
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters. - military personnel: more than 12 thousand people; - tanks: 303; - armored fighting vehicles: 1036; - artillery systems: 120; - multiple launch rocket systems: 56; - units of air defense equipment: 27; - aircraft – 48; - helicopters – 80; - automobile vehicles – 474; - warship/speed boats – 3; - cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60; - unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
This is absolute toss and you'd have to be a fucking mug to fall for it.
Just because Ukraine are the Ewoks and Russia is the Empire that doesn't mean we have to swallow their bullshit.
One also has to ask, why would any Ukrainian refugee - having escaped bombed out Kharkiv, afterwards fleeing to Lviv, then crossing to the border - thereafter make their way by bus train and car all the way across Europe. To Calais?!
What’s the point in that? Are you actually hoping to cross in a terribly dangerous dinghy? Why do that, when you can turn up at the british Embassy in Paris - or anywhere - and get your documents stamped and you’re in the UK safely? No boats required?
I can see why HMG is somewhat suspicious
You twit. These are the wives, daughters, relatives etc of British citizens who have driven all the way to Poland to pick up their relatives. Do you not watch the news. People with English names and English accents who are as English as you and I who happen to have married a Ukrainian and therefore have Ukrainian spouses, children, relatives who are being stopped at Calais.
The thing that astonishes me is that there are a few in this category and have been interviewed by the media and it cannot be beyond the home office to admit them immediately
Patel and the home office just do not seem to have any common sense, or an ability to act outside the box
What exactly are the security concerns re Ukrainians .
This excuse by Patel is being used to put roadblocks in the visa process .
The security concerns are not about Ukranians but persons masquerading as Ukrainians to access the UK and hence why even labour are saying checks are needed
With a Ukranian ID card and passport?
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
If they have a Ukrainian ID and passport they should be waived through and to be honest I do object to be referred to as a clueless racist xenophobe which simply is not in the spirit of this discussion
Yet that isn't what you said 2 seconds earlier - every single one of your previous posts talks about persons masquerading as Ukrainians and demonstrates an attitude of guilty until proven innocent....
Do you seriously think that in the Calais area persons will not masquerade as Ukrainians, either directly or through the smugglers in attempt to gain access to the UK
Again you are going all xenophobic and ignoring all common sense.
Got a Ukrainian ID card / passport with matching photo - let them in. Got paperwork from the Polish / Ukraine border - let them in.
Not got either - push them down an interview approach.
This is the type of job I've been doing for 20 odd years (automating work and especially make work away) and it's really quite simple, you look at the type of cases and you identify things that are common and implement processes for them.
Or you come up with a bullshit excuse to avoid doing anything knowing that your average Xenophobic voter will accept the bullshit excuse because they don't think and like the end result.
I think you overestimate the competence of the Home Office.
It's not xenophobic - it's just putting yourselves on the shoes of civil servants who have conflicting directions from ministers:
1) Let all Ukrainians in, fast as fuck, no pissing about
Comments
Doing Richard Herring's job for him International Men's day is on November 19th before anyone asks
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/07/vladimir-putin-never-believed-west-would-cut-russian-oil-grave/
AEP argues that Vlad is fecked if we cut off buying his oil. May not even be able to pay his troops.
Ancients got around a bit.
And it wasn’t a “Campaigning Pamphlet” it was a 600+ page White Paper Prospectus for independence.
As anyone who was on, or whose parents were on, the Windrush and who didn't, a few years ago, apply for a passport or otherwise demonstrate their Britishness will tell you.
She hasn't, though, demonstrated that she's done anything to improve the situation.
I was then blocked, the initial tweet deleted, and the chap reposted essentially the same thing, but with the claim the initial tweet had had a typo in it, hence deletion.
Because without any valid reason all I'm seeing is racist xenophobia in your post.
Presumably they'd be Russian owned and run in the main?
By not applying common sense when the paperwork is clearly visible we just creating make work and hassle for ourselves while revealing how racist and xenophobic we have as a country become.
🚨 #UKRAINE | Western weapons have been flooding into Ukraine over the last few days. This video shows just one day of NATO transport aircraft moving cargo to Poland near the border with Ukraine. The cargo is then moved into Ukraine by road to assist in the fight against Russia.
https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1501126295748587525
For a long time this was accompanied by a strong dose of the belief that "powerful assertion" magically makes things come to pass.
That's why they genuinely didn't believe they were lying to start with. Just that operational people were letting them down.
Experience has now told them that assertion isn't enough - and so doing the same thing has tipped over from magical thinking into flat out lying, on almost every topic, all the time. When they are not lying, it is because reality happens to coincide with what they are saying, but this is coincidence not intent.
The Russia's war in Ukraine has brought this clearly into focus. Where the Government had done good work (on intelligence, training, and weapons for Ukraine), their assertions are true. Where they have not (e.g. refugees, asylum), their assertions are lies. They want it all to be true. But they are not competent to make it so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/07/us/politics/russia-ukraine-military.html
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-latest-news-war-vladimir-putin-zelenskyy-ceasefire-only-50-uk-visas-live-updates-12541713
The UN also did sod all when Spain refused a Catalan independence referendum
Passport/ID card: no problem
No docs: edge case procedure.
Which part of the statement that we are making pointless make work for ourselves while revealing ourselves to be clueless racist xenophobics do you and similar posters trying to justify the utterly unjustifiable do you not quite grasp?
I'm going down tomorrow.
It's the usual suspects complaining about it on twitter and they will ultimately undermine their position and that of the refugees.
The failure of UK Gov is not shifting people en masses with the RAF and BA flights from Poland. It would look great politically, too.
Why else would you write a cheque to the Tory party?
"Spying. No. Shit. Visiting Salisbury Cathedral. No. Ah. Yes. I need to buy some Mr Tumble DVDs?"
The fact he mentioned in the piece that the US is supplying LNG now and that Europe's gas reserves are being replenished not drained now, combined with us moving into Spring, means that its now possible even if Russia threatens to turn off the gas which it probably wouldn't have been a couple of months ago.
Somewhat ironically the way that Gazprom have been dicking around for months with European gas supplies has probably aided Europe to detox from Russian gas in a way that wouldn't be possible had they not done that and it was a threatened cold turkey turning off of the gas pipes.
Putin's failed or backfired in every single one of his strategic ambitions it seems.
I also accept that there are huge, complex problems with identifying real Ukrainians at the Calais crossing when we simultaneously have a massive illegal migration crisis, with - literally - tens of thousands of people using that same crossing, yearly, to illicitly smuggle themselves into the UK. Very often people we do not want
Why is it so hard for people to accept these two things are in conflict, making this a horribly complex issue, not quickly solved? I’m sure the government is fucking up, that’s what governments do. I’m also sure it’s not staffed by Nazis trying to keep weeping Ukrainians out
I reckon a Labour Home Secretary would be struggling just as much as Priti Patel
Others are entitled to different opinions - something you appear to struggle with.
The current “consequences” is that there is no referendum planned, nor one in prospect. So not, I would suggest “ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT” however much you might wish it to be the case.
Several people have commented that the previous Russian Defence Minister
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Serdyukov
Got kicked out, in 2012, for upsetting lots of people with an anti-corruption drive. Particularly looking at equipment not working or not existing, but reported as AOK.
He was replaced by
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Shoigu
Who is friends with all the thieves - long time Putin supporter.
The current “consequences” is that there is no referendum planned, nor one in prospect. So not, I would suggest “ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT” however much you might wish it to be the case.
Not that they can - refused permission to board as we aren't letting them in.
The only problem is the intensity and scale. If you’re into history - especially wonderfully mysterious pre-history - it is quite overwhelming
My advice: take your time. There will probably be crowds. Be patient. Expect to stay 3 hours… or more. Try and see everything. It’s all amazing. The curators spent ten years - ten years! - putting together the exhibition, and it shows. Don’t miss the glowing red amber thing at the beginning.
We could be barring refugees in large numbers for the sake of missing gas bills.
Have you ever worked for a foreign intelligence service?
Isn't there a story of someone famous saying "yes, but only for the good guys" in response to the latter, and being told by the immigration official that they really ought to just say "no"?
"The enemy's losses. Operative information from General Headquarters.
- military personnel: more than 12 thousand people;
- tanks: 303;
- armored fighting vehicles: 1036;
- artillery systems: 120;
- multiple launch rocket systems: 56;
- units of air defense equipment: 27;
- aircraft – 48;
- helicopters – 80;
- automobile vehicles – 474;
- warship/speed boats – 3;
- cisterns with fuel and lubricants – 60;
- unmanned aerial vehicles: 7"
We have to avoid the rush to Calais. It will be a mess.
The Australians used to have, possibly still do, a question about criminal convictions, and the 'wags' used to ask about desirability.How many who did that were actually allowed in I don't know.
On our first entry to Australia, some 30+ years ago we'd waited in a long queue with the immigration officers going through many of the other passengers off the plane in detail. When awe reached the front the officer simply looked at us, looked att our passports briefly and said 'the way out to the taxis is over there'.
What’s the point in that? Are you actually hoping to cross in a terribly dangerous dinghy? Why do that, when you can turn up at the british Embassy in Paris - or anywhere - and get your documents stamped and you’re in the UK safely? No boats required?
I can see why HMG is somewhat suspicious
*in one project we actually compared approaches - one multiple choice per person and one yes/no with a random amount asked. For the multiple choice the responses clustered around the middle (and stayed at the middle when we tried two different sets of options on different people with a different middle value). The yes/no question gave higher answers.
The rest of Europe collectively said "no problem, we will look after you". We could have done the same, instead we offered them the ability to come pick fruit.
Its truly shaming of this country. And as Simon Hoare pointedly observes, it is counter our approach to previous crises like this including the one that saw Patel's parents countrymen flee.
Hope of a vote next year has gone with the Ukraine war and many Scots are happy to park the independence question
Hard times force hard thinking upon even politicians unaccustomed to dealing with the world as it really is rather than as they might imagine it to be. These are shivering times for Europe and while Scotland’s concerns may seem comparatively trivial in that continental context, the tremors of war in Ukraine may be felt even here. Some cherished beliefs need to be recalculated and wishful thinking is among the first casualties of war.
If you were unwise enough to think there might be another independence referendum next year, President Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is but the latest event that should dispel those illusions. When even Ian Blackford, the SNP’s Westminster leader, accepts this is not the time to be prattling on about independence…..
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-wont-be-leader-at-next-scottish-independence-referendum-gmv0v0fvg
I'm playing Devil's Advocate somewhat. I can see why the Home Office instinct is to be very cautious, even if that leads to real-world cruelty to Ukrainian refugees. When the Daily Mail get hold of a 30 year old undocumented man who appears to actually be from Africa the whole thing is undermined.
Just because Ukraine are the Ewoks and Russia is the Empire that doesn't mean we have to swallow their bullshit.
Currently (for instance) they claim that they can verify 143 destroyed / captured Russian tanks. If nearly half the number claimed by the Ukranians can be directly verified from open source intelligence sources, it does suggest that the Ukranian numbers are not that far from reality.
(Ukranian numbers on that webpage are probably undercounting by a wider margin as the Ukranians are probably less likely to share their own losses & the Russians aren’t sharing much at all?)
Regardless of the outcome of this war, these are staggering losses. At some point, the Russian military is going to have to choose between maintaining security garrisons elsewhere in the Russian empire & putting more armour into Ukraine.
73% of conservative voters support resettling Ukrainian refugees
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/03/02/support-taking-ukraine-refugees-rises-76
And yes, there will be "Ukrainians" appearing in Calais who don't speak Ukrainian or Russian or know anything or anyone to do with Ukraine. A few hundred would be my guess. They will be ridiculously easy to spot.
These Ukrainians are not dumb (and they are deserving of all our sympathy) but if you have exited Ukraine, then decided to not stop anywhere in mainland Europe, and instead go all the way to France, why would you avoid the multiple british embassies and consulates on the way, and instead head straight for the most dangerous crossing point of all? This is not something you can do in a moment. It takes days of planning and travel
Perhaps you enjoy imperilling yourself, after your thrilling experience of being bombed in Kyiv. Or maybe HMG is justified in a certain skepticism
As Le Carre would put it, just enough gold dust to disguise the chicken feed.
Got a Ukrainian ID card / passport with matching photo - let them in.
Got paperwork from the Polish / Ukraine border - let them in.
Not got either - push them down an interview approach.
This is the type of job I've been doing for 20 odd years (automating work and especially make work away) and it's really quite simple, you look at the type of cases and you identify things that are common and implement processes for them.
Or you come up with a bullshit excuse to avoid doing anything knowing that your average Xenophobic voter will accept the bullshit excuse because they don't think and like the end result.
To be pedantic (this is PB), you can learn an accent quicker than the language if you live there 24/7 for a sustained period.
Hence my South Taipei Mandarin. Beloved of the gangster in Chinese movies. I talk like the equivalent of Ray Winstone.
It greatly amuses.
Sometimes I think that the PM is the most sane person in this rotten Government. The others are even more unhinged than him!
Patel and the home office just do not seem to have any common sense, or an ability to act outside the box
It's not xenophobic - it's just putting yourselves on the shoes of civil servants who have conflicting directions from ministers:
1) Let all Ukrainians in, fast as fuck, no pissing about
2) Zero mistakes, provide deterrent at Calais.