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Three PB faces from tonight’s 18th birthday party – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited March 2022 in General
imageThree PB faces from tonight’s 18th birthday party – politicalbetting.com

Above in the pic are Anthony Daly, Peter the Punter and Stodge -just three of the 40+ attendees at PB’s 18th birthday party. The event was hosted by Smarkets at their dockside offices and provided excellent food and drink.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Mike and other organisers, looks like it went well - excellent! 👍
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Had a lovely time, great to meet so many people and some fascinating conversations.
  • A bit far to travel to from Edinburgh - I was with you in spirit
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Yes, an excellent evening and Smarkets did us proud with the drinks and canapes.

    I hope there were some mini pizzas with pineapple on top.....
    You can't have truly screaming eagles in the City of London!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    Yes, an excellent evening and Smarkets did us proud with the drinks and canapes.

    I hope there were some mini pizzas with pineapple on top.....
    They'd all gone by the time I got there.
    Unsurprising, given clearly how popular they are among PB regulars.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Yes, an excellent evening and Smarkets did us proud with the drinks and canapes.

    +1!!!!!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Great evening, really enjoyed it. 🙂
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited March 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Yes, an excellent evening and Smarkets did us proud with the drinks and canapes.

    +1!!!!!
    Thanks for your comment on the previous thread. Just seen it. Wish I'd been there.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited March 2022
    Great evening - really enjoyed it! Thanks Mike and Matthew!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    Really sorry I had to back out at the last minute. Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

    Glad it was such a success. Stops me feeling quite so guilty.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    Oh and thanks to Cyclefree for the wonderful WB Yeats on the previous thread. Such a sublime poet.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2022
    Russian Economics professor in Chicago assesses the impact of the sanctions: https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1499157917399977987

    https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1499041308257701890

    Urals oil just straight up isn't selling, even at a massive discount.

    I can see why Putin wants martial law for when it starts to bite.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited March 2022
    So are we going l to r in that picture?
    No one looks like I imagine them.
    Ain't that always the drawback of Internet communication?
    Peter the Punter looks hard.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Chameleon said:

    I can see why Putin wants martial law for when it starts to bite.

    The question is how Stalinist he will be (allowed to be) in order to retain power...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Oh and thanks to Cyclefree for the wonderful WB Yeats on the previous thread. Such a sublime poet.

    Just for you I'll repost it.

    I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
    And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
    Nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey-bee,
    And live alone in the bee-loud glade.

    And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
    Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings;
    There midnight’s all a glimmer, and noon a purple glow,
    And evening full of the linnet’s wings.

    I will arise and go now, for always night and day
    I hear lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore;
    While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey,
    I hear it in the deep heart’s core.

    "for peace comes dropping slow"

    Alas, it does ....

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Chameleon said:

    Russian Economics professor in Chicago assesses the impact of the sanctions: https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1499157917399977987

    https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1499041308257701890

    Urals oil just straight up isn't selling, even at a massive discount.

    I can see why Putin wants martial law for when it starts to bite.

    Nice to see a call out there for potato seeds, which I recall was a minor Brexit skirmish.
  • People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not only are the Ukrainians winning the propaganda war, the Russians seem determined to lose it:

    Russian police arrest Elena Osipova for protesting in Saint Petersburg against the war.

    She is a survivor of the Siege of Leningrad, which lasted 2 years and 4 months, claiming the lives of more than 1 million Russians.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1499139576518131715
  • People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    We are defending Ukraine, we're not sacrificing them.

    We're not defending them with a straight out direct war, but we're defending them by proxy and that's every bit as significant.

    The way the war is going, I am increasingly optimistic that Ukraine could win it. I am nigh on certain that Russia will lose it. The middle between those options is what I'm not sure about.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Chameleon said:

    Russian Economics professor in Chicago assesses the impact of the sanctions: https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1499157917399977987

    https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1499041308257701890

    Urals oil just straight up isn't selling, even at a massive discount.

    I can see why Putin wants martial law for when it starts to bite.

    Nice to see a call out there for potato seeds, which I recall was a minor Brexit skirmish.
    I can see why martial law is being discussed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521

    People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    Nothing at all. NATO has a remit set out by charter. They will not step outside that and risk war with Russia even if it does not end in a nuclear exchange. That is the way of the world. In the same way we did not step in to defend Chechnya.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    Putin is going to struggle to hold down Russia, let alone Ukraine. No chance with Poland.

    We are just days away from scenes like this:

    https://youtu.be/7QkJjWIHFSA
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I do love the poetry, although I do notice we cycle through the same ones.

    Blue Remembered Hills
    Adlestrop
    Innisfree
    The one about dissolving the people by Brecht

    Haha.

    One of my favourite things about PB
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh and thanks to Cyclefree for the wonderful WB Yeats on the previous thread. Such a sublime poet.

    Just for you I'll repost it.

    I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
    And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
    Nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey-bee,
    And live alone in the bee-loud glade.

    And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
    Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings;
    There midnight’s all a glimmer, and noon a purple glow,
    And evening full of the linnet’s wings.

    I will arise and go now, for always night and day
    I hear lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore;
    While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey,
    I hear it in the deep heart’s core.

    "for peace comes dropping slow"

    Alas, it does ....

    The Lake Isle of Inishfree. One of my favourites.
    The bee-loud glade.
    Dropping slow.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 795
    edited March 2022
    I never had much chance of making, telling Shadsy optimistically it was 30% chance it but my friend did and reported excellent things, including this quote (unsure from who):

    "The site has people from all stripes. Kippers, labour left, scotch nats... the only group we never had is Scottish Labour and that turned out to be pretty predictive"

    Well I liked that :)

    Hope to make one some day.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    So the situation in Russia now:

    Interest rates up from 9.5 to 20%
    Rouble down by a third
    Financial system cut off
    Stock Market closed
    Banks on the verge of collapse
    Martial law planned for tomorrow

    They are even calling up reservists. Newsnight showed a RT video of a group of smiling reservists who Mark Urban wryly noted looked distinctly mature i.e over 50.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    BURNLEY
    I’ll tell you now and I’ll tell you firmly
    I don’t never want to go to Burnley
    What they do there don’t concern me
    Why would anybody make the journey?

    I’ll tell you know and I’ll tell you flatly
    I don’t never want to go to Gatley
    I don’t even want to go to Batley
    Where is that place exactly

    Do I wanna to go to Redditch?
    I wouldn’t visit in a souped-up sheddish
    what am I some kind of Nebbish?
    No I don’t want to go to Reddish

    I’ll tell you now and I’ll tell you briefley
    I don’t never want to go to Keighley
    I’ll tell you now, just like I told Elsa Lanchester…
    I don’t ever want to go to… Cumbernauld
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    So the situation in Russia now:

    Interest rates up from 9.5 to 20%
    Rouble down by a third
    Financial system cut off
    Stock Market closed
    Banks on the verge of collapse
    Martial law planned for tomorrow

    They are even calling up reservists. Newsnight showed a RT video of a group of smiling reservists who Mark Urban wryly noted looked distinctly mature i.e over 50.

    I don't see how Putin can afford the troops to enforce martial law throughout Russia.
  • People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    Nothing at all. NATO has a remit set out by charter. They will not step outside that and risk war with Russia even if it does not end in a nuclear exchange. That is the way of the world. In the same way we did not step in to defend Chechnya.
    I know that's the rules. But I just can't ever accept that it's better to throw Ukraine to the wolves and let Putin win this than to take a risk that he won't kill himself over Ukraine. And that all the other people in the chain of command between him and the missiles won't kill their families over Ukraine.

    We don't have to declare war on Putin. We can make the Ukrainian International Brigade one of the largest and best equipped armies in the world. We can declare airstrips in Poland to be Ukrainian territory and fill them with newly painted planes. We can get every military drone in the western world on its way to Ukraine.

    I'd rather we took the risk of doing things like this to save Ukraine than just shrug when they die.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2022
    https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1499165613436162049

    7 days in we get our first sighting of the SAS trained Ukrainian special forces trained in insurgency, they'll be causing carnage behind the front line.
  • Foxy said:

    People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    Putin is going to struggle to hold down Russia, let alone Ukraine. No chance with Poland.

    We are just days away from scenes like this:

    https://youtu.be/7QkJjWIHFSA
    Therein lies the key.

    We won the minute it became obvious he wouldn't get Ukraine in a handful of days. Whether he takes all of Ukraine now or ceasesfires is imo a 50-50, but he won't dare risk going further anytime soon. That's good enough for now.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    dixiedean said:

    So are we going l to r in that picture?
    No one looks like I imagine them.
    Ain't that always the drawback of Internet communication?
    Peter the Punter looks hard.

    Don't be silly.

    This is the new PB competition.

    One of them is @Leon.

    Or maybe all of them. 😉

    You have to guess which one.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    FPT: U have no idea how the PB meet is going.

    An inva vodka pkacs in Edinburgh. My GF is hot, my frienda are mental.

    Viva la Ukraine

    I love PB
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    I do love the poetry, although I do notice we cycle through the same ones.

    Blue Remembered Hills
    Adlestrop
    Innisfree
    The one about dissolving the people by Brecht

    Haha.

    One of my favourite things about PB

    "I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death."

    "Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love"

    How many Russian conscripts feel like that tonight?
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    President Macron approval rating poll:

    ⏫Approve: 45 % (+6)
    ⏬Disapprove: 48 % (-7)

    This is the highest level of support for President Macron in a Kantar poll since July 2017.

    Kantar, 28/02/22
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    I hate that drum’s discordant sound,
    Parading round, and round, and round:
    To thoughtless youth it pleasure yields,
    And lures from cities and from fields,
    To sell their liberty for charms
    Of tawdry lace, and glittering arms;
    And when Ambition’s voice commands,
    To march, and fight, and fall, in foreign lands.

    I hate that drum’s discordant sound,
    Parading round, and round, and round:
    To me it talks of ravag’d plains,
    And burning towns, and ruin’d swains,
    And mangled limbs, and dying groans,
    And widow’s tears, and orphans moans;
    And all that misery’s hand bestows,
    To fill the catalogue of human woes.
  • If we were invading Russia, and nearing Moscow, I can imagine Putin nuking us.

    But I really can't believe he'd thus kill himself because the world stopped him taking Ukraine
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Cyclefree said:

    I do love the poetry, although I do notice we cycle through the same ones.

    Blue Remembered Hills
    Adlestrop
    Innisfree
    The one about dissolving the people by Brecht

    Haha.

    One of my favourite things about PB

    "I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death."

    "Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love"

    How many Russian conscripts feel like that tonight?
    Wonderful stuff. Thank you @Cyclefree.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    I love this one too.

    Spring and war.

    "Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday,
    We had daily cleaning. And tomorrow morning,
    We shall have what to do after firing. But to-day,
    Today we have naming of parts. Japonica
    Glistens like coral in all of the neighbouring gardens,
    And today we have naming of parts.

    This is the lower sling swivel. And this
    Is the upper sling swivel, whose use you will see,
    When you are given your slings. And this is the piling swivel,
    Which in your case you have not got. The branches
    Hold in the gardens their silent, eloquent gestures,
    Which in our case we have not got.

    This is the safety-catch, which is always released
    With an easy flick of the thumb. And please do not let me
    See anyone using his finger. You can do it quite easy
    If you have any strength in your thumb. The blossoms
    Are fragile and motionless, never letting anyone see
    Any of them using their finger.

    And this you can see is the bolt. The purpose of this
    Is to open the breech, as you see. We can slide it
    Rapidly backwards and forwards: we call this
    Easing the spring. And rapidly backwards and forwards
    The early bees are assaulting and fumbling the flowers:
    They call it easing the Spring.

    They call it easing the Spring: it is perfectly easy
    If you have any strength in your thumb: like the bolt,
    And the breech, and the cocking-piece, and the point of balance,
    Which in our case we have not got; and the almond-blossom
    Silent in all of the gardens and the bees going backwards and forwards,
    For today we have naming of parts."
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    Drinks look great.

    No doubt the average age of attendee was 107, but I do miss a proper drink and I would have liked to have gone and put faces to names.

    New York is pathetically abstinent compared to London.

    A friend worked at IBM in California - merely bringing alcohol onto the campus was, she said, a firing offense.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    Ummmm:

    Just as a matter of interest, how is Putin going to have the troops and equipment to maintain order in Ukraine, avoid revolution at home, and invade Poland?

    And don't forget Poland would be a massively harder target than Ukraine. Even before we discuss its NATO membership, it has more modern F16s (J block) than Ukraine had old Mig-29s. And it has more (and more modern) anti-tank missiles, tanks, etc etc.

    If Russia struggled in the Ukraine, how do you think they'd do in Poland?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    President Macron approval rating poll:

    ⏫Approve: 45 % (+6)
    ⏬Disapprove: 48 % (-7)

    This is the highest level of support for President Macron in a Kantar poll since July 2017.

    Kantar, 28/02/22

    Macron is the only world leader with a picture of Putin on his wall.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    People don't seem to like answering some of my questions about defending Ukraine, but I won't stop asking them.

    Say after we've sacrificed Ukraine to avoid the nukes, Vlad goes after Poland (please don't bore me with his logistical difficulties in getting this done) and we defend it.

    And he doesn't launch his nukes.

    You can't say anything to Ukraine because it's gone. But what would you say?

    Nothing at all. NATO has a remit set out by charter. They will not step outside that and risk war with Russia even if it does not end in a nuclear exchange. That is the way of the world. In the same way we did not step in to defend Chechnya.
    Exactly. We're treaty bound to defend Poland, the Baltics, and even France. We are not treaty bound to defend the Ukraine. But, as a democracy, we will do all we can to support them.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Drinks look great.

    No doubt the average age of attendee was 107, but I do miss a proper drink and I would have liked to have gone and put faces to names.

    New York is pathetically abstinent compared to London.

    Depends on where you work. Before the pandemic my team used to take a beer cart around the floor every Friday afternoon, and we had booze at every celebratory get together such as film or pizza nights. These days our managers let us expense booze for virtual celebrations. Sadly I am currently involuntarily abstemious on medical grounds.
  • Excellent turnout at the Smarkets bash.

    Thanks to Shadsy for organising it, and thanks to all the PBers there for making it a memorable occasion.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    If we were invading Russia, and nearing Moscow, I can imagine Putin nuking us.

    But I really can't believe he'd thus kill himself because the world stopped him taking Ukraine

    I suspect he's half dead already. He's beyond caring and in a desperate rush.

    I'd have a guess at what is wrong with him but it would only be a guess.

    Does Russia have a 25th Amendment?
  • If we were invading Russia, and nearing Moscow, I can imagine Putin nuking us.

    But I really can't believe he'd thus kill himself because the world stopped him taking Ukraine

    I suspect he's half dead already. He's beyond caring and in a desperate rush.

    I'd have a guess at what is wrong with him but it would only be a guess.

    Does Russia have a 25th Amendment?
    It has third story windows ...
  • Ally_B1Ally_B1 Posts: 49
    rcs1000 said:

    President Macron approval rating poll:

    ⏫Approve: 45 % (+6)
    ⏬Disapprove: 48 % (-7)

    This is the highest level of support for President Macron in a Kantar poll since July 2017.

    Kantar, 28/02/22

    Macron is the only world leader with a picture of Putin on his wall.
    For darts practice?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521

    I know Putin doesn't like Britain - somewhere between disdain and hate. He has missed a point.

    We were once a superpower. We once had an empire. We bankrupted ourselves after two World Wars and could not hold on. We retreated, mostly with good grace but certainly without much bloodshed. While we may have some nostalgia in parts for what we once were, we know there is no going back. That way lies insanity. If any leader tries to make us so again, we would laugh at them. Yet we have values which we will defend. Thus far and no further. There is pride in that.

    That could have been a model for Russia. A road not taken.

    An apt quote to finish on given this has been poetry night.

    The Road Not Taken

    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
    And sorry I could not travel both
    And be one traveler, long I stood
    And looked down one as far as I could
    To where it bent in the undergrowth;

    Then took the other, as just as fair,
    And having perhaps the better claim,
    Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
    Though as for that the passing there
    Had worn them really about the same,

    And both that morning equally lay
    In leaves no step had trodden black.
    Oh, I kept the first for another day!
    Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

    Written by Robert Frost for his good friend the poet Edward Thomas who was notoriously indecisive but who decided, eventually, to choose to go to fight in France where he was killed in 1917 at Arras.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    An excellent event. Thank you Mike and Matthew from Smarkets. Great meeting old faces and new. 😀
  • If we were invading Russia, and nearing Moscow, I can imagine Putin nuking us.

    But I really can't believe he'd thus kill himself because the world stopped him taking Ukraine

    That's right. He won't even be within 30 meters of other people due to covid - he values his life too much.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited March 2022

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    Maybe a bunch of Scousers could occupy Manchester?

    Though the terrain on Chat Moss isn't too dissimilar to Ukraine. They'd probably get bogged down on the M62.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    An interesting technical thread and (yet another) possible explanation of the stalled column.

    https://twitter.com/trenttelenko/status/1499164245250002944?s=21

    Seems this is the endgame of a kleptocratic state. You simply steal until the wheels fall off....
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    Drinks look great.

    No doubt the average age of attendee was 107, but I do miss a proper drink and I would have liked to have gone and put faces to names.

    New York is pathetically abstinent compared to London.

    Depends on where you work. Before the pandemic my team used to take a beer cart around the floor every Friday afternoon, and we had booze at every celebratory get together such as film or pizza nights. These days our managers let us expense booze for virtual celebrations. Sadly I am currently involuntarily abstemious on medical grounds.
    I didn't know you worked in Downing Street ....
    “ You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.”
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Drinks look great.

    No doubt the average age of attendee was 107, but I do miss a proper drink and I would have liked to have gone and put faces to names.

    New York is pathetically abstinent compared to London.

    Depends on where you work. Before the pandemic my team used to take a beer cart around the floor every Friday afternoon, and we had booze at every celebratory get together such as film or pizza nights. These days our managers let us expense booze for virtual celebrations. Sadly I am currently involuntarily abstemious on medical grounds.
    I didn't know you worked in Downing Street ....
    “ You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.”
    Actually nine years in local government IT and a run as a paper candidate for the district council are the closest I ever got to the levers of power. I now work for a well-known music streaming service of Scandinavian origins.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Any thoughts on the Erdington byelection, IMO the only question is the size of the turnout or vote shares.... FWIW I predict a 29% turnout, although forecast is for dry its going to rain from mid afternoon.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Glad you had such a good time and celebrated PB coming of age so well.
    Congratulations Mike and the gang.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    The paramilitary Rosgvardia (formerly the Ministry of Internal Affairs “interior troops”) were part of the original invasion and reportedly fared far worse than the actual regular Army troops.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    Any thoughts on the Erdington byelection, IMO the only question is the size of the turnout or vote shares.... FWIW I predict a 29% turnout, although forecast is for dry its going to rain from mid afternoon.

    My prediction is around 25-30%.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited March 2022

    An interesting technical thread and (yet another) possible explanation of the stalled column.

    https://twitter.com/trenttelenko/status/1499164245250002944?s=21

    What I want to know is why they were risking kit like that in the mud (presumably very peaty soils) in the first place? The radar probably covers a large area so why go off-road?

    Have the bridges been blown up? Are the roads too dangerous?

    There's a good point about the southern part of the county being much dryer and therefore easier.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Koppen-Geiger_Map_UKR_present.svg
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Drinks look great.

    No doubt the average age of attendee was 107, but I do miss a proper drink and I would have liked to have gone and put faces to names.

    New York is pathetically abstinent compared to London.

    Depends on where you work. Before the pandemic my team used to take a beer cart around the floor every Friday afternoon, and we had booze at every celebratory get together such as film or pizza nights. These days our managers let us expense booze for virtual celebrations. Sadly I am currently involuntarily abstemious on medical grounds.
    I didn't know you worked in Downing Street ....
    “ You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.”
    Actually nine years in local government IT and a run as a paper candidate for the district council are the closest I ever got to the levers of power. I now work for a well-known music streaming service of Scandinavian origins.
    You work for Joe Rogan???
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    An interesting technical thread and (yet another) possible explanation of the stalled column.

    https://twitter.com/trenttelenko/status/1499164245250002944?s=21

    What I want to know is why they were risking kit like that in the mud (presumably very peaty soils) in the first place. It the radar probably covers a large area so why go off-road?

    Have the bridges been blown up? Are the roads too dangerous?

    There's a good point about the southern part of the county being much dryer and therefore easier.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Koppen-Geiger_Map_UKR_present.svg
    “Move that truck over there, the Colonel’s staff car needs a clear path.”
    “But Comrade Captain, the tyres on the truck…”
    “I don’t give a f*** about the tyres, just f***ing move it!”
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Drinks look great.

    No doubt the average age of attendee was 107, but I do miss a proper drink and I would have liked to have gone and put faces to names.

    New York is pathetically abstinent compared to London.

    Depends on where you work. Before the pandemic my team used to take a beer cart around the floor every Friday afternoon, and we had booze at every celebratory get together such as film or pizza nights. These days our managers let us expense booze for virtual celebrations. Sadly I am currently involuntarily abstemious on medical grounds.
    I didn't know you worked in Downing Street ....
    “ You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.”
    Actually nine years in local government IT and a run as a paper candidate for the district council are the closest I ever got to the levers of power. I now work for a well-known music streaming service of Scandinavian origins.
    You work for Joe Rogan???
    Don’t make me repeat that Francis Urquhart quote.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890

    I know Putin doesn't like Britain - somewhere between disdain and hate. He has missed a point.

    We were once a superpower. We once had an empire. We bankrupted ourselves after two World Wars and could not hold on. We retreated, mostly with good grace but certainly without much bloodshed. While we may have some nostalgia in parts for what we once were, we know there is no going back. That way lies insanity. If any leader tries to make us so again, we would laugh at them. Yet we have values which we will defend. Thus far and no further. There is pride in that.

    That could have been a model for Russia. A road not taken.

    An apt quote to finish on given this has been poetry night.

    The Road Not Taken

    Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
    And sorry I could not travel both
    And be one traveler, long I stood
    And looked down one as far as I could
    To where it bent in the undergrowth;

    Then took the other, as just as fair,
    And having perhaps the better claim,
    Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
    Though as for that the passing there
    Had worn them really about the same,

    And both that morning equally lay
    In leaves no step had trodden black.
    Oh, I kept the first for another day!
    Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

    Written by Robert Frost for his good friend the poet Edward Thomas who was notoriously indecisive but who decided, eventually, to choose to go to fight in France where he was killed in 1917 at Arras.
    Did Edward Thomas write two poems before deciding to fight? This one survives:-

    This is no case of petty right or wrong
    That politicians or philosophers
    Can judge. I hate not Germans, nor grow hot
    With love of Englishmen, to please newspapers.
    Beside my hate for one fat patriot
    My hatred of the Kaiser is love true:—
    A kind of god he is, banging a gong.
    But I have not to choose between the two,
    Or between justice and injustice. Dinned
    With war and argument I read no more
    Than in the storm smoking along the wind
    Athwart the wood. Two witches' cauldrons roar.
    From one the weather shall rise clear and gay;
    Out of the other an England beautiful
    And like her mother that died yesterday.
    Little I know or care if, being dull,
    I shall miss something that historians
    Can rake out of the ashes when perchance
    The phoenix broods serene above their ken.
    But with the best and meanest Englishmen
    I am one in crying, God save England, lest
    We lose what never slaves and cattle blessed.
    The ages made her that made us from dust:
    She is all we know and live by, and we trust
    She is good and must endure, loving her so:
    And as we love ourselves we hate our foe.

    It is not a great poem but perhaps appropriate to the Ukraine.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Cyclefree said:

    I love this one too.

    Spring and war.

    "Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday,
    We had daily cleaning. And tomorrow morning,
    We shall have what to do after firing. But to-day,
    Today we have naming of parts. Japonica
    Glistens like coral in all of the neighbouring gardens,
    And today we have naming of parts.

    This is the lower sling swivel. And this
    Is the upper sling swivel, whose use you will see,
    When you are given your slings. And this is the piling swivel,
    Which in your case you have not got. The branches
    Hold in the gardens their silent, eloquent gestures,
    Which in our case we have not got.

    This is the safety-catch, which is always released
    With an easy flick of the thumb. And please do not let me
    See anyone using his finger. You can do it quite easy
    If you have any strength in your thumb. The blossoms
    Are fragile and motionless, never letting anyone see
    Any of them using their finger.

    And this you can see is the bolt. The purpose of this
    Is to open the breech, as you see. We can slide it
    Rapidly backwards and forwards: we call this
    Easing the spring. And rapidly backwards and forwards
    The early bees are assaulting and fumbling the flowers:
    They call it easing the Spring.

    They call it easing the Spring: it is perfectly easy
    If you have any strength in your thumb: like the bolt,
    And the breech, and the cocking-piece, and the point of balance,
    Which in our case we have not got; and the almond-blossom
    Silent in all of the gardens and the bees going backwards and forwards,
    For today we have naming of parts."

    I wandered up my shady lane, stumbling through the dark
    Where in the sun the sheep had come, now shadows gnarled with bark.
    I came upon an abyss, my path fell away to doom -
    Nature and nature's laws lay hidden here, somewhere in this gloom. 
    Till there came the sound of a song bird, I stretched into a sigh... 
    God said, let it be, and dawn came upon the sky. 
    I looked out now from darkness where all around was lit,    
    A new dawn breaking over me, making a fresh start.   
    Here Giant's were calling to brothers through the desolate rifts of time,
    With dwarfs upon their shoulders, they sought the perfect rhyme. 
    It was here a riddle fell to me, could my future lead back to you?
    If anything that could have been, happened to everyone too.
    Courage helps us overcome, look lightly upon what would seem,
    And lead us on to confront from start, all what has never been.  
    In time so unbounded, everything under this sun will be,
    As by all veritable logic every ticking clock now is free.            
    It was then I had my vision, of a shepherd and the snake -
    The serpent quashing him in nausea, until he bit the head right off the snake.
    Our Sheppard engulfed with laughter, his spirit fine did soar,
    With a clear voice, he cried to the sun
    Was that life?  Well then: Once more!   
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited March 2022

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    And what do you do when the artillery moves on to the next city?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    Even that doesn't really gain you control. The city elders might say "we've given up", but that won't stop the young from taking potshots at Russian soldiers from time-to-time.

    And sure, they can do the collective punishment thing, but that's a hard thing to maintain for any length of time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Fitch has downgraded Russia six steps in one move, from BBB to B.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    Even that doesn't really gain you control. The city elders might say "we've given up", but that won't stop the young from taking potshots at Russian soldiers from time-to-time.

    And sure, they can do the collective punishment thing, but that's a hard thing to maintain for any length of time.
    And while the Russians had no qualms about committing atrocities against Chechens and Syrians, it’s harder to see the Russian soldiers on the ground being cool with rounding up and shooting civilians einsatzgruppen style. They really would be asking “are we the baddies?” then.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2022
    https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1499195429988278278

    "Several Russian warships have left Crimea and are heading to Odesa. An amphibious assault on Ukraine’s third largest city could come as soon as Thursday: U.S. officials"

    Feels like Russia are doing loads of really high risk attacks for not much reason (see various VDV drops over the past few days). Given how telegraphed this attack has been, should be massive Russian casualties, with a lot of Neptunes and Javelins waiting for the landing vessels.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited March 2022
    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    Even that doesn't really gain you control. The city elders might say "we've given up", but that won't stop the young from taking potshots at Russian soldiers from time-to-time.

    And sure, they can do the collective punishment thing, but that's a hard thing to maintain for any length of time.
    And while the Russians had no qualms about committing atrocities against Chechens and Syrians, it’s harder to see the Russian soldiers on the ground being cool with rounding up and shooting civilians einsatzgruppen style. They really would be asking “are we the baddies?” then.
    Yet they have already been hitting civilian areas with cluster bombs and the like. I suppose it is "easier" to commit atrocities at a distance.

    I do actually doubt terror tactics will work in the long term, but I fear that is what they are going to try.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Fitch has downgraded Russia six steps in one move, from BBB to B.

    That's a really big deal.

    Most investment funds, pensions and insurance companies are usually required to only hold "investment grade" bonds.

    And investment grade is a minimum of BBB-.

    B is (counts it) four or five rungs below BBB-.

    That's a lot of investment funds and insurance companies and pension funds that will, as of tomorrow, no longer be able to hold Russian government debt.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    rcs1000 said:

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    Even that doesn't really gain you control. The city elders might say "we've given up", but that won't stop the young from taking potshots at Russian soldiers from time-to-time.

    And sure, they can do the collective punishment thing, but that's a hard thing to maintain for any length of time.
    And of course they have to do this in multiple large cities spread across a wide area. There is no scenario in which Russia wins. Eventually they will have to withdraw, and as long as Ukraine doesn't unnecessarily compromise on its sovereignty Putin will not be able to spin it as a win. Which means he will be replaced, due to having forced Russia through so much suffering for no benefit.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Astonishing video of captured DNR troops: they just rounded up security guards and teachers, stuck a rifle in their hands and sent them to war:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t4xnn9/a_small_russian_unit_that_fully_surrendered_to/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "A Point Of View
    Sara Wheeler reflects that the attack on Ukraine is not the war of the Russian people she has known."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0014qf1
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    Even that doesn't really gain you control. The city elders might say "we've given up", but that won't stop the young from taking potshots at Russian soldiers from time-to-time.

    And sure, they can do the collective punishment thing, but that's a hard thing to maintain for any length of time.
    And of course they have to do this in multiple large cities spread across a wide area. There is no scenario in which Russia wins. Eventually they will have to withdraw, and as long as Ukraine doesn't unnecessarily compromise on its sovereignty Putin will not be able to spin it as a win. Which means he will be replaced, due to having forced Russia through so much suffering for no benefit.
    I don't understand this "no scenario where Russia wins" thing.

    They take all the territory they want and kick out however much of the resident population they need to hold it. They kill or capture some anti-Russian politicians to make and example in other countries. Then they leave the rest.

    That's winning, isn't it? If the goal is to build a sustainable pro-Russian state across the whole of the territory then maybe they can't do that, but that's not the only way to win, I think?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    I am sad.

    A friend of mine, who was a keen Corbyn supporter, a peacenik, and spent a lot of time helping refugees in the camps in France, just wrote on Facebook that whilst Russia should not have sent troops into Ukraine, "However the situation must be understood", followed by a link to an Oliver Stone's 2016 pro-Putin 'documentary' Ukraine on Fire.

    Followed by a lot of comments backing his view. He was also pro-Assad and a chemical weapons denialist.

    He then posts something else about media manipulation, followed by how the west are very duplicitous, and how the BBC's video of the missile attack on Karkiv seems to have come from Ukrannian-held territory, and why would Russian forces need to send a missile to destroy it when they were already in the city?

    I know this guy. On a personal level he's lovely. But his views... Oh, his views.

    I don't respond, but I'm so tempted. Worse, another friend - a genial, happy chap I'm very find of - 'liked' both comments.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This is Elvira Nabiullina, head of the Russian Central Bank. She starts with 'it's a difficult time, be kind to colleagues.' Then it gets interesting - 'Let's don't get into political disputes at work and on social media.' No 'support our troops/president' of anything like that.

    https://twitter.com/russianforces/status/1499146779799040008?s=21
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    I've been waiting for John Gray's first commentary on the Ukraine situation.

    "The new age of disorder
    Putin represents a world the Western mind can no longer comprehend. The belief that liberalism will inevitably prevail is an illusion that Europe must abandon if it is to win a war of his creation.
    By John Gray" (£)

    https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/geopolitics/2022/03/the-new-age-of-disorder
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Kyiv is about the same size as Greater Manchester. Bigger, in fact.

    I’m trying to get my head around the idea of occupying a city that big.

    The UK (apart from a few weeks of honeymoon) never got a grip over Basrah the 7-8 years it was occupied, and the population wasnt even that hostile... a Russian presence of tens of thousands I imagine will struggle - though paramilitaries/police/Interior Ministry troops could be drafted in from across Russia (and from what I see Russian police arent exactly like UK police officers)
    I suppose that the only way that they can gain control is the way that they've taken Kherson - tell the city to stop fighting otherwise it gets levelled. An option that was not available in Iraq.

    You don't need to parade up and down too much.
    Even that doesn't really gain you control. The city elders might say "we've given up", but that won't stop the young from taking potshots at Russian soldiers from time-to-time.

    And sure, they can do the collective punishment thing, but that's a hard thing to maintain for any length of time.
    And of course they have to do this in multiple large cities spread across a wide area. There is no scenario in which Russia wins. Eventually they will have to withdraw, and as long as Ukraine doesn't unnecessarily compromise on its sovereignty Putin will not be able to spin it as a win. Which means he will be replaced, due to having forced Russia through so much suffering for no benefit.
    I don't understand this "no scenario where Russia wins" thing.

    They take all the territory they want and kick out however much of the resident population they need to hold it. They kill or capture some anti-Russian politicians to make and example in other countries. Then they leave the rest.

    That's winning, isn't it? If the goal is to build a sustainable pro-Russian state across the whole of the territory then maybe they can't do that, but that's not the only way to win, I think?
    They may 'win' limited strategic military objectives, but in the wider geopolitical sense they will lose.

    *) Yesterday's UN vote shows that Russia has few friends internationally on this matter.
    *) It 'appears' that it has increased dissent in Russia.
    *) A military 'win' will do nothing immediate to ease sanctions and help the Russian economy.
    *) They will lose many young men and a heck of a lot of expensive military kit.
    *) 'Keeping' the areas pro-Russian make take a lot of Russia's treasure.

    This may set Russia back decades, for very little gain. Even gaining the oil and gas fields around the Crimea and Donbass (yes, part of his motivation will be oil 'n gas) will do him little good if he cannot purchase the kit internationally to exploit those fields, and no-one wants to buy the oil and gas.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    An interesting technical thread and (yet another) possible explanation of the stalled column.

    https://twitter.com/trenttelenko/status/1499164245250002944?s=21

    Ha, so the wheels are quite literally falling off the Russian invasion!

    Who’d have thought they were skimping on basic vehicle maintenance? So they’re running out of fuel, have tyres turning to dust after a bit of exercise, and don’t appear to be crewed by the more elite section of the Russian army. How long before they simply give up and go home?

    If 6,000 dead Russians is correct - and the Americans are suggesting it might be - alongside a similar number injured and many more captured, have the Russians lost more than 20% of their manpower inside a week?

    Meanwhile, the resupply convoys from Poland are heading over the border with a load more NLAWs and Stingers.

    Don’t give up Ukraine, and Puck Futin! 🇺🇦
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    This is Elvira Nabiullina, head of the Russian Central Bank. She starts with 'it's a difficult time, be kind to colleagues.' Then it gets interesting - 'Let's don't get into political disputes at work and on social media.' No 'support our troops/president' of anything like that.

    https://twitter.com/russianforces/status/1499146779799040008?s=21

    Why would there need to overt support for troops and president, for what’s simply a routine peacekeeping mission in the Donbass region?

    Ignore the queues at the banks, that credit cards and smartphone services have stopped working, that mortgage rates have doubled, that anything of intrinsic value has disappeared from shops, that the stock market is going to be closed for a fourth day…
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    A bit far to travel to from Edinburgh - I was with you in spirit

    Clearly not the same spirit as @Eabhal
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited March 2022
    Lots of noise and not much signal in this war, but from what I can tell, Russia is doing alright so far.

    Putin should be most worried about China, though. If he loses Xi, he’s fucked.

    RIP to all the innocents btw. Apologies if my post(s) come across as rather cold and detached. I studied International Relations at university. That’s my excuse.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    rcs1000 said:

    to have the troops and equipment to maintain order in Ukraine, avoid revolution at home, and invade Poland?

    And don't forget Poland would be a massively harder target than Ukraine. Even before we discuss its NATO membership, it has more modern F16s (J block) than Ukraine had old Mig-29s. And it has more (and more modern) anti-tank missiles, tanks, etc etc.

    I'm going to go into a Topping style rage here...

    F-16 blocks are defined by numbers not letters. A 'J', that is an F-16C/DJ, is a Block 50/52 with the addition of the HARM missile avionics/launch computer and the AN/ASQ-213 HARM targeting system. This is a USAF only variant.

    Poland have Block 50/52+ which adds JDAM capability, conformals and a few other upgrades.

    Ukraine's Fulcrums have been through the MU1 upgrade program which improves the radar, adds GPS/GLONASS and lets them use Ukranian built versions of the R-27 Alamo. Some of the fleet (exact number unknown) have been through the MU2 upgrade in which Elbit adds a lot of Israeli avionics.
This discussion has been closed.