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The outcast in Anchorage: A senate storm brews in Alaska – politicalbetting.com

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  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    darkage said:

    The bear needs to be shot

    Went through my mind yesterday. How they might now wish they'd bumped him off when they had the chance in Cornwall.

    I bet he's bunkered down. One drone is all it takes ...
  • James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    A quick question.

    Would Russia have committed their best forces first? We have to remember that they are keeping quite a bit back at the moment. I was surprised to see reports that Kazakhstan have refused to send troops to Russia's aid. I suppose they have enough problems of their own.

    Also these failed Special Ops attempts - because Putin wants a 'clean' victory or is this some kind of weird showing off as one analyst is saying.

    I've no idea. Russia's strategy and tactics in the war atm are as clear as mud, but certainly it is not yet as decisive as I feared it was going to be. There is always the possibility that a plan is progressing pretty much as Russia expected, and my perceptions are incorrect. Or it could be that it is not going as planned, or is going very badly for them.

    I daresay it'll only become clear a lot later. And if Russia win, they'll probably say that any problems they have were just part of the original plan...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    I wonder if Putin's failure to secure air superiority is related to the Duma member saying "I did not vote to bomb Kiev"

    Unleashing your bombers doesn't exactly fit the "peacekeeping" narrative he was trying to sell initially.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    darkage said:

    deleted

    Why?

    I'm sure the west would see assassinating Putin as a good solution.

    Even some Germans tried to take out Hitler. With weaponry and intelligence so much more sophisticated this is something we should consider.

    I may appear dove-like on general conflict but I see assassinations as a necessary part of maintaining world peace. Seriously.

    The Israelis are particularly good at it.

    Take out Putin and the world is a better place. Many Russians would be delighted.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    The Chinese abstention last night was very welcome. Of course it would have been nicer if they'd backed the motion but you can't have everything. Too much to hope they might play the role of Eisenhower in Suez.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,349
    If you want to make a donation to the Ukrainian war effort without having a dodgy looking SWIFT transfer to the Bank of Ukraine on your banking records, Euromaiden Press are a media outlet that accept paypal. They said yesterday on twitter that any money donated would go to the military. There are also NGOs that do humanitarian work.

    See link below (h/t @Cyclefree)
    https://ukrainianinstitute.org.uk/russias-war-against-ukraine-what-can-you-do-to-support-ukraine-ukrainians/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Last night president Zelensky tweeted after speaking to president Macron saying that France supported expelling Russia from Swift, with noises from Germany too. Sources say Downing Street encouraged by that.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1497478652493185024

    A few days ago, banning Russia from Swift wasn't really an option. Now talk is building, some of it from the U.S.

    There's momentum, but the fate is unclear.

    Via @SalehaMohsin, @nwadhams and me:


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-26/u-s-puts-banning-russia-from-swift-global-system-back-in-play?sref=babSEhDq
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Ukrainian leader says it is 'crucial moment' to decide on EU membership http://reut.rs/3tew4DM https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1497479055905628163/photo/1
  • James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
  • This headline says it all:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/25/global-markets-surge-as-concerns-ease-over-effect-of-sanctions-on-the-west

    The only sanctions that might have an effect are ones that no country is willing to inflict on itself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    Scott_xP said:

    Last night president Zelensky tweeted after speaking to president Macron saying that France supported expelling Russia from Swift, with noises from Germany too. Sources say Downing Street encouraged by that.
    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1497478652493185024

    A few days ago, banning Russia from Swift wasn't really an option. Now talk is building, some of it from the U.S.

    There's momentum, but the fate is unclear.

    Via @SalehaMohsin, @nwadhams and me:


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-26/u-s-puts-banning-russia-from-swift-global-system-back-in-play?sref=babSEhDq

    That’s probably a worse outcome for Russia than actually being banned from it. The suggestion that it might now happen could easily spark capital flight to pre-empt it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
  • malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,162

    This headline says it all:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/25/global-markets-surge-as-concerns-ease-over-effect-of-sanctions-on-the-west

    The only sanctions that might have an effect are ones that no country is willing to inflict on itself.

    Yes - yesterday was not a good day in that respect.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    "Patrick Fox
    @RealCynicalFox

    8.Russian morale is lower than expected. Some units appear to have anticipated being met with grateful Ukrainian crowds instead of stiff opposition."

    https://twitter.com/RealCynicalFox/status/1497143878360739840
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,460

    This headline says it all:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/25/global-markets-surge-as-concerns-ease-over-effect-of-sanctions-on-the-west

    The only sanctions that might have an effect are ones that no country is willing to inflict on itself.

    The experience of covid should have taught us that the economically unthinkable is sometimes necessary.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,386
    Good morning everybody.
    Hat-tip to the Ukrainians who are, I suspect, holding on far, far better then Putin expected.
    I suspect many individual Russians, particularly European ones, might find difficulty in destroying Kyiv/Kiev. AIUI, it's the Mother City, the place where Russia as we know it started.
    Historians will know better of course, and may well correct me.
  • James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    A powerful speech but the director seemed bored and the frequent cuts to Boris's profile were distracting. Is this an in-house Number 10 production?
  • A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    This headline says it all:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/25/global-markets-surge-as-concerns-ease-over-effect-of-sanctions-on-the-west

    The only sanctions that might have an effect are ones that no country is willing to inflict on itself.

    The hypocrisy in the west over this is staggering and, I repeat, reaches through stakeholders and shareholders and right into the Conservative Party coffers.

    If we REALLY meant it about standing with Ukraine we would hit Russia with every sanction going even if it cost us dearly, which it would.

    But we don't really mean it. We talk the talk but we are, effectively, throwing Ukraine to the dogs.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Head of MI6 endorses @LawDavF's take on why Putin will fail. Which is itself fascinating.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1497481660400553984
    https://twitter.com/ChiefMI6/status/1497290589360070665
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    edited February 2022

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The last one is truly bizarre. Only a few weeks after the pro-Russian government barely survived a popular revolution, why on earth would you be weakening its military by sending its troops to fight on a different continent?!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    Good morning. Looks like it is Battle of Kyiv day.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,270
    Russia if it wanted to could have already taken Kyiv but to do so would mean huge destruction and civilian casualties which doesn’t fit with the optics of the mission sold to the Russian people .

    Perhaps Putin miscalculated that Ukrainians would just surrender and now it looks like they will go down fighting.

    This makes things altogether more complicated for him . He will eventually get his win but at what cost.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    "Scott Gorbach
    @ScottGorbach
    Wow. Ukrainians wrecking Russian Motorized Infantry with Molotov cocktails at improvised roadblocks on the outskirts of Kyiv:"
    https://twitter.com/ScottGorbach/status/1497424391117881347

    Astonishing video, but surely the most modern tanks couldn't be so easily attacked? Maybe the Russians are using old-fashioned ones.

    It's from 2014.

    Why dovyou think "modern" tabks can't be so easuly attacked. They are a metal box with limited visibility.

    The fundamentals of "using tanks in an urban environment without infantry support is a terrible plan" has remained constant.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Yesterday Dom was denying Russia had any influence over Brexit.

    today...

    Dominic Cummings: the Tory Party has been “financed by Putin’s mates for decades” and Russia has been able to sway the British electorate.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/tories-financed-by-putins-mates-for-decades-and-russia-did-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims/ar-AAUfK8S?ocid=st
  • King Cole, not especially my area, but that was my understanding too.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    I for one would accept a 10% rise in inflation and a 10% cut in my income if it meant saving Ukraine.

    If that's the price of expelling Russia from SWIFT I will gladly pay it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Rumors that hackers have taken down Russia biggest bank site Sberbank. Karma is a bitch..
    https://twitter.com/TommyLundn/status/1497413113112666113

  • Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    edited February 2022
    "‘Only isolated pockets’ of Russian troops in Kyiv - UK armed forces minister

    UK armed forces minister, James Heappey said on Saturday that there are only “isolated pockets” of Russian troops in Kyiv - which is a testament to the resistance shown by Ukrainian forces. “The main armoured columns approaching Kyiv are still some way off. That is a testament to the incredible resistance the Ukrainian armoured forces have put up over the last 48 hours or so,” he told Sky News. “Clearly the Russian plan is to take Kyiv but the reality is that the Ukrainians are thwarting them thus far. “It looks like the Russian plan is nowhere near running to schedule. “I think that will be a great cause of concern for President Putin and rather points to the fact that there was a lot of hubris in the Russian plan and that he may be awfully advised.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-putin-war-kyiv-invasion-latest-b2022971.html
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    ydoethur said:

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The last one is truly bizarre. Only a few weeks after the pro-Russian government barely survived a popular revolution, why on earth would you be weakening its military by sending its troops to fight on a different continent?!
    UEFA would beg to differ.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,523

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The correct answer may well be the obvious one. That the Russian military are not as strong or competent as they were made out to be. I suspect they lack the logistical tail for a prolonged war too.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Yesterday Dom was denying Russia had any influence over Brexit.

    today...

    Dominic Cummings: the Tory Party has been “financed by Putin’s mates for decades” and Russia has been able to sway the British electorate.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/tories-financed-by-putins-mates-for-decades-and-russia-did-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims/ar-AAUfK8S?ocid=st

    You quote Cummings on today of all days - brexit has taken you over sadly

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    Scott_xP said:

    Rumors that hackers have taken down Russia biggest bank site Sberbank. Karma is a bitch..
    https://twitter.com/TommyLundn/status/1497413113112666113

    Russians being unable to take money out of their bank accounts would cause national panic....

    Way to go, GCHQ!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379

    If Google Maps is anything to go by, the Russians have completely penetrated downtown Kyiv.

    Google Maps shows troop positions now?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934

    Scott_xP said:

    Rumors that hackers have taken down Russia biggest bank site Sberbank. Karma is a bitch..
    https://twitter.com/TommyLundn/status/1497413113112666113

    Russians being unable to take money out of their bank accounts would cause national panic....

    Way to go, GCHQ!
    There were significant queues to cash machines and counters at Sberbank outlets across Moscow yesterday. It became next to impossible to withdraw foreign currency towards the evening. Russia’s largest bank clearly in trouble as a result of sanctions.
    https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1497363624502902790

    Apple Pay looks like it’s stopped working in Russia.
    https://twitter.com/JamesAALongman/status/1497485016544288777
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    Heathener said:

    I for one would accept a 10% rise in inflation and a 10% cut in my income if it meant saving Ukraine.

    If that's the price of expelling Russia from SWIFT I will gladly pay it.

    For all of us, or just your little bit?
    Foxy said:

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The correct answer may well be the obvious one. That the Russian military are not as strong or competent as they were made out to be. I suspect they lack the logistical tail for a prolonged war too.
    Or they have morale issues.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    dixiedean said:

    If Google Maps is anything to go by, the Russians have completely penetrated downtown Kyiv.

    Google Maps shows troop positions now?
    Key in your destination, and select the little tank icon - enemy formations in your way appear in red. ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Scott_xP said:

    Rumors that hackers have taken down Russia biggest bank site Sberbank. Karma is a bitch..
    https://twitter.com/TommyLundn/status/1497413113112666113

    Russians being unable to take money out of their bank accounts would cause national panic....

    Way to go, GCHQ!
    Probably Anonymous. They declared cyber war on Putin's Russia.

    https://www.timesnownews.com/world/anonymous-declares-cyber-war-on-russia-attacks-govt-websites-all-about-the-mysterious-hacker-collective-article-89843798
  • Scott_xP said:

    Yesterday Dom was denying Russia had any influence over Brexit.

    today...

    Dominic Cummings: the Tory Party has been “financed by Putin’s mates for decades” and Russia has been able to sway the British electorate.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/tories-financed-by-putins-mates-for-decades-and-russia-did-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims/ar-AAUfK8S?ocid=st

    Remember: In Dom's head, Tory Party = Bad (and always has done), Brexit = Good (so good, it was even worth putting Boris in charge to make it happen).
  • Foxy said:

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The correct answer may well be the obvious one. That the Russian military are not as strong or competent as they were made out to be. I suspect they lack the logistical tail for a prolonged war too.
    Yes, I'm rather hoping that might be the case. Sending the conscripts in may be the Generals' way of not fully cooperating.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    edited February 2022
    nico679 said:

    Russia if it wanted to could have already taken Kyiv but to do so would mean huge destruction and civilian casualties which doesn’t fit with the optics of the mission sold to the Russian people .

    Perhaps Putin miscalculated that Ukrainians would just surrender and now it looks like they will go down fighting.

    This makes things altogether more complicated for him . He will eventually get his win but at what cost.

    What happens after the "win"? Given the level of resistance, are we talking about indefinite military occupation of a country with a population that is going to be largely hostile? Is there going to be massive civil disobedience, and how is that going to be handled?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,386
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    I for one would accept a 10% rise in inflation and a 10% cut in my income if it meant saving Ukraine.

    If that's the price of expelling Russia from SWIFT I will gladly pay it.

    For all of us, or just your little bit?
    Foxy said:

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The correct answer may well be the obvious one. That the Russian military are not as strong or competent as they were made out to be. I suspect they lack the logistical tail for a prolonged war too.
    Or they have morale issues.
    I suspect the latter.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,919
    edited February 2022
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Foxy said:

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The correct answer may well be the obvious one. That the Russian military are not as strong or competent as they were made out to be. I suspect they lack the logistical tail for a prolonged war too.
    Well if that's the case it's the one thing I got right and it's why I suggested Russia wouldn't attack: because they wouldn't be that stupid. But I didn't factor in that we're dealing with a madman not a rationalist.

    Russia's military might was always overrated.

    But intelligence has moved on from my day so I may be way out of touch.
  • Chameleon said:

    Aslan said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I don't think the Russian fascist forces expected the Ukrainian resistance to have British anti-aircraft weapons. Litvinenko's revenge.
    The western weapons are certainly making this by far the closes peer-on-peer conflict since the 40. Even if the US was invading in the place of Russia it'd be more organised but they'd still be taking very significant casualties. Still the question about what happens if Putin doesn't achieve his objectives lingers. Peace and prosperity in our time is as dead as the snake island 13.
    It seems likely that Putin is going to achieve his objectives, and fairly quickly. Not guaranteed, but maybe a 1/5 shot.

    But sometimes 1/5 shots don’t come home. What then? It is a very important question, but impossible to answer. Nobody wants to contemplate the obvious answer: nuclear war.
    Nuclear war against whom? Why would even a half-crazed Putin order the nuclear annihilation of the region he wants to reincorporate into Russia? And even a glance at a map would warn him of the danger of residual becquerels being blown by the wind back to mother Russia.
    I sincerely hope you are right.

    But, if you are right, it still leaves the question unanswered.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934

    There’s wee, pretendy Churchill and then there’s President Zelensky showing us the real thing. Anyone can talk the talk, it takes genuine courage to walk the walk.

    He is taking shelter from Russian weapons, not hiding in a fridge from journalists.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,458
    edited February 2022

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    That's utter rubbish though and with your logic would have kept Chamberlain on as PM after the Norway débâcle.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,523
    dixiedean said:

    If Google Maps is anything to go by, the Russians have completely penetrated downtown Kyiv.

    Google Maps shows troop positions now?
    It shows where roads are blocked via immobile cell phones data. It may well be blocked roads from debris rather than forces.

    Last night's attack down Peremohy Avenue seems to have been driven back. Whether it was just a probe or a major attack is not yet clear.
  • On topic, yay, an AV thread.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    Chris said:

    nico679 said:

    Russia if it wanted to could have already taken Kyiv but to do so would mean huge destruction and civilian casualties which doesn’t fit with the optics of the mission sold to the Russian people .

    Perhaps Putin miscalculated that Ukrainians would just surrender and now it looks like they will go down fighting.

    This makes things altogether more complicated for him . He will eventually get his win but at what cost.

    What happens after the "win"? Given the level of resistance, are we talking about indefinite military occupation of a country with a population that is going to be largely hostile? Is there going to be massive civil disobedience, and how is that going to be handled?
    The irony is in that scenario it would weaken Russian control over Belarus. If they've got large numbers of soldiers pacifying Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv, they won't be controlling Minsk.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Russia's Ministry of Defence yesterday said that when their soldiers took Melitopol, they were welcomed into the city and met by pensioners waving red flags. This guy is telling them to fuck off. https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497478435240923136
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    A few things I don't understand. Why haven't the Russians apparently established air superiority? Why are they sending in conscripts who should be held in reserve to occupy territory later? And why does Russia need to ask Kazakhstan for military assistance?

    The correct answer may well be the obvious one. That the Russian military are not as strong or competent as they were made out to be. I suspect they lack the logistical tail for a prolonged war too.
    Well if that's the case it's the one thing I got right and it's why I suggested Russia wouldn't attack: because they wouldn't be that stupid. But I didn't factor in that we're dealing with a madman not a rationalist.

    Russia's military might was always overrated.

    But intelligence has moved on from my day so I may be way out of touch.
    I didn't have you down for intelligence....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    There is nothing he is doing now that is of any practical or significant help to the Ukranians that his deputy couldn't do tomorrow, pending the selection of an honest and competent replacement.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Scott_xP said:

    Yesterday Dom was denying Russia had any influence over Brexit.

    today...

    Dominic Cummings: the Tory Party has been “financed by Putin’s mates for decades” and Russia has been able to sway the British electorate.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/tories-financed-by-putins-mates-for-decades-and-russia-did-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims/ar-AAUfK8S?ocid=st

    You quote Cummings on today of all days - brexit has taken you over sadly

    In due course The Russia Report really should be released in unredacted form.

    There is a massive stench of hypocrisy, much of it leading back to the Conservative Party, over this country's dealing with Putin's dirty money washing through London.

    I accept that now probably isn't the time, except that this impinges on our weak sanctions. We have succoured Putin's mafia in London and it has to stop.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    That's utter rubbish though and with your logic would have kept Chamberlain on as PM after the Norway débâcle.
    It is not going to happen
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    That's utter rubbish though and with your logic would have kept Chamberlain on as PM after the Norway débâcle.
    It is not going to happen
    Morning Lord Halifax.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,068
    I don't have military experience but I note that in my airsoft games the following probably carry over.
    Defenders get 2 lives whereas attackers are on an infinite respawn. Attacking is much harder.
    People with the best kit and experience can take out many times their number.
    Snipers embedded in Kiev will kill huge numbers of Russian conscripts...
    Ultimately Russia will win as it simply can keep chucking numbers but they'll need to basically flatten Kiev to do so
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    G excuses as to why he should not be sacked are just not acceptable. last thing we need is a crooked lying toerag pretending he is a war hero. He should have been gone already and the longer he si there the more it shows how far UK has fallen. It will be excuses right up to the next election when the Tories get the comeuppance they deserve for supporting the clown.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,154
    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    The bear needs to be shot

    Went through my mind yesterday. How they might now wish they'd bumped him off when they had the chance in Cornwall.

    I bet he's bunkered down. One drone is all it takes ...
    Unlike Putin, the UK government does not assassinate individuals
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    edited February 2022

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    I disagree. Removing a bungling liar who looks like Worzel Gummidge on a bad hair day and replacing him with somebody competent and knowledgeable is not only vital for national security given this situation calls for intelligence, shrewdness and calm judgement (three things Johnson hasn't got, never has had and never will have) but will tell Putin that we're taking the threat he poses very seriously indeed.
  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Yesterday Dom was denying Russia had any influence over Brexit.

    today...

    Dominic Cummings: the Tory Party has been “financed by Putin’s mates for decades” and Russia has been able to sway the British electorate.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/tories-financed-by-putins-mates-for-decades-and-russia-did-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims/ar-AAUfK8S?ocid=st

    You quote Cummings on today of all days - brexit has taken you over sadly

    In due course The Russia Report really should be released in unredacted form.

    There is a massive stench of hypocrisy, much of it leading back to the Conservative Party, over this country's dealing with Putin's dirty money washing through London.

    I accept that now probably isn't the time, except that this impinges on our weak sanctions. We have succoured Putin's mafia in London and it has to stop.
    Our sanctions are as strong as the EU and we have lead the way in wanting Russia out of swift and but for Germany that would be happening
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260

    On topic, yay, an AV thread.

    with pineapple?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    edited February 2022
    edit
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Pulpstar said:

    Ultimately Russia will win as it simply can keep chucking numbers but they'll need to basically flatten Kiev to do so

    Russia says it’s not bombing Kyiv, not targeting civilians. State TV pretends this war is a ‘special operation in the Donbas’ (in eastern Ukraine)

    They’re lying & it’s vital to say so. This block of flats in Kyiv was hit last night- a building identical to millions across Russia
    https://twitter.com/sarahrainsford/status/1497480549568552963/photo/1
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    darkage said:

    tlg86 said:

    darkage said:

    I got up, read the Ukrainians were still fighting, and cried. They are clearly putting up a hell of a fight.

    I've been continuously asking myself the question - would I fight or would I flee, when confronted with this? People in Ukraine are doing both. I don't think I would know until confronted with the choice.

    I’d be running. Mind you, it’s difficult for us to answer. We haven’t grown up with the threat, so it’s hard to put yourself in that position.
    It is a bit like what you do when someone is getting assaulted. I've seen this a few times when much younger. I've tried to stop a couple of assaults and ran away from others. A split second instinctive decision.

    On a more theoretical level, I have been thinking about this question continously because I have got close family who live in the Baltics. In fact, my son is a dual national and will be conscripted in to the army when he is older, so it is a real possibility that he will have to fight at some point in his lifetime.

    Removing the extended family to England is not a good option, even though it is possible and we have the resources to do it. What sort of life is it to be removed from your homeland, whilst you let other people defend it and die in the process of doing so? And if much of Europe folds to a dictatorship, how safe are we in England?

    These are just really difficult questions with no simple answer, but my instinctive answer is that I think we should be fighting and supporting everyone who is resisting this tyranny, in Russia and outside of it.
    Met an old friend last week I hadn't seen in 30 years. He's not in great shape. Heart attack a few years ago. Needs both knees replacing, since before COVID. Uses a walker.
    Told me he saw a slender lad of about 14 being attacked by a coked up thug at the bus stop. Put himself between them. "It was the only thing I could have done right then."
    Ashamed to say I could have thought of a few other, better alternatives.
    He ended with a broken back. I was moved. And reflective.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    That's utter rubbish though and with your logic would have kept Chamberlain on as PM after the Norway débâcle.
    It is not going to happen
    Morning Lord Halifax.
    You Wood say that. Maybe you were Irwin on the side of sarcasm?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    nico679 said:

    Russia if it wanted to could have already taken Kyiv but to do so would mean huge destruction and civilian casualties which doesn’t fit with the optics of the mission sold to the Russian people .

    Perhaps Putin miscalculated that Ukrainians would just surrender and now it looks like they will go down fighting.

    This makes things altogether more complicated for him . He will eventually get his win but at what cost.

    What happens after the "win"? Given the level of resistance, are we talking about indefinite military occupation of a country with a population that is going to be largely hostile? Is there going to be massive civil disobedience, and how is that going to be handled?
    The irony is in that scenario it would weaken Russian control over Belarus. If they've got large numbers of soldiers pacifying Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv, they won't be controlling Minsk.
    The Russian army is going to be playing whack-a-mole for ever - with the moles armed with anti-tank weapons.

    The Russian top brass must be either
    1. Shit-scared of Putin for their personal safety and that of their families, or
    2. utterly deluded or
    3. actively trying to work out how to extricate themselves from an unholy mess.

    At the moment, all it looks like they can organise is a nice goose-stepping display through Red Square.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260
    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    There is nothing he is doing now that is of any practical or significant help to the Ukranians that his deputy couldn't do tomorrow, pending the selection of an honest and competent replacement.
    Hopefully not Raab though Ian, that would be too far.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,284
    edited February 2022

    Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world

    I'm sorry BigG. We in the West have done next to nothing. There is good reason why we have done next to nothing we don't want Putin to escalate this fiasco to involve the EU and the UK.

    Clinton's biggest regret was he did nothing about the genocide in Rwanda. We are watching, not genocide, but the destruction of a nation. The upshot either way is thousands of innocents are slaughtered whilst we watch on.

    Our declarations "but Ukraine is not in NATO" are sops to ourselves.They are a sovereign nation invaded by an aggressor and we (the West) have sanctioned 70% of Russian banks. Huh, 70%?

    Now I don't want British troops involved, I don't want my children conscripted for a world war, but neither can I sit back with satisfaction and claim leaders representing me have done all they can on my behalf, they haven't. In some cases, their vested interests trump my horror.

    I don't know how to counter Putin, that is not my job. But neither, it seems, do those whose job it is to deal with Putin.

    I am not suggesting a party political or Remainer/ Leave bias here. Whoever they represent, Western leaders have been guilty of dereliction of duty for at least eight years and that includes Starmer and your beloved "Boris".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rumors that hackers have taken down Russia biggest bank site Sberbank. Karma is a bitch..
    https://twitter.com/TommyLundn/status/1497413113112666113

    Their website isn't working.

    https://www.sberbank.com
    Oh, that's a shame...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    The bear needs to be shot

    Went through my mind yesterday. How they might now wish they'd bumped him off when they had the chance in Cornwall.

    I bet he's bunkered down. One drone is all it takes ...
    Unlike Putin, the UK government does not assassinate individuals
    I think that's naive though in today's world. The Americans have no such qualms and nor do the Israelis. It's also incorrect. We have shown plenty of willingness to be involved in removing terrorists. And if you think our Special Forces don't take people out you are badly mistaken.

    Faced with the choice: thousands killed in an illegal and immoral invasion vs 1 dead dictator.

    It's an ethical dilemma which runs back through time. Dietrich Bonhoeffer famously wrestled with the ethics of it before committing to the attempt to bomb Hitler.

    Sometimes you have to commit an apparent act of evil in order to prevent far greater evil. But I wouldn't even class assassinating Putin as an evil.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,349
    One analysis of the situation that keeps coming to me (and frequently alluded to on here) is that we are witnessing the end of a dictator. The weird social distancing, the mad ramblings, the isolation on the world stage, the unprovoked war. The endgame is likely to be a revolution or a coup.

    From our point of view, I think that Putin has proven himself to be beyond any kind of redemption. We have just got to take the chance and hope for the best.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    Did we discuss this yesterday evening?

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497270460396015621

    "Jim Pickard
    @PickardJE

    @KwasiKwarteng summoned BP chief Bernard Looney this afternoon to explain why it owns a 20% stake in Rosneft, which provides fuel to Russia army
    - Kwarteng also "uneasy" about the fact that Looney sits alongside Putin on the Russian Geographical Society board"
  • On PM replacement, never a bad time to lose an incompetent.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,349
    The Chinese veto and Kazakhstan refusing to provide assistance are also significant developments. Evidence of significant weakness.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    Andy_JS said:

    Did we discuss this yesterday evening?

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497270460396015621

    "Jim Pickard
    @PickardJE

    @KwasiKwarteng summoned BP chief Bernard Looney this afternoon to explain why it owns a 20% stake in Rosneft, which provides fuel to Russia army
    - Kwarteng also "uneasy" about the fact that Looney sits alongside Putin on the Russian Geographical Society board"

    Putin is next to a Looney?

    Who needs satire? It just writes itself!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    The bear needs to be shot

    Went through my mind yesterday. How they might now wish they'd bumped him off when they had the chance in Cornwall.

    I bet he's bunkered down. One drone is all it takes ...
    Unlike Putin, the UK government does not assassinate individuals
    I think that's naive though in today's world. The Americans have no such qualms and nor do the Israelis. It's also incorrect. We have shown plenty of willingness to be involved in removing terrorists. And if you think our Special Forces don't take people out you are badly mistaken.

    Faced with the choice: thousands killed in an illegal and immoral invasion vs 1 dead dictator.

    It's an ethical dilemma which runs back through time. Dietrich Bonhoeffer famously wrestled with the ethics of it before committing to the attempt to bomb Hitler.

    Sometimes you have to commit an apparent act of evil in order to prevent far greater evil. But I wouldn't even class assassinating Putin as an evil.
    Naive does not begin to describe it , more like deluded.
  • malcolmg said:

    On topic, yay, an AV thread.

    with pineapple?
    I'm currently drinking a glass of pineapple juice.
  • Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world

    I'm sorry BigG. We in the West have done next to nothing. There is good reason why we have done next to nothing we don't want Putin to escalate this fiasco to involve the EU and the UK.

    Clinton's biggest regret was he did nothing about the genocide in Rwanda. We are watching, not genocide, but the destruction of a nation. The upshot either way is thousands of innocents are slaughtered whilst we watch on.

    Our declarations "but Ukraine is not in NATO" are sops to ourselves.They are a sovereign nation invaded by an aggressor and we (the West) have sanctioned 70% of their banks. Huh, 70%?

    Now I don't want British troops involved, I don't want my children conscripted for a world war, but neither can I sit back with satisfaction and claim leaders representing me have done all they can on my behalf, they haven't. In some cases, their vested interests trump my horror.

    I don't know how to counter Putin, that is not my job. But neither, it seems, do those whose job it is to deal with Putin.

    I am not suggesting a party political or Remainer/ Leave bias here. Whoever they represent, Western leaders have been guilty of dereliction of duty for at least eight years and that includes Starmer and your beloved "Boris".
    Beloved Boris - I cannot understand why a conservative party leadership election taking upto 8 weeks at this time of war could be justified or indeed accepted by the voters

    The time will come to replace Boris but it will not happen yet
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world

    I'm sorry BigG. We in the West have done next to nothing. There is good reason why we have done next to nothing we don't want Putin to escalate this fiasco to involve the EU and the UK.

    Clinton's biggest regret was he did nothing about the genocide in Rwanda. We are watching, not genocide, but the destruction of a nation. The upshot either way is thousands of innocents are slaughtered whilst we watch on.

    Our declarations "but Ukraine is not in NATO" are sops to ourselves.They are a sovereign nation invaded by an aggressor and we (the West) have sanctioned 70% of Russian banks. Huh, 70%?

    Now I don't want British troops involved, I don't want my children conscripted for a world war, but neither can I sit back with satisfaction and claim leaders representing me have done all they can on my behalf, they haven't. In some cases, their vested interests trump my horror.

    I don't know how to counter Putin, that is not my job. But neither, it seems, do those whose job it is to deal with Putin.

    I am not suggesting a party political or Remainer/ Leave bias here. Whoever they represent, Western leaders have been guilty of dereliction of duty for at least eight years and that includes Starmer and your beloved "Boris".
    When I was calling for us to act against Russia in 2014, 2016 (I think), 2018, etc, etc, where was your voice? Were you in the "Russia's ambitions are detrimental to the world; we need to act hard" camp or the "You're a warmonger risking WWIII" camp?

    Because actions then would have been a damned sight easier than they are now. And we still face a threat of WWIII.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ultimately Russia will win as it simply can keep chucking numbers but they'll need to basically flatten Kiev to do so

    Russia says it’s not bombing Kyiv, not targeting civilians. State TV pretends this war is a ‘special operation in the Donbas’ (in eastern Ukraine)

    They’re lying & it’s vital to say so. This block of flats in Kyiv was hit last night- a building identical to millions across Russia
    https://twitter.com/sarahrainsford/status/1497480549568552963/photo/1
    I did enjoy the video where that Irish journalist tore a new one for the Russian Ambassador to Ireland when aforementioned ambassador tried that line.

    The look of withering contempt on his face was almost as good as the zingers of questions he kept putting.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260
    edited February 2022

    malcolmg said:

    On topic, yay, an AV thread.

    with pineapple?
    I'm currently drinking a glass of pineapple juice.
    I love pineapple, could even suffer it on a pizza though would not be one of my top choices.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Did we discuss this yesterday evening?

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497270460396015621

    "Jim Pickard
    @PickardJE

    @KwasiKwarteng summoned BP chief Bernard Looney this afternoon to explain why it owns a 20% stake in Rosneft, which provides fuel to Russia army
    - Kwarteng also "uneasy" about the fact that Looney sits alongside Putin on the Russian Geographical Society board"

    What’s there to say beyond observing it’s performative, grandstanding, meaningless bollocks? The government knew all this last week, last month, last year but chose to do absolutely nothing.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,296
    BA cancels all short haul flights

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60533275
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934

    I cannot understand why a conservative party leadership election taking upto 8 weeks at this time of war could be justified or indeed accepted by the voters

    When the PM is an incompetent buffoon, I cannot understand why you would want him in post for a second longer
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world

    I'm sorry BigG. We in the West have done next to nothing. There is good reason why we have done next to nothing we don't want Putin to escalate this fiasco to involve the EU and the UK.

    Clinton's biggest regret was he did nothing about the genocide in Rwanda. We are watching, not genocide, but the destruction of a nation. The upshot either way is thousands of innocents are slaughtered whilst we watch on.

    Our declarations "but Ukraine is not in NATO" are sops to ourselves.They are a sovereign nation invaded by an aggressor and we (the West) have sanctioned 70% of Russian banks. Huh, 70%?

    Now I don't want British troops involved, I don't want my children conscripted for a world war, but neither can I sit back with satisfaction and claim leaders representing me have done all they can on my behalf, they haven't. In some cases, their vested interests trump my horror.

    I don't know how to counter Putin, that is not my job. But neither, it seems, do those whose job it is to deal with Putin.

    I am not suggesting a party political or Remainer/ Leave bias here. Whoever they represent, Western leaders have been guilty of dereliction of duty for at least eight years and that includes Starmer and your beloved "Boris".
    When I was calling for us to act against Russia in 2014, 2016 (I think), 2018, etc, etc, where was your voice? Were you in the "Russia's ambitions are detrimental to the world; we need to act hard" camp or the "You're a warmonger risking WWIII" camp?

    Because actions then would have been a damned sight easier than they are now. And we still face a threat of WWIII.
    A rare moment of complete agreement with you.

    Quite right.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,460
    There are quite a few videos of Russian tanks that have run out of fuel or been abandoned. It seems the have problem with logistics and morale.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,154
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    The bear needs to be shot

    Went through my mind yesterday. How they might now wish they'd bumped him off when they had the chance in Cornwall.

    I bet he's bunkered down. One drone is all it takes ...
    Unlike Putin, the UK government does not assassinate individuals
    I think that's naive though in today's world. The Americans have no such qualms and nor do the Israelis. It's also incorrect. We have shown plenty of willingness to be involved in removing terrorists. And if you think our Special Forces don't take people out you are badly mistaken.

    Faced with the choice: thousands killed in an illegal and immoral invasion vs 1 dead dictator.

    It's an ethical dilemma which runs back through time. Dietrich Bonhoeffer famously wrestled with the ethics of it before committing to the attempt to bomb Hitler.

    Sometimes you have to commit an apparent act of evil in order to prevent far greater evil. But I wouldn't even class assassinating Putin as an evil.
    You spend your time on here trying to sow dissent. Now is not the time or place.
  • Andy_JS said:

    edit

    Anonymous?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260
    @stodge @MoonRabbit

    My donkeys for today, follow at your own peril.
    Trixie
    Hacker Des Places 13:08 Chepstow
    Marty Byrde 16:35 Chepstow
    Fonzerelli 14:45 Newcastle

    Single EW
    Enrilo 3:37 Kempton
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    ydoethur said:

    I did enjoy the video where that Irish journalist tore a new one for the Russian Ambassador to Ireland when aforementioned ambassador tried that line.

    The look of withering contempt on his face was almost as good as the zingers of questions he kept putting.

    A devastatingly effective, fair and fact based interview by an Irish journalist with Russian’s ambassador to Ireland. “Why should our government entertain your presence here when you’re acting as an apologist for slaughter.” https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1497283552014213122/video/1
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Boris may be a "bumbling incompetent cretin" but he is blessed with a powerful, deep voice which means he sounds both authoritative and reassuring provided he sticks to reading out speeches crafted by some combination of Guto Harri, the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence.
    This is the best speech I have ever heard Boris make

    PM speaks Russian and Ukrainian in message

    https://news.sky.com/video/share-12551741
    Still a complete and utter arsehole who should be out on his arse, apologists for him as he tries to save his fat arse by pretending to be Churchill are easily taken in.
    Predictable as ever Malc
    The truth will out G, propaganda cannot hide the truth.
    Malc - I want Boris to go but to be honest now is not the time and whilst this crisis is ongoing we as a country must be united as anything else just provides succour to the evil Putin
    That's utter rubbish though and with your logic would have kept Chamberlain on as PM after the Norway débâcle.
    It is not going to happen
    Worth unpicking that.

    Should BoJo go now?
    Hell yes. He's not up to the job.

    Is it possible for him to go now?
    Indeedy. See all the precedents from history. And they were wars where the UK was fighting, rather than being a significant supporting player. The people of Ukraine can manage without a British PM for a bit.

    Will he go?
    You're right. He won't. Because the Conservative ecosystem won't stand up to Big Dog. And I recognise that you're no longer a member, but people looking for excuses to delay the necessary is part of the problem.
This discussion has been closed.