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The outcast in Anchorage: A senate storm brews in Alaska – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited March 2022 in General
imageThe outcast in Anchorage: A senate storm brews in Alaska – politicalbetting.com

Nobody talks about it, but electoral reform is all the rage these days. Maine adopted AV (or, as they call it, Ranked Choice Voting) in 2018 for all statewide offices. The Tories are changing mayoral elections from SV to FPTP. And in Alaska an unusual system could have big implications for this year’s senate race.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    First?
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    And second....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    Number two.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    @NBCNews
    Kazakhstan, one of Russia's closest allies and a southern neighbor, is denying a request for its troops to join the offensive in Ukraine, officials say.


    https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1497368313873133570
  • Fifth, like a Rusky Column in Ukraine
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2022
    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497389484362461187

    Second II-76 downed. That's 300-400 elite troops killed before they could kill. The sunflowers will grow high and be plentiful.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Strikes on a military unit in #Kyiv near Bereisteyskaya metro

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497386638749540353?s=20&t=zBuEeonIMPLYnc3_1pD6qw
  • As the #Ukrainian authorities predicted, the night is really hard

    https://twitter.com/ChaudharyParvez/status/1497386581157502977?s=20&t=zBuEeonIMPLYnc3_1pD6qw
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2022
    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.
  • - “… electoral reform is all the rage these days.”

    I’m sorry Quincel, but you can’t make such a sweeping (and contentious) opening statement and then back in up with three teensy-weensy examples from minor English-speaking jurisdictions (Maine, England and Alaska). That is so parochial it is beyond words (English majors?! - guffaw - c’mon!)

    There is a whole planet out there, speaking thousands of languages. If such a sweeping statement had any basis in reality then it would be easy to cite convincing global examples.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I don't think the Russian fascist forces expected the Ukrainian resistance to have British anti-aircraft weapons. Litvinenko's revenge.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited February 2022

    - “… electoral reform is all the rage these days.”

    I’m sorry Quincel, but you can’t make such a sweeping (and contentious) opening statement and then back in up with three teensy-weensy examples from minor English-speaking jurisdictions (Maine, England and Alaska). That is so parochial it is beyond words (English majors?! - guffaw - c’mon!)

    There is a whole planet out there, speaking thousands of languages. If such a sweeping statement had any basis in reality then it would be easy to cite convincing global examples.

    I think you are interpreting that line more strongly than I meant it when I wrote it. The article is about Alaska and their new electoral system, that's just meant to kick off the topic. If I listed enough examples from all over the world to convince you the article would never get on to anything else.

    (Although, I do think you saying that two US states don't count as 'convincing examples' is rather harsh.)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    @marcorubio
    I wish I could share more,but for now I can say it’s pretty obvious to many that something is off with #Putin

    He has always been a killer,but his problem now is different & significant

    It would be a mistake to assume this Putin would react the same way he would have 5 years ago


    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1497393912821915648
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Aslan said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I don't think the Russian fascist forces expected the Ukrainian resistance to have British anti-aircraft weapons. Litvinenko's revenge.
    The western weapons are certainly making this by far the closes peer-on-peer conflict since the 40. Even if the US was invading in the place of Russia it'd be more organised but they'd still be taking very significant casualties. Still the question about what happens if Putin doesn't achieve his objectives lingers. Peace and prosperity in our time is as dead as the snake island 13.
  • Zelensky rejected U.S. offer to evacuate him from Kyiv - Washington Post
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited February 2022
    If Google Maps is anything to go by, the Russians have completely penetrated downtown Kyiv.
  • Quincel said:

    - “… electoral reform is all the rage these days.”

    I’m sorry Quincel, but you can’t make such a sweeping (and contentious) opening statement and then back in up with three teensy-weensy examples from minor English-speaking jurisdictions (Maine, England and Alaska). That is so parochial it is beyond words (English majors?! - guffaw - c’mon!)

    There is a whole planet out there, speaking thousands of languages. If such a sweeping statement had any basis in reality then it would be easy to cite convincing global examples.

    I think you are interpreting that line more strongly than I meant it when I wrote it. The article is about Alaska and their new electoral system, that's just meant to kick off the topic. If I listed enough examples from all over the world to convince you the article would never get on to anything else.

    (Although, I do think you saying that two US states don't count as 'convincing examples' is rather harsh.)
    I’m easy to convince, and use the “ three examples suffices” rule a lot myself.

    If you are aware of three *significant* examples worldwide of ongoing or recent reform then feel free to enlighten me.

    I realise it’s only an intro, but I was disappointed by the insignificance and flimsinesses of the examples used to support your assertion. Far from “Global Britain”, Brexit seems to be drastically reducing horizons. Do we only see humans who look like and talk like us? Tragic if true.
  • @marcorubio
    I wish I could share more,but for now I can say it’s pretty obvious to many that something is off with #Putin

    He has always been a killer,but his problem now is different & significant

    It would be a mistake to assume this Putin would react the same way he would have 5 years ago


    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1497393912821915648

    “5 years ago” - ho ho

    Trump in Putin’s pocket was ok, cos Putin wasn’t insane back then, just a run-of-the-mill killer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022

    If Google Maps is anything to go by, the Russians have completely penetrated downtown Kyiv.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ayv7DmYbOg

    You can hear the fighting on the audio. And that audio is coming from a camera in central Kyiv.
  • Chameleon said:

    Aslan said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I don't think the Russian fascist forces expected the Ukrainian resistance to have British anti-aircraft weapons. Litvinenko's revenge.
    The western weapons are certainly making this by far the closes peer-on-peer conflict since the 40. Even if the US was invading in the place of Russia it'd be more organised but they'd still be taking very significant casualties. Still the question about what happens if Putin doesn't achieve his objectives lingers. Peace and prosperity in our time is as dead as the snake island 13.
    It seems likely that Putin is going to achieve his objectives, and fairly quickly. Not guaranteed, but maybe a 1/5 shot.

    But sometimes 1/5 shots don’t come home. What then? It is a very important question, but impossible to answer. Nobody wants to contemplate the obvious answer: nuclear war.
  • Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    “They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.”

    It seems an astonishing failure. But why? Did Ukraine somehow get just enough warning? Easy to imagine a few Ukraine-friendly folk within Russian organisations (not necessarily military) could cause havoc for the invaders.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Chameleon said:

    Aslan said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I don't think the Russian fascist forces expected the Ukrainian resistance to have British anti-aircraft weapons. Litvinenko's revenge.
    The western weapons are certainly making this by far the closes peer-on-peer conflict since the 40. Even if the US was invading in the place of Russia it'd be more organised but they'd still be taking very significant casualties. Still the question about what happens if Putin doesn't achieve his objectives lingers. Peace and prosperity in our time is as dead as the snake island 13.
    It seems likely that Putin is going to achieve his objectives, and fairly quickly. Not guaranteed, but maybe a 1/5 shot.

    But sometimes 1/5 shots don’t come home. What then? It is a very important question, but impossible to answer. Nobody wants to contemplate the obvious answer: nuclear war.
    Objective number one is to win prestige at home. That looks increasingly distant, and I'm not referring to the reaction from the West.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    “They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.”

    It seems an astonishing failure. But why? Did Ukraine somehow get just enough warning? Easy to imagine a few Ukraine-friendly folk within Russian organisations (not necessarily military) could cause havoc for the invaders.

    It seems likely that Putin is going to achieve his objectives, and fairly quickly. Not guaranteed, but maybe a 1/5 shot.

    But sometimes 1/5 shots don’t come home. What then? It is a very important question, but impossible to answer. Nobody wants to contemplate the obvious answer: nuclear war.
    Just baffling. Ukraine definitely were tipped off by the UK/US, but even so only so many fighters could be hidden in the hour or so window, and definitely not enough to operate an effective air defence, let alone enough to mount a counter-offensive in the south.

    Putin likely will achieve the capturing of Kyiv, but the wider objectives remain out of reach, remember thousands of UKR troops have been trained in counter-insurgency and urban warfare by the SAS/CIA [pointedly not traditional army unit]. Putin does not have the capital to 'pacify' Ukraine. And I agree with your conclusion of escalation until the logical endpoint.
  • Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Looks like the internet is dead in Kyiv - all the on the ground reporters are silent. However at near enough 6am there the next morning is breaking, so it's another day survived, providing the President is still safe, which looks highly likely.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Chameleon said:

    Looks like the internet is dead in Kyiv - all the on the ground reporters are silent. However at near enough 6am there the next morning is breaking, so it's another day survived, providing the President is still safe, which looks highly likely.

    Listen in....the fighting is going on and heavy near the centre.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ayv7DmYbOg

    The ground reporters are probably silent because the fighting is now close.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited February 2022
    Are we going to impose sanctions on China, India and the United Arab Emirates? If not, why not? They are not opposing this slaughter.

    China is no surprise, with their ongoing genocide. UAE is just another nasty dictatorship, but with cash. But India? C’mon. That is extremely disappointing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    The View making headlines again....how dare Russia mess with one of the ladies of the View holiday to Italy.

    https://twitter.com/IdaTavakoli/status/1496975936159248384?s=20&t=PkUpHSGL8isSh-aDv1ATsQ
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    Looks like the internet is dead in Kyiv - all the on the ground reporters are silent. However at near enough 6am there the next morning is breaking, so it's another day survived, providing the President is still safe, which looks highly likely.

    Listen in....the fighting is going on and heavy near the centre.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ayv7DmYbOg

    The ground reporters are probably silent because the fighting is now close.
    Looks like Russia did take out the internet for a bit: https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1497417004319481858?s=21

    Their entire strategy for tonight was to have specialist groups infiltrate and destroy key targets, to be met by the main column of armour in the morning.

    The armour has failed, question is how well the specialists did at their decapitation objectives. Even if Zelynskyy was killed (which I doubt from reports and the sudden disappearance of both UK SF I know over the past few days), any proof of it will only galvanise resistance.

    As for Stuart's post, today the UAE/Indian ambassadors to the UK should be forced to make a very clear choice.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Are we going to impose sanctions on China, India and the United Arab Emirates? If not, why not? They are not opposing this slaughter.

    China is no surprise, with their ongoing genocide. UAE is just another nasty dictatorship, but with cash. But India? C’mon. That is extremely disappointing.

    I’d certainly cut off aid to India.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    As sunlight rises, and internet is restored, Kyiv seems to be the killing field urban warfare was expected to be. Only question is how the Russian special ops teams did.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited February 2022
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/25/journalist-refuses-to-disclose-source-material-in-1974-birmingham-pub-bombings

    A former MP and investigative journalist has refused to divulge the sources of his information about the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings in a hearing at the Old Bailey.

    Chris Mullin, 74, is challenging an application by West Midlands police to require him to disclose source material dating back to his investigation in 1985 and 1986.


    Would a compromise in this case be for Mullin to say if he thought they were IRA bombs? If so, old news, but let us not shed too many tears for the friends of the IRA who were wrongly convicted.

    If they weren’t IRA bombs, then let’s hear who perpetrated the crime.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Declarations of survival from the Ukrainian forces:

    ⚡️ Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Zaluzhny: “The enemy has not achieved the previously set strategic goals. His strength is weakening. We are getting stronger every hour! The plan of action is simple: you see, you can - destroy! You can't - give us the location of the enemy!

    https://twitter.com/StratCom_AFU/status/1497415342225776641

    However the Russian air attacks move west...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    And thanks to Pip Moss, very interesting as always.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2022
    US confirming reports of II-76s being shot down prior to troop departure: https://twitter.com/JimLaPorta/status/1497428052988641281

    Shocking losses for the VDV so far, who will have lost well over 500 between the airport and transpots.

    However both live feeds of the main square have just gone down. Going to be a crucial few hours now. It is clear that the Russian armour has been beaten back, but the troops on foot not so much.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Ukrainian police just released alert for Kyiv residents via Telegram: "Active fighting is taking place on the streets of our city. Please stay calm and be as careful as possible! If you are in hiding - do not leave it now. If you are at home - do not go to the windows ... 1/2
    do not go to the balconies. Hide indoors, for example in the bathroom, and cover yourself with something that will prevent injury from bullet fragments. If you hear sirens ("Air Alarm" signal) - go to the nearest shelter immediately!" 2/2


    https://twitter.com/zoyashef/status/1497427859971121153
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2022
    Kyiv media back online: https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1497433846463270914

    ⚡️Ukraine’s 101st Brigade destroys a column of Russian forces.

    Two cars, two trucks with tanks and another tank were neutralized near the Beresteiska station on Kyiv’s left bank, Ukraine’s Armed Forces reports.

    While I'm still young, my taxes in total have paid for a single NLAW, which is a price I'm happy to pay. Armour is getting mauled by our donations.

    https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1497434355244978177

    Russia's war against Ukraine, day three. Early morning here in Ukraine. Kyiv is standing. Enemy tanks were destroyed in the western part of the city. Sounds of gunfire and street fighting. President Zelensky is in the capital. Brave Ukrainian heroes continue to defend their land

    Still reliable reports of plenty of street to street fighting against small groups of Russians.

    https://twitter.com/zoyashef/status/1497427858519916549

    "Ukrainian police just released alert for Kyiv residents via Telegram: "Active fighting is taking place on the streets of our city. Please stay calm and be as careful as possible! If you are in hiding - do not leave it now. If you are at home - do not go to the windows ..."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    edited February 2022
    A Russian MP who voted to recognise the LNR and DNR is calling for an end to the war, saying he wasn’t voting to bomb Kiev.

    https://twitter.com/tweet_matveev/status/1497393053035810817
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I'm starting to wonder whether someone is deliberately degrading the quality of the Russian war effort from the inside.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    I missed the end of WW2 by just 9 years but grew up in the shadows of all that awfulness and at 18 I remember spending holiday time as a fresh-faced student in East Berlin under Communist rule and later Czechoslovakia a few years after the Russian tanks came back. I truly never thought we'd be returning to those times and I still pray that we won't. Today feels like an especially cruel time with all of the relief at the taming of Covid smashed by a Russian mad man. I am very much now feeling like the the old man who's pretty well seen it all.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
    I'm a little concerned that Russia might consider us a combatant in this war because of the weapons we've supplied to Ukraine.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Andy_JS said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I'm starting to wonder whether someone is deliberately degrading the quality of the Russian war effort from the inside.
    More likely, the military top brass haven’t been honest with Putin about their capabilities.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Russian missile hit Japanese freighter in Black Sea A Japanese-owned cargo ship was shelled in the Black Sea, south of Ukraine. A crewmember was injured. Reuters reports a Russian missile hit the ship's stern, causing the vessel to catch fire. | NHK https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20220226_13/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    darkage said:

    I got up, read the Ukrainians were still fighting, and cried. They are clearly putting up a hell of a fight.

    I've been continuously asking myself the question - would I fight or would I flee, when confronted with this? People in Ukraine are doing both. I don't think I would know until confronted with the choice.

    I’d be running. Mind you, it’s difficult for us to answer. We haven’t grown up with the threat, so it’s hard to put yourself in that position.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited February 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
    I'm a little concerned that Russia might consider us a combatant in this war because of the weapons we've supplied to Ukraine.
    In that case they would consider the same for all the other countries supplying the Ukrainians with weapons, everyone would be at risk, aside from the known appeasers and cowards on the European continent.

    It is an absolutely horrible decision, but there is no conclusion other than to do everything possible to fight Putin and bring him to justice for what he has done in Ukraine. I dislike the concept that there are 'lessons from history' or that 'history repeats itself', but he has created a situation where we are faced with Hitler 2. His 'resurrection of the Ancient Russian empire' is Anschluss/lebensraum 2 etc. All the provocation was done by him and those around him.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
    I'm a little concerned that Russia might consider us a combatant in this war because of the weapons we've supplied to Ukraine.
    In that case they would consider the same for all the other countries supplying the Ukrainians with weapons, everyone would be at risk, aside from the known appeasers and cowards on the European continent.

    It is an absolutely horrible decision, but there is no conclusion other than to do everything possible to fight Putin and bring him to justice for what he has done in Ukraine. I dislike the concept that there are 'lessons from history' or that 'history repeats itself', but he has created a situation where we are faced with Hitler 2. His 'resurrection of the Ancient Russian empire' is Anschluss/lebensraum 2 etc. All the provocation was done by him and those around him.
    Hitler without the human warmth.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Frankly surprised Kyiv isn't taken yet. I hope they can maintain their defiance against the odds, and that the president manages to survive.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    tlg86 said:

    darkage said:

    I got up, read the Ukrainians were still fighting, and cried. They are clearly putting up a hell of a fight.

    I've been continuously asking myself the question - would I fight or would I flee, when confronted with this? People in Ukraine are doing both. I don't think I would know until confronted with the choice.

    I’d be running. Mind you, it’s difficult for us to answer. We haven’t grown up with the threat, so it’s hard to put yourself in that position.
    It is a bit like what you do when someone is getting assaulted. I've seen this a few times when much younger. I've tried to stop a couple of assaults and ran away from others. A split second instinctive decision.

    On a more theoretical level, I have been thinking about this question continously because I have got close family who live in the Baltics. In fact, my son is a dual national and will be conscripted in to the army when he is older, so it is a real possibility that he will have to fight at some point in his lifetime.

    Removing the extended family to England is not a good option, even though it is possible and we have the resources to do it. What sort of life is it to be removed from your homeland, whilst you let other people defend it and die in the process of doing so? And if much of Europe folds to a dictatorship, how safe are we in England?

    These are just really difficult questions with no simple answer, but my instinctive answer is that I think we should be fighting and supporting everyone who is resisting this tyranny, in Russia and outside of it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    edited February 2022
    Residential buildings have been hit in Kiev.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497460239196635137

    image
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Chameleon - I hope Mr Zelensky is getting some good protection.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Scott_xP said:

    Russian missile hit Japanese freighter in Black Sea A Japanese-owned cargo ship was shelled in the Black Sea, south of Ukraine. A crewmember was injured. Reuters reports a Russian missile hit the ship's stern, causing the vessel to catch fire. | NHK https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20220226_13/

    Another sign that things aren't going well for Russia to put it mildly.
  • A Russian veterans group called the Committee for Soldiers' Mothers said that Russian conscripts are writing home in shock at finding themselves on the frontlines—where Russian law says only volunteer troops are supposed to be.


    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1497427971841404935
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Russia is ending its cooperation on space launches and withdrawing all personnel and launch crews from French Guiana.

    https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/1497456827881172994
  • Ukrainian soldiers let captured Russian call his parents:

    https://cdn.archiveddit.com/reddit/publicfreakout/t1h7k4.mp4
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Chris said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
    I'm a little concerned that Russia might consider us a combatant in this war because of the weapons we've supplied to Ukraine.
    In that case they would consider the same for all the other countries supplying the Ukrainians with weapons, everyone would be at risk, aside from the known appeasers and cowards on the European continent.

    It is an absolutely horrible decision, but there is no conclusion other than to do everything possible to fight Putin and bring him to justice for what he has done in Ukraine. I dislike the concept that there are 'lessons from history' or that 'history repeats itself', but he has created a situation where we are faced with Hitler 2. His 'resurrection of the Ancient Russian empire' is Anschluss/lebensraum 2 etc. All the provocation was done by him and those around him.
    Hitler without the human warmth.
    But with a little more homoeroticism.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited February 2022
    "Scott Gorbach
    @ScottGorbach
    Wow. Ukrainians wrecking Russian Motorized Infantry with Molotov cocktails at improvised roadblocks on the outskirts of Kyiv:"
    https://twitter.com/ScottGorbach/status/1497424391117881347

    Astonishing video, but surely the most modern tanks couldn't be so easily attacked? Maybe the Russians are using old-fashioned ones.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Andy_JS said:

    "Scott Gorbach
    @ScottGorbach
    Wow. Ukrainians wrecking Russian Motorized Infantry with Molotov cocktails at improvised roadblocks on the outskirts of Kyiv:"
    https://twitter.com/ScottGorbach/status/1497424391117881347

    Astonishing video, but surely the most modern tanks couldn't be so easily attacked? Maybe the Russians are using old-fashioned ones.

    That's a video from 2014.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIp34wW3k90
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Andy_JS said:

    "Scott Gorbach
    @ScottGorbach
    Wow. Ukrainians wrecking Russian Motorized Infantry with Molotov cocktails at improvised roadblocks on the outskirts of Kyiv:"
    https://twitter.com/ScottGorbach/status/1497424391117881347

    Astonishing video, but surely the most modern tanks couldn't be so easily attacked? Maybe the Russians are using old-fashioned ones.

    The reply to the tweets suggest it is a fake, an old video from 2014.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    The Americans really need to try anything to get away from the self destructive hyper partisanship of recent years. They need a Senate where good people of whatever party can work together in the National interest. If this electoral reform makes Senators less vulnerable to the partisans on both sides it is undoubtedly a good thing.

    For a nationwide roll, like President, they really should move away from a State by State counting mechanism too. The current system makes the votes of the majority of Amercian votes completely pointless with all the effort put in a small number of swing states. If the electoral college votes were split according to shares then every state would be worth campaiging for and winning without winning a majority of the votes would be much more difficult, encouraging parties to be less extreme and more consensual.
  • Video from one of the apartments in the building struck by a munition near the Zhuliani airport in Kyiv.
    https://t.me/insiderUKR/21867


    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1497466638781800450
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Ukrainian soldiers let captured Russian call his parents:

    https://cdn.archiveddit.com/reddit/publicfreakout/t1h7k4.mp4

    If that’s a sample of the state of the average Russian soldier, no wonder they’re struggling. He sounded hopelessly confused.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
    I'm a little concerned that Russia might consider us a combatant in this war because of the weapons we've supplied to Ukraine.
    In that case they would consider the same for all the other countries supplying the Ukrainians with weapons, everyone would be at risk, aside from the known appeasers and cowards on the European continent.

    It is an absolutely horrible decision, but there is no conclusion other than to do everything possible to fight Putin and bring him to justice for what he has done in Ukraine. I dislike the concept that there are 'lessons from history' or that 'history repeats itself', but he has created a situation where we are faced with Hitler 2. His 'resurrection of the Ancient Russian empire' is Anschluss/lebensraum 2 etc. All the provocation was done by him and those around him.
    Hitler without the human warmth.
    But with a little more homoeroticism.
    Though relative number of testicles unknown.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited February 2022
    Incidentally can somebody please let @Quincel know @TSE has hacked his account and is posting AV threads in his name?

    (Very interesting though.)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Russian missile hit Japanese freighter in Black Sea A Japanese-owned cargo ship was shelled in the Black Sea, south of Ukraine. A crewmember was injured. Reuters reports a Russian missile hit the ship's stern, causing the vessel to catch fire. | NHK https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20220226_13/

    Another sign that things aren't going well for Russia to put it mildly.
    Shame it wasn't a Chinese one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Chris said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chris said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Yokes said:

    dixiedean said:

    If you'd told me 48 hours ago that there would be even a question about Russia winning this War.

    Depends what winning is considered to be, doesn't it
    Presumably it'd be hard for Russia to not come out ahead in terms of gained territory etc, given the disparities, but the ambition shown by the initial assaults would suggest limited gains (or failure to exact regime change etc) would be a failure?
    But the 'disputed' territory is held by Russia already. Surely everywhere else would face massive resistance?
    The area claimed by the 'independent' republics was not entirely held by them. I'd assumed if a limited goal was intended it was to expand that area so that the entire areas claimed by them would be under their control. Even if that was all they managed, it would still be a gain.
    Not much of one.
    Considering what has been lost.
    Russia has lost all credibility in the civilised world. I really don't know where it goes from here.
    Regime change. It is Putin that is the problem. The Russian people are his victims too.
    Russia is the problem. All of my life they've been threatening my death. This must lead to the end of Russia.
    That is crazy talk. Russia is a geographic fact. Do you plan genocide?
    Craziness is not confined to Russia. Brexit for example was a blatantly crazy movement, and continues to drive its proponents bonkers.

    We should not be surprised when we see people willing on nuclear annihilation. It is going to happen one day. It is inevitable.
    I'm a little concerned that Russia might consider us a combatant in this war because of the weapons we've supplied to Ukraine.
    In that case they would consider the same for all the other countries supplying the Ukrainians with weapons, everyone would be at risk, aside from the known appeasers and cowards on the European continent.

    It is an absolutely horrible decision, but there is no conclusion other than to do everything possible to fight Putin and bring him to justice for what he has done in Ukraine. I dislike the concept that there are 'lessons from history' or that 'history repeats itself', but he has created a situation where we are faced with Hitler 2. His 'resurrection of the Ancient Russian empire' is Anschluss/lebensraum 2 etc. All the provocation was done by him and those around him.
    Hitler without the human warmth.
    But with a little more homoeroticism.
    Though relative number of testicles unknown.
    The amount of balls Putin talks makes up for his lack in other areas.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    “They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.”

    It seems an astonishing failure. But why? Did Ukraine somehow get just enough warning? Easy to imagine a few Ukraine-friendly folk within Russian organisations (not necessarily military) could cause havoc for the invaders.
    They are clearly getting real time intelligence from the US and the Brits but to their credit they seem to have been able to act on it to protect some of their assets. Still ultimately a one sided fight though and the odd success cheers the soul but does not change the strategic picture.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    @ZelenskyyUa
    It is a crucial moment to close the long-standing discussion once and for all and decide on Ukraine's membership in the #EU. Discussed with @eucopresident further effective assistance and the heroic struggle of Ukrainians for their free future.


    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497469956686028804
  • James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    Very interesting about China's abstention.

    That will have infuriated and possibly bewildered Putin.

    India and UAE also surprising. India less so because it has huge trade links with Russia, including arms and it had threatened to set up a new banking system to by-pass SWIFT if Russia was suspended from it.

    The UAE was more surprising and may revolve around concerns that Russia will ally with Iran.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    DavidL said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    “They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.”

    It seems an astonishing failure. But why? Did Ukraine somehow get just enough warning? Easy to imagine a few Ukraine-friendly folk within Russian organisations (not necessarily military) could cause havoc for the invaders.
    They are clearly getting real time intelligence from the US and the Brits but to their credit they seem to have been able to act on it to protect some of their assets. Still ultimately a one sided fight though and the odd success cheers the soul but does not change the strategic picture.
    But in the bigger picture, if you're a dictator riding a hungry tiger, you don't want the tiger to experience too much pain when you set it to feed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Ukrainian soldiers let captured Russian call his parents:

    https://cdn.archiveddit.com/reddit/publicfreakout/t1h7k4.mp4

    Remarkable that the phone network still works. Would have though that would have been one of the things to target.

    Also, if the reports are true that Kyiv is silent this morning, that surely is very odd? There was clearly intense fighting overnight, within suburbs of the city. Have the Russian generals declared a de facto ceasefire, while they work out what the hell to do next? Or do they command an army of vampires, that can only fight in the dark?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Scott Gorbach
    @ScottGorbach
    Wow. Ukrainians wrecking Russian Motorized Infantry with Molotov cocktails at improvised roadblocks on the outskirts of Kyiv:"
    https://twitter.com/ScottGorbach/status/1497424391117881347

    Astonishing video, but surely the most modern tanks couldn't be so easily attacked? Maybe the Russians are using old-fashioned ones.

    The reply to the tweets suggest it is a fake, an old video from 2014.
    Nothing boils my piss more than old footage being used on social media when wars are on. Ought to be a life ban for anyone coming up with it
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Scott Gorbach
    @ScottGorbach
    Wow. Ukrainians wrecking Russian Motorized Infantry with Molotov cocktails at improvised roadblocks on the outskirts of Kyiv:"
    https://twitter.com/ScottGorbach/status/1497424391117881347

    Astonishing video, but surely the most modern tanks couldn't be so easily attacked? Maybe the Russians are using old-fashioned ones.

    The reply to the tweets suggest it is a fake, an old video from 2014.
    Nothing boils my piss more than old footage being used on social media when wars are on. Ought to be a life ban for anyone coming up with it
    Indeed. The BBC are doing a really good job on this posting regular reality checks. Yesterday's was brilliant.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60528276

    We knock the BBC but this is them at their very best
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Ukrainian soldiers let captured Russian call his parents:

    https://cdn.archiveddit.com/reddit/publicfreakout/t1h7k4.mp4

    Remarkable that the phone network still works. Would have though that would have been one of the things to target.

    Also, if the reports are true that Kyiv is silent this morning, that surely is very odd? There was clearly intense fighting overnight, within suburbs of the city. Have the Russian generals declared a de facto ceasefire, while they work out what the hell to do next? Or do they command an army of vampires, that can only fight in the dark?
    AIUI there are often pauses in battles, for many reasons. Often you just need to pause whilst logistics catches up, providing you with more ammunition, food and supplies. Or they might be waiting for more unites to come forward for the battle for the city.

    A pause isn't necessarily good news... :(
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    Ukrainian soldiers let captured Russian call his parents:

    https://cdn.archiveddit.com/reddit/publicfreakout/t1h7k4.mp4

    Remarkable that the phone network still works. Would have though that would have been one of the things to target.

    Also, if the reports are true that Kyiv is silent this morning, that surely is very odd? There was clearly intense fighting overnight, within suburbs of the city. Have the Russian generals declared a de facto ceasefire, while they work out what the hell to do next? Or do they command an army of vampires, that can only fight in the dark?
    Maybe the Russian Army is too frightened to fight civilians without the advantage of night-sight technology.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    It's time to strip Russia of its UN Security Council seat.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    rcs1000 said:

    It's time to strip Russia of its UN Security Council seat.

    Maybe we could give it to Taiwan instead.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    DavidL said:

    Mr Zelensky said "the fight is here. I need ammunition, not a ride", the Associated Press reported, citing a senior intelligence official with direct knowledge of the conversation.

    This guy is somethig else. We must make sure he gets it.

    Indeed. He has a gift for rhetoric too. He’s become the Churchill of our days.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "Володимир Зеленський
    @ZelenskyyUa

    A new day on the diplomatic frontline began with a conversation with
    @EmmanuelMacron
    . Weapons and equipment from our partners are on the way to Ukraine. The anti-war coalition is working!"

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497456125431717888
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    rcs1000 said:

    It's time to strip Russia of its UN Security Council seat.

    I'm not so sure. We don't want to unite the Russian people against the West, which currently they aren't. Maybe temporarily whilst Putin is in charge? Anything to incentivise Russian people to rise up against him.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022

    Ukrainian soldiers let captured Russian call his parents:

    https://cdn.archiveddit.com/reddit/publicfreakout/t1h7k4.mp4

    Remarkable that the phone network still works. Would have though that would have been one of the things to target.

    Also, if the reports are true that Kyiv is silent this morning, that surely is very odd? There was clearly intense fighting overnight, within suburbs of the city. Have the Russian generals declared a de facto ceasefire, while they work out what the hell to do next? Or do they command an army of vampires, that can only fight in the dark?
    A pause isn't necessarily good news
    I hope Putin is militarily sent packing.

    I fear he won't be and that this could end swiftly.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    A quick question.

    Would Russia have committed their best forces first? We have to remember that they are keeping quite a bit back at the moment. I was surprised to see reports that Kazakhstan have refused to send troops to Russia's aid. I suppose they have enough problems of their own.

    Also these failed Special Ops attempts - because Putin wants a 'clean' victory or is this some kind of weird showing off as one analyst is saying.
  • We’re seeing a lot of disagreements on the actual Russian progress in the south. British intelligence says that Melitopol hasn’t fallen, while I have seen some reliable claims that Kherson is still under Ukrainian control.

    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497474129393446914
  • James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
  • Chameleon said:

    Aslan said:

    Chameleon said:

    Apparently a Ukrainian airstrike has driven Russia out of Kherson back across the Dniper.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497392901029957632

    If the Russians do not yet have air superiority (which they don't have), it raises serious questions about how well planned the Russian offensive is. They had the resources to have air superiority via destroying the grounded Ukrainian airforce in the first few minutes of the war.

    Meanwhile the assault down 'Victory Avenue' in Kyiv has been repelled.

    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497394408618184705

    Not going to plan.

    I don't think the Russian fascist forces expected the Ukrainian resistance to have British anti-aircraft weapons. Litvinenko's revenge.
    The western weapons are certainly making this by far the closes peer-on-peer conflict since the 40. Even if the US was invading in the place of Russia it'd be more organised but they'd still be taking very significant casualties. Still the question about what happens if Putin doesn't achieve his objectives lingers. Peace and prosperity in our time is as dead as the snake island 13.
    It seems likely that Putin is going to achieve his objectives, and fairly quickly. Not guaranteed, but maybe a 1/5 shot.

    But sometimes 1/5 shots don’t come home. What then? It is a very important question, but impossible to answer. Nobody wants to contemplate the obvious answer: nuclear war.
    Nuclear war against whom? Why would even a half-crazed Putin order the nuclear annihilation of the region he wants to reincorporate into Russia? And even a glance at a map would warn him of the danger of residual becquerels being blown by the wind back to mother Russia.
  • A quick question.

    Would Russia have committed their best forces first? We have to remember that they are keeping quite a bit back at the moment. I was surprised to see reports that Kazakhstan have refused to send troops to Russia's aid. I suppose they have enough problems of their own.

    Also these failed Special Ops attempts - because Putin wants a 'clean' victory or is this some kind of weird showing off as one analyst is saying.

    Probably the former. If Putin aims to absorb Ukraine into Russia, he'd not want it a smoking ruin.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    I am told he lacks the personal support of Tory MPs.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    Interesting.

    My take is this. I think if Russia stumbles in Ukraine and Putin is seen to be given a bloody nose then Boris comes out looking good.

    If Russia crushes Ukraine we all look crap and that reflects badly on Boris too. The west will have failed.

    But conflicts are really hard to call. At the outset of the Falklands there was very little appetite for our involvement and Margaret Thatcher was unpopular. As the Task Force set sail so the tabloids got going and soon jingoism flowed. The year after we re-took the islands she won a thumping majority, albeit up against an opponent who was almost as left-wing as Jeremy Corbyn.

    But if Big Dog goes there does seem to be something in the idea of a non-Cabinet MP coming to the fore.

    I really like Penny Mordaunt. Another with a military background.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    James Heappey MP (Armed Forces minister) pretty impressive on Sky News.

    One to watch.

    It has been fascinating watching Tom Tugendhat on the news. A Lieutenant-Colonel with experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and then with the civilian administration in the latter. Notably shish-kebabs the Big Dog at every opportunity on his lack of comprehension of foreign affairs. A declared candidate for leader should a contest arise. And he continues to lead from the front, detailed criticism of the PM and our woeful position.

    I know that some people think Ukraine saves the Big Dog, that there can be no move against him now. But remember the facts - the PM is a bumbling incompetent cretin with no grasp for detail. Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later.

    So could Tugendhat rise from relative obscurity and be a real challenger when a vacancy does occur - or help force one?
    "Fucking up this crisis is almost as certain as the sun setting in the west later."

    That has yet to be determined. Certainly some of the government's early actions - such as giving the Ukrainians NLAWs - were prompt and potentially very useful to Ukrainian forces. And meaningful sanctions are not proving as easy as some suppose for any country.

    As with Covid, how the government handled the crisis will only be determined later. Although I fear you will already have made up your mind ...
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited February 2022
    deleted
This discussion has been closed.