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The outcast in Anchorage: A senate storm brews in Alaska – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did we discuss this yesterday evening?

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1497270460396015621

    "Jim Pickard
    @PickardJE

    @KwasiKwarteng summoned BP chief Bernard Looney this afternoon to explain why it owns a 20% stake in Rosneft, which provides fuel to Russia army
    - Kwarteng also "uneasy" about the fact that Looney sits alongside Putin on the Russian Geographical Society board"

    Crikey, that’s pretty pathetic from Kwarteng. This is all public knowledge.
    He knows why. Emphasis is on the *explain*

    I’m hearing BP has been told to sell
    That's what all of the above really means. The explain is - why he hasn't dumped it already?
    British Petroleum are literally Fuelling Putin’s attack.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    Scott_xP said:

    Ukrainian forces ‘repulsed’ a Russian air assault this morning - 60 Russian soldiers from 3 helicopters attacked near Brody, 1.5 hours outside Lviv, in Western Ukraine. Casualties unknown. Russian paratroopers have retreated into the forest: Lviv mayor
    https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1497514404505538561

    What in god's name would they be doing there? Critical infrastructure?

    Or are these the secret highways for the Ukrainian air force?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    Given it's basically impossible to impose proper sanctions on Russia while NordStream1 continues to pump gas into Germany and cash to Putin, we might as well just go ahead with NS2.

    I propose giving the pipeline itself to Ukraine.

    The whole point of NordStream 2 is to bypass Ukraine.
    I know. I'm saying don't let it bypass Ukraine; make Ukraine a partner in it.
    It's a pipeline from Russia to Germany (largely) in the middle of the Baltic.

    image

    What exactly would you "give" to the Ukrainians? The control of the pumps?
    The profits.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,349
    https://www.gofundme.com/f/helpukraine

    This fundraiser for Ukraine is doing well. They have hit £375k. I think they will need all the money they can get.

  • darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ms. Heathener, being against woke bullshit only equates to being far right in the fantastical imagination of the far left who are so love in with the woke stuff to start with.

    It's just a regurgitation of "Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler".

    It's more the staggering detachment from reality of the likes of SLeon to be thinking that gender-neutral toilets and the like should be high up the list of existential threats to the world
    One interesting thing, and I am sure Putin disapproves, is that Ukraine is becoming more Woke. Sure, older attitudes persist, but culture change takes time.

    This is Kyiv Pride before the pandemic:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48738251

    One of the Ukranian gold medalists at the Olympics is black, and now also an MP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhan_Beleniuk

    Women are 10% of Ukranian military, and serve in all roles, including combat, with equal rights.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2022/0223/We-want-to-keep-Ukraine-free.-Why-women-rise-in-Ukraine-army

    Indeed one of their recent pilot casualties was this young woman:

    https://twitter.com/diwanshu_tomar/status/1497354469201571842?t=E5GN3rZ3S-_C3j5ks-fDkg&s=19

    Being Woke doesn't seem to be impairing their will to fight. Indeed it seems to be a powerful motivating factor. A freedom worth fighting for.
    Maybe I am naive but I do not see any of that as being woke but something to be welcomed
    We should probably stop using the word Woke. It makes it difficult to distinguish good social change from bad social change, and creates artificial divisions that frustrate meaningful debate and objective analysis. Some things that may be described as 'woke' are good, others are bad, some are neutral. It should be possible to value living in a free and equal society without regarding yourself as Woke.
    I agree but it's generally only being used a term of insult by those on the right. None of the many people I know with left of centre views goes around proclaiming themselves to be 'Woke'.

    It replaced 'political correctness' when that term lost its zing because most people adopted attitudes respecting the rights of others. 'Political correctness' and 'Woke' are really simply 'informed politeness' in most instances.
    If it were just about politeness then it wouldn't be divisive.

    It's divisive because one side insist it's just about politeness, whilst their more active members really use it as a cloak for cultural Marxism and hysterically object to anyone pointing this out as 'starting a culture war'.

    To be fair, there are other extreme elements on the other side who don't particularly care for being polite or accomodating to those of a different background to them, but there's a far bigger number who object to it because they see some of what they're asked to belief in and advocate as unhinged, and don't they really don't like the high risk consequences of pointing that out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,934
    OllyT said:

    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time.

    Tory MPs agree with you

    There has unsurprisingly been a mood-shift in Westminster this week.
    "Whether the PM was truthful about the parties is obviously important, but [the Ukraine-Russia crisis] is really, really fucking important,” a former cabinet minister told @adampayne26.
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite

    The will still of course be massive fall-out if the Met decide to issue Boris Johnson a FPN over parties in the coming weeks, but many believe given the magnitude of the current crisis, the moment for a leadership challenge has passed... for now.

    Story: https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite
  • pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world

    I'm sorry BigG. We in the West have done next to nothing. There is good reason why we have done next to nothing we don't want Putin to escalate this fiasco to involve the EU and the UK.

    Clinton's biggest regret was he did nothing about the genocide in Rwanda. We are watching, not genocide, but the destruction of a nation. The upshot either way is thousands of innocents are slaughtered whilst we watch on.

    Our declarations "but Ukraine is not in NATO" are sops to ourselves.They are a sovereign nation invaded by an aggressor and we (the West) have sanctioned 70% of Russian banks. Huh, 70%?

    Now I don't want British troops involved, I don't want my children conscripted for a world war, but neither can I sit back with satisfaction and claim leaders representing me have done all they can on my behalf, they haven't. In some cases, their vested interests trump my horror.

    I don't know how to counter Putin, that is not my job. But neither, it seems, do those whose job it is to deal with Putin.

    I am not suggesting a party political or Remainer/ Leave bias here. Whoever they represent, Western leaders have been guilty of dereliction of duty for at least eight years and that includes Starmer and your beloved "Boris".
    When I was calling for us to act against Russia in 2014, 2016 (I think), 2018, etc, etc, where was your voice? Were you in the "Russia's ambitions are detrimental to the world; we need to act hard" camp or the "You're a warmonger risking WWIII" camp?

    Because actions then would have been a damned sight easier than they are now. And we still face a threat of WWIII.
    Yes they would, which is why I have cited eight years of inaction and dereliction of duty by Western leaders.

    And, don't you blame me. I was outraged that we in the West did nothing about a downed airliner. We begged for permission to recover our bodies. That single act was brushed under the carpet. That represents the West sitting on its hands while Putin toyed with us.

    I was with Elwood weeks ago when he demanded NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine. That is recorded here.
    I'm talking about calling for action over the last eight years. This could have been prevented. It should have been prevented. It was predicted.

    And yes, a Conservative / coalition government has been in place for that time. But remember Miliband's hideous backturn over the Syria vote? Remember Corbyn, Labour's leader, who pretended to be rather (ahem) anti-war?

    Putin has gambled that the west's weaknesses would prevent us from stopping his territorial ambitions. The UK's negligence played into it - but the blame lies all over the west. It was too hard to do, so it wasn't done.

    (I'd actually argue May did very well over Salisbury, although it could have been used as a catalyst for firmer actions.)
    I think Putin thinks the West is a wet lettuce.
    IanB2 said:

    There are quite a few videos of Russian tanks that have run out of fuel or been abandoned. It seems the have problem with logistics and morale.

    I have a colleague in my network who was a Royal Navy captain and really knows his onions.

    He's adamant that Russian forces aren't as strong as they look on paper because their raw material, training, and staff work is highly variable, whereas British forces are tip-top.

    Basically, his argument was that military effectiveness, just as in all other walks of life, comes down to people and organisational culture.
    Except that the British military tends to have a hugely inflated perception of its own comparative effectiveness. Cf what we were saying about the Americans when we went in to replace them in Basra, brutally exposed as hubris by subsequent events
    Yes, there was a bit of arrogance in there.

    He also said that there comes a point where numbers absolutely matter, and the British Army is now tokenistic.

    I'm afraid I think we now have to raise defence spending to the point where can deploy at least one fully armed heavy warfighting division on the continent, permanently. I suspect that will require us to expand the British army by 15-20,000 men back up to about 95-100k strong, and probably an extra £12-16bn per year in defence spending.

    But I think we have to do it.
    But I'm afraid that this comes back yet again to the incapability of this government (and quite possibly any government that replaces it) to take unpopular decisions.

    Most of the public doesn't give a shit about defence. Much of the public has also been squeezed so hard by taxation, ridiculous housing costs, years of stagnant or negative wage growth and now steep inflation that it hasn't much left to give. So, in the end, a massive increase in defence spending can only be funded by soaking the elderly (through ditching automatic increases to the state pension, and extracting property wealth through large increases in IHT and/or the advent of land taxation,) or by taking an axe to core public service spending priorities.

    So it won't happen.
    We'll see. My perception is that public opinion is shifting, and the Government can shape it as well as reflect it.
    Even if that is true, the public desire to spend money on anything extends only as far as that money is extracted from someone who isn't them. The nanosecond any Government goes after the gigantic stock of wealth locked up in housing - which is the only way we're going to make serious progress on funding any of the mountain of priorities and disasters that we've somehow got to manage all at the same time - the violent tantrum from the grey vote will be so extreme that it will run away in fright.

    All that will end up happening in the end is that working age voters will be bled absolutely white and the whole lot will be sunk into inflating the state pension and desperately trying to clear the backlog of hip operations. The more I contemplate the situation, the more hopeless it looks.
    The gigantic stock of wealth locked up in housing and the freedom to use it will be worth Jack Shit if the West ends up becoming hostage to global autarky because it decided to be impotent and didn't stand up to be counted when it mattered.
    I'm hoping there will be a consensus that rearmament, at a minimum, is required. But I see no sign of this in statements from politicians.

    What do we do, as citizens in a democracy, to make this happen?
    Well, I emailed my MP this morning as a start.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Ukrainian forces ‘repulsed’ a Russian air assault this morning - 60 Russian soldiers from 3 helicopters attacked near Brody, 1.5 hours outside Lviv, in Western Ukraine. Casualties unknown. Russian paratroopers have retreated into the forest: Lviv mayor
    https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1497514404505538561

    What in god's name would they be doing there? Critical infrastructure?

    Or are these the secret highways for the Ukrainian air force?

    Trying to secure infrastructure to pave the way for a land advance?

    EDIT : Is there an airbase there?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Ukrainian forces ‘repulsed’ a Russian air assault this morning - 60 Russian soldiers from 3 helicopters attacked near Brody, 1.5 hours outside Lviv, in Western Ukraine. Casualties unknown. Russian paratroopers have retreated into the forest: Lviv mayor
    https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1497514404505538561

    @ragipsoylu
    UPDATE:

    ⚡️ Ukrainian security forces in the Lviv region denied the information of the mayor of Lviv Andriy Sadovoy about the landing of Russian troops near Brody.

    They say that it was Ukrainian aviation.
    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497507322251210755
  • Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Ukrainian forces ‘repulsed’ a Russian air assault this morning - 60 Russian soldiers from 3 helicopters attacked near Brody, 1.5 hours outside Lviv, in Western Ukraine. Casualties unknown. Russian paratroopers have retreated into the forest: Lviv mayor
    https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1497514404505538561

    What in god's name would they be doing there? Critical infrastructure?

    Or are these the secret highways for the Ukrainian air force?
    Spread the defenders? Sounds lihe the mayor might be a bit excited though.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
    The EU does, it’s based in Brussels, and the Hungarians are effectively vetoing action. The US the whole thing would collapse the global payments system. They’re only trying to kick Russia oit and that requires agreement.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Kherson, South Ukraine - A video showing a large column of Russian combat engineers that got absolutely annihilated by Ukrainian defenders 🇺🇦.

    The Russian army is taking huge losses.


    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1497500029099118594

    Lots of what looks suspiciously like sand there. I think that is footage of what was left of the Iraqi army when they fled from Kuwait City.
    The Z logos on the vehicles are interesting though. I remember reading the Russians were marking their vehicles that way. Maybe it is true after all.
    No snow around, either.
    I froze the clip at 23 seconds and took the below screenshot. Looks like Cyrillic lettering to me - certainly not Arabic



    Yes, it’s Russian. And look at that Z

    Question is: where? And who wiped them out?
    It's in Kherson, and apparently they're engineering vehicles for bridging rivers.

    Comments suggest they were taken out with Turkish donated Bayraktars

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayraktar_TB2
    There's definitely a couple of bridging units there. They're the ones with two long sections on the back; they unfold to produce a quick bridge. We have something similar in the Titan AVLB, although ours are based on a tank, not a truck.
    http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0062.html

    As an aside, this is the sort of thing armies generally only have in smaller quantities compared to (say) tanks as they are so specialist. I wonder if losing three or four of these units will cause Russia some problems?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379

    Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
    Have a feeling the Poland-Hungary alliance within the EU may come under some strain here.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931

    Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
    SWIFT is actually run as a Belgian registered company. In theory, the Belgians could simply pass a sanction law which would force SWIFT to cut off Russia.

    In practice (the existing example is Iran) the Belgians waited until the EU passed a ruling as a unanimous group.
  • Given it's basically impossible to impose proper sanctions on Russia while NordStream1 continues to pump gas into Germany and cash to Putin, we might as well just go ahead with NS2.

    I propose giving the pipeline itself to Ukraine.

    The whole point of NordStream 2 is to bypass Ukraine.
    I know. I'm saying don't let it bypass Ukraine; make Ukraine a partner in it.
    It's a pipeline from Russia to Germany (largely) in the middle of the Baltic.

    image

    What exactly would you "give" to the Ukrainians? The control of the pumps?
    The profits.
    I'd call it the SchröderSchilling or the MuttiMoney.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,245
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Heathener said:

    There are quite a few videos of Russian tanks that have run out of fuel or been abandoned. It seems the have problem with logistics and morale.

    I have a colleague in my network who was a Royal Navy captain and really knows his onions.

    He's adamant that Russian forces aren't as strong as they look on paper because their raw material, training, and staff work is highly variable, whereas British forces are tip-top.

    Basically, his argument was that military effectiveness, just as in all other walks of life, comes down to people and organisational culture.
    Yep.

    When I worked for a short while in intelligence (sorry that disappoints you MM) that was very much the prevailing view.

    I admit I'm way out of touch these days, and left that behind long ago, but it did become something of a running joke.

    Russian military might was vastly exaggerated. This may have changed and their intelligence and cyber warfare suggests they are a different entity now.
    In a social media age it may be that the biggest variable in the use of arms in Europe, including Russia, is the willingness of mothers, wives and sisters to accept stoically the return of their men in body bags after dying for a worthless cause.

    But for that the UK would have intervened in Syria in aid of Cameron's vain belief that there were coherent groups to fight with for a new liberal woke cool Syria. Parliament saved us form this, and this particular cat is now out of the bag. Afghanistan made 'Never Again In An Unwinnable Cause' permanent.

    Which could be a complete disaster of course. A society that is not willing to fight for its own existence will not and does not deserve to survive. I think the government in this case was adamant that there will be no British troops on the ground because of the psychological humiliation of both Iraq and Afghanistan. We cannot be scared into immobility. Our values are worth fighting for.

    It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad has happened?

    But in the end, it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. I know now folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't.

    They kept going because they were holding on to something. That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for
    In fact, "civilised' (for which some people read, soft, decadent) peoples have a pretty impressive record of delivering violence effectively, even if it takes time to get them to the point that they're willing to do so.

    I think it's a complete misreading of history to think that prosperous peoples lack the will to defend themselves and their way of life when they have to.

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,349

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Reports 27 countries are actively providing weapons to Ukraine

    Time for us to unite, stop sniping, and be proud of the response currently on its way from nations across the world

    I'm sorry BigG. We in the West have done next to nothing. There is good reason why we have done next to nothing we don't want Putin to escalate this fiasco to involve the EU and the UK.

    Clinton's biggest regret was he did nothing about the genocide in Rwanda. We are watching, not genocide, but the destruction of a nation. The upshot either way is thousands of innocents are slaughtered whilst we watch on.

    Our declarations "but Ukraine is not in NATO" are sops to ourselves.They are a sovereign nation invaded by an aggressor and we (the West) have sanctioned 70% of Russian banks. Huh, 70%?

    Now I don't want British troops involved, I don't want my children conscripted for a world war, but neither can I sit back with satisfaction and claim leaders representing me have done all they can on my behalf, they haven't. In some cases, their vested interests trump my horror.

    I don't know how to counter Putin, that is not my job. But neither, it seems, do those whose job it is to deal with Putin.

    I am not suggesting a party political or Remainer/ Leave bias here. Whoever they represent, Western leaders have been guilty of dereliction of duty for at least eight years and that includes Starmer and your beloved "Boris".
    When I was calling for us to act against Russia in 2014, 2016 (I think), 2018, etc, etc, where was your voice? Were you in the "Russia's ambitions are detrimental to the world; we need to act hard" camp or the "You're a warmonger risking WWIII" camp?

    Because actions then would have been a damned sight easier than they are now. And we still face a threat of WWIII.
    Yes they would, which is why I have cited eight years of inaction and dereliction of duty by Western leaders.

    And, don't you blame me. I was outraged that we in the West did nothing about a downed airliner. We begged for permission to recover our bodies. That single act was brushed under the carpet. That represents the West sitting on its hands while Putin toyed with us.

    I was with Elwood weeks ago when he demanded NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine. That is recorded here.
    I'm talking about calling for action over the last eight years. This could have been prevented. It should have been prevented. It was predicted.

    And yes, a Conservative / coalition government has been in place for that time. But remember Miliband's hideous backturn over the Syria vote? Remember Corbyn, Labour's leader, who pretended to be rather (ahem) anti-war?

    Putin has gambled that the west's weaknesses would prevent us from stopping his territorial ambitions. The UK's negligence played into it - but the blame lies all over the west. It was too hard to do, so it wasn't done.

    (I'd actually argue May did very well over Salisbury, although it could have been used as a catalyst for firmer actions.)
    I think Putin thinks the West is a wet lettuce.
    IanB2 said:

    There are quite a few videos of Russian tanks that have run out of fuel or been abandoned. It seems the have problem with logistics and morale.

    I have a colleague in my network who was a Royal Navy captain and really knows his onions.

    He's adamant that Russian forces aren't as strong as they look on paper because their raw material, training, and staff work is highly variable, whereas British forces are tip-top.

    Basically, his argument was that military effectiveness, just as in all other walks of life, comes down to people and organisational culture.
    Except that the British military tends to have a hugely inflated perception of its own comparative effectiveness. Cf what we were saying about the Americans when we went in to replace them in Basra, brutally exposed as hubris by subsequent events
    Yes, there was a bit of arrogance in there.

    He also said that there comes a point where numbers absolutely matter, and the British Army is now tokenistic.

    I'm afraid I think we now have to raise defence spending to the point where can deploy at least one fully armed heavy warfighting division on the continent, permanently. I suspect that will require us to expand the British army by 15-20,000 men back up to about 95-100k strong, and probably an extra £12-16bn per year in defence spending.

    But I think we have to do it.
    But I'm afraid that this comes back yet again to the incapability of this government (and quite possibly any government that replaces it) to take unpopular decisions.

    Most of the public doesn't give a shit about defence. Much of the public has also been squeezed so hard by taxation, ridiculous housing costs, years of stagnant or negative wage growth and now steep inflation that it hasn't much left to give. So, in the end, a massive increase in defence spending can only be funded by soaking the elderly (through ditching automatic increases to the state pension, and extracting property wealth through large increases in IHT and/or the advent of land taxation,) or by taking an axe to core public service spending priorities.

    So it won't happen.
    We'll see. My perception is that public opinion is shifting, and the Government can shape it as well as reflect it.
    Even if that is true, the public desire to spend money on anything extends only as far as that money is extracted from someone who isn't them. The nanosecond any Government goes after the gigantic stock of wealth locked up in housing - which is the only way we're going to make serious progress on funding any of the mountain of priorities and disasters that we've somehow got to manage all at the same time - the violent tantrum from the grey vote will be so extreme that it will run away in fright.

    All that will end up happening in the end is that working age voters will be bled absolutely white and the whole lot will be sunk into inflating the state pension and desperately trying to clear the backlog of hip operations. The more I contemplate the situation, the more hopeless it looks.
    The gigantic stock of wealth locked up in housing and the freedom to use it will be worth Jack Shit if the West ends up becoming hostage to global autarky because it decided to be impotent and didn't stand up to be counted when it mattered.
    I'm hoping there will be a consensus that rearmament, at a minimum, is required. But I see no sign of this in statements from politicians.

    What do we do, as citizens in a democracy, to make this happen?
    This is an issue that has troubled me for years. People don't see the point. They won't, until something happens that scares the hell out of them.

    This is one level on which Putin is perhaps useful to us. Unlike China, he is an active provocateur. Shooting down passenger planes, carrying out extra judicial murders on our land, starting unprovoked wars and bombing civilian populations that look much like us. Also, he comes across as irrational and not someone who can be reliably pacified or appeased. The contrast with the far away threat of China is significant.

  • Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
    The US stopping USD transactions is probably a bigger impact than SWIFT, but SWIFT is symbolically important - much like overflying rights, which is why it’s a pity so far it’s only the UK, Poland, Czechia and Bulgaria have banned it. The message has got to get to ordinary Russians.
  • DougSeal said:

    Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
    The EU does, it’s based in Brussels, and the Hungarians are effectively vetoing action. The US the whole thing would collapse the global payments system. They’re only trying to kick Russia oit and that requires agreement.
    Werent there disagreements between the US and EU over Iranian SWIFT sanctions, and the banks ended up fearing the US bans more than whatever the EU said?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826

    @Nigelb


    It's based on data for voluntary forces. In the US it's less than 2% and in the UK under 0.5% at the moment.

    In the IDF fewer than 4 percent of women are in combat positions such as tank commanders, infantry, helicopter or fighter pilots and don't forget they have universal conscription too.

    Edit: this shouldn't surprise us. You need high levels of testosterone and aggression for close-quarters combat, and significant physical strength and endurance to deal with heavy weaponry and forced marches, so the numbers will always be heavily skewed by biological reality no matter how much we try to convince ourselves to the contrary with our weird present day social-political obsession with identity politics.

    it’s a moving target, as the disparity between the UK and US figures suggests, and the Israeli experience makes very clear:
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/1637001832-israel-military-a-record-year-for-women-in-combat-units

    My anecdotal experience of friends kids joining the forces is that things are changing here, too.

    I don’t want to get into a pissing match, but I think on this you’re on balance wrong. The numbers aren’t sufficiently skewed by biology to make much of a difference in a large number of roles - particularly when you’re talking about the very small percentage of the total population which makes up the military.
  • If Ukraine still exists in May, I think victory in the Eurovision Song Contest is nailed on. Any markets open?

    Good point.

    Even if occupied, Ukraine will still exist. Unless…
    BF has a market. Only 1.7 for Ukr
    You are looking at the semi-final market which has zero liquidity. Ukraine is 5 to win (4/1 in old money) in the winner market. Not sure why Betfair chose to default to the wrong place.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/special-bets/market/1.186353923
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    Scott_xP said:

    OllyT said:

    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time.

    Tory MPs agree with you

    There has unsurprisingly been a mood-shift in Westminster this week.
    "Whether the PM was truthful about the parties is obviously important, but [the Ukraine-Russia crisis] is really, really fucking important,” a former cabinet minister told @adampayne26.
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite

    The will still of course be massive fall-out if the Met decide to issue Boris Johnson a FPN over parties in the coming weeks, but many believe given the magnitude of the current crisis, the moment for a leadership challenge has passed... for now.

    Story: https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite
    The system is set up so that if Brady receives the requisite number of letters, he phones the MPs to check they still want to proceed, suspend or withdraw their letters. It won't get the numbers needed to proceed during the current crisis.

    Equally, I am told that the numbers will be there once the immediate crisis abates if the Met or Grey reports don't give the PM a clean bill of health.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    As Israel’s experience has shown, the proportion of women in combat roles can rise very quickly indeed once attitudes change.

    Israel have the most woke military in the world with an all female infantry battalion (117 Caracal) and you can have vegan boots if you want. Nobody would accuse them of a lack of competence or martial fervour.
    I'm slow today.

    I've just realised that with your pro-Corbyn, Putin-sympathising tendencies, and love for culture war, you were trying to draw me off the scent and provoke me into changing the subject.

    I fell right into your trap. More fool me.

    Anyway, back to Ukraine.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842

    *betting post 🐎

    As soon as I woke up I felt instantly forlorn. It’s supposed to be a fun day, sunny, racing, England Wales Rugby. But It don’t feel right to be happy and self indulgent with this ongoing crisis so unnecessary and sad.

    But I have picked out four horses for a lucky 15. I would caution though, don’t leap on them just because three of last weeks four won, I had nothing for weeks before that, and quite possibly nothing for weeks to come.

    Kempton - 1315 - Patroclus
    Specialises in the distance, first Chase win start of this month

    Kempton - 1350 - Moka De Vassy
    3 hurdles now in career, placed over 2m in last two,

    Kempton - 1500 - Galore Desassences
    Yet again I am attracted to the long odds for a horse with a history of placing, likes distance and won the last two.

    NEWCASTLE - 1515 - Eclair Surf
    Book spoilt by errors disguises the staying promise form good from last race too

    Good luck, whatever you are on! 🙋‍♀️

    Ah yes, the certainties of life roll on despite the darkening world picture.

    The certainty of a glorious Saturday morning, some exciting racing and the Stodge Saturday Patent - the Norwich City of bets, Rarely wins and each time it loses, all you get is a shrug of the shoulders.

    Anyway, it's Winter Derby day for those who like some proper racing instead of this jumping nonsense:

    1.30 Lingfield: TONE THE BARONE
    2.40 Lingfield: IMPERIAL SANDS
    3.10 Lingfield: MARKS BEAR

    Have a 1 point win patent on those three and appreciate the fact you can't buy a sunny day in February in the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611

    Scott_xP said:

    OllyT said:

    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time.

    Tory MPs agree with you

    There has unsurprisingly been a mood-shift in Westminster this week.
    "Whether the PM was truthful about the parties is obviously important, but [the Ukraine-Russia crisis] is really, really fucking important,” a former cabinet minister told @adampayne26.
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite

    The will still of course be massive fall-out if the Met decide to issue Boris Johnson a FPN over parties in the coming weeks, but many believe given the magnitude of the current crisis, the moment for a leadership challenge has passed... for now.

    Story: https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite
    The system is set up so that if Brady receives the requisite number of letters, he phones the MPs to check they still want to proceed, suspend or withdraw their letters. It won't get the numbers needed to proceed during the current crisis.

    Equally, I am told that the numbers will be there once the immediate crisis abates if the Met or Grey reports don't give the PM a clean bill of health.
    Only if the PM is fined by the Met or the Tories face massive losses in the local elections in May will the PM face a VONC now.

    Though if Sunak is also fined his leadership chances would be ended too and Hunt or Truss would likely become PM
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    Vitali Klitschko (ex-boxer, now mayor of Kyiv) apparently claiming that there are currently no Russian troops in the city. Make of that what you will.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    Given it's basically impossible to impose proper sanctions on Russia while NordStream1 continues to pump gas into Germany and cash to Putin, we might as well just go ahead with NS2.

    I propose giving the pipeline itself to Ukraine.

    The whole point of NordStream 2 is to bypass Ukraine.
    I know. I'm saying don't let it bypass Ukraine; make Ukraine a partner in it.
    It's a pipeline from Russia to Germany (largely) in the middle of the Baltic.

    image

    What exactly would you "give" to the Ukrainians? The control of the pumps?
    The profits.
    I'd call it the SchröderSchilling or the MuttiMoney.
    🙂 a welcome deposit from the The Smithsonian Institute.

    Thanks for your quick thinking. first time I’v smiled today

    Can I say The Smithsonian Institute and not get banned?
  • Doubleplusbad:

    ⚡️Russia banned the use of the following words: "invasion", "attack" and "war" when covering the war against Ukraine - official statement of the supervisory authority

    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497524118912221189
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I cannot understand why a conservative party leadership election taking upto 8 weeks at this time of war could be justified or indeed accepted by the voters

    When the PM is an incompetent buffoon, I cannot understand why you would want him in post for a second longer
    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time. This will have largely played out in a week or 2 and the key focus will have to be how to stop Putin going any further and Johnson needs to be got shot of right away because he won't bother putting in the hard work to achieve that objective.

    In truth the Conservative Party should never have allowed the Brexit issue to blind it into choosing an incompetent, weak and dishonest leader. However we are where we are and at the end of the day Johnson is only a buffoon and is not in the same evil and dangerous category as Trump.

    The Tories need to act sooner rather than later once this is over. We are stuck with Brexit now and If they cannot now see that he is not the right leader for a pandemic or an international crisis then they never will and any further disasters will be on their heads.
    If the Tories had not picked Boris in 2019, the Brexit Party would still have stood candidates in Tory seats, the Tories would not have got a majority, Brexit would still not have got done and Corbyn would still be Labour leader
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,923

    Dr. Foxy, equality isn't woke.

    Woke is when you travel in that direction, having a nation already achieved good things (such as racial/sexual equality enshrined in legislation) then keep going so far you start talking about reparations for slavery, for racial quotas in workplaces to discriminate against white people, when you stop considering Koreans to be an ethnic minority because they achieve too well in schooling and the workplace, when disagreement is not cause for debate but censure and censorship, when you think biological men competing in women's sports is a good thing and those who disagree are bigots.

    You tear down statues then complain the right is starting a culture war because they don't literally get on their knees to approve of your self-absorbed vandalism. When violent, fiery protests are described as 'mostly peaceful' by the media, which is then astonished people take it less seriously as a neutral report of the truth.

    Bravo!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ms. Heathener, being against woke bullshit only equates to being far right in the fantastical imagination of the far left who are so love in with the woke stuff to start with.

    It's just a regurgitation of "Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler".

    It's more the staggering detachment from reality of the likes of SLeon to be thinking that gender-neutral toilets and the like should be high up the list of existential threats to the world
    One interesting thing, and I am sure Putin disapproves, is that Ukraine is becoming more Woke. Sure, older attitudes persist, but culture change takes time.

    This is Kyiv Pride before the pandemic:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48738251

    One of the Ukranian gold medalists at the Olympics is black, and now also an MP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhan_Beleniuk

    Women are 10% of Ukranian military, and serve in all roles, including combat, with equal rights.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2022/0223/We-want-to-keep-Ukraine-free.-Why-women-rise-in-Ukraine-army

    Indeed one of their recent pilot casualties was this young woman:

    https://twitter.com/diwanshu_tomar/status/1497354469201571842?t=E5GN3rZ3S-_C3j5ks-fDkg&s=19

    Being Woke doesn't seem to be impairing their will to fight. Indeed it seems to be a powerful motivating factor. A freedom worth fighting for.
    Maybe I am naive but I do not see any of that as being woke but something to be welcomed
    We should probably stop using the word Woke. It makes it difficult to distinguish good social change from bad social change, and creates artificial divisions that frustrate meaningful debate and objective analysis. Some things that may be described as 'woke' are good, others are bad, some are neutral. It should be possible to value living in a free and equal society without regarding yourself as Woke.
    I agree but it's generally only being used a term of insult by those on the right. None of the many people I know with left of centre views goes around proclaiming themselves to be 'Woke'.
    .
    People can be a bit disingenuous about that, sometimes noting that woke is, now at least, primarily used pejoratively from the right, and sometimes going 'Well what is wrong with being awake to these issues' etc and thus buying into its original use.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033

    Fascinating piece by Pip - thank you!

    I liked it too. For 2 reasons. Number 1, interesting and maybe a betting opp in due course. Number 2, US state switches to a system that makes life harder for a Trumper to get elected, this is a good news story. Not too many of them around atm.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    Farooq said:

    Chris said:

    So we are on the fourth day of the liberation of Ukraine, a country with a population two thirds that of the UK, and so far apparently the Russians have captured only one city, about the size of Canterbury?

    about the size of Salisbury, you mean..
    I was going by its Wikipedia page, which says 150,768.

    But I should have added that the UK has expressed scepticism even about that claim. But even if it's true, that would mean the Russians are in control of only a tiny percentage of urban Ukraine. Even when they get to the stage of being able to drive tanks around all the main roads of Kiev, that's nothing like being in control of a country of 44 million people.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    stodge said:

    *betting post 🐎

    As soon as I woke up I felt instantly forlorn. It’s supposed to be a fun day, sunny, racing, England Wales Rugby. But It don’t feel right to be happy and self indulgent with this ongoing crisis so unnecessary and sad.

    But I have picked out four horses for a lucky 15. I would caution though, don’t leap on them just because three of last weeks four won, I had nothing for weeks before that, and quite possibly nothing for weeks to come.

    Kempton - 1315 - Patroclus
    Specialises in the distance, first Chase win start of this month

    Kempton - 1350 - Moka De Vassy
    3 hurdles now in career, placed over 2m in last two,

    Kempton - 1500 - Galore Desassences
    Yet again I am attracted to the long odds for a horse with a history of placing, likes distance and won the last two.

    NEWCASTLE - 1515 - Eclair Surf
    Book spoilt by errors disguises the staying promise form good from last race too

    Good luck, whatever you are on! 🙋‍♀️

    Ah yes, the certainties of life roll on despite the darkening world picture.

    The certainty of a glorious Saturday morning, some exciting racing and the Stodge Saturday Patent - the Norwich City of bets, Rarely wins and each time it loses, all you get is a shrug of the shoulders.

    Anyway, it's Winter Derby day for those who like some proper racing instead of this jumping nonsense:

    1.30 Lingfield: TONE THE BARONE
    2.40 Lingfield: IMPERIAL SANDS
    3.10 Lingfield: MARKS BEAR

    Have a 1 point win patent on those three and appreciate the fact you can't buy a sunny day in February in the UK.
    Nice post!

    I’m working out you are a flat, short, (not to be too personal) Lingfield specialist.

    Well. If some of them won occasionally. 🤣
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252

    Doubleplusbad:

    ⚡️Russia banned the use of the following words: "invasion", "attack" and "war" when covering the war against Ukraine - official statement of the supervisory authority

    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497524118912221189

    And they still haven't banned Dobby the House-Elf?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A fascinating reminder of the psychology of our prime minister by ⁦@RSylvesterTimes⁩. “I’ve never met anyone who believes their own lies so much,” one interviewee says. Inside the mind of Boris Johnson — by his friends and enemies

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7964b540-933c-11ec-bcf4-9dde9b8243da?shareToken=40d53ed15ff73615c1eab46443ee4c89

    [he] can be lazy, manipulative, dishonest and ruthless. Many of those who have worked most closely with the prime minister are among his staunchest critics. Dominic Cummings, his former senior strategist, is only the most high-profile and dangerous example. Another former No 10 aide says, “David Cameron and Tony Blair still have a team of advisers who remain loyal to them. People who have worked for Boris just have horror stories about how appallingly they were treated.” Sir Max Hastings, who was Johnson’s editor at The Daily Telegraph, puts it even more bluntly: “The only people who like Boris Johnson are those who don’t know him.”

    MPs who are watching the polls and recent by-election results are starting to wonder whether the prime minister is becoming a liability rather than an asset. With Shakespearean symmetry, the strengths that got Johnson to the very top have become the weaknesses that may drive him from power.

    The constitutional historian Lord Hennessy...suggests the traditional reliance on decency has been suspended under Johnson, he hopes temporarily. “He’s not a man driven by public service; he is the most dramatic example we have ever had of a vanity prime minister. His great project is himself, which is very dangerous for a country... No prime minister in the 100 years since Lloyd George has had such a disregard for convention and norms of behaviour in their personal and political life. But Lloyd George was a genius and Johnson is not.”

    A former Downing Street aide believes that Johnson has been fatally wounded by his own character flaws. “He believes the worst of everybody, then behaves in such a way to ensure that that will happen. He betrays people and then they do turn on him. It’s a self-fulfilling self-destructive pattern. Behind this persona of the jolly clown, Boris is a deeply scarred, deeply cynical individual.”
    That's quite a devastating piece. Just to be contrarian, I'll offer one anecdote in his favour. When he was campaigning for Brexit, he wanted to do a piece on a ban on live exports of animals which he (correctly) said would only be possible outside the EU. He rang me at home to ask me (as I work for Compassion in World Farming) for the exact details of the issue, for a newspaper column. During the call, I said I'd initially thought it was a hoax, as I'd not expected a private call from him - he laughed unpretentiously and said yes, he could see that, he'd have thought the same. No idea how he got my number.

    I told him what he wanted to know, and a few days later the article appeared, correct in every detail but nonetheless written with his trademark panache. He acknowledged my comments in the article fairly. Overall I felt the encounter reflected well on him - he wanted to get the details right, and was taking the trouble to make sure. (A footnote is that although the ban has now been promised and the Bill introduced, there are rumours that it's being successfully blocked by opposition from Mr Rees-Mogg and other Cabinet ministers. If that proves to be the case, many of us will not be amused.)

    By contrast, when we served on a Bill committee together, he could barely be bothered to turn up a lot of the time, and his contribution to the discussion was pretty much zero. So my overall impression - politics, Brexit and partygate aside - is that he's got a good brain and uses it properly when he chooses to apply it.
    I think that's fairly fair. IMO Johnson is not as bad as his worst critics make out, but he is not good. Most damning IMO is that he has the raw material to be a good PM. His character flaws let him down, time after time.

    As to be fair, most of ours would if we were made PM.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,867
    edited February 2022
    It's a bit awkward for Labour attacking Tories over Russian links, when this was the S Times headline less than a fortnight ago. (whoops.. was a year and a fortnight ago.. doh!)

    "Starmer calls in Mandelson to inject a dose of New Labour's 'winning mentality'"

    Mandy was on the board of a Russian company ffs. He's practically an oligarch himself.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,386
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I cannot understand why a conservative party leadership election taking upto 8 weeks at this time of war could be justified or indeed accepted by the voters

    When the PM is an incompetent buffoon, I cannot understand why you would want him in post for a second longer
    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time. This will have largely played out in a week or 2 and the key focus will have to be how to stop Putin going any further and Johnson needs to be got shot of right away because he won't bother putting in the hard work to achieve that objective.

    In truth the Conservative Party should never have allowed the Brexit issue to blind it into choosing an incompetent, weak and dishonest leader. However we are where we are and at the end of the day Johnson is only a buffoon and is not in the same evil and dangerous category as Trump.

    The Tories need to act sooner rather than later once this is over. We are stuck with Brexit now and If they cannot now see that he is not the right leader for a pandemic or an international crisis then they never will and any further disasters will be on their heads.
    If the Tories had not picked Boris in 2019, the Brexit Party would still have stood candidates in Tory seats, the Tories would not have got a majority, Brexit would still not have got done and Corbyn would still be Labour leader
    Covid would still have happened, though, and someone would have had to stand up and lead the management of it.
    And almost certainly wouldn't have wasted the money and time that Johnson did.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    It's a bit awkward for Labour attacking Tories over Russian links, when this was the S Times headline less than a fortnight ago.

    "Starmer calls in Mandelson to inject a dose of New Labour's 'winning mentality'"

    Mandy was on the board of a Russian company ffs. He's practically an oligarch himself.

    An interesting question is how Mandelson came into his money.
  • Soldiers say they are out of gas. Driver offers to tow them back to russia. Everyone laughs. Russian soldiers ask for news on how they are doing in war. Driver tell them that Ukraine is winning, russians are surrendering and impliest that they should too.

    https://twitter.com/WilmerDAB/status/1497489855781212160
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    As Israel’s experience has shown, the proportion of women in combat roles can rise very quickly indeed once attitudes change.

    Israel have the most woke military in the world with an all female infantry battalion (117 Caracal) and you can have vegan boots if you want. Nobody would accuse them of a lack of competence or martial fervour.
    Go girls! Best deployed to artic warfare. There some bloke from the Olympics still whining his One eyed yogurt slinger hasn’t warmed up yet!!!
  • Nigelb said:

    @Nigelb


    It's based on data for voluntary forces. In the US it's less than 2% and in the UK under 0.5% at the moment.

    In the IDF fewer than 4 percent of women are in combat positions such as tank commanders, infantry, helicopter or fighter pilots and don't forget they have universal conscription too.

    Edit: this shouldn't surprise us. You need high levels of testosterone and aggression for close-quarters combat, and significant physical strength and endurance to deal with heavy weaponry and forced marches, so the numbers will always be heavily skewed by biological reality no matter how much we try to convince ourselves to the contrary with our weird present day social-political obsession with identity politics.

    it’s a moving target, as the disparity between the UK and US figures suggests, and the Israeli experience makes very clear:
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/1637001832-israel-military-a-record-year-for-women-in-combat-units

    My anecdotal experience of friends kids joining the forces is that things are changing here, too.

    I don’t want to get into a pissing match, but I think on this you’re on balance wrong. The numbers aren’t sufficiently skewed by biology to make much of a difference in a large number of roles - particularly when you’re talking about the very small percentage of the total population which makes up the military.
    I'm not wrong in the slightest. My numbers are factually accurate and absolutely verifiable - look up US numbers, UK numbers or Israel here:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israel_Defense_Forces#:~:text=As of 2011, 88% of,helicopter or fighter pilots, etc.

    "As of 2011, 88% of all roles in the IDF were open to female candidates, while women could actually be found in 69% of all positions.[8][9]

    In 2014, the IDF said that fewer than 4 percent of women are in combat positions such as light infantry, helicopter or fighter pilots, etc. Rather, they are concentrated in "combat-support".[10]"

    "The most notable combat option for women is the Caracal Battalion, which is a light infantry force that is made up of 70 percent female soldiers.[3] The unit undergoes combat infantry training."

    If you conscript both men and women, as Israel does, you may well have sufficient numbers to be able to form a mixed combat battalion but numbers will otherwise remain small.

    There's a difference between opening up all roles to either men or women and expecting this to result in 50:50 splits in all matters, everywhere, otherwise assuming this must be discrimination.

    Down that path madness lies.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,576
    pigeon said:

    Vitali Klitschko (ex-boxer, now mayor of Kyiv) apparently claiming that there are currently no Russian troops in the city. Make of that what you will.

    I can believe that there are no significant concentrations of troops in the city of the bulk are 30km from the centre, as per MOD briefing.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Chris said:

    Farooq said:

    Chris said:

    So we are on the fourth day of the liberation of Ukraine, a country with a population two thirds that of the UK, and so far apparently the Russians have captured only one city, about the size of Canterbury?

    about the size of Salisbury, you mean..
    I was going by its Wikipedia page, which says 150,768.

    But I should have added that the UK has expressed scepticism even about that claim. But even if it's true, that would mean the Russians are in control of only a tiny percentage of urban Ukraine. Even when they get to the stage of being able to drive tanks around all the main roads of Kiev, that's nothing like being in control of a country of 44 million people.
    Canterbury proper only has a population of about 55k. The City of Canterbury local authority district, which includes Whitstable, Herne Bay, and the surrounding villages, is about 150k.

    I’m here for your Kent facts all day folks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    ydoethur said:

    Doubleplusbad:

    ⚡️Russia banned the use of the following words: "invasion", "attack" and "war" when covering the war against Ukraine - official statement of the supervisory authority

    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497524118912221189

    And they still haven't banned Dobby the House-Elf?
    Well, they did try....

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2003/jan/30/harrypotter.news
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A fascinating reminder of the psychology of our prime minister by ⁦@RSylvesterTimes⁩. “I’ve never met anyone who believes their own lies so much,” one interviewee says. Inside the mind of Boris Johnson — by his friends and enemies

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7964b540-933c-11ec-bcf4-9dde9b8243da?shareToken=40d53ed15ff73615c1eab46443ee4c89

    [he] can be lazy, manipulative, dishonest and ruthless. Many of those who have worked most closely with the prime minister are among his staunchest critics. Dominic Cummings, his former senior strategist, is only the most high-profile and dangerous example. Another former No 10 aide says, “David Cameron and Tony Blair still have a team of advisers who remain loyal to them. People who have worked for Boris just have horror stories about how appallingly they were treated.” Sir Max Hastings, who was Johnson’s editor at The Daily Telegraph, puts it even more bluntly: “The only people who like Boris Johnson are those who don’t know him.”

    MPs who are watching the polls and recent by-election results are starting to wonder whether the prime minister is becoming a liability rather than an asset. With Shakespearean symmetry, the strengths that got Johnson to the very top have become the weaknesses that may drive him from power.

    The constitutional historian Lord Hennessy...suggests the traditional reliance on decency has been suspended under Johnson, he hopes temporarily. “He’s not a man driven by public service; he is the most dramatic example we have ever had of a vanity prime minister. His great project is himself, which is very dangerous for a country... No prime minister in the 100 years since Lloyd George has had such a disregard for convention and norms of behaviour in their personal and political life. But Lloyd George was a genius and Johnson is not.”

    A former Downing Street aide believes that Johnson has been fatally wounded by his own character flaws. “He believes the worst of everybody, then behaves in such a way to ensure that that will happen. He betrays people and then they do turn on him. It’s a self-fulfilling self-destructive pattern. Behind this persona of the jolly clown, Boris is a deeply scarred, deeply cynical individual.”
    That's quite a devastating piece. Just to be contrarian, I'll offer one anecdote in his favour. When he was campaigning for Brexit, he wanted to do a piece on a ban on live exports of animals which he (correctly) said would only be possible outside the EU. He rang me at home to ask me (as I work for Compassion in World Farming) for the exact details of the issue, for a newspaper column. During the call, I said I'd initially thought it was a hoax, as I'd not expected a private call from him - he laughed unpretentiously and said yes, he could see that, he'd have thought the same. No idea how he got my number.

    I told him what he wanted to know, and a few days later the article appeared, correct in every detail but nonetheless written with his trademark panache. He acknowledged my comments in the article fairly. Overall I felt the encounter reflected well on him - he wanted to get the details right, and was taking the trouble to make sure. (A footnote is that although the ban has now been promised and the Bill introduced, there are rumours that it's being successfully blocked by opposition from Mr Rees-Mogg and other Cabinet ministers. If that proves to be the case, many of us will not be amused.)

    By contrast, when we served on a Bill committee together, he could barely be bothered to turn up a lot of the time, and his contribution to the discussion was pretty much zero. So my overall impression - politics, Brexit and partygate aside - is that he's got a good brain and uses it properly when he chooses to apply it.
    Sounds to me like he should have stuck to journalism.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    HYUFD said:


    If the Tories had not picked Boris in 2019, the Brexit Party would still have stood candidates in Tory seats, the Tories would not have got a majority, Brexit would still not have got done and Corbyn would still be Labour leader

    One of these days I will have to do a counterfactual history over on alternatehistory.com about that.

    How would this have worked? Would Conservative MPs have defected to the Brexit Party in the summer of 2019 assuming May doesn't quit? How many - 30, 40, 50? Would others have gone to Change UK?

    May loses her majority but would there be enough votes for a Parliamentary No Confidence vote? Even if there were, that wouldn't mean confidence in an alternative Corbyn-led Labour Government unless he does a deal with the SNP to offer a second independence referendum in return for their support....

    Let's say he doesn't - it's a complete deadlock - no one can obtain a majority in the Commons so the only option is an election.

    Up to the point Boris Johnson became Prime Minister and Conservative leader in mid July, the four parties (Conservative, Labour, Brexit and LD) were all polling between 20-25%. We aren't used to a 4-party system and trying to imagine the result of such an election isn't easy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462

    Soldiers say they are out of gas. Driver offers to tow them back to russia. Everyone laughs. Russian soldiers ask for news on how they are doing in war. Driver tell them that Ukraine is winning, russians are surrendering and impliest that they should too.

    https://twitter.com/WilmerDAB/status/1497489855781212160

    "Everyone laughs."

    Putin is so screwed.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ms. Heathener, being against woke bullshit only equates to being far right in the fantastical imagination of the far left who are so love in with the woke stuff to start with.

    It's just a regurgitation of "Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler".

    It's more the staggering detachment from reality of the likes of SLeon to be thinking that gender-neutral toilets and the like should be high up the list of existential threats to the world
    One interesting thing, and I am sure Putin disapproves, is that Ukraine is becoming more Woke. Sure, older attitudes persist, but culture change takes time.

    This is Kyiv Pride before the pandemic:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48738251

    One of the Ukranian gold medalists at the Olympics is black, and now also an MP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhan_Beleniuk

    Women are 10% of Ukranian military, and serve in all roles, including combat, with equal rights.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2022/0223/We-want-to-keep-Ukraine-free.-Why-women-rise-in-Ukraine-army

    Indeed one of their recent pilot casualties was this young woman:

    https://twitter.com/diwanshu_tomar/status/1497354469201571842?t=E5GN3rZ3S-_C3j5ks-fDkg&s=19

    Being Woke doesn't seem to be impairing their will to fight. Indeed it seems to be a powerful motivating factor. A freedom worth fighting for.
    Maybe I am naive but I do not see any of that as being woke but something to be welcomed
    We should probably stop using the word Woke. It makes it difficult to distinguish good social change from bad social change, and creates artificial divisions that frustrate meaningful debate and objective analysis. Some things that may be described as 'woke' are good, others are bad, some are neutral. It should be possible to value living in a free and equal society without regarding yourself as Woke.
    I agree but it's generally only being used a term of insult by those on the right. None of the many people I know with left of centre views goes around proclaiming themselves to be 'Woke'.

    It replaced 'political correctness' when that term lost its zing because most people adopted attitudes respecting the rights of others. 'Political correctness' and 'Woke' are really simply 'informed politeness' in most instances.
    Recently it has been used a lot more by the Right in that way, but it started on the Left, and the start wasn't great. You'd have people telling their story about what "awoke" them to the reality of injustice, with the explicit message that they were now of the Woke (i.e. the Elect) who could moralise at those who had not experienced such an epiphany.

    It was tedious bollocks on the Left even before the Right picked up on it as a stick to beat them with.
    There's clearly worry the same thing is happening with Critical Race Theory, as John Oliver's piece on it last week was very much that while it is being inaccurately attacked by people with poor motivation and he is against that, that the attacks have been working not least because of some poor examples of it being employed.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,576

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ms. Heathener, being against woke bullshit only equates to being far right in the fantastical imagination of the far left who are so love in with the woke stuff to start with.

    It's just a regurgitation of "Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler".

    It's more the staggering detachment from reality of the likes of SLeon to be thinking that gender-neutral toilets and the like should be high up the list of existential threats to the world
    One interesting thing, and I am sure Putin disapproves, is that Ukraine is becoming more Woke. Sure, older attitudes persist, but culture change takes time.

    This is Kyiv Pride before the pandemic:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48738251

    One of the Ukranian gold medalists at the Olympics is black, and now also an MP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhan_Beleniuk

    Women are 10% of Ukranian military, and serve in all roles, including combat, with equal rights.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2022/0223/We-want-to-keep-Ukraine-free.-Why-women-rise-in-Ukraine-army

    Indeed one of their recent pilot casualties was this young woman:

    https://twitter.com/diwanshu_tomar/status/1497354469201571842?t=E5GN3rZ3S-_C3j5ks-fDkg&s=19

    Being Woke doesn't seem to be impairing their will to fight. Indeed it seems to be a powerful motivating factor. A freedom worth fighting for.
    Maybe I am naive but I do not see any of that as being woke but something to be welcomed
    We should probably stop using the word Woke. It makes it difficult to distinguish good social change from bad social change, and creates artificial divisions that frustrate meaningful debate and objective analysis. Some things that may be described as 'woke' are good, others are bad, some are neutral. It should be possible to value living in a free and equal society without regarding yourself as Woke.
    I agree but it's generally only being used a term of insult by those on the right. None of the many people I know with left of centre views goes around proclaiming themselves to be 'Woke'.

    It replaced 'political correctness' when that term lost its zing because most people adopted attitudes respecting the rights of others. 'Political correctness' and 'Woke' are really simply 'informed politeness' in most instances.
    Recently it has been used a lot more by the Right in that way, but it started on the Left, and the start wasn't great. You'd have people telling their story about what "awoke" them to the reality of injustice, with the explicit message that they were now of the Woke (i.e. the Elect) who could moralise at those who had not experienced such an epiphany.

    It was tedious bollocks on the Left even before the Right picked up on it as a stick to beat them with.
    It's almost like both wings have more in common with each other, aggressively defining themselves in opposition, while the vast majority get on with trying to be decent people.

    Meanwhile the odd idea from either end turns out not to be horrendous and gets absorbed into the mainstream.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    DougSeal said:

    Chris said:

    Farooq said:

    Chris said:

    So we are on the fourth day of the liberation of Ukraine, a country with a population two thirds that of the UK, and so far apparently the Russians have captured only one city, about the size of Canterbury?

    about the size of Salisbury, you mean..
    I was going by its Wikipedia page, which says 150,768.

    But I should have added that the UK has expressed scepticism even about that claim. But even if it's true, that would mean the Russians are in control of only a tiny percentage of urban Ukraine. Even when they get to the stage of being able to drive tanks around all the main roads of Kiev, that's nothing like being in control of a country of 44 million people.
    Canterbury proper only has a population of about 55k. The City of Canterbury local authority district, which includes Whitstable, Herne Bay, and the surrounding villages, is about 150k.
    Right. So as I said in the first place, about the size of Canterbury (city of).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    edited February 2022

    DougSeal said:

    Hungary is currently the only EU Member State against banning Russia from SWIFT. #StopRussia #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/status/1497520313013309447

    Does Hungary have a say in SWIFT? If the US makes it illegal in the US is that not sufficient de facto?
    The EU does, it’s based in Brussels, and the Hungarians are effectively vetoing action. The US the whole thing would collapse the global payments system. They’re only trying to kick Russia oit and that requires agreement.
    Werent there disagreements between the US and EU over Iranian SWIFT sanctions, and the banks ended up fearing the US bans more than whatever the EU said?
    Yes - because of the way that finance works, if you do business with a US sanctioned entity you are in a world of shit if you do anything that goes through the American financial system. And since most vaguely large banks have a US arm....

    EDIT: So the US could force most in the SWIFT network to *not* deal with Russia. But that would be a pretty hard core move from the US.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989
    DougSeal said:

    Chris said:

    Farooq said:

    Chris said:

    So we are on the fourth day of the liberation of Ukraine, a country with a population two thirds that of the UK, and so far apparently the Russians have captured only one city, about the size of Canterbury?

    about the size of Salisbury, you mean..
    I was going by its Wikipedia page, which says 150,768.

    But I should have added that the UK has expressed scepticism even about that claim. But even if it's true, that would mean the Russians are in control of only a tiny percentage of urban Ukraine. Even when they get to the stage of being able to drive tanks around all the main roads of Kiev, that's nothing like being in control of a country of 44 million people.
    Canterbury proper only has a population of about 55k. The City of Canterbury local authority district, which includes Whitstable, Herne Bay, and the surrounding villages, is about 150k.

    I’m here for your Kent facts all day folks.
    You can take a break around 1300-1330.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,146

    It's a bit awkward for Labour attacking Tories over Russian links, when this was the S Times headline less than a fortnight ago.

    "Starmer calls in Mandelson to inject a dose of New Labour's 'winning mentality'"

    Mandy was on the board of a Russian company ffs. He's practically an oligarch himself.

    An interesting question is how Mandelson came into his money.
    Geoffrey Robinson, wasn’t it?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,576
    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ms. Heathener, being against woke bullshit only equates to being far right in the fantastical imagination of the far left who are so love in with the woke stuff to start with.

    It's just a regurgitation of "Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler".

    It's more the staggering detachment from reality of the likes of SLeon to be thinking that gender-neutral toilets and the like should be high up the list of existential threats to the world
    One interesting thing, and I am sure Putin disapproves, is that Ukraine is becoming more Woke. Sure, older attitudes persist, but culture change takes time.

    This is Kyiv Pride before the pandemic:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48738251

    One of the Ukranian gold medalists at the Olympics is black, and now also an MP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhan_Beleniuk

    Women are 10% of Ukranian military, and serve in all roles, including combat, with equal rights.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2022/0223/We-want-to-keep-Ukraine-free.-Why-women-rise-in-Ukraine-army

    Indeed one of their recent pilot casualties was this young woman:

    https://twitter.com/diwanshu_tomar/status/1497354469201571842?t=E5GN3rZ3S-_C3j5ks-fDkg&s=19

    Being Woke doesn't seem to be impairing their will to fight. Indeed it seems to be a powerful motivating factor. A freedom worth fighting for.
    Maybe I am naive but I do not see any of that as being woke but something to be welcomed
    We should probably stop using the word Woke. It makes it difficult to distinguish good social change from bad social change, and creates artificial divisions that frustrate meaningful debate and objective analysis. Some things that may be described as 'woke' are good, others are bad, some are neutral. It should be possible to value living in a free and equal society without regarding yourself as Woke.
    I agree but it's generally only being used a term of insult by those on the right. None of the many people I know with left of centre views goes around proclaiming themselves to be 'Woke'.

    It replaced 'political correctness' when that term lost its zing because most people adopted attitudes respecting the rights of others. 'Political correctness' and 'Woke' are really simply 'informed politeness' in most instances.
    Recently it has been used a lot more by the Right in that way, but it started on the Left, and the start wasn't great. You'd have people telling their story about what "awoke" them to the reality of injustice, with the explicit message that they were now of the Woke (i.e. the Elect) who could moralise at those who had not experienced such an epiphany.

    It was tedious bollocks on the Left even before the Right picked up on it as a stick to beat them with.
    It's almost like both wings have more in common with each other, aggressively defining themselves in opposition, while the vast majority get on with trying to be decent people.

    Meanwhile the odd idea from either end turns out not to be horrendous and gets absorbed into the mainstream.
    (The media prefer the wings as they generate more clicks, and tend to portray these extremes as more mainstream, which makes things worse.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,154
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Multiple videos on social media of Russian military out of fuel, food and stuck on highways https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1497485623225200640/video/1

    It's rather odd. Russia has lots of fuel, and none of the vehicles have travelled that far. It may be mechanical faults rather than fuel. Its easy to have large headline numbers of fighting vehicles, but keeping them in fighting order is a more complex and expensive task.
    I watched that video and it appears simply to show that the tanks are stopped. Maybe just waiting for orders?
    Aren’t they securing the bridge? Infantry at one end and a tank at the other?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740

    Soldiers say they are out of gas. Driver offers to tow them back to russia. Everyone laughs. Russian soldiers ask for news on how they are doing in war. Driver tell them that Ukraine is winning, russians are surrendering and impliest that they should too.

    https://twitter.com/WilmerDAB/status/1497489855781212160

    "Everyone laughs."

    Putin is so screwed.....
    I think plans to invade Scandinavia will have been put on hold.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    Thinking of positives for important positive thinking. I’ve never known the world so mad and United at one thing before like this. So I don’t feel alone at all, with all world feeling same. From Russian vodka being taken off shelves just about everywhere, Russian tennis player signing no to war on camera. China abstaining. Kazakhstan rejecting Russian pleas for help. Russia kicked off SWIFT - simple, tell the Hun the votes 1245 and vote at noon. Put Vaseline on the rooms outside door handles for good measure.

    It’s a Putin meltdown. He has taken his country to somewhere it doesn’t have a single friend. Even in that country it doesn’t look like he has much friends. And why should he? There’s actually no rational sense to it. Just unhinged evilness. I asked God to make it stop, and put things good between everyone. I can’t ask for something bad to happen to Putin, but I have it in my mind he realised what a terrible mess he’s made and can’t live with it

    PS enjoyed header by Pip Moss again. The coastline in picture looks like it was designed by Slartibartfast.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462

    It's a bit awkward for Labour attacking Tories over Russian links, when this was the S Times headline less than a fortnight ago. (whoops.. was a year and a fortnight ago.. doh!)

    "Starmer calls in Mandelson to inject a dose of New Labour's 'winning mentality'"

    Mandy was on the board of a Russian company ffs. He's practically an oligarch himself.

    If everyone who has been entertained on an oligarch's yacht was banned from office, we'd probably be down to Prime Minister Iain Duncan Smith.....
  • Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




  • DougSeal said:

    Chris said:

    Farooq said:

    Chris said:

    So we are on the fourth day of the liberation of Ukraine, a country with a population two thirds that of the UK, and so far apparently the Russians have captured only one city, about the size of Canterbury?

    about the size of Salisbury, you mean..
    I was going by its Wikipedia page, which says 150,768.

    But I should have added that the UK has expressed scepticism even about that claim. But even if it's true, that would mean the Russians are in control of only a tiny percentage of urban Ukraine. Even when they get to the stage of being able to drive tanks around all the main roads of Kiev, that's nothing like being in control of a country of 44 million people.
    Canterbury proper only has a population of about 55k. The City of Canterbury local authority district, which includes Whitstable, Herne Bay, and the surrounding villages, is about 150k.

    I’m here for your Kent facts all day folks.
    It's a lovely city. I had a beautiful weekend there once with the children, we hired bikes and cycled the Crab and Winkle way to Whitstable and back, visited the excellent town museum as well as the kitsch Canterbury Tales Experience and the magnificent cathedral. The sun shone, and it was brilliant.
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A fascinating reminder of the psychology of our prime minister by ⁦@RSylvesterTimes⁩. “I’ve never met anyone who believes their own lies so much,” one interviewee says. Inside the mind of Boris Johnson — by his friends and enemies

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7964b540-933c-11ec-bcf4-9dde9b8243da?shareToken=40d53ed15ff73615c1eab46443ee4c89

    [he] can be lazy, manipulative, dishonest and ruthless. Many of those who have worked most closely with the prime minister are among his staunchest critics. Dominic Cummings, his former senior strategist, is only the most high-profile and dangerous example. Another former No 10 aide says, “David Cameron and Tony Blair still have a team of advisers who remain loyal to them. People who have worked for Boris just have horror stories about how appallingly they were treated.” Sir Max Hastings, who was Johnson’s editor at The Daily Telegraph, puts it even more bluntly: “The only people who like Boris Johnson are those who don’t know him.”

    MPs who are watching the polls and recent by-election results are starting to wonder whether the prime minister is becoming a liability rather than an asset. With Shakespearean symmetry, the strengths that got Johnson to the very top have become the weaknesses that may drive him from power.

    The constitutional historian Lord Hennessy...suggests the traditional reliance on decency has been suspended under Johnson, he hopes temporarily. “He’s not a man driven by public service; he is the most dramatic example we have ever had of a vanity prime minister. His great project is himself, which is very dangerous for a country... No prime minister in the 100 years since Lloyd George has had such a disregard for convention and norms of behaviour in their personal and political life. But Lloyd George was a genius and Johnson is not.”

    A former Downing Street aide believes that Johnson has been fatally wounded by his own character flaws. “He believes the worst of everybody, then behaves in such a way to ensure that that will happen. He betrays people and then they do turn on him. It’s a self-fulfilling self-destructive pattern. Behind this persona of the jolly clown, Boris is a deeply scarred, deeply cynical individual.”
    That's quite a devastating piece. Just to be contrarian, I'll offer one anecdote in his favour. When he was campaigning for Brexit, he wanted to do a piece on a ban on live exports of animals which he (correctly) said would only be possible outside the EU. He rang me at home to ask me (as I work for Compassion in World Farming) for the exact details of the issue, for a newspaper column. During the call, I said I'd initially thought it was a hoax, as I'd not expected a private call from him - he laughed unpretentiously and said yes, he could see that, he'd have thought the same. No idea how he got my number.

    I told him what he wanted to know, and a few days later the article appeared, correct in every detail but nonetheless written with his trademark panache. He acknowledged my comments in the article fairly. Overall I felt the encounter reflected well on him - he wanted to get the details right, and was taking the trouble to make sure. (A footnote is that although the ban has now been promised and the Bill introduced, there are rumours that it's being successfully blocked by opposition from Mr Rees-Mogg and other Cabinet ministers. If that proves to be the case, many of us will not be amused.)

    By contrast, when we served on a Bill committee together, he could barely be bothered to turn up a lot of the time, and his contribution to the discussion was pretty much zero. So my overall impression - politics, Brexit and partygate aside - is that he's got a good brain and uses it properly when he chooses to apply it.
    I think that's fairly fair. IMO Johnson is not as bad as his worst critics make out, but he is not good. Most damning IMO is that he has the raw material to be a good PM. His character flaws let him down, time after time.

    As to be fair, most of ours would if we were made PM.
    When all this is over- really over- there's an interesting "What if" alternate history to be written.

    What if Alexander Johnson had tried to do public life with all his talents but without the character flaws?

    Doubt he would have been PM (Dave or May would have got in his way), but EU President?
  • Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    Putin's pals in the West are a disgrace. I don't know about Spikedtator, Spectraitor might be more appropriate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    Where automatic contrarianism becomes silliness.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A fascinating reminder of the psychology of our prime minister by ⁦@RSylvesterTimes⁩. “I’ve never met anyone who believes their own lies so much,” one interviewee says. Inside the mind of Boris Johnson — by his friends and enemies

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7964b540-933c-11ec-bcf4-9dde9b8243da?shareToken=40d53ed15ff73615c1eab46443ee4c89

    [he] can be lazy, manipulative, dishonest and ruthless. Many of those who have worked most closely with the prime minister are among his staunchest critics. Dominic Cummings, his former senior strategist, is only the most high-profile and dangerous example. Another former No 10 aide says, “David Cameron and Tony Blair still have a team of advisers who remain loyal to them. People who have worked for Boris just have horror stories about how appallingly they were treated.” Sir Max Hastings, who was Johnson’s editor at The Daily Telegraph, puts it even more bluntly: “The only people who like Boris Johnson are those who don’t know him.”

    MPs who are watching the polls and recent by-election results are starting to wonder whether the prime minister is becoming a liability rather than an asset. With Shakespearean symmetry, the strengths that got Johnson to the very top have become the weaknesses that may drive him from power.

    The constitutional historian Lord Hennessy...suggests the traditional reliance on decency has been suspended under Johnson, he hopes temporarily. “He’s not a man driven by public service; he is the most dramatic example we have ever had of a vanity prime minister. His great project is himself, which is very dangerous for a country... No prime minister in the 100 years since Lloyd George has had such a disregard for convention and norms of behaviour in their personal and political life. But Lloyd George was a genius and Johnson is not.”

    A former Downing Street aide believes that Johnson has been fatally wounded by his own character flaws. “He believes the worst of everybody, then behaves in such a way to ensure that that will happen. He betrays people and then they do turn on him. It’s a self-fulfilling self-destructive pattern. Behind this persona of the jolly clown, Boris is a deeply scarred, deeply cynical individual.”
    That's quite a devastating piece. Just to be contrarian, I'll offer one anecdote in his favour. When he was campaigning for Brexit, he wanted to do a piece on a ban on live exports of animals which he (correctly) said would only be possible outside the EU. He rang me at home to ask me (as I work for Compassion in World Farming) for the exact details of the issue, for a newspaper column. During the call, I said I'd initially thought it was a hoax, as I'd not expected a private call from him - he laughed unpretentiously and said yes, he could see that, he'd have thought the same. No idea how he got my number.

    I told him what he wanted to know, and a few days later the article appeared, correct in every detail but nonetheless written with his trademark panache. He acknowledged my comments in the article fairly. Overall I felt the encounter reflected well on him - he wanted to get the details right, and was taking the trouble to make sure. (A footnote is that although the ban has now been promised and the Bill introduced, there are rumours that it's being successfully blocked by opposition from Mr Rees-Mogg and other Cabinet ministers. If that proves to be the case, many of us will not be amused.)

    By contrast, when we served on a Bill committee together, he could barely be bothered to turn up a lot of the time, and his contribution to the discussion was pretty much zero. So my overall impression - politics, Brexit and partygate aside - is that he's got a good brain and uses it properly when he chooses to apply it.
    I think that's fairly fair. IMO Johnson is not as bad as his worst critics make out, but he is not good. Most damning IMO is that he has the raw material to be a good PM. His character flaws let him down, time after time.

    As to be fair, most of ours would if we were made PM.
    When all this is over- really over- there's an interesting "What if" alternate history to be written.

    What if Alexander Johnson had tried to do public life with all his talents but without the character flaws?

    Doubt he would have been PM (Dave or May would have got in his way), but EU President?
    He'd have done something more valuable with his life than politics. ;)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator prints all sorts of rubbish. Indeed more rubbish than sensible content, as a rule.
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A fascinating reminder of the psychology of our prime minister by ⁦@RSylvesterTimes⁩. “I’ve never met anyone who believes their own lies so much,” one interviewee says. Inside the mind of Boris Johnson — by his friends and enemies

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7964b540-933c-11ec-bcf4-9dde9b8243da?shareToken=40d53ed15ff73615c1eab46443ee4c89

    [he] can be lazy, manipulative, dishonest and ruthless. Many of those who have worked most closely with the prime minister are among his staunchest critics. Dominic Cummings, his former senior strategist, is only the most high-profile and dangerous example. Another former No 10 aide says, “David Cameron and Tony Blair still have a team of advisers who remain loyal to them. People who have worked for Boris just have horror stories about how appallingly they were treated.” Sir Max Hastings, who was Johnson’s editor at The Daily Telegraph, puts it even more bluntly: “The only people who like Boris Johnson are those who don’t know him.”

    MPs who are watching the polls and recent by-election results are starting to wonder whether the prime minister is becoming a liability rather than an asset. With Shakespearean symmetry, the strengths that got Johnson to the very top have become the weaknesses that may drive him from power.

    The constitutional historian Lord Hennessy...suggests the traditional reliance on decency has been suspended under Johnson, he hopes temporarily. “He’s not a man driven by public service; he is the most dramatic example we have ever had of a vanity prime minister. His great project is himself, which is very dangerous for a country... No prime minister in the 100 years since Lloyd George has had such a disregard for convention and norms of behaviour in their personal and political life. But Lloyd George was a genius and Johnson is not.”

    A former Downing Street aide believes that Johnson has been fatally wounded by his own character flaws. “He believes the worst of everybody, then behaves in such a way to ensure that that will happen. He betrays people and then they do turn on him. It’s a self-fulfilling self-destructive pattern. Behind this persona of the jolly clown, Boris is a deeply scarred, deeply cynical individual.”
    That's quite a devastating piece. Just to be contrarian, I'll offer one anecdote in his favour. When he was campaigning for Brexit, he wanted to do a piece on a ban on live exports of animals which he (correctly) said would only be possible outside the EU. He rang me at home to ask me (as I work for Compassion in World Farming) for the exact details of the issue, for a newspaper column. During the call, I said I'd initially thought it was a hoax, as I'd not expected a private call from him - he laughed unpretentiously and said yes, he could see that, he'd have thought the same. No idea how he got my number.

    I told him what he wanted to know, and a few days later the article appeared, correct in every detail but nonetheless written with his trademark panache. He acknowledged my comments in the article fairly. Overall I felt the encounter reflected well on him - he wanted to get the details right, and was taking the trouble to make sure. (A footnote is that although the ban has now been promised and the Bill introduced, there are rumours that it's being successfully blocked by opposition from Mr Rees-Mogg and other Cabinet ministers. If that proves to be the case, many of us will not be amused.)

    By contrast, when we served on a Bill committee together, he could barely be bothered to turn up a lot of the time, and his contribution to the discussion was pretty much zero. So my overall impression - politics, Brexit and partygate aside - is that he's got a good brain and uses it properly when he chooses to apply it.
    I think that's fairly fair. IMO Johnson is not as bad as his worst critics make out, but he is not good. Most damning IMO is that he has the raw material to be a good PM. His character flaws let him down, time after time.

    As to be fair, most of ours would if we were made PM.
    When all this is over- really over- there's an interesting "What if" alternate history to be written.

    What if Alexander Johnson had tried to do public life with all his talents but without the character flaws?

    Doubt he would have been PM (Dave or May would have got in his way), but EU President?
    It's his character flaws that make him special. His shamelessness and willingness to lie are virtually a superpower. He is very intelligent but so are many people in public life. He couldn't have got to the top without being Bad Boris.
  • Absolutely fascinating peice from Friedman in NY Times:


    "Welcome to World War Wired — the first war in a totally interconnected world."


    "Our world is not going to be the same again because this war has no historical parallel. It is a raw, 18th-century-style land grab by a superpower — but in a 21st-century globalized world. This is the first war that will be covered on TikTok by super-empowered individuals armed only with smartphones, so acts of brutality will be documented and broadcast worldwide without any editors or filters."

    https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/1496957112651763713

    Apparently China uses rather a lot of Ukr barley and corn.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    edited February 2022

    Thinking of positives for important positive thinking. I’ve never known the world so mad and United at one thing before like this. So I don’t feel alone at all, with all world feeling same. From Russian vodka being taken off shelves just about everywhere, Russian tennis player signing no to war on camera. China abstaining. Kazakhstan rejecting Russian pleas for help. Russia kicked off SWIFT - simple, tell the Hun the votes 1245 and vote at noon. Put Vaseline on the rooms outside door handles for good measure.

    It’s a Putin meltdown. He has taken his country to somewhere it doesn’t have a single friend. Even in that country it doesn’t look like he has much friends. And why should he? There’s actually no rational sense to it. Just unhinged evilness. I asked God to make it stop, and put things good between everyone. I can’t ask for something bad to happen to Putin, but I have it in my mind he realised what a terrible mess he’s made and can’t live with it

    PS enjoyed header by Pip Moss again. The coastline in picture looks like it was designed by Slartibartfast.

    "Russia kicked off SWIFT - simple, tell the Hun the votes 1245 and vote at noon. Put Vaseline on the rooms outside door handles for good measure. "

    The scene in the film Elizabeth when Walsingham locks some Bishops in the basement so the Act of Uniformity passes?

    EDIT: +1 for Slartibartfast.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989
    From BBC, is sacked really the right word? He seems to still be a central figure given he is deputy to Putin on that security council.

    Mr Medvedev, who was sacked as prime minister by Vladimir Putin in 2020 and now serves as deputy chair of Moscow's security council,
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    PJohnson said:


    I don't regard being forced to go on unconscious bias training courses as informed politeness but thats just me

    Yes, maybe it is? I'm aware of semi-conscious biases in myself (if a burly job applicant told me he was a keen rugby player I'd instinctively think he maybe had a thuggish streak - but I realise that's because I don't know anything about rugby or people who play it) and can believe in unconscious ones. I went on one of those courses and found it helpful in getting to the bottom of them. You don't suddenly become unbiased as a result, but you become more aware of them and try not to let them influence you.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,270
    Apparently French border forces have seized a Russian cargo ship which was en route to St Petersburg . They suspect it belongs to a company targeted by EU sanctions .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OllyT said:

    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time.

    Tory MPs agree with you

    There has unsurprisingly been a mood-shift in Westminster this week.
    "Whether the PM was truthful about the parties is obviously important, but [the Ukraine-Russia crisis] is really, really fucking important,” a former cabinet minister told @adampayne26.
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite

    The will still of course be massive fall-out if the Met decide to issue Boris Johnson a FPN over parties in the coming weeks, but many believe given the magnitude of the current crisis, the moment for a leadership challenge has passed... for now.

    Story: https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/russia-ukraine-westminster-unite
    The system is set up so that if Brady receives the requisite number of letters, he phones the MPs to check they still want to proceed, suspend or withdraw their letters. It won't get the numbers needed to proceed during the current crisis.

    Equally, I am told that the numbers will be there once the immediate crisis abates if the Met or Grey reports don't give the PM a clean bill of health.
    Only if the PM is fined by the Met or the Tories face massive losses in the local elections in May will the PM face a VONC now.

    Though if Sunak is also fined his leadership chances would be ended too and Hunt or Truss would likely become PM
    Sunak didn't lie to the House....
  • Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    Putin's pals in the West are a disgrace. I don't know about Spikedtator, Spectraitor might be more appropriate.
    I disagree with Rod Liddle (strongly) and that very same issue - I'm a subscriber - contained articles and contributors making precisely the opposite point.

    What are people arguing for? That no British publication should ever publish a contrary article? How would that help people identify all the arguments on an issue or what's right?

    I agree with Andrew Neil. (For the record I absolutely hate Putin and all his works)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    Thinking of positives for important positive thinking. I’ve never known the world so mad and United at one thing before like this. So I don’t feel alone at all, with all world feeling same. From Russian vodka being taken off shelves just about everywhere, Russian tennis player signing no to war on camera. China abstaining. Kazakhstan rejecting Russian pleas for help. Russia kicked off SWIFT - simple, tell the Hun the votes 1245 and vote at noon. Put Vaseline on the rooms outside door handles for good measure.

    It’s a Putin meltdown. He has taken his country to somewhere it doesn’t have a single friend. Even in that country it doesn’t look like he has much friends. And why should he? There’s actually no rational sense to it. Just unhinged evilness. I asked God to make it stop, and put things good between everyone. I can’t ask for something bad to happen to Putin, but I have it in my mind he realised what a terrible mess he’s made and can’t live with it

    PS enjoyed header by Pip Moss again. The coastline in picture looks like it was designed by Slartibartfast.

    "Russia kicked off SWIFT - simple, tell the Hun the votes 1245 and vote at noon. Put Vaseline on the rooms outside door handles for good measure. "

    The scene in the film Elizabeth when Walsingham locks some Bishops in the basement so the Act of Uniformity passes?

    EDIT: +1 for Slartibartfast.
    That’s it. But EU need another 110 years to evolve to such straightforward competence.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2022

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Multiple videos on social media of Russian military out of fuel, food and stuck on highways https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1497485623225200640/video/1

    It's rather odd. Russia has lots of fuel, and none of the vehicles have travelled that far. It may be mechanical faults rather than fuel. Its easy to have large headline numbers of fighting vehicles, but keeping them in fighting order is a more complex and expensive task.
    I watched that video and it appears simply to show that the tanks are stopped. Maybe just waiting for orders?
    Aren’t they securing the bridge? Infantry at one end and a tank at the other?
    https://twitter.com/aliostad/status/1497519277494226944

    Subtitles
  • IanB2 said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator prints all sorts of rubbish. Indeed more rubbish than sensible content, as a rule.
    Its fans including Neil and some PBers are always going on about how successful it is. Interesting to speculate how much the rubbish has contributed to that success.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Multiple videos on social media of Russian military out of fuel, food and stuck on highways https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1497485623225200640/video/1

    The RAC are currently estimating a 27 weeks before they arrive.....
    Anyone remember the Cold War jokes about if the Russians invaded the UK, they would be stuck for ever in a contraflow on the M20?
    Point of order. The “missing link” of the M20 between Ashford and Maidstone wasn’t finished until the Cold War was all but over.

    I bet you all come on here for that sort of insightful commentary.
    You are on FIRE with your Kent commentary today....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    kle4 said:

    From BBC, is sacked really the right word? He seems to still be a central figure given he is deputy to Putin on that security council.

    Mr Medvedev, who was sacked as prime minister by Vladimir Putin in 2020 and now serves as deputy chair of Moscow's security council,

    Russians of my aquitance have referred to him as Putin's puppet in very vulgar terms - Putins hand is up his arse etc....

  • Edward N Luttwak
    @ELuttwak
    Abstract sanctions have delayed, vague and sometimes feeble effects. But if Poland stops traffic from Western Europe to Russia, as it should, the impact would be immediate. The bypass via Czechia and Slovakia from Kosice across the Ukraine would require total tranquility....

    https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/1496957112651763713
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,923

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989
    edited February 2022

    PJohnson said:


    I don't regard being forced to go on unconscious bias training courses as informed politeness but thats just me

    Yes, maybe it is? I'm aware of semi-conscious biases in myself (if a burly job applicant told me he was a keen rugby player I'd instinctively think he maybe had a thuggish streak - but I realise that's because I don't know anything about rugby or people who play it) and can believe in unconscious ones. I went on one of those courses and found it helpful in getting to the bottom of them. You don't suddenly become unbiased as a result, but you become more aware of them and try not to let them influence you.
    I think there is such a thing as unconscious biases, but I am not convinced from the courses I've attended that they actually help you identify or overcome them, or that they drive us as much as people think. I think self reflection is important, but there's a point when it becomes just navel gazing or a self flagellation exercise.

    One in as many words said to watch out for biases, but also said they could reveal themselves by being too friendly or solicitous of others, that is you were showing bias by trying not to show bias, which struck me as unhelpful as it merely confused people as to how they were supposed to think and act.

    From my experience of the courses I'd suspect the ratio of people successfully awoken to some of their unconscious biases will be fewer than they hope vs the number of people now anxious and hyper aware of everyone's differences and overcorrecting. The trainer themself was good, and very clear that intent matters and sometimes people will say and do the 'wrong' thing but that's ok, but in the breakout sessions people were not persuaded that was a general attitude, and in reality it would lead to negtative reaction for unintentional actions.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited February 2022

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    Putin's pals in the West are a disgrace. I don't know about Spikedtator, Spectraitor might be more appropriate.
    I disagree with Rod Liddle (strongly) and that very same issue - I'm a subscriber - contained articles and contributors making precisely the opposite point.

    What are people arguing for? That no British publication should ever publish a contrary article? How would that help people identify all the arguments on an issue or what's right?

    I agree with Andrew Neil. (For the record I absolutely hate Putin and all his works)
    Yup. There was actually a chance for better relations with Putin, although I'm not sure "befriend" is the right word.

    It's been gone for a long time now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033

    Dr. Foxy, equality isn't woke.

    Woke is when you travel in that direction, having a nation already achieved good things (such as racial/sexual equality enshrined in legislation) then keep going so far you start talking about reparations for slavery, for racial quotas in workplaces to discriminate against white people, when you stop considering Koreans to be an ethnic minority because they achieve too well in schooling and the workplace, when disagreement is not cause for debate but censure and censorship, when you think biological men competing in women's sports is a good thing and those who disagree are bigots.

    You tear down statues then complain the right is starting a culture war because they don't literally get on their knees to approve of your self-absorbed vandalism. When violent, fiery protests are described as 'mostly peaceful' by the media, which is then astonished people take it less seriously as a neutral report of the truth.

    Inventing new definitions for what a word means is a valid creative exercise but it does mean we have to come up with a different word for what the old one was describing. Wires will get well and truly crossed otherwise.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,687
    IanB2 said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator prints all sorts of rubbish. Indeed more rubbish than sensible content, as a rule.
    Those of us who worry about cancel culture ought also to be worried about the speed with which anyone who holds a contrary opinion about Russia is vilified.
    I don't agree that Putin was ever likely to be tempted to join the West on the west's terms. It's fairly obvious to me and has been for some time that he is a greater Russian nationalist. But I welcome the opposite opinion being expressed in order to test my understanding.
    Similarly, while I think the eleven Labour MPs aligned with the SWC coalition are utterly derangedon this and almost every other issue, they represent a body of opinion in the country. We should be challenging that view, not attempting to shut it down.
    When only one opinion is able to be expressed we can end up in some dangerous and stupid places.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931

    PJohnson said:


    I don't regard being forced to go on unconscious bias training courses as informed politeness but thats just me

    Yes, maybe it is? I'm aware of semi-conscious biases in myself (if a burly job applicant told me he was a keen rugby player I'd instinctively think he maybe had a thuggish streak - but I realise that's because I don't know anything about rugby or people who play it) and can believe in unconscious ones. I went on one of those courses and found it helpful in getting to the bottom of them. You don't suddenly become unbiased as a result, but you become more aware of them and try not to let them influence you.
    The trainings I have attended were far from useful.

    The Russian friend I attended one such training with said that it reminded him of the political meetings in the USSR military. A lecture followed by people with ambition parroting back the required answers. All without any knowledge imparted, or conviction from the participants.

    He pulled my leg about being a teachers pet, because I told the lecturer exactly what she wanted to hear.

    This is why I reckon Constable Savage is alive, well, got 100% on his anti-bias exams. And is out arresting black people for ordering their coffee black.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IanB2 said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator prints all sorts of rubbish. Indeed more rubbish than sensible content, as a rule.
    Its fans including Neil and some PBers are always going on about how successful it is. Interesting to speculate how much the rubbish has contributed to that success.
    I *must* get round to cancelling my sub. It is Hello mag without pictures; the Xmas issue quite literally had diary pieces by Sarah D of York and the most wasted and uniteresting of the Rolli9ng Stones - Watts?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited February 2022
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator prints all sorts of rubbish. Indeed more rubbish than sensible content, as a rule.
    Those of us who worry about cancel culture ought also to be worried about the speed with which anyone who holds a contrary opinion about Russia is vilified.
    I don't agree that Putin was ever likely to be tempted to join the West on the west's terms. It's fairly obvious to me and has been for some time that he is a greater Russian nationalist. But I welcome the opposite opinion being expressed in order to test my understanding.
    Similarly, while I think the eleven Labour MPs aligned with the SWC coalition are utterly derangedon this and almost every other issue, they represent a body of opinion in the country. We should be challenging that view, not attempting to shut it down.
    When only one opinion is able to be expressed we can end up in some dangerous and stupid places.
    Yes. There can be a danger of war-type censorship and groupthink. The West made both offensive and defensive mistakes with Putin, over a period of years, and anything else is self-serving fantasy.

    But what's done is done, and we have to face the issues of today.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,349

    Nigelb said:

    @Nigelb


    It's based on data for voluntary forces. In the US it's less than 2% and in the UK under 0.5% at the moment.

    In the IDF fewer than 4 percent of women are in combat positions such as tank commanders, infantry, helicopter or fighter pilots and don't forget they have universal conscription too.

    Edit: this shouldn't surprise us. You need high levels of testosterone and aggression for close-quarters combat, and significant physical strength and endurance to deal with heavy weaponry and forced marches, so the numbers will always be heavily skewed by biological reality no matter how much we try to convince ourselves to the contrary with our weird present day social-political obsession with identity politics.

    it’s a moving target, as the disparity between the UK and US figures suggests, and the Israeli experience makes very clear:
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/diplomacy-defense/1637001832-israel-military-a-record-year-for-women-in-combat-units

    My anecdotal experience of friends kids joining the forces is that things are changing here, too.

    I don’t want to get into a pissing match, but I think on this you’re on balance wrong. The numbers aren’t sufficiently skewed by biology to make much of a difference in a large number of roles - particularly when you’re talking about the very small percentage of the total population which makes up the military.
    I'm not wrong in the slightest. My numbers are factually accurate and absolutely verifiable - look up US numbers, UK numbers or Israel here:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Israel_Defense_Forces#:~:text=As of 2011, 88% of,helicopter or fighter pilots, etc.

    "As of 2011, 88% of all roles in the IDF were open to female candidates, while women could actually be found in 69% of all positions.[8][9]

    In 2014, the IDF said that fewer than 4 percent of women are in combat positions such as light infantry, helicopter or fighter pilots, etc. Rather, they are concentrated in "combat-support".[10]"

    "The most notable combat option for women is the Caracal Battalion, which is a light infantry force that is made up of 70 percent female soldiers.[3] The unit undergoes combat infantry training."

    If you conscript both men and women, as Israel does, you may well have sufficient numbers to be able to form a mixed combat battalion but numbers will otherwise remain small.

    There's a difference between opening up all roles to either men or women and expecting this to result in 50:50 splits in all matters, everywhere, otherwise assuming this must be discrimination.

    Down that path madness lies.
    Yes, the insistence on striving for numerical equality is where things go wrong.

    The other phenomenon I encounter frequently in my (non military) area of work is the celebration of "all female" or "majority female" teams. I currently work in one of the latter without any problems, but I don't think it is anything worth celebrating. I find the fact that people choose to do so, along with the continuing presence of "womens industry groups" in an industry where most of the leadership of the profession is now female (albeit with some noticeable male bastions) to be indicative of the challenge involved in actually moving towards actual gender equality. In the end, people instinctively fight for advantage and dominance, not equality.
  • If this carries on going as badly as it may just possibly be, how long before Putin turns in anger on his generals and military advisors?

    He 'aint gonna accept any blame himself.

    Then what will they do?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,550
    Macron is doing well. Essentially blockading the channel.
This discussion has been closed.