*If* Ukraine somehow beats back Russia what's the next stage? Does Putin back down and admit defeat (cemeting his own removal, in time), or does he escalate? Putin's already made the calculation that the West won't intervene or militarily retaliate for conventional warfare in Ukraine. Not a massive step, especially for someone evidently not acting rationally, to escalate to nuclear warfare - with no fear of retribution.
I dearly want Ukraine to win, but the consequences of winning may be truly grim.
Sky reporting that if Russian forces are held up they could use thermo baric super powerful non nuclear bomb
Breaking
UN resolution 11 in favour and 1 against ( Russia) and 3 abstentions, China, India and UAE
Sky saying very important China has abstained and clear message Russia is isolated
Do the Ukrainians not have access to thermobaric technology?
The old means, motive, opportunity applies.
Do they have the means? Possibly.
Do they have the motive? Definitely not, it'd reduce their western support and push Russian citizens (who are the only effective way out) against them.
Do they have the opportunity? Almost certainly not, Major Russian cities are (a) far away, and (b) more than adequately defended.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
Can I suggest people don't bother taking holidays in Dubai?
India - well it's a poor country overall.
I don't know much about Dubai, so perhaps someone can enlighten me what the attraction is. All i know is that every single person I've ever known who has gone there for a holiday has also been a utter bag of toss. Pricks who drive BMWs and listen to 5live. You know the type.
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
Whatever you think, it's politically impossible for him to back down now. Legends are being born.
Snake Island The Ghost Klitschko
I don’t share your views on this at all.
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
I understand India buys a lot of military kit of Russia, including some 'technology transfer' to build local equipment. and I think India feels it needs to keep this trade open, in fear of china mostly.
still disappointing.
"I feel I must apologize for my nation of birth's conduct during the Ukraine War!"
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
Whatever you think, it's politically impossible for him to back down now. Legends are being born.
Snake Island The Ghost Klitschko
I don’t share your views on this at all.
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
There's no resolution to this war, outside a Russian revolution, that sees Ukraine winning without horrendous civilian fatalities via unconventional warfare. Already we have an example of cluster munitions being used against a hospital in Kharkiv.
As an admitted ignoramus, I don't really see the point of tanks. Who would get behind the wheel of one of those things (unless you're Liz Truss) to roll slowly toward somewhere with everyone taking potshots at you? Protestors seem to be the only thing a tank is good against. Haven't attack helicopters been the way forward for 30 years or more?
Up until recently decent tank armour has been fine against the widely available anti-tank infantry weaponry. They were mainly vulnerable to air-to-ground. Now, they've been tested against modern anti-tank infantry systems, and found wanting.
That's not a thought experiment, that's asking people to mix their prejudice with their ignorance of who's done what and come out with the answer that suits their political agenda.
I can't help feeling the West sitting on its hands is morally reprehensible. I am no hawk, but we are watching lambs to slaughter.
What on Earth do you want us to do, fight Russia? That paranoid psychopath in the Kremlin may well order us all wiped out with nuclear weapons as it is at the rate things are going. Starting World War III virtually guarantees it.
Putin and Lavrov don't give a f***. Putin has already suggested he will use nukes.
I seldom agree with David Davis, but I am agreeing with him today.
Military intervention too late now to help Ukraine people, if you accept, and some prominent Tory MPs don’t - we could not put NATO on the ground with no fly zone last month to deter Putin, then sanctions, this week, proper unified sanctions to bring down Putin regime, was really our last hope in the West not to concede failure on Ukraine. It was actually something we could do.
But this evening? Who wants to post they believe these sanctions will achieve that? Who wants to post, what they see is resolve from Western leaders to maintain sanction till Putin is gone, this won’t melt away as its always have done before, as bastard Putin is banking on.
In short Pete, I’m saying it’s too late. It would have to have gone in month ago as deterrent.
Yeah but it's all ok because the UN are going to pass a resolution deploring it that the Chinese might abstain in and the Russians will definitely veto. So that's all good then.
None of it is good. We couldn’t help the Ukraine people this time. It’s because Putin is crazy and unpredictable. And unified sanctions were a big flop. Again.
The only hope with me is he might have blown it with his own people. I’m not convinced because city’s tend to be a bit cosmo-litan, right wing autocrats like Putin and Erdogan tend to get their support from out in the sticks.
But if we are listening to Boris address, we don’t want anymore Russian or Ukrainian people getting hurt in this meat blender of a conflict this weekend? I don’t. I want them to live and see a future without Putin.
Sad now. 😕
1000 miles to the West and it could be my family in this nightmare. It is that close to home. Under the same circumstances I would like to think the cavalry would be coming to rescue me.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
I can't help feeling the West sitting on its hands is morally reprehensible. I am no hawk, but we are watching lambs to slaughter.
What on Earth do you want us to do, fight Russia? That paranoid psychopath in the Kremlin may well order us all wiped out with nuclear weapons as it is at the rate things are going. Starting World War III virtually guarantees it.
Putin and Lavrov don't give a f***. Putin has already suggested he will use nukes.
I seldom agree with David Davis, but I am agreeing with him today.
Military intervention too late now to help Ukraine people, if you accept, and some prominent Tory MPs don’t - we could not put NATO on the ground with no fly zone last month to deter Putin, then sanctions, this week, proper unified sanctions to bring down Putin regime, was really our last hope in the West not to concede failure on Ukraine. It was actually something we could do.
But this evening? Who wants to post they believe these sanctions will achieve that? Who wants to post, what they see is resolve from Western leaders to maintain sanction till Putin is gone, this won’t melt away as its always have done before, as bastard Putin is banking on.
In short Pete, I’m saying it’s too late. It would have to have gone in month ago as deterrent.
Yeah but it's all ok because the UN are going to pass a resolution deploring it that the Chinese might abstain in and the Russians will definitely veto. So that's all good then.
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
I really cannot follow what point you are trying to make. There is a war going on, and whatever complexities may exist one side is the aggressor and one is defending itself. Almost no one wants to see war happen, but the ram has touched the wall, and it seems pretty natural people would hope that the innocent defenders will be successful. But in a war people on the good side still die as well.
Doesn't mean anyone wants it, or is against there being ceasefires, but ceasefires and treaties only hold if aggressors know the cost of breaking them is not worth it, and that does mean the poor Ukrainians and their leaders will fight, and may die, in order to purchase such a ceasefire. If the Ukrainian annoucement is correct their fighting and dying has already opened up a possibility of such an event which Putin's manic talk earlier would have suggested was implausible. Similar mettle would open up more opportunities.
That't not bloodthirsty, it's not eager, it seems pretty pragmatic to me. People know they are not on the frontlines with the Ukrainians, none of us are, but these events do have geopolitical consequences, there's nothing untoward in contemplating it, and supporting defensive efforts being robust is not to enjoy it.
That's not a thought experiment, that's asking people to mix their prejudice with their ignorance of who's done what and come out with the answer that suits their political agenda.
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
If Klitchko and Zelenskiy are dead, they will be martyrs to the cause and Ukraine will fight on. Their resolve is Churchillian "we will fight them on the beaches" type stuff. Never surrender. As much as people like you want them to. Russia will keep bleeding until they pull out.
If I shared your view of Ukraine victory I wouldn’t be a surrender monkey. I don’t know how you think it’s going that way though.
I’ll never share your view of armchair PB generals enjoying the martyrdom of Klitchko and Zelenskiy. I’ll say a prayer for your souls too.
The National Bank of Ukraine has opened a special account to raise funds for the Ukrainian Army. Anyone from any country can donate.
The account is multi-currency. It is opened for transfers of funds from international partners and donors, any person as well as from Ukrainian business and citizens. Details listed below are also on the bank’s official website.
🇬🇧 For donations in GBP: SWIFT Code NBU: NBUA UA UX Bank of England, London SWIFT Code: BKENGB2L Account: 40000982 Threadneedle Street, London EC2R 8AH, UK IBAN: UA843000010000000047330992708
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
Yes, it is depressingly English not to speak another language. Even living in another country. We in Wales know this all too well.
And in Canada, most of the Anglo Prime Ministers can't even speak their country's other official language, French.
PM Harper's attempts to speak French were excruciating. Almost as funny as Redwood's famous attempt to sing in Welsh.
Characteristically, Trudeau speaks professorial, classical French ... which is nothing like the language spoken in Quebec.
My 19 year old granddaughter speaks English, Welsh, French, Italian and Japanese
Good for your granddaughter! いいです
Multilingualism is much commoner in the world than we realise in England. People in Africa are frequently multilingual.
"On 14 June 2014, a Ukrainian Air Force Il-76 was shot down by ground fire from pro-Russian separatists while on approach to landing at Luhansk, resulting in the deaths of 40 soldiers and nine crew members on board"
There's no resolution to this war, outside a Russian revolution, that sees Ukraine winning without horrendous civilian fatalities via unconventional warfare. Already we have an example of cluster munitions being used against a hospital in Kharkiv.
Maybe there is a resolution. Just a theory, but will China really want to be seen as so buddy-buddy with a set of murdering butchers that Putin's gang have become for too much longer?
Perhaps Jingping will be gently guiding his little Russian doll towards the treaty table?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the average person reading the tabloids or Facebook did not see anything like this amount of coverage last time Ukraine was invaded, never mind when Georgia was invaded. So politically the sanctions coming in now could be sustained for much longer than previously - and many of the previous sanctions are of course still in place (e.g. in Belarus). In other words, a much more anti-Russia foreign policy regime in the 2020s.
Its not really an indication of going all in. The aim was maybe to go for a smaller rapid move inside Kiev to either seize a key point/kill key personnel or to provide another flank given that the Russians have yet to complete an encirclement. It could even be seen as something to avoid bringing in heavy gear.
The only way of knowing what it was though is whether this was one aircraft...or one of several.
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
Yes, it is depressingly English not to speak another language. Even living in another country. We in Wales know this all too well.
And in Canada, most of the Anglo Prime Ministers can't even speak their country's other official language, French.
PM Harper's attempts to speak French were excruciating. Almost as funny as Redwood's famous attempt to sing in Welsh.
Characteristically, Trudeau speaks professorial, classical French ... which is nothing like the language spoken in Quebec.
My 19 year old granddaughter speaks English, Welsh, French, Italian and Japanese
Good for your granddaughter! いいです
Multilingualism is much commoner in the world than we realise in England. People in Africa are frequently multilingual.
I think people in England realise it, since we can see how common English is spoken around the globe, never mind all the other multilinguists out there. We're just too lazy on the whole to follow suit.
Illia Ponomarenko @IAPonomarenko JUST IN: In Donbas, a Ukrainian S-300 system downs a Russian Sukhoi Su-25 and a helicopter at midnight, Ukraine’s government says
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
I am ENTJ, to be fair.
I don’t understand what it stands for. But although cross with you, I still read everything and respect you.
I can only repeat what I said earlier. My fear is that Putin, like Trump, is emotionally immature and a bad loser. I know we're not talking board games but you get the picture.
Anyway I've been up since 5 so i ought to go to bed. Hoping not to wake up to some bad news tomorrow.
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
Whatever you think, it's politically impossible for him to back down now. Legends are being born.
Snake Island The Ghost Klitschko
I don’t share your views on this at all.
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
I was making a dispassionate assessment of what I imagine the mood is like in Ukraine.
After the some of the examples set already, it would be exceptionally difficult to abandon your friends. As far as I am aware, soldiers fight for those around them, not their country/leaders.
Personally, I'd have been first on the bus to Poland.
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
Yes, it is depressingly English not to speak another language. Even living in another country. We in Wales know this all too well.
And in Canada, most of the Anglo Prime Ministers can't even speak their country's other official language, French.
PM Harper's attempts to speak French were excruciating. Almost as funny as Redwood's famous attempt to sing in Welsh.
Characteristically, Trudeau speaks professorial, classical French ... which is nothing like the language spoken in Quebec.
My 19 year old granddaughter speaks English, Welsh, French, Italian and Japanese
Good for your granddaughter! いいです
Multilingualism is much commoner in the world than we realise in England. People in Africa are frequently multilingual.
You should meet the average Afghan. Often illiterate. Six language fluency not uncommon.
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
Yes, it is depressingly English not to speak another language. Even living in another country. We in Wales know this all too well.
And in Canada, most of the Anglo Prime Ministers can't even speak their country's other official language, French.
PM Harper's attempts to speak French were excruciating. Almost as funny as Redwood's famous attempt to sing in Welsh.
Characteristically, Trudeau speaks professorial, classical French ... which is nothing like the language spoken in Quebec.
My 19 year old granddaughter speaks English, Welsh, French, Italian and Japanese
Good for your granddaughter! いいです
Multilingualism is much commoner in the world than we realise in England. People in Africa are frequently multilingual.
She has a real talent and has been accepted to Kyoto Doshisha University in September as part of her language and culture course
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
I am ENTJ, to be fair.
I don’t understand what it stands for. But although cross with you, I still read everything and respect you.
This lighting up buildings in Ukrainian colours is frankly insulting. What virtue signalling crap
It now the defacto 21st Century response, along with update your social media account with a flag whenever anything bad happens.
Honestly, so long as it is not a constant thing, I think signalling virtue via your social media account is not that aggravating, everyone is all just commenting and signalling in some way anyway. But signalling it via some light show on a building? It's overdone and lame.
Far too many it literally is a constant thing now on their social media, just a different one every week.
Could be a good game - pick some obscure flags, and when someone looks them up and asks what you've got it up for affect some shocked condescension 'If you have to ask, you're part of the problem' and see how many fellow travellers pretend to agree with the campaign you are showing fake solidarity with.
It’s a dangerous game. One of the bridges in Inverness was lit up in blue and yellow a few days ago and lumps were felt in many proud throats, possibly including my own, at the brave and expeditious action of Highland Council. Turns out it was for Fair Trade Week.
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
Whatever you think, it's politically impossible for him to back down now. Legends are being born.
Snake Island The Ghost Klitschko
I don’t share your views on this at all.
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
You're missing the point made somewhat...
The Scargill - Putin comparison is interesting and provocative.
Both are evil, hubristic men. Scargill lost because he was a demagogue and arrogant thinking that he could impose his will on his perceived followers.
I wonder if Putin will make a similar mistake?
Putin has expressed his admiration for the USSR. Scargill remains a fanboy of Stalin.
Not at all. They were trying to take the airbase at Hostomel but the Ukies kicked their arses. The idea was to go in with an air landing brigade and a short drive. Paratroopers aren't actually that brilliant, not for a major assault. It's a workaround.
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
They might have been unhappy to go into Ukraine. Easier to keep them in the dark.
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
Some of the Argentinians in the Falklands thought they were still in Argentina. Couldn't understand why the brits were invading
There's no resolution to this war, outside a Russian revolution, that sees Ukraine winning without horrendous civilian fatalities via unconventional warfare. Already we have an example of cluster munitions being used against a hospital in Kharkiv.
Maybe there is a resolution. Just a theory, but will China really want to be seen as so buddy-buddy with a set of murdering butchers that Putin's gang have become for too much longer?
Perhaps Jingping will be gently guiding his little Russian doll towards the treaty table?
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
Yes, it is depressingly English not to speak another language. Even living in another country. We in Wales know this all too well.
And in Canada, most of the Anglo Prime Ministers can't even speak their country's other official language, French.
PM Harper's attempts to speak French were excruciating. Almost as funny as Redwood's famous attempt to sing in Welsh.
Characteristically, Trudeau speaks professorial, classical French ... which is nothing like the language spoken in Quebec.
My 19 year old granddaughter speaks English, Welsh, French, Italian and Japanese
Good for your granddaughter! いいです
Multilingualism is much commoner in the world than we realise in England. People in Africa are frequently multilingual.
She has a real talent and has been accepted to Kyoto Doshisha University in September as part of her language and culture course
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
Unfortunately, this is in keeping with tales of the 2014 invasions, too. Snyder covers this a little in "The Road to Unfreedom"
Its not really an indication of going all in. The aim was maybe to go for a smaller rapid move inside Kiev to either seize a key point/kill key personnel or to provide another flank given that the Russians have yet to complete an encirclement. It could even be seen as something to avoid bringing in heavy gear.
The only way of knowing what it was though is whether this was one aircraft...or one of several.
I meant in response.
Putin is losing the information war big time and morale must be plummeting. He'll have to go in big to save face.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
Our sanctions are weaker than any of them by far. Is that a fair metric?
I would say that there isn't much to choose between Biden, Johnson, Macron VdL etc as policy is pretty much in lockstep between all of them. Germany is reluctant, for obvious historical reasons.
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
It's probably got worse over the last 50 years or so. It used to be common for a lot of middle-class people to be able to at least speak French. Today most of them can't.
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
It does sound completely stupid - but there's at least 4 or 5 videoed examples, including some who reportedly surrendered voluntarily, of Russian soldiers saying that they thought that they were on training exercises right up until they invaded. May be propaganda though. However the best way to stop a 19 year old from demolishing your opsec is to simply not tell them anything, so who knows.
I believe similar stories surfaced in the Crimean invasion/
The National Bank of Ukraine has opened a special account to raise funds for the Ukrainian Army. Anyone from any country can donate.
The account is multi-currency. It is opened for transfers of funds from international partners and donors, any person as well as from Ukrainian business and citizens. Details listed below are also on the bank’s official website.
🇬🇧 For donations in GBP: SWIFT Code NBU: NBUA UA UX Bank of England, London SWIFT Code: BKENGB2L Account: 40000982 Threadneedle Street, London EC2R 8AH, UK IBAN: UA843000010000000047330992708
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
Could be that's what they were ordered to say, of course. But there doesn't seem much overt enthusiasm for this from your average Russian citizen. And the grunts are just that of course. There's lots of Ukrainian video of captured troops saying exactly this. No surprise they aren't making much progress if true. They probably aren't even expecting resistance. Let alone live fire.
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
It's probably got worse over the last 50 years or so. It used to be common for a lot of middle-class people to be able to at least speak French. Today most of them can't.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
We have provided weapons and training taking out Russian tanks as we post
We are providing further weapons and are very much favoured by them
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
I am ENTJ, to be fair.
I don’t understand what it stands for. But although cross with you, I still read everything and respect you.
It's "Commander" on the Myers Briggs thing.
Lunatic and Isis are yet to be confirmed. Plenty of the former in here, not sure we have many of the latter.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
We are doing economic sanctions which is all we can do beyond the arms already provided.
If Putin invades a NATO nation we may well be in World War 3, so we would end up doing quite a lot then!
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
Whatever you think, it's politically impossible for him to back down now. Legends are being born.
Snake Island The Ghost Klitschko
I don’t share your views on this at all.
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
You're missing the point made somewhat...
The Scargill - Putin comparison is interesting and provocative.
Both are evil, hubristic men. Scargill lost because he was a demagogue and arrogant thinking that he could impose his will on his perceived followers.
I wonder if Putin will make a similar mistake?
Putin has expressed his admiration for the USSR. Scargill remains a fanboy of Stalin.
AFAIK, Scargill has not suborned assassinations, and instigated mass murder.
Every Russian spokesperson on TV comes across as a slimy, shifty, lying b**trad.
That’s how many Scots see Unionist spokespersons.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
You really are nasty and do not speak for the vast majority of generous Scots
Neither do you tbf.
I speak for more than you do
Typical expat.
No, he's right. I meet people from all corners of Scotland and whenever I try to engage in political discussions they always say "no, Big_G speaks for me".
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
I really cannot follow what point you are trying to make. There is a war going on, and whatever complexities may exist one side is the aggressor and one is defending itself. Almost no one wants to see war happen, but the ram has touched the wall, and it seems pretty natural people would hope that the innocent defenders will be successful. But in a war people on the good side still die as well.
Doesn't mean anyone wants it, or is against there being ceasefires, but ceasefires and treaties only hold if aggressors know the cost of breaking them is not worth it, and that does mean the poor Ukrainians and their leaders will fight, and may die, in order to purchase such a ceasefire. If the Ukrainian annoucement is correct their fighting and dying has already opened up a possibility of such an event which Putin's manic talk earlier would have suggested was implausible. Similar mettle would open up more opportunities.
That't not bloodthirsty, it's not eager, it seems pretty pragmatic to me. People know they are not on the frontlines with the Ukrainians, none of us are, but these events do have geopolitical consequences, there's nothing untoward in contemplating it, and supporting defensive efforts being robust is not to enjoy it.
“ I really cannot follow what point you are trying to make. “.
At some point Putin goes. The sun might come out, the wind blow fair from the East. Quiet will flow the Don.
But all those who die between now and the ceasefire will never know this place. Whilst their families tears will fall forever.
I don’t expect or demand everyone to agree with me. But surely you can understand the point I am making?
But you have all put doubts in my mind Ukraine are definitely losing this to the saddest outcome, so I will shut up, log out, and see what tomorrow brings. 🙋♀️
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
It's probably got worse over the last 50 years or so. It used to be common for a lot of middle-class people to be able to at least speak French. Today most of them can't.
Why would you learn French?
A lot of Africa is Francophone, as well as our southern neighbour.
I speak German, which is far less useful, though I can manage holiday Italian, Spanish and a few pleasantries in Chichewa.
Its not really an indication of going all in. The aim was maybe to go for a smaller rapid move inside Kiev to either seize a key point/kill key personnel or to provide another flank given that the Russians have yet to complete an encirclement. It could even be seen as something to avoid bringing in heavy gear.
The only way of knowing what it was though is whether this was one aircraft...or one of several.
I meant in response.
Putin is losing the information war big time and morale must be plummeting. He'll have to go in big to save face.
The information war only matters if he cannot achieve the military objectives in a fortnight. Gets those before that time window its job done, bad publicity or not.
Every Russian spokesperson on TV comes across as a slimy, shifty, lying b**trad.
That’s how many Scots see Unionist spokespersons.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
You really are nasty and do not speak for the vast majority of generous Scots
Neither do you tbf.
I speak for more than you do
Well, I know I live in Scotland and actually own proper moth eaten kilts passed on by my dad rather than tourist crap, but yeah.
I am not a tourist and have an extensive Scottish family who have moth eaten kilts passed down through generations and back to the time when the womenfolk carried their menfolk onto their fishing boats to keep their feet dry
Many reports of captured Russians not knowing they were in Ukraine. And thinking this was an exercise. Doesn't suggest much faith in the mission tbh.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard if it were true. I get footsoldiers won't know the full picture, but what would be the point of keeping them that in the dark?
They might have been unhappy to go into Ukraine. Easier to keep them in the dark.
"I didn't know" is exactly what I'd say if I was captured by a bunch of vengeful Ukrainians.
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
It's probably got worse over the last 50 years or so. It used to be common for a lot of middle-class people to be able to at least speak French. Today most of them can't.
Everyone should learn Mandarin. It's a piece of piss in comparison.*
*No way connected to my qualification to teach it. Reasonable rates.
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
I am not enjoying it. I have been to Ukraine on holiday it is a beautiful country with lovely friendly people who want to be part of the European mainstream. I have Ukrainian friends.
But to get the best terms he needs to get the Russians into the meat grinder and kill more of them.
Sorry, but that's how you fight a war.
You sure it’s going to work out next couple of days like you saying. We might wake up in morning with Klitchko and Zelenskiy dead and gone for good 😕.
If Eabhal then posts like the lunatic ISIS commander he is - Fantastic! Legends! Martyrdom! I will throw up. 🤮
I am ENTJ, to be fair.
I don’t understand what it stands for. But although cross with you, I still read everything and respect you.
It's "Commander" on the Myers Briggs thing.
Lunatic and Isis are yet to be confirmed. Plenty of the former in here, not sure we have many of the latter.
21:33 BREAKING Zelensky - Ukraine ready to discuss ceasefire A spokesman for Ukrainian President Zelensky has just said the country is prepared to hold ceasefire and peace talks with Russia immediately.
He said Russian and Ukrainian officials are currently discussing a time and place for talks to be held.
21:41 Ukraine denies reports it rebuffed offer of peace talks Ukraine has denied reports that it rebuffed a Russian offer to explore peace talks.
The Ukrainian president's spokesman, Serhiy Nykyforov, said on Facebook: "I have to deny statements that we have refused to hold talks.
"Ukraine was and remains ready to talk about the end to fighting and about peace. This is our unchanged position.
"We agreed to the offer by the Russian president. Right at this moment, the sides are consulting on the place and time of holding the negotiating process.
"The sooner the talks begin, the more chances there will be to restore normal life."
I don’t think this means that talks have been agreed - rather that Ukraine has countered Putin’s suggestion of talks, which carried absurd preconditions (effectively unconditional surrender), with their own more rational offer.
I’m praying for a ceasefire when I go to bed tonight.
Building on what Boris has said, Russian people we don’t blame you, if Sunday’s ceasefire comes Saturday, a lot of people on both sides can go home to their families and live to see a Putinless future. That’s what I want for them. Though I still listen to and respect you if you disagree. But I’m wanting quick ceasefire.
I think a ceasefire is premature. A ceasefire favours the belligerent on top. At the moment it would favour the Russians. Get them into Kyiv and start murdering them street by street and a ceasefire might start to favour the Ukies.
My Dad told me when Arthur Scargill called the miners strike off, they had a big booze up in the con club. I asked, why did he call it off. The answer, leaders can only lead their people so far into a lost cause.
I’m not saying you are wrong for enjoying it and wanting it to carry on. I’m saying I can see the sad end result so I am not enjoying it.
I don’t see myself as too soft or anti war, I’ve supported all UK action in my lifetime, and ones I have read up on. I even support Suez because we had to draw a line in the sand on US influence somewhere somehow.
when I said ceasefire and Zelenskiy talking, it was as a good leader not weak one I was thinking. At some point I’m sure he is thinking, (but the PB armchair generals to their shame definitely are nott) hOw far should good leadership lead their people into a meat grinder?
Whatever you think, it's politically impossible for him to back down now. Legends are being born.
Snake Island The Ghost Klitschko
I don’t share your views on this at all.
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
You're missing the point made somewhat...
The Scargill - Putin comparison is interesting and provocative.
Both are evil, hubristic men. Scargill lost because he was a demagogue and arrogant thinking that he could impose his will on his perceived followers.
I wonder if Putin will make a similar mistake?
Putin has expressed his admiration for the USSR. Scargill remains a fanboy of Stalin.
AFAIK, Scargill has not suborned assassinations, and instigated mass murder.
There was that time he invaded a neighbouring country because he believed himself to be the reincarnation of a 10th Century prince of Novgorod... no, wait, that was Putin again.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
We have provided weapons and training taking out Russian tanks as we post
We are providing further weapons and are very much favoured by them
I think the most useful thing that we are providing are signals interception and satellite intelligence.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
We're not doing enough, but our response is one of the stronger ones. 3,000 NLaws are making a massive difference, and will be even more effective as urban warfare begins given their fire and forget capabilities, alongside their two stage launch meaning that you can launch it out of a small room with a window in a tower block.
Additionally we're one of 4(?) countries who have agreed to send Ukraine all that they request, alongside Poland, Estonia, and another. Our intelligence is also remarkably useful, with one of the heads of the UK security services going on record to claim credit for thew accurate predictions.
Can I suggest people don't bother taking holidays in Dubai?
India - well it's a poor country overall.
I don't know much about Dubai, so perhaps someone can enlighten me what the attraction is. All i know is that every single person I've ever known who has gone there for a holiday has also been a utter bag of toss. Pricks who drive BMWs and listen to 5live. You know the type.
A fair number from Chigwell and Brentwood go on winter holidays to Dubai certainly.
John Terry is also a regular visitor, as is Ronaldo. Plenty of Russian oligarchs too, hence Dubai abstained on the resolution
How depressingly English it is to be impressed by a fat lying soj when he turns out to be a flsoj who can string together three rehearsed sentences in a foreign language. Even if he could take and answer questions in that language which I bet he couldn't, that's standard in politicians anywhere else in the world, USA excepted.
It's probably got worse over the last 50 years or so. It used to be common for a lot of middle-class people to be able to at least speak French. Today most of them can't.
Why would you learn French?
A lot of Africa is Francophone, as well as our southern neighbour.
I speak German, which is far less useful, though I can manage holiday Italian, Spanish and a few pleasantries in Chichewa.
I manage some German and Russian and can attempt some Ukrainian, Czech and Polish (although Polish pronunciation is nasty). Was rather lost in Spain last year as a surprising number of Amdalusians don't seem to realise that the English are one of their biggest customers.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
We have provided weapons and training taking out Russian tanks as we post
We are providing further weapons and are very much favoured by them
I think the most useful thing that we are providing are signals interception and satellite intelligence.
They would compliment the tank busters which are being used effectively
Can I suggest people don't bother taking holidays in Dubai?
India - well it's a poor country overall.
I don't know much about Dubai, so perhaps someone can enlighten me what the attraction is. All i know is that every single person I've ever known who has gone there for a holiday has also been a utter bag of toss. Pricks who drive BMWs and listen to 5live. You know the type.
A fair number from Chigwell and Brentwood go on winter holidays to Dubai certainly.
John Terry is also a regular visitor, as is Ronaldo.
John Terry today bought a Bored Ape Yacht Club NFT, nothing more needs to be said.....
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
We have provided weapons and training taking out Russian tanks as we post
We are providing further weapons and are very much favoured by them
I think the most useful thing that we are providing are signals interception and satellite intelligence.
I believe we made Russian.troop movements publicly available. But we really are falling short on the sanctions. We are the country who could really hit the Russian elite hard. We don't seem to have the will. We should.
I don't that that tweet makes the critical point you seem to think it does.
I've been vocal in dislike of Boris, including that the current situation should not mean he sticks around - quite the opposite in fact.
But that tweet to me shows that he could see things are serious and for once cut out the showmanship and bluster, and made as reasonable a pledge as he could make. NOT seeking to embody the spirit of Churchill in such a moment or indulge in grandiose verbosity would be one of the more professional, serious things Boris will have done as PM.
Zelensky doesn't need a faux-Churchill, he needs help. Boris cannot really give him much, but within the bounds of diplomatic support he's offered what he can.
I doubt Zelensky wanted to hear funny stories about trips to Peppa Pig world....or false promises about the British coming to fight the Russian on the beaches.
Ultimately Boris reaction will be judged by what kit they get to the Ukrainians and how effective sanctions are.
I certainly don’t see much political upside for the PM in providing some warm words and allowing a few buildings to be lit up in blue and yellow, if the outcome is a disaster for Ukraine and its people. The upside for him is simply in pushing his inadequacies and dishonesty off the news agenda.
No matter Boris and the UK are greatly appreciated by the president and people's of Ukraine together with the Baltic states
Like the rest of the West we are doing the square root of zip for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians have begged for our help and we have left them wanting. Europe should hang its head in shame.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
I feel the same way. But intervention after fighting has started involves a far greater risk of nuclear escalation that would fighting to defend an attack NATO territory. Putin’s paranoia guarantees that. The US simply isn’t going to risk it.
Russia v Georgia rugby in Tblisi called off this weekend. Probably sensible, but a shame for the historians seeking real time reactions in the years to come. Was on course for a 54k sellout of the national stadium.
Every Russian spokesperson on TV comes across as a slimy, shifty, lying b**trad.
That’s how many Scots see Unionist spokespersons.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
You really are nasty and do not speak for the vast majority of generous Scots
Neither do you tbf.
I speak for more than you do
Well, I know I live in Scotland and actually own proper moth eaten kilts passed on by my dad rather than tourist crap, but yeah.
I am not a tourist and have an extensive Scottish family who have moth eaten kilts passed down through generations and back to the time when the womenfolk carried their menfolk onto their fishing boats to keep their feet dry
Our sanctions are weaker than any of them by far. Is that a fair metric?
Not true
What isn't?
Our sanctions are equal to anyone's and indeed way ahead of Germany and are pushing for Russia to be thrown out of Switt
Germany doesn't.have sanctions. The EU does. They've been strengthened three times already in as many days. Meanwhile, the elite are free to swan around Kensington. With their kids in boarding schools.
Our sanctions are weaker than any of them by far. Is that a fair metric?
Not true
What isn't?
Our sanctions are equal to anyone's and indeed way ahead of Germany and are pushing for Russia to be thrown out of Switt
We've also banned Russian aircraft which along with Poland, Czechia and Bulgaria is still a minority approach. So far from the US Delta dropping its code-share with Aeroflot is all we've seen.
Comments
Do they have the means? Possibly.
Do they have the motive? Definitely not, it'd reduce their western support and push Russian citizens (who are the only effective way out) against them.
Do they have the opportunity? Almost certainly not, Major Russian cities are (a) far away, and (b) more than adequately defended.
Tory MP : Too scared to write a letter
Any major Western leader performed better than BJ so far? Any country's reputation been burnished more than UK?
Scholz/Germany? Macron/France? Draghi/Italy? Biden/US?
I don’t think you are in the bunker with them tonight, but miles away in comfort behind a posting alias.
What a responsibility on leaders in situations like this? My view is, anyone who wants more martyrs from both sides this weekend must have the same view of humanity as Putin. You are over egging the Ukraine position and how this likely now to go for your own enjoyment 😠
max seddon
@maxseddon
·
1m
Zelensky warns Russia will storm Kyiv tonight in “vile, cruel and inhuman” fashion.
“We have to persevere tonight. The fate of Ukraine is being decided right now. The night will be hard, very hard, but there will be a morning,
https://twitter.com/maxseddon
1000 miles to the West and it could be my family in this nightmare. It is that close to home. Under the same circumstances I would like to think the cavalry would be coming to rescue me.
Doesn't mean anyone wants it, or is against there being ceasefires, but ceasefires and treaties only hold if aggressors know the cost of breaking them is not worth it, and that does mean the poor Ukrainians and their leaders will fight, and may die, in order to purchase such a ceasefire. If the Ukrainian annoucement is correct their fighting and dying has already opened up a possibility of such an event which Putin's manic talk earlier would have suggested was implausible. Similar mettle would open up more opportunities.
That't not bloodthirsty, it's not eager, it seems pretty pragmatic to me. People know they are not on the frontlines with the Ukrainians, none of us are, but these events do have geopolitical consequences, there's nothing untoward in contemplating it, and supporting defensive efforts being robust is not to enjoy it.
I’ll never share your view of armchair PB generals enjoying the martyrdom of Klitchko and Zelenskiy. I’ll say a prayer for your souls too.
The National Bank of Ukraine has opened a special account to raise funds for the Ukrainian Army. Anyone from any country can donate.
The account is multi-currency. It is opened for transfers of funds from international partners and donors, any person as well as from Ukrainian business and citizens. Details listed below are also on the bank’s official website.
🇬🇧 For donations in GBP:
SWIFT Code NBU: NBUA UA UX
Bank of England, London
SWIFT Code: BKENGB2L
Account: 40000982
Threadneedle Street, London EC2R 8AH, UK
IBAN: UA843000010000000047330992708
Multilingualism is much commoner in the world than we realise in England. People in Africa are frequently multilingual.
I've seen what they did in Syria.
From Wiki:
"On 14 June 2014, a Ukrainian Air Force Il-76 was shot down by ground fire from pro-Russian separatists while on approach to landing at Luhansk, resulting in the deaths of 40 soldiers and nine crew members on board"
Is that a fair metric?
Perhaps Jingping will be gently guiding his little Russian doll towards the treaty table?
The only way of knowing what it was though is whether this was one aircraft...or one of several.
@IAPonomarenko
JUST IN: In Donbas, a Ukrainian S-300 system downs a Russian Sukhoi Su-25 and a helicopter at midnight, Ukraine’s government says
https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497349261612232705
Anyway I've been up since 5 so i ought to go to bed. Hoping not to wake up to some bad news tomorrow.
After the some of the examples set already, it would be exceptionally difficult to abandon your friends. As far as I am aware, soldiers fight for those around them, not their country/leaders.
Personally, I'd have been first on the bus to Poland.
https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1497344479094792195?t=nWo6OPJdEgvfT763Xg-Aew&s=19
20km SW of Kyiv.
Both are evil, hubristic men. Scargill lost because he was a demagogue and arrogant thinking that he could impose his will on his perceived followers.
I wonder if Putin will make a similar mistake?
Putin has expressed his admiration for the USSR. Scargill remains a fanboy of Stalin.
Although his name is Xi.
Straight after their wedding, they both joined the local Territorial Defense Center to help efforts to defend the country.
🇺🇦 https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1497350707598475268/photo/1
Putin is losing the information war big time and morale must be plummeting. He'll have to go in big to save face.
Now there might be a good reason for that, namely Putin is likely to retaliate with a nuclear strike. Meanwhile, women, children and babies are being massacred and we look on helplessly.
I am a dove, but this looks wrong.
I believe similar stories surfaced in the Crimean invasion/
But there doesn't seem much overt enthusiasm for this from your average Russian citizen. And the grunts are just that of course.
There's lots of Ukrainian video of captured troops saying exactly this. No surprise they aren't making much progress if true. They probably aren't even expecting resistance. Let alone live fire.
We are providing further weapons and are very much favoured by them
Lunatic and Isis are yet to be confirmed. Plenty of the former in here, not sure we have many of the latter.
If Putin invades a NATO nation we may well be in World War 3, so we would end up doing quite a lot then!
I meet people from all corners of Scotland and whenever I try to engage in political discussions they always say "no, Big_G speaks for me".
At some point Putin goes. The sun might come out, the wind blow fair from the East. Quiet will flow the Don.
But all those who die between now and the ceasefire will never know this place. Whilst their families tears will fall forever.
I don’t expect or demand everyone to agree with me. But surely you can understand the point I am making?
But you have all put doubts in my mind Ukraine are definitely losing this to the saddest outcome, so I will shut up, log out, and see what tomorrow brings. 🙋♀️
I speak German, which is far less useful, though I can manage holiday Italian, Spanish and a few pleasantries in Chichewa.
*No way connected to my qualification to teach it. Reasonable rates.
Treat claim with caution.
Additionally we're one of 4(?) countries who have agreed to send Ukraine all that they request, alongside Poland, Estonia, and another. Our intelligence is also remarkably useful, with one of the heads of the UK security services going on record to claim credit for thew accurate predictions.
John Terry is also a regular visitor, as is Ronaldo. Plenty of Russian oligarchs too, hence Dubai abstained on the resolution
But we really are falling short on the sanctions. We are the country who could really hit the Russian elite hard. We don't seem to have the will.
We should.
But intervention after fighting has started involves a far greater risk of nuclear escalation that would fighting to defend an attack NATO territory. Putin’s paranoia guarantees that.
The US simply isn’t going to risk it.
Meanwhile, the elite are free to swan around Kensington. With their kids in boarding schools.