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Betting on a Conservative poll lead before the first of March – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,064

    TOPPING said:



    Which latter thinking was at the heart of the British catastrophic failures in Afghan and Iraq. Together with a use it or lose it attitude and failing to stand up to the politicians when it came to telling truth to power.

    Perhaps Lt-Gen Palmer (if it is him you are talking about) should take a long hard look at himself in the mirror about such an opinion.

    No, it was an uncle of mine (now deceased) - had a good career (he got an MC as the lead spotter at Arnhem for the one battery that got in range of the final bridge) but never at the advice-to-politicians level. I wouldn't quote living relatives (and suggest you shouldn't speculatively either - a bit like doxxing).
    Not doxxing at all; don't do a Charles on me. You post non-anonymously and mentioned a military relative. I then did the math. Incorrectly as it turned out but not preposterously. If you don't want such speculation then say "a friend" or something. Your point would remain valid. Or don't say anything.

    Anthony Palmer that said was at the advice-to-politicians level. At the time of Afghan and Iraq. So I am comfortable about my point about the attitude of such military folk whether your cousin was one of them or not.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,789
    The Chinese embassy staying put in Kiev signifies some coordination between Moscow and Beijing. Either they have been assured there will be no direct attack on the Ukrainian capital or they have been assured that any attack will avoid them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,092
    Dura_Ace said:



    One of my British Army relatives admitted that, much though he preferred the idea of world peace, at a personal level he enjoyed actually getting into a fighting war - "you don't want to spend your whole life training and never find out if it worked".

    I fucking loved it at the time although the butcher's bill eventually came due.
    I think your tale has been a calming foil to some of the very few gung-ho posters, who have now all left the building.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,212
    geoffw said:

    The Chinese embassy staying put in Kiev signifies some coordination between Moscow and Beijing. Either they have been assured there will be no direct attack on the Ukrainian capital or they have been assured that any attack will avoid them.

    The western embassies in Kiev would be targets for invading Russians. The Chinese embassy, not so much.

    Let’s all hope and pray it doesn’t come to that.
  • Mr. Sandpit, it was very impressive that Grosjean escaped from his mega crash with only burns to his hands.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,365
    Looks like the sharp cloudburst organising slightly quicker than forecast. Fully organised north of Man now, with a line forming from Moffat towards Wooler. Looks like NE and Cumbria will not be left out
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    Utter bollocks from Cleverly. He should resign if he receives one.
    He should resign anyway. All this talk of fines is just shifting the Overton window.
    Why? The Overton window was always that rule makers can't be rule breakers. If he's received a fine, it means he's broken the rules, so he should go.

    If he's not broken the rules (which I find exceedingly unlikely) then he's not broken the rules and he's not lied to Parliament. In which case, why should he go?
    Same with a speeding fine. Amiright?
    We've been over this before: If the PM had introduced the speeding rules himself, then daily been reprimanding the nation saying how important it is that the speeding rules have to be obeyed - then yes.

    This isn't a parking ticket and you're disingenuous to try to conflate the two.
    Exactly. We have been over this and you were wrong.

    You said "rules". If he has broken the rules, all of which his government "made" (and if they didn't draft them then they have a superior obligation surely to follow them), then he should resign. Which includes speeding fines.
    He should walk, like an old-school English cricketer. But he should have walked already.

    Bozza's approach is more... Modern, or Australian, and not in a good way.
    He's a stark Warnering to the rest of us about the inadequacy of our democratic safeguards.
    Have you no Shane?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,212
    edited February 2022

    Mr. Sandpit, it was very impressive that Grosjean escaped from his mega crash with only burns to his hands.

    I’d never been more sure that I’d seen someone killed, than with that accident. The whole car ablaze and the cockpit seemingly disintegrated. But somehow, he not only survived the crash but remained conscious for long enough to get himself out of the car.

    Now, about that George Medal for Dr Ian Roberts…
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,839
    TOPPING said:



    Not doxxing at all; don't do a Charles on me.

    He didn't go "Full Charles" as he didn't casually mention how he was related to Elrond and Pat Phoenix.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532
    edited February 2022
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    The system of "indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris" among the non-politicians in government is far older.

    There was horror after HMS Captain turned over, in 1870, when Reed stated that he would tell the truth at the court-martial. This would have nailed a number of permanent officials to the wall. It took quite a bit of effort to stop Reed (and Spencer Robinson).....

    The same horror was heard when it was suggested that an enquiry into Rotherham et. al. would include naming names and linking them to specific actions.

    The politicians have applied this to themselves, now. Bit late in the day, but hey....
  • Scott_xP said:

    Not so much failed to play, as waited for it to play out. Which requires the Met/Grey reports.

    My local MP replied to my letter with this

    "While acknowledging the seriousness of this matter, I do believe it is important that, in the meantime, the Government does not become paralysed and is still able to prioritise delivery, as well as being able to respond to events whenever they arise. For example, we face the largest military build-up in Europe in decades on the border of Ukraine. It is right that the focus of our Prime Minister, who visited Ukraine on 1 February, is on peace in Europe, rather than party politics at home."

    The problem with that of course is that instead of concentrating on Ukraine BoZo was closeted with his lawyers working on his Partygate excuses
    Well, my local MP has put his letter in....
    Mine has said that he will discuss it with the chairman of his association first, and I know that my nearby mp has not done so yet as they cannot coalesce around a candidate
    Alun is waiting for the Gray Report before deciding not to submit a letter.
    I think it is becoming extremely unlikely there are sufficient conservative mps for Boris to lose a vonc and in the end they are responsible for their own futures
    BigG. as you know I am an anyone but Conservative voter, which I know is rather irrational. However, I would be comfortable for Johnson to be replaced by any one of Hunt, Sunak, Tugendhadt or Mordaunt. I have left out Truss as she is cut from the same cloth as Johnson.

    I wouldn't vote for these people against a reasonably centrist Opposition as I am opposed to their key ideology. Nonetheless wouldn't it be reassuring to be navigated through this potentially lengthy crisis by someone with at least an element of gravitas.

    The moment for PM Benny Hill has passed.
    So would I but it seems his mps do not agree, so be it on them
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    Utter bollocks from Cleverly. He should resign if he receives one.
    He should resign anyway. All this talk of fines is just shifting the Overton window.
    Why? The Overton window was always that rule makers can't be rule breakers. If he's received a fine, it means he's broken the rules, so he should go.

    If he's not broken the rules (which I find exceedingly unlikely) then he's not broken the rules and he's not lied to Parliament. In which case, why should he go?
    Same with a speeding fine. Amiright?
    We've been over this before: If the PM had introduced the speeding rules himself, then daily been reprimanding the nation saying how important it is that the speeding rules have to be obeyed - then yes.

    This isn't a parking ticket and you're disingenuous to try to conflate the two.
    Exactly. We have been over this and you were wrong.

    You said "rules". If he has broken the rules, all of which his government "made" (and if they didn't draft them then they have a superior obligation surely to follow them), then he should resign. Which includes speeding fines.
    He should walk, like an old-school English cricketer. But he should have walked already.

    Bozza's approach is more... Modern, or Australian, and not in a good way.
    He's a stark Warnering to the rest of us about the inadequacy of our democratic safeguards.
    Have you no Shane?
    No, I've just got back from Chappell so I had to make something up quickly.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Same reason that the Chinese Embassy in Serbia stayed put when the Americans got serious in the former Yugoslavia, probably.

    Intelligence gathering on the latest war....
    At a price!

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Mystery-of-1999-US-stealth-jet-shootdown-returns-with-twist
  • “Joyous & Civic”

    Have been stuck in an echo chamber for 24 hours. Went something like this:
    Me: “Shame about Sarah Smith”
    “She’s a liar”
    “Doubt it: but anyway, the misogyny & abuse…”
    “Was no misogyny or abuse”
    “Here’s proof of that abuse”
    “But… Did I mention she’s a liar?”
    🤦🏻‍♂️🤷‍♂️


    https://twitter.com/roddyqc/status/1495354864636989442?s=21
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pro_Rata said:

    Looks like the sharp cloudburst organising slightly quicker than forecast. Fully organised north of Man now, with a line forming from Moffat towards Wooler. Looks like NE and Cumbria will not be left out

    23c with sunny intervals on Sao nicolau, Cape Verde.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,550

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Chinese diplomats are considered expendable ?
  • Vice President Kamala Harris, echoing President Joe Biden's comments Friday, tells CNN's @NatashaBertrand in Munich "We believe that Putin has made his decision, period," to invade Ukraine, adding "nothing's being held back" in sharing intelligence with allies.

    https://twitter.com/DJJudd/status/1495356066854547456
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995
    Nigelb said:

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Chinese diplomats are considered expendable ?
    Didn't the one in Belgrade get accidentally bombed by the Americans?

    Hopefully that won't be a problem in this case, of course!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502

    What is Putin getting out of it?

    Firstly he's damaged the Ukrainian economy and reminded them that their freedom from Moscow comes at a price - the threat of military action. He's also helped to prop up mini me Lukashenko who's been under pressure from protesters who believe that he rigged the 2020 election.

    He's de facto annexed Belarus while everyone was looking at Ukraine.
  • Another excellent performance from Wes Streeting on Sunday Morning Show.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995
    dixiedean said:

    What is Putin getting out of it?

    Firstly he's damaged the Ukrainian economy and reminded them that their freedom from Moscow comes at a price - the threat of military action. He's also helped to prop up mini me Lukashenko who's been under pressure from protesters who believe that he rigged the 2020 election.

    He's de facto annexed Belarus while everyone was looking at Ukraine.
    Doesn't mean he doesn't want Ukraine too, of course.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Same reason that the Chinese Embassy in Serbia stayed put when the Americans got serious in the former Yugoslavia, probably.

    Intelligence gathering on the latest war....
    At a price!

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Mystery-of-1999-US-stealth-jet-shootdown-returns-with-twist
    The bit in that story (which has bounced around for a while) that is fairly unbelievable, is that there was some kind of transponder in the wreckage that was transmitting it's location from a basement. That Jason Bourne tech, not real world.

    The F-117 tech was largely obsolete by then. It's also worth remembering that the actual materials used in the aircraft for radar absorption weren't that secret - alot of it was reheated (ha) stuff from the D-21 program. Where examples crashed in both China and Russia.

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532
    dixiedean said:

    What is Putin getting out of it?

    Firstly he's damaged the Ukrainian economy and reminded them that their freedom from Moscow comes at a price - the threat of military action. He's also helped to prop up mini me Lukashenko who's been under pressure from protesters who believe that he rigged the 2020 election.

    He's de facto annexed Belarus while everyone was looking at Ukraine.
    That's actually a good point - and one that will give Putin some nice Brownie Points with the Greater Russian Nationalists.

    Could it be enough for the climb down? My guess is that it isn't, sadly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,593

    “Joyous & Civic”

    Have been stuck in an echo chamber for 24 hours. Went something like this:
    Me: “Shame about Sarah Smith”
    “She’s a liar”
    “Doubt it: but anyway, the misogyny & abuse…”
    “Was no misogyny or abuse”
    “Here’s proof of that abuse”
    “But… Did I mention she’s a liar?”
    🤦🏻‍♂️🤷‍♂️


    https://twitter.com/roddyqc/status/1495354864636989442?s=21

    Our daily denigrate Scotland piece from Lady Haw Haw. Hope they are paying you well.
  • Mr. Dean, jein. The dictator in Belarus undoubtedly welcomes the Russian soldiers, though the electorate, who voted otherwise, might not feel quite the same.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,526
    RT head Simonyan:

    "2008 Olympics — Liberation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia

    2014 Olympics — Return of Crimea [to Russia]

    2022 Olympics — Fill in the correct answer"


    https://twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1495331777149341696
  • Wow. I see Leavers are still fretting about the Brexit referendum. Move on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Chinese diplomats are considered expendable ?
    Didn't the one in Belgrade get accidentally bombed by the Americans?

    Hopefully that won't be a problem in this case, of course!
    Accidentally? or on purpose?

    According to one story, the Chinese were using the embassy as a test site for electronic warfare, and were "closing the loop" by feeding data to the Serbians. If true, this would explain why the Chinese made such a small protest about the bombing - doing that crossed a line and made them a co-belligerent.

    According to another (mentioned in this thread) they were collecting bit from the shot down F-117. The main argument against that is that kind of stuff is expected by embassies/spooks in a war. American spooks in various conflicts zones have always been happy to buy wreckage and cart hit home via at the embassy.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,116
    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,304

    Wow. I see Leavers are still fretting about the Brexit referendum. Move on.

    Diehard Leavers and remainers. It’s tedious.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,789
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    Cui bono?

  • Hope HM is alright.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    Ugh. Even with what I think was just a mild dose two weeks ago and despite being a fairly fit and comparatively young man I didn't find it fun.

    As you say, this could be very bad...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Same reason that the Chinese Embassy in Serbia stayed put when the Americans got serious in the former Yugoslavia, probably.

    Intelligence gathering on the latest war....
    At a price!

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Mystery-of-1999-US-stealth-jet-shootdown-returns-with-twist
    The bit in that story (which has bounced around for a while) that is fairly unbelievable, is that there was some kind of transponder in the wreckage that was transmitting it's location from a basement. That Jason Bourne tech, not real world.

    The F-117 tech was largely obsolete by then. It's also worth remembering that the actual materials used in the aircraft for radar absorption weren't that secret - alot of it was reheated (ha) stuff from the D-21 program. Where examples crashed in both China and Russia.

    image
    Well, you can put trackers on a high-end sports car....

    But yes, things that make you go "Hmmmmmm........"

    (But I don't think there's much doubt the Chinese Embassy was targeted, which is such an egregious thing for the Yanks to have done, there must have been something in the wreckage they were very worried about losing....)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,683
    edited February 2022

    Vice President Kamala Harris, echoing President Joe Biden's comments Friday, tells CNN's @NatashaBertrand in Munich "We believe that Putin has made his decision, period," to invade Ukraine, adding "nothing's being held back" in sharing intelligence with allies.

    https://twitter.com/DJJudd/status/1495356066854547456

    *off topic, though great to have a TSE thread again

    Is it really all down to Putin making his mind up? If it was London or Washington and rest of war bunker said no, it wouldn’t matter what the leaders preference was? Why would it be different in Moscow? What I’m practically saying is, if Putin, and those agreeing with him were asked by the generals, what’s the clarity of the mission we can achieve and withdraw without it being open ended or creeping into something else, and Putin and his allies can’t convincingly define that, then surely it won’t happen?

    If at some point the Ukraine leadership want a face to face with Russian counterpart’s, what would the Ukrainians hope to get from that? They would use it just to emphasise how belligerent their position is, like how Liz Truss used her Moscow trip?

    These are two good questions for this latest Sunday in pre war build up?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,235
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    So that suggests the night in hospital a few months ago was not COVID related.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,137
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Looks like the sharp cloudburst organising slightly quicker than forecast. Fully organised north of Man now, with a line forming from Moffat towards Wooler. Looks like NE and Cumbria will not be left out

    23c with sunny intervals on Sao nicolau, Cape Verde.
    Denizens of this board from last week may remember be whittling about whether my wife and kids' flight back from the Canaries would be able to land, given storm Eunice. Happy to report that - despite the outbound flight on Friday being delayed by hours and hours and hours, the inbound flight, which presumably was using a different aeroplane, landed bumping but on time; and despite anecdata about lengthy post-Brexit queues getting through immigration and of prohibitive parking charges at Manchester Airport, I had them back home 40 minutes after the wheels touched the tarmac having shelled out an actually-fairly-reasonable-considering £6 in parking charges. Almost-post-covid Manchester Airport arrivals looked actually not unlike Terminal 2 of last time I flew in 2014.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,550

    Dura_Ace said:



    One of my British Army relatives admitted that, much though he preferred the idea of world peace, at a personal level he enjoyed actually getting into a fighting war - "you don't want to spend your whole life training and never find out if it worked".

    I fucking loved it at the time although the butcher's bill eventually came due.
    I think your tale has been a calming foil to some of the very few gung-ho posters, who have now all left the building.
    It’s a paradox.
    The entire point of our forces in Europe for the last seventy odd years have been to deter armed conflict, but without individuals ready or even keen to fight, such deterrence doesn’t exist.

    Our Ukraine policy is not greatly different. Obviously it’s the Ukrainians who will be the ones in the firing line, but the belief is that supplying them with sufficient weapons increases the cost to Putin and makes invasion less likely.

    Ukraine will fight a Putin invasion anyway, as both their government and popular opinion has made very clear.
    You might disagree, but I think that without western intervention, Putin would likely have invaded already.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,212
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    Forgive the cynicism, but I reckon she tested positive a week ago and is now past the worst of it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,304
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    Forgive the cynicism, but I reckon she tested positive a week ago and is now past the worst of it.
    Hopefully it was Charles who passed it on when they met about a week ago. So she’s over the worst.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Same reason that the Chinese Embassy in Serbia stayed put when the Americans got serious in the former Yugoslavia, probably.

    Intelligence gathering on the latest war....
    At a price!

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Mystery-of-1999-US-stealth-jet-shootdown-returns-with-twist
    The bit in that story (which has bounced around for a while) that is fairly unbelievable, is that there was some kind of transponder in the wreckage that was transmitting it's location from a basement. That Jason Bourne tech, not real world.

    The F-117 tech was largely obsolete by then. It's also worth remembering that the actual materials used in the aircraft for radar absorption weren't that secret - alot of it was reheated (ha) stuff from the D-21 program. Where examples crashed in both China and Russia.

    image
    Well, you can put trackers on a high-end sports car....

    But yes, things that make you go "Hmmmmmm........"

    (But I don't think there's much doubt the Chinese Embassy was targeted, which is such an egregious thing for the Yanks to have done, there must have been something in the wreckage they were very worried about losing....)
    Enough power to broadcast from a basement? That is still one hell of a box. In stealth aircraft, the considerations was in removing as many potential accidental broadcast systems as possible. In the B2 they went to the extent of having a master go-to-war switch which shut off everything that could radiate. In the submarine world, it was quite common for crews to weld the emergency beacons down, rather than have them accidentally go off.

    A theory that makes more sense is that the Chinese Embassy was involved in active electronic warfare/intelligence and providing data to the Serbs.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,064
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    Forgive the cynicism, but I reckon she tested positive a week ago and is now past the worst of it.
    Not cynicism, good Monarch management if the case.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,570

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    There are three possibilities:

    1. They know/believe there won’t be an invasion/it won’t target Kyiv

    2. They know/believe Kyiv will be attached but their embassy will be safe

    3. They don’t know and are ignoring the risk

    I discount 3. So the point that Rachmaninov made doesn’t tell us much at all
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,075
    edited February 2022
    *Deleted* Already posted
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,116
    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,020
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    Forgive the cynicism, but I reckon she tested positive a week ago and is now past the worst of it.
    Hopefully it was Charles who passed it on when they met about a week ago. So she’s over the worst.
    They announced Charles had tested positive on the 10th, two days after meeting HMQ on the 8th. So if HMQ caught Covid from the Prince of Wales, then she was exposed 12 days ago, and it's very likely that she tested positive some time ago, and we're only hearing about it now because she's getting better.

    Of course, entirely possible that she caught it from someone else.
  • The recent pensions fiasco shows how essential it is to get our arguments right prior to the #indyref2 campaign. Last weeks appeal court decision illustrates what happens when the culture of #nodebate undermines policy making.

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1495322624574074883?s=21
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    I don't agree with this theory that Johnson is lucky. Everything he has done for the last two years has gone pear-shaped.

    Even his end of covid self-isolation announcement gets taken over by news that the head of state tests positive.

    It has been one serious of cock-ups and disasters after another with him.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,605
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    It's surprising that things work as well as they do. How we have ended up as one of the most prosperous and pleasant parts of the world to inhabit, when, as you point out, the quality of our leadership is so mediocre?

    Perhaps it's true that even mediocrity is an achievement.

    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    If a triple-dosed 95 year old can catch Covid and not become seriously ill then, Covid certainly is over as a major threat to public health.
    As I'm sure you know that's a non sequitur and a lie.

    Some people get it worse than others. As you know full well.

    But hopefully the Queen will be okay.
  • Draghi and Italy - dependent on Russia for gas - throw a major spanner in the talk of an EU united front to punish Putin with tough sanctions. So much for “whatever it takes”.

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1494763381450067968?s=21
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,116
    Heathener said:

    I don't agree with this theory that Johnson is lucky. Everything he has done for the last two years has gone pear-shaped.

    Even his end of covid self-isolation announcement gets taken over by news that the head of state tests positive.

    It has been one serious of cock-ups and disasters after another with him.

    but the crowd are still cheering...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,083
    malcolmg said:

    “Joyous & Civic”

    Have been stuck in an echo chamber for 24 hours. Went something like this:
    Me: “Shame about Sarah Smith”
    “She’s a liar”
    “Doubt it: but anyway, the misogyny & abuse…”
    “Was no misogyny or abuse”
    “Here’s proof of that abuse”
    “But… Did I mention she’s a liar?”
    🤦🏻‍♂️🤷‍♂️


    https://twitter.com/roddyqc/status/1495354864636989442?s=21

    Our daily denigrate Scotland piece from Lady Haw Haw. Hope they are paying you well.
    Only daily? I thought she Uncle Tommed us at least every couple of hours.
    Edit. Every 21 minutes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    edited February 2022
    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,235
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    You wouldn’t be wishing the worst because you think it might be good for the zero covidiots, would you?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2022

    malcolmg said:

    “Joyous & Civic”

    Have been stuck in an echo chamber for 24 hours. Went something like this:
    Me: “Shame about Sarah Smith”
    “She’s a liar”
    “Doubt it: but anyway, the misogyny & abuse…”
    “Was no misogyny or abuse”
    “Here’s proof of that abuse”
    “But… Did I mention she’s a liar?”
    🤦🏻‍♂️🤷‍♂️


    https://twitter.com/roddyqc/status/1495354864636989442?s=21

    Our daily denigrate Scotland piece from Lady Haw Haw. Hope they are paying you well.
    Only daily? I thought she Uncle Tommed us at least every couple of hours.
    Edit. Every 21 minutes.
    The last one was a tweet from Joanna Cherry, MP.
  • dixiedean said:

    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.

    The only thing is, haven't sanctions already been imposed, over the Belarus question ?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,683

    Draghi and Italy - dependent on Russia for gas - throw a major spanner in the talk of an EU united front to punish Putin with tough sanctions. So much for “whatever it takes”.

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1494763381450067968?s=21

    I’m bored of saying Putin hasn’t got lucky with this division, but has for years plotted it whilst we oblivious went about our business - like the Martians plotting invasion in HG Wells book.
  • Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman, in comments that seem to have been recorded on Friday: "Tensions have been ramped up to the maximum [on] the contact line" in the Donbas.

    "Any spark, any unplanned event or minor provocation could lead to irreversable consequences."


    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1495368901932290049
  • tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    So that suggests the night in hospital a few months ago was not COVID related.
    If it was a few months ago it is possible that was Delta and this is Omicron or BA2.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited February 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    You wouldn’t be wishing the worst because you think it might be good for the zero covidiots, would you?
    The only idiots I see around are the right wing boneheads.

    But then capitalists have never cared if they kill other people on their way to line their pockets.

    The Herald of Free Enterprise. Cut corners, shave time, make profit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099

    Gideon Rachman just made a very good point on twitter. The Chinese Embassy in Kiev is staying put. Make of that what you will.

    Same reason that the Chinese Embassy in Serbia stayed put when the Americans got serious in the former Yugoslavia, probably.

    Intelligence gathering on the latest war....
    At a price!

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Mystery-of-1999-US-stealth-jet-shootdown-returns-with-twist
    The bit in that story (which has bounced around for a while) that is fairly unbelievable, is that there was some kind of transponder in the wreckage that was transmitting it's location from a basement. That Jason Bourne tech, not real world.

    The F-117 tech was largely obsolete by then. It's also worth remembering that the actual materials used in the aircraft for radar absorption weren't that secret - alot of it was reheated (ha) stuff from the D-21 program. Where examples crashed in both China and Russia.

    image
    Well, you can put trackers on a high-end sports car....

    But yes, things that make you go "Hmmmmmm........"

    (But I don't think there's much doubt the Chinese Embassy was targeted, which is such an egregious thing for the Yanks to have done, there must have been something in the wreckage they were very worried about losing....)
    Enough power to broadcast from a basement? That is still one hell of a box. In stealth aircraft, the considerations was in removing as many potential accidental broadcast systems as possible. In the B2 they went to the extent of having a master go-to-war switch which shut off everything that could radiate. In the submarine world, it was quite common for crews to weld the emergency beacons down, rather than have them accidentally go off.

    A theory that makes more sense is that the Chinese Embassy was involved in active electronic warfare/intelligence and providing data to the Serbs.
    Of course, easier to broadcast if the building above has been removed by five bombs,...

    Either way, it was a hell of a provocative move to bomb an embassy - a move that Clinton must have sanctioned. The relatively muted outrage from the Chinese suggests their Embassy wasn't just a passive player in events - and the US had detailed intelligence. Perhaps the Russians (and the Americans!) have been given better assurances in Kiev...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502

    dixiedean said:

    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.

    The only thing is, haven't sanctions already been imposed, over the Belarus question ?
    On Belarus yes.
    On Putin for invading? I don't think so.
    Mostly cos I'm not sure most have twigged that's what's happened yet.
  • Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
  • dixiedean said:

    What is Putin getting out of it?

    Firstly he's damaged the Ukrainian economy and reminded them that their freedom from Moscow comes at a price - the threat of military action. He's also helped to prop up mini me Lukashenko who's been under pressure from protesters who believe that he rigged the 2020 election.

    He's de facto annexed Belarus while everyone was looking at Ukraine.
    That's actually a good point - and one that will give Putin some nice Brownie Points with the Greater Russian Nationalists.

    Could it be enough for the climb down? My guess is that it isn't, sadly.
    Surely Belarus was already all-but annexed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,605
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    You wouldn’t be wishing the worst because you think it might be good for the zero covidiots, would you?
    I think that question answers itself.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57
    16/12/2021 254.50 92.29 28.29
    17/12/2021 273.83 94.29 30.00
    18/12/2021 303.83 96.29 30.71
    19/12/2021 331.33 101.57 29.57
    20/12/2021 393.50 106.43 30.00
    21/12/2021 456.17 115.57 27.28
    22/12/2021 522.83 126.86 29.86
    23/12/2021 595.00 138.29 31.71
    24/12/2021 667.83 146.29 32.15
    25/12/2021 681.34 160.57 32.57
    26/12/2021 754.00 170.71 34.29
    27/12/2021 910.50 189.57 34.86
    28/12/2021 1108.34 214.00 38.72
    29/12/2021 1405.50 244.29 38.71
    30/12/2021 1645.17 275.00 41.86
    31/12/2021 1797.50 294.00 43.57
    01/01/2022 1895.00 315.29 46.86
    02/01/2022 1993.50 337.14 49.42
    03/01/2022 2072.34 353.14 52.43
    04/01/2022 2175.83 359.71 55.57
    05/01/2022 2074.83 362.71 59.43
    06/01/2022 1964.83 351.14 61.15
    07/01/2022 1920.16 351.00 66.43
    08/01/2022 1903.50 349.00 72.58
    09/01/2022 1830.67 359.00 79.43
    10/01/2022 1794.66 362.71 86.43
    11/01/2022 1641.00 366.14 92.00
    12/01/2022 1559.33 365.43 95.57
    13/01/2022 1527.00 369.14 99.85
    14/01/2022 1499.50 377.57 102.72
    15/01/2022 1466.00 377.14 103.86
    16/01/2022 1429.50 367.71 104.71
    17/01/2022 1380.17 360.71 105.43
    18/01/2022 1330.00 350.43 107.15
    19/01/2022 1294.84 346.86 110.29
    20/01/2022 1250.83 345.14 111.14
    21/01/2022 1212.50 335.71 112.71
    22/01/2022 1195.00 323.71 114.00
    23/01/2022 1173.17 315.86 114.00
    24/01/2022 1128.00 305.57 113.86
    25/01/2022 1105.16 304.86 109.15
    26/01/2022 1091.50 304.43 108.85
    27/01/2022 1078.33 300.86 108.43
    28/01/2022 1077.84 299.71 106.71
    29/01/2022 1078.17 307.00 105.71
    30/01/2022 1080.16 299.43 104.86
    31/01/2022 1056.00 296.14 101.71
    01/02/2022 1038.83 295.29 105.57
    02/02/2022 1025.50 283.00 103.72
    03/02/2022 1002.00 276.86 100.28
    04/02/2022 977.34 272.00 94.85
    05/02/2022 959.00 264.57 90.71
    06/02/2022 952.17 269.14 87.15
    07/02/2022 934.34 268.43 83.00
    08/02/2022 920.50 259.57 76.15
    09/02/2022 880.16 260.00 70.57
    10/02/2022 857.00 259.71 67.72
    11/02/2022 827.17 254.86 65.14
    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,235
    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    You wouldn’t be wishing the worst because you think it might be good for the zero covidiots, would you?
    The only idiots I see around are the right wing boneheads.

    But then capitalists have never cared if they kill other people on their way to line their pockets.

    The Herald of Free Enterprise. Cut corners, shave time, make profit.
    The Herald, really? I’d have thought Railtrack would make for a better example of capitalists compromising safety.

    Anyway, went London for the first time in a month yesterday. Not so many people wearing masks on the tube.

    It’s over.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,020
    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    If a triple-dosed 95 year old can catch Covid and not become seriously ill then, Covid certainly is over as a major threat to public health.
    As I'm sure you know that's a non sequitur and a lie.

    Some people get it worse than others. As you know full well.

    But hopefully the Queen will be okay.
    Sure, okay, a single person's experience with Covid tells us very little, but "lie"? That's very strong.

    And it would be seen as symbolic either way (which is precisely why Scott constructed his comment the way he did).

    And regardless, I think that three doses of the vaccine do mean that Covid is now not a major threat to public health. The Emergency is over.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,605

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
    You have to wonder how on earth we ended up ruling a quarter of the planet for a hundred years, given the number of corrupt, cowardly, and incompetent people in senior positions.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,064

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57
    16/12/2021 254.50 92.29 28.29
    17/12/2021 273.83 94.29 30.00
    18/12/2021 303.83 96.29 30.71
    19/12/2021 331.33 101.57 29.57
    20/12/2021 393.50 106.43 30.00
    21/12/2021 456.17 115.57 27.28
    22/12/2021 522.83 126.86 29.86
    23/12/2021 595.00 138.29 31.71
    24/12/2021 667.83 146.29 32.15
    25/12/2021 681.34 160.57 32.57
    26/12/2021 754.00 170.71 34.29
    27/12/2021 910.50 189.57 34.86
    28/12/2021 1108.34 214.00 38.72
    29/12/2021 1405.50 244.29 38.71
    30/12/2021 1645.17 275.00 41.86
    31/12/2021 1797.50 294.00 43.57
    01/01/2022 1895.00 315.29 46.86
    02/01/2022 1993.50 337.14 49.42
    03/01/2022 2072.34 353.14 52.43
    04/01/2022 2175.83 359.71 55.57
    05/01/2022 2074.83 362.71 59.43
    06/01/2022 1964.83 351.14 61.15
    07/01/2022 1920.16 351.00 66.43
    08/01/2022 1903.50 349.00 72.58
    09/01/2022 1830.67 359.00 79.43
    10/01/2022 1794.66 362.71 86.43
    11/01/2022 1641.00 366.14 92.00
    12/01/2022 1559.33 365.43 95.57
    13/01/2022 1527.00 369.14 99.85
    14/01/2022 1499.50 377.57 102.72
    15/01/2022 1466.00 377.14 103.86
    16/01/2022 1429.50 367.71 104.71
    17/01/2022 1380.17 360.71 105.43
    18/01/2022 1330.00 350.43 107.15
    19/01/2022 1294.84 346.86 110.29
    20/01/2022 1250.83 345.14 111.14
    21/01/2022 1212.50 335.71 112.71
    22/01/2022 1195.00 323.71 114.00
    23/01/2022 1173.17 315.86 114.00
    24/01/2022 1128.00 305.57 113.86
    25/01/2022 1105.16 304.86 109.15
    26/01/2022 1091.50 304.43 108.85
    27/01/2022 1078.33 300.86 108.43
    28/01/2022 1077.84 299.71 106.71
    29/01/2022 1078.17 307.00 105.71
    30/01/2022 1080.16 299.43 104.86
    31/01/2022 1056.00 296.14 101.71
    01/02/2022 1038.83 295.29 105.57
    02/02/2022 1025.50 283.00 103.72
    03/02/2022 1002.00 276.86 100.28
    04/02/2022 977.34 272.00 94.85
    05/02/2022 959.00 264.57 90.71
    06/02/2022 952.17 269.14 87.15
    07/02/2022 934.34 268.43 83.00
    08/02/2022 920.50 259.57 76.15
    09/02/2022 880.16 260.00 70.57
    10/02/2022 857.00 259.71 67.72
    11/02/2022 827.17 254.86 65.14
    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
    So around a 7% CFR?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57

    Snip…

    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
    Eyeballing it - roughly 10% death rate?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,020
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.

    The only thing is, haven't sanctions already been imposed, over the Belarus question ?
    On Belarus yes.
    On Putin for invading? I don't think so.
    Mostly cos I'm not sure most have twigged that's what's happened yet.
    It's a bit different if the occupiers are invited in.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099
    dixiedean said:

    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.

    So that's where Putin's 4D chess board is placed?

    But Belarus isn't exactly capturing the Queen that Ukraine would be.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,064
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57
    16/12/2021 254.50 92.29 28.29
    17/12/2021 273.83 94.29 30.00
    18/12/2021 303.83 96.29 30.71
    19/12/2021 331.33 101.57 29.57
    20/12/2021 393.50 106.43 30.00
    21/12/2021 456.17 115.57 27.28
    22/12/2021 522.83 126.86 29.86
    23/12/2021 595.00 138.29 31.71
    24/12/2021 667.83 146.29 32.15
    25/12/2021 681.34 160.57 32.57
    26/12/2021 754.00 170.71 34.29
    27/12/2021 910.50 189.57 34.86
    28/12/2021 1108.34 214.00 38.72
    29/12/2021 1405.50 244.29 38.71
    30/12/2021 1645.17 275.00 41.86
    31/12/2021 1797.50 294.00 43.57
    01/01/2022 1895.00 315.29 46.86
    02/01/2022 1993.50 337.14 49.42
    03/01/2022 2072.34 353.14 52.43
    04/01/2022 2175.83 359.71 55.57
    05/01/2022 2074.83 362.71 59.43
    06/01/2022 1964.83 351.14 61.15
    07/01/2022 1920.16 351.00 66.43
    08/01/2022 1903.50 349.00 72.58
    09/01/2022 1830.67 359.00 79.43
    10/01/2022 1794.66 362.71 86.43
    11/01/2022 1641.00 366.14 92.00
    12/01/2022 1559.33 365.43 95.57
    13/01/2022 1527.00 369.14 99.85
    14/01/2022 1499.50 377.57 102.72
    15/01/2022 1466.00 377.14 103.86
    16/01/2022 1429.50 367.71 104.71
    17/01/2022 1380.17 360.71 105.43
    18/01/2022 1330.00 350.43 107.15
    19/01/2022 1294.84 346.86 110.29
    20/01/2022 1250.83 345.14 111.14
    21/01/2022 1212.50 335.71 112.71
    22/01/2022 1195.00 323.71 114.00
    23/01/2022 1173.17 315.86 114.00
    24/01/2022 1128.00 305.57 113.86
    25/01/2022 1105.16 304.86 109.15
    26/01/2022 1091.50 304.43 108.85
    27/01/2022 1078.33 300.86 108.43
    28/01/2022 1077.84 299.71 106.71
    29/01/2022 1078.17 307.00 105.71
    30/01/2022 1080.16 299.43 104.86
    31/01/2022 1056.00 296.14 101.71
    01/02/2022 1038.83 295.29 105.57
    02/02/2022 1025.50 283.00 103.72
    03/02/2022 1002.00 276.86 100.28
    04/02/2022 977.34 272.00 94.85
    05/02/2022 959.00 264.57 90.71
    06/02/2022 952.17 269.14 87.15
    07/02/2022 934.34 268.43 83.00
    08/02/2022 920.50 259.57 76.15
    09/02/2022 880.16 260.00 70.57
    10/02/2022 857.00 259.71 67.72
    11/02/2022 827.17 254.86 65.14
    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
    So around a 7% CFR?
    Seems high, that said? Admissions due to Covid?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,020

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57

    Snip…

    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
    Eyeballing it - roughly 10% death rate?
    Less, because of the lags. Matching peak-to-peak looks more like 5%.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,683
    I’m worried for our Queen ☹️ She’s already looking so much more fragile since she lost her husband.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,020
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57
    16/12/2021 254.50 92.29 28.29
    17/12/2021 273.83 94.29 30.00
    18/12/2021 303.83 96.29 30.71
    19/12/2021 331.33 101.57 29.57
    20/12/2021 393.50 106.43 30.00
    21/12/2021 456.17 115.57 27.28
    22/12/2021 522.83 126.86 29.86
    23/12/2021 595.00 138.29 31.71
    24/12/2021 667.83 146.29 32.15
    25/12/2021 681.34 160.57 32.57
    26/12/2021 754.00 170.71 34.29
    27/12/2021 910.50 189.57 34.86
    28/12/2021 1108.34 214.00 38.72
    29/12/2021 1405.50 244.29 38.71
    30/12/2021 1645.17 275.00 41.86
    31/12/2021 1797.50 294.00 43.57
    01/01/2022 1895.00 315.29 46.86
    02/01/2022 1993.50 337.14 49.42
    03/01/2022 2072.34 353.14 52.43
    04/01/2022 2175.83 359.71 55.57
    05/01/2022 2074.83 362.71 59.43
    06/01/2022 1964.83 351.14 61.15
    07/01/2022 1920.16 351.00 66.43
    08/01/2022 1903.50 349.00 72.58
    09/01/2022 1830.67 359.00 79.43
    10/01/2022 1794.66 362.71 86.43
    11/01/2022 1641.00 366.14 92.00
    12/01/2022 1559.33 365.43 95.57
    13/01/2022 1527.00 369.14 99.85
    14/01/2022 1499.50 377.57 102.72
    15/01/2022 1466.00 377.14 103.86
    16/01/2022 1429.50 367.71 104.71
    17/01/2022 1380.17 360.71 105.43
    18/01/2022 1330.00 350.43 107.15
    19/01/2022 1294.84 346.86 110.29
    20/01/2022 1250.83 345.14 111.14
    21/01/2022 1212.50 335.71 112.71
    22/01/2022 1195.00 323.71 114.00
    23/01/2022 1173.17 315.86 114.00
    24/01/2022 1128.00 305.57 113.86
    25/01/2022 1105.16 304.86 109.15
    26/01/2022 1091.50 304.43 108.85
    27/01/2022 1078.33 300.86 108.43
    28/01/2022 1077.84 299.71 106.71
    29/01/2022 1078.17 307.00 105.71
    30/01/2022 1080.16 299.43 104.86
    31/01/2022 1056.00 296.14 101.71
    01/02/2022 1038.83 295.29 105.57
    02/02/2022 1025.50 283.00 103.72
    03/02/2022 1002.00 276.86 100.28
    04/02/2022 977.34 272.00 94.85
    05/02/2022 959.00 264.57 90.71
    06/02/2022 952.17 269.14 87.15
    07/02/2022 934.34 268.43 83.00
    08/02/2022 920.50 259.57 76.15
    09/02/2022 880.16 260.00 70.57
    10/02/2022 857.00 259.71 67.72
    11/02/2022 827.17 254.86 65.14
    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
    So around a 7% CFR?
    Seems high, that said? Admissions due to Covid?
    Worth bearing in mind that I'm assuming these are figures for all those aged 85+, so that would include men (who are more vulnerable to Covid), and whoever doesn't have the full three doses.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099
    edited February 2022
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
    You have to wonder how on earth we ended up ruling a quarter of the planet for a hundred years, given the number of corrupt, cowardly, and incompetent people in senior positions.
    1. We bought a quarter of the planet's corrupt, cowardly and incompetent rulers.
    2. gunboats.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532

    Draghi and Italy - dependent on Russia for gas - throw a major spanner in the talk of an EU united front to punish Putin with tough sanctions. So much for “whatever it takes”.

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1494763381450067968?s=21

    I’m bored of saying Putin hasn’t got lucky with this division, but has for years plotted it whilst we oblivious went about our business - like the Martians plotting invasion in HG Wells book.
    Italian politics has been partly franchised by the Russians for a long time. Unless you believe that Romano Prodi got his information on Morro from a seance.....
  • There are going to be some choice “hot takes”

    For anyone keeping track of what Boris Johnson has done to the Queen:

    🔻 Lied to her
    🔻 Implicated her in illegally shutting Parliament
    🔻 Made her sit alone at her husband's funeral while his office were hungover
    🔻 Scrapped covid restrictions and 3 weeks later she gets Covid


    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1495367783122714630
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,137

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.

    The only thing is, haven't sanctions already been imposed, over the Belarus question ?
    On Belarus yes.
    On Putin for invading? I don't think so.
    Mostly cos I'm not sure most have twigged that's what's happened yet.
    It's a bit different if the occupiers are invited in.
    Putin: Hahaha - Belarus is mine!
    https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=788#comic
  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo : Covid is over!

    Real life: HMQ has Covid...

    If a triple-dosed 95 year old can catch Covid and not become seriously ill then, Covid certainly is over as a major threat to public health.
    As I'm sure you know that's a non sequitur and a lie.

    Some people get it worse than others. As you know full well.

    But hopefully the Queen will be okay.
    It's neither. Some people get the flu worse than others, indeed some die. Covid is approaching the severity of endemic flu, and it may have already got there given the stats we use are lagging indicators and don't differentiate between those ill from Covid and those who happen to have Covid and go into hospital for some other reason.

    Or are you suggesting we develop further LFT and PCR tests and that in future anyone who gets a snotty nose is required to self isolate if it turns out to be a seasonal flu virus?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,099

    I’m worried for our Queen ☹️ She’s already looking so much more fragile since she lost her husband.

    One of our neighbours made a dramatic decline in frailty between her 89th and 90th birthdays. Perhaps what was so remarkable was how vital she had still been at 89. A decade's worth of ageing suddenly caught up.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,882
    dixiedean said:

    Imagine for a moment. Putin sent hundreds of thousands of troops unannounced into Belarus, and declares they'll be there permanently. Effectively an occupation.
    The reaction? Sanctions and outrage. An invasion! To prop up a puppet dictator hated by the people. And a sham independent country.
    Well. That's what he's just done.
    Just without the sanctions and outrage.

    Yes, but that's just the status quo.
    Belarus has been a Russian puppet state.... since... well, probably its formation.
    Certainly since Putin has been in power in Russia.

    Indeed, puppet state might be too generous a word these days. Russia sees Belarus like the United States sees California.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,839

    I’m worried for our Queen ☹️ She’s already looking so much more fragile since she lost her husband.

    You'll only have to put up with 10-15 years of Chaz at the most. He looks fucked already.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,532

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
    You have to wonder how on earth we ended up ruling a quarter of the planet for a hundred years, given the number of corrupt, cowardly, and incompetent people in senior positions.
    1. We bought a quarter of the planet's corrupt, cowardly and incompetent rulers.
    2. gunboats.
    2a The gunboats were rather efficiently run.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,605

    There are going to be some choice “hot takes”

    For anyone keeping track of what Boris Johnson has done to the Queen:

    🔻 Lied to her
    🔻 Implicated her in illegally shutting Parliament
    🔻 Made her sit alone at her husband's funeral while his office were hungover
    🔻 Scrapped covid restrictions and 3 weeks later she gets Covid


    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1495367783122714630

    For the past year or so, I'd say that Johnson, for all his faults, has made the right calls on COVID. Perhaps that was just luck, but then, it's good to be lucky.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,550
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
    You have to wonder how on earth we ended up ruling a quarter of the planet for a hundred years, given the number of corrupt, cowardly, and incompetent people in senior positions.
    Presumably as we were far from unique in that respect.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,683

    Draghi and Italy - dependent on Russia for gas - throw a major spanner in the talk of an EU united front to punish Putin with tough sanctions. So much for “whatever it takes”.

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1494763381450067968?s=21

    I’m bored of saying Putin hasn’t got lucky with this division, but has for years plotted it whilst we oblivious went about our business - like the Martians plotting invasion in HG Wells book.
    Italian politics has been partly franchised by the Russians for a long time. Unless you believe that Romano Prodi got his information on Morro from a seance.....
    That’s quite a claim!

    Actually what is the claim? Some factions are that close with Putin’s McMafia they can receive and utilise Russian intelligence, not just money, to destabilise their political opponents? [moon rabbit shrugs] ]Italian politics always been a basket case compared to UK, even some still young in their twenties has known this for years.
  • There are going to be some choice “hot takes”

    For anyone keeping track of what Boris Johnson has done to the Queen:

    🔻 Lied to her
    🔻 Implicated her in illegally shutting Parliament
    🔻 Made her sit alone at her husband's funeral while his office were hungover
    🔻 Scrapped covid restrictions and 3 weeks later she gets Covid


    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1495367783122714630

    The fourth one is imbecilic.

    Covid restrictions have been scrapped because of the combination of Omicron and vaccination has massively reduced risk.

    It seems he would prefer the current situation to be more dangerous.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,683

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
    You have to wonder how on earth we ended up ruling a quarter of the planet for a hundred years, given the number of corrupt, cowardly, and incompetent people in senior positions.
    1. We bought a quarter of the planet's corrupt, cowardly and incompetent rulers.
    2. gunboats.
    3. We’ve gone downhill recently and not as we were?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,605
    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson shouldn't have to resign if he receives a fixed penalty notice for breaching his coronavirus laws, James Cleverly tells @RidgeOnSunday: “I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a vacuum at the centre of government.”
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1495320446702694400

    I don’t think what the country needs at the moment is a moral vacuum at the centre of government, but here we are anyway.
    Good piece today from Rawnsley. It isn't just our government that is a moral vacuum, but all our major institutions. The culture of an elite who can behave with impunity and cover up for each other is a characteristic of all our power structures.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1495316097855275011?t=3fzFHJcjDRnW7m0k64plvA&s=19

    What took him so long to realise? I've been saying this on here for years.

    See here from autumn 2018 -

    "Meanwhile, the Tories, lumbered with a dutiful leader doggedly pursuing an ill-thought through policy which its main proponents can now barely explain, let alone implement competently, pathetically latch onto the latest saviour politician for the post-May deluge......

    Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/the-dangers-of-polite-demagogues/)

    Or here from January 2020 -

    "Perhaps ...it is time to realise that even successful or vital sectors or professions can in reality be really rather more second-rate than we like to pretend. Perhaps we should stop deluding ourselves that our key institutions are as good as we sometimes rather vaingloriously claim. The police are not the only body of which this could be said, of course."

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/)

    Or from June 2020

    "What will it take for those in leadership positions to realise that being a leader is not about taking the money and the glory, not about using one position to lever yourself into other lucrative, high profile positions, not about walking away with a mealy-mouthed apology or self-exculpatory explanation but about taking responsibility for what happens when you are in charge?

    For all the management books, courses, training, policies and procedures which infest corporate and public life these days, too many people in positions of responsibility behave as if they do not understand this fundamental fact. Too many behave like small children coming up with implausible stories for why their behaviour should be excused. Or think that somehow it has nothing to do with them. Too many don’t care because they know they will be indulged and get their sweeties no matter what. We wonder why the performance of so many of our institutions and services and companies is really rather mediocre. Is this any surprise when the tone from the top is, too often, “nothing to do with me” and “let me get out while the going’s good”?"

    (https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/16/rewards-for-failure/)


    Or any of the other headers over the years I've written about leadership or about how we don't value the underpinnings of a healthy democratic society - scrutiny and the rule of law.

    What he writes about has been going on for a while. The worship of finance which started under Thatcher and continued under Blair was an early sign of this sense of indispensability, impunity, lack of scrutiny and hubris leading to nemesis and a breach of trust which has helped corrode one of the vital elements of a well-functioning society.

    I wrote about that too. Here - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/.

    I am going to change my name to Cassandra and demand my own ludicrously overpaid column in the Observer. Humph! 😡
    And, I don't honestly think that things were much better in the past.
    Just finished Andrew Roberts magnificent “George III” - if you think the current shower are a bunch of self-serving incompetent chancers you should see the ne’er-do-wells he had to work with!
    You have to wonder how on earth we ended up ruling a quarter of the planet for a hundred years, given the number of corrupt, cowardly, and incompetent people in senior positions.
    Presumably as we were far from unique in that respect.
    It's very much the case that in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

    I think Frank Herbert was correct that it's not so much that power corrupts, as that power attracts pathological personalities.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,683
    Dura_Ace said:

    I’m worried for our Queen ☹️ She’s already looking so much more fragile since she lost her husband.

    You'll only have to put up with 10-15 years of Chaz at the most. He looks fucked already.
    He does look old for his age, I concede.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,137
    Sean_F said:

    There are going to be some choice “hot takes”

    For anyone keeping track of what Boris Johnson has done to the Queen:

    🔻 Lied to her
    🔻 Implicated her in illegally shutting Parliament
    🔻 Made her sit alone at her husband's funeral while his office were hungover
    🔻 Scrapped covid restrictions and 3 weeks later she gets Covid


    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1495367783122714630

    For the past year or so, I'd say that Johnson, for all his faults, has made the right calls on COVID. Perhaps that was just luck, but then, it's good to be lucky.
    I'd say he's made better calls than his political opponents and most of his counterparts elsewhere in the west.
    A long way from making the right calls though.
    Thi gs really turned the corner when Matt Hancock was replaced.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: The Queen has tested positive for Covid-19 this morning, the palace has confirmed. The 95-year-old Queen is experiencing 'mild cold-like' symptoms. BUT is expecting to continue 'light duties' at Windsor this week.
    https://twitter.com/MattSunRoyal/status/1495363945733005312

    The odds are not very good.....
    What are the hospitalisation rates for the triple jabbed (very) elderly ?
    For 85+

    Cases Admissions Deaths
    14/12/2021 226.34 94.43 29.72
    15/12/2021 239.50 94.57 29.57
    16/12/2021 254.50 92.29 28.29
    17/12/2021 273.83 94.29 30.00
    18/12/2021 303.83 96.29 30.71
    19/12/2021 331.33 101.57 29.57
    20/12/2021 393.50 106.43 30.00
    21/12/2021 456.17 115.57 27.28
    22/12/2021 522.83 126.86 29.86
    23/12/2021 595.00 138.29 31.71
    24/12/2021 667.83 146.29 32.15
    25/12/2021 681.34 160.57 32.57
    26/12/2021 754.00 170.71 34.29
    27/12/2021 910.50 189.57 34.86
    28/12/2021 1108.34 214.00 38.72
    29/12/2021 1405.50 244.29 38.71
    30/12/2021 1645.17 275.00 41.86
    31/12/2021 1797.50 294.00 43.57
    01/01/2022 1895.00 315.29 46.86
    02/01/2022 1993.50 337.14 49.42
    03/01/2022 2072.34 353.14 52.43
    04/01/2022 2175.83 359.71 55.57
    05/01/2022 2074.83 362.71 59.43
    06/01/2022 1964.83 351.14 61.15
    07/01/2022 1920.16 351.00 66.43
    08/01/2022 1903.50 349.00 72.58
    09/01/2022 1830.67 359.00 79.43
    10/01/2022 1794.66 362.71 86.43
    11/01/2022 1641.00 366.14 92.00
    12/01/2022 1559.33 365.43 95.57
    13/01/2022 1527.00 369.14 99.85
    14/01/2022 1499.50 377.57 102.72
    15/01/2022 1466.00 377.14 103.86
    16/01/2022 1429.50 367.71 104.71
    17/01/2022 1380.17 360.71 105.43
    18/01/2022 1330.00 350.43 107.15
    19/01/2022 1294.84 346.86 110.29
    20/01/2022 1250.83 345.14 111.14
    21/01/2022 1212.50 335.71 112.71
    22/01/2022 1195.00 323.71 114.00
    23/01/2022 1173.17 315.86 114.00
    24/01/2022 1128.00 305.57 113.86
    25/01/2022 1105.16 304.86 109.15
    26/01/2022 1091.50 304.43 108.85
    27/01/2022 1078.33 300.86 108.43
    28/01/2022 1077.84 299.71 106.71
    29/01/2022 1078.17 307.00 105.71
    30/01/2022 1080.16 299.43 104.86
    31/01/2022 1056.00 296.14 101.71
    01/02/2022 1038.83 295.29 105.57
    02/02/2022 1025.50 283.00 103.72
    03/02/2022 1002.00 276.86 100.28
    04/02/2022 977.34 272.00 94.85
    05/02/2022 959.00 264.57 90.71
    06/02/2022 952.17 269.14 87.15
    07/02/2022 934.34 268.43 83.00
    08/02/2022 920.50 259.57 76.15
    09/02/2022 880.16 260.00 70.57
    10/02/2022 857.00 259.71 67.72
    11/02/2022 827.17 254.86 65.14
    12/02/2022 827.84 251.00 62.29
    13/02/2022 821.17 247.57 58.00
    14/02/2022 788.50 247.57 56.57
    So around a 7% CFR?
    Seems high, that said? Admissions due to Covid?
    Worth bearing in mind that I'm assuming these are figures for all those aged 85+, so that would include men (who are more vulnerable to Covid), and whoever doesn't have the full three doses.
    Less than 7%. Deaths lag, so the numbers dying on 14 February relate to cases 2-4 weeks earlier. (With a caveat that I don't know if it still works that way in very old people, of if death happens quicker).

    HMQ also gets much better medical treatment than most of us.
This discussion has been closed.