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More than 2/3 of those polled blame PM for the harassing of Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Whatever zealot - What's Javia normannen anyway?
  • .

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    If you had listened to Philp this morning he clearly believes saying Starmer and Savile in the same breath as many times as he can is a vote winner for the Conservatives.

    The question is, are enough of them offended enough to send 55 letters and then vote Johnson down in a VONC? I say no.
    I'd guess their analysis is that a lot of low information voters will remember it strongly (no doubt helped by ongoing social media misinformation) and play a big part in their vote. Whereas disgusted of Tunbridge Wells will complain loudly now, but come back to the party later on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
  • Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.
    The irony...

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Harzi said:

    Parrainages report from Paris:

    PÉCRESSE Valérie 939
    MACRON Emmanuel 926
    HIDALGO Anne 652
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 368
    ROUSSEL Fabien 326
    LASSALLE Jean 316
    JADOT Yannick 268
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 232
    MÉLENCHON Jean-Luc 224
    ASSELINEAU François 171
    ZEMMOUR Éric 149
    LE PEN Marine 139
    POUTOU Philippe 127
    KAZIB Anasse 84
    THOUY Hélène 48
    TAUBIRA Christiane 36

    Fascinating - needs 1000, you said? How did Melenchon manage it last time? And are they transferable, so e.g. Roussel's could switch to Hidalgo if Roussel is falling short?

    Anuway Go Pecresse! (said he, eyeing his book - though I plan to trade out before the second round, which Macron should win)
  • ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Harzi said:

    Parrainages report from Paris:

    PÉCRESSE Valérie 939
    MACRON Emmanuel 926
    HIDALGO Anne 652
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 368
    ROUSSEL Fabien 326
    LASSALLE Jean 316
    JADOT Yannick 268
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 232
    MÉLENCHON Jean-Luc 224
    ASSELINEAU François 171
    ZEMMOUR Éric 149
    LE PEN Marine 139
    POUTOU Philippe 127
    KAZIB Anasse 84
    THOUY Hélène 48
    TAUBIRA Christiane 36

    Fascinating - needs 1000, you said? How did Melenchon manage it last time? And are they transferable, so e.g. Roussel's could switch to Hidalgo if Roussel is falling short?

    Anuway Go Pecresse! (said he, eyeing his book - though I plan to trade out before the second round, which Macron should win)
    500, so the top three are there already.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
    Assuming of course that such a team would gel as effectively.

    Remember, you can take lots of talented individuals and put them together, but that doesn't make an effective team if they don't get on. Exhibit A - the England cricket team.

    That's not to say it couldn't work, merely that it's not a given.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited February 2022
    JBriskin3 said:

    I note that wee jobby Galloway saying that the abuse yesterday was Starmer’s fault.

    There are clearly no depths the bawbag won’t sink to. Despicable man.

    I like him - pro-brexit and anti-nationalism; a sound ideology.

    I used to watch his Sunday youtube programme when I had a youtube button on my remote. His RT show is a bit of a bore.

    And if he winds You up that's even more reason to like him.
    Any updates on GG's view of Irish nationalism? Use to be quite keen on it as I recall..
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Harzi said:

    Parrainages report from Paris:

    PÉCRESSE Valérie 939
    MACRON Emmanuel 926
    HIDALGO Anne 652
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 368
    ROUSSEL Fabien 326
    LASSALLE Jean 316
    JADOT Yannick 268
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 232
    MÉLENCHON Jean-Luc 224
    ASSELINEAU François 171
    ZEMMOUR Éric 149
    LE PEN Marine 139
    POUTOU Philippe 127
    KAZIB Anasse 84
    THOUY Hélène 48
    TAUBIRA Christiane 36

    Fascinating - needs 1000, you said? How did Melenchon manage it last time? And are they transferable, so e.g. Roussel's could switch to Hidalgo if Roussel is falling short?

    Anuway Go Pecresse! (said he, eyeing his book - though I plan to trade out before the second round, which Macron should win)
    I think 600 is the required number.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    God, bloody hell, killer point. I can see we are all going to have to raise our forensic games here.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited February 2022
    Harzi said:

    Parrainages report from Paris:

    PÉCRESSE Valérie 939
    MACRON Emmanuel 926
    HIDALGO Anne 652
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 368
    ROUSSEL Fabien 326
    LASSALLE Jean 316
    JADOT Yannick 268
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 232
    MÉLENCHON Jean-Luc 224
    ASSELINEAU François 171
    ZEMMOUR Éric 149
    LE PEN Marine 139
    POUTOU Philippe 127
    KAZIB Anasse 84
    THOUY Hélène 48
    TAUBIRA Christiane 36

    And from the more minor candidates...

    BARNIER Michel 1

    https://presidentielle2022.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/les-parrainages/parrainages-valides-par-candidat.html
  • Heathener said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nestacres said:

    2/3rds of people have been gaslighted by the media to believe that Starmer incident was instgated by Johnson

    This shows what actually went down...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/08/truth-keir-starmer-video-fifth-slurs-jimmy-savile-called-traitor/

    You don't know what gaslight means, or instigate.
    Gaslight
    I find myself in the delightful position of not knowing what it means, never trying to find out what it means, and never intending to.

    I'm not interested in silly affectations of vocabulary. I guarantee that whatever the hell it does mean there will be a thousand better ways of saying it already in existence.

    Do I sound grumpy?! It's been one of those days. Every single bloody thing I've dealt with. And don't get me started on Hermes who are so godamawful it beggars belief.

    :smile:
    Their ties can be quite nice, and their soap is lovely.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    I note that wee jobby Galloway saying that the abuse yesterday was Starmer’s fault.

    There are clearly no depths the bawbag won’t sink to. Despicable man.

    I like him - pro-brexit and anti-nationalism; a sound ideology.

    I used to watch his Sunday youtube programme when I had a youtube button on my remote. His RT show is a bit of a bore.

    And if he winds You up that's even more reason to like him.
    Any updates on GG's view of Irish nationalism? Use to be quite keen on it as I recall..
    He probably still is.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
    Assuming of course that such a team would gel as effectively.

    Remember, you can take lots of talented individuals and put them together, but that doesn't make an effective team if they don't get on. Exhibit A - the England cricket team.

    That's not to say it couldn't work, merely that it's not a given.
    “GB” (sic) ice hockey gold in the Nazi winter olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen?

    Two-thirds Scots, but the odd Englishman managed to keep up.

    Plenty of other “GB” (sic) medals with mixed teams. Do you want them removed from the record?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited February 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
    Assuming of course that such a team would gel as effectively.

    Remember, you can take lots of talented individuals and put them together, but that doesn't make an effective team if they don't get on. Exhibit A - the England cricket team.

    That's not to say it couldn't work, merely that it's not a given.
    “GB” (sic) ice hockey gold in the Nazi winter olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen?

    Two-thirds Scots, but the odd Englishman managed to keep up.

    Plenty of other “GB” (sic) medals with mixed teams. Do you want them removed from the record?
    If you'd actually read my comment, you would notice I said no such thing.

    (In the example I actually used, all the players were English bar one New Zealander.)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nestacres said:

    2/3rds of people have been gaslighted by the media to believe that Starmer incident was instgated by Johnson

    This shows what actually went down...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/08/truth-keir-starmer-video-fifth-slurs-jimmy-savile-called-traitor/

    You don't know what gaslight means, or instigate.
    Gaslight is one of the words of the year. Getting way over-used to the extent it loses its proper meaning. Like dead cat.
    Dead cat is a bit different; that wasn't meaning drift, it was two quite distinct etymologies- dead cat bounce at the bottom of a market, and then dead cat thrown on table to change the conversation.
    I'd say dead cat is the same (within the latter meaning): the dead cat thrown on the table is supposed to be some new, random, deliberately shocking action which gets everyone talking about it rather than the principal issue at hand. The Savile slur being a classic example. But opponents of Boris have been claiming everything under the sun is a dead cat when most of them are just the government either tripping from one cock up to another, or trying to steer the narrative on to safer ground like the vaccine rollout or Brexit. Announcing a new initiative to boost the population or that you're cancelling annoying train announcements is not a dead cat.
    Indeed. It is important to distinguish between a dead cat and a dog's dinner :wink:
  • Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error. Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday, because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    Johnson Troll!!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
    As noted upthread that tub of lard Cox is still singing from the Wait for the final Gray report hymnsheet.

    Consolation is every time I get a 3 paragraph email out of him that's £600 quids worth of output, for free.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "It is more likely that the real problem in Downing Street is not the officials or the whips, but the Prime Minister, and that Tory MPs are rapidly running out of displacement activities."

    @stephenkb on today's reshuffle. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2022/02/why-boris-johnsons-cabinet-reshuffle-is-likely-to-fail
  • Heathener said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nestacres said:

    2/3rds of people have been gaslighted by the media to believe that Starmer incident was instgated by Johnson

    This shows what actually went down...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/08/truth-keir-starmer-video-fifth-slurs-jimmy-savile-called-traitor/

    You don't know what gaslight means, or instigate.
    Gaslight
    I find myself in the delightful position of not knowing what it means, never trying to find out what it means, and never intending to.
    You might enjoy the film, based on the play from which the term derives:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYmtzaHwCKo

  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nestacres said:

    2/3rds of people have been gaslighted by the media to believe that Starmer incident was instgated by Johnson

    This shows what actually went down...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/08/truth-keir-starmer-video-fifth-slurs-jimmy-savile-called-traitor/

    You don't know what gaslight means, or instigate.
    Gaslight is one of the words of the year. Getting way over-used to the extent it loses its proper meaning. Like dead cat.
    Dead cat is a bit different; that wasn't meaning drift, it was two quite distinct etymologies- dead cat bounce at the bottom of a market, and then dead cat thrown on table to change the conversation.
    I'd say dead cat is the same (within the latter meaning): the dead cat thrown on the table is supposed to be some new, random, deliberately shocking action which gets everyone talking about it rather than the principal issue at hand. The Savile slur being a classic example. But opponents of Boris have been claiming everything under the sun is a dead cat when most of them are just the government either tripping from one cock up to another, or trying to steer the narrative on to safer ground like the vaccine rollout or Brexit. Announcing a new initiative to boost the population or that you're cancelling annoying train announcements is not a dead cat.
    Indeed. It is important to distinguish between a dead cat and a dog's dinner :wink:
    What if the dead cat *is* the dog's dinner?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    There you go, showing your mettle as a punster.
  • Scott_xP said:

    "It is more likely that the real problem in Downing Street is not the officials or the whips, but the Prime Minister, and that Tory MPs are rapidly running out of displacement activities."

    @stephenkb on today's reshuffle. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2022/02/why-boris-johnsons-cabinet-reshuffle-is-likely-to-fail

    I seems though they haven't the backbone to get rid of this national embarrassment.

    They go into recess in a day's time. Johnson is presumably then safe for ten days and by March the argument will be it is too close to local elections to ditch a leader and so it goes on and on and on...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Hungarian election to be held on 3rd April.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Scott_xP said:

    "It is more likely that the real problem in Downing Street is not the officials or the whips, but the Prime Minister, and that Tory MPs are rapidly running out of displacement activities."

    @stephenkb on today's reshuffle. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2022/02/why-boris-johnsons-cabinet-reshuffle-is-likely-to-fail

    I seems though they haven't the backbone to get rid of this national embarrassment.

    They go into recess in a day's time. Johnson is presumably then safe for ten days and by March the argument will be it is too close to local elections to ditch a leader and so it goes on and on and on...
    When't the Dromey by-election? That might be the next test.
  • Sandpit said:

    FPT: Laptops. @RochdalePioneers

    Always choose from the laptops that offer Windows Pro as an option, they’re generally the business range, a little more expensive but more stable in configuration for central management and with 3-year hardware warranty. I usually go for Dell XPS range, or Lenovo.

    Left-field option is the Microsoft Surface tablet, which is surprisingly good at the higher specs, if you are mostly in office or home locations with proper screens and keyboards for the big spreadsheets. I use these for senior management, the battery really does last all day and it can also drive a 34” 4k screen.

    Most laptops are not really upgradeable any more, so get at least 16GB RAM and i7 processor.

    As mentioned earlier, definitely W10 over W11.

    Hint: create two user accounts when you set it up yourself, before giving it to corporate IT, and make them both administrators but without names like ‘admin’. You will find these useful once you have a domain account that needs permission to install anything.

    Out of curiosity what is the difference between a "business range" laptop preinstalled with Pro and a consumer range one preinstalled with Home when they are the same hardware?

    I can find quite a few examples on both Dell and Acer stores where the business model is the same hardware - chassis, screen, processor, memory. Admittedly many more of the Dell business machines have the same matt Full HD screens that @Beibheirli_C loves and I hate... :)
    There was a very interesting study done years (decades!!) back where various factors were being looked at for human/computer interaction. An unexpected result was that matt, grey keyboards caused less headaches than glossy, black keyboards. Luckily the keyboards were detachable and so as part of the study they swapped them around. The headaches always followed the black shiny keyboards and it was eventually determined to be reflections from overhead lights making users squint when they looked down at the keys.

    This is why all keyboards went matt grey in the early 80s and all screens had a matt layer to reduce reflections.

    The contrast enhancement of the glossy screen is not worth the headaches it causes.
    I love this debate! I don;t have problems with a glossy screen, but have used too many business laptops with a godawful low brightness low resolution screen. OK if I was going to be staring a laptop screen all day it may be an issue, but thats what docking to a screen is for. And screens are all gloss!

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...
    Processor names - especially the Intel iCore series can be very misleading. Also a "Slower" i7 can be faster than a "quicker" i5 because of hyperthreading and pipelining issues.

    Unless you are high-end gaming or video editing do not worry too much about the processor. Any modern processor will provide more power than you need even allowing for the retarding effect of Windoze
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I’m told on being appointed, Chris Heaton-Harris told the PM when he was a whip in 🇪🇺 that former MEP Dan Hannan told him his problem was “death by a thousand kindnesses.” A signal to backbenchers unhappy with some whipping tactics, perhaps, he wants to be more carrot than stick.
    https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1491104193012137987
    https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1491045288282583044
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Andy_JS said:
    Will there be a swing from Fidesz to Fidesz?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    JBriskin3 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    "It is more likely that the real problem in Downing Street is not the officials or the whips, but the Prime Minister, and that Tory MPs are rapidly running out of displacement activities."

    @stephenkb on today's reshuffle. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2022/02/why-boris-johnsons-cabinet-reshuffle-is-likely-to-fail

    I seems though they haven't the backbone to get rid of this national embarrassment.

    They go into recess in a day's time. Johnson is presumably then safe for ten days and by March the argument will be it is too close to local elections to ditch a leader and so it goes on and on and on...
    When't the Dromey by-election? That might be the next test.
    3rd of March apparently
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nestacres said:

    2/3rds of people have been gaslighted by the media to believe that Starmer incident was instgated by Johnson

    This shows what actually went down...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/08/truth-keir-starmer-video-fifth-slurs-jimmy-savile-called-traitor/

    You don't know what gaslight means, or instigate.
    Gaslight is one of the words of the year. Getting way over-used to the extent it loses its proper meaning. Like dead cat.
    Dead cat is a bit different; that wasn't meaning drift, it was two quite distinct etymologies- dead cat bounce at the bottom of a market, and then dead cat thrown on table to change the conversation.
    I'd say dead cat is the same (within the latter meaning): the dead cat thrown on the table is supposed to be some new, random, deliberately shocking action which gets everyone talking about it rather than the principal issue at hand. The Savile slur being a classic example. But opponents of Boris have been claiming everything under the sun is a dead cat when most of them are just the government either tripping from one cock up to another, or trying to steer the narrative on to safer ground like the vaccine rollout or Brexit. Announcing a new initiative to boost the population or that you're cancelling annoying train announcements is not a dead cat.
    Indeed. It is important to distinguish between a dead cat and a dog's dinner :wink:
    What if the dead cat *is* the dog's dinner?
    Good question! And what if the dog is Big Dog?

    I fear we may have gone too far into the world of metaphors...
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
    Assuming of course that such a team would gel as effectively.

    Remember, you can take lots of talented individuals and put them together, but that doesn't make an effective team if they don't get on. Exhibit A - the England cricket team.

    That's not to say it couldn't work, merely that it's not a given.
    “GB” (sic) ice hockey gold in the Nazi winter olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen?

    Two-thirds Scots, but the odd Englishman managed to keep up.

    Plenty of other “GB” (sic) medals with mixed teams. Do you want them removed from the record?
    If you'd actually read my comment, you would notice I said no such thing.

    (In the example I actually used, all the players were English bar one New Zealander.)
    Actually reading and responding to the point a poster made? And not constructing a straw man?? Are you new to PB??? Welcome.
  • HarziHarzi Posts: 2

    Harzi said:

    Parrainages report from Paris:

    PÉCRESSE Valérie 939
    MACRON Emmanuel 926
    HIDALGO Anne 652
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 368
    ROUSSEL Fabien 326
    LASSALLE Jean 316
    JADOT Yannick 268
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 232
    MÉLENCHON Jean-Luc 224
    ASSELINEAU François 171
    ZEMMOUR Éric 149
    LE PEN Marine 139
    POUTOU Philippe 127
    KAZIB Anasse 84
    THOUY Hélène 48
    TAUBIRA Christiane 36

    Fascinating - needs 1000, you said? How did Melenchon manage it last time? And are they transferable, so e.g. Roussel's could switch to Hidalgo if Roussel is falling short?

    Anuway Go Pecresse! (said he, eyeing his book - though I plan to trade out before the second round, which Macron should win)
    They're neither transferable nor rescindable.

    The threshold is 500. The other two requirements are that they must come from at least 30 departments or overseas collectivities, and no more than 10% must come from the same department or overseas collectivity.

    I checked and the law says 10%, not 50. Which for pedants raises the question of what happens if opponents of a candidate who are concentrated in one department send in some parrainages at the last moment to put his number above 10% of his total :-)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
    Assuming of course that such a team would gel as effectively.

    Remember, you can take lots of talented individuals and put them together, but that doesn't make an effective team if they don't get on. Exhibit A - the England cricket team.

    That's not to say it couldn't work, merely that it's not a given.
    “GB” (sic) ice hockey gold in the Nazi winter olympics in Garmisch-Partenkirchen?

    Two-thirds Scots, but the odd Englishman managed to keep up.

    Plenty of other “GB” (sic) medals with mixed teams. Do you want them removed from the record?
    If you'd actually read my comment, you would notice I said no such thing.

    (In the example I actually used, all the players were English bar one New Zealander.)
    Actually reading and responding to the point a poster made? And not constructing a straw man?? Are you new to PB??? Welcome.
    No but I'm an eternal optimist.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    IshmaelZ said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    God, bloody hell, killer point. I can see we are all going to have to raise our forensic games here.
    You seem to think that this *isn't* PedanticBetting.com?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    .

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    If you had listened to Philp this morning he clearly believes saying Starmer and Savile in the same breath as many times as he can is a vote winner for the Conservatives.

    The question is, are enough of them offended enough to send 55 letters and then vote Johnson down in a VONC? I say no.
    I can understand after Brexit he might think that Johnson voters are iredeemably stupid but that's not quite true. They are as smart as anyone on this board at responding to straightforward evidence and deciding who is telling the truth and who is bluffing.

    If juxtaposing two names 50 times is all you need to persuade Philip then we've been vastly overestimating him


  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:
    "For all that, while polls are currently close, the government must be favourites to win again (smarkets price this at around 1.5, and that looks about right to me)."

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/orbán-warfare-hungary-in-2022-1cd26dadc11e
  • Cooking to do!

    Later peeps! :)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Two observations from the weekly shop today.

    1. Loads of people still wearing masks including outdoors in the high street.

    2. Really, really, noticeable increase in prices. Quite shocked tbh.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
    The full Sue Gray report (if it ever comes out!) is a potential trigger, as is any action by the Met against Boris personally. I agree that the May election isn't likely to be decisive in itself - the comparatives are against a period when Labour was doing well, and the particular councils up for election aren't ones where the Tories will face big losses. Of course, it might serve as an excuse for action, if enough MPs are looking for an excuse.

    I think at present I'd say that it's more likely than not that Boris will limp on, wounded and repeatedly mired in scandal and chaos, with Sue Gray the most likely trigger for action.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Roger said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    If you had listened to Philp this morning he clearly believes saying Starmer and Savile in the same breath as many times as he can is a vote winner for the Conservatives.

    The question is, are enough of them offended enough to send 55 letters and then vote Johnson down in a VONC? I say no.
    I can understand after Brexit he might think that Johnson voters are iredeemably stupid but that's not quite true. They are as smart as anyone on this board at responding to straightforward evidence and deciding who is telling the truth and who is bluffing.

    If juxtaposing two names 50 times is all you need to persuade Philip then we've been vastly overestimating him
    This is Chris PHILP, the spineless junior minister, not the poster fka Philip.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    No, we're a Community.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Roger said:

    .

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    If you had listened to Philp this morning he clearly believes saying Starmer and Savile in the same breath as many times as he can is a vote winner for the Conservatives.

    The question is, are enough of them offended enough to send 55 letters and then vote Johnson down in a VONC? I say no.
    I can understand after Brexit he might think that Johnson voters are iredeemably stupid but that's not quite true. They are as smart as anyone on this board at responding to straightforward evidence and deciding who is telling the truth and who is bluffing.

    If juxtaposing two names 50 times is all you need to persuade Philip then we've been vastly overestimating him


    Indeed.

    UK politicians come a cropper when they assume things work the same here as the US.

    There are huge differences, one of which is that we're by and large not so gullible.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Watching the EU try to claim a place in the medal table was hillarious - when only so many athletes from each country are allowed to enter any given event.

    If they actually competed as the EU, they’d have a small fraction of the number of entrants and medals that the EU nations won separately.
    Yawn.

    Same old bollocks every time.

    Totally ignoring all the medals the EU misses out on in a plethora of team events.
    Assuming of course that such a team would gel as effectively.

    Remember, you can take lots of talented individuals and put them together, but that doesn't make an effective team if they don't get on. Exhibit A - the England cricket team.

    That's not to say it couldn't work, merely that it's not a given.
    Though most winter olympic team events don't seem to be in the ice hockey mold - more a collection of a lot of individuals all doing their events and adding their points up. So team spirit not really a big issue.

    A moot point, anyway. Claiming some sort of moral superiority for the EU over the UK on the grounds that the EU is doing better at winter olympics than the UK is a rather fringe argument. I don't think even Brexit's most ardent cheerleaders claimed that Brexiting would make Britain better at winter olympics. Performance at winter olympics is highly correlated to snow cover in winter, and the UK is towards the bottom end of that league regardless of membership of the EU or otherwise. I mean, I'd be pleased to see Britain win a medal, but if we don't it's not going to make me hanker for EU membership so I can enjoy seeing Sweden, Latvia etc win medals. I don't really see how my pleasure or otherwise at seeing Sweden, Latvia etc win medals is in anyway influenced by our membership of the EU or otherwise. My emotional reaction to seeing a Swede win a medal at winter olympics (which is 'oh, that's nice for him) is EXACTLY the same as it was when that Swede and I shared membership of a trading bloc. It wouldn't really occur to me to deem countries who were not in the same trading bloc in me as baddies, or take pleasure when they lose.
    But if it makes Stuart happy, then I'm happy he's happy.

    Interestingly, I remember a conversation about where different sports sit on the Reamin/Leave axis a couple of years back, on which it was suggested that 'winter olympics' is as Remainy as a sport can be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    By Convention I always win.
  • Heathener said:

    Two observations from the weekly shop today.

    1. Loads of people still wearing masks including outdoors in the high street.

    2. Really, really, noticeable increase in prices. Quite shocked tbh.

    Bare shelves?

    I’m in Jockland next week. Do I have to bring my own comestibles?

    Norrlands pölsa is a poor substitute for Macsween’s glorious sight.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    No, we're a Community.
    Under the rotating medal policy, instead of holding a race to decide the outcome, there is just an annual meeting where each participant takes it in turns to stand on top of the podium.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited February 2022

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    How interesting! My first MacBook lasted 11 years. It went all around the world with me and went through one or two spectacular repairs, which worked. Some of these far eastern backstreet repair people are wizards!

    And I'm currently still running a 2005 iMac which is a simply gorgeous machine in every way. For me more aesthetically beautiful than the newer models: a design of sheer beauty. And it runs like a dream on Catalonia with a fancy drive system I had installed.

    I recently downgraded my iPhone 12 to a 6s in my own version of an anti-capitalist protest and intense dislike of ioS 15. It's quite hard to go backwards with Apple, but I did it and I'm delighted.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
    The full Sue Gray report (if it ever comes out!) is a potential trigger, as is any action by the Met against Boris personally. I agree that the May election isn't likely to be decisive in itself - the comparatives are against a period when Labour was doing well, and the particular councils up for election aren't ones where the Tories will face big losses. Of course, it might serve as an excuse for action, if enough MPs are looking for an excuse.

    I think at present I'd say that it's more likely than not that Boris will limp on, wounded and repeatedly mired in scandal and chaos, with Sue Gray the most likely trigger for action.
    At the moment, most MPs still seem to be in procrastination / "hoping someone else will do the deed" mode. The interesting question is how smoothly can that segue into situation hopeless / "better to let Bozza take the defeat in 2024" mode? And when is the moment of no realistic return?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    Two observations from the weekly shop today.

    1. Loads of people still wearing masks including outdoors in the high street.

    2. Really, really, noticeable increase in prices. Quite shocked tbh.

    Bare shelves?

    I’m in Jockland next week. Do I have to bring my own comestibles?

    Norrlands pölsa is a poor substitute for Macsween’s glorious sight.
    Yes some bizarre empty shelves as well. Today's latest was toothpaste. The other week it was tissues.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    No way would Rees-Mogg be a fan of Earl Grey! The man behind the Great Reform Act.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Heathener said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    How interesting! My first MacBook lasted 11 years. It went all around the world with me and went through one or two spectacular repairs, which worked. Some of these far eastern backstreet repair people are wizards!

    And I'm currently still running a 2005 iMac which is a simply gorgeous machine in every way. For me more aesthetically beautiful than the newer models: a design of sheer beauty. And it runs like a dream on Catalonia with a fancy drive system I had installed.

    I recently downgraded my iPhone 12 to a 6s in my own version of an anti-capitalist protest and intense dislike of ioS 15. It's quite hard to go backwards with Apple, but I did it and I'm delighted.
    What drive system was that? I've got a 2007 iMac I'd quite like to upgrade a bit further (the screen's gone but it works nicely hooked up to my main TV).
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited February 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    I’m told on being appointed, Chris Heaton-Harris told the PM when he was a whip in 🇪🇺 that former MEP Dan Hannan told him his problem was “death by a thousand kindnesses.” A signal to backbenchers unhappy with some whipping tactics, perhaps, he wants to be more carrot than stick.
    https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1491104193012137987
    https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/status/1491045288282583044

    I went to school with him. He did seem to be a genuinely nice guy. I can't help that think that being Chief Whip is an over-promotion of at least a couple of rungs though.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
    Met report and full Sue Gray report still to come of course.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    The reason, is the increasing move to web-based applications, that don’t require Windows as a platform in the way they did a decade ago.

    I can do 95% of my work from an iPad with the new Magic keyboard.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Heathener said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    How interesting! My first MacBook lasted 11 years. It went all around the world with me and went through one or two spectacular repairs, which worked. Some of these far eastern backstreet repair people are wizards!

    And I'm currently still running a 2005 iMac which is a simply gorgeous machine in every way. For me more aesthetically beautiful than the newer models: a design of sheer beauty. And it runs like a dream on Catalonia with a fancy drive system I had installed.

    I recently downgraded my iPhone 12 to a 6s in my own version of an anti-capitalist protest and intense dislike of ioS 15. It's quite hard to go backwards with Apple, but I did it and I'm delighted.
    The older iMacs are interesting because you can replace the hard drive with something better. Well worth it.

    Old Mac laptops go on forever - until you kill them. People laugh at the design decision to go for a forged aluminium mono-block chassis, machined out. But it survives.... a lot.

    OSX is a pretty good flavour of UNIX
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
    The full Sue Gray report (if it ever comes out!) is a potential trigger, as is any action by the Met against Boris personally. I agree that the May election isn't likely to be decisive in itself - the comparatives are against a period when Labour was doing well, and the particular councils up for election aren't ones where the Tories will face big losses. Of course, it might serve as an excuse for action, if enough MPs are looking for an excuse.

    I think at present I'd say that it's more likely than not that Boris will limp on, wounded and repeatedly mired in scandal and chaos, with Sue Gray the most likely trigger for action.
    Gray is a known unknown, as are FPNs. There will be unknown unknowns both already existing under the radar and yet to come, Boris being Boris. There's known knowns, but so many of them you can't keep them all in mind at once, which I suppose makes them unknown knowns. I had completely forgotten the whips being reported for the crime of blackmail ffs.

    I have tried to list current issues, and made up a cricket team without having to think too hard

    Whips blackmail
    Starmer Savile
    Nus Ghani racism
    Gray
    FPNs
    Lying to House about parties
    Kabul
    Lying (not yet to House) about Kabul
    Hari Huawei/security
    Wallpaper
    Other financial stuff Dom offering to spill this week
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    The reason, is the increasing move to web-based applications, that don’t require Windows as a platform in the way they did a decade ago.

    I can do 95% of my work from an iPad with the new Magic keyboard.
    For developers, OSX is a UNIX.

    For non-developers, yes the move to the web has helped a lot.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    I expect my 2021 mac pro will still be running in 2031 and still capable of all but the most intensive tasks.

    I still have my work "business" laptop from 2012 as my employer never asked for it back. It still boots up, but I'd say it's been more or less unusable since 2017. It's slow, and the build quality is such that bits of it are literally held together with sticky tape now. Meanwhile my 2012 macbook air is perfectly serviceable today.

    Pound for pound, in terms of serviceable hours and functional longevity, my 2012 macbook air has been far, far cheaper in the long run.

    The new 14 inch pro is the best laptop I have ever used. It's fast and it feels solid in the hands. Battery life is unbelievable.

    However, I can't let Apple completely off the hook. The previous generation 13 inch with the dodgy keyboard and the emoji bar was a piece of crap. I went through one a year on average as bits kept breaking. Luckily my employer was paying for them, but it was not a premium experience.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Heathener said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    How interesting! My first MacBook lasted 11 years. It went all around the world with me and went through one or two spectacular repairs, which worked. Some of these far eastern backstreet repair people are wizards!

    And I'm currently still running a 2005 iMac which is a simply gorgeous machine in every way. For me more aesthetically beautiful than the newer models: a design of sheer beauty. And it runs like a dream on Catalonia with a fancy drive system I had installed.

    I recently downgraded my iPhone 12 to a 6s in my own version of an anti-capitalist protest and intense dislike of ioS 15. It's quite hard to go backwards with Apple, but I did it and I'm delighted.
    The older iMacs are interesting because you can replace the hard drive with something better. Well worth it.

    Old Mac laptops go on forever - until you kill them. People laugh at the design decision to go for a forged aluminium mono-block chassis, machined out. But it survives.... a lot.

    OSX is a pretty good flavour of UNIX
    I still have a 2012 MPB, with the disk, battery and memory all upgraded over the years. Still works great, if not as the daily any more.

    They are up there with the Lexus LS400 and the cockroach, as things that will survive a nuclear apocalypse.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    No, we're a Community.
    You wouldn’t LIBER to me?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Top story on tonight's news: NHS waiting lists in England to keep on rising for at least another two years.

    Question 1: how long is Javid going to be able to get away with this line?
    Question 2: which taxes are going to be hiked further as the next election comes into view and the Government gets more and more desperate to speed the process up?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Sandpit said:

    Heathener said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The "business" spec thing is bemusing me. Yes of course some manufactures have a dedicated business only series - HP Probook as an example. But I can find several where the "business" one is the same model as the consumer one - series name, chassis, processor, memory etc etc. But the fastest processor options are consumer, with a slower one for business. Or buy the exact same machine but one is business...

    Apple has a much fairer pricing policy of overcharging everyone equally.
    My 10 year old macbook air is still going strong. A bit long in the tooth now for photoshop, video editing etc, but will happily do a day's work in Word, Powerpoint and Google Docs.

    The less said about the previous generation macbook pro with the crappy keyboard the better, but I've got a 2021 14 inch macbook pro for work and it's the fastest, most solidly built laptop I've ever used.
    I got a 2015 MacBook Pro from a former work place. Due to complex reasons, they gave them to us for nearly nothing. A deal, a steal, the sale of the f**king century.

    A lot of startups and small companies are going Mac - it's quite interesting as to why.
    How interesting! My first MacBook lasted 11 years. It went all around the world with me and went through one or two spectacular repairs, which worked. Some of these far eastern backstreet repair people are wizards!

    And I'm currently still running a 2005 iMac which is a simply gorgeous machine in every way. For me more aesthetically beautiful than the newer models: a design of sheer beauty. And it runs like a dream on Catalonia with a fancy drive system I had installed.

    I recently downgraded my iPhone 12 to a 6s in my own version of an anti-capitalist protest and intense dislike of ioS 15. It's quite hard to go backwards with Apple, but I did it and I'm delighted.
    The older iMacs are interesting because you can replace the hard drive with something better. Well worth it.

    Old Mac laptops go on forever - until you kill them. People laugh at the design decision to go for a forged aluminium mono-block chassis, machined out. But it survives.... a lot.

    OSX is a pretty good flavour of UNIX
    I still have a 2012 MPB, with the disk, battery and memory all upgraded over the years. Still works great, if not as the daily any more.

    They are up there with the Lexus LS400 and the cockroach, as things that will survive a nuclear apocalypse.
    Mac minis too (which are basically MacBooks in a tiny desktop case). I'm writing this on a 2014 mini, and next to it I have a bunch of stuff running on a 2010 mini which is still going fine.
  • Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Two observations from the weekly shop today.

    1. Loads of people still wearing masks including outdoors in the high street.

    2. Really, really, noticeable increase in prices. Quite shocked tbh.

    Bare shelves?

    I’m in Jockland next week. Do I have to bring my own comestibles?

    Norrlands pölsa is a poor substitute for Macsween’s glorious sight.
    Yes some bizarre empty shelves as well. Today's latest was toothpaste. The other week it was tissues.
    Ta. Tissues easy peasy due to endless Nordic forests. Toothpaste coming out my ears.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    No, we're a Community.
    Under the rotating medal policy, instead of holding a race to decide the outcome, there is just an annual meeting where each participant takes it in turns to stand on top of the podium.
    When’s Scotland’s turn?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    I think that is spot-on, by the guy who used to run polling for No 10 under Theresa May.

    In other words, the respondents to the poll questions aren't really answering them as such, they are answering a different question: are you fed up with Boris?

    Tory MPs are not yet fed up with him.

    They are the only voters he cares about now
    Yes, for now that's the only thing that matters. But I'm sure that they are fed up with him; they just don't know whether it's better to put up with it, or risk taking action.
    I think he's now safe till after the recess, and probably until May. I'm not convinced that the May election will be decisive either - most MPs don't really care about councillors, though they'll squint at the national equivalent vote count. But one more big scandal would probably get the 54 letter level.
    It's going to be a pretty forgiving set of elections, in England anyway - urban councils which are still safe Labour, plus only a third of the seats in a number of shire districts and unitaries. I don't see that many councils changing hands unless there's some scandal involving Dilyn the dog two days before polling.

    Wales and Scotland might be a bit more interesting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    While waiting for something to happen, one for the space tech fans...

    image
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    By Convention I always win.
    That must be a real Treaty for you.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    Anecdata. Might be representative, might not be.
    If you break it down one believes Johnson, one neutral, two think he's a liar. Not great but cd be worse.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    Anecdata. Might be representative, might not be.
    Seems logical though. The slur worked in the way it was designed. Like vote leave’s Turkey joining the EU.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    While waiting for something to happen, one for the space tech fans...

    image

    Looks interesting but nothing happens when I prod it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Evening’ All!
    With apologies to the late Sgt Dixon.
    Just come back from watching Belfast. Poor bastards! On both sides.

    I see Jacob RM has got a very part-time job
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    I suggest a hint of sarcasm there.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    @dixiedean good luck tonight. The toon is buzzing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    By Convention I always win.
    That must be a real Treaty for you.
    Although sometimes I court disaster.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    Anecdata. Might be representative, might not be.
    I thought the headline wasn’t really supported by the evidence in the story.

    My Dad pointed out one of the problems with fox popping to me years ago because something happened that wound him up. It was something slightly controversial about football club, a local media went out one weekday morning vox popping, and put together really negative headline and story based on what they found. But they didn’t actually talk to any fans who go to the games, just a load of old ladies doing shopping, “business owners” shop keepers, taxi driver etc, etc. My Dad said vox popping doesn’t always sample representatively enough because people, like the football fans in that particular instance, are in work.

    So when papers do a story like the one linked, or Sky spend a day on a constituency, or BBC go to the place where next weeks election is held, you can see with your own eyes how flawed and waste of time it is, because they rarely get to the cross section of people in work, it’s so often laughably imbalanced.

    Tell me I’m wrong. PBs good at doing that 🙂
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited February 2022
    Ok might be a bit controversial here so bear with it but the whole saga is stupid

    My thoughts:-
    If Johnson really thinks the population is that obsessed with Saville to the extent that dissing Starmer about it will have a big effect he is wrong- Most balanced people do not obsess about Saville.

    That said i am not sure I agree that the PM and the leader of the opposition cannot have a go at each other and must always play gentlemen . So dont really understand the twitter rage it seems to have caused .

    Whilst it is unpleasant and the crowd seemed to be made up of obsessive losers , I dont think Starmer got any worse treatment than say Peter Hitchens did when he walked home in Oxford and was followed by lefty protesters (and he had a lot less police protection) -Peter shrugged it off as part of the "job" .Starmer should.

    The whole episode from start to finish is pathetic frankly
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error. Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday, because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    Johnson Troll!!
    According to the Guardian I am reading this right.

    The Guardian reporter sent to Starmer's constituency today to sound out the voters was surprised to learn that there was little support for Starmer "He didn't prosecute Savile".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Carnyx said:

    While waiting for something to happen, one for the space tech fans...

    image

    Looks interesting but nothing happens when I prod it?
    First detailed picture of Raptor 2 - the new SpaceX engine. Much cleaner design - reminiscent of the Merlin 1-D upgrade where a lot of small pipework was got rid of. Look like they went for long and slimmer - but that is no surprise given how many engines they are trying to pack in a limited space....
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    Anecdata. Might be representative, might not be.
    If you break it down one believes Johnson, one neutral, two think he's a liar. Not great but cd be worse.
    In SKS's constituency, in fairness.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    edited February 2022
    So the lovable clown has become a nasty clown in the eyes of the public?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited February 2022

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    I think you're very wrong if you think this is harming Starmer more than Johnson. Quite the reverse. This has done Starmer a favour. Once the 'honest broker' resigned in disgust there could only be one winner. The public had no idea who did or said what until the resignation followed by days of hand wringing from the BBC.

    After that it was a done deal. I'd go further and say it added to the notion that Starmer is a straight dealer and that Johnson isn't. It's always the case that publicity benefits the market leader and Johnson is always going to be the market leader in telling lies
    THIS suggests that - for surely the first ever time in PB history - you are completely wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/08/they-all-blame-each-other-little-sympathy-for-starmer-after-savile-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
    Anecdata. Might be representative, might not be.
    I thought the headline wasn’t really supported by the evidence in the story.

    My Dad pointed out one of the problems with fox popping to me years ago because something happened that wound him up. It was something slightly controversial about football club, a local media went out one weekday morning vox popping, and put together really negative headline and story based on what they found. But they didn’t actually talk to any fans who go to the games, just a load of old ladies doing shopping, “business owners” shop keepers, taxi driver etc, etc. My Dad said vox popping doesn’t always sample representatively enough because people, like the football fans in that particular instance, are in work.

    So when papers do a story like the one linked, or Sky spend a day on a constituency, or BBC go to the place where next weeks election is held, you can see with your own eyes how flawed and waste of time it is, because they rarely get to the cross section of people in work, it’s so often laughably imbalanced.

    Tell me I’m wrong. PBs good at doing that 🙂
    Fox popping is just WRONG
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Lovin the medal table.

    European good guys 1
    European good guys 2
    Evil empire 1
    European good guys 3
    Jävla norrmännen
    European good guys 4
    Evil empire 2
    European good guys 5
    European good guys 6
    European good guys 7

    Clownland zilch

    Scotland 0/1, with two to come.
    Aha! So, now they’re “Scotland” are they? Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
    Because the Scottish curlers are automatically the "GB" representatives at the Olympics...
    GB when winning.
    Scotland when losing.
    Rings a bell.

    Linford Christie’s gold was automatically a victory for the European Union.

    Political unions. Tremendous fun.
    Um, the EU (est. 1 November 1993) didn't exist when Linford Christie won his gold (1 August 1992), you muppet.
    Does EC it the same way you do?
    EEC what he wants to see.
    I think we missed our coal in life.
    I’m steeling myself for the next dreadful pun.
    Then you're in luck that you're competing with me and I never make dreadful puns.

    Unless I am Commissioned to, of course.
    It’s a competition? I am obviously subsidiarity to you.
    No, we're a Community.
    Under the rotating medal policy, instead of holding a race to decide the outcome, there is just an annual meeting where each participant takes it in turns to stand on top of the podium.
    When’s Scotland’s turn?
    In the Commonwealth Games.

    image
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    It is hard to deal with the scale of the crime of the current level of indifference
  • Boris is a [moderated].

    Who knew?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Chris said:

    So the lovable clown has become a nasty clown in the eyes of the public?

    Yes. The mask has fallen.

    And as many posters pointing out today, Johnson’s Corbynesque polling is impacting how everything is being viewed by the electorate.

    “Government are giving you £600 back in tax cut!”
    “Don’t like it. Don’t like them. What a load of Rubbish. Get them out.”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited February 2022
    Woakes and Pope? Really?

    These selectors are even madder than the last lot!
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,941

    Ok might be a bit controversial here so bear with it but the whole saga is stupid

    My thoughts:-
    If Johnson really thinks the population is that obsessed with Saville to the extent that dissing Starmer about it will have a big effect he is wrong- Most balanced people do not obsess about Saville.

    That said i am not sure I agree that the PM and the leader of the opposition cannot have a go at each other and must always play gentlemen . So dont really understand the twitter rage it seems to have caused .

    Whilst it is unpleasant and the crowd seemed to be made up of obsessive losers , I dont think Starmer got any worse treatment than say Peter Hitchens did when he walked home in Oxford and was followed by lefty protesters (and he had a lot less police protection) -Peter shrugged it off as part of the "job" .Starmer should.

    The whole episode from start to finish is pathetic frankly

    The people who followed Peter Hitchens menacingly weren't encouraged to do so by the prime minster though, were they?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Heathener said:

    Boris is toast.

    But rather like one of those hotel toasters, he keeps going round again and again.

    All getting darker each time he does.

    Johnson looks to be anything but toast to me.

    His scorched earth gamble was looking like an error late last week, but after yesterday he can see that Starmer's name is now inextricably linked to Savile's, hence his and Philp's doubling down today.

    Johnson is very confident he's comprehensively won this. He survives and the Starmer brand well and truly trashed.
    Just bear in mind, everyone, that MexicanPete is the person who thought Johnson's slur about Jimmy Savile was ...

    "funny"

    And MexicanPete then continued to repeat this for the following 48 hours.
    When did I say it was "funny"?

    I said on Monday week it was an effective line by Johnson. I later though it was an error. Johnson is doubling down on this today by not apologising after events yesterday, because he can see that on every news report, every demand for an apology is met with Starmer and Savile in the same sentence. Chris Philp must have repeated Starmer and Savile in the same sentence a dozen times on R4 Today.

    Whatever the cynicism of Johnson's initial statement he now understands this is working for him. If you can't see this is hurting Starmer more than Johnson you are deluded.
    Johnson Troll!!
    According to the Guardian I am reading this right.

    The Guardian reporter sent to Starmer's constituency today to sound out the voters was surprised to learn that there was little support for Starmer "He didn't prosecute Savile".
    Have you actually read it? The opposite is true in the report. And is that all they sampled, five people? LOL.
This discussion has been closed.