Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
Hint - it is never the crime that gets you but the cover up.
I suspect the issue is deleting emails or something similar after being told not to...
That would maybe make the plot line a little less nonsensical. Otherwise, this police "investigation" should take all of a morning with time for coffee and biscuits at 11. Just cross reference the SG report to the relevant legislation.
How many staff (if any) did Sue Gray have at her disposal? Surely the Met should be able to turn round this investigation by the end of next week. Doesn’t exactly require Sherlock does it.
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
Hint - it is never the crime that gets you but the cover up.
I suspect the issue is deleting emails or something similar after being told not to...
That would maybe make the plot line a little less nonsensical. Otherwise, this police "investigation" should take all of a morning with time for coffee and biscuits at 11. Just cross reference the SG report to the relevant legislation.
How many staff (if any) did Sue Gray have at her disposal? Surely the Met should be able to turn round this investigation by the end of next week. Doesn’t exactly require Sherlock does it.
No this is a three pipe problem and will take them months if that is what is required to save Johnson's skin.
I am very cynical about this now. Banana republic level crap today.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You said “an average holiday to Spain for a family would probably cost under £1000”
That’s a holiday in what looks like a converted prison, with no pool (use the one next door!), AND it is over £1000 AND it is only B&B, so you have to feed everyone as well.
And you have to get to and from Gatwick airport. And it is in the 1st week of July, not the actual family holiday month of august. In reality, that’s gonna end up costing nearer £2000
Just face it, you said something silly. Happens to us all
Only 1 parent skis, plans to teach the other parent and a 5,7 and 8 year old for a weeks skiing holiday on a mountain.
Oh wow. Were it not Mumsnet (aka Prosecco Stormfront) I'd think that was a spoof.
"I have watched some YouTube videos to try and learn the basics"
Though as ever... despite the question being firmly answered within the first few posts, everyone has to come in for a pile-on.
Wait til they explain that to further cut costs they booked a flight without a pilot as the 7 year old is actually pretty nifty on Ace Combat on his PS4.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You quoted room only
Again you have not taken a family away on holiday as you clearly do not understand that food, drink, entertainment, excursions and insurance adds hugely to that quote
The time will come when you will be cheering Rishi to the rafters
I am doing other things at the same time. You don't need flights to travel in the UK.
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and hotels and b and bs and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
Hint - it is never the crime that gets you but the cover up.
I suspect the issue is deleting emails or something similar after being told not to...
That would maybe make the plot line a little less nonsensical. Otherwise, this police "investigation" should take all of a morning with time for coffee and biscuits at 11. Just cross reference the SG report to the relevant legislation.
How many staff (if any) did Sue Gray have at her disposal? Surely the Met should be able to turn round this investigation by the end of next week. Doesn’t exactly require Sherlock does it.
Nor even Watson. Gray has already done the work and written it all up. Even the slowest plod in history - Barnaby from Midsomer - could wrap up the case in a couple of days.
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had. Johnson and Dick acting to save each other’s skins?
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
Hint - it is never the crime that gets you but the cover up.
I suspect the issue is deleting emails or something similar after being told not to...
But if you are deleting emails (before plod was involved) them you are deleting emails about parking in the wrong place or somesuch minor infringement big deal.
It’s literally impossible to actually delete emails from any government system. They will have been backed up hourly, and the ‘delete’ mailbox isn’t actually deleted for several days afterwards.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You quoted room only
Again you have not taken a family away on holiday as you clearly do not understand that food, drink, entertainment, excursions and insurance adds hugely to that quote
The time will come when you will be cheering Rishi to the rafters
I am doing other things at the same time. You don't need flights to travel in the UK.
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
Why not just say you were wrong rather than dig deeper
We all make mistakes and sometimes it is good to just own up
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
Hint - it is never the crime that gets you but the cover up.
I suspect the issue is deleting emails or something similar after being told not to...
That would maybe make the plot line a little less nonsensical. Otherwise, this police "investigation" should take all of a morning with time for coffee and biscuits at 11. Just cross reference the SG report to the relevant legislation.
How many staff (if any) did Sue Gray have at her disposal? Surely the Met should be able to turn round this investigation by the end of next week. Doesn’t exactly require Sherlock does it.
Nor even Watson. Gray has already done the work and written it all up. Even the slowest plod in history - Barnaby from Midsomer - could wrap up the case in a couple of days.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
How do you think Corbyn would have reacted
He'd have acted fast to arrange a press conference highlighting the issue of retired Chilean cobblers who had been adversely affected by Pinochet's policies in the 1980s.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You quoted room only
Again you have not taken a family away on holiday as you clearly do not understand that food, drink, entertainment, excursions and insurance adds hugely to that quote
The time will come when you will be cheering Rishi to the rafters
I am doing other things at the same time. You don't need flights to travel in the UK.
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and hotels and b and bs and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
However like many such people, it's probably hard to disentangle business from pleasure: e.g. he may go somewhere nice with the kids and have a few meetings, and call it 'working'.
Like Bill Gates reading every line of Microsoft's code, or Steve Jobs designing everything Apple made, it's rubbish.
I know someone that has met him a few times, so I am not sure it is. He is a one off, and not necessarily in a good way.
For a man worth seven trillion dollars, Musk is weirdly and easily annoyed by minor people on Twitter with 6 followers. Quite strange
He is a very weird dude all-round...the few long form interviews he has done with Joe Rogan and Lex Fridman only reinforces that.
Indeed, but we definitely need more Elon Musks in the world.
The Fridman interview especially, is worth watching.
The comments I've had from past colleagues who actually met him, is that there seem to be two Elon's. Bored Elon = Bad Elon. Better Elon is when he has something to do - preferably solving a numerical or physical problem.
Oh wow. Didn’t see these before, there goes my evening
Love what SpaceX are doing, it’s truly groundbreaking work for humanity, the likes of which we last saw in the 1960s.
Tim Dodd (the Everyday Astronaut) is generally excellent.
Indeed so, this is a good watch so far. I’ve generally been a Scott Manley guy when it comes to space Youtube stuff.
Musk is very relaxed when asked the more technical questions, in the way that you never usually see a CEO in their workplace, surrounded as they normally are by lawyers and PRs.
On a slightly different topic, the Fridman interview with Musk referenced the idea that Fridman might have an interview set up with Putin (Fridman is of Russian origin). That would be astonishing if he could pull it off, but I have a feeling the Ukranian situation might have put paid to it.
One of the best bits is when the the guy in charge of the launch mount building tells Musk they screwed up the design a bit, but they are getting back on schedule by flying in parts.
You tell the world's richest man you fucked up and wasted some of his money.
Musk replies that the initial design is going to be wrong anyway - until they work out the right one. And just nods...
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
Don’t use Starmer, use Khan.
There’s a recent precident for the Mayor having a disagreement with the Commissioner.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
Having successfully delayed Gray for another weekend... Met are looking at issuing a statement explaining their use of the word "prejudice" when asking for the Sue Gray report to be watered down. They say its use was unfortunate and open to interpretation. Yup. https://twitter.com/TownsendMark/status/1487112939513552898
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You quoted room only
Again you have not taken a family away on holiday as you clearly do not understand that food, drink, entertainment, excursions and insurance adds hugely to that quote
The time will come when you will be cheering Rishi to the rafters
I am doing other things at the same time. You don't need flights to travel in the UK.
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and hotels and b and bs and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
An all inclusive package holiday to….. Swansea?
That’s innovative
Yes, indeed. The intelligent folk go to Penarth.
The thought of W-s-M does remind me irresistibly of this particular family holiday
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
Don’t use Starmer, use Khan.
There’s a recent precident for the Mayor having a disagreement with the Commissioner.
I think that Knhan binning the Commissioner over the handling of an investigation. In the middle of the investigation. An investigation of No. 10, held by the opposite party.... Would be incredibly stupid.
Short of Starmer standing up and announcing that he was joining the Conservative Party, I can't think of anything more stupid or takes more pressure off BJ, by starting a political fight about political interference with the police.
Arresting Damien Greene was a sensible idea, in comparison.
Having successfully delayed Gray for another weekend... Met are looking at issuing a statement explaining their use of the word "prejudice" when asking for the Sue Gray report to be watered down. They say its use was unfortunate and open to interpretation. Yup. https://twitter.com/TownsendMark/status/1487112939513552898
Time for Sue Gray to release the report now in the public interest
When the Met start clarifying you know they are struggling
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
More to your point, Johnson and his lackeys don't respect the law - at best it's pettifogging, at worst the law is for little people, not the likes of him. On any reasonable objective view Starmer's Labour is head and shoulders above Johnson's Tories on the Law and Order question, but the electorate don't necessarily see it that way.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You quoted room only
Again you have not taken a family away on holiday as you clearly do not understand that food, drink, entertainment, excursions and insurance adds hugely to that quote
The time will come when you will be cheering Rishi to the rafters
I am doing other things at the same time. You don't need flights to travel in the UK.
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and hotels and b and bs and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
2 weeks in Benidorm for 2 adults and 2 children in July for £761 here
You can pompously pontificate as much as you want but Boris is staying, tough.
If you want to go off and vote LD be my guest, as soon as the going gets a bit tough for the Tories you are off half the time anyway, as when you voted for Blair and New Labour in 1997 and 2001.
You are no better than a Man United glory hunter!
You quoted room only
Again you have not taken a family away on holiday as you clearly do not understand that food, drink, entertainment, excursions and insurance adds hugely to that quote
The time will come when you will be cheering Rishi to the rafters
I am doing other things at the same time. You don't need flights to travel in the UK.
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and hotels and b and bs and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
Don’t use Starmer, use Khan.
There’s a recent precident for the Mayor having a disagreement with the Commissioner.
That doesn't address the point I'm making. Whether it's Khan or Starmer or anyone else, the risk is that the debate is reframed as a Labour attack on the Police, and a Tory defence. I'd let Davey and Blackford lead the charge on the Police aspect and limit myself to generalisms about the need for a prompt conclusion and concerns over government transparency and honesty at this stage.
To me this doesn't actually seem likely to be a conspiracy (although the suspicion will hang around it). I think Cressida Dick is just very bad at her job and lacks basic political sense - that's hardly news, to be honest, as we've known it a long time.
WASHINGTON, Jan 28 (Reuters) - Russia's military buildup near Ukraine has expanded to include supplies of blood along with other medical materials that would allow it to treat casualties, in yet another key indicator of Moscow's military readiness, three U.S. officials tell Reuters.
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
Don’t use Starmer, use Khan.
There’s a recent precident for the Mayor having a disagreement with the Commissioner.
I think that Khan binning the Commissioner over the handling of an investigation. In the middle of the investigation. An investigation of No. 10, held by the opposite party.... Would be incredibly stupid.
Short of Starmer standing up and announcing that he was joining the Conservative Party, I can't think of anything more stupid or takes more pressure off BJ, by starting a political fight about political interference with the police.
Arresting Damien Greene was a sensible idea, in comparison.
Khan missed his chance to urge the removal of Dick at the time of her reappointment. He is at present powerless in the matter, as you say.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
It is fairly obvious Boris will have to resign if he gets a fixed penalty notice but of course if he does not then he would be in the clear
Since that was published, though, the police issued a statement saying they were only investigating penalty notices, and then just below another one saying they didn't mean for people to get wrong the idea of "prejudicing" an investigation. Whatever's going on, it's very, very odd.
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
It's totally scanning for me. Not in a good way.
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had.
That is what's so strange. It looks so obvious. Could they really have been that dumb ?
I guess they could. Although I'm a strong 'cock up over conspiracy' merchant I'm certainly not rejecting the possibility - the Met abusing their position at the behest of Boris Johnson to try and save the political skin of Boris Johnson. Could be. And what an absolute shocker if so. That's bone deep corruption in the very highest places. But I'm not quite buying it. Not yet anyway. I sense the answer might be something else - just not sure what.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime.
If he said to an aide "tidy up my phone messages so there's nothing embarrassing" to a barrack room lawyer that could ultimately look like conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and possibly misconduct in public office if he's denied that under caution.
No doubt real lawyers will be along to put me right shortly....
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
It is fairly obvious Boris will have to resign if he gets a fixed penalty notice but of course if he does not then he would be in the clear
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
It's totally scanning for me. Not in a good way.
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had.
That is what's so strange. It looks so obvious. Could they really have been that dumb ?
I guess they could. Although I'm a strong 'cock up over conspiracy' merchant I'm certainly not rejecting the possibility - the Met abusing their position at the behest of Boris Johnson to try and save the political skin of Boris Johnson. Could be. And what an absolute shocker if so. That's bone deep corruption in the very highest places. But I'm not quite buying it. Not yet anyway. I sense the answer might be something else - just not sure what.
I don't understand what the Met (prop: S Khan) gets from saving Boris.
Since that was published, though, the police issued a statement saying they were only investigating penalty notices.
Their comment that the investigation was "in the public interest" has turned out to be laughable. No doubt claims of "lessons to be learned" will ensue, though what those might be, and whether anything is to be learned will remain obscure, as was the case for every previous cockup involving the Met.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
Ah yes - I agree. Recoverable but only under new leadership
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
It is fairly obvious Boris will have to resign if he gets a fixed penalty notice but of course if he does not then he would be in the clear
But not in the court of public opinion
Not in the clear - LYING TO PARLIAMENT.
I am not sure in those circumstances he would have that problem on this matter
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
It's totally scanning for me. Not in a good way.
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had.
That is what's so strange. It looks so obvious. Could they really have been that dumb ?
I guess they could. Although I'm a strong 'cock up over conspiracy' merchant I'm certainly not rejecting the possibility - the Met abusing their position at the behest of Boris Johnson to try and save the political skin of Boris Johnson. Could be. And what an absolute shocker if so. That's bone deep corruption in the very highest places. But I'm not quite buying it. Not yet anyway. I sense the answer might be something else - just not sure what.
The plausible deniability in this case, and the imperviousness of the Met to either common sense or public opinion doesn't make it particularly unbelievable to me.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime.
If he said to an aide "tidy up my phone messages so there's nothing embarrassing" to a barrack room lawyer that could ultimately look like conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and possibly misconduct in public office if he's denied that under caution.
No doubt real lawyers will be along to put me right shortly....
Let me choose my words more carefully. I doubt the Met are carrying out investigations that will lead to Johnson being charged for a serious misdemeanour. As I say, that should not let him off the hook for the real issue of his undermining the integrity and accountability of government.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime.
If he said to an aide "tidy up my phone messages so there's nothing embarrassing" to a barrack room lawyer that could ultimately look like conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and possibly misconduct in public office if he's denied that under caution.
No doubt real lawyers will be along to put me right shortly....
Let me choose my words more carefully. I doubt the Met are carrying out investigations that will lead to Johnson being charged for a serious misdemeanour. As I say, that should not let him off the hook for the real issue of his undermining the integrity and accountability of government.
Well as of earlier this afternoon it seems they've said thay're quite clear that they're not. Their statements, or at least taken with statements describing the police, too, by government, seem to contradicted each other on and off since Tuesday.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
"This property is [...] 1.5 miles from Grand Theatre, 1.4 miles from Swansea Beach and 1.5 miles from Cathedral Church of St Joseph [...] and 1.2 miles from Swansea Magistrates."
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
Most of the evening can be spent eating out and on the town or seeing a show at Swansea Theatre.
Indeed if even Benidorm becomes too expensive in the height of summer, I suspect more and more families will spend their summers at beach resorts in the UK and maybe only go to Spain in the autumn or winter when it is cheaper but still warmer than the UK
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
It is fairly obvious Boris will have to resign if he gets a fixed penalty notice but of course if he does not then he would be in the clear
But not in the court of public opinion
Not in the clear - LYING TO PARLIAMENT.
I am not sure in those circumstances he would have that problem on this matter
Yes, he would. He told the House he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. It doesn't need him to get a police conviction for this to be shown to be a lie.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
It is fairly obvious Boris will have to resign if he gets a fixed penalty notice but of course if he does not then he would be in the clear
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
How do you think Corbyn would have reacted
He'd have organised a march.
The way I feel just now I may have joined it, but then maybe my mobility would be an issue but I could hold up a cardboard notice
As the day has gone on my anger with the Met has only increased
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
Hopefully enough outraged people will peel away from Johnson to ensure the Tories are comprehensively trashed at the next election. I have no particular animus against the Conservative Party, but hooliganism should have consequences.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
How do you think Corbyn would have reacted
He'd have organised a march.
The way I feel just now I may have joined it, but then maybe my mobility would be an issue but I could hold up a cardboard notice
As the day has gone on my anger with the Met has only increased
The longer they can drag it out the better it is for Johnson, not so much for Sunak.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
Hopefully enough outraged people will peel away from Johnson to ensure the Tories are comprehensively trashed at the next election. I have no particular animus against the Conservative Party, but hooliganism should have consequences.
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
It's totally scanning for me. Not in a good way.
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had.
That is what's so strange. It looks so obvious. Could they really have been that dumb ?
I guess they could. Although I'm a strong 'cock up over conspiracy' merchant I'm certainly not rejecting the possibility - the Met abusing their position at the behest of Boris Johnson to try and save the political skin of Boris Johnson. Could be. And what an absolute shocker if so. That's bone deep corruption in the very highest places. But I'm not quite buying it. Not yet anyway. I sense the answer might be something else - just not sure what.
The plausible deniability in this case, and the imperviousness of the Met to either common sense or public opinion doesn't make it particularly unbelievable to me.
No, I'm not finding it unbelievable either. I'm between believing it and not. Maybe 30/70.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
So what?
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
To be honest I am at the stage that most any leader the conservative mps and members elect would be a relief
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
Hopefully enough outraged people will peel away from Johnson to ensure the Tories are comprehensively trashed at the next election. I have no particular animus against the Conservative Party, but hooliganism should have consequences.
Or replace Boris
Indeed. The best placed person amongst Tories to be Not Johnson is Sunak. I don't particularly rate him, but Sunak is the most credible, and available, leaf-turner in the Conservative stable.
I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.
Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.
Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.
My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?
Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
It does, on UNS on the new boundaries even a 9% Labour lead only leads to Labour 309 seats and Tories 246.
Labour still 17 short of a majority. Plus Starmer Labour is still not seen as as centrist as Blair's New Labour by the middle classes, even if not as bad as Corbyn Labour. So while they might tactically vote LD, they are much less likely to tactically vote Labour.
I am not, there is a 99% chance Starmer will not become PM with a majority in my view, even if he becomes PM with LD and SNP support in a hung parliament
I don't dispute that because of Scotland, but when you get to 6 to 7 percent all sorts of permutations come into play. You should be more concerned at the LD improvement today because you now have Labour to contend with on your left flank and the LDs to contend with on your not quite so left flank.
Indeed. I remember being laughed at incredulously by some Tory friends (who thought they knew better) in advance of the 2015 election when I said I thought Cameron would get a small majority. Maybe it was a lucky guess (and I did milk it afterwards), but I think there is a reasonable chance Labour will get a majority after the next one. (Waiting for HY to start a response with "no")
If Labour want to increase their chances of a majority, they need to persuade Slab to stop shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to alienate their former voters who are not as anti an Indyref as their leaders. If Starmer can do that, he will have a better chance.
Only has to order them to [edit] shut up and love indyref2. It's not as if Slab were separate or anything. Jenny Formby could yank Kezia Dugdale's chain simply by cutting off the money and did (over KD's court case).
The problem may be more in England, given the Tories' obvious reaction.
I've read (think it was the Times) that Labour's strategy is to consistently bash the SNP and Sturgeon till the next election, because it'll convince swing voters in Lab-Con marginals that there won't be a deal with the SNP. When Starmer brought out that line about someone in Scotland needing a blood transfusion not caring about where the blood came from, the target audience probably wasn't pro-independence voters in Scotland.
Mm, yes, that sounds logical. But he's still storing up trouble for the future - not just in Scotland. Problem is that if he tries to out-Unionist the Tories he can't win that particular battle, and he will lose voters to the SNP and Tories (and Scottish Greens, when Holyrood comes round again: he had a good go at bashing them a few months back).
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
So what?
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
How do you think Corbyn would have reacted
He'd have organised a march.
The way I feel just now I may have joined it, but then maybe my mobility would be an issue but I could hold up a cardboard notice
As the day has gone on my anger with the Met has only increased
The comforting thing is that given their history, it will rebound on them, and probably end up with more mud on BJ.
On the holidays topic - the people using the"expensive" hotels are either (like me) using massively discounted margins or they are (generally) taking out huge amounts of debt for such holidays.
It's like asking where the money is for the £50K cars you see rolling around.... either bought second hand for a lot less, or bought with borrowed money on savage terms....
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
So what?
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
So what? It is an indicator that when someone used to be an activist for the Conservative Party (me) will not vote for them while Johnson is leader they are in trouble, that is what! If you can't grasp that then I do wonder why you bother posting.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.
I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
That moron is the scum of the earth, most obnoxious cretin on the site.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.
I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
There were plenty that weren't!
That is a nasty insinuation about Scots, which I hope you might withdraw. I love Scotland and the Scottish people. I don't like 3 of the Nats on here because they regularly post things that are unpleasantly anti-English so they get what they deserve. I am not aware of any occasion that I have been rude to you because you express your desire for independence in a civilised way.
I'll withdraw that, yes, but with the provision that you did give Malcolm a rough time recently quite unfairly (for a perfectly innocuous discussion of matters).
Re the medics, indeed, but it's been interesting to see the rise in the campaign against such things, and the increasing insistence on formal statements in research papers.
Sorry to say, but Malcolm is the rudest person here. He is an obnoxious bore and his unswerving fealty to Alex Salmond makes him a hypocrite when he attacks other politicians with his inarticulate garbage. That said, I think my kicking of him is less severe and less of a pile on than you have regularly given to HYUFD who is significantly less deserving of it than Malcolm.
Change the record scumbag , you have not even enough intelligence to alter your pathetic drivelling. Spend some of your JSA on educating yourself. As ever F Off scumbag and keep doing it. I doubt you could kick yourself in the arse never mind your delusion that you even scratch the surface with me. Not even your mother could love a cretin like you. PS: Nastiest Little Englander on the site and pretending you like Scots is a laugh, GIRUYYFOF
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
So what?
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
So what? It is an indicator that when someone used to be an activist for the Conservative Party (me) will not vote for them while Johnson is leader they are in trouble, that is what! If you can't grasp that then I do wonder why you bother posting.
"It is an indicator that when someone used to be an activist for the Conservative Party (me) will not vote for them"
The mere fact you were an activist makes you a minority and someone who spends a lot more time thinking about politics than most people do. It's like hearing those people who rave about Squid Game on Netflix when 5m+ still watch Corrie. You are a minority and not representative of the general population.
"President Vladimir Putin has told his French counterpart that the West has ignored Russia's security concerns - US and Nato responses did not take account of such key Russian concerns as preventing Nato expansion, non-deployment of strike weapons systems near Russian borders, or returning the alliance's military potential and infrastructure in Europe to positions existing in 1997," a Kremlin readout of the call said.
If you don't turn the clock back 25 years, we shall be forced, forced I say, to invade another country. And past promises not being kept is totally the same thing as invading Ukraine.
Stephen Bush @stephenkb · 4h Yet to see a poll or sit in on a focus group where it's not clear that people a) think that the allegations are true and b) expect there to be some kind of fix or cover-up.
The public get a lot wrong or misunderstand a lot, but occasionally they absolutely nail it.
And even if they're not right (NARRATOR: they are), it doesn't really matter. Once the public are set in a belief, it's damn hard to shift them.
The government ratings have bounced up off the worst of the precipice. But it will never be glad confident morning for Bozza again.
Dead cat bounce, just wait and see the effect of this latest nonsense
Actually, although we have had our differences on this matter, I think there could be something in this. The delay/dilution just looks terrible. It's the sort of thing that cuts through: er, why are they doing this now?
Starmer should be attacking the Met as it is clearly an utter nonsense, but then he is compromised by his connections to the Met and the CPS
If I were Leader of the Labour Party, I'd think VERY long and hard before attacking the Met.
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I doubt Johnson has committed a serious crime. The issue is he is unfit for office and acts to undermine good governance. It is a political issue that needs to be resolved through political judgment. The real risk is he can get away with saying, the poIice don't think I committed a serious crime so it's all fine.
It is fairly obvious Boris will have to resign if he gets a fixed penalty notice but of course if he does not then he would be in the clear
But not in the court of public opinion
Not in the clear - LYING TO PARLIAMENT.
Yeah but lying to parliament is fine now because of Brexit and owning the Libs and Boris is just Boris and look he got the big calls right and let's focus on Levelling Up Ukraine not this Westminster village pyramid of piffle and he's a leader not a lawyer and only lawyers are into this he said she said truth and untruth rhubarb. Am I getting the hang of this?
The big lesson from all this is that we need a written constitution that can only be overridden by a super majority (two-thirds) vote in either Parliament or by referendum. Now we've had one PM in Downing Street getting away with the kind of grift and dishonesty Johnson has, others will be encouraged to do the same unless enforceable checks are put in place.
Evening all! Mega week this has been - so much good progress with work tasks and feeling appreciated and empowered. The contrast to some of the gloom horror that sunk me at times last year is clear.
I even managed to listen to @Gardenwalker and others talking about food and have been doing daytime fasts and lunchtime walks. Feel great!
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
Hint - it is never the crime that gets you but the cover up.
I suspect the issue is deleting emails or something similar after being told not to...
That would maybe make the plot line a little less nonsensical. Otherwise, this police "investigation" should take all of a morning with time for coffee and biscuits at 11. Just cross reference the SG report to the relevant legislation.
How many staff (if any) did Sue Gray have at her disposal? Surely the Met should be able to turn round this investigation by the end of next week. Doesn’t exactly require Sherlock does it.
Nor even Watson. Gray has already done the work and written it all up. Even the slowest plod in history - Barnaby from Midsomer - could wrap up the case in a couple of days.
Barnaby is only slow as he has a two hour slot to fill on TV. He has an excuse.
However like many such people, it's probably hard to disentangle business from pleasure: e.g. he may go somewhere nice with the kids and have a few meetings, and call it 'working'.
Like Bill Gates reading every line of Microsoft's code, or Steve Jobs designing everything Apple made, it's rubbish.
I know someone that has met him a few times, so I am not sure it is. He is a one off, and not necessarily in a good way.
For a man worth seven trillion dollars, Musk is weirdly and easily annoyed by minor people on Twitter with 6 followers. Quite strange
He is a very weird dude all-round...the few long form interviews he has done with Joe Rogan and Lex Fridman only reinforces that.
Indeed, but we definitely need more Elon Musks in the world.
The Fridman interview especially, is worth watching.
The comments I've had from past colleagues who actually met him, is that there seem to be two Elon's. Bored Elon = Bad Elon. Better Elon is when he has something to do - preferably solving a numerical or physical problem.
Oh wow. Didn’t see these before, there goes my evening
Love what SpaceX are doing, it’s truly groundbreaking work for humanity, the likes of which we last saw in the 1960s.
Tim Dodd (the Everyday Astronaut) is generally excellent.
Indeed so, this is a good watch so far. I’ve generally been a Scott Manley guy when it comes to space Youtube stuff.
Musk is very relaxed when asked the more technical questions, in the way that you never usually see a CEO in their workplace, surrounded as they normally are by lawyers and PRs.
On a slightly different topic, the Fridman interview with Musk referenced the idea that Fridman might have an interview set up with Putin (Fridman is of Russian origin). That would be astonishing if he could pull it off, but I have a feeling the Ukranian situation might have put paid to it.
Scott Manley is excellent. Five or so years ago, he did a video where he chatted with David Braben (of Elite fame) over a pint.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
So what?
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
Just think, most people on here last week were convinced that BJ was about to go. And he is still here, and looking more likely by the hour he will stay.
Prince Andrew blackballed from the Royal and Ancient. Sometime you yearn for a Jeremy Corbyn to create a culture where all this crap is swept away. I suppose he can always join Groucho's if he leaves his mobile outside
So we have a situation where the Met are saying it's only penalty notices, and the former DPP Macdonald ( and Starmer, it looks like ) both seem to think what is going on makes no sense, in that case.
Just what exactly is going on ?
The main questions I have are: Why did Sue Gray involve the police? Why did the police decide to investigate? Why is the report content impacted by the fact they are now investigating?
The answers would be obvious if we were talking about serious offences but we aren't. Partygate is a massive political scandal about the lies & hypocrisy of Boris Johnson. But as a criminal matter it's utterly trivial.
So it's not quite scanning for me at the moment.
It's totally scanning for me. Not in a good way.
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had.
That is what's so strange. It looks so obvious. Could they really have been that dumb ?
I guess they could. Although I'm a strong 'cock up over conspiracy' merchant I'm certainly not rejecting the possibility - the Met abusing their position at the behest of Boris Johnson to try and save the political skin of Boris Johnson. Could be. And what an absolute shocker if so. That's bone deep corruption in the very highest places. But I'm not quite buying it. Not yet anyway. I sense the answer might be something else - just not sure what.
Rationalising, I wonder whether resentment is driving the Police's position. They had no intention of getting involved in what is basically a political mess; now they have been dragged in and there is no upside in it for them. They will do the minimum they can get away with, which means not finding anything substantial. They don't want Sue Gray jumping up and down publicly indicating what the Police needs to investigate.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.
I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
There were plenty that weren't!
That is a nasty insinuation about Scots, which I hope you might withdraw. I love Scotland and the Scottish people. I don't like 3 of the Nats on here because they regularly post things that are unpleasantly anti-English so they get what they deserve. I am not aware of any occasion that I have been rude to you because you express your desire for independence in a civilised way.
I'll withdraw that, yes, but with the provision that you did give Malcolm a rough time recently quite unfairly (for a perfectly innocuous discussion of matters).
Re the medics, indeed, but it's been interesting to see the rise in the campaign against such things, and the increasing insistence on formal statements in research papers.
Sorry to say, but Malcolm is the rudest person here. He is an obnoxious bore and his unswerving fealty to Alex Salmond makes him a hypocrite when he attacks other politicians with his inarticulate garbage. That said, I think my kicking of him is less severe and less of a pile on than you have regularly given to HYUFD who is significantly less deserving of it than Malcolm.
Change the record scumbag , you have not even enough intelligence to alter your pathetic drivelling. Spend some of your JSA on educating yourself. As ever F Off scumbag and keep doing it. I doubt you could kick yourself in the arse never mind your delusion that you even scratch the surface with me. Not even your mother could love a cretin like you. PS: Nastiest Little Englander on the site and pretending you like Scots is a laugh, GIRUYYFOF
Keep going Malcolm, you are the PB.com equivalent of a "national treasure"
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
Even if you drive, the ferry costs at that time push the bill up quite steeply. The overnight from Portsmouth to St Malo is really convenient and great fun (especially with a few friends' families) but costs a few bob in the school holidays. More than flying, although you then save on the car hire.
Maybe @Leon could write an article on it. Take some nephews or nieces (none over 16) on a camping trip to Normandy on a budget. Now that would really be something to brag about!
Arse licking to Leon now, can you get lower than a rattlesnake in a rut.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.
I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
That moron is the scum of the earth, most obnoxious cretin on the site.
Haha, if it is not Pope Malcolm the First himself! Psychological projection again eh, Your Holiness? How are the anger management sessions going, not o well I guess?
It is not possible to be a cretin and a moron. These archaic psychiatric categories don't allow for overlap. Use of either these offensive words nowadays normally indicates the lower intelligence of the person that uses them. You are clearly aligning with the norm.
Prince Andrew blackballed from the Royal and Ancient. Sometime you yearn for a Jeremy Corbyn to create a culture where all this crap is swept away. I suppose he can always join Groucho's if he leaves his mobile outside
Under a Corbyn there wouldn't be posh golf clubs for elites?
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
Most of the evening can be spent eating out and on the town or seeing a show at Swansea Theatre.
Indeed if even Benidorm becomes too expensive in the height of summer, I suspect more and more families will spend their summers at beach resorts in the UK and maybe only go to Spain in the autumn or winter when it is cheaper but still warmer than the UK
Quite frankly, if that kind of quality holiday accommodation is already available in Swansea at these incredible prices, then the Spanish tourist industry needs to get a wiggle on. The world is changing
Indeed you can get actual hotels for about £300 a week in August in outer Manchester
Admittedly it does only have a 3/10 rating from booking.com with some actually quite critical reviews:
Very poor 2.0 Liked · Competitive on price. Disliked · Genuinely one of the worst places I have stayed anywhere in the UK. Dilapidated and unclean, with a tense atmosphere leading to a general feeling of a lack of safety.
2.0 Liked · the only good thing was the clean bathroom Disliked · first i was surprised by the amount charged to deposit the room key (£ 20). the room was stinking a lot of cigarettes, it was difficult to sleep with the smell, when i managed to sleep there was a noise in the next room, the noise remained for hours, some woman was screaming and hitting the wall of my room. when i woke up and went to the bathroom, i came across several items thrown down the corridor in front of my room, it seems like a hurricane passed through the night.
Horrible 1.0 Liked · Property is filthy It’s not fit for a dog let alone a person Disliked · Everything, it’s needs shutting down
2.0 Liked · leaving... my favourite moment was leaving Disliked · upon arriving i was given tiny box room no bigger than my left nut, when i booked and paid for twin bed ensuite an tv... i was itching like katie price underwear in them bed sheets, i would of felt breathing in toxic gas would of been healthier.. sat down on the toilet for an after work no.2 and slid into next doors room... i had to go buy 4 bottles of air freshener and flooded the room with it however it didn't get rid of the dead old man smell... HOWEVER if homeless consider it liveable, man like me... no chance i was out of there, packed up and left
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
To be honest I am at the stage that most any leader the conservative mps and members elect would be a relief
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
To be honest I am at the stage that most any leader the conservative mps and members elect would be a relief
A fun game to list those who would not be on that list.
Christopher Chope Michael Frabricant Suggestions welcomed.
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
Most of the evening can be spent eating out and on the town or seeing a show at Swansea Theatre.
Indeed if even Benidorm becomes too expensive in the height of summer, I suspect more and more families will spend their summers at beach resorts in the UK and maybe only go to Spain in the autumn or winter when it is cheaper but still warmer than the UK
Quite frankly, if that kind of quality holiday accommodation is already available in Swansea at these incredible prices, then the Spanish tourist industry needs to get a wiggle on. The world is changing
Indeed you can get actual hotels for about £300 a week in August in outer Manchester
Admittedly it does only have a 3/10 rating from booking.com with some actually quite critical reviews:
Very poor 2.0 Liked · Competitive on price. Disliked · Genuinely one of the worst places I have stayed anywhere in the UK. Dilapidated and unclean, with a tense atmosphere leading to a general feeling of a lack of safety.
2.0 Liked · the only good thing was the clean bathroom Disliked · first i was surprised by the amount charged to deposit the room key (£ 20). the room was stinking a lot of cigarettes, it was difficult to sleep with the smell, when i managed to sleep there was a noise in the next room, the noise remained for hours, some woman was screaming and hitting the wall of my room. when i woke up and went to the bathroom, i came across several items thrown down the corridor in front of my room, it seems like a hurricane passed through the night.
Horrible 1.0 Liked · Property is filthy It’s not fit for a dog let alone a person Disliked · Everything, it’s needs shutting down
2.0 Liked · leaving... my favourite moment was leaving Disliked · upon arriving i was given tiny box room no bigger than my left nut, when i booked and paid for twin bed ensuite an tv... i was itching like katie price underwear in them bed sheets, i would of felt breathing in toxic gas would of been healthier.. sat down on the toilet for an after work no.2 and slid into next doors room... i had to go buy 4 bottles of air freshener and flooded the room with it however it didn't get rid of the dead old man smell... HOWEVER if homeless consider it liveable, man like me... no chance i was out of there, packed up and left
Have a nice Friday everyone. I am off to the pub. Highly disappointed I won't be able to laugh at Malcolm's inarticulate attempts to insult me, but some joys in life one has to miss out on. Play nicely everyone!
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
So what?
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
Just think, most people on here last week were convinced that BJ was about to go. And he is still here, and looking more likely by the hour he will stay.
He has so far, but I'm not sure, at this juncture. He's now in serious danger of no report turning into a major story in itself.
I was having a think about the current situation..
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Actually it is
How do you see it being recovered?
With a new conservative leader carrying out conservative policies but also a better offer than labour in 2024
How many people currently voting Starmer Labour or LD would switch to the Tories even under Sunak? I would suggest very few. Sunak as a Leaver is still not going to appeal to Remainers who want a softer Brexit than now or to rejoin and the redwall who voted for Boris if they have left the Tories are unlikely to come back for Sunak and if they have stayed Tory likely have done so only really for Boris
I might. Boris is now as disqualifying as Corbyn was in 2019. Give me a different leader and I'll take a look.
Me too!
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
To be honest I am at the stage that most any leader the conservative mps and members elect would be a relief
A fun game to list those who would not be on that list.
Christopher Chope Michael Frabricant Suggestions welcomed.
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
Most of the evening can be spent eating out and on the town or seeing a show at Swansea Theatre.
Indeed if even Benidorm becomes too expensive in the height of summer, I suspect more and more families will spend their summers at beach resorts in the UK and maybe only go to Spain in the autumn or winter when it is cheaper but still warmer than the UK
Quite frankly, if that kind of quality holiday accommodation is already available in Swansea at these incredible prices, then the Spanish tourist industry needs to get a wiggle on. The world is changing
Indeed you can get actual hotels for about £300 a week in August in outer Manchester
Admittedly it does only have a 3/10 rating from booking.com with some actually quite critical reviews:
Very poor 2.0 Liked · Competitive on price. Disliked · Genuinely one of the worst places I have stayed anywhere in the UK. Dilapidated and unclean, with a tense atmosphere leading to a general feeling of a lack of safety.
2.0 Liked · the only good thing was the clean bathroom Disliked · first i was surprised by the amount charged to deposit the room key (£ 20). the room was stinking a lot of cigarettes, it was difficult to sleep with the smell, when i managed to sleep there was a noise in the next room, the noise remained for hours, some woman was screaming and hitting the wall of my room. when i woke up and went to the bathroom, i came across several items thrown down the corridor in front of my room, it seems like a hurricane passed through the night.
Horrible 1.0 Liked · Property is filthy It’s not fit for a dog let alone a person Disliked · Everything, it’s needs shutting down
2.0 Liked · leaving... my favourite moment was leaving Disliked · upon arriving i was given tiny box room no bigger than my left nut, when i booked and paid for twin bed ensuite an tv... i was itching like katie price underwear in them bed sheets, i would of felt breathing in toxic gas would of been healthier.. sat down on the toilet for an after work no.2 and slid into next doors room... i had to go buy 4 bottles of air freshener and flooded the room with it however it didn't get rid of the dead old man smell... HOWEVER if homeless consider it liveable, man like me... no chance i was out of there, packed up and left
Someone was recommending Bradford as a good holiday base and I was actually considering it as a back up last summer when UK accommodation became really tight. No-one thinks of going there but it is close to beautiful countryside and interesting places to visit. Also apparently good, and good-value, traditional station hotels.
“Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”
+++++
I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment
If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids
But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share
Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday
Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
Well I push up the average lol.
Good to hear!
I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday
In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.
There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
The economics of the holiday industry baffle me. I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital. And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year. And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
Well maybe. But just getting four return tickets by air in the school holidays would cost over £1000. There must be cheap holidays out there - or no-one would be able to afford holidays at all. But those that I've seen look awful - at least compared to the option of staying at home. I don't know much about the abroad market. But I know a fair bit about the British market. And it's dashed difficult to get a self-catering place for 5 in the school holidays for much under £1000.
A family holiday in France or Spain for under £1000, for a fortnight, during the school hols? How? Surely impossible, unless you drive and camp or something, and do it mega cheap, buying all your food in the nearest Aldi
How many do that?
I guess for a week at a two star hotel, but even then you’d be hard pushed with a family
Even if you drive, the ferry costs at that time push the bill up quite steeply. The overnight from Portsmouth to St Malo is really convenient and great fun (especially with a few friends' families) but costs a few bob in the school holidays. More than flying, although you then save on the car hire.
Maybe @Leon could write an article on it. Take some nephews or nieces (none over 16) on a camping trip to Normandy on a budget. Now that would really be something to brag about!
Arse licking to Leon now, can you get lower than a rattlesnake in a rut.
PS. I doubt I can get lower than your IQ. I was teasing Leon you dipshit!
However like many such people, it's probably hard to disentangle business from pleasure: e.g. he may go somewhere nice with the kids and have a few meetings, and call it 'working'.
Like Bill Gates reading every line of Microsoft's code, or Steve Jobs designing everything Apple made, it's rubbish.
I know someone that has met him a few times, so I am not sure it is. He is a one off, and not necessarily in a good way.
For a man worth seven trillion dollars, Musk is weirdly and easily annoyed by minor people on Twitter with 6 followers. Quite strange
He is a very weird dude all-round...the few long form interviews he has done with Joe Rogan and Lex Fridman only reinforces that.
Indeed, but we definitely need more Elon Musks in the world.
The Fridman interview especially, is worth watching.
The comments I've had from past colleagues who actually met him, is that there seem to be two Elon's. Bored Elon = Bad Elon. Better Elon is when he has something to do - preferably solving a numerical or physical problem.
Oh wow. Didn’t see these before, there goes my evening
Love what SpaceX are doing, it’s truly groundbreaking work for humanity, the likes of which we last saw in the 1960s.
Tim Dodd (the Everyday Astronaut) is generally excellent.
Indeed so, this is a good watch so far. I’ve generally been a Scott Manley guy when it comes to space Youtube stuff.
Musk is very relaxed when asked the more technical questions, in the way that you never usually see a CEO in their workplace, surrounded as they normally are by lawyers and PRs.
On a slightly different topic, the Fridman interview with Musk referenced the idea that Fridman might have an interview set up with Putin (Fridman is of Russian origin). That would be astonishing if he could pull it off, but I have a feeling the Ukranian situation might have put paid to it.
One of the best bits is when the the guy in charge of the launch mount building tells Musk they screwed up the design a bit, but they are getting back on schedule by flying in parts.
You tell the world's richest man you fucked up and wasted some of his money.
Musk replies that the initial design is going to be wrong anyway - until they work out the right one. And just nods...
That reminds me of what one of my first bosses told me when I was a contractor (I sorta did things backwards). "Don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions."
Something that I've seen elsewhere now and again. In other words; there is a problem. You're the expert, which is why you're here. Tell me the problem, but also tell me how you - as the expert - think it should be fixed. Don't expect me to fix you effing problems, but let me know how they affect things outside your remit - e.g. finance, schedule etc.
To be fair to @HYUFD he does have a point about Swansea. For instance you could rent a two bedroom, four bed family house near the centre for about £600, even in August. Leaving you a tidy £400 to spend on heroin, I mean food and transport
Most of the evening can be spent eating out and on the town or seeing a show at Swansea Theatre.
Indeed if even Benidorm becomes too expensive in the height of summer, I suspect more and more families will spend their summers at beach resorts in the UK and maybe only go to Spain in the autumn or winter when it is cheaper but still warmer than the UK
Quite frankly, if that kind of quality holiday accommodation is already available in Swansea at these incredible prices, then the Spanish tourist industry needs to get a wiggle on. The world is changing
Indeed you can get actual hotels for about £300 a week in August in outer Manchester
Admittedly it does only have a 3/10 rating from booking.com with some actually quite critical reviews:
Very poor 2.0 Liked · Competitive on price. Disliked · Genuinely one of the worst places I have stayed anywhere in the UK. Dilapidated and unclean, with a tense atmosphere leading to a general feeling of a lack of safety.
2.0 Liked · the only good thing was the clean bathroom Disliked · first i was surprised by the amount charged to deposit the room key (£ 20). the room was stinking a lot of cigarettes, it was difficult to sleep with the smell, when i managed to sleep there was a noise in the next room, the noise remained for hours, some woman was screaming and hitting the wall of my room. when i woke up and went to the bathroom, i came across several items thrown down the corridor in front of my room, it seems like a hurricane passed through the night.
Horrible 1.0 Liked · Property is filthy It’s not fit for a dog let alone a person Disliked · Everything, it’s needs shutting down
2.0 Liked · leaving... my favourite moment was leaving Disliked · upon arriving i was given tiny box room no bigger than my left nut, when i booked and paid for twin bed ensuite an tv... i was itching like katie price underwear in them bed sheets, i would of felt breathing in toxic gas would of been healthier.. sat down on the toilet for an after work no.2 and slid into next doors room... i had to go buy 4 bottles of air freshener and flooded the room with it however it didn't get rid of the dead old man smell... HOWEVER if homeless consider it liveable, man like me... no chance i was out of there, packed up and left
Someone was recommending Bradford as a good holiday base and I was actually considering it as a back up last summer when UK accommodation became really tight. No-one thinks of going there but it is close to beautiful countryside and interesting places to visit. Also apparently good, and good-value, traditional station hotels.
Haven’t they done up Bradford, and the centre is now quite nice?
Britain is weird for holidays. The most unexpected places can be amazing, but also the opposite, let’s face it
Prince Andrew blackballed from the Royal and Ancient. Sometime you yearn for a Jeremy Corbyn to create a culture where all this crap is swept away. I suppose he can always join Groucho's if he leaves his mobile outside
Under a Corbyn there wouldn't be posh golf clubs for elites?
I'm sure there would but after two terms they might stop being so smug
Prince Andrew blackballed from the Royal and Ancient. Sometime you yearn for a Jeremy Corbyn to create a culture where all this crap is swept away. I suppose he can always join Groucho's if he leaves his mobile outside
Down with his keks and a quick splash of creosote?
Comments
As soon as he does that, the Conservatives reframe the debate as them defending the Police from Labour's attacks. That's the last thing Labour want, and leans into an area of traditional weakness for Labour and strength for the Tories (law'n'order).
I agree there are things to criticise... but it'd be bad politics from his perspective.
I am very cynical about this now. Banana republic level crap today.
That’s a holiday in what looks like a converted prison, with no pool (use the one next door!), AND it is over £1000 AND it is only B&B, so you have to feed everyone as well.
And you have to get to and from Gatwick airport. And it is in the 1st week of July, not the actual family holiday month of august. In reality, that’s gonna end up costing nearer £2000
Just face it, you said something silly. Happens to us all
If people want a cheap trip post Brexit there are plenty of holidays they can get in Southend, Swansea, Blackpool, Skegness, Bournemouth, Margate, Broadstairs, Great Yarmouth, Weymouth, Weston Super Mare etc for well under £1,000 all inclusive.
If the expense of flights and the extra cost of even going to Benidorm for a family of 4 is too much peak season then families can rediscover the joys of the Great Brfitish summer break, as their grandparents used to have as children in the 1950s and 1960s before package holidays emerged.
That will then boost our tourism industry and hotels and b and bs and package holiday companies will have to cut prices to compete, no bad thing.
Boris is staying unless he is either found to have done something criminal or Labour gets a 10%+lead
The Met acting to save Johnson's political skin? I can see it as a distinct possibility, yes, but gosh that would be dark. It'd also be very hamfisted since it looks SO obvious. Everyone is pretty much saying it. Incredibly risky too. It'll likely come out if that's what's going on here. At which point, well I wouldn't like to predict, but that's a bigger scandal than the one we thought we had.
Johnson and Dick acting to save each other’s skins?
We all make mistakes and sometimes it is good to just own up
That’s innovative
You tell the world's richest man you fucked up and wasted some of his money.
Musk replies that the initial design is going to be wrong anyway - until they work out the right one. And just nods...
There’s a recent precident for the Mayor having a disagreement with the Commissioner.
The Tories are in an awful position. This situation drags on - not only that, we’ve presumably got a Covid-19 inquiry which will be pretty uncomfortable.
The situation is just not recoverable
Met are looking at issuing a statement explaining their use of the word "prejudice" when asking for the Sue Gray report to be watered down. They say its use was unfortunate and open to interpretation. Yup.
https://twitter.com/TownsendMark/status/1487112939513552898
The thought of W-s-M does remind me irresistibly of this particular family holiday
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/video/2015/aug/27/dismaland-watch-trailer-banksy-bemusement-park-weston-super-mare-video
Short of Starmer standing up and announcing that he was joining the Conservative Party, I can't think of anything more stupid or takes more pressure off BJ, by starting a political fight about political interference with the police.
Arresting Damien Greene was a sensible idea, in comparison.
When the Met start clarifying you know they are struggling
More to your point, Johnson and his lackeys don't respect the law - at best it's pettifogging, at worst the law is for little people, not the likes of him. On any reasonable objective view Starmer's Labour is head and shoulders above Johnson's Tories on the Law and Order question, but the electorate don't necessarily see it that way.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/28/why-on-earth-would-the-metropolitan-police-ask-sue-gray-to-redact-key-parts-of-her-independent-report/
Invest in Swansea, it may soon be the new Benidorm! There are some great beaches around Swansea and the Gower.
Plus given climate change in 20 to 30 years time summers in July in southern Spain might be unbearable while summers in the UK are perfectly pleasant
To me this doesn't actually seem likely to be a conspiracy (although the suspicion will hang around it). I think Cressida Dick is just very bad at her job and lacks basic political sense - that's hardly news, to be honest, as we've known it a long time.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-russia-moves-blood-supplies-near-ukraine-adding-us-concern-officials-2022-01-28/
Who needs blood supplies "for an exercise"?
What child would not be delighted with that?
Here it is:
https://www.booking.com/hotel/gb/stop-looking-walk-to-the-city-centre.en-gb.html
“Dad, can we go to Swansea again? Please????”
He is at present powerless in the matter, as you say.
But not in the court of public opinion
No doubt real lawyers will be along to put me right shortly....
No doubt claims of "lessons to be learned" will ensue, though what those might be, and whether anything is to be learned will remain obscure, as was the case for every previous cockup involving the Met.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nadine-dorries-told-to-log-off-twitter-after-angering-rebel-mps-with-pork-pie-joke/ar-AATfcPI?ocid=entnewsntp
Most of the evening can be spent eating out and on the town or seeing a show at Swansea Theatre.
Indeed if even Benidorm becomes too expensive in the height of summer, I suspect more and more families will spend their summers at beach resorts in the UK and maybe only go to Spain in the autumn or winter when it is cheaper but still warmer than the UK
As the day has gone on my anger with the Met has only increased
HYUFD is still obsessed with yesterday's war. I don't give a shit about Brexit now (other than fact I think it was pointless) so could not care about Sunak and his teenage obsession with Brexit (even though it was weird). I want the clown out. Not just because of Brexit but because he is an embarrassment. I would still prefer a Conservative government. I am just not prepared to vote for one led by a lying incompetent charlatan
We are political obsessives, posting multiple posts on a niche website that 99%+ of the population does not know about. Most people just want to get on with their lives, not obsess about the details.
apologies, no offence meant to PBers - well, most ones anyway
On the holidays topic - the people using the"expensive" hotels are either (like me) using massively discounted margins or they are (generally) taking out huge amounts of debt for such holidays.
It's like asking where the money is for the £50K cars you see rolling around.... either bought second hand for a lot less, or bought with borrowed money on savage terms....
As ever F Off scumbag and keep doing it. I doubt you could kick yourself in the arse never mind your delusion that you even scratch the surface with me. Not even your mother could love a cretin like you.
PS: Nastiest Little Englander on the site and pretending you like Scots is a laugh, GIRUYYFOF
The mere fact you were an activist makes you a minority and someone who spends a lot more time thinking about politics than most people do. It's like hearing those people who rave about Squid Game on Netflix when 5m+ still watch Corrie. You are a minority and not representative of the general population.
"President Vladimir Putin has told his French counterpart that the West has ignored Russia's security concerns - US and Nato responses did not take account of such key Russian concerns as preventing Nato expansion, non-deployment of strike weapons systems near Russian borders, or returning the alliance's military potential and infrastructure in Europe to positions existing in 1997," a Kremlin readout of the call said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60173191
If you don't turn the clock back 25 years, we shall be forced, forced I say, to invade another country. And past promises not being kept is totally the same thing as invading Ukraine.
I even managed to listen to @Gardenwalker and others talking about food and have been doing daytime fasts and lunchtime walks. Feel great!
More videos should be done over a pint.
Just think, most people on here last week were convinced that BJ was about to go. And he is still here, and looking more likely by the hour he will stay.
Go a mile or two from the plush hotels you stay at abroad and find the worst place. Go on.
It is not possible to be a cretin and a moron. These archaic psychiatric categories don't allow for overlap. Use of either these offensive words nowadays normally indicates the lower intelligence of the person that uses them. You are clearly aligning with the norm.
Indeed you can get actual hotels for about £300 a week in August in outer Manchester
Like this:
https://tinyurl.com/y7nzsofj
Admittedly it does only have a 3/10 rating from booking.com with some actually quite critical reviews:
Very poor
2.0
Liked · Competitive on price.
Disliked · Genuinely one of the worst places I have stayed anywhere in the UK. Dilapidated and unclean, with a tense atmosphere leading to a general feeling of a lack of safety.
2.0
Liked · the only good thing was the clean bathroom
Disliked · first i was surprised by the amount charged to deposit the room key (£ 20). the room was stinking a lot of cigarettes, it was difficult to sleep with the smell, when i managed to sleep there was a noise in the next room, the noise remained for hours, some woman was screaming and hitting the wall of my room. when i woke up and went to the bathroom, i came across several items thrown down the corridor in front of my room, it seems like a hurricane passed through the night.
Horrible
1.0
Liked · Property is filthy It’s not fit for a dog let alone a person
Disliked · Everything, it’s needs shutting down
2.0
Liked · leaving... my favourite moment was leaving
Disliked · upon arriving i was given tiny box room no bigger than my left nut, when i booked and paid for twin bed ensuite an tv... i was itching like katie price underwear in them bed sheets, i would of felt breathing in toxic gas would of been healthier.. sat down on the toilet for an after work no.2 and slid into next doors room... i had to go buy 4 bottles of air freshener and flooded the room with it however it didn't get rid of the dead old man smell... HOWEVER if homeless consider it liveable, man like me... no chance i was out of there, packed up and left
Christopher Chope
Michael Frabricant
Suggestions welcomed.
Dorries
Patel
Something that I've seen elsewhere now and again. In other words; there is a problem. You're the expert, which is why you're here. Tell me the problem, but also tell me how you - as the expert - think it should be fixed. Don't expect me to fix you effing problems, but let me know how they affect things outside your remit - e.g. finance, schedule etc.
Britain is weird for holidays. The most unexpected places can be amazing, but also the opposite, let’s face it
These folk do have some strange traditions.