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Rishi drops below 30% in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,806
edited February 2022 in General
imageRishi drops below 30% in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

Today’s news on the timing of the Gray report has led to Sunak dropping below a 30% chance in the next PM betting. Clearly, his position had been underpinned by the likelihood of an early vacancy and the latest machinations reduce that possibility.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.
  • Options

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Not clear what Rishi could have done about the Gray Report and the Metropolitan Police. Unless Rishi's phone has a stash of party photos, events are largely outside his control. Unlike some here, I cannot see how Rishi's resigning would help; more likely it would end his chance.
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    TalkSport breakfast this morning reckoned it was their understanding that Wayne Rooney would 'crawl over broken glass to get the Everton job'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10452333/Wayne-Rooney-reveals-REJECTED-chance-interviewed-Everton-job.html

    Apparently not!

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093
    edited January 2022
    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,791
    Referring to him as Rishi is annoying. Can't we all call him Sunak?
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,447
    edited January 2022

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Not clear what Rishi could have done about the Gray Report and the Metropolitan Police. Unless Rishi's phone has a stash of party photos, events are largely outside his control. Unlike some here, I cannot see how Rishi's resigning would help; more likely it would end his chance.
    If he'd tipped the wink to four dozen supportive MPs then Brady's inbox would have reached the requisite height and there'd at least have been a confidence vote.

    So, either Sunak doesn't have that many supporters who can be trusted with such a request, or he chose to stay his hand.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,424
    Stocky said:

    Referring to him as Rishi is annoying. Can't we all call him Sunak?

    Loads of people use Boris rather than Johnson.
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 625
    Stocky said:

    Referring to him as Rishi is annoying. Can't we all call him Sunak?

    I am going to call him Bridget
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    NHantsNHants Posts: 8
    I'm surprised Dominic Raab isn't even quoted. What happens if Johnson loses a Vote of No Confidence? Surely he would be compelled to stand aside before any Conservative membership election? So the Deputy Prime Minister may well have to accede in the short term.

    Of course the wording of the question comes into play, but no one seems to have considered the possibility just outlined.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,447
    It is looking as though I'll have to apologise for arguing against the bet on Starmer as next PM.

    I had thought that Johnson had so little committed support within the Parliamentary Party that if ever things turned badly against him he'd be quickly defenestrated, but he's looking harder to dislodge now.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,447
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Raises the obvious question: does Sunak have a little brother?
  • Options
    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Not clear what Rishi could have done about the Gray Report and the Metropolitan Police. Unless Rishi's phone has a stash of party photos, events are largely outside his control. Unlike some here, I cannot see how Rishi's resigning would help; more likely it would end his chance.
    If he'd tipped the wink to four dozen supportive MPs then Brady's inbox would have reached the requisite height and there'd at least would have been a confidence vote.

    So, either Sunak doesn't have that many supporters who can be trusted with such a request, or he chose to stay his hand.
    Or the calculus says Boris has a decent chance of winning a VONC and if Sunak tripped it (which would be pretty obvious) Sunak is then toast? "When you strike at a (World) King, you must kill him"

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    mickydroymickydroy Posts: 273
    Penddu2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Referring to him as Rishi is annoying. Can't we all call him Sunak?

    I am going to call him Bridget
    It's basically a Tory papers trick, make him/her sound like they are your mate, Maggie, Boris, Rishi, dont fall for it, Sunak it is.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,977
    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    Are you suggesting that Mr Johnson has a choice between doing bus programmes for Youtube and staffing Thunderbird 5?
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,877

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Raises the obvious question: does Sunak have a little brother?
    What even shorter than Rishi?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,373
    edited January 2022
    Penddu2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Referring to him as Rishi is annoying. Can't we all call him Sunak?

    I am going to call him Bridget
    That will rather confuse PB debates on the merits of backing Bridget Phillipson (25/1 is available) to be next Labour leader.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,750
    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,386
    @IpsosMORI @standardnews Meanwhile, the Conservatives are moving in the opposite direction – the proportion who believe they do not deserve to be re-elected has risen from 46% to 56% since September. Details here: https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/labour-most-trusted-cost-living-and-levelling-conservatives-still-lead-growing-economy 3/3 https://twitter.com/GideonSkinner/status/1487073768656748550/photo/1
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    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268
    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    Yes that’s a curiously obvious lie. He was a vocally eurosceptic SCHOOLBOY. All this is on record

    Therefore this sounds like some clumsy attempt to smear him by Borisovians
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,373
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:
    How much is this greater trust in Labour due to the perception that government pledges cannot be relied on? It says one thing but does another.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,429
    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268
    FPT for @Burgessian

    “That's good. But for how long?

    “Several years ago I was in Crete - beautiful - but I was dismayed by the number of estate agents offering coastal sites for sale. They were all English-language promotions so clearly going after Brits seeking the good life. It was pretty clear that the remaining undeveloped coastline was likely to be wrecked before long.

    Fortunately the Cretan interior is pretty dramatic and for most of the holiday that's where we headed. White Mountains etc. Just such a shame about the fate of the coast.”

    ++++

    Yes, Crete is a good example of touristic spoliation. All those lovely Venetian towns along the north coast, now essentially ruined by a long stream of tourist tat. Horrible and sad

    Thailand is another example: destroying island after island, like there is an inexhaustible number. There isn’t. It’s like the hunters who believed the American buffalo were infinite in number, even as they shot the last great herds

    If there is one upside to Covid, it may be a rethink of the way we are fucking up all the nicest corners of our planet. And yes, I know this is hypocrisy, as I earn money visiting them
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,386
    Which party do people most trust (Lab/Con) on,
    * Reducing cost of living (38% to 21%)
    “Levelling up” Britain (44% to 14%)
    Managing immigration (32% to 23%)
    Reducing crime (29% to 25%)
    Improving the NHS (45% to 18%)
    @IpsosMORI poll in @EveningStandard
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/more-people-trust-labour-than-conservative-party-national-insurance-boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-b979333.html
  • Options
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    Yes that’s a curiously obvious lie. He was a vocally eurosceptic SCHOOLBOY. All this is on record

    Therefore this sounds like some clumsy attempt to smear him by Borisovians
    Thing is he looks like a Remainer - wealthy, cosmopolitan, financial background. So it's a good smear for Boris to set in motion. Ironic that the tactic you suggested be used against Sir Keir is now being used by Leavers against one of their own.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,386
    From a new measured report by Chatham House on U.K. strategy to Russia. Again the Conservative Party is warned about its Russian connection. It is a warning now being issued on both sides of the Atlantic https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1487077229058310151/photo/1
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,916
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    Yes that’s a curiously obvious lie. He was a vocally eurosceptic SCHOOLBOY. All this is on record

    Therefore this sounds like some clumsy attempt to smear him by Borisovians
    Perhaps it is more nuanced: Brexiteer, but has some thoughts about how Brexit might actually practically work out?
    Damning in some circles, certainly.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,788
    edited January 2022
    I’ve long argued Rishi is overvalued on this market. I laid him at ~3/1. My view is unchanged.
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 821
    NHants said:

    I'm surprised Dominic Raab isn't even quoted. What happens if Johnson loses a Vote of No Confidence? Surely he would be compelled to stand aside before any Conservative membership election? So the Deputy Prime Minister may well have to accede in the short term.

    Of course the wording of the question comes into play, but no one seems to have considered the possibility just outlined.

    I think Boris would be duty and honour bound to remain in post as PM until the palace is involved. So, VONC against Johnson and he loses, triggering a leadership contest. Presume he runs, but loses. He's no longer leader of the Conservative Party but remains Prime Minister. New leader is elected. Boris is still PM until he either resigns office or the Conservative Party under their new leader triggers a VONC in Parliament, followed by a vote of confidence in the new leader. New leader then goes to the palace and becomes PM.

    That's my understanding. It's a bit squishy, and I'm assuming BJ is a bit difficult to dislodge and may not actually offer his resignation to the Queen, either upon losing the Party Leadership or de jure confidence of the Commons. In either case, I don't think it matters too much, despite being pretty shoddy behaviour.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,904

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Raises the obvious question: does Sunak have a little brother?
    He is one of 4 isn't he?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084
    Rishi Washy.

    When the time came for him to step up, he hesitated.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268
    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,315
    ping said:

    I’ve long argued Rishi is overvalued on this market. I laid him at ~3/1. My view is unchanged.

    I laid him yesterday at 2.9

    There is a time and tide and so on.

  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,447
    Scott_xP said:

    Which party do people most trust (Lab/Con) on,
    * Reducing cost of living (38% to 21%)
    “Levelling up” Britain (44% to 14%)
    Managing immigration (32% to 23%)
    Reducing crime (29% to 25%)
    Improving the NHS (45% to 18%)
    @IpsosMORI poll in @EveningStandard
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/more-people-trust-labour-than-conservative-party-national-insurance-boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-b979333.html

    Look like large numbers for neither or don't know on those. Is that normal, or does it reflect that we're at an unusual point in political time when there's everything to play for?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,936
    Scott_xP said:

    From a new measured report by Chatham House on U.K. strategy to Russia. Again the Conservative Party is warned about its Russian connection. It is a warning now being issued on both sides of the Atlantic https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1487077229058310151/photo/1

    Exactly right.
    It's naive to think that there aren't at least a few MPs who are bought and sold for Russian gold. This is an issue for the government on two levels: one, as a party it needs to manage its resilience to attempted infiltration, same as any party. And two, as the governing party, it needs to be working with the security services to detect and deter approaches to all Politically Exposed Persons, regardless of party affiliation (if any).

    It has seemed in recent years that the government is at best too relaxed about the issue, and at worst sees partisan advantage to turning a blind eye. The former is inexcusable, the latter, worse.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,590
    Unpopular said:

    NHants said:

    I'm surprised Dominic Raab isn't even quoted. What happens if Johnson loses a Vote of No Confidence? Surely he would be compelled to stand aside before any Conservative membership election? So the Deputy Prime Minister may well have to accede in the short term.

    Of course the wording of the question comes into play, but no one seems to have considered the possibility just outlined.

    I think Boris would be duty and honour bound to remain in post as PM until the palace is involved. So, VONC against Johnson and he loses, triggering a leadership contest. Presume he runs, but loses. He's no longer leader of the Conservative Party but remains Prime Minister. New leader is elected. Boris is still PM until he either resigns office or the Conservative Party under their new leader triggers a VONC in Parliament, followed by a vote of confidence in the new leader. New leader then goes to the palace and becomes PM.

    That's my understanding. It's a bit squishy, and I'm assuming BJ is a bit difficult to dislodge and may not actually offer his resignation to the Queen, either upon losing the Party Leadership or de jure confidence of the Commons. In either case, I don't think it matters too much, despite being pretty shoddy behaviour.
    If he loses a VONC in the Party he's ineligible to run AIUI*

    * Although the rules don't apply to him it seems.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Well I push up the average lol.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,315

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Raises the obvious question: does Sunak have a little brother?
    Genuine :lol:
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,788
    edited January 2022

    ping said:

    I’ve long argued Rishi is overvalued on this market. I laid him at ~3/1. My view is unchanged.

    I laid him yesterday at 2.9

    There is a time and tide and so on.

    The value is on Keir @ ~9/1. Probably a loser, but those odds are great.

    Should be under 4/1, imo

    Alternatively, just lay all the front runners, bar Keir.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    No, as Major ended up Tory leader having stayed as Chancellor under Maggie until she fell, not Howe and Heseltine who both resigned from her Cabinet and toppled her
  • Options
    ping said:

    I’ve long argued Rishi is overvalued on this market. I laid him at ~3/1. My view is unchanged.

    Overrated in my opinion too.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    Yes that’s a curiously obvious lie. He was a vocally eurosceptic SCHOOLBOY. All this is on record

    Therefore this sounds like some clumsy attempt to smear him by Borisovians
    Thing is he looks like a Remainer - wealthy, cosmopolitan, financial background. So it's a good smear for Boris to set in motion. Ironic that the tactic you suggested be used against Sir Keir is now being used by Leavers against one of their own.
    I confess i was a bit surprised when I read that he was a convinced Brexiteer. However, he is ENORMOUSLY wealthy. I have noted that the rich and super-rich are much more Brexity than the merely affluent, who are generally Remainer if not Remoaner

    I recall a birthday party a few weeks before the referendum where the room contained about 5 people in the top 100 Sunday Times wealthiest people thing. All were Leave
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    Somebody clearly trying to brief against him then, I wonder who....LOL
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,447
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Raises the obvious question: does Sunak have a little brother?
    He is one of 4 isn't he?
    Wikipedia says that he's the eldest of three, one each of brother and sister.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093
    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    B and B in Southend does for us
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    No, as Major ended up Tory leader having stayed as Chancellor under Maggie until she fell, not Howe and Heseltine who both resigned from her Cabinet and toppled her
    Here is another suggestion, old bean. Try disagreeing more magnanimously. Starting your reply with "No" just makes you look like an arrogant twat.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,300
    Leon said:

    FPT for @Burgessian

    “That's good. But for how long?

    “Several years ago I was in Crete - beautiful - but I was dismayed by the number of estate agents offering coastal sites for sale. They were all English-language promotions so clearly going after Brits seeking the good life. It was pretty clear that the remaining undeveloped coastline was likely to be wrecked before long.

    Fortunately the Cretan interior is pretty dramatic and for most of the holiday that's where we headed. White Mountains etc. Just such a shame about the fate of the coast.”

    ++++

    Yes, Crete is a good example of touristic spoliation. All those lovely Venetian towns along the north coast, now essentially ruined by a long stream of tourist tat. Horrible and sad

    Thailand is another example: destroying island after island, like there is an inexhaustible number. There isn’t. It’s like the hunters who believed the American buffalo were infinite in number, even as they shot the last great herds

    If there is one upside to Covid, it may be a rethink of the way we are fucking up all the nicest corners of our planet. And yes, I know this is hypocrisy, as I earn money visiting them

    Earliest example of that I can remember is Corfu.
    Idyllic when I went as a kid in the early 70s; well on the way to despoilation before the end of the decade.

    Still, if universal prosperity eventually leads to sharp population declines, the problem will solve itself. Even if we're not around to see it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
    Let it go. We all have to learn to accept Boris is staying put. He is utterly unfit for office, but the Tory party decided to go all in backing him.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,936

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    No, as Major ended up Tory leader having stayed as Chancellor under Maggie until she fell, not Howe and Heseltine who both resigned from her Cabinet and toppled her
    Here is another suggestion, old bean. Try disagreeing more magnanimously. Starting your reply with "No" just makes you look like an arrogant twat.
    Yes
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Well I push up the average lol.
    Good to hear!

    I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday

    In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
  • Options
    NHantsNHants Posts: 8
    Unpopular said:

    NHants said:

    I'm surprised Dominic Raab isn't even quoted. What happens if Johnson loses a Vote of No Confidence? Surely he would be compelled to stand aside before any Conservative membership election? So the Deputy Prime Minister may well have to accede in the short term.

    Of course the wording of the question comes into play, but no one seems to have considered the possibility just outlined.

    I think Boris would be duty and honour bound to remain in post as PM until the palace is involved. So, VONC against Johnson and he loses, triggering a leadership contest. Presume he runs, but loses. He's no longer leader of the Conservative Party but remains Prime Minister. New leader is elected. Boris is still PM until he either resigns office or the Conservative Party under their new leader triggers a VONC in Parliament, followed by a vote of confidence in the new leader. New leader then goes to the palace and becomes PM.

    That's my understanding. It's a bit squishy, and I'm assuming BJ is a bit difficult to dislodge and may not actually offer his resignation to the Queen, either upon losing the Party Leadership or de jure confidence of the Commons. In either case, I don't think it matters too much, despite being pretty shoddy behaviour.
    Yes, you may well be right, that's how they would try to operate.

    But it is possible he will be forced from office under these circumstances ('he has no right to lead the country') and these odds are not reflected in the odds quoted for Raab - I'd say it's more than 10%.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,904
    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
    Let it go. We all have to learn to accept Boris is staying put. He is utterly unfit for office, but the Tory party decided to go all in backing him.
    Nope, not letting it go. Happy to be vilified and wear a hair shirt for a whole month and eat gruel if he is still in post in July.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,986
    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Yes, decent family rooms at a price competitive with house rentals aren't something I've happened across reliably whenever I've looked.

    It's either the 5 in a room budget hotel pile in, which will do for a night or two, but I wouldn't dream of for a week (and now ages dictate we're a 2 room family), not least because of style cramping. Or the ones you do find are such hen's teeth that little option of a discount - we had a lovely 2 room suite at a wedding in East Sussex a few years back.

    In any case, I don't have a bank of places where this is a great option - but then again, never been one for the foreign package holiday - so that may be my blind spot.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    So long as the Conservative party prioritise electioneering over good governance, with current crop of potential alternatives, Boris is safe.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
    Let it go. We all have to learn to accept Boris is staying put. He is utterly unfit for office, but the Tory party decided to go all in backing him.
    Nope, not letting it go. Happy to be vilified and wear a hair shirt for a whole month and eat gruel if he is still in post in July.
    The trouble is there’s nothing anyone can do about it. The Tory MPs bottled it. We’re stuck with him for years, unless somehow Starmer can pull off a miracle and kick him out in 2024.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 821
    dixiedean said:

    Unpopular said:

    NHants said:

    I'm surprised Dominic Raab isn't even quoted. What happens if Johnson loses a Vote of No Confidence? Surely he would be compelled to stand aside before any Conservative membership election? So the Deputy Prime Minister may well have to accede in the short term.

    Of course the wording of the question comes into play, but no one seems to have considered the possibility just outlined.

    I think Boris would be duty and honour bound to remain in post as PM until the palace is involved. So, VONC against Johnson and he loses, triggering a leadership contest. Presume he runs, but loses. He's no longer leader of the Conservative Party but remains Prime Minister. New leader is elected. Boris is still PM until he either resigns office or the Conservative Party under their new leader triggers a VONC in Parliament, followed by a vote of confidence in the new leader. New leader then goes to the palace and becomes PM.

    That's my understanding. It's a bit squishy, and I'm assuming BJ is a bit difficult to dislodge and may not actually offer his resignation to the Queen, either upon losing the Party Leadership or de jure confidence of the Commons. In either case, I don't think it matters too much, despite being pretty shoddy behaviour.
    If he loses a VONC in the Party he's ineligible to run AIUI*

    * Although the rules don't apply to him it seems.
    Ah, yes, I think you're right on that. Still, I think this is how it would work if he is removed by the party.

    Of course, he could just flounce off after losing a ToryVONC, despite being duty bound to wait until a clear successor emerges from the contest. Then Raab might be in with a chance as NHants identifies, but I think it unlikely, mainly because I think Boris is more likely to be atypical in his reluctance to go and I don't think that even he would put the Queen in such a constitutionally awkward position by resigning without a clear successor.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,397

    Scott_xP said:

    Which party do people most trust (Lab/Con) on,
    * Reducing cost of living (38% to 21%)
    “Levelling up” Britain (44% to 14%)
    Managing immigration (32% to 23%)
    Reducing crime (29% to 25%)
    Improving the NHS (45% to 18%)
    @IpsosMORI poll in @EveningStandard
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/more-people-trust-labour-than-conservative-party-national-insurance-boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-b979333.html

    Look like large numbers for neither or don't know on those. Is that normal, or does it reflect that we're at an unusual point in political time when there's everything to play for?
    It probably reflects the lack of recent debate on the details of any of this. What do most people think is either party's policy on immigration? The Government might, um, intensify the Navy's efforts and then send people somewhere which might have been Ghana but isn't. The Opposition would make legal applications easier to reduce the pressure for illegal crossings. As the "median voter" you probably feel vaguely that the Government is useless (hence 23%), the Opposition might be better (hence 32%) but you really aren't sure (hence 45%).

    The one that stands out is only 14% favouring the Conservatives for their flagship policy of "levelling up". They either need some more guns on that flagship or a different flagship.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    That is a lot of caveats.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT for @Burgessian

    “That's good. But for how long?

    “Several years ago I was in Crete - beautiful - but I was dismayed by the number of estate agents offering coastal sites for sale. They were all English-language promotions so clearly going after Brits seeking the good life. It was pretty clear that the remaining undeveloped coastline was likely to be wrecked before long.

    Fortunately the Cretan interior is pretty dramatic and for most of the holiday that's where we headed. White Mountains etc. Just such a shame about the fate of the coast.”

    ++++

    Yes, Crete is a good example of touristic spoliation. All those lovely Venetian towns along the north coast, now essentially ruined by a long stream of tourist tat. Horrible and sad

    Thailand is another example: destroying island after island, like there is an inexhaustible number. There isn’t. It’s like the hunters who believed the American buffalo were infinite in number, even as they shot the last great herds

    If there is one upside to Covid, it may be a rethink of the way we are fucking up all the nicest corners of our planet. And yes, I know this is hypocrisy, as I earn money visiting them

    Earliest example of that I can remember is Corfu.
    Idyllic when I went as a kid in the early 70s; well on the way to despoilation before the end of the decade.

    Still, if universal prosperity eventually leads to sharp population declines, the problem will solve itself. Even if we're not around to see it.
    Corfu is tragic. I went there with kids and friends a few years back. It was sad more than anything

    The idiotic thing is, just over the coast on the mainland there is an entirely unspoiled coast with lovely Venetian towns, like Preveza

    https://travelgreecetraveleurope.com/2020/02/05/preveza-greece/
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
    Let it go. We all have to learn to accept Boris is staying put. He is utterly unfit for office, but the Tory party decided to go all in backing him.
    Nope, not letting it go. Happy to be vilified and wear a hair shirt for a whole month and eat gruel if he is still in post in July.
    The trouble is there’s nothing anyone can do about it. The Tory MPs bottled it. We’re stuck with him for years, unless somehow Starmer can pull off a miracle and kick him out in 2024.
    I think Cummings has a few more tricks up his sleeve. I hate the man, but he is seriously pissed (in the American sense)
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,055
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,977

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!

    Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,447
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Well I push up the average lol.
    Good to hear!

    I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday

    In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
    Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.

    There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,315
    edited January 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
    Let it go. We all have to learn to accept Boris is staying put. He is utterly unfit for office, but the Tory party decided to go all in backing him.
    Nope, not letting it go. Happy to be vilified and wear a hair shirt for a whole month and eat gruel if he is still in post in July.
    The trouble is there’s nothing anyone can do about it. The Tory MPs bottled it. We’re stuck with him for years, unless somehow Starmer can pull off a miracle and kick him out in 2024.
    A shellacking for Johnson in May might trigger something, but I doubt it.

    God knows what state the realm will be in after another five years of this clown and he's dodgy supporters. Everything he goes near is corrupted.

    "Take back control so I can implement a banana republic" was not on the side of the bus.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,863
    Penddu2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Referring to him as Rishi is annoying. Can't we all call him Sunak?

    I am going to call him Bridget
    He's the Bridget Gem.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
    It does, on UNS on the new boundaries even a 9% Labour lead only leads to Labour 309 seats and Tories 246.

    Labour still 17 short of a majority. Plus Starmer Labour is still not seen as as centrist as Blair's New Labour by the middle classes, even if not as bad as Corbyn Labour. So while they might tactically vote LD, they are much less likely to tactically vote Labour.

    Compare too the by election results in North Shropshire and Chesham and Amersham where the LDs were challengers and won with Old Bexley and Sidcup where Labour were challengers and the Tories held on
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=31&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,315
    edited January 2022
    Anna Soubry is a criminal barrister and she is tweeting she sees no reason why the Met are not allowing Gray's report.

    This Met decision absolutely stinks.

    Possibly the worst thing that has happened yet in this disgusting saga.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
    It does, on UNS
    I'll stop you there and repeat the post you're replying to because obviously you haven't read it or haven't understood it.

    Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections.

    Now take the rest of the day off.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!

    Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
    There were plenty that weren't!

    That is a nasty insinuation about Scots, which I hope you might withdraw. I love Scotland and the Scottish people. I don't like 3 of the Nats on here because they regularly post things that are unpleasantly anti-English so they get what they deserve. I am not aware of any occasion that I have been rude to you because you express your desire for independence in a civilised way.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,386

    Anna Soubry is a criminal barrister and she is tweeting she sees no reason why the Met are not allowing Gray's report.

    This Met decision absolutely stinks.

    Possibly the worst thing that has happened yet in this disgusting saga.

    Not for BoZo

    Wine time Friday anyone?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,268
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.

    In my experience the best is a mix. Spend 6 days somewhere characterful but cheap, then indulge yourself with a night or two of luxury. The contrast somehow makes both more enjoyable


    One of the nicest places I have stayed in the last decade (when I have been all over the world and done all the 5 star stuff) is here:

    https://e.xpda.co/d8RG4NU3MQXcdwVKOnsZwnpyCJ4

    Two star holiday apartments in Pelion Greece. About £40 a night in September (the ideal time to visit). Spellbinding
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,386
    NEW BLOGPOST: Why on earth would the Metropolitan Police ask Sue Gray to redact key parts of her independent report?

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/28/why-on-earth-would-the-metropolitan-police-ask-sue-gray-to-redact-key-parts-of-her-independent-report/
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,904

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
    Yes, barely get a free pen nowadays!

    I did have a very nice week in Sydney for a drug launch, with gourmet meals and a night at the opera house some 20 years ago, flying with Cathay Pacific, and a hotel at Darling Harbour. Very Nice, but exceptional.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!
    Yes, barely get a free pen nowadays!

    I did have a very nice week in Sydney for a drug launch, with gourmet meals and a night at the opera house some 20 years ago, flying with Cathay Pacific, and a hotel at Darling Harbour. Very Nice, but exceptional.
    thank you for taking my joke in the spirit it was intended. A number of my best friends are doctors
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW BLOGPOST: Why on earth would the Metropolitan Police ask Sue Gray to redact key parts of her independent report?

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/28/why-on-earth-would-the-metropolitan-police-ask-sue-gray-to-redact-key-parts-of-her-independent-report/

    The last paragraph is a decent summary:

    But a political ‘stitch-up’? It’s too early for such accusations to be sensibly levelled. As things stand, there are potentially valid reasons for the Met’s stance. The provable charge against the Met is unforgivable incompetence at the highest level. We’ll have to await the outcome of their investigation, and the transparency of their decision-making, before deciding whether Hanlon’s Razor needs snapping in half.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,365
    It's like waiting for the new pope, but my money is on Matterella having his arm twisted to stay on another year
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,977

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!

    Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
    There were plenty that weren't!

    That is a nasty insinuation about Scots, which I hope you might withdraw. I love Scotland and the Scottish people. I don't like 3 of the Nats on here because they regularly post things that are unpleasantly anti-English so they get what they deserve. I am not aware of any occasion that I have been rude to you because you express your desire for independence in a civilised way.
    I'll withdraw that, yes, but with the provision that you did give Malcolm a rough time recently quite unfairly (for a perfectly innocuous discussion of matters).

    Re the medics, indeed, but it's been interesting to see the rise in the campaign against such things, and the increasing insistence on formal statements in research papers.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093
    Applicant said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
    It does, on UNS
    I'll stop you there and repeat the post you're replying to because obviously you haven't read it or haven't understood it.

    Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections.

    Now take the rest of the day off.
    Clearly neither of you have bothered to read the rest of my post 'Plus Starmer Labour is still not seen as as centrist as Blair's New Labour by the middle classes, even if not as bad as Corbyn Labour. So while they might tactically vote LD, they are much less likely to tactically vote Labour.

    Compare too the by election results in North Shropshire and Chesham and Amersham where the LDs were challengers and won with Old Bexley and Sidcup where Labour were challengers and the Tories held on'

    There has been no repeal Clause 4 moment from Starmer, no real attempt to go all out to the centre as Blair did and Starmer also has zero charisma unlike Blair. There will be far less tactical voting for Labour next time than there was in 1997, even if there is tactical voting for the LDs.

    So I repeat, Labour is still a million miles from a majority and will be unless it either regains most of the seats it lost to the SNP in Scotland or goes much more to the centre a la New Labour pre 1997
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,104
    Tories looking beyond Johnson would be advised not to dismiss Sunak in my view. He's the best not-Boris candidate they have got.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,916

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Well I push up the average lol.
    Good to hear!

    I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday

    In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
    Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.

    There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
    The economics of the holiday industry baffle me.
    I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital.
    And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year.
    And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,904
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.

    In my experience the best is a mix. Spend 6 days somewhere characterful but cheap, then indulge yourself with a night or two of luxury. The contrast somehow makes both more enjoyable


    One of the nicest places I have stayed in the last decade (when I have been all over the world and done all the 5 star stuff) is here:

    https://e.xpda.co/d8RG4NU3MQXcdwVKOnsZwnpyCJ4

    Two star holiday apartments in Pelion Greece. About £40 a night in September (the ideal time to visit). Spellbinding
    Yes, a bit of luxury is nice. Tea at the Old Cataract over looking the Nile at Aswan for example, or tea again at Reids in Madeira. A night at The Ark in the Abedares in Kenya was a highlight too. On the other hand street food in SE Asia is so vibrant tasty and entertaining that it is hard to beat for quality and value.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,055
    .
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
    It does, on UNS on the new boundaries even a 9% Labour lead only leads to Labour 309 seats and Tories 246.

    Labour still 17 short of a majority. Plus Starmer Labour is still not seen as as centrist as Blair's New Labour by the middle classes, even if not as bad as Corbyn Labour. So while they might tactically vote LD, they are much less likely to tactically vote Labour.

    Compare too the by election results in North Shropshire and Chesham and Amersham where the LDs were challengers and won with Old Bexley and Sidcup where Labour were challengers and the Tories held on
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=31&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I am afraid you are talking b*******!
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
    It does, on UNS
    I'll stop you there and repeat the post you're replying to because obviously you haven't read it or haven't understood it.

    Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections.

    Now take the rest of the day off.
    Clearly neither of you have bothered to read the rest of my post
    Yeah, well when you're replying to someone telling you for about the eleventy billionth time that you can't rely on UNS and your reply starts with "on UNS" then people do tend to skip over the rest of the post.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,863
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Sunak is increasingly looking like the Tory David Miliband.

    Miliband was unable to force Brown out pre 2010 as Sunak is unable to force Boris out now. In the end Miliband not only failed to become PM he even failed to become Leader of the Opposition after his brother beat him for the leadership after Labour lost power

    Reports he's Brexiteer in name only. Instrumental in blocking Article Sixteen trigger. Insisting on the highest tax rates in 70 years.

    GAME OVER.
    He has been an enthusiastic Brexiteer since his teens, so he's very definitely a believer.
    If all they've got on him is an accusation he is not a proper Brexiter which won't stack up, they must be worried, as that is the nuclear option to undermine someone. Particularly clumsy, as Leon says.
    When things get that desperate you know it is only a matter of time until it all falls apart. I wonder whet the odds of a Rishi resignation a la Geoffrey Howe. Will Rishi do a Geoffrey. Do it... do it....
    I doubt it. He appeared fully on board at PMQs. Truss is more likely. But it’s not going to happen. Boris is safe.
    From what I remember Geoffrey looked pretty on board until he wielded the knife. It is often what people don't say rather what they do.
    Let it go. We all have to learn to accept Boris is staying put. He is utterly unfit for office, but the Tory party decided to go all in backing him.
    Nope, not letting it go. Happy to be vilified and wear a hair shirt for a whole month and eat gruel if he is still in post in July.
    The trouble is there’s nothing anyone can do about it. The Tory MPs bottled it. We’re stuck with him for years, unless somehow Starmer can pull off a miracle and kick him out in 2024.
    A miracle isn't required. You simply have to trust that the public aren't completely away with the fairies. In Dec 19 Johnson was a bit of a novelty, and there was the compelling Get Brexit Done message, and there was Jeremy Corbyn. So, valid reasons for his win and no surprise that he did win. Next time none of this applies. No Brexit, no Corbyn, plus the public - assuming the most basic level of interest and critical faculties - have realized he's an incompetent, deeply corrupt sleazeball.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Well I push up the average lol.
    Good to hear!

    I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday

    In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
    Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.

    There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
    The economics of the holiday industry baffle me.
    I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital.
    And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year.
    And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
    The average family holiday to Spain or France, even in the height of summer, would cost far less than £3,000 probably under £1,000
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,093

    .

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Rishi has blown it. Like Michael Portillo and David Miliband before him, he'll been seen as a politician who had the great prize within his grasp but wibbled.

    Spot on, in the end Portillo failed to oust Major and Miliband failed to oust Brown and neither either ended up leaders of their party, loosing to IDS in 2001 and Ed Miliband in 2010 respectively.

    Though Portillo has had a successful post politics career doing rail programmes and Miliband is head of international rescue in Manhattan so all not lost for Sunak longer term.
    I wouldn't get too excited that your idol is in the clear. Whether it is Sunak or someone else, The Clown will not last past June IMO. There is just too much on him, and the vultures are just holding off until he is a little more wounded.

    My humble prediction is that the drip drip of allegations and insinuations will ensure he ends up with a terrible result in May. MPs in more marginal constituencies will apply the swing to their GE result and take action. Whether it will be too late to prevent a Labour win at the next GE is open to conjecture.
    As long as polls continue to show a hung parliament and a Labour lead under 10% and as long as the Tories hold Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea in May and as long as the Met and Gray inquiries find Boris did not do anything criminal. Then I predict Boris will still be PM and lead the Tories at the next general election
    Hung Parliament on under 10% Labour lead?

    Write out 100 times "Uniform National Swing does not work in the grand scheme of United Kingdom General Elections".
    It does, on UNS on the new boundaries even a 9% Labour lead only leads to Labour 309 seats and Tories 246.

    Labour still 17 short of a majority. Plus Starmer Labour is still not seen as as centrist as Blair's New Labour by the middle classes, even if not as bad as Corbyn Labour. So while they might tactically vote LD, they are much less likely to tactically vote Labour.

    Compare too the by election results in North Shropshire and Chesham and Amersham where the LDs were challengers and won with Old Bexley and Sidcup where Labour were challengers and the Tories held on
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=31&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I am afraid you are talking b*******!
    I am not, there is a 99% chance Starmer will not become PM with a majority in my view, even if he becomes PM with LD and SNP support in a hung parliament
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,425
    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    If you're going to SL you'd be better off renting a villa with a chef, I'm sure it would be much cheaper and also nicer. My brother in law and family did it a few years back, somewhere on the beach down south near Galle, and they loved it. We generally stay with family when we go over there which makes the holiday a lot more affordable, and if we do stay in a hotel it'll just be for a few nights. Smaller guesthouses can be very nice too, although it probably helps to have local connections to find a good one. We stayed at one near Sigiriya which was really just some rooms a woman had had built onto her house in the jungle, and she served amazing food on her verandah, it probably cost about £20 per night or something and you ate it surrounded by greenery and birds singing.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,581
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.

    In my experience the best is a mix. Spend 6 days somewhere characterful but cheap, then indulge yourself with a night or two of luxury. The contrast somehow makes both more enjoyable


    One of the nicest places I have stayed in the last decade (when I have been all over the world and done all the 5 star stuff) is here:

    https://e.xpda.co/d8RG4NU3MQXcdwVKOnsZwnpyCJ4

    Two star holiday apartments in Pelion Greece. About £40 a night in September (the ideal time to visit). Spellbinding
    Yes, a bit of luxury is nice. Tea at the Old Cataract over looking the Nile at Aswan for example, or tea again at Reids in Madeira. A night at The Ark in the Abedares in Kenya was a highlight too. On the other hand street food in SE Asia is so vibrant tasty and entertaining that it is hard to beat for quality and value.
    You don't pay full price for the £500 a night places. There are always deals/offers.

    Otherwise you are the guy who just paid full price for a shirt at TM Lewin.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    I am in the top 2% of income in the country and would consider that exhorbitant. My boys holiday on their own now, but I am off to Costa Rica later in the year for a budget of £2000 each for a fortnight for myself and Mrs Foxy, including direct flights and trips.

    I am not really a fan of luxury, and prefer 3 star type smaller places, as less sterile and more local colour.
    5 star hotels and 1st class flights at the expense of pharma companies no longer allowed now under the ABPI code eh? Must be a bummer!

    Getting at doctors are we, the Scots being quiet this afternoon? There were plenty of medics eschewing those voluntarily!
    There were plenty that weren't!

    That is a nasty insinuation about Scots, which I hope you might withdraw. I love Scotland and the Scottish people. I don't like 3 of the Nats on here because they regularly post things that are unpleasantly anti-English so they get what they deserve. I am not aware of any occasion that I have been rude to you because you express your desire for independence in a civilised way.
    I'll withdraw that, yes, but with the provision that you did give Malcolm a rough time recently quite unfairly (for a perfectly innocuous discussion of matters).

    Re the medics, indeed, but it's been interesting to see the rise in the campaign against such things, and the increasing insistence on formal statements in research papers.
    Sorry to say, but Malcolm is the rudest person here. He is an obnoxious bore and his unswerving fealty to Alex Salmond makes him a hypocrite when he attacks other politicians with his inarticulate garbage. That said, I think my kicking of him is less severe and less of a pile on than you have regularly given to HYUFD who is significantly less deserving of it than Malcolm.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,904
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    FPT from @Malmesbury

    “Not really. If you spend money on holidays, for a family, you tend to end up in something like that. Unless you really fight the demand for luxury bathrooms etc.”

    +++++


    I do not wish to pry into PB-ears private circumstances, but this is an intriguing comment

    If you had a family holiday here - the Galle hotel we have been discussing - you’d need three rooms for yourself, one for you and the partner, two for the kids

    But let’s budget and say just two rooms, and the kids share

    Rooms are £500 a night. That’s £1000 a night. For two weeks that’s £14,000. Add in flights to Sri Lanka, trips, and the rest, and you’re heading for £20,000. For a winter holiday

    Exactly how wealthy is the average PB-er?!

    Well I push up the average lol.
    Good to hear!

    I’m quite well off, I guess, but I would blink furiously at dropping £20k on a winter holiday

    In my professional capacity for the Knappers Gazette I’ve done trips that would have cost £100,000 for 2 weeks. They were great fun. But they certainly weren’t worth £100,000. I suppose some people are just so rich it doesn’t matter
    Spend £100k every two weeks and it adds up to £2.6m in a year, or £26m in a decade.

    There have been a few lottery jackpots that would still be left largely intact after that.
    The economics of the holiday industry baffle me.
    I don't feel well-off. But I know what the average family income is, and we earn a fair bit more than that. I usually tick one of the top two boxes in surveys on the 'household income' page. And while I'll never feel entirely comfortable, we're probably top decile for capital.
    And yet almost all holidays I see advertised are wildly, wildly unaffordable. I consider £3000 for a week away for five towards the upper end of extravagant. Yet almost any foreign family holiday that isn't transparently worse than staying at home seems to be more than this. I simply don't understand how this works. There surely can't be that many people who can afford a holiday like this every year.
    And don't get me started on Disneyland. Not that I want to go - but I don't see how more than a tiny proportion of the population can ever afford it.
    Disney inflation is quite eye watering! the original tickets in 1971 were $1 each for kids, $3.50 for adults.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-walt-disney-world-went-from-3-50-a-ticket-to-becoming-a-luxury-priced-destination-11633108165
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