It’s offtopic but it’s worth posting as usually it’s the country nearby that is more willing to reveal reality.
I get the logic of that, but is that really a thing? Irrespective of that example I doubt the reports of British papers on Ireland or France are generally considered more reliable than in the home countries.
And who knows what Russian papers say about the Ukraine?
Best example - why was the Spanish flu Spanish? Because reporting about how it was going in Spain allowed the truth to be reported. \here you publish a story about Brexit and half the audience thinks it’s a lie as Brexit isn’t an issue and the other half think the story isn’t accurate enough and things are worse.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
You don’t like Rishi or Liz or Sunak?
Rishi is Sunak !!!!!
There are two Rishi Sunaks.
One is chancellor of the exchequer and is raising NI and doing nothing about the energy crisis.
The other, who appears every so often, is a Thatcherite tax cutting uber mensch who has no idea why the tax burden is so high.
Rishi is letting it be known the NI increase was Boris and now the entire cabinet opposes it
I expect it will go, as a package of support to many for the energy crisis will come at the same time
Not true. Nadhim Zahawi was on R4 this morning supporting the NI hike to pay for the 'social care solution'. He's in the Cabinet.
I suspect Agnew's resignation due to the inadequate measures to check the validity of bounce back loans or to chase down fraud may harm Sunak. The Treasury's implementation of the scheme has been inadequate, and although civil servants may take the blame Sunak has ultimate responsibility. I know it's quite a lot of words, but here is what the National Audit Office concluded in December 21:
Report conclusions To achieve the policy intention of supporting small businesses quickly during the pandemic, the government prioritised payment speed over almost all other aspects of value for money. The Scheme facilitated faster lending by removing credit and affordability checks and allowing businesses to self-certify their application documents. As the Scheme progressed, it continued to rely on businesses self- certifying their application details, even as the urgent need for finance reduced. Government ruled out options for additional upfront counter-fraud measures when the Scheme was extended. The impact of prioritising speed is apparent in the high levels of estimated fraud. Counter-fraud activity was implemented too slowly to prevent fraud effectively and the Department’s focus is now on detection and recovery of fraudulent loans.
The Department needs to improve upon its identification, quantification, and recovery of fraudulent loans within the Scheme. Compared with the scale of its ‘most likely’ estimate of £4.9 billion of fraudulent loans, both the £32 million additional budget for counter-fraud operations, and its target to recover at least £6 million of fraudulent loans from organised crime, are inadequate. The Department has given low priority to tackling ‘bottom-tier’ fraud, including those loans where borrowers misstated turnover by less than 25%, owing to resource constraints. It expects lenders to focus on this fraud tier, but they have limited commercial incentives to do so.
That's pretty damning. I expect Rachel Reeves to be all over this in the coming days. Parties will get the headlines, but this could also be damaging -Tories don't like wasting taxpayers' money.
The Treasury "appears to have no knowledge or little interest in the consequences of fraud to our economy or our society", said Lord Agnew, resigning today at dispatch box.
Think how much tax can be cut with that 🤑 though there is also option to use it on hospital, schools or defence.
This was always going to become a story at some point - awful time for Rishi if it becomes a story right now. It’s currently keeping Boris latest party revelation off the top of the Sky page headlines. 😕
And there’s more to come, as this has yet to grow into a big story too, though it’s day will come?
Will be interesting to observe if pro Boris media go after Sunak as a means of helping Boris position…
From a political betting point of view there is just too much going on at once!
Relative to the amount of money spent on track and trace / furlough it’s small beer and it kept a lot of businesses going that might otherwise have died.
Yes more should be being done about fraud but Lord Agnew seems to be complaining that someone didn’t do the work he seems to have been responsible for
What were the test and trace costs, none of it really fraud though?
Somewhere near 40 billion I believe
There’s lot of good finance news too knocking around Big G 🙂
Before I get the Third Degree. I have never voted Conservative at a General Election. I think I count as not a real Tory. Like every bugger else bar one apparently.
I couldn't vote for Brown though, not after the GFC.
The only government's that I have supported in my political lifetime were Blair's first term and the Coalition. I joined the Lib Dems in 2013.
It’s offtopic but it’s worth posting as usually it’s the country nearby that is more willing to reveal reality.
Brexit is going well and this is January when traffic is at its lowest
Is it naive of me to think, great, less traffic on the roads, and better for environment?
We've had this discussion before and, yes, that's a benefit for us.
However, lower economies of scale, from less business, means that there are likely to be higher costs and less frequent services between Britain and Ireland and between Britain and France/Belgium., as a result too.
Also, the reason why the lorries are going elsewhere is important. If it was because HMG had wanted to drive them away, and so had imposed a "land bridge tax", then you could claim success. As it seems to be happening because the delays at the ports means the land bridge is too slow and unreliable, then it looks less like a success. A symptom of wider problems, perhaps.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
You do not know swing voters if you think I am one
Voted conservative every GE for the last 60 years apart from 1997 and 2001
PB community: does anyone use Kochava? (It's a mobile app advertising tracking service. So, I'm guessing no. But you never know.)
Back in 2019 I had a number of conversations with adobe that basically went we do that (type of tracking) in the States but can’t do it in Europe so I suspect no-one here will be able to help much
Minster resigning, indifference to fraud and "schoolboy errors". Very definitely not the image Rishi wants to give. Interesting timing.
Team Rishi just hit back with the birthday party. That's going to get the headlines.
You are probably right but it shouldn't. £4.3bn of losses is really serious, unlike a bloody birthday cake.
Presumably the line will be due to the “urgency of getting funds out” that mistakes were made.
Though I think the constant drip feeding of party stories means story back to Johnson
I think that that excuse is actually fair enough. If you helicopter money into an economy some is going to end up in undesirable places. But it doesn't excuse feeble attempts to recover it afterwards.
Also the deaths consequent on EOTHO remain a vulnerability.
It might be made so but I think the causal link there is just too tenuous. When I went out for my EOTHO meals at the Birkie Inn it was table service only, masks on except when eating and drinking and strict social distancing between tables. Would have been pretty unlucky catching Covid in such circumstances, especially before Omicron or even Delta.
It was never social distancing but ventilation that was the true issue - as shown by that superb case study of a restaurant very early on in the epidemic showing the spread of the virus by an air con system. In those circs, it's not a question of whether there was an uptick but how much of one there was. And IIRC the two studies of this issue for EOTHO agreed within a fairly narrow range (factor of 2, which is excellent for such things). It's not convenient at present for HMG to admit this was an issue but it does objectively remain a vulnerability for a politician who identified himself so publicly with it - photo ops and all. I'd be surprised if it does come up, but it is there.
We have seen all too clearly that you can make a political story out of almost anything. Osborne and the Gregg pastie remains a classic of the genre.
On ventilation you are completely right. I found, throughout the pandemic that we were very, very bad at discarding things that were found not to work and very, very poor at substituting them with things that were found to do so.
All that handwashing crap and wiping down every seat people sat in. Absolutely pointless. Ventilation very much not so.
The Gregg's pastie thing was just a symbol for Osborne's omnishambles budget which lumped on costs for the people he was supposed to be helping, VAT on church repairs and so on. It was not something out of nothing.
I remain totally un-outraged by partygate. However, it's clear I am in a small minority. For me, this is an opportunity for Boris to be moved on - his legacy is assured, and now we should bring in a more businesslike PM and leader of the Tory Party.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
Before I get the Third Degree. I have never voted Conservative at a General Election. I think I count as not a real Tory. Like every bugger else bar one apparently.
I have never voted Conservative either. Nonetheless for a certain brand of non- Conservative, I am a red Tory.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
You don’t like Rishi or Liz or Sunak?
Rishi is Sunak !!!!!
There are two Rishi Sunaks.
One is chancellor of the exchequer and is raising NI and doing nothing about the energy crisis.
The other, who appears every so often, is a Thatcherite tax cutting uber mensch who has no idea why the tax burden is so high.
Rishi is letting it be known the NI increase was Boris and now the entire cabinet opposes it
I expect it will go, as a package of support to many for the energy crisis will come at the same time
Not true. Nadhim Zahawi was on R4 this morning supporting the NI hike to pay for the 'social care solution'. He's in the Cabinet.
It is reported the cabinet oppose the hike but it is in law and will need to be repealed
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
You do not know swing voters if you think I am one
Voted conservative every GE for the last 60 years apart from 1997 and 2001
I did not say you were the perfect swing voter but the closest thing we have to a swing voter ie voted for New Labour and Blair but Tory since.
The fact you may have voted for Thatcher, Heath, Macmillan, Churchill, Baldwin, Salisbury, Disraeli and Pitt the Younger in your time does not change that!
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed. Also. Have really spotty O2 coverage. How do I find out if other providers have better? Thanks. A techno non phile.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
True enough. I voted Communist in a council election in Leeds when I was an idealistic 18-year old.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
I would expect most on here normally vote Labour/LD or Tory at most general elections, with a few voting SNP in Scotland. Only a minority I would suggest voted Tory in 2019 for example and for New Labour from 1997-2005
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed. Also. Have really spotty O2 coverage. How do I find out if other providers have better? Thanks. A techno non phile.
Check what the coverage pages say on each networks website
Beth Rigby @BethRigby · 22m Former cabinet minister tells me majority of MPs want PM to get a grip, but it becoming harder as chaos consumes No 10 w no sign of stabilisation. But, PM helped by no obvious successor, which creates some inertia. That said, the attrition needs to stop. Move in 10 @SkyNews 2/
It all comes down to Sue Gray and these latest allegations are known to her
The complicating factor for conservative mps is this Ukraine crisis and changing their leader just now
I expect Boris to squeak through but is far from safe and much will no doubt depend on May's locals
Ukraine will save Johnson I think.
At least of all the cabinet who might be involved in war planning Wallace seems up to the job.
That assumes that Ukraine will go well. I can't say I am too confident about that.
I don't think it will end well for anyone, especially Ukraine and Russia.
I shouldn't think so either, but someone thinking that UK politics needs to stop because we need 'war planning' is utterly and completely barking. It is scary to think that anyone believes a cold, muddy stretch of Eastern European shithole is worth a drop of British blood or a penny of British expenditure. Some of the most sensible posters here (on other issues) have scented gunpowder and are determined to show Putin what for - though obviously one cannot imagine them running headlong into the cannon's mouth themselves...
If Johnson holding a cake is the end (even if the photo in question was not at Downing Street and broke no rules), then it would be a brilliantly apt bookend to a tenure that started with cakeism.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
You don’t like Rishi or Liz or Sunak?
Rishi is Sunak !!!!!
There are two Rishi Sunaks.
One is chancellor of the exchequer and is raising NI and doing nothing about the energy crisis.
The other, who appears every so often, is a Thatcherite tax cutting uber mensch who has no idea why the tax burden is so high.
Rishi is letting it be known the NI increase was Boris and now the entire cabinet opposes it
I expect it will go, as a package of support to many for the energy crisis will come at the same time
The sensible thing is to pause the NI rise, saying there is a crisis of living and then never ever mention it again.
Since its inception, I’ve been saying on here that it won’t happen. I have seen nothing to dissuade me from my longstanding view.
That was my supposition, but people seem keen to bandy the idea that he was (a) near death and (b) ventilated. On the latter, it maybe not appreciating the difference.
Articles from the time (eg this Grauniad piece) say he was on oxygen and the doctors were seriously considering having to put him on a ventilator, but didn't need to in the end. So no to (b), but on (a) that's still closer to death than I would be happy to approach myself...
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
You don’t like Rishi or Liz or Sunak?
Rishi is Sunak !!!!!
There are two Rishi Sunaks.
One is chancellor of the exchequer and is raising NI and doing nothing about the energy crisis.
The other, who appears every so often, is a Thatcherite tax cutting uber mensch who has no idea why the tax burden is so high.
Rishi is letting it be known the NI increase was Boris and now the entire cabinet opposes it
I expect it will go, as a package of support to many for the energy crisis will come at the same time
The sensible thing is to pause the NI rise, saying there is a crisis of living and then never ever mention it again.
I expect that to happen but everything is paralysed waiting for Sue Gray
We need the report urgently
How can she finish it, when every day there is a new party revelation?
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
You do not know swing voters if you think I am one
Voted conservative every GE for the last 60 years apart from 1997 and 2001
I did not say you were the perfect swing voter but the closest thing we have to a swing voter ie voted for New Labour and Blair but Tory since.
The fact you may have voted for Thatcher, Heath, Macmillan, Churchill, Baldwin, Salisbury, Disraeli and Pitt the Younger in your time does not change that!
What is this may have, I did vote for Thatcher and Heath
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
You don’t like Rishi or Liz or Sunak?
Rishi is Sunak !!!!!
There are two Rishi Sunaks.
One is chancellor of the exchequer and is raising NI and doing nothing about the energy crisis.
The other, who appears every so often, is a Thatcherite tax cutting uber mensch who has no idea why the tax burden is so high.
Rishi is letting it be known the NI increase was Boris and now the entire cabinet opposes it
I expect it will go, as a package of support to many for the energy crisis will come at the same time
Not true. Nadhim Zahawi was on R4 this morning supporting the NI hike to pay for the 'social care solution'. He's in the Cabinet.
It is reported the cabinet oppose the hike but it is in law and will need to be repealed
No matter what he said it is going
I did seem a bit weird to whip it through with rudimentary debate. Yet another thing this arrogant and incompetent government has done.
I suspect Agnew's resignation due to the inadequate measures to check the validity of bounce back loans or to chase down fraud may harm Sunak. The Treasury's implementation of the scheme has been inadequate, and although civil servants may take the blame Sunak has ultimate responsibility. I know it's quite a lot of words, but here is what the National Audit Office concluded in December 21:
Report conclusions To achieve the policy intention of supporting small businesses quickly during the pandemic, the government prioritised payment speed over almost all other aspects of value for money. The Scheme facilitated faster lending by removing credit and affordability checks and allowing businesses to self-certify their application documents. As the Scheme progressed, it continued to rely on businesses self- certifying their application details, even as the urgent need for finance reduced. Government ruled out options for additional upfront counter-fraud measures when the Scheme was extended. The impact of prioritising speed is apparent in the high levels of estimated fraud. Counter-fraud activity was implemented too slowly to prevent fraud effectively and the Department’s focus is now on detection and recovery of fraudulent loans.
The Department needs to improve upon its identification, quantification, and recovery of fraudulent loans within the Scheme. Compared with the scale of its ‘most likely’ estimate of £4.9 billion of fraudulent loans, both the £32 million additional budget for counter-fraud operations, and its target to recover at least £6 million of fraudulent loans from organised crime, are inadequate. The Department has given low priority to tackling ‘bottom-tier’ fraud, including those loans where borrowers misstated turnover by less than 25%, owing to resource constraints. It expects lenders to focus on this fraud tier, but they have limited commercial incentives to do so.
That's pretty damning. I expect Rachel Reeves to be all over this in the coming days. Parties will get the headlines, but this could also be damaging -Tories don't like wasting taxpayers' money.
The Treasury "appears to have no knowledge or little interest in the consequences of fraud to our economy or our society", said Lord Agnew, resigning today at dispatch box.
Think how much tax can be cut with that 🤑 though there is also option to use it on hospital, schools or defence.
This was always going to become a story at some point - awful time for Rishi if it becomes a story right now. It’s currently keeping Boris latest party revelation off the top of the Sky page headlines. 😕
And there’s more to come, as this has yet to grow into a big story too, though it’s day will come?
Will be interesting to observe if pro Boris media go after Sunak as a means of helping Boris position…
From a political betting point of view there is just too much going on at once!
Relative to the amount of money spent on track and trace / furlough it’s small beer and it kept a lot of businesses going that might otherwise have died.
Yes more should be being done about fraud but Lord Agnew seems to be complaining that someone didn’t do the work he seems to have been responsible for
What were the test and trace costs, none of it really fraud though?
Somewhere near 40 billion I believe
There’s lot of good finance news too knocking around Big G 🙂
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
You say that, but I bet there will be some faces sticking around if Boris goes, there have the be some place fillers. The Scottish and Welsh secretaries will probably be fine, continuity in the provinces as Truss might say.
Well MacArthur let Hirohito and others remain in office after the end of WWII, mostly as figureheads.
You don’t like Rishi or Liz or Sunak?
Rishi is Sunak !!!!!
There are two Rishi Sunaks.
One is chancellor of the exchequer and is raising NI and doing nothing about the energy crisis.
The other, who appears every so often, is a Thatcherite tax cutting uber mensch who has no idea why the tax burden is so high.
Rishi is letting it be known the NI increase was Boris and now the entire cabinet opposes it
I expect it will go, as a package of support to many for the energy crisis will come at the same time
The sensible thing is to pause the NI rise, saying there is a crisis of living and then never ever mention it again.
I expect that to happen but everything is paralysed waiting for Sue Gray
We need the report urgently
How can she finish it, when every day there is a new party revelation?
Was any work done in Downing Street in 2020?
She is already aware of todays revelations so hopefully in the next few days
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
True enough. I voted Communist in a council election in Leeds when I was an idealistic 18-year old.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
True enough. I voted Communist in a council election in Leeds when I was an idealistic 18-year old.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Corroboration. It isn't required in English law outwith a limited set of circumstances. A jury can convict on the evidence of one adult saying "I saw x do y."
In some cases, with some crimes, and with some victims, juries are very reluctant to convict on the evidence of the victim.
So reluctant that the CPS and police routinely drop investigations for lack of evidence, and have been found not to record incidents as crimes.
I didn’t vote Labour in 1997 and I didn’t vote Conservative in 2019. Is that any good?
To be classed a swing voter, no
Of course you are the divine arbiter of the definition of swing voter
Not voting against two different parties at two different elections doesn't make you a swing voter, you could be voting for the same third party each time...
I didn’t vote Labour in 1997 and I didn’t vote Conservative in 2019. Is that any good?
To be classed a swing voter, no
Of course you are the divine arbiter of the definition of swing voter
Not voting against two different parties at two different elections doesn't make you a swing voter, you could be voting for the same third party each time...
Beth Rigby @BethRigby · 22m Former cabinet minister tells me majority of MPs want PM to get a grip, but it becoming harder as chaos consumes No 10 w no sign of stabilisation. But, PM helped by no obvious successor, which creates some inertia. That said, the attrition needs to stop. Move in 10 @SkyNews 2/
It all comes down to Sue Gray and these latest allegations are known to her
The complicating factor for conservative mps is this Ukraine crisis and changing their leader just now
I expect Boris to squeak through but is far from safe and much will no doubt depend on May's locals
Ukraine will save Johnson I think.
At least of all the cabinet who might be involved in war planning Wallace seems up to the job.
That assumes that Ukraine will go well. I can't say I am too confident about that.
I don't think it will end well for anyone, especially Ukraine and Russia.
I shouldn't think so either, but someone thinking that UK politics needs to stop because we need 'war planning' is utterly and completely barking. It is scary to think that anyone believes a cold, muddy stretch of Eastern European shithole is worth a drop of British blood or a penny of British expenditure. Some of the most sensible posters here (on other issues) have scented gunpowder and are determined to show Putin what for - though obviously one cannot imagine them running headlong into the cannon's mouth themselves...
I watched RT news tonight to get Moscow's perspective on what is going on. It seems naval manoeuvres in the Med are a provocation.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
True enough. I voted Communist in a council election in Leeds when I was an idealistic 18-year old.
snap - Bulwell (east?) Nottingham 1987
John Peck?
Yes - to be boastful I acted as an advisor to him on environmental matters
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
Don't be daft. I don't think there are many regular posters on here who've always voted the same way.
True enough. I voted Communist in a council election in Leeds when I was an idealistic 18-year old.
I haven’t had the vote long and have only voted Libdem, Green and Count Binface.
Though I regret the Green vote now as they are loonies
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed.
If I were you I would drop the "without a landline" requirement. You might need one for the service (if using BT either directly or via another provider) or find the monthly subscription is actually cheaper with one than without (if using Virgin or other cable provider), but you don't have to use it. Just add up the total costs and see what's most sensible.
Your main constraint will be "what is actually connected to the house", ie does it have a BT line, a cable TV connection, is it in an area cabled up by CityFibre? (I'm ignoring "use mobile data for everything" since you say the signal's poor.
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
I have voted for 5 different parties at GE.
Con 1 Lib 1 SDP 1 Lib Dem 2 Green 2 Lab 3
Since 1983
Oh, what the hell:
Labour 1997 LD 2001 LD 2005 Tory 2010 Labour 2015 Tory 2017 Tory 2019
I've finally got covid, just done a positive LFT test. Went to cancel my advance train ticket for tomorrow, and found that such train tickets are no longer refundable on the grounds of Covid. The thing is that I would have gone on my trip had it not been for the self isolation rules which as a good citizen I am following. I am not particularly ill, at the moment. If this 'self isolation' is going to continue, people need proper compensation for consequential losses. Otherwise people will just stop following the rules, unless they have an incentive to, ie they have a job they dislike and qualify for fully paid sick leave.
Best of British, friend. May you continue to not be ill. And yes, you are right.
Cheers. At the moment its just a mild flu, would normally have just tried to carry on as normal and take lemsip every few hours etc. But having had the positive test result and being forced to isolate in the living room, its all suddenly come in to focus.
Quite a moment when the second line came up on the LFT test after all this time.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
I have voted for 5 different parties at GE.
Con 1 Lib 1 SDP 1 Lib Dem 2 Green 2 Lab 3
Since 1983
Oh, what the hell:
Labour 1997 LD 2001 LD 2005 Tory 2010 Labour 2015 Tory 2017 Tory 2019
Well Sunil, you are certainly more of a swing voter than Gallowgate and IanB2 then
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed.
If I were you I would drop the "without a landline" requirement. You might need one for the service (if using BT either directly or via another provider) or find the monthly subscription is actually cheaper with one than without (if using Virgin or other cable provider), but you don't have to use it. Just add up the total costs and see what's most sensible.
Your main constraint will be "what is actually connected to the house", ie does it have a BT line, a cable TV connection, is it in an area cabled up by CityFibre? (I'm ignoring "use mobile data for everything" since you say the signal's poor.
Just switched my parents to Now Broadband Fab Fibre. £20pcm up to 36Mbps (they're rural but have fibre to their exchange) including landline and anytime calls. They were on a £46pcm package.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed. Also. Have really spotty O2 coverage. How do I find out if other providers have better? Thanks. A techno non phile.
Check what the coverage pages say on each networks website
Get a cheap PAYG Sim for each of Vodafone, 3 and EE or one of the MVNO providers like Smarty and try each of them out for a few days. You could also check the coverage with the OFCOM checker app, though it may not be particularly reliable.
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed.
If I were you I would drop the "without a landline" requirement. You might need one for the service (if using BT either directly or via another provider) or find the monthly subscription is actually cheaper with one than without (if using Virgin or other cable provider), but you don't have to use it. Just add up the total costs and see what's most sensible.
Your main constraint will be "what is actually connected to the house", ie does it have a BT line, a cable TV connection, is it in an area cabled up by CityFibre? (I'm ignoring "use mobile data for everything" since you say the signal's poor.
Just switched my parents to Now Broadband Fab Fibre. £20pcm up to 36Mbps (they're rural but have fibre to their exchange) including landline and anytime calls. They were on a £46pcm package.
Now or plus.net would be the go to for line based broadband.
I suspect the question was more what can I use until I get things sorted which really is go to the three, ee and Vodafone websites see which one offers the best deal and then grab that.
For Ee their cheaper network is plus.net, for three it’s three or smarty and I can’t remember what Vodafone’s is or whether they actually have one
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
Is there something you’re trying to tell us, Nigel?
Anyway. PB help, please. Just moved. What is a good Internet provider without a landline?⁰ Cheap if possible. Reliability and customer service more important than speed.
If I were you I would drop the "without a landline" requirement. You might need one for the service (if using BT either directly or via another provider) or find the monthly subscription is actually cheaper with one than without (if using Virgin or other cable provider), but you don't have to use it. Just add up the total costs and see what's most sensible.
Your main constraint will be "what is actually connected to the house", ie does it have a BT line, a cable TV connection, is it in an area cabled up by CityFibre? (I'm ignoring "use mobile data for everything" since you say the signal's poor.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
Is there something you’re trying to tell us, Nigel?
BBC Newsnight @BBCNewsnight · 16m "My family stuck to the rules. Every other family stuck to the rules. The Royal Family stuck to the rules. Why couldn't Boris Johnson?"
Shadow cabinet minister Peter Kyle says a reported No 10 birthday party for the PM is "completely and utterly inexcusable"
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorries · 4h So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott · 1h Trying to picture how Carrie’s interior designer Lulu Lytle fits into this generous take on events?? Did she take a ten minute break from hanging the gold wallpaper upstairs to pop in for some Victoria sponge?
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
Is there something you’re trying to tell us, Nigel?
Only if you live in my area
I’m in Manhattan now. Not sure what the swinging signifier is. I’m guessing it’s not OMO boxes.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
No, a swing voter is someone who decides elections eg voted Tory under Thatcher and Major from 1979 to 1992 at the first election they could vote in, then for Blair and New Labour from 1997 to 2005 and has voted Tory since
Without witnesses or recordings, I don't see how an investigation into this can proceed. What possible coroberation can there be?
Knowing this shower of shite there's probably an email saying 'Sack that Paki woman.'
And you rejoined this shower??
To try and ensure another a sensible Tory becomes leader, not another moonbat person.
So who of the candidates would you like?
Not quite the same question as who would you bet on, of course.
Hunt, Ellwood, Tugendhat, and Bell.
Nobody from this cabinet which in future will be spoken with the same disdain as the Vichy Government.
I don't think that I will be voting Tory again, at least not in the foreseeable future, but those would be a step in the right direction.
As a matter of interest, when was the last time you voted Tory at a general election?
2010
I have voted in every GE since 1983, this was the only Conservative vote.
Well at least you have not never voted Tory, albeit you did not vote Tory in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
I've never voted Tory. Does that mean I'm cancelled?
No, though I think the closest thing we have on PB to a swing voter is BigG. Voted Labour for Blair in 1997 and 2001 and has voted Tory since but not keen on Boris
I have voted for 5 different parties at GE.
Con 1 Lib 1 SDP 1 Lib Dem 2 Green 2 Lab 3
Since 1983
Oh, what the hell:
Labour 1997 LD 2001 LD 2005 Tory 2010 Labour 2015 Tory 2017 Tory 2019
That strikes me as the sanest swing pattern ever. You are the swingierest sheep of all Sunil, we should anoint you with a bell around your neck.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
No, a swing voter is someone who decides elections eg voted Tory under Thatcher and Major from 1979 to 1992 at the first election they could vote in, then for Blair and New Labour from 1997 to 2005 and has voted Tory since
Not really relevant if you’ve only voted in safe seats like myself
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
No, a swing voter is someone who decides elections eg voted Tory under Thatcher and Major from 1979 to 1992, then for Blair and New Labour from 1997 to 2005 and has voted Tory since
Not as bad as the European markets including London. But, then, they are not facing the largest war since Gulf War 1 on their doorstep with millions of refugees fleeing into western Europe. are they?
But the UK is obsessed about parties
That is as stupid as saying the Huhne case was just about speeding. You may not mind being governed by a liar, but there are valid objections to it
Oh FFS. I suppose he can genuinely say that he did not know about this party because it was a surprise. And, in the real world you have 30 people working in the cabinet room for an hour or two and then his wife brings in a cake. I am struggling to see the risk here. But the drip, drip, drip is just making him look ridiculous.
Yes it is ridiculous. But the man we must assume is behind it is refusing to be interviewed and is playing his own games with the investigation and with us.
And this is making me really annoyed. The investigation is not there to dance to the tune of Cummings or anyone else. It's not there so he can have his vendettas against the PM or his wife or anyone else. It's not there to be held hostage to his vanity and sense of self-entitlement.
I'd be half inclined to call a halt to it and say that, in order to be fair to all concerned, she's referring the evidence collected to the police so that they can take it further as they have powers to obtain evidence and interviews she does not have.
Where there is sufficient evidence for disciplinary proceedings short of criminal action she will assist the relevant HR departments in the normal way.
Armchair expertise. in the real world, Gray has no power to compel witnesses; there is no protocol which says that oral evidence is to be preferred to written; as far as we know (and we have only heard from Cummings) she has come to an agreement with him that his evidence should be written; should that not be the case, she will no doubt say so in her report.
As she can only take statements (not have exams in chief/cross exams by Counsel) the written vs oral distinction is absolutely irrelevant here.
Armchair expertise?
You're describing yourself I imagine.
Because I'm afraid - and at the risk of being called patronising again and on the basis of my experience in the real world of investigations - on this topic you give the impression you have no idea what you are talking about. Investigations are not like Commercial Court litigation, as you seem to think. It is perfectly possible for a good trained investigator to do an interview without the need for examination in chief, cross-examination etc, it is not good practice to accept written evidence without an interview and if someone external is prepared to co-operate they should do so properly.
Cummings cannot be compelled. Though it would be interesting to see whether he is under any ongoing contractual obligation to assist his former employer under the terms of his departure, a clause I have often seen in departure agreements. But he can be criticised for the way he is responding. And I do. He is undermining the investigation though doubtless she is doing her best given the terms of reference and the pressure she will be under.
If I was being asked to support this investigation after leaving my reaction would be the same as Mr Cummings, I would want a paper trail to ensure I wasn’t intentional misinterpreted
There are ways of doing this while still doing a face to face interview.
The problem here is that Cummings appears to want to control matters. He can't. And he shouldn't be allowed to.
Talking of controlling matters, have you seen the story in the Guardian about Dr Konstancja Duff. Another humdinger of an arrest and strip search at the notorious Stoke Newington nick, oh and the subsequent failed prosecution and civil action between the Professor and the Met.
Little sympathy on here I would wager. She looks a bit "Me too, woke".
Interesting story. As someone who was subjected to a vaguely similar ordeal by the police 20 years ago I've got a lot of sympathy for her and the fact that she fought this out for years and eventually won.
However, I can also see that it really isn't a good idea for members of the public to obstruct police actions. You can't ever know what you are getting in to.
Yes but there are some quite important details that the guardian have missed. Firstly, the guy that the police were searching actually had a knife on him. Secondly, after intervening in their operation to hand out her card, she engaged in 'passive resistance', forcing her to be carried to the van.
For your future possible usage (if you are partial to a little swinging) and @Gardenwalker, I am reliably informed that those that swing have been known to put a box of a certain manufacturer of washing powder in their window to signify that they are On My Own. If you only have a packet of Persil this may not work so well.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
No, a swing voter is someone who decides elections eg voted Tory under Thatcher and Major from 1979 to 1992 at the first election they could vote in, then for Blair and New Labour from 1997 to 2005 and has voted Tory since
You missed Heath and the elections I was both the late Lord Wyn Roberts and David Jones driver and the rest actively supporting the party.
If you spoke to any conservative here they would laugh you out of court and reject any idea I was a swing voter
For your future possible usage (if you are partial to a little swinging) and @Gardenwalker, I am reliably informed that those that swing have been known to put a box of a certain manufacturer of washing powder in their window to signify that they are On My Own. If you only have a packet of Persil this may not work so well.
Cheers. I'm newly single. So will take that on advisement.
Not as bad as the European markets including London. But, then, they are not facing the largest war since Gulf War 1 on their doorstep with millions of refugees fleeing into western Europe. are they?
But the UK is obsessed about parties
That is as stupid as saying the Huhne case was just about speeding. You may not mind being governed by a liar, but there are valid objections to it
Oh FFS. I suppose he can genuinely say that he did not know about this party because it was a surprise. And, in the real world you have 30 people working in the cabinet room for an hour or two and then his wife brings in a cake. I am struggling to see the risk here. But the drip, drip, drip is just making him look ridiculous.
Yes it is ridiculous. But the man we must assume is behind it is refusing to be interviewed and is playing his own games with the investigation and with us.
And this is making me really annoyed. The investigation is not there to dance to the tune of Cummings or anyone else. It's not there so he can have his vendettas against the PM or his wife or anyone else. It's not there to be held hostage to his vanity and sense of self-entitlement.
I'd be half inclined to call a halt to it and say that, in order to be fair to all concerned, she's referring the evidence collected to the police so that they can take it further as they have powers to obtain evidence and interviews she does not have.
Where there is sufficient evidence for disciplinary proceedings short of criminal action she will assist the relevant HR departments in the normal way.
Armchair expertise. in the real world, Gray has no power to compel witnesses; there is no protocol which says that oral evidence is to be preferred to written; as far as we know (and we have only heard from Cummings) she has come to an agreement with him that his evidence should be written; should that not be the case, she will no doubt say so in her report.
As she can only take statements (not have exams in chief/cross exams by Counsel) the written vs oral distinction is absolutely irrelevant here.
Armchair expertise?
You're describing yourself I imagine.
Because I'm afraid - and at the risk of being called patronising again and on the basis of my experience in the real world of investigations - on this topic you give the impression you have no idea what you are talking about. Investigations are not like Commercial Court litigation, as you seem to think. It is perfectly possible for a good trained investigator to do an interview without the need for examination in chief, cross-examination etc, it is not good practice to accept written evidence without an interview and if someone external is prepared to co-operate they should do so properly.
Cummings cannot be compelled. Though it would be interesting to see whether he is under any ongoing contractual obligation to assist his former employer under the terms of his departure, a clause I have often seen in departure agreements. But he can be criticised for the way he is responding. And I do. He is undermining the investigation though doubtless she is doing her best given the terms of reference and the pressure she will be under.
If I was being asked to support this investigation after leaving my reaction would be the same as Mr Cummings, I would want a paper trail to ensure I wasn’t intentional misinterpreted
There are ways of doing this while still doing a face to face interview.
The problem here is that Cummings appears to want to control matters. He can't. And he shouldn't be allowed to.
Talking of controlling matters, have you seen the story in the Guardian about Dr Konstancja Duff. Another humdinger of an arrest and strip search at the notorious Stoke Newington nick, oh and the subsequent failed prosecution and civil action between the Professor and the Met.
Little sympathy on here I would wager. She looks a bit "Me too, woke".
Interesting story. As someone who was subjected to a vaguely similar ordeal by the police 20 years ago I've got a lot of sympathy for her and the fact that she fought this out for years and eventually won.
However, I can also see that it really isn't a good idea for members of the public to obstruct police actions. You can't ever know what you are getting in to.
Yes but there are some quite important details that the guardian have missed. Firstly, the guy that the police were searching actually had a knife on him. Secondly, after intervening in their operation to hand out her card, she engaged in 'passive resistance', forcing her to be carried to the van.
So what? She'd committed no offence and passively refusing to cooperate in the arrest seems a reasonable response. But even if she'd been guilty of some dreadful crime, the gloating victimisation of her would be just disgusting.
For your future possible usage (if you are partial to a little swinging) and @Gardenwalker, I am reliably informed that those that swing have been known to put a box of a certain manufacturer of washing powder in their window to signify that they are On My Own. If you only have a packet of Persil this may not work so well.
Cheers. I'm newly single. So will take that on advisement.
Don’t forget Daz, if you crave the amorous attention of Danny Baker.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
No, a swing voter is someone who decides elections eg voted Tory under Thatcher and Major from 1979 to 1992, then for Blair and New Labour from 1997 to 2005 and has voted Tory since
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorries · 4h So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott · 1h Trying to picture how Carrie’s interior designer Lulu Lytle fits into this generous take on events?? Did she take a ten minute break from hanging the gold wallpaper upstairs to pop in for some Victoria sponge?
OK so I was willing to give them a break for the party in the garden which is a reasonable place to have a party even if the boffins have decided to ban it in the official policy because it's too hard to communicate the difference between "indoors" and "outdoors" to the great unwashed.
But in the middle of the pandemic these people are doing *indoor singing*??? I don't care about the hypocrisy which should is what you'd expect of Boris but how can you be so fucking stupid?
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorries · 4h So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott · 1h Trying to picture how Carrie’s interior designer Lulu Lytle fits into this generous take on events?? Did she take a ten minute break from hanging the gold wallpaper upstairs to pop in for some Victoria sponge?
OK so I was willing to give them a break for the party in the garden which is a reasonable place to have a party even if the boffins have decided to ban it in the official policy because it's too hard to communicate the difference between "indoors" and "outdoors" to the great unwashed.
But in the middle of the pandemic these people are doing *indoor singing*??? I don't care about the hypocrisy which should is what you'd expect of Boris but how can you be so fucking stupid?
The Prime Minister needs to fire his wife.
What you and the rest of us are once again forgetting is that rules are only for the ordinary people.
Nadine Dorries @NadineDorries · 4h So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott · 1h Trying to picture how Carrie’s interior designer Lulu Lytle fits into this generous take on events?? Did she take a ten minute break from hanging the gold wallpaper upstairs to pop in for some Victoria sponge?
OK so I was willing to give them a break for the party in the garden which is a reasonable place to have a party even if the boffins have decided to ban it in the official policy because it's too hard to communicate the difference between "indoors" and "outdoors" to the great unwashed.
But in the middle of the pandemic these people are doing *indoor singing*??? I don't care about the hypocrisy which should is what you'd expect of Boris but how can you be so fucking stupid?
The Prime Minister needs to fire his wife.
I know it’s considered misogynistic to criticise Carrie, but she’s the only PM spouse I’m aware of who lost her last job due to “expense irregularities”.
2010 - spoilt ballot 2015 - green 2017 - lib dem 2019 - labour
So you are centre left then, not a swing voter.
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
What a load of bollox. A swing voter is simply someone who changes from their previous voting pattern. they do not need to be serial swingers, nor do they need pampas grass in their front garden or a packet of OMO visible in their front window.
No, a swing voter is someone who decides elections eg voted Tory under Thatcher and Major from 1979 to 1992, then for Blair and New Labour from 1997 to 2005 and has voted Tory since
True enough. I voted Communist in a council election in Leeds when I was an idealistic 18-year old.
snap - Bulwell (east?) Nottingham 1987
John Peck?
I should think so? A Communist friend from Nottingham told me wryly that they worked for 20 years to get to the point that he was about become Mayor...whereupon he switched to the Greens. The key to his success was basically that he was a much-respected local GP.
Comments
\here you publish a story about Brexit and half the audience thinks it’s a lie as Brexit isn’t an issue and the other half think the story isn’t accurate enough and things are worse.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/global-economics/fiscal-windfall-set-to-help-sunak-relieve-u-k-s-energy-crunch
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/378627/oguk-calculates-3bn-bonanza-for-uk-treasury-from-surging-gas-prices/
The only government's that I have supported in my political lifetime were Blair's first term and the Coalition. I joined the Lib Dems in 2013.
However, lower economies of scale, from less business, means that there are likely to be higher costs and less frequent services between Britain and Ireland and between Britain and France/Belgium., as a result too.
Also, the reason why the lorries are going elsewhere is important. If it was because HMG had wanted to drive them away, and so had imposed a "land bridge tax", then you could claim success. As it seems to be happening because the delays at the ports means the land bridge is too slow and unreliable, then it looks less like a success. A symptom of wider problems, perhaps.
Voted conservative every GE for the last 60 years apart from 1997 and 2001
No matter what he said it is going
The fact you may have voted for Thatcher, Heath, Macmillan, Churchill, Baldwin, Salisbury, Disraeli and Pitt the Younger in your time does not change that!
Con 1
Lib 1
SDP 1
Lib Dem 2
Green 2
Lab 3
Since 1983
Also. Have really spotty O2 coverage. How do I find out if other providers have better?
Thanks.
A techno non phile.
Was any work done in Downing Street in 2020?
So reluctant that the CPS and police routinely drop investigations for lack of evidence, and have been found not to record incidents as crimes.
Though I regret the Green vote now as they are loonies
Your main constraint will be "what is actually connected to the house", ie does it have a BT line, a cable TV connection, is it in an area cabled up by CityFibre? (I'm ignoring "use mobile data for everything" since you say the signal's poor.
2015 - green
2017 - lib dem
2019 - labour
Labour 1997
LD 2001
LD 2005
Tory 2010
Labour 2015
Tory 2017
Tory 2019
To be a swing voter you would at least need to have voted Conservative twice from 2010 to 2019, ideally in 2015 and 2019 when the Tories won majorities
That's makes me dwt=0.01 in most opinion polling.
He has voted, inter alia,
1983 - Labour
1997 - Tory
In 1983 he was an idealistic young doctor.
By 1987 he was part of Thatcher’s share owning democracy.
I suspect the question was more what can I use until I get things sorted which really is go to the three, ee and Vodafone websites see which one offers the best deal and then grab that.
For Ee their cheaper network is plus.net, for three it’s three or smarty and I can’t remember what Vodafone’s is or whether they actually have one
BBC Newsnight
@BBCNewsnight
· 16m
"My family stuck to the rules. Every other family stuck to the rules. The Royal Family stuck to the rules. Why couldn't Boris Johnson?"
Shadow cabinet minister Peter Kyle says a reported No 10 birthday party for the PM is "completely and utterly inexcusable"
@NadineDorries
· 4h
So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party
Isabel Oakeshott
@IsabelOakeshott
·
1h
Trying to picture how Carrie’s interior designer Lulu Lytle fits into this generous take on events?? Did she take a ten minute break from hanging the gold wallpaper upstairs to pop in for some Victoria sponge?
He seems to glory in defeat.
Not sure what the swinging signifier is.
I’m guessing it’s not OMO boxes.
She sounds a character on TV’s Toast.
“Yes I can hear you, Lulu Lytle.”
He couldn't do much worse.
Firstly, the guy that the police were searching actually had a knife on him.
Secondly, after intervening in their operation to hand out her card, she engaged in 'passive resistance', forcing her to be carried to the van.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-45439954
Edit. Actually you didn’t say prolier than thou, so I have taken it off again.
If you spoke to any conservative here they would laugh you out of court and reject any idea I was a swing voter
I'm newly single. So will take that on advisement.
That is why they are the main focus of election campaigning, rather than voters who normally vote Conservative or normally vote Labour
But in the middle of the pandemic these people are doing *indoor singing*??? I don't care about the hypocrisy which should is what you'd expect of Boris but how can you be so fucking stupid?
The Prime Minister needs to fire his wife.