To be fair to @HYUFD whilst I don't agree with using force whatsoever and I'd oppose it in the strongest terms, at least he's not ever nasty to other people or jumps down their throats. I've only ever had pleasant dealings with him which is a lot more than can be said about those who are pretending to be holier than though by attacking him now.
He's accused me of some fairly nasty things, including at least one serious crime. Certainly in his view. If that's being polite ...
Some people on here who are centre left like CHB and NP I like even though I disagree with them most of the time.
Ultra Nationalists like you and ultra libertarians like Tyndall however who are frequently rude and aggressive towards me (and even if I sometimes agree with Tyndall on a few things his tone soon puts me off again) are a different matter.
See, you're doing it right now this very minute. I'm not an ultranationalist - I'm a pro-independence centrist dad. you are the ultranationalist in the sense that you refuse to tolerate any independence movements within the UK or to allow any referenda on the matter. You are subversive of democracy and politics. I'd be sorry if Dumfriesshire decided to leave an independent Scotland but that would be the way it goes. If I were an ultranationalist I'd be sending on the police, tanks, etc. You see?
Interesting - one if the logical faults I have with independence is why wouldn't you respect the wishes of the no-voting LAs? Especially tax paying Edinburgh...
Appreciate it's a silly argument but it stumped an SNP MSP who canvassed me in 2014, he countered with legal/religious/cultural border with England, which was a bit weak tbh. I think Edinburgh has far more in common with say Bristol than the Highlands.
Scotland is indeed a single polity anyway, legally and constitutionally, much more so than many realise. The Acts of Union are the key legislation and one has to begin with that; one couldn't very well organise an independence referendum from Scotland till the country was independent. Simple as that.
Fair, and I agree, but the fundamental democracy thing isn't fully addressed IMO.
Partition by the British state in the event of a successful referendum is one thing, as it would be intervention and indeed territorial aggression; letting the Scots sort out their differences is another matter, and it would be very difficult to argue against the democracy thing in those circumstances.
179,807 new confirmed cases in France (previous record 104,611). Given that their testing rates are lower than ours, that's a hell of a lot. Let's hope their booster rollout has been enough to limit the fallout, but I fear they are in for a rough time. Some other European countries will be even worse, of course.
If your French is up to it, this long thread from a French emergency-care doctor is quite something:
For anyone amused by the bizarre Alexa plug thing, I highly recommend Dave Eggers novels (the Circle and the Every). Not really about the failure of AI, but about how 'tech' is just making us incredibly stupid. Also, for a more serious read; the age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff. Not an easy read but it is a convincing explanation of what is going wrong, and how difficult it is to fix it.
To be fair to @HYUFD whilst I don't agree with using force whatsoever and I'd oppose it in the strongest terms, at least he's not ever nasty to other people or jumps down their throats. I've only ever had pleasant dealings with him which is a lot more than can be said about those who are pretending to be holier than though by attacking him now.
He's accused me of some fairly nasty things, including at least one serious crime. Certainly in his view. If that's being polite ...
Some people on here who are centre left like CHB and NP I like even though I disagree with them most of the time.
Ultra Nationalists like you and ultra libertarians like Tyndall however who are frequently rude and aggressive towards me (and even if I sometimes agree with Tyndall on a few things his tone soon puts me off again) are a different matter.
See, you're doing it right now this very minute. I'm not an ultranationalist - I'm a pro-independence centrist dad. you are the ultranationalist in the sense that you refuse to tolerate any independence movements within the UK or to allow any referenda on the matter. You are subversive of democracy and politics. I'd be sorry if Dumfriesshire decided to leave an independent Scotland but that would be the way it goes. If I were an ultranationalist I'd be sending on the police, tanks, etc. You see?
Interesting - one if the logical faults I have with independence is why wouldn't you respect the wishes of the no-voting LAs? Especially tax paying Edinburgh...
Appreciate it's a silly argument but it stumped an SNP MSP who canvassed me in 2014, he countered with legal/religious/cultural border with England, which was a bit weak tbh. I think Edinburgh has far more in common with say Bristol than the Highlands.
Scotland is indeed a single polity anyway, legally and constitutionally, much more so than many realise. The Acts of Union are the key legislation and one has to begin with that; one couldn't very well organise an independence referendum from Scotland till the country was independent. Simple as that.
I don't know about that. Wasn't there an SNP MSP who suggested that Berwick upon Tweed should join Scotland, and even considered standing in Berwick constituency at the 2015 GE? Dumfriesshire - to go with that example - could theoretically leave Scotland to join England, even if the two remained in the UK.
Different legally. Berwick was, until relatively recently, neither Scotland nor England legally but - depending on which bits of land were involved inside and outside the walls - rather odd limbos, some at least effectively Scottish territory under English military occupation. But it wasd originally Scottish and there has been at times a local movement for reunion.
The Dumfriesshire option of moving even within the UK has already happened in a sense; Mr Blair changed the sea boundaries by fiat just before the Scottish Executive (as it was then) was reestablished in 1997, annexing a fair chunk of the North Sea [edit] to England. He didn't do that on land, though, for (I assume) legal and political reasons as well as legal (completely different legal systems). However they didn't think to deal with the sea floor in the 1706 Acts ...
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have.
The SNP it seems would whack up tariffs and protectionism however on imports from any country outside the EU.
Nationalists and authoritarian Covid restriction imposers at home and protectionist abroad, the SNP in a nutshell
Do you actually know any of the details of these trade deals? How they are better than before, for specific products, that people actually want to buy for the price we can supply them at? Last time this was up for discussion I believe you were proposing selling carrots to Australia.
We can sign a trade deal with the moon but it doesn't generate a single sale
So much for being a Peelite, Gladstone free trade Liberal. Seems like you too are very much in the protectionist, high tariff, Joseph Chamberlain mould if it comes to any trade outside the EU
Nope I am all for free trade. We had a free trade agreement inside the EU. Negotiating free trade agreements that don't actually generate sales or more than we had before is in reality net negative free trade agreements.
So how about actually answering the question I put to you.
You are obviously not all for free trade otherwise you would not be opposing any trade deals we have negotiated beyond the EU like with Australia. Deals which also offer opportunities to UK exporters.
So in reality you are more an EUphile protectionist than a genuine liberal free trader
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question.
The answer is you are an EUphile protectionist
So you can't answer the question then? I have attempted three times to get you to answer it and you refuse to answer each time. I think that therefore it's quite clear then that you can't. Rather makes a nonsense then of all your statements doesn't it? Go on do it. Prove me wrong answer it. I suspect you may have to do a lot of research and employ a lot of bluster and exaggeration.
Rather makes a nonesence of your protectionist statement if you can't answer it doesn't it?
The answer is you are an EUphile protectionist. There is no other answer as you clearly oppose any trade deals we have outside the EU and opportunities for UK exporters. Instead you would just pull up the drawbridge outside the EU orbit and slam high tariffs on our trade with the rest of the world
Lol. What a twit. That has nothing whatsoever to do with what I asked you. Just answer the question I asked. Simple factual question. You are looking very silly now you have been unable to answer after 4 requests. This has nothing to do with what you think I am.
It had everything to do with it. You opposed the UK trade deals with Australia, New Zealand etc and the opportunities provided for UK exporters because you are an EUphile protectionist. Free trade with the EU but pull up the drawbridge and ratchet up the tariffs outside it
No I didn't. I have never said so. You just made that up. I don't know enough about them to know if they are any good, but I approve of the idea of all free trade deals.
Now for the 5th time answer the question? Is there any chance that you don't know the answer? You don't do you? Admit it you have been posting about something you have no idea about?
You don't approve of them, you have made clear you oppose the main trade deals the UK has negotiated it did not have in the EU
What nonsense. We are out of the EU now so of course I approve of trade deals even though I would have preferred we hadn't left, but I'm not going to sulk in the corner. I'm just like you in fact though aren't I? You were a remainer to so how do we differ in that respect?
You are twisting yourself in knots.
Now for the 6th time answer the question? Not doing so makes you look very silly. It goes to show you have no idea about the free trade deals you are pontificating on.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Excellent idea. Will do so too. Sausages and beans and mash for us tonight.
Yum yum, what sausages have you gone for?
Something from the community foodstore - a small local farm/meat company, not sure which one (there are two or three). Don't know what kind yet - chipolatas apparently, whatever that means apart from size (Mrs C bought them).
That sounds delicious, just don't cremate them as I did the other day!
I really like the Waitrose basic ones.
Waitrose basic range being I take it the same as a premium luxury brand anywhere else?
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have.
The SNP it seems would whack up tariffs and protectionism however on imports from any country outside the EU.
Nationalists and authoritarian Covid restriction imposers at home and protectionist abroad, the SNP in a nutshell
Do you actually know any of the details of these trade deals? How they are better than before, for specific products, that people actually want to buy for the price we can supply them at? Last time this was up for discussion I believe you were proposing selling carrots to Australia.
We can sign a trade deal with the moon but it doesn't generate a single sale
So much for being a Peelite, Gladstone free trade Liberal. Seems like you too are very much in the protectionist, high tariff, Joseph Chamberlain mould if it comes to any trade outside the EU
Nope I am all for free trade. We had a free trade agreement inside the EU. Negotiating free trade agreements that don't actually generate sales or more than we had before is in reality net negative free trade agreements.
So how about actually answering the question I put to you.
You are obviously not all for free trade otherwise you would not be opposing any trade deals we have negotiated beyond the EU like with Australia. Deals which also offer opportunities to UK exporters.
So in reality you are more an EUphile protectionist than a genuine liberal free trader
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question.
The answer is you are an EUphile protectionist
So you can't answer the question then? I have attempted three times to get you to answer it and you refuse to answer each time. I think that therefore it's quite clear then that you can't. Rather makes a nonsense then of all your statements doesn't it? Go on do it. Prove me wrong answer it. I suspect you may have to do a lot of research and employ a lot of bluster and exaggeration.
Rather makes a nonesence of your protectionist statement if you can't answer it doesn't it?
The answer is you are an EUphile protectionist. There is no other answer as you clearly oppose any trade deals we have outside the EU and opportunities for UK exporters. Instead you would just pull up the drawbridge outside the EU orbit and slam high tariffs on our trade with the rest of the world
Lol. What a twit. That has nothing whatsoever to do with what I asked you. Just answer the question I asked. Simple factual question. You are looking very silly now you have been unable to answer after 4 requests. This has nothing to do with what you think I am.
It had everything to do with it. You opposed the UK trade deals with Australia, New Zealand etc and the opportunities provided for UK exporters because you are an EUphile protectionist. Free trade with the EU but pull up the drawbridge and ratchet up the tariffs outside it
No I didn't. I have never said so. You just made that up. I don't know enough about them to know if they are any good, but I approve of the idea of all free trade deals.
Now for the 5th time answer the question? Is there any chance that you don't know the answer? You don't do you? Admit it you have been posting about something you have no idea about?
You don't approve of them, you have made clear you oppose the main trade deals the UK has negotiated it did not have in the EU
What nonsense. We are out of the EU now so of course I approve of trade deals even though I would have preferred we hadn't left, but I'm not going to sulk in the corner. I'm just like you in fact though aren't I? You were a remainer to so how do we differ in that respect?
You are twisting yourself in knots.
Now for the 6th time answer the question? Not doing so makes you look very silly. It goes to show you have no idea about the free trade deals you are pontificating on.
No, I supported the UK trade deals with Australia and New Zealand as a result of the opportunities they provide UK exporters.
You and your fellow Liberal Democrats opposed them
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Excellent idea. Will do so too. Sausages and beans and mash for us tonight.
Yum yum, what sausages have you gone for?
Something from the community foodstore - a small local farm/meat company, not sure which one (there are two or three). Don't know what kind yet - chipolatas apparently, whatever that means apart from size (Mrs C bought them).
That sounds delicious, just don't cremate them as I did the other day!
I really like the Waitrose basic ones.
Waitrose basic range being I take it the same as a premium luxury brand anywhere else?
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
To be fair to @HYUFD whilst I don't agree with using force whatsoever and I'd oppose it in the strongest terms, at least he's not ever nasty to other people or jumps down their throats. I've only ever had pleasant dealings with him which is a lot more than can be said about those who are pretending to be holier than though by attacking him now.
He's accused me of some fairly nasty things, including at least one serious crime. Certainly in his view. If that's being polite ...
Some people on here who are centre left like CHB and NP I like even though I disagree with them most of the time.
Ultra Nationalists like you and ultra libertarians like Tyndall however who are frequently rude and aggressive towards me (and even if I sometimes agree with Tyndall on a few things his tone soon puts me off again) are a different matter.
See, you're doing it right now this very minute. I'm not an ultranationalist - I'm a pro-independence centrist dad. you are the ultranationalist in the sense that you refuse to tolerate any independence movements within the UK or to allow any referenda on the matter. You are subversive of democracy and politics. I'd be sorry if Dumfriesshire decided to leave an independent Scotland but that would be the way it goes. If I were an ultranationalist I'd be sending on the police, tanks, etc. You see?
Interesting - one if the logical faults I have with independence is why wouldn't you respect the wishes of the no-voting LAs? Especially tax paying Edinburgh...
Appreciate it's a silly argument but it stumped an SNP MSP who canvassed me in 2014, he countered with legal/religious/cultural border with England, which was a bit weak tbh. I think Edinburgh has far more in common with say Bristol than the Highlands.
Scotland is indeed a single polity anyway, legally and constitutionally, much more so than many realise. The Acts of Union are the key legislation and one has to begin with that; one couldn't very well organise an independence referendum from Scotland till the country was independent. Simple as that.
I don't know about that. Wasn't there an SNP MSP who suggested that Berwick upon Tweed should join Scotland, and even considered standing in Berwick constituency at the 2015 GE? Dumfriesshire - to go with that example - could theoretically leave Scotland to join England, even if the two remained in the UK.
Different legally. Berwick was, until relatively recently, neither Scotland nor England legally but - depending on which bits of land were involved inside and outside the walls - rather odd limbos, some at least effectively Scottish territory under English military occupation. But it wasd originally Scottish and there has been at times a local movement for reunion.
The Dumfriesshire option of moving even within the UK has already happened in a sense; Mr Blair changed the sea boundaries by fiat just before the Scottish Executive (as it was then) was reestablished in 1997, annexing a fair chunk of the North Sea [edit] to England. He didn't do that on land, though, for (I assume) legal and political reasons as well as legal (completely different legal systems). However they didn't think to deal with the sea floor in the 1706 Acts ...
Dumfriesshire is on the other side of the country from the North Sea!
Did we ever answer the question of whether omicron requires ventilation at all? Am concerned people are putting too much store on this metric for a strain which doesn't seem to affect the lungs.
If it doesn't affect the lungs then it's just a cold, no?
Apart from the myocarditis, strokes, renal failure etc...
But take out lung related issues from COVID admissions and it's not going to topple the NHS any time soon. It becomes just another background illness, and not much of a big deal at all to the triple vaccinated or previously infected.
Can the other symptoms occur independently of lung issues?
If so, that's a rather scary element of the virus I wasn't aware of, especially if it remains the case for Omi.
A sore throat then a sudden stroke. Eeeeek.
The anaesthetic thing was only brought to my attention pre-op. Scary stuff too, was nervous anyway.
Covid can cause a lot of Vascular issues. There is still a lot of unknown about this disease, why it goes to certain areas in the body and what it affects some people more than others.
Am I right in saying you work in a hospital? What is your view on the "incidental" admissions?
Well I am not a Doctor or Nurse and I work in Occupational Health so we help deal with the Health and Wellbeing of staff and the Covid Vaccination programme.
I have been on wards and we do a lot of initiatives at our Trust to promote staff Health and Wellbeing. Our trust was on CNN a number of times during some of the earlier waves so we got hit pretty hard with it. Lot of staff have been referred to us by their managers or they have referred themselves as the impact of working with Covid has really taken it's toll. Our job is to support them and help them back into work.
But to your question answered by perhaps a layman and just my opinion, Incidental admissions have happened throughout Covid, are we seeing more of this with Omicron? I don't know, but any Covid admission whether that's admittance because of Covid or incidental puts a strain on services.
Someone tests positive when they are in for something else means all the infection control protocols have to kick in, have to make sure procedures are put in place and carried out. You also have to prevent nosocomial infections and transmission in the hospitals as well. This is such a transmissible disease that you have to prevent it finding the way to the most vulnerable in hospital.
Covid in general in hospitals puts a lot of strain on so many different services in so many different ways.
To be fair to @HYUFD whilst I don't agree with using force whatsoever and I'd oppose it in the strongest terms, at least he's not ever nasty to other people or jumps down their throats. I've only ever had pleasant dealings with him which is a lot more than can be said about those who are pretending to be holier than though by attacking him now.
He's accused me of some fairly nasty things, including at least one serious crime. Certainly in his view. If that's being polite ...
Some people on here who are centre left like CHB and NP I like even though I disagree with them most of the time.
Ultra Nationalists like you and ultra libertarians like Tyndall however who are frequently rude and aggressive towards me (and even if I sometimes agree with Tyndall on a few things his tone soon puts me off again) are a different matter.
See, you're doing it right now this very minute. I'm not an ultranationalist - I'm a pro-independence centrist dad. you are the ultranationalist in the sense that you refuse to tolerate any independence movements within the UK or to allow any referenda on the matter. You are subversive of democracy and politics. I'd be sorry if Dumfriesshire decided to leave an independent Scotland but that would be the way it goes. If I were an ultranationalist I'd be sending on the police, tanks, etc. You see?
Interesting - one if the logical faults I have with independence is why wouldn't you respect the wishes of the no-voting LAs? Especially tax paying Edinburgh...
Appreciate it's a silly argument but it stumped an SNP MSP who canvassed me in 2014, he countered with legal/religious/cultural border with England, which was a bit weak tbh. I think Edinburgh has far more in common with say Bristol than the Highlands.
Scotland is indeed a single polity anyway, legally and constitutionally, much more so than many realise. The Acts of Union are the key legislation and one has to begin with that; one couldn't very well organise an independence referendum from Scotland till the country was independent. Simple as that.
I don't know about that. Wasn't there an SNP MSP who suggested that Berwick upon Tweed should join Scotland, and even considered standing in Berwick constituency at the 2015 GE? Dumfriesshire - to go with that example - could theoretically leave Scotland to join England, even if the two remained in the UK.
Different legally. Berwick was, until relatively recently, neither Scotland nor England legally but - depending on which bits of land were involved inside and outside the walls - rather odd limbos, some at least effectively Scottish territory under English military occupation. But it wasd originally Scottish and there has been at times a local movement for reunion.
The Dumfriesshire option of moving even within the UK has already happened in a sense; Mr Blair changed the sea boundaries by fiat just before the Scottish Executive (as it was then) was reestablished in 1997, annexing a fair chunk of the North Sea [edit] to England. He didn't do that on land, though, for (I assume) legal and political reasons as well as legal (completely different legal systems). However they didn't think to deal with the sea floor in the 1706 Acts ...
Dumfriesshire is on the other side of the country from the North Sea!
Excellent geography. I was just saying that fiddling the border has been tried, just not in So0lway or at Gretna. Apols for the confusion.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
If I got a pound for the amount of times you have said you have quit the party and will not vote for it again, then come back and done so, I would be a millionaire
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
If I got a pound for the amount of times you have said you have quit the party and will not vote for it again, then come back and done so, I would be a millionaire
And then you'd almost be able to pay for your own tank force...
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have.
The SNP it seems would whack up tariffs and protectionism however on imports from any country outside the EU.
Nationalists and authoritarian Covid restriction imposers at home and protectionist abroad, the SNP in a nutshell
Do you actually know any of the details of these trade deals? How they are better than before, for specific products, that people actually want to buy for the price we can supply them at? Last time this was up for discussion I believe you were proposing selling carrots to Australia.
We can sign a trade deal with the moon but it doesn't generate a single sale
So much for being a Peelite, Gladstone free trade Liberal. Seems like you too are very much in the protectionist, high tariff, Joseph Chamberlain mould if it comes to any trade outside the EU
Nope I am all for free trade. We had a free trade agreement inside the EU. Negotiating free trade agreements that don't actually generate sales or more than we had before is in reality net negative free trade agreements.
So how about actually answering the question I put to you.
You are obviously not all for free trade otherwise you would not be opposing any trade deals we have negotiated beyond the EU like with Australia. Deals which also offer opportunities to UK exporters.
So in reality you are more an EUphile protectionist than a genuine liberal free trader
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question.
The answer is you are an EUphile protectionist
So you can't answer the question then? I have attempted three times to get you to answer it and you refuse to answer each time. I think that therefore it's quite clear then that you can't. Rather makes a nonsense then of all your statements doesn't it? Go on do it. Prove me wrong answer it. I suspect you may have to do a lot of research and employ a lot of bluster and exaggeration.
Rather makes a nonesence of your protectionist statement if you can't answer it doesn't it?
The answer is you are an EUphile protectionist. There is no other answer as you clearly oppose any trade deals we have outside the EU and opportunities for UK exporters. Instead you would just pull up the drawbridge outside the EU orbit and slam high tariffs on our trade with the rest of the world
Lol. What a twit. That has nothing whatsoever to do with what I asked you. Just answer the question I asked. Simple factual question. You are looking very silly now you have been unable to answer after 4 requests. This has nothing to do with what you think I am.
It had everything to do with it. You opposed the UK trade deals with Australia, New Zealand etc and the opportunities provided for UK exporters because you are an EUphile protectionist. Free trade with the EU but pull up the drawbridge and ratchet up the tariffs outside it
No I didn't. I have never said so. You just made that up. I don't know enough about them to know if they are any good, but I approve of the idea of all free trade deals.
Now for the 5th time answer the question? Is there any chance that you don't know the answer? You don't do you? Admit it you have been posting about something you have no idea about?
You don't approve of them, you have made clear you oppose the main trade deals the UK has negotiated it did not have in the EU
What nonsense. We are out of the EU now so of course I approve of trade deals even though I would have preferred we hadn't left, but I'm not going to sulk in the corner. I'm just like you in fact though aren't I? You were a remainer to so how do we differ in that respect?
You are twisting yourself in knots.
Now for the 6th time answer the question? Not doing so makes you look very silly. It goes to show you have no idea about the free trade deals you are pontificating on.
No, I supported the UK trade deals with Australia and New Zealand as a result of the opportunities they provide UK exporters.
You and your fellow Liberal Democrats opposed them
No I don't. I just told you that.
Now for the 7th time answer the question? You clearly can't hence you have avoided it 6 times.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
We heard this from someone else on here yesterday.
I'm clear what you don't want but what DO you want? A freeze on all immigration - the forced repatriation of EU citizens within the UK?
As a Londoner, I don't pretend to understand "the red wall" though my Borough (Newham) is solid Labour. For what kind of political/financial settlement are you looking?
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Excellent idea. Will do so too. Sausages and beans and mash for us tonight.
Yum yum, what sausages have you gone for?
Something from the community foodstore - a small local farm/meat company, not sure which one (there are two or three). Don't know what kind yet - chipolatas apparently, whatever that means apart from size (Mrs C bought them).
That sounds delicious, just don't cremate them as I did the other day!
I really like the Waitrose basic ones.
Waitrose basic range being I take it the same as a premium luxury brand anywhere else?
And there go my socialist credentials, I am entering the bourgeoisie!
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
If I got a pound for the amount of times you have said you have quit the party and will not vote for it again, then come back and done so, I would be a millionaire
And then you'd almost be able to pay for your own tank force...
Getting a Covenanter to run to the end of the road is an expensive proposition...
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
What do the Tories offer other than more broken levelling up promises?
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
If I got a pound for the amount of times you have said you have quit the party and will not vote for it again, then come back and done so, I would be a millionaire
179,807 new confirmed cases in France (previous record 104,611). Given that their testing rates are lower than ours, that's a hell of a lot. Let's hope their booster rollout has been enough to limit the fallout, but I fear they are in for a rough time. Some other European countries will be even worse, of course.
If your French is up to it, this long thread from a French emergency-care doctor is quite something:
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declare UDI or hold an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017
Thanks. It is nice to have my impressions reinforced. I am content with my fascist label for you. I think almost uniquely on PB as well.
I vote not guilty. On Umberto Eco's "definition" of fascism, I score HYUFD as 4/14, which is far below the level I would expect for the charge to stick
"The Cult of Tradition" - no. HYUFD is obsessed with aspects of the past, but has not revealed a reflexive rejection of new learning. "The Rejection of modernism" - probably not. HYUFD has been much less vocal about post-Enlightenment philosophy than many others, and sits on the mildly conservative part of that spectrum "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake" - no. HYUFD is often vocally in favour of inaction. "Disagreement Is Treason" - yes, this typifies a lot of HYUFD's madder output "Fear of Difference" - no "Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class" - sometimes, but not unusually so "Obsession with a Plot" - occasionally. HYUFD sees treason much more readily than others. Enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." - no "Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" - partially. HYUFD often plugs into tropes about internal and external treason. "Contempt for the Weak" - no, I think HYUFD tends to be fairly ignorant and uncaring about the weak, but doesn't go out of his way to look down on them. "Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero" - falls short. Militarist fantasies are not sufficient for this charge to stick. "Machismo" - partial. HYUFD strikes me as clearly sexist, but I haven't seen any homophobia. "Selective Populism" - definitely, but there's a lot of it about "Newspeak" - not really. The frequent abuse of statistics and deliberate logical evasions are not the same as deliberately impoverishing the language to prevent rational discourse.
Whilst I understand and appreciate the response, I would suggest the fact that you had to qualify your 'noes' for so many of those means he is far closer to the line than you might give him credit for.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
We heard this from someone else on here yesterday.
I'm clear what you don't want but what DO you want? A freeze on all immigration - the forced repatriation of EU citizens within the UK?
As a Londoner, I don't pretend to understand "the red wall" though my Borough (Newham) is solid Labour. For what kind of political/financial settlement are you looking?
What I was alluding to yesterday was around why we need to constantly put London against the rest of the country? There is immense poverty in parts of London, people there need/want levelling up, just as the North needs it too.
I just don't like the idea a working class person in London isn't actually a working class person, that they're somehow actually part of the metropolitan elite and worthy of ridicule.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
If I got a pound for the amount of times you have said you have quit the party and will not vote for it again, then come back and done so, I would be a millionaire
If I got a pound for every time you remind us that the Scottish referendum in 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote, I would be a multi-millionaire!
179,807 new confirmed cases in France (previous record 104,611). Given that their testing rates are lower than ours, that's a hell of a lot. Let's hope their booster rollout has been enough to limit the fallout, but I fear they are in for a rough time. Some other European countries will be even worse, of course.
If your French is up to it, this long thread from a French emergency-care doctor is quite something:
Didn't read it all, but powerful stuff. Ends with a "j'accuse" moment
That is a shockingly high number.
Anyone in France on here at the moment? Interesting they decided to ban Brits..
To be fair, it's only turned out to have the same effect as when we raised travel barriers against Southern Africa. Useless something-must-be-done-ism.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Thanks, of course your first paragraph certainly does not apply to BigG at all, no connection whatsoever....
It cannot apply to me as I have already quit the party and demanded from my mp that he seeks the replacement of Boris
If I got a pound for the amount of times you have said you have quit the party and will not vote for it again, then come back and done so, I would be a millionaire
And then you'd almost be able to pay for your own tank force...
Getting a Covenanter to run to the end of the road is an expensive proposition...
Of course full Brexit properly gets done this coming 1 January with the removal of most transitional easements on imports into the country. It’ll be interesting to see what it does to inflation.
My expectation is that the world won’t end and, to paraphrase a famous young Brexit fan, nobody will starve to death, but look out for a fair bit of grumbling from businesses and some cost rises flowing from the added bureaucracy. It’s all very much not with a bang but a whimper - the essence of our particular version of Brexit.
179,807 new confirmed cases in France (previous record 104,611). Given that their testing rates are lower than ours, that's a hell of a lot. Let's hope their booster rollout has been enough to limit the fallout, but I fear they are in for a rough time. Some other European countries will be even worse, of course.
If your French is up to it, this long thread from a French emergency-care doctor is quite something:
Didn't read it all, but powerful stuff. Ends with a "j'accuse" moment
That is a shockingly high number.
Anyone in France on here at the moment? Interesting they decided to ban Brits..
Worth noting that the figure is probably inflated with some delayed tests because of bank holidays.
Hospital admissions now beginning to rise as well, thought to be as a result of Omicrom spreading into the over-40s (as in the UK, the initial surge in infections was more amongst youngsters).
179,807 new confirmed cases in France (previous record 104,611). Given that their testing rates are lower than ours, that's a hell of a lot. Let's hope their booster rollout has been enough to limit the fallout, but I fear they are in for a rough time. Some other European countries will be even worse, of course.
If your French is up to it, this long thread from a French emergency-care doctor is quite something:
Didn't read it all, but powerful stuff. Ends with a "j'accuse" moment
That is a shockingly high number.
Anyone in France on here at the moment? Interesting they decided to ban Brits..
It's a election year in France. Hating on the Roast Beefs is in season.
The Macroon has lost the plot - first he tried to be more nationalist than the National Ramblers (deadname The Petain Memorial Tribute Band), now he is looking at sharing the second round with a non-fascist.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Yes, I have more respect for the consistent tribalism of HYUFD TBH than the behaviour of a lot of other PB commentators. I find his loyalty to Johnson/the Tories quite admirable in a funny way TBH. He is taking the rough with the smooth. I find a lot of so called centre/centre right commentators on Politicalbetting rather hypocritical and irritating TBH.
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declare UDI or hold an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017
Thanks. It is nice to have my impressions reinforced. I am content with my fascist label for you. I think almost uniquely on PB as well.
I vote not guilty. On Umberto Eco's "definition" of fascism, I score HYUFD as 4/14, which is far below the level I would expect for the charge to stick
"The Cult of Tradition" - no. HYUFD is obsessed with aspects of the past, but has not revealed a reflexive rejection of new learning. "The Rejection of modernism" - probably not. HYUFD has been much less vocal about post-Enlightenment philosophy than many others, and sits on the mildly conservative part of that spectrum "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake" - no. HYUFD is often vocally in favour of inaction. "Disagreement Is Treason" - yes, this typifies a lot of HYUFD's madder output "Fear of Difference" - no "Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class" - sometimes, but not unusually so "Obsession with a Plot" - occasionally. HYUFD sees treason much more readily than others. Enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." - no "Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" - partially. HYUFD often plugs into tropes about internal and external treason. "Contempt for the Weak" - no, I think HYUFD tends to be fairly ignorant and uncaring about the weak, but doesn't go out of his way to look down on them. "Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero" - falls short. Militarist fantasies are not sufficient for this charge to stick. "Machismo" - partial. HYUFD strikes me as clearly sexist, but I haven't seen any homophobia. "Selective Populism" - definitely, but there's a lot of it about "Newspeak" - not really. The frequent abuse of statistics and deliberate logical evasions are not the same as deliberately impoverishing the language to prevent rational discourse.
Those are attributes of a fascist system and its leaders, not of an individual fascist. No fascist movement would ever have got off the ground if the rank and file adherents had to be capable of entertaining a minimum of 14 abstract beliefs.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
What do the Tories offer other than more broken levelling up promises?
What a stupid counterpoint. Typical of the labour mentality that the red wall needs to return home. Labour need to offer something. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. Labour need to enthuse people to vote for them and, as @RochdalePioneers said a few threads back, people may just choose not to bother.
179,807 new confirmed cases in France (previous record 104,611). Given that their testing rates are lower than ours, that's a hell of a lot. Let's hope their booster rollout has been enough to limit the fallout, but I fear they are in for a rough time. Some other European countries will be even worse, of course.
If your French is up to it, this long thread from a French emergency-care doctor is quite something:
Didn't read it all, but powerful stuff. Ends with a "j'accuse" moment
That is a shockingly high number.
Anyone in France on here at the moment? Interesting they decided to ban Brits..
Worth noting that the figure is probably inflated with some delayed tests because of bank holidays.
Hospital admissions now beginning to rise as well, thought to be as a result of Omicrom spreading into the over-40s (as in the UK, the initial surge in infections was more amongst youngsters).
Meanwhile like clockwork another near 1,000 daily deaths recorded in Russia. They’ve now lost over 300k people officially and will soon overtake the UK for deaths per million. The excess deaths number is much higher. This is likely to be predominantly Delta still. If ever there were a country - under-vaccinated as it is - that needs to welcome Omicron as a potential saviour it’s Russia.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Yes, I have more respect for the consistent tribalism of HYUFD TBH than the behaviour of a lot of other PB commentators. I find his loyalty to Johnson/the Tories quite admirable in a funny way TBH. He is taking the rough with the smooth. I find a lot of so called centre/centre right commentators on Politicalbetting rather hypocritical and irritating TBH.
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
Hi Gary, hope you are keeping well.
HYUFD is one of the few people here to not have underestimated Starmer from the day he was elected. That has to mean something.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
But their point is right, what do labour offer us in the red wall. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. I have voted labour in general elections all my life but, even though I like my MP, I have no inclination to vote for a Labour Party I think has little more than disdain for communities like mine.
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal. You can claim all you want new labour levelled us up. The reality is that is certainly not felt. Look at economic growth and house price growth in the south east and London and compare it to the north east in the period of new labour.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
But their point is right, what do labour offer us in the red wall. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. I have voted labour in general elections all my life but, even though I like my MP, I have no inclination to vote for a Labour Party I think has little more than disdain for communities like mine.
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal.
And I asked, what would you like Labour/whoever to do now? They don't like FOM but FOM is over now and Labour don't support it anymore. You won that argument.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
I was going to say it must be boom time for Marilyn’s and the Crystal Rooms, but I see Hereford’s nightclubs have moved on (or at least renamed themselves) since the 1990s.
WRT to the 'red wall'; there seems to have been some kind of subtle realisation amongst the conservative party that its base will always be in the affluent south, and the votes of the red wall are just on loan to provide it with its parliamentary majority. This came around the time of the Chesham and Amersham by election.
For a long time in the run up to this people like Matt Godwin were saying that the tories could have a generation in power and permanently destroy the labour party by embracing the reallignment and 'leaning in' to the red wall. But there was a change of heart which can only really be explained by the idea that the interests of voters in the red wall are fundamentally at odds with the Conservative Party and the people that comprise it.
So, by sidelining the red wall and its levelling up agenda, as it appears to have done, the conservative party may have effectively saved the labour party, enabling it to build an alternative coalition between parts of the red wall and urban constituencies across the south. With little indication of change in Scotland, it seems unlikely that anyone will be able to build up a parliamentary majority again in the foreseeable future.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
But their point is right, what do labour offer us in the red wall. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. I have voted labour in general elections all my life but, even though I like my MP, I have no inclination to vote for a Labour Party I think has little more than disdain for communities like mine.
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal.
And I asked, what would you like Labour/whoever to do now? They don't like FOM but FOM is over now and Labour don't support it anymore. You won that argument.
For me something akin to what @NickPalmer siggested a few threads back.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
But their point is right, what do labour offer us in the red wall. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. I have voted labour in general elections all my life but, even though I like my MP, I have no inclination to vote for a Labour Party I think has little more than disdain for communities like mine.
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal.
And I asked, what would you like Labour/whoever to do now? They don't like FOM but FOM is over now and Labour don't support it anymore. You won that argument.
For me something akin to what @NickPalmer siggested a few threads back.
I missed that - but I will have a look now. Thanks.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Yes, I have more respect for the consistent tribalism of HYUFD TBH than the behaviour of a lot of other PB commentators. I find his loyalty to Johnson/the Tories quite admirable in a funny way TBH. He is taking the rough with the smooth. I find a lot of so called centre/centre right commentators on Politicalbetting rather hypocritical and irritating TBH.
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
Hi Gary, hope you are keeping well.
HYUFD is one of the few people here to not have underestimated Starmer from the day he was elected. That has to mean something.
Underestimated Starmer? Are you selling some sort of story that Boris has fallen into SKS's cunning trap? All Starmer has done is maintain a constant position at 87 in the charts, while Johnson has plummeted from No 1 to no 100. He had one good PMQ and that's it.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
But their point is right, what do labour offer us in the red wall. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. I have voted labour in general elections all my life but, even though I like my MP, I have no inclination to vote for a Labour Party I think has little more than disdain for communities like mine.
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal.
And I asked, what would you like Labour/whoever to do now? They don't like FOM but FOM is over now and Labour don't support it anymore. You won that argument.
I also want labour to give a fuck about our communities. Care about what we want and care about helping develop our economies. It would be great if young people in the north east felt they had opportunities and stayed rather than moving south as there is little here for them.
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Yes, I have more respect for the consistent tribalism of HYUFD TBH than the behaviour of a lot of other PB commentators. I find his loyalty to Johnson/the Tories quite admirable in a funny way TBH. He is taking the rough with the smooth. I find a lot of so called centre/centre right commentators on Politicalbetting rather hypocritical and irritating TBH.
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
Hi Gary, hope you are keeping well.
HYUFD is one of the few people here to not have underestimated Starmer from the day he was elected. That has to mean something.
Underestimated Starmer? Are you selling some sort of story that Boris has fallen into SKS's cunning trap? All Starmer has done is maintain a constant position at 87 in the charts, while Johnson has plummeted from No 1 to no 100. He had one good PMQ and that's it.
I think Starmer is the perfect leader to counter Boris Johnson if he becomes unpopular, which is what I said when Starmer was elected. I don't know if that was @HYUFD's analysis too.
If Johnson goes, all bets are off. But I am not sure Johnson will go. Major never did
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
Hello, I hope you are well.
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
But their point is right, what do labour offer us in the red wall. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. I have voted labour in general elections all my life but, even though I like my MP, I have no inclination to vote for a Labour Party I think has little more than disdain for communities like mine.
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal.
And I asked, what would you like Labour/whoever to do now? They don't like FOM but FOM is over now and Labour don't support it anymore. You won that argument.
For me something akin to what @NickPalmer siggested a few threads back.
I missed that - but I will have a look now. Thanks.
It’s worth looking up as it is quite radical and I appreciated nick taking the time to reply with a thoughtful post.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
Chester is in big trouble!
And Bristol.
There is a gag somewhere about a medieval law stating that candidates for peerages had to be over 4'6" tall "to prevent the accidental ennoblement of Welshmen." Perhaps the Bristol nightclubs will update their admission criteria accordingly.
That's the second player in 2 days who have been excluded from the tournament due to a positive covid test.
We're in danger of the tournament falling apart now. Despite the alternate suggestion of "make them play and spread the virus to as many people as possible"
What's wrong with Alexa getting children to electrocute themselves? Death is a part of life. It's Darwinism. We shouldn't sacrifice our freedoms just to save the lives of a few people that would have walked in front of a bus or fell down an open drain anyway.
I think you are Lev Kamanev and I claim my £10.
Fixed that for you
This was a reference to a Daily Express competition of the 60s, seeking out a lookylikey carrying a copy of the Daily Expross in a particular inland resort btw, nothing sinister.
I know, I got the reference
Was it the express? thought it was the Mirror.
Leaving aside the Soviet part of the joke to concentrate on the newspaper competition. Lots of papers did it and it dates back to before the war, at least. It was the Mcguffin in Brighton Rock, for instance. The usual style on pb is "you are XXX AICMFP (and I claim my five pounds).
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
I assume that wages rose a tad. Poverty fell, schools and hospitals rebuilt etc etc. I know it wasn't enough but "nothing" just demonstrates that you are of the Don't Look Up mentality ignoring what is in front of you.
WRT to the 'red wall'; there seems to have been some kind of subtle realisation amongst the conservative party that its base will always be in the affluent south, and the votes of the red wall are just on loan to provide it with its parliamentary majority. This came around the time of the Chesham and Amersham by election.
For a long time in the run up to this people like Matt Godwin were saying that the tories could have a generation in power and permanently destroy the labour party by embracing the reallignment and 'leaning in' to the red wall. But there was a change of heart which can only really be explained by the idea that the interests of voters in the red wall are fundamentally at odds with the Conservative Party and the people that comprise it.
So, by sidelining the red wall and its levelling up agenda, as it appears to have done, the conservative party may have effectively saved the labour party, enabling it to build an alternative coalition between parts of the red wall and urban constituencies across the south. With little indication of change in Scotland, it seems unlikely that anyone will be able to build up a parliamentary majority again in the foreseeable future.
If true this shows the Tories are not a one nation party.
A gap for labour to fill.
The moment the Tories turned their back on levelling up was the moment the red wall, which had been their staunchest supporters, turn against them
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Yes, I have more respect for the consistent tribalism of HYUFD TBH than the behaviour of a lot of other PB commentators. I find his loyalty to Johnson/the Tories quite admirable in a funny way TBH. He is taking the rough with the smooth. I find a lot of so called centre/centre right commentators on Politicalbetting rather hypocritical and irritating TBH.
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
Hi Gary, hope you are keeping well.
HYUFD is one of the few people here to not have underestimated Starmer from the day he was elected. That has to mean something.
Underestimated Starmer? Are you selling some sort of story that Boris has fallen into SKS's cunning trap? All Starmer has done is maintain a constant position at 87 in the charts, while Johnson has plummeted from No 1 to no 100. He had one good PMQ and that's it.
I think Starmer is the perfect leader to counter Boris Johnson if he becomes unpopular, which is what I said when Starmer was elected. I don't know if that was @HYUFD's analysis too.
If Johnson goes, all bets are off. But I am not sure Johnson will go. Major never did
Of course he won't go. Have you ever been PM of a G7 country? Me neither, but I bet it's the most amazing fun, certainly compared to the after dinner speech treadmill and increased exposure to 'er indoors. But if Boris becomes unpopular (if!) you don't need to be the perfect leader anyway. Even the K**ts (well known popular musical beat combo) can see what the line to take is.
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declared UDI or held an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017.
I may agree with you on a few things like grammar schools but otherwise in my view you are an extreme libertarian whose opinion of me does not bother me at all
Just as a matter of interest, would it have been right for the British government to use "the full force of the state" to deter independence movements (via ample use of body bags) in the former Empire?
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
Chester is in big trouble!
And Bristol.
It's payback for when hoardes of shoppers from the South East of England turned up at McArthur Glen, Bridgend when Johnson locked England down after our Autumn 2020 firebreak had finished.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
I assume that wages rose a tad. Poverty fell, schools and hospitals rebuilt etc etc. I know it wasn't enough but "nothing" just demonstrates that you are of the Don't Look Up mentality ignoring what is in front of you.
Wages may have rose a tad and relative poverty may have fallen but in comparison to the south and London it was negligible. The gap accelerated. Hospitals and schools rebuilt. All PFI which we will be paying for years. It’s merely robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
What do the Tories offer other than more broken levelling up promises?
What a stupid counterpoint. Typical of the labour mentality that the red wall needs to return home. Labour need to offer something. Not being the Tories isn’t enough. Labour need to enthuse people to vote for them and, as @RochdalePioneers said a few threads back, people may just choose not to bother.
Part of Labour's challenge is getting people to recognise what positive change looks like. Many many people like @xxxxx5 say "Labour did nothing for me" despite a lot being done. Ed Milliband trashing the party's reputation really didn't help.
By the next election the need for delivery will be critical. Generations of Labour MPs / councils did nothing. Brexit and Boris have done nothing. People need something - and the risk is that they listen to an even more extreme voice offering more extreme solutions. Or if that isn't available, simply don't vote at all.
WRT to the 'red wall'; there seems to have been some kind of subtle realisation amongst the conservative party that its base will always be in the affluent south, and the votes of the red wall are just on loan to provide it with its parliamentary majority. This came around the time of the Chesham and Amersham by election.
For a long time in the run up to this people like Matt Godwin were saying that the tories could have a generation in power and permanently destroy the labour party by embracing the reallignment and 'leaning in' to the red wall. But there was a change of heart which can only really be explained by the idea that the interests of voters in the red wall are fundamentally at odds with the Conservative Party and the people that comprise it.
So, by sidelining the red wall and its levelling up agenda, as it appears to have done, the conservative party may have effectively saved the labour party, enabling it to build an alternative coalition between parts of the red wall and urban constituencies across the south. With little indication of change in Scotland, it seems unlikely that anyone will be able to build up a parliamentary majority again in the foreseeable future.
If true this shows the Tories are not a one nation party.
A gap for labour to fill.
The moment the Tories turned their back on levelling up was the moment the red wall, which had been their staunchest supporters, turn against them
What? How do you get "staunchest supporters" from "never elected a tory in their lives, their parents' or grandparents' or ggps' lives," and how do you tie the turn to levelling up rather than lockdown parties or wallpaper or Paterson?
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
I assume that wages rose a tad. Poverty fell, schools and hospitals rebuilt etc etc. I know it wasn't enough but "nothing" just demonstrates that you are of the Don't Look Up mentality ignoring what is in front of you.
Wages may have rose a tad and relative poverty may have fallen but in comparison to the south and London it was negligible. The gap accelerated. Hospitals and schools rebuilt. All PFI which we will be paying for years. It’s merely robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Wages grew a lot - the days of £2.20 an hour are the past. Absolute grinding poverty fell away. And the hospitals and schools that were literally crumbling away needed replacing - its not as if borrowing to do so was on the agenda. So what was the alternative?
I do agree that the economy is heavily imbalanced to the SE. The problem is that nobody is offering a solution. The Tories are demonstrating that "levelling up" doesn't really extend beyond window dressing and a slogan. Brexit has made it worse not better for manufacturing. So what else is there?
The sad reality is that in England there seems to be no idea - none at all - about how to fix the structural problems. As an advocate for federalism and regionalism I can see how it could be done, but neither option for government is interested so the decline will continue.
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declared UDI or held an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017.
I may agree with you on a few things like grammar schools but otherwise in my view you are an extreme libertarian whose opinion of me does not bother me at all
Just as a matter of interest, would it have been was it right for the British government to use "the full force of the state" to deter independence movements (via ample use of body bags) in the former Empire?
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
FTFY.
Thinking particularly of the Amritsar Massacre in light of recent events...
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
But park runs are cancelled in Wales....that will do the trick.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declared UDI or held an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017.
I may agree with you on a few things like grammar schools but otherwise in my view you are an extreme libertarian whose opinion of me does not bother me at all
Just as a matter of interest, would it have been right for the British government to use "the full force of the state" to deter independence movements (via ample use of body bags) in the former Empire?
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
We did in the American colonies, in Ireland in the Irish War of Independence and arguably in South Africa in the Boer Wars and India in the Indian mutiny.
France did in Algeria and Vietnam, Spain did in many of their Latin American colonies and the Philippines. Mexico did with Texas. Ethiopia did with Eritrea. Russia did in Chechyna. Serbia did in the former Yugoslavia, China may well do with Taiwan.
However Scotland is not a colony but part of the United Kingdom which elects its own MPs and since the 1707 Act of Union has been subject to the sovereignty of Westminster and withing the Kingdom of the UK, much as Catalonia is part of Kingdom of Spain.
Scots also voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation referendum whose result must be respected
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
Its hardly likely that there will be a big Tory surge in Wales. Not whilst Peppa is PM and farming is being ravaged by his Brexit deal.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
But park runs are cancelled in Wales....that will do the trick.
You mean, after everything we've learned about the way this virus does and does not transmit, and the importance of exercise to both physical and mental health during this whole tragedy, they've torpedoed parkrun - again?
It's at least gratifying to know that the Welsh administration is as full of dense fuckwits as the central government, I suppose.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
Its hardly likely that there will be a big Tory surge in Wales. Not whilst Peppa is PM and farming is being ravaged by his Brexit deal.
I do not expect that to happen but there will be a lot of anger at the authoritarian attitude of Drakeford
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
I assume that wages rose a tad. Poverty fell, schools and hospitals rebuilt etc etc. I know it wasn't enough but "nothing" just demonstrates that you are of the Don't Look Up mentality ignoring what is in front of you.
Wages may have rose a tad and relative poverty may have fallen but in comparison to the south and London it was negligible. The gap accelerated. Hospitals and schools rebuilt. All PFI which we will be paying for years. It’s merely robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I'm curious as to why you, and others, point to the failure of the 1997-2010 government's failure to 'level up' the north, but have so little to say on the 2010-2019 government. It strikes me that the Blair government did many things, though not enough, to help people in the north (and in less affluent areas generally) - the minimum wage, investment in education and the NHS, some investment in town centres, and so on. But surely what damaged the north more was the austerity programme since 2010, combined with the hollowing out of both the finances and the powers of local councils - especially Labour ones? Meanwhile, the outsourcing of manufacturing industry continued apace - a trend which started about 40 years ago. What did Cameron and Osborne do for the north? Apart from some rhetoric about northern powerhouses, I'm struggling to think of much.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
But park runs are cancelled in Wales....that will do the trick.
You mean, after everything we've learned about the way this virus does and does not transmit, and the importance of exercise to both physical and mental health during this whole tragedy, they've torpedoed parkrun - again?
It's at least gratifying to know that the Welsh administration is as full of dense fuckwits as the central government, I suppose.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
Its hardly likely that there will be a big Tory surge in Wales. Not whilst Peppa is PM and farming is being ravaged by his Brexit deal.
Indeed. In polities where there is a weak and divided opposition, even the most incompetent government can endure and, indeed, thrive for decades.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
He could hide in Llandudno - nobody would ever find him.
Checks notes, Labour now polling the highest since 2005, oh well
You have no idea how annoyed the businesses in North Wales are as they see their trade disappear into England and going to the office made a criminal offence
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
I assume that wages rose a tad. Poverty fell, schools and hospitals rebuilt etc etc. I know it wasn't enough but "nothing" just demonstrates that you are of the Don't Look Up mentality ignoring what is in front of you.
Wages may have rose a tad and relative poverty may have fallen but in comparison to the south and London it was negligible. The gap accelerated. Hospitals and schools rebuilt. All PFI which we will be paying for years. It’s merely robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I'm curious as to why you, and others, point to the failure of the 1997-2010 government's failure to 'level up' the north, but have so little to say on the 2010-2019 government. It strikes me that the Blair government did many things, though not enough, to help people in the north - the minimum wage, investment in education and the NHS, some investment in town centres, and so on. But surely what damaged the north more was the austerity programme since 2010, combined with the hollowing out of both the finances and the powers of local councils - especially Labour ones. Meanwhile, the outsourcing of manufacturing industry continued apace - a trend which started about 40 years ago. What did Cameron and Osborne do for the north? Apart from some rhetoric about northern powerhouses, I'm struggling to think of much.
The discussion was about labour and what the did for the north or didn’t and how they win back the red wall. I’m no fan of the Tories 2010-2019 either. However one thing they (Osborne) did recognise was the need to retain a manufacturing base and they did try to devolve power to local mayors. Investment in health and education was largely PFI, enriching bankers and middle men and saddling us with the debt for a generation. Jobs in manufacturing rapidly declined, well paid jobs, but the minimum wage came in so anyone losing a well paid manufacturing job could get a min wage job in a call centre. Result.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
The park run thing. I'm still pissed off we didn't have a big national effort to get more people below BMI 25, given how important it is as a comorbidity.
Closing the gyms I understand. But outdoor sport is just counter-productive.
WRT to the 'red wall'; there seems to have been some kind of subtle realisation amongst the conservative party that its base will always be in the affluent south, and the votes of the red wall are just on loan to provide it with its parliamentary majority. This came around the time of the Chesham and Amersham by election.
For a long time in the run up to this people like Matt Godwin were saying that the tories could have a generation in power and permanently destroy the labour party by embracing the reallignment and 'leaning in' to the red wall. But there was a change of heart which can only really be explained by the idea that the interests of voters in the red wall are fundamentally at odds with the Conservative Party and the people that comprise it.
So, by sidelining the red wall and its levelling up agenda, as it appears to have done, the conservative party may have effectively saved the labour party, enabling it to build an alternative coalition between parts of the red wall and urban constituencies across the south. With little indication of change in Scotland, it seems unlikely that anyone will be able to build up a parliamentary majority again in the foreseeable future.
If true this shows the Tories are not a one nation party.
A gap for labour to fill.
The moment the Tories turned their back on levelling up was the moment the red wall, which had been their staunchest supporters, turn against them
They showed they weren't a "one nation" party when they decided it was one rule for us, one rule for them. That reflected itself most obviously in the Cummings Barnard Castle trip, but there were other minor breaches (e.g. Jenrick) during that time, along with the more recent Christmas party debacle.
But that is the theme running through this entire government, and it's not just about lockdown. It's the theme that "we are the ruling class and we can get away with whatever because you plebs gave us a stonking majority, now we get to do what we like". It was the theme behind proroguation, remember that? Which people wanted to forgive as it helped "get brexit done"... But also the theme behind trying to save Owen Paterson, saving Jenrick after granting that $1b planning permission to a Tory donor, the countless other donors who seem to have done well out of covid related contracts, and so on, and so forth.
The Tories are unpopular now because they are seen to be governing entirely in their own interests, at all times. As if they have no other real ideology other than power for power's sake.
Say what you like about Fatcha, at least you know she believed in something. What does Boris, the man who wrote two columns the night before declaring for Brexit, believe in?
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
You cannot have read my posts over the period since Paterson's debacle to even suggest I want Boris to come good
However, HMG decision for England is correct and I support it completely
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declared UDI or held an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017.
I may agree with you on a few things like grammar schools but otherwise in my view you are an extreme libertarian whose opinion of me does not bother me at all
Just as a matter of interest, would it have been right for the British government to use "the full force of the state" to deter independence movements (via ample use of body bags) in the former Empire?
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
We did in the American colonies, in Ireland in the Irish War of Independence and arguably in South Africa in the Boer Wars and India in the Indian mutiny.
France did in Algeria and Vietnam, Spain did in many of their Latin American colonies and the Philippines. Mexico did with Texas. Ethiopia did with Eritrea. Russia did in Chechyna. Serbia did in the former Yugoslavia, China may well do with Taiwan.
However Scotland is not a colony but part of the United Kingdom which elects its own MPs and since the 1707 Act of Union has been subject to the sovereignty of Westminster and withing the Kingdom of the UK, much as Catalonia is part of Kingdom of Spain.
Scots also voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation referendum whose result must be respected
Good grief! Do you not see that your list of examples is also a list of abject failures laced with a few genocides and other war crimes?
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
It is amazing though that Drakeford keeps defying gravity in the way he does.
Stripped of the verbiage, he is a fifth rate not very successful academic who owes his entire advancement to networking with a bunch of people of his own sort, whose views are stuck somewhere in 1885 and whose entire policy offering has been a disaster. He's a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon or Laura Pidcock. Heck, he's nearly as useless as Johnson and doesn't even have a sense of humour. I might even compare him to Edward Leigh.
And yet he remains incredibly popular.
Just goes to show how parochial my fellow Welsh are. They'd rather have somebody like them rather than somebody vaguely capable.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
It is amazing though that Drakeford keeps defying gravity in the way he does.
Stripped of the verbiage, he is a fifth rate not very successful academic who owes his entire advancement to networking with a bunch of people of his own sort, whose views are stuck somewhere in 1885 and whose entire policy offering has been a disaster. He's a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon or Laura Pidcock. Heck, he's nearly as useless as Johnson and doesn't even have a sense of humour.
And yet he remains incredibly popular.
Just goes to show how parochial my fellow Welsh are. They'd rather have somebody like them rather than somebody vaguely capable.
Tbf, your compatriots only have to look over to Westminster to see how much worse things could be.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
But park runs are cancelled in Wales....that will do the trick.
You mean, after everything we've learned about the way this virus does and does not transmit, and the importance of exercise to both physical and mental health during this whole tragedy, they've torpedoed parkrun - again?
It's at least gratifying to know that the Welsh administration is as full of dense fuckwits as the central government, I suppose.
The RNLI had to cancel their boxing day dip
Well, to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment, it's possible that the Welsh Government was so terrified of Omicron that they really wanted to have either a total lockdown, or a near-total lockdown with the schools allowed to stay open. Lacking, however, the resources for mass business closures, they simply banned some stuff it wouldn't cost them anything to ban, to disguise their fundamental weakness.
I believe that the structure of devolution is flawed and that the Welsh Government really ought to have enough of a devolved tax base and borrowing powers to be able to act independently in a situation such as this, without recourse to the UK Treasury, if it feels that strongly about an issue within its competence. If the consequence of that were to be, for arguments' sake, a 3p hike in all income tax bands and a substantial sum set aside each year to cover debt servicing costs - and the Welsh electorate were then happy to return the Government proposing such a thing - then fine.
Devolution really is a dog's breakfast - that is, you can argue all you like about the principle of the thing, but the way it's been implemented in practice is grossly incompetent. The New Labour Government and it's Tory successors all have much to answer for in this regard.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
It is amazing though that Drakeford keeps defying gravity in the way he does.
Stripped of the verbiage, he is a fifth rate not very successful academic who owes his entire advancement to networking with a bunch of people of his own sort, whose views are stuck somewhere in 1885 and whose entire policy offering has been a disaster. He's a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon or Laura Pidcock. Heck, he's nearly as useless as Johnson and doesn't even have a sense of humour.
And yet he remains incredibly popular.
Just goes to show how parochial my fellow Welsh are. They'd rather have somebody like them rather than somebody vaguely capable.
Tbf, your compatriots only have to look over to Westminster to see how much worse things could be.
I would say Drakeford's government is actually somewhat worse than Johnson's.
And I don't say that out of starry eyed admiration for Johnson.
There are at least some vaguely sane people in the cabinet. I wouldn't go bail for the Welsh Executive.
BTW, The Royal Institution Christmas Lectures has just started on BBC Four. Professor Jonathan Can-Tam is giving a lecture on viruses and the immune system.
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declared UDI or held an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017.
I may agree with you on a few things like grammar schools but otherwise in my view you are an extreme libertarian whose opinion of me does not bother me at all
Just as a matter of interest, would it have been right for the British government to use "the full force of the state" to deter independence movements (via ample use of body bags) in the former Empire?
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
We did in the American colonies, in Ireland in the Irish War of Independence and arguably in South Africa in the Boer Wars and India in the Indian mutiny.
France did in Algeria and Vietnam, Spain did in many of their Latin American colonies and the Philippines. Mexico did with Texas. Ethiopia did with Eritrea. Russia did in Chechyna. Serbia did in the former Yugoslavia, China may well do with Taiwan.
However Scotland is not a colony but part of the United Kingdom which elects its own MPs and since the 1707 Act of Union has been subject to the sovereignty of Westminster and withing the Kingdom of the UK, much as Catalonia is part of Kingdom of Spain.
Scots also voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation referendum whose result must be respected
It's good to be able to choose meat with that extra added savour of ill treatment, right?
Good to see all that Scottish Nationalist hate for our Aussie cousins.
The Scottish Farmer is a Scottish Nationalist organ now?
Good to see you blithely accepting that your bunch of dislikeable, untrustworthy weaklings are losing natural Tory voters at a rate of knots. Eventually there'll only be a battered head left mouthing 'tis but a flesh wound' and 'the don't knows are right behind us'.
Farmers now have more markets to export to thanks to the new trade deals we have
That you can post this with a straight face demonstrates how clueless you are. DOn't worry, you aren't alone. The lickspittle David Duguid keeps telling local farmers and fishermen how much better off they now are. As they know (a) they are worse off and (b) he is a prannock the seat is now chalked up as an SNP gain next time.
You can say "more markets to export to" as much as you like. As it isn't true you *will* get caught out.
Fishermen now out of CFP as promised
Yes. And the purpose of leaving the CFP was....?
Find out why CAP and CFP were unpopular and you'll discover what farmers and fishermen were hoping to achieve by leaving things like the CFP.
I'll give you a clue. It isn't what you have given them. And patronising them by lines like "Fishermen now out of CFP as promised" will just make them more determined to vote you out of office.
Fishermen have control of their own waters, as they voted for ie to get out of the CFP and EU
Not so 'blessed are the cheesemakers' under Brexit, it seems:
I take what that specific individual says with a pound of salt. He is a long time anti-Brexit, anti-Tory ranter.
That isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers to exports like him, but he is first to be in the Graudian saying Brexit is absolutely the end of the world and the "Johnson Variant" is responsible. He is the Brexit equivalent of Zero Covid Pagel.
As the article says there are lots of factors, and as I said that isn't to say Brexit hasn't placed extra barriers. You know I own a business in the EU right?
My point is that bloke is a billy bullshitter, but the Guardian swallow his claims regardless. He has this micro cheese business that has been going for 5+ years, but all of a sudden Brexit has costs his massive amounts of money. He is hardly flogging any cheese in the UK, such that it has 1 employee, but we are supposed to believe he is being inundated right after Brexit with all these massive orders that that damn Brexit has stopped him.
I must admit it is quite fun doing a bit of research and picking out the bullshit from these stories. This is not the first time the Guardian has featured this particular gentleman. Back in January he was splashed all over the paper making complaints.
2. I'm still waiting to hear all the massive export success stories.
Not disagreeing with you. I know loads of friends with tiny companies who are having problems. And loads of tiny companies start to add up both in terms of numbers/value and of opposition to Brexit if they all get the hump.
But the issue as I said is implementation. Getting rid of Johnson won't make it all rosy overnight but until he is gone we can do nothing to start to make Brexit work as it should.
What a laughable idea. If it was not for Boris leading the Leave campaign in 2016 rather than Farage or Gove, Remain would likely have narrowly won. If it was not for Boris winning a landslide in 2019 Brexit would never have got through Parliament.
As for whinging about 'making Brexit work as it should', the UK is now out of the EU, out of the single market and out of the customs union. It is no longer subject to the ECJ, no longer pays large sums to the EU, is out of the CFP, has replaced free movement with a points system and does its own trade deals.
The likeliest replacement for Boris would likely be Starmer who would probably take the UK back into the customs union so no more trade deals and align more closely to single market regulations again
You never cease to amaze me with the depths of your ignorance. Matched only by your arrogance and fascist tendencies.
Starmer cannot take us back into the Customs Union. It is not in his purview to do so even should he want to. Membership of the Customs Union is dependent on membership of the EU. No non EU member can be a member of the Customs Union (bar a single microstate - Monaco). Indeed even if the EU wanted us as a member of the Customs Union they could not achieve that without rewriting the basic EU treaties.
If you do want to comment on such matters without looking a complete moron you might try actually learning the basics in the first place.
Wow, that's harsh. But fair.
I will admit that HYUFD brings out the worst in me. I can accept we may differ on basic political matters just as I do with many other PB regulars who I otherwise get along with extremely well. But almost uniquely on here I consider him to be what I would refer to as a 'bad' person. His willingness to support and advocate the use of force and violence against people he differs with politically puts him beyond the pale for me. Even if he is not entirely serious, his advocacy for such action makes him someone I believe worthy of utter contempt. It all goes back to the Spanish Grandmothers originally but that has set the tone for his more recent pronouncements and my responses.
Do I care? No, if Nationalists rioted and tried and declared UDI or held an indyref without UK government consent the full force of the state would need to be used to stop them.
Anything else would be weak. Catalonia remains in Spain after Madrid took tough action to stop the Catalan separatists trying to break off in 2017.
I may agree with you on a few things like grammar schools but otherwise in my view you are an extreme libertarian whose opinion of me does not bother me at all
Just as a matter of interest, would it have been right for the British government to use "the full force of the state" to deter independence movements (via ample use of body bags) in the former Empire?
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
We did in the American colonies, in Ireland in the Irish War of Independence and arguably in South Africa in the Boer Wars and India in the Indian mutiny.
France did in Algeria and Vietnam, Spain did in many of their Latin American colonies and the Philippines. Mexico did with Texas. Ethiopia did with Eritrea. Russia did in Chechyna. Serbia did in the former Yugoslavia, China may well do with Taiwan.
However Scotland is not a colony but part of the United Kingdom which elects its own MPs and since the 1707 Act of Union has been subject to the sovereignty of Westminster and withing the Kingdom of the UK, much as Catalonia is part of Kingdom of Spain.
Scots also voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation referendum whose result must be respected
Good grief! Do you not see that your list of examples is also a list of abject failures laced with a few genocides and other war crimes?
Not all of them, the Boer Wars were ultimately won and the Indian mutiny put down. Ireland was partitioned, not all of it became independent. Chechyna is also not really fully independent of Russia and we await to see whether Taiwan can stay independent of China.
However as I said Scotland is not a colony and respecting the result of a once in a generation referendum is a different matter
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
It is amazing though that Drakeford keeps defying gravity in the way he does.
Stripped of the verbiage, he is a fifth rate not very successful academic who owes his entire advancement to networking with a bunch of people of his own sort, whose views are stuck somewhere in 1885 and whose entire policy offering has been a disaster. He's a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon or Laura Pidcock. Heck, he's nearly as useless as Johnson and doesn't even have a sense of humour.
And yet he remains incredibly popular.
Just goes to show how parochial my fellow Welsh are. They'd rather have somebody like them rather than somebody vaguely capable.
Tbf, your compatriots only have to look over to Westminster to see how much worse things could be.
I would say Drakeford's government is actually somewhat worse than Johnson's.
And I don't say that out of starry eyed admiration for Johnson.
There are at least some vaguely sane people in the cabinet. I wouldn't go bail for the Welsh Executive.
The Welsh polls suggest your views are not widely shared.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
Some of which will be with covid rather than due to covid (not that this is benign, there are major risks of anaesthesia in covid, so hip fracture and asymptomatic covid could be bad news indeed).
This is broadly to be expected in a high prevalence situation, as those due to covid generally require a few days to a week before they get ill.
I would caution over interpreting these stats as they are likely to be incomplete due to the holidays etc.
Incomplete and/or distorted by the holiday effects, presumably?
Some of the UK numbers that BigG has just quoted down thread are badly backdated as they're reported at the speed of the slowest contributing nation. The English admissions and total patient data are both now current and show a substantial rise over the last few days, but as you say we have no indication from these figures as to what percentage of those patients are sick from Covid or merely carrying it, and these numbers tell us nothing about the severity of the actual Covid cases - we'll presumably have to wait and see if the admissions feed through into a rise in ventilator bed occupancy to gauge that? - or whether the amount of time the less difficult cases are spending in hospital is falling.
This will all be very frustrating to the pro and anti restriction factions alike, but it looks as though we still need more data - which, presumably, is what the UK Government has elected to keep waiting for?
It'll also be interesting to see if the unvaccinated continue to account for a very high proportion of the most seriously ill. If the hospital situation does get a lot more difficult then the Government may soon be confronted with awkward choices about whether to impose more Covid crap on everyone, or to go easy on most of the population and opt for Draconian curbs on the refusers.
No it's option 3, deprioritise COVID treatment for vaccine refusers but don't say anything. Even if they go to the media about not getting NHS treatment there will be little sympathy for people who have refused the vaccine.
I have some sympathy for your frustration with the buggers, but hospital doctors are not going to euthanise them by stealth. They've consistently prioritised Covid care over everything else *and* shown no inclination to treat people in any way differently depending on vaccination status. The NHS is perfectly happy to hook refusers up to ventilators whilst abandoning other seriously ill people to die to make room for them.
If the Government wants refusers wheeled off into a tent in the hospital car park and put down then it will have to issue explicit orders to that effect, which the medical profession will disobey and the courts would most likely strike down in any event.
There are only two ways to approach the refuser problem: persist with gentle persuasion, which is agonizingly slow and probably won't do very much good, or find ways to make their lives so difficult that they give in. Except that measures so extreme that they would have the desired effect - basically stripping refusers of the right to work without vaccine certification - would almost certainly be vetoed by an alliance of Opposition parties and Tory libertarians.
So we're back to persuasion, or persuasion plus useless gestures like vaxports for restaurants, which will only provoke more heel digging without really hurting the refusers and, therefore, make the situation worse rather than better. Sadly, I think that patiently listening to their "concerns" and/or talking them out of their apathy is all we've got.
In the first wave there was a minor kerfuffle over a triage scorecard determining who would receive treatment for Covid. You would get points for various factors on an infirmity scale, and the higher your score the more likely it would be that you would not be treated, if there was someone more likely to benefit from treatment (with a lower score).
Pretty sure it would be possible for the government and NHS to put together a similar set of triage guidelines that would prioritise care for cancer, and heart disease over Covid care for vaccine refusers, on the basis that the former were more likely to benefit from treatment that those who reject modern medical science. Also, if you were to open some specific standalone Covid wards (whether in a car park tent or not) then it's a simple matter of moving people to the appropriate wards and providing more resources to other wards in the hospital.
The NHS has always operated by rationing care with a system of queueing. It would not be difficult to change the prioritisation order for the queue to prioritise other patients above Covid patients. It's been done before to prioritise speedy cancer diagnostics and treatment ahead of other conditions. How many people will be demanding that vaccine refusers jump ahead of them in the queue for hospital treatment?
It undermines one of the founding principles of the NHS
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
It is amazing though that Drakeford keeps defying gravity in the way he does.
Stripped of the verbiage, he is a fifth rate not very successful academic who owes his entire advancement to networking with a bunch of people of his own sort, whose views are stuck somewhere in 1885 and whose entire policy offering has been a disaster. He's a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon or Laura Pidcock. Heck, he's nearly as useless as Johnson and doesn't even have a sense of humour.
And yet he remains incredibly popular.
Just goes to show how parochial my fellow Welsh are. They'd rather have somebody like them rather than somebody vaguely capable.
Tbf, your compatriots only have to look over to Westminster to see how much worse things could be.
I would say Drakeford's government is actually somewhat worse than Johnson's.
And I don't say that out of starry eyed admiration for Johnson.
There are at least some vaguely sane people in the cabinet. I wouldn't go bail for the Welsh Executive.
The Welsh polls suggest your views are not widely shared.
So we come back to my earlier point - they prefer one of their own, regardless of how useless he is.
It does go a long way towards explaining why Wales is in such a mess.
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
But park runs are cancelled in Wales....that will do the trick.
You mean, after everything we've learned about the way this virus does and does not transmit, and the importance of exercise to both physical and mental health during this whole tragedy, they've torpedoed parkrun - again?
It's at least gratifying to know that the Welsh administration is as full of dense fuckwits as the central government, I suppose.
The RNLI had to cancel their boxing day dip
Well, to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment, it's possible that the Welsh Government was so terrified of Omicron that they really wanted to have either a total lockdown, or a near-total lockdown with the schools allowed to stay open. Lacking, however, the resources for mass business closures, they simply banned some stuff it wouldn't cost them anything to ban, to disguise their fundamental weakness.
I believe that the structure of devolution is flawed and that the Welsh Government really ought to have enough of a devolved tax base and borrowing powers to be able to act independently in a situation such as this, without recourse to the UK Treasury, if it feels that strongly about an issue within its competence. If the consequence of that were to be, for arguments' sake, a 3p hike in all income tax bands and a substantial sum set aside each year to cover debt servicing costs - and the Welsh electorate were then happy to return the Government proposing such a thing - then fine.
Devolution really is a dog's breakfast - that is, you can argue all you like about the principle of the thing, but the way it's been implemented in practice is grossly incompetent. The New Labour Government and it's Tory successors all have much to answer for in this regard.
Not least because of the increased lack of clarity. The scrapping of the Sewel motions as allegedly only a convention was a particular problem, because it completely upended serious matters of legality and demarcation.
What's wrong with Alexa getting children to electrocute themselves? Death is a part of life. It's Darwinism. We shouldn't sacrifice our freedoms just to save the lives of a few people that would have walked in front of a bus or fell down an open drain anyway.
I think you are Lev Kamanev and I claim my £10.
Fixed that for you
This was a reference to a Daily Express competition of the 60s, seeking out a lookylikey carrying a copy of the Daily Expross in a particular inland resort btw, nothing sinister.
I know, I got the reference
Was it the express? thought it was the Mirror.
Leaving aside the Soviet part of the joke to concentrate on the newspaper competition. Lots of papers did it and it dates back to before the war, at least. It was the Mcguffin in Brighton Rock, for instance. The usual style on pb is "you are XXX AICMFP (and I claim my five pounds).
The character was called Lobby Lud from the Westminster Gazette and later the News Chronicle. To win the competition you had to say the exact phrase without hesitation. Lobby would announce what seaside resort he would be at and then do things like join tour groups, ride on merry go rounds etc. If challenged he would try to put off the person before they could say the phrase. It was so popular that lots of other news papers did similar competitions but the phrase originates with Lobby Lud.
BTW, The Royal Institution Christmas Lectures has just started on BBC Four. Professor Jonathan Can-Tam is giving a lecture on viruses and the immune system.
Is that the lesser known brother of JVT ;-)
That seems like a brilliant selection for the Christmas lecture series.
It is fascinating from the perspective of somebody who despises Johnson and admires Drakeford, the utter disdain people here seem to have for him. I wonder if this is how people that admire Johnson feel
Thousands of New Year’s Eve revellers are expected to escape strict Covid-19 restrictions in Wales by hopping across the border to visit nightspots in English towns and cities.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
No - the borders are open and many will cross into England
Interesting if true. It's not in keeping with the Welsh authorities' previous behaviour, although I spy an ulterior motive.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
If Boris decision is proven correct and Drakeford has overreacted again there will be no hiding place
No matter how hard you cling to the hope that Boris will come good in the end, it ain't happening Big_G.
You cannot have read my posts over the period since Paterson's debacle to even suggest I want Boris to come good
However, HMG decision for England is correct and I support it completely
His mps need to act ASAP to remove him
Big G was one of those who warned us what he was like, from the beginning.
If he hadn’t gone and voted for the numpty regardless, his credibility on here would be immense.
"We've always said this will be an evolution not a revolution"
Environment Secretary George Eustice tells @bbcnickrobinson the government will keep agriculture spending at the same level under the new subsidy system, while the old payments are phased out over 7 years
I live in a red wall seat and Labour offer me nothing. Correct Horse Battery was simply on another planet saying New Labour did more for people like me between 1997 and 2010 really? Free movement reducing wages in return for more sure start buildings the hall mark of New Labour between 1997 and 2010. What is Starmers offer? Vote Labour get more free movement?
I assume that wages rose a tad. Poverty fell, schools and hospitals rebuilt etc etc. I know it wasn't enough but "nothing" just demonstrates that you are of the Don't Look Up mentality ignoring what is in front of you.
Wages may have rose a tad and relative poverty may have fallen but in comparison to the south and London it was negligible. The gap accelerated. Hospitals and schools rebuilt. All PFI which we will be paying for years. It’s merely robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Wages grew a lot - the days of £2.20 an hour are the past. Absolute grinding poverty fell away. And the hospitals and schools that were literally crumbling away needed replacing - its not as if borrowing to do so was on the agenda. So what was the alternative?
I do agree that the economy is heavily imbalanced to the SE. The problem is that nobody is offering a solution. The Tories are demonstrating that "levelling up" doesn't really extend beyond window dressing and a slogan. Brexit has made it worse not better for manufacturing. So what else is there?
The sad reality is that in England there seems to be no idea - none at all - about how to fix the structural problems. As an advocate for federalism and regionalism I can see how it could be done, but neither option for government is interested so the decline will continue.
Wages grew a lot if you were earning well under minimum wage but that was nowhere near what many people earned minimum wage not only dragged wages up but also dragged some down. How many people earned £2.20 an hour when labour came to power. I was doing bar work then and earned more than that. What they do for productivity ? It didn’t really improve. Economic growth was based on consumer spending and manufacturing suffered catastrophic job losses and factory closures. Still, we got a few call centres.
It would have been more cost effective to borrow so why not. If it’s better than saddling us with punitive debt and repayments then they should have had the courage to do to.
Comments
The Dumfriesshire option of moving even within the UK has already happened in a sense; Mr Blair changed the sea boundaries by fiat just before the Scottish Executive (as it was then) was reestablished in 1997, annexing a fair chunk of the North Sea [edit] to England. He didn't do that on land, though, for (I assume) legal and political reasons as well as legal (completely different legal systems). However they didn't think to deal with the sea floor in the 1706 Acts ...
You are twisting yourself in knots.
Now for the 6th time answer the question? Not doing so makes you look very silly. It goes to show you have no idea about the free trade deals you are pontificating on.
You and your fellow Liberal Democrats opposed them
I have been on wards and we do a lot of initiatives at our Trust to promote staff Health and Wellbeing. Our trust was on CNN a number of times during some of the earlier waves so we got hit pretty hard with it. Lot of staff have been referred to us by their managers or they have referred themselves as the impact of working with Covid has really taken it's toll. Our job is to support them and help them back into work.
But to your question answered by perhaps a layman and just my opinion, Incidental admissions have happened throughout Covid, are we seeing more of this with Omicron? I don't know, but any Covid admission whether that's admittance because of Covid or incidental puts a strain on services.
Someone tests positive when they are in for something else means all the infection control protocols have to kick in, have to make sure procedures are put in place and carried out. You also have to prevent nosocomial infections and transmission in the hospitals as well. This is such a transmissible disease that you have to prevent it finding the way to the most vulnerable in hospital.
Covid in general in hospitals puts a lot of strain on so many different services in so many different ways.
Now for the 7th time answer the question? You clearly can't hence you have avoided it 6 times.
I'm clear what you don't want but what DO you want? A freeze on all immigration - the forced repatriation of EU citizens within the UK?
As a Londoner, I don't pretend to understand "the red wall" though my Borough (Newham) is solid Labour. For what kind of political/financial settlement are you looking?
May I ask what the Tories have done for you since 2010 in that case? I was only referring to the statistics and evidence, that say New Labour did more levelling up than the Tories have managed.
What do you want? FOM is over now.
Anyone in France on here at the moment? Interesting they decided to ban Brits..
What I was alluding to yesterday was around why we need to constantly put London against the rest of the country? There is immense poverty in parts of London, people there need/want levelling up, just as the North needs it too.
I just don't like the idea a working class person in London isn't actually a working class person, that they're somehow actually part of the metropolitan elite and worthy of ridicule.
My expectation is that the world won’t end and, to paraphrase a famous young Brexit fan, nobody will starve to death, but look out for a fair bit of grumbling from businesses and some cost rises flowing from the added bureaucracy. It’s all very much not with a bang but a whimper - the essence of our particular version of Brexit.
Hospital admissions now beginning to rise as well, thought to be as a result of Omicrom spreading into the over-40s (as in the UK, the initial surge in infections was more amongst youngsters).
More detail here (in French, but not difficult):
https://twitter.com/GuillaumeRozier/status/1475901046346113033
The Macroon has lost the plot - first he tried to be more nationalist than the National Ramblers (deadname The Petain Memorial Tribute Band), now he is looking at sharing the second round with a non-fascist.
Expect more funky fun....
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
HYUFD is one of the few people here to not have underestimated Starmer from the day he was elected. That has to mean something.
Leaders of the nightlife industry in Wales are angry that they will lose trade to their counterparts in England because Welsh nightclubs have been ordered to shut and pubs told to put in social distancing measures.
But the Welsh government said on Tuesday that its restrictions were proportionate, with the latest seven-day coronavirus rate per 100,000 people rising to 1,004 – the highest since the pandemic began. About 6,000 new infections are being confirmed daily, the majority caused by the Omicron variant.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/28/england-braces-for-welsh-revellers-escaping-covid-restrictions
Question for Welsh readers: given that Welsh police officers were stationed along the border earlier in the pandemic, has Mr Drakeford revealed any new plans to try to stop his own people from absconding from his dreary territory to attend forbidden parties?
Under new labour manufacturing employment tumbled. Well paid jobs were replaced. New labour did little for our communities. We lose a manufacturing facility with well paid jobs but gain a sure start centre. Big deal. You can claim all you want new labour levelled us up. The reality is that is certainly not felt. Look at economic growth and house price growth in the south east and London and compare it to the north east in the period of new labour.
For a long time in the run up to this people like Matt Godwin were saying that the tories could have a generation in power and permanently destroy the labour party by embracing the reallignment and 'leaning in' to the red wall. But there was a change of heart which can only really be explained by the idea that the interests of voters in the red wall are fundamentally at odds with the Conservative Party and the people that comprise it.
So, by sidelining the red wall and its levelling up agenda, as it appears to have done, the conservative party may have effectively saved the labour party, enabling it to build an alternative coalition between parts of the red wall and urban constituencies across the south. With little indication of change in Scotland, it seems unlikely that anyone will be able to build up a parliamentary majority again in the foreseeable future.
If Johnson goes, all bets are off. But I am not sure Johnson will go. Major never did
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/ghost-towns-confused-customers-covid-22585510#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare
A gap for labour to fill.
The moment the Tories turned their back on levelling up was the moment the red wall, which had been their staunchest supporters, turn against them
And can you give me a couple of examples of where forcing people to remain part of a country has worked out well for either group?
By the next election the need for delivery will be critical. Generations of Labour MPs / councils did nothing. Brexit and Boris have done nothing. People need something - and the risk is that they listen to an even more extreme voice offering more extreme solutions. Or if that isn't available, simply don't vote at all.
Looking at the most recent 7-day case rates by specimen date, Wales's case rate is almost as bad as England's and is actually climbing more rapidly at the moment. Should the progress of the virus continues in this fashion, I wonder how long it'll take somebody from the Welsh Government to blame it on cross-border contagion - rather than being forced to concede the possibility that the extra restrictions they've chosen to impose might have been useless...?
I do agree that the economy is heavily imbalanced to the SE. The problem is that nobody is offering a solution. The Tories are demonstrating that "levelling up" doesn't really extend beyond window dressing and a slogan. Brexit has made it worse not better for manufacturing. So what else is there?
The sad reality is that in England there seems to be no idea - none at all - about how to fix the structural problems. As an advocate for federalism and regionalism I can see how it could be done, but neither option for government is interested so the decline will continue.
Thinking particularly of the Amritsar Massacre in light of recent events...
France did in Algeria and Vietnam, Spain did in many of their Latin American colonies and the Philippines. Mexico did with Texas. Ethiopia did with Eritrea. Russia did in Chechyna. Serbia did in the former Yugoslavia, China may well do with Taiwan.
However Scotland is not a colony but part of the United Kingdom which elects its own MPs and since the 1707 Act of Union has been subject to the sovereignty of Westminster and withing the Kingdom of the UK, much as Catalonia is part of Kingdom of Spain.
Scots also voted to stay in the UK in a once in a generation referendum whose result must be respected
It's at least gratifying to know that the Welsh administration is as full of dense fuckwits as the central government, I suppose.
Checks notes, Labour now polling the highest since 2005, oh well
Closing the gyms I understand. But outdoor sport is just counter-productive.
But that is the theme running through this entire government, and it's not just about lockdown. It's the theme that "we are the ruling class and we can get away with whatever because you plebs gave us a stonking majority, now we get to do what we like". It was the theme behind proroguation, remember that? Which people wanted to forgive as it helped "get brexit done"... But also the theme behind trying to save Owen Paterson, saving Jenrick after granting that $1b planning permission to a Tory donor, the countless other donors who seem to have done well out of covid related contracts, and so on, and so forth.
The Tories are unpopular now because they are seen to be governing entirely in their own interests, at all times. As if they have no other real ideology other than power for power's sake.
Say what you like about Fatcha, at least you know she believed in something. What does Boris, the man who wrote two columns the night before declaring for Brexit, believe in?
However, HMG decision for England is correct and I support it completely
His mps need to act ASAP to remove him
Stripped of the verbiage, he is a fifth rate not very successful academic who owes his entire advancement to networking with a bunch of people of his own sort, whose views are stuck somewhere in 1885 and whose entire policy offering has been a disaster. He's a slightly more articulate version of Richard Burgon or Laura Pidcock. Heck, he's nearly as useless as Johnson and doesn't even have a sense of humour. I might even compare him to Edward Leigh.
And yet he remains incredibly popular.
Just goes to show how parochial my fellow Welsh are. They'd rather have somebody like them rather than somebody vaguely capable.
Week 51 Admissions (Projected): 7768 (7% week on week fall)
Week 51 Deaths (Projected): 572 (40% Week on week rise
% Ventilated: 3.2% (Rising)
% Oxygenated: 14.7 %
I believe that the structure of devolution is flawed and that the Welsh Government really ought to have enough of a devolved tax base and borrowing powers to be able to act independently in a situation such as this, without recourse to the UK Treasury, if it feels that strongly about an issue within its competence. If the consequence of that were to be, for arguments' sake, a 3p hike in all income tax bands and a substantial sum set aside each year to cover debt servicing costs - and the Welsh electorate were then happy to return the Government proposing such a thing - then fine.
Devolution really is a dog's breakfast - that is, you can argue all you like about the principle of the thing, but the way it's been implemented in practice is grossly incompetent. The New Labour Government and it's Tory successors all have much to answer for in this regard.
And I don't say that out of starry eyed admiration for Johnson.
There are at least some vaguely sane people in the cabinet. I wouldn't go bail for the Welsh Executive.
Chechyna is also not really fully independent of Russia and we await to see whether Taiwan can stay independent of China.
However as I said Scotland is not a colony and respecting the result of a once in a generation referendum is a different matter
It does go a long way towards explaining why Wales is in such a mess.
That seems like a brilliant selection for the Christmas lecture series.
If he hadn’t gone and voted for the numpty regardless, his credibility on here would be immense.
"We've always said this will be an evolution not a revolution"
Environment Secretary George Eustice tells @bbcnickrobinson the government will keep agriculture spending at the same level under the new subsidy system, while the old payments are phased out over 7 years
#R4Today
It would have been more cost effective to borrow so why not. If it’s better than saddling us with punitive debt and repayments then they should have had the courage to do to.