Historically the French have managed to do a bit better than us through not making a pigs ear of applying unavoidable restrictions - more so when Johnson was doing the lockdown hokey-cokey last Winter than at the start of all of this.
However, the past is another country. The French casedemic is following the same trajectory as ours and their per capita corpse count is now significantly higher. Contrary to Dr Gurdasani's recent entreaties, sellotaping pieces of blue paper to children's faces and bringing in vaccine passports everywhere hasn't spared them.
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
We discussed this before and noted the oddly low rates of suicide during the pandemic.
I mentioned this to a mental health professional I know following that convo and she reckoned it was because a lot of people actually do better during a lockdown (social anxiety?).
The other brutal reason was that a lot of men do it spontaneously following a break up or after alcohol abuse, and there have been fewer opportunities for that.
Any “damaged kids rippling down decades” parallels with the Second World War, which if anything was further years of disruption and greater trauma? 🤔
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
That's awful. One of my more distant relatives committed suicide last lockdown when there was no end date to it, the family gossip is that he was already depressed but then the lockdown pushed him over the edge because he lived alone and had broken up with his boyfriend just before the pandemic started. Overdosed on painkillers and left a video message saying he couldn't take the feeling of being trapped any longer and not knowing when he would be free. The family were understandably devastated as they'd asked him to move back home a few times but he didn't get on with his dad who didn't agree with his, err, lifestyle.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
Whilst acknowledging that for some the effects of lockdown have been literally tragic, I'd caution about assuming too much will 'ripple down the years'.
Humans are incredibly resilient overall. Look at how people recovered after the deprivations of WW2.
Yeah, except for the 85m who died outright, and the god knows how many who survived but were destroyed forever after from a mental health pov. Survivorship bias is puzzlingly hard to avoid.
Of course. The 85m who died evidence my point that WW2 was a much larger catastrophe than this pandemic. But by and large people who survived were clearly not 'destroyed forever' by mental health issues - civilisation and society recovered and carried on thriving.
Likewise, I do not expect Covid to cast a shadow that ropples down the years. It will leave a cultural mark of course but the vast majority will, whilst not forgetting, move on.
Really? Of course, by and large, folk got on with it. But it wasn't normal. It couldn't be because people had abnormal experiences. Not least several years of absence from their kids.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
COVID: More than 500 children admitted to hospital with coronavirus in England in week to Boxing Day
A total of 512 children were admitted to hospital with COVID in England in the week leading up to Boxing Day, figures have revealed.
The numbers, released on the government's coronavirus dashboard, also show that 59 children under five were admitted to hospital between Christmas Day and Boxing Day alone.
A further 50 children in the same age bracket were admitted in the 24 hours prior.
This is where we need to know with or because of....
I put the up every day... and then someone "breaks the news".... sigh....
It's almost as if someone dares to post on here without reading every other post on the thread first. Outrageous! ;-)
Farmer Tupac to the red courtesy phone, Farmer Tupac to the red courtesy phone.....
Sorry - you've lost me there.
Framer Tupac (aka "tim") formerly of this parish, had read every single posting in every single thread on PB since it began. And commented on them.....
Not to turn this into a love-in with @HYUFD but at least he doesn't pretend to not be anything other than a Tory unlike some others who seem to spend their whole time trying to pretend they're not, or that they're just about to quit the party for the third time this week...
Anyway, I just thought @HYUFD deserved some support, I really wish people would stop jumping on him. We don't hear a lot about him beyond his political POV (something which I respect) but there is somebody behind that keyboard and it can't be easy to have sometimes a lot of abuse coming your way.
I'm leaving this topic to one side, I have a delicious bolognese that is on the menu for this evening
Yes, I have more respect for the consistent tribalism of HYUFD TBH than the behaviour of a lot of other PB commentators. I find his loyalty to Johnson/the Tories quite admirable in a funny way TBH. He is taking the rough with the smooth. I find a lot of so called centre/centre right commentators on Politicalbetting rather hypocritical and irritating TBH.
Most of his predictions/analysis since 2019 has been pretty reasonable on GB politics at least even he talks nonsense about some other countries like Germany.
Hi Gary, hope you are keeping well.
HYUFD is one of the few people here to not have underestimated Starmer from the day he was elected. That has to mean something.
Underestimated Starmer? Are you selling some sort of story that Boris has fallen into SKS's cunning trap? All Starmer has done is maintain a constant position at 87 in the charts, while Johnson has plummeted from No 1 to no 100. He had one good PMQ and that's it.
That’s a better analogy than your apartment block one. I never quite understood what you were aiming at (apart from the pavement, obviously)
I thought the penthouse suite analogy was one of my all time peaks, but there you go.
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
Whilst acknowledging that for some the effects of lockdown have been literally tragic, I'd caution about assuming too much will 'ripple down the years'.
Humans are incredibly resilient overall. Look at how people recovered after the deprivations of WW2.
Yeah, except for the 85m who died outright, and the god knows how many who survived but were destroyed forever after from a mental health pov. Survivorship bias is puzzlingly hard to avoid.
Of course. The 85m who died evidence my point that WW2 was a much larger catastrophe than this pandemic. But by and large people who survived were clearly not 'destroyed forever' by mental health issues - civilisation and society recovered and carried on thriving.
Likewise, I do not expect Covid to cast a shadow that ropples down the years. It will leave a cultural mark of course but the vast majority will, whilst not forgetting, move on.
I would say that; from a historical perspective, the response to COVID reveals the extremes advanced modern societies will go to in pursuit of safety. There is no WW2 style die off, the excess deaths are not particularly high, and are mostly old people with existing health conditions.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
“Don’t look up don’t look up”
Don’t bother, you have already seen better half of the film. When she got all shouty and taken off grid. 🙂
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
I did no such thing. I merely pointed out that the relative trajectories of the French and British pandemics implied that the additional restrictions in force in France may no longer be adequate to contain the virus.
Ishmael appears to have flown off the handle because he's currently in the scared witless camp. My flippant response probably hasn't helped, but equally neither does the torrent of screaming abuse.
Historically the French have managed to do a bit better than us through not making a pigs ear of applying unavoidable restrictions - more so when Johnson was doing the lockdown hokey-cokey last Winter than at the start of all of this.
However, the past is another country. The French casedemic is following the same trajectory as ours and their per capita corpse count is now significantly higher. Contrary to Dr Gurdasani's recent entreaties, sellotaping pieces of blue paper to children's faces and bringing in vaccine passports everywhere hasn't spared them.
"The past is another country" = let's not count anything apart from the last three weeks?
I don't think you're searching for an honest epidemiological assessment of policy choices, you're just pushing a simplistic point. It's Jackanory with graphs.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
More people are going to die this winter across the continent because countries didn't learn to live with the virus in the summer. Its what was grimly forecast for many months here while idiots were banging on about "plague island" but that doesn't mean anyone draws any satisfaction from it or views it as being a good thing.
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
Some of which will be with covid rather than due to covid (not that this is benign, there are major risks of anaesthesia in covid, so hip fracture and asymptomatic covid could be bad news indeed).
This is broadly to be expected in a high prevalence situation, as those due to covid generally require a few days to a week before they get ill.
I would caution over interpreting these stats as they are likely to be incomplete due to the holidays etc.
Incomplete and/or distorted by the holiday effects, presumably?
Some of the UK numbers that BigG has just quoted down thread are badly backdated as they're reported at the speed of the slowest contributing nation. The English admissions and total patient data are both now current and show a substantial rise over the last few days, but as you say we have no indication from these figures as to what percentage of those patients are sick from Covid or merely carrying it, and these numbers tell us nothing about the severity of the actual Covid cases - we'll presumably have to wait and see if the admissions feed through into a rise in ventilator bed occupancy to gauge that? - or whether the amount of time the less difficult cases are spending in hospital is falling.
This will all be very frustrating to the pro and anti restriction factions alike, but it looks as though we still need more data - which, presumably, is what the UK Government has elected to keep waiting for?
It'll also be interesting to see if the unvaccinated continue to account for a very high proportion of the most seriously ill. If the hospital situation does get a lot more difficult then the Government may soon be confronted with awkward choices about whether to impose more Covid crap on everyone, or to go easy on most of the population and opt for Draconian curbs on the refusers.
No it's option 3, deprioritise COVID treatment for vaccine refusers but don't say anything. Even if they go to the media about not getting NHS treatment there will be little sympathy for people who have refused the vaccine.
I have some sympathy for your frustration with the buggers, but hospital doctors are not going to euthanise them by stealth. They've consistently prioritised Covid care over everything else *and* shown no inclination to treat people in any way differently depending on vaccination status. The NHS is perfectly happy to hook refusers up to ventilators whilst abandoning other seriously ill people to die to make room for them.
If the Government wants refusers wheeled off into a tent in the hospital car park and put down then it will have to issue explicit orders to that effect, which the medical profession will disobey and the courts would most likely strike down in any event.
There are only two ways to approach the refuser problem: persist with gentle persuasion, which is agonizingly slow and probably won't do very much good, or find ways to make their lives so difficult that they give in. Except that measures so extreme that they would have the desired effect - basically stripping refusers of the right to work without vaccine certification - would almost certainly be vetoed by an alliance of Opposition parties and Tory libertarians.
So we're back to persuasion, or persuasion plus useless gestures like vaxports for restaurants, which will only provoke more heel digging without really hurting the refusers and, therefore, make the situation worse rather than better. Sadly, I think that patiently listening to their "concerns" and/or talking them out of their apathy is all we've got.
In the first wave there was a minor kerfuffle over a triage scorecard determining who would receive treatment for Covid. You would get points for various factors on an infirmity scale, and the higher your score the more likely it would be that you would not be treated, if there was someone more likely to benefit from treatment (with a lower score).
Pretty sure it would be possible for the government and NHS to put together a similar set of triage guidelines that would prioritise care for cancer, and heart disease over Covid care for vaccine refusers, on the basis that the former were more likely to benefit from treatment that those who reject modern medical science. Also, if you were to open some specific standalone Covid wards (whether in a car park tent or not) then it's a simple matter of moving people to the appropriate wards and providing more resources to other wards in the hospital.
The NHS has always operated by rationing care with a system of queueing. It would not be difficult to change the prioritisation order for the queue to prioritise other patients above Covid patients. It's been done before to prioritise speedy cancer diagnostics and treatment ahead of other conditions. How many people will be demanding that vaccine refusers jump ahead of them in the queue for hospital treatment?
It undermines one of the founding principles of the NHS
If you're trying to imply that prioritisation and care rationing would undermine those principles then you are way, way too late. Leaving aside the plain fact that there have always been waiting lists, postcode lotteries, and that people have always been denied some treatments on the grounds of value for money, prioritisation and care rationing are both basic features of the NHS approach to Covid care. Covid patients are prioritised and care for many other conditions is rationed as a consequence.
As to the specific case of deprioritising treatment for vaccine refusers, there is ample precedent for this as well. Patients suffering from a variety of conditions are routinely denied surgery until they lose a prescribed amount of weight, and let's not even get started on alcoholics and liver transplants...
Or is it your contention that it's the responsibility of the state to save one particular group of its citizens from all the consequences of their bad decisions, regardless of the fact that so doing heaps misery and death upon others? Each intensive care bed blocked by a refuser could mean permanent disability or death for people whose treatment is delayed as a result. And then there's the enormous burden of emergency panic restrictions if the hospitals start to buckle under the weight of Covid patients - the sickest of whom are now predominantly unvaccinated.
So, why should we regard the welfare of the refusers as sacrosanct, whilst breezily dismissing the collateral damage caused to everybody else by their choices?
Prioritisation and care rationing happens on the basis of likely outcomes and QALY calculations. They aren’t decided on the basis of a moral judgement. Thus someone in a car accident is treated the same regardless of whether they are drunk, sober, speeding or whatever. Obesity and transplants are 100% in the outcomes bucket.
To change that to one which is based on “I disapprove of your decision” opens up a whole different can of worms.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
More people are going to die this winter across the continent because countries didn't learn to live with the virus in the summer. Its what was grimly forecast for many months here while idiots were banging on about "plague island" but that doesn't mean anyone draws any satisfaction from it or views it as being a good thing.
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
Whilst acknowledging that for some the effects of lockdown have been literally tragic, I'd caution about assuming too much will 'ripple down the years'.
Humans are incredibly resilient overall. Look at how people recovered after the deprivations of WW2.
Yeah, except for the 85m who died outright, and the god knows how many who survived but were destroyed forever after from a mental health pov. Survivorship bias is puzzlingly hard to avoid.
Of course. The 85m who died evidence my point that WW2 was a much larger catastrophe than this pandemic. But by and large people who survived were clearly not 'destroyed forever' by mental health issues - civilisation and society recovered and carried on thriving.
Likewise, I do not expect Covid to cast a shadow that ropples down the years. It will leave a cultural mark of course but the vast majority will, whilst not forgetting, move on.
Really? Of course, by and large, folk got on with it. But it wasn't normal. It couldn't be because people had abnormal experiences. Not least several years of absence from their kids.
There is a big social theory in Germany that the generation AFTER the war all had abnormal social development because they were raised by parents who didn't talk about their pasts, due to the immense collective guilt of compliance with the Nazis.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
“Don’t look up don’t look up”
Don’t bother, you have already seen better half of the film. When she got all shouty and taken off grid. 🙂
Seen death to 2021 yet?
What did you learn in 2021?
“I learn’t where my tonsils are so I could swab them. They were in a jar in the spare room.”
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
More people are going to die this winter across the continent because countries didn't learn to live with the virus in the summer. Its what was grimly forecast for many months here while idiots were banging on about "plague island" but that doesn't mean anyone draws any satisfaction from it or views it as being a good thing.
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
What a grim undertone in this post. Shameful
This is a grim situation and not learning to live with the virus is shameful indeed. The summer and autumn were the time to do so and now there's going to be a crash course of having to do so in the winter which was entirely avoidable and forecast.
You're right its grim, but the only people who should feel ashamed are the Zero Covidiots like Pagel and co and the continental leaders who so badly mismanaged the pandemic and refused to learn how to live with the virus during the summer.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
More people are going to die this winter across the continent because countries didn't learn to live with the virus in the summer. Its what was grimly forecast for many months here while idiots were banging on about "plague island" but that doesn't mean anyone draws any satisfaction from it or views it as being a good thing.
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
On the other hand. If everyone in Europe gets omicron over the next few months, yet suffer relatively few deaths and long-term issues in a largely vaccinated population, could they be said to have been right all along?
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
Whilst acknowledging that for some the effects of lockdown have been literally tragic, I'd caution about assuming too much will 'ripple down the years'.
Humans are incredibly resilient overall. Look at how people recovered after the deprivations of WW2.
Yeah, except for the 85m who died outright, and the god knows how many who survived but were destroyed forever after from a mental health pov. Survivorship bias is puzzlingly hard to avoid.
Of course. The 85m who died evidence my point that WW2 was a much larger catastrophe than this pandemic. But by and large people who survived were clearly not 'destroyed forever' by mental health issues - civilisation and society recovered and carried on thriving.
Likewise, I do not expect Covid to cast a shadow that ropples down the years. It will leave a cultural mark of course but the vast majority will, whilst not forgetting, move on.
Really? Of course, by and large, folk got on with it. But it wasn't normal. It couldn't be because people had abnormal experiences. Not least several years of absence from their kids.
There is a big social theory in Germany that the generation AFTER the war all had abnormal social development because they were raised by parents who didn't talk about their pasts, due to the immense collective guilt of compliance with the Nazis.
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
Whilst acknowledging that for some the effects of lockdown have been literally tragic, I'd caution about assuming too much will 'ripple down the years'.
Humans are incredibly resilient overall. Look at how people recovered after the deprivations of WW2.
Yeah, except for the 85m who died outright, and the god knows how many who survived but were destroyed forever after from a mental health pov. Survivorship bias is puzzlingly hard to avoid.
Stockton said that it effected the rest of his life
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
More people are going to die this winter across the continent because countries didn't learn to live with the virus in the summer. Its what was grimly forecast for many months here while idiots were banging on about "plague island" but that doesn't mean anyone draws any satisfaction from it or views it as being a good thing.
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
What a grim undertone in this post. Shameful
This is a grim situation and not learning to live with the virus is shameful indeed. The summer and autumn were the time to do so and now there's going to be a crash course of having to do so in the winter which was entirely avoidable and forecast.
You're right its grim, but the only people who should feel ashamed are the Zero Covidiots like Pagel and co and the continental leaders who so badly mismanaged the pandemic and refused to learn how to live with the virus during the summer.
Aren't you the same troll who was insisting for weeks during the summer that there weren't fewer cases on the continent just no testing?
Friend of a very close friend committed suicide this week. 28 years old. A young woman, in France, despairing of ever having a life again, because of Covid
I do not seek personal sympathy. I never knew her (tho she was very close to MY friend, as I say)
Just illustrating that, even tho the epidemic seems to ebb in some ways, it is quietly doing some devastating damage to mental health, everywhere. By all accounts this woman was not the suicidal type beforehand, but prolonged separation from friends, family, and future did her in
RIP
Sorry to hear that Leon. One of my wife’s co workers lost her husband last year for the same reason.
I reckon the ill-effects on mental health, from Covid, could become a bigger story than the physical effects of ill-health, quite soon. And they will ripple down the years, even the decades, in ways we do not know, but we can predict they will often be very sad.
A lot of damaged kids, for a start
Whilst acknowledging that for some the effects of lockdown have been literally tragic, I'd caution about assuming too much will 'ripple down the years'.
Humans are incredibly resilient overall. Look at how people recovered after the deprivations of WW2.
Yeah, except for the 85m who died outright, and the god knows how many who survived but were destroyed forever after from a mental health pov. Survivorship bias is puzzlingly hard to avoid.
Of course. The 85m who died evidence my point that WW2 was a much larger catastrophe than this pandemic. But by and large people who survived were clearly not 'destroyed forever' by mental health issues - civilisation and society recovered and carried on thriving.
Likewise, I do not expect Covid to cast a shadow that ropples down the years. It will leave a cultural mark of course but the vast majority will, whilst not forgetting, move on.
Really? Of course, by and large, folk got on with it. But it wasn't normal. It couldn't be because people had abnormal experiences. Not least several years of absence from their kids.
There is a big social theory in Germany that the generation AFTER the war all had abnormal social development because they were raised by parents who didn't talk about their pasts, due to the immense collective guilt of compliance with the Nazis.
Indeed. And Wartime has been postulated as an explanation for the characteristics of Boomers. And their kids.
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
“Don’t look up don’t look up”
Don’t bother, you have already seen better half of the film. When she got all shouty and taken off grid. 🙂
Seen death to 2021 yet?
What did you learn in 2021?
“I learn’t where my tonsils are so I could swab them. They were in a jar in the spare room.”
I can’t believe they will get away with saying some of that stuff. The Duke Of Deadinburg. 🤭
Grimly satisfying. Each blow struck against the arguments of the lockdown ultras is one tiny step closer to the end of this nightmare.
You really are a complete, entire and utter fing cckskr. It isn't about what hebephrenic dweebs like you think is going to happen, it is about what actually happens, and we don't know what will happen, until it does. How hard is it to understand that if a future narrative is simple enough for someone as stupid as you to understand, it is almost certainly also too simple to be true? The nightmare is not about "lockdown ultras", it is about the wholly unpredictable evolution of a virus.
I am now going to watch the second half of Don't Look Up. I am worried that if I stayed on PB I might find myself being ruder to you than is strictly necessary.
Calm down dear.
You did basically say that people dying in France would be a good thing if it validated your view to stop lockdowns
More people are going to die this winter across the continent because countries didn't learn to live with the virus in the summer. Its what was grimly forecast for many months here while idiots were banging on about "plague island" but that doesn't mean anyone draws any satisfaction from it or views it as being a good thing.
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
On the other hand. If everyone in Europe gets omicron over the next few months, yet suffer relatively few deaths and long-term issues in a largely vaccinated population, could they be said to have been right all along?
Could very well be the case. Good preprint yesterday showing excellent immunity against delta conferred by omicron infection/recovery. It’s just possible that omicron will help, on balance. Lives will still be lost to it though.
Comments
However, the past is another country. The French casedemic is following the same trajectory as ours and their per capita corpse count is now significantly higher. Contrary to Dr Gurdasani's recent entreaties, sellotaping pieces of blue paper to children's faces and bringing in vaccine passports everywhere hasn't spared them.
Unless/despite evacuated out among farming folk.
That must have been the life for them. 🙂
Of course, by and large, folk got on with it. But it wasn't normal. It couldn't be because people had abnormal experiences. Not least several years of absence from their kids.
Don’t bother, you have already seen better half of the film. When she got all shouty and taken off grid. 🙂
Ishmael appears to have flown off the handle because he's currently in the scared witless camp. My flippant response probably hasn't helped, but equally neither does the torrent of screaming abuse.
Another one let go on the cheap for no good reason...
In an ideal world Omicron will mitigate much of the worst damage of what could have been under a Delta winter wave instead.
PB is like joining a soap you havn’t paid attention to before.
To change that to one which is based on “I disapprove of your decision” opens up a whole different can of worms.
An Englishman, an Englishman and an Englishman walk into a bar....
LOL.
What did you learn in 2021?
“I learn’t where my tonsils are so I could swab them. They were in a jar in the spare room.”
You're right its grim, but the only people who should feel ashamed are the Zero Covidiots like Pagel and co and the continental leaders who so badly mismanaged the pandemic and refused to learn how to live with the virus during the summer.
Emperor Turhan: I would very much like to have seen a Vorlon.
[he closes his eyes; when he reopens them, Kosh is standing over him]
Emperor Turhan: How will this end?
Kosh: In fire.
If everyone in Europe gets omicron over the next few months, yet suffer relatively few deaths and long-term issues in a largely vaccinated population, could they be said to have been right all along?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928
You Have No Idea How Hard It Is to Get a Hamster Drunk
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/12/alcohol-consumption-hamster-drunk/621125
🤣🤣🤣