Betting wise - I think we should consider that this evening revelations about revels will mean many more NShrop tories simply sit on their hands on a cold and windy thursday next week.
Now maybe the postal vote will take them over the line, but...
Before the vaccinations we needed the lockdowns, now most of us have been vaccinated we don't.
The divide over lockdowns is now a left v right, statist v private liberty one across most of the world. Trump and the GOP, Salvini, Bolsonaro, ACT in New Zealand, Tice, Fox and increasingly Boris v Biden, the Democrats, the Social Democrats, Labour and the socialist left
Absolute nonsense, NPIs are a tool, and one the government itself is apparently about to pull the trigger on again.
You are quite simply a nutter.
There is a certain commonality of the new line between Philip and HYUFD, which is slightly unusual. Is this the new spin ?
HYUFD has suddenly become a libertarian. I can't think why. Only thing that springs to mind is defending the indefensible.
I am not a libertarian, I am a Conservative.
However I am not a statist, socialist, authoritarian either
Oh come off it HYUFD you are definitely authoritarian, certainly a lot more than me and I obeyed the rules last Christmas.
Anyone who can’t sleep, just an hour until the cricket is on TV
I've got Sky but really don't fancy paying £30 for BT Sport for a month given most of it will be past bedtime anyway.
So irritating, does anyone know of any good deals so I could get BT Sport for just a single month and the cancel it again?
No I can't help but for some reason I still get BT Sport for free via my BT Broadband - not sure if that's standard or an oversight.
This is the issue with tv streaming - all this competition was supposed to work for the consumer but the net effect is you have to subscribe to Sky, Netflix, BT Sport, Disney, Amazon Prime etc etc to see everything. Ridiculous.
This is ideological now. For the double vaccinated the risk of death or even hospitalisation from Omnicron from all the evidence we have is tiny. For the unvacinnated it isn't but they made their choice.
Boris must the the PM of freedom, keeping the churches, shops, pubs, cinemas, concert halls and arenas and football stadiums open throughout Christmas and winter. He must be the PN of liberty against Starmer lockdowns and authoritarianism
You have lost the plot entirely. You now want to make interventions to fight a pandemic "ideological" in order to defend Boris? How about following the scientists and medics and doing what is right, not doing what will make hard-liners happy.
In your own way you are as mad as any MAGA-hatted Trumper.
Before the vaccinations we needed the lockdowns, now most of us have been vaccinated we don't.
The divide over lockdowns is now a left v right, statist v private liberty one across most of the world. Trump and the GOP, Salvini, Bolsonaro, ACT in New Zealand, Tice, Fox and increasingly Boris v Biden, the Democrats, the Social Democrats, Labour and the socialist left
No it isn’t - major labour voting cities are buzzing, Tory voting small towns are not.
Absolutely right. Revealed preference shows that most covid doves are from Labour areas, hawks from Tory ones. But it’s not party political divide among the public, the main determinant seems to be age and geography, big cities need people and activity and a much more dovish.
Adam Wagner on Newsnight (lawyer) saying there may be some get out wrt Crown property. Apparently the rules didn't apply or some such.
It’s a political issue of setting an example and practicing what you preach, not a legal issue of whether there’s a loophole that will get you off.
The royal family stayed in London during the war not because they were objectively at risk, given the security of their shelter, but because they were then seen as sharing the privations of the ordinary man or woman.
Totally agree.
This could be Johnson's worst week in power by the end.
All down to Starmer tomorrow to send all barrels blasting in.
Maybe he could be self isolating and let Angela Rayner or Reeves do the hard yards?
You have spotted the one flaw in the cunning plan.
Adam Wagner on Newsnight (lawyer) saying there may be some get out wrt Crown property. Apparently the rules didn't apply or some such.
It’s a political issue of setting an example and practicing what you preach, not a legal issue of whether there’s a loophole that will get you off.
The royal family stayed in London during the war not because they were objectively at risk, given the security of their shelter, but because they were then seen as sharing the privations of the ordinary man or woman.
Totally agree.
This could be Johnson's worst week in power by the end.
All down to Starmer tomorrow to send all barrels blasting in.
Maybe he could be self isolating and let Angela Rayner or Reeves do the hard yards?
You have spotted the one flaw in the cunning plan.
I am getting really sick of this "South Africa was punished not applauded" narrative. When UK had their variant, the world reacted the same, when Brazil had their variant the world reacted the same, when India had their variant the world reacted the same.
When China was the problem, we didn't, that is half the reason the world is in this mess.
Of course a century ago the Spanish took the rap for THAT pandemic, just because their newspapers were permitted to report it, unlike those in belligerent nations.
However, they DID have something to do with the Spanish pox IIRC?
And what exactly IS "la maladie anglaise" anyway? Appears to cover a WIDE range of sicknesses!
The Downing Street Party, if it happened, is bloody stupid, hypocritical, indefensible . . . and a year old and I really couldn't care less.
Had the story broken a year ago I'd be bothered, but now I'm bothered about what's actually happening today.
I said last week that my daughter's Nativity* has been cancelled by the school. Told tonight that her Christingle at the Church* with the Brownies has been cancelled. And some f***ers want us to go back into lockdown and disrupt her education all over again.
Quite frankly whether someone got pissed twelve months ago is simply not on my radar. Whether my daughter's education is going to be fucked around with all over again is making me pissed now. Enough is enough, we have to put Covid worries behind us and let the NHS do its best and left life move on. Let kids be kids and let them have an education and if that means the virus spreads and people die then people frigging die. But no lockdowns, no restrictions, let people live. Let people have an education.
* Please don't reply with any anti-religion stuff. I'm an atheist, but I'm not forcing my atheism on her and she enjoys Brownies and was looking forward to the Church Service with the Christingle.
Before the vaccinations we needed the lockdowns, now most of us have been vaccinated we don't.
The divide over lockdowns is now a left v right, statist v private liberty one across most of the world. Trump and the GOP, Salvini, Bolsonaro, ACT in New Zealand, Tice, Fox and increasingly Boris v Biden, the Democrats, the Social Democrats, Labour and the socialist left
Absolute nonsense, NPIs are a tool, and one the government itself is apparently about to pull the trigger on again.
You are quite simply a nutter.
There is a certain commonality of the new line between Philip and HYUFD, which is slightly unusual. Is this the new spin ?
HYUFD has suddenly become a libertarian. I can't think why. Only thing that springs to mind is defending the indefensible.
I am not a libertarian, I am a Conservative.
However I am not a statist, socialist, authoritarian either
Far be it for me to pick a fight at this time of night, HYUFD, and while the government's travails are feeling so well-deserved and enjoyable, but I have to say what has occasionally sounded like your plans to send the tanks into Edinburgh in the event of secession haven't always sounded that anti-authoritarian to me.
I am a Conservative not a libertarian, that means preserving the Union at all costs and not giving endless referendums. I am not a socialist either
I wonder if what Boris really did at Christmas 2020 will come to light? Remember that he was repeatedly asked about what he was planning at the time, if somone knows he lied again that might be the final nail. It would certainly be what I'd want to save for last if I was a journalist.
Provided Boris was not at this party he will get away with it. However he must ensure no more lockdowns of any description, no restrictions on Christmas and no restrictions on this year's Christmas parties at all.
He must be the PM of freedom from further restrictions now most of us are vaccinated. That is the way to get around it, if he becomes that he can be the PM of liberty and Starmer the PM of more authoritarian lockdowns. Hence no hypocrisy
Well, he's certainly going to struggle to persuade Britain to cancel all our xmas plans now.
But tbh Chris Whitty is already saying that UK public will just stick two fingers up to any xmas 'no family' lockdown.
January is another matter.
Lockdown looks nailed on for January with Omicron rampant so unpleasantness nailed on all round 😡😡😡
You’ve been saying that for the past six months!!
Unfortunately it looks like I am heading to be right.
If by any unlikely chance I am wrong I shall be very pleased. 👍
You are completely and utterly wrong. Again.
No lockdowns, not now, not ever again. They are never, ever to be repeated.
How are lockdowns going to be funded? Is @londonpubman expecting a return of the furlough scheme?
Hopefully not. It costs wealthy self-made people like me cos it pushes up inflation. Companies can pay from it out of retained profits and individuals from savings.
I am bored of paying for handouts for other people.
So you advocate the state preventing people working without compensating them? You are quite mad.
Typical Labour wanting the State to pay for everything ❤️
I don’t, don’t be moronic. I want to let people work for a living. You are the one agitating for lockdowns, I’m not. If the state prevents people working by its own action then it needs to compensate then.
I wonder if what Boris really did at Christmas 2020 will come to light? Remember that he was repeatedly asked about what he was planning at the time, if somone knows he lied again that might be the final nail. It would certainly be what I'd want to save for last if I was a journalist.
Provided Boris was not at this party he will get away with it. However he must ensure no more lockdowns of any description, no restrictions on Christmas and no restrictions on this year's Christmas parties at all.
He must be the PM of freedom from further restrictions now most of us are vaccinated. That is the way to get around it, if he becomes that he can be the PM of liberty and Starmer the PM of more authoritarian lockdowns. Hence no hypocrisy
Well, he's certainly going to struggle to persuade Britain to cancel all our xmas plans now.
But tbh Chris Whitty is already saying that UK public will just stick two fingers up to any xmas 'no family' lockdown.
January is another matter.
Lockdown looks nailed on for January with Omicron rampant so unpleasantness nailed on all round 😡😡😡
You’ve been saying that for the past six months!!
Unfortunately it looks like I am heading to be right.
If by any unlikely chance I am wrong I shall be very pleased. 👍
You are completely and utterly wrong. Again.
No lockdowns, not now, not ever again. They are never, ever to be repeated.
Just crunch the numbers. We are already plateauing on ~40-50k cases a day. Double or triple that with Omicron?
it is not sustainable, that means 1000s going into hospital every day, in the middle of winter, and that is presuming Omicron IS milder. If it is as bad as delta (and breaks through immunity) lockdown as we know it might not even be enough. What happens then? Fuck knows
Is the disease already endemic in South Africa? They have 25% vaccination rate and the hospitals don't appear to be collapsing under the strain. We'll see but I'm still more inclined to think that omicron represents the beginning of the end of the pandemic rather than the beginning of the end.
The good news is that it does *appear* to be milder (but we can't be sure, there are many unknowns, it might be the patient profile - younger, fitter, for now).
But even a milder variant which causes huge numbers to fall sick, and many of them to succumb to hospitalisation, is a grim prospect
The latest report from this country was that 0% of omicron patients were in hospital.
This was the case in the UK when the "Wuhan Flu" first emerged in January 2020. Small story in China, no one sick in Britain
It is the nature of pandemics, like housefires, that they start small and unnoticed, and then suddenly - boom - your fucking living room is ablaze
Look, I hope I am wrong. There is more than anecdotal evidence, now, that Omicron is milder in its outcomes. That's great. But it is not enough, by itself, to outweigh the danger of Omicron's extra infectivity and its capacity to break through prior immunity, natural or vaxxed.
If that SA preprint is right, even 2x Pfizer is not enough. You need the booster too
Very large drop in the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine, but the combination vaccination plus prior infection seems to provide effective immunity (which, selfishly, is good news for me).
This is ideological now. For the double vaccinated the risk of death or even hospitalisation from Omnicron from all the evidence we have is tiny. For the unvacinnated it isn't but they made their choice.
Boris must the the PM of freedom, keeping the churches, shops, pubs, cinemas, concert halls and arenas and football stadiums open throughout Christmas and winter. He must be the PN of liberty against Starmer lockdowns and authoritarianism
You have lost the plot entirely. You now want to make interventions to fight a pandemic "ideological" in order to defend Boris? How about following the scientists and medics and doing what is right, not doing what will make hard-liners happy.
In your own way you are as mad as any MAGA-hatted Trumper.
Before the vaccinations we needed the lockdowns, now most of us have been vaccinated we don't.
The divide over lockdowns is now a left v right, statist v private liberty one across most of the world. Trump and the GOP, Salvini, Bolsonaro, ACT in New Zealand, Tice, Fox and increasingly Boris v Biden, the Democrats, the Social Democrats, Labour and the socialist left
No it isn't. Much as you'd like it to be. How about Anabobazina v Pubman? Or Sweden v Australia?
In Sweden there was a rare exception of all sides opposed to full lockdown. In Australia though the Conservative PM has largely opened up now but the tightest restrictions have tended to be in Labor controlled Victoria
So you're saying it isn't ideological.
No it is ideological, in virtually every country now bar Sweden where most of the population have been double vaccinated the right wants to open up more than the left and the left wants to lockdown more than the right. The same is true here.
Sweden the only exception as all sides agreed never to fully lockdown
Then explain why Conservative towns are full of masks and Covid rule nazis and Labour voting cities are full of packed restaurants gigs and night clubs
They aren't, there are more masks being worn in Labour Oxford, Islington, Hampstead and Cambridge than in Tory towns in Essex and the RedWall. The pubs and restaurants are full in the latter too
What is interesting is not just the "one law for them, one law for us" aspect. That is arrogant enough.
It's also that they feel they shouldn't even be asked questions let alone be expected to answer them.
The government just gives the impression that it ought to be beyond any sort of scrutiny at all.
A close friend of mine, who sadly passed away in January, was a serial love cheat - and he always said, “if you ever get caught just deny, deny, deny”… and it always worked!
If your friend hadn't passed away, I'd have assumed your mate was Boris Johnson.
Can they actually do that and not get sacked? They are not employed to do that!
To make jokes?
Pretty sure that's exactly what Ant and Dec are employed to do!
The angry V sign.
Probably been too cynical here but…
I’m a Celebrity is one of A and D’s main pay cheques, in fact maybe the most. This year it’s been a disaster, ratings are significantly down and there has been a lot of talk whether this should be the show’s last year and if it is “past it”. While it pulls in the money for ITV, the latter is looking to cut costs and also there was a feeling The X Factor should have cut earlier…
…so what better to creat some headlines, get yourself back in the papers and generate some audiences than doing something like this. They won’t get sacked (the CEO of ITV is ex-Guardian and they all hate BJ). It’s a safe bet for them to do
I wonder if what Boris really did at Christmas 2020 will come to light? Remember that he was repeatedly asked about what he was planning at the time, if somone knows he lied again that might be the final nail. It would certainly be what I'd want to save for last if I was a journalist.
Provided Boris was not at this party he will get away with it. However he must ensure no more lockdowns of any description, no restrictions on Christmas and no restrictions on this year's Christmas parties at all.
He must be the PM of freedom from further restrictions now most of us are vaccinated. That is the way to get around it, if he becomes that he can be the PM of liberty and Starmer the PM of more authoritarian lockdowns. Hence no hypocrisy
Well, he's certainly going to struggle to persuade Britain to cancel all our xmas plans now.
But tbh Chris Whitty is already saying that UK public will just stick two fingers up to any xmas 'no family' lockdown.
January is another matter.
Lockdown looks nailed on for January with Omicron rampant so unpleasantness nailed on all round 😡😡😡
You’ve been saying that for the past six months!!
Unfortunately it looks like I am heading to be right.
If by any unlikely chance I am wrong I shall be very pleased. 👍
You are completely and utterly wrong. Again.
No lockdowns, not now, not ever again. They are never, ever to be repeated.
Just crunch the numbers. We are already plateauing on ~40-50k cases a day. Double or triple that with Omicron?
it is not sustainable, that means 1000s going into hospital every day, in the middle of winter, and that is presuming Omicron IS milder. If it is as bad as delta (and breaks through immunity) lockdown as we know it might not even be enough. What happens then? Fuck knows
Is the disease already endemic in South Africa? They have 25% vaccination rate and the hospitals don't appear to be collapsing under the strain. We'll see but I'm still more inclined to think that omicron represents the beginning of the end of the pandemic rather than the beginning of the end.
The good news is that it does *appear* to be milder (but we can't be sure, there are many unknowns, it might be the patient profile - younger, fitter, for now).
But even a milder variant which causes huge numbers to fall sick, and many of them to succumb to hospitalisation, is a grim prospect
The latest report from this country was that 0% of omicron patients were in hospital.
This was the case in the UK when the "Wuhan Flu" first emerged in January 2020. Small story in China, no one sick in Britain
It is the nature of pandemics, like housefires, that they start small and unnoticed, and then suddenly - boom - your fucking living room is ablaze
Look, I hope I am wrong. There is more than anecdotal evidence, now, that Omicron is milder in its outcomes. That's great. But it is not enough, by itself, to outweigh the danger of Omicron's extra infectivity and its capacity to break through prior immunity, natural or vaxxed.
If that SA preprint is right, even 2x Pfizer is not enough. You need the booster too
Harder to get public support for a lockdown for a milder virus, regardless of its transmissibility. Most people will simply figure “well I’m going to catch it anyway, what does it matter whether I get it it in three weeks or three months?”. Tim Spector was pondering this earlier - milder/faster is better for the individual but not necessarily for the country.
Can they actually do that and not get sacked? They are not employed to do that!
To make jokes?
Pretty sure that's exactly what Ant and Dec are employed to do!
The angry V sign.
Probably been too cynical here but…
I’m a Celebrity is one of A and D’s main pay cheques, in fact maybe the most. This year it’s been a disaster, ratings are significantly down and there has been a lot of talk whether this should be the show’s last year and if it is “past it”. While it pulls in the money for ITV, the latter is looking to cut costs and also there was a feeling The X Factor should have cut earlier…
…so what better to creat some headlines, get yourself back in the papers and generate some audiences than doing something like this. They won’t get sacked (the CEO of ITV is ex-Guardian and they all hate BJ). It’s a safe bet for them to do
I know what you mean. But when Morecambe and Wise and Two Ronnies did political jokes against politicians they were funny, not just anger? Even Woody Allen’s angry and biting delivered “I shot a deer” is still a joke to laugh at, with really bizarre funny bits. But Ant and Dec didn’t do a joke.
I ❤️ Ant n Dec. ima IS Ant n Dec. I hope they don’t get in any trouble. But what was the joke? Ant’s spitting rage very well set it up for biting satirical quip from Dec, but all he did was angry V sign.
As I said earlier, where this breaking news seemed funnier earlier in evening, by 10 o’clock news where they ask victims spokeswoman for comment, and then go on to expose the lameness and arrogance of this weeks cover up - it’s just sad and unfunny.
Up yours Boris you arrogant cunt is spot on. But anger, sad and unfunny should really be kept to its right place, not out of place where you expect something witty or cheery?
Before the vaccinations we needed the lockdowns, now most of us have been vaccinated we don't.
The divide over lockdowns is now a left v right, statist v private liberty one across most of the world. Trump and the GOP, Salvini, Bolsonaro, ACT in New Zealand, Tice, Fox and increasingly Boris v Biden, the Democrats, the Social Democrats, Labour and the socialist left
Absolute nonsense, NPIs are a tool, and one the government itself is apparently about to pull the trigger on again.
You are quite simply a nutter.
There is a certain commonality of the new line between Philip and HYUFD, which is slightly unusual. Is this the new spin ?
HYUFD has suddenly become a libertarian. I can't think why. Only thing that springs to mind is defending the indefensible.
I am not a libertarian, I am a Conservative.
However I am not a statist, socialist, authoritarian either
Far be it for me to pick a fight at this time of night, HYUFD, and while the government's travails are feeling so well-deserved and enjoyable, but I have to say what has occasionally sounded like your plans to send the tanks into Edinburgh in the event of secession haven't always sounded that anti-authoritarian to me.
I am a Conservative not a libertarian, that means preserving the Union at all costs and not giving endless referendums. I am not a socialist either
Can they actually do that and not get sacked? They are not employed to do that!
To make jokes?
Pretty sure that's exactly what Ant and Dec are employed to do!
The angry V sign.
Probably been too cynical here but…
I’m a Celebrity is one of A and D’s main pay cheques, in fact maybe the most. This year it’s been a disaster, ratings are significantly down and there has been a lot of talk whether this should be the show’s last year and if it is “past it”. While it pulls in the money for ITV, the latter is looking to cut costs and also there was a feeling The X Factor should have cut earlier…
…so what better to creat some headlines, get yourself back in the papers and generate some audiences than doing something like this. They won’t get sacked (the CEO of ITV is ex-Guardian and they all hate BJ). It’s a safe bet for them to do
I know what you mean. But when Morecambe and Wise and Two Ronnies did political jokes against politicians they were funny, not just anger? Even Woody Allen’s angry and biting delivered “I shot a deer” is still a joke to laugh at, with really bizarre funny bits. But Ant and Dec didn’t do a joke.
I ❤️ Ant n Dec. ima IS Ant n Dec. I hope they don’t get in any trouble. But what was the joke? Ant’s spitting rage very well set it up for biting satirical quip from Dec, but all he did was angry V sign.
As I said earlier, where this breaking news seemed funnier earlier in evening, by 10 o’clock news where they ask victims spokeswoman for comment, and then go on to expose the lameness and arrogance of this weeks cover up - it’s just sad and unfunny.
Up yours Boris you arrogant cunt is spot on. But anger, sad and unfunny should really be kept to its right place, not out of place where you expect something witty or cheery?
Maybe I am wrong again. I’ll shut up.
In case you haven’t seen it. It’s so funny I love it.
Comments
Now maybe the postal vote will take them over the line, but...
We need some of the attendees to go on the record. And share their photos.
However, they DID have something to do with the Spanish pox IIRC?
And what exactly IS "la maladie anglaise" anyway? Appears to cover a WIDE range of sicknesses!
*don't tell me what to do
https://twitter.com/sigallab/status/1468325159501287434
Very large drop in the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine, but the combination vaccination plus prior infection seems to provide effective immunity (which, selfishly, is good news for me).
The pubs and restaurants are full in the latter too
I’m a Celebrity is one of A and D’s main pay cheques, in fact maybe the most. This year it’s been a disaster, ratings are significantly down and there has been a lot of talk whether this should be the show’s last year and if it is “past it”. While it pulls in the money for ITV, the latter is looking to cut costs and also there was a feeling The X Factor should have cut earlier…
…so what better to creat some headlines, get yourself back in the papers and generate some audiences than doing something like this. They won’t get sacked (the CEO of ITV is ex-Guardian and they all hate BJ). It’s a safe bet for them to do
I ❤️ Ant n Dec. ima IS Ant n Dec. I hope they don’t get in any trouble. But what was the joke? Ant’s spitting rage very well set it up for biting satirical quip from Dec, but all he did was angry V sign.
As I said earlier, where this breaking news seemed funnier earlier in evening, by 10 o’clock news where they ask victims spokeswoman for comment, and then go on to expose the lameness and arrogance of this weeks cover up - it’s just sad and unfunny.
Up yours Boris you arrogant cunt is spot on. But anger, sad and unfunny should really be kept to its right place, not out of place where you expect something witty or cheery?
Maybe I am wrong again. I’ll shut up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmnLRVWgnXU