Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
You may want to look in to what Eric Zemmour is saying on the matters of Islam and illegal immigration.
He is an idealistic utopian liberal compared to the recent actions of the Chinese Communist party.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
"Much of the poorer part of the world is still susceptible to the disease, and as long as it is, many more people will die, and the risk of new and more dangerous variants will remain. In May 2020, the estimated cost of vaccinating the entire planet was $25 billion. That’s a lot of money. On the other hand, $20.2 billion is what the US military spent on air-conditioning each year in Afghanistan and Iraq. It might turn out to have been a very stupid $25 billion for the rich world to have saved. Covid is still here, 44 per cent of the world’s population is unvaccinated, and the lock is still rattling."
That $25bn figure looks awfully low. The cheapest vaccine available is the AZ at about $3 a shot, so two shots for 7.5bn people comes out at $45bn just for the shots themselves, plus all the staff and infrastructure required to deliver them into everyone’s arms. The actual cost is going to be well north of $100bn, once vaccine mix, distribution and delivery are all factored in.
If everyone needs three shots, it’s probably north of $250bn total, an order of magnitude higher than the estimate.
Being somewhat cynical I think the best way to have got vaccines into the arms of the developing world would have been if the UN had paired up “rich nations/vaccine producing nations” with groups of developing nations in proportion to size of population and said - you are responsible for vaccines in these countries.
You would suddenly have, for example, the EU, UK, US, China in a competition to show whose best (as we saw with domestic roll-out) and no doubt suddenly lots of resources would be applied for logistics, vaccines, staffing in the countries they are responsible for as they would all want the kudos of being the best and wouldn’t want to be shown up on the world stage…..
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
Some people now trying to block RNLI from launching to pick up drowning immigrants:
Now, that clearly isn't Tory policy - far from it.
But... the Tories facilitate and encourage such extreme actions in two ways:
1. The rhetoric from Patel and others, including the proposed law change to make it and offence to assist a refugee/illegal immigrant even fo no gain. 2. The absolute abject failure to do anything to actually solve the problem. Nothing. Zilch.
"Much of the poorer part of the world is still susceptible to the disease, and as long as it is, many more people will die, and the risk of new and more dangerous variants will remain. In May 2020, the estimated cost of vaccinating the entire planet was $25 billion. That’s a lot of money. On the other hand, $20.2 billion is what the US military spent on air-conditioning each year in Afghanistan and Iraq. It might turn out to have been a very stupid $25 billion for the rich world to have saved. Covid is still here, 44 per cent of the world’s population is unvaccinated, and the lock is still rattling."
That $25bn figure looks awfully low. The cheapest vaccine available is the AZ at about $3 a shot, so two shots for 7.5bn people comes out at $45bn just for the shots themselves, plus all the staff and infrastructure required to deliver them into everyone’s arms. The actual cost is going to be well north of $100bn, once vaccine mix, distribution and delivery are all factored in.
If everyone needs three shots, it’s probably north of $250bn total, an order of magnitude higher than the estimate.
I think the problem is not just money, but also health infrastructure for vaccination. Its buckling in the developed world. Less developed countries will just have to take it on the chin.
Yes, well said. Plenty of idiotic commentators implying that all we need to do is send Africa a big box of Pfizer vaccines and the problem goes away. Deployment is a huge issue.
Yes, but if we have a huge problem it makes sense to tackle it seriously, which so far we haven't, much. If one of the major powers offered to send sufficient vaccines and staff to inject them, even one region at a time, in exchange for enthusiastic support in the UN, I suspect a good many developing countries would think that a pretty good deal - more appealing and cheaper than some of the other ways the major powers try to win friends. Clearly it would still need local staff in charge, but having a row of Chinese or Russian or American assistants jabbing away should be potentially acceptable. Not all developing countries are devoid of capacity - South Africa, for instance, could manage an operation like that even if they are currently overwhelmed.
Saying it's all too difficult so let's just throw the surplus vaccines away seems to me criminal.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
If a shop or premises makes it a condition of entry to wear a mask I will do it, because it’s the right thing to do as it is their business and they set the rules. It’s just common courtesy.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe"
The pursuit of safety is like a cancer that is slowly killing western civilisation.
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
Yes, I think the issue is about common decency, which is not the preserve of one political party but cuts across them all. There's no doubt that the tabloids often dehumanise refugees, and the language of many people is depressing - illegals, criminals, deport them all and so on. And Patel hasn't done enough to counter such rhetoric, which should be left to the likes of Farage. All decent people, whatever their political views, should recognise that those crossing the Channel are above all human.
I don't want to support any political party that dehumanises and demonises refugees, asylum seekers or economic migrants. If that means that we lose some votes from those who vilify such people, then so be it.
Dr. de Oliveira said he was worried less about a vaccine-resistant variant emerging in South Africa than, for example, a pocket of the United States with untreated H.I.V., low vaccination coverage and a weaker surveillance network than South Africa has.
“The chances are we’d find it first,” he said with a grim laugh.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
If a shop or premises makes it a condition of entry to wear a mask I will do it, because it’s the right thing to do as it is their business and they set the rules. It’s just common courtesy.
well if you think it is common courtesy to force people to wear masks I disagree with the definition . TBF is not shops that are enforcing the lastest covid theatre edict its the government being weak in the face of covid obsessives . Most shops are hinting they do not want the rules hence supermarkets saying they will not enforce the rule
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe"
Vaccination was* the way out. We always knew that a minority will refuse. We always knew that any vaccine is not 100% effective. We always knew that Covid isn't going away and that viruses mutate. Yet here we are again.
* I say "was" because trust in the vaccines has clearly been dropped now. Get vaccinated and boosted and you still have to comply with Covid theatre and the tests to return to your own country. All because the government wants to cover its arse. The companies making these Covid tests must be coining it in again.
And - the hypocrisy - we claim to be environmentalists yet the plastic waste generated by these tests! I took a LFT yesterday and couldn't believe the non-bio-gradable waste that each test generates. Plus many masks contain single-use plastic.
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
Not unless one was specifically approved for the job.
AIUI the issue was reaching the pedals and seeing the mirrors at the same time, so a booster seat wouldn't have solved the problem.
Having mirrors designed to adjust properly would have done, but that would have required some forethought on the part of the designers.
Absolutely ridiculous if that's the reason. The bus designers should have been well aware of the pitfalls of designing for the average person (er, man, no doubt)...
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
If a shop or premises makes it a condition of entry to wear a mask I will do it, because it’s the right thing to do as it is their business and they set the rules. It’s just common courtesy.
I see your point, put do you think it is courteous of the business-owner to demand this, especially when the punter is vaccinated? When will they stop demanding this? I'd shop elsewhere if other options were available.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe"
The pursuit of safety is like a cancer that is slowly killing western civilisation.
Well done then to Grenfell, Boeing, etc. for bucking the trend.
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Unverified claims from a random Instagram account, need more proof than that.
If true heads should roll, but they won’t.
The number of reports to the coastguard just doesn’t add up 90 reports after at most 5 people would be looking into it.
But the simple fact is going to sea in a small boat is a risk..
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe"
The pursuit of safety is like a cancer that is slowly killing western civilisation.
Well done then to Grenfell, Boeing, etc. for bucking the trend.
Well Grenfell sort of proves the point that its all talk ,non-jobs and theatre and not in reality
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
Yes, I think the issue is about common decency, which is not the preserve of one political party but cuts across them all. There's no doubt that the tabloids often dehumanise refugees, and the language of many people is depressing - illegals, criminals, deport them all and so on. And Patel hasn't done enough to counter such rhetoric, which should be left to the likes of Farage. All decent people, whatever their political views, should recognise that those crossing the Channel are above all human.
I don't want to support any political party that dehumanises and demonises refugees, asylum seekers or economic migrants. If that means that we lose some votes from those who vilify such people, then so be it.
It is quite possible to have a humanitarian policy that seeks to have no illegal immigration at all and applies zero tolerance to any illegal crossings.
Unfortunately we have absurd policies from both the left and right - the left which apparently want to encourage extremely dangerous trips by migrants without thinking through how they can be accommodated when they arrive; and the right who prefer dodgy rhetoric and floating fantasy solutions which they cannot deliver (wave machines?) without doing very much at all about the situation in reality.
That might be a relevant point, Mr Darkage, if that were the only issue that voters were concerned about. However, I understand that voters in North Shropshire are also concerned about the deterioration in local services and the way they are taken for granted by the Conservatives.
So if a politician comes along and says effectively that all human beings matter, that all lives matter - then this is an important message. They themselves also matter to the Lib Dems. It is quite different from the Conservative message, which says that the only people who matter are the stinking rich and their chums.
"...all lives matter ..." 😀
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have elderly parents myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember, when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
good luck in your mask wearing forever as covid is endemic like flu
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
Thank goodness Tories and Unionists never indulge in that kind of behaviour (I couldn’t find the photoshop of Sturgeon in an SS uniform so beloved by your fruitier fellow travellers, I suspect twitter may have banned it). Motes and beams indeed.
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
good luck in your mask wearing forever as covid is endemic like flu
He’s a clown. Pointless analogy too. Best ignored.
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
You'll be telling me next they were all wearing seatbelts.
What snowflakes - killing the West with their excessive safety culture!
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
80% stuck to the speed limit? Bloody Sunday drivers
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
80% stuck to the speed limit? Bloody Sunday drivers
Come on, we all know Sunday drivers never get near the speed limit (except when going through a village where they stick to their 35mph regardless).
The important quote “And I've been hearing the feedback now for too long and it's now time to act.”
Sorry but once you heard the feedback you should have acted then. Finding vans at this time of year expect to pay the full retail price of the van in this market quite possibly per week.
Not unless one was specifically approved for the job.
AIUI the issue was reaching the pedals and seeing the mirrors at the same time, so a booster seat wouldn't have solved the problem.
Having mirrors designed to adjust properly would have done, but that would have required some forethought on the part of the designers.
Absolutely ridiculous if that's the reason. The bus designers should have been well aware of the pitfalls of designing for the average person (er, man, no doubt)...
I'm surprised it's a problem. My Renault Megane is legal despite the fact the A pillars significantly obscure visibility in certain situations, such as right hand bends and turning left onto a wide, busy road.
I was in Nottignham on Saturday so busy will all the xmas shoppers and there was the monty python ridiculous level of reality of people (90% ish) wearing masks in uncrowded little niche type shops and then presumably the same people crowded into a Macdonalds waiting for their food unmasked . An alien would conclude Macdonalds has some air that means coivd cannot be transmitted .I on the other hand concluded people hate masks ,think they are useless but generally obey laws. We need to get people to stop obeying busy body laws like mask wearing now
That might be a relevant point, Mr Darkage, if that were the only issue that voters were concerned about. However, I understand that voters in North Shropshire are also concerned about the deterioration in local services and the way they are taken for granted by the Conservatives.
So if a politician comes along and says effectively that all human beings matter, that all lives matter - then this is an important message. They themselves also matter to the Lib Dems. It is quite different from the Conservative message, which says that the only people who matter are the stinking rich and their chums.
"...all lives matter ..." 😀
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have an elderly parent myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember ,when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
I expect Helen Morgan will win.
With a few find-replaces, you're also describing Brexit there.
I micro-target policies. You fail to prioritise. They are just saying what you want to hear.
No I don't think so.
There were broken bottles in the Brexit message. There was hard glass with jagged edges that cut and made you bleed.
Not just the cotton wool of a LibDem by-election campaign.
There was no attempt to appeal to absolutely everyone in the Brexiteers' message (though it may have been dishonest in parts).
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's a question around 'slippery slopes' surely. And, perchance, 'crying wolf'!
It's contemptible and shows the usual lack of insight. In fairness the liked comment is more extreme in this than her own and I do not disagree that we are struggling to remember the humanity of those willing to risk their lives to come here. But the complacent and ignorant othering of political opponents is a dangerous step down the road that the US has gone far too far down making an extremely unhappy and ungovernable country. This needs to stop if we are to address difficult problems like immigration effectively.
You are right there, Mr L. This matter arose because some Conservatives thought they could use some tweets of the Lib Dem candidate in the upcoming byelection against her. What she was doing was recognising our common humanity - and this is I think your position in this latest post.
The official Conservative line - as presented here on PB - is that some refugees (from the past, where it is now safe to sympathise with them) are worthy of consideration, while others (now, in the present) are not. They are just a threat, to be "weaponised" for the benefit of the current Conservative campaign.
The fact that the Lib Dem candidate sees heartlessness towards fellow human beings both then and now is a fair point for her to make, I would have thought.
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
At what point does the world acknowledge what seems obvious: this virus in now endemic?
Would love to be proven wrong by any boffins out there. (Foxy?)
I have no idea what happens in terms of duration.
Omicron will be everywhere by Christmas, the only question is how many get sick. There ain't no slack in the system, and after nearly 2 years staff are sorely depleted.
Surely England needs to look strategically at NHS staff pay and conditions? You are heavily dependent on this group of workers to keep the economy, and thus society, affluent and robust. And yet they are generally treated appallingly by the Westminster government.
I’m sure most rational people would love to see the overall tax burden go up a couple of points, IF the money went straight to NHS staff.
If staff are “sorely depleted” after only 2 years of this, what is the situation going to look like in 10 years time? New talent must be attracted into the courses and into the job vacancies. Great pay and conditions is a given when young people look at their career options. They are (quite rightly) a fussy generation.
That might be a relevant point, Mr Darkage, if that were the only issue that voters were concerned about. However, I understand that voters in North Shropshire are also concerned about the deterioration in local services and the way they are taken for granted by the Conservatives.
So if a politician comes along and says effectively that all human beings matter, that all lives matter - then this is an important message. They themselves also matter to the Lib Dems. It is quite different from the Conservative message, which says that the only people who matter are the stinking rich and their chums.
"...all lives matter ..." 😀
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have elderly parents myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember, when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
I expect Helen Morgan will win.
The Lib Dem party approach to by elections is fundamentally dishonest but good politics. I think you are right and they will win.
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
No because my Mcdonalds example show people actually dont believe in masks .I am sceptical of opinion polls on policy issues because they can be manipulated or people just like being virtuous in them when in reality and (free) action they are not .
As for brexit I have no idea what you are talking about - I voted REMAIN
The important quote “And I've been hearing the feedback now for too long and it's now time to act.”
Sorry but once you heard the feedback you should have acted then. Finding vans at this time of year expect to pay the full retail price of the van in this market quite possibly per week.
A royal mail parcel was delivered to me last evening by a guy in civvies with a an ordinary van. Reckon they are out sourcing to white van man already.
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
80% stuck to the speed limit? Bloody Sunday drivers
Our part of the A1M has road works with a 50mph speed limit with average speed cameras attached.
As a press release has been sent to the local papers I will be doing 50 along there while the roadworks are in place rather than the 80+ most people do.
On topic yes Yvette could be in trouble in 2024 (or whenever) if the votes break the way you suggest. Equally the removal of the Corbyn factor and the shine coming off the 'Build Back Better' pledge could see lots of first time Tory voters returning to the fold. It's hard to predict which will happen this far out.
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
good luck in your mask wearing forever as covid is endemic like flu
Well, the point was subtler than you think. It was really a point about how lots of people on here seem enormously keen on commenting on whether or not people are following the rules on mask wearing, whereas you rarely see people talking in similar ways about other rules. I'm glad you jumped to masks, though, because I didn't mention them. I think you recognise the phenomenon too.
Genius!
Yes it’s pathetic the way people discuss, at length, controversial new rules that are a drastic change to all we’ve ever known, but don’t give the same energy or column inches to century old established parts of everyday living
I was in Nottignham on Saturday so busy will all the xmas shoppers and there was the monty python ridiculous level of reality of people (90% ish) wearing masks in uncrowded little niche type shops and then presumably the same people crowded into a Macdonalds waiting for their food unmasked . An alien would conclude Macdonalds has some air that means coivd cannot be transmitted .I on the other hand concluded people hate masks ,think they are useless but generally obey laws. We need to get people to stop obeying busy body laws like mask wearing now
This element of it all is absurd. I sat in a tea room crowded with mainly pensioners, tables less than a metre apart, no windows or doors open, staff not wearing masks (or apparently hairnets given the salad).
Most people are pretty unthinking about it all. They still trust the Prime Minister, what he says and his policies, when even this week he riffed on hand washing to stop covid. But you also have people who get angry and think others selfish for not masking up. And this division is almost certainly because rather than being shown leadership, we are all being left to come to the conclusion ourselves that covid is always gonna be around killing people and if you’re pretty unlucky you might be one of them.
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
10%? LOL. More like 1%.
The 1% being the likes of our friend HYUFD, who is presently, presumably, at Church and who will cite it as example of her unfitness to be in Parliament.
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Big if true, but it patently isn't. We know the incident happened near Calais, no way can that have been faked, so what are the Coastguard supposed to have been told? I can see on google maps that my cousin's boat in France has stopped moving?
I was in Nottignham on Saturday so busy will all the xmas shoppers and there was the monty python ridiculous level of reality of people (90% ish) wearing masks in uncrowded little niche type shops and then presumably the same people crowded into a Macdonalds waiting for their food unmasked . An alien would conclude Macdonalds has some air that means coivd cannot be transmitted .I on the other hand concluded people hate masks ,think they are useless but generally obey laws. We need to get people to stop obeying busy body laws like mask wearing now
Actually, I think the little niche shops are higher risk. They are smaller, and the proprietor more likely to be older. And it is probably the case that covid lingers in the air.
Whereas McDonald's is largely frequented and staffed by youngsters, and anyone who thinks a McDonald's burger is a foodstuff is a good target for natural selection.
As it happens I don't mind wearing a mask for short periods. The period I caught Covid I went to a few shops, and worked in a covid secure environment. So if mask-wearing slows things down, all to the good. With Rt near 1, you don't need to have much of an effect.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
I believe the standard analysis on here is that these people are just virtue signalling for the pollsters while breathing COVID in and out, day in day out sans masks. No doubt when polling says 75% of voters think Brexit is a stupendous clusterfuck a similar formulation will be cobbled together.
If there is no swing to Labour and RefUK don't pick up too many BXP voters then Cooper's seat could be a prospect for the Conservatives. However if Starmer is to have any chance of becoming PM it must be a solid hold for Labour.
In terms of leadership, if Starmer was replaced midway through the Parliament then Cooper or Reeves would likely be his replacement. If he stays leader until the next general election but loses it then Burnham would likely be added to the mix given he is likely to stand again for Parliament but only at the next election
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's a question around 'slippery slopes' surely. And, perchance, 'crying wolf'!
It's contemptible and shows the usual lack of insight. In fairness the liked comment is more extreme in this than her own and I do not disagree that we are struggling to remember the humanity of those willing to risk their lives to come here. But the complacent and ignorant othering of political opponents is a dangerous step down the road that the US has gone far too far down making an extremely unhappy and ungovernable country. This needs to stop if we are to address difficult problems like immigration effectively.
You are right there, Mr L. This matter arose because some Conservatives thought they could use some tweets of the Lib Dem candidate in the upcoming byelection against her. What she was doing was recognising our common humanity - and this is I think your position in this latest post.
The official Conservative line - as presented here on PB - is that some refugees (from the past, where it is now safe to sympathise with them) are worthy of consideration, while others (now, in the present) are not. They are just a threat, to be "weaponised" for the benefit of the current Conservative campaign.
The fact that the Lib Dem candidate sees heartlessness towards fellow human beings both then and now is a fair point for her to make, I would have thought.
If this is the strongest attack line the Tories have in a by-election taking place because one of their MPs resigned after being investigated for being paid to influence policy on behalf of a potential government supplier, whereupon the party whipped its members to vote to change the system to get him off the hook… well, I’d say she’s in with a chance.
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
10%? LOL. More like 1%.
The 1% being the likes of our friend HYUFD, who is presently, presumably, at Church and who will cite it as example of her unfitness to be in Parliament.
Back now and more Philip Thompson HIP obsessed than me
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
10%? LOL. More like 1%.
The 1% being the likes of our friend HYUFD, who is presently, presumably, at Church and who will cite it as example of her unfitness to be in Parliament.
The 1% being the likes of most people on PB.
The question then becomes who is the demos to whom she has to appeal.
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
10%? LOL. More like 1%.
HIPS were a classic example of government thinking they can always make things better by more regulation though
"Much of the poorer part of the world is still susceptible to the disease, and as long as it is, many more people will die, and the risk of new and more dangerous variants will remain. In May 2020, the estimated cost of vaccinating the entire planet was $25 billion. That’s a lot of money. On the other hand, $20.2 billion is what the US military spent on air-conditioning each year in Afghanistan and Iraq. It might turn out to have been a very stupid $25 billion for the rich world to have saved. Covid is still here, 44 per cent of the world’s population is unvaccinated, and the lock is still rattling."
That $25bn figure looks awfully low. The cheapest vaccine available is the AZ at about $3 a shot, so two shots for 7.5bn people comes out at $45bn just for the shots themselves, plus all the staff and infrastructure required to deliver them into everyone’s arms. The actual cost is going to be well north of $100bn, once vaccine mix, distribution and delivery are all factored in.
If everyone needs three shots, it’s probably north of $250bn total, an order of magnitude higher than the estimate.
Being somewhat cynical I think the best way to have got vaccines into the arms of the developing world would have been if the UN had paired up “rich nations/vaccine producing nations” with groups of developing nations in proportion to size of population and said - you are responsible for vaccines in these countries.
You would suddenly have, for example, the EU, UK, US, China in a competition to show whose best (as we saw with domestic roll-out) and no doubt suddenly lots of resources would be applied for logistics, vaccines, staffing in the countries they are responsible for as they would all want the kudos of being the best and wouldn’t want to be shown up on the world stage…..
I don't think that is necessarily a cynical view of things. From a simple practical point of view it deals with a lot of the problems inherent in typical aid programmes - that they are piecemeal, discontinuous, badly coordinated, etc.
If, say, Ireland had been paired with Sierra Leone, then the two countries would have been able to work in detail, in partnership, to work through the difficulties and fix them.
That might be a relevant point, Mr Darkage, if that were the only issue that voters were concerned about. However, I understand that voters in North Shropshire are also concerned about the deterioration in local services and the way they are taken for granted by the Conservatives.
So if a politician comes along and says effectively that all human beings matter, that all lives matter - then this is an important message. They themselves also matter to the Lib Dems. It is quite different from the Conservative message, which says that the only people who matter are the stinking rich and their chums.
"...all lives matter ..." 😀
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have an elderly parent myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember ,when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
I expect Helen Morgan will win.
With a few find-replaces, you're also describing Brexit there.
I micro-target policies. You fail to prioritise. They are just saying what you want to hear.
No I don't think so.
There were broken bottles in the Brexit message. There was hard glass with jagged edges that cut and made you bleed.
Not just the cotton wool of a LibDem by-election campaign.
There was no attempt to appeal to absolutely everyone in the Brexiteers' message (though it may have been dishonest in parts).
Come now, that's not even slightly true. I was told in earnest that the EU was a socialist superstate strangling freedoms, a neo-liberal enterprise run purely in the interests of big business, a racist cabal designed to keep brown people down, and a multicultural free-for-all destroying British values. The microtargetting was clever and effective. It worked. Now that genie is amongst the pigeons, you can't get it back in the tube.
I am not sure I agree, but even so there is a big difference.
The LibDems are a political party, allegedly with some unity of common philosophy and purpose.
The Brexiteers are a grouping from the far-Left (Corbyn and beyond) through the Centre to the far right (Farage and beyond). They do not have anything in common, other than dislike of the EU.
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
10%? LOL. More like 1%.
HIPS were a classic example of government thinking they can always make things better by more regulation though
The English house buying process is ridiculous. HIPS failed to solve the problem, but that is one area where I would be happy for governments of any colour rosette give it a go at fixing an archaic, unfair and stressful process.
I was in Nottignham on Saturday so busy will all the xmas shoppers and there was the monty python ridiculous level of reality of people (90% ish) wearing masks in uncrowded little niche type shops and then presumably the same people crowded into a Macdonalds waiting for their food unmasked . An alien would conclude Macdonalds has some air that means coivd cannot be transmitted .I on the other hand concluded people hate masks ,think they are useless but generally obey laws. We need to get people to stop obeying busy body laws like mask wearing now
Again,, this seems to be a case where mask anecdotes match their pre-existing viewpoints. I did some shopping in Huntingdon yesterday, and in five shops, I saw one person not wearing a mask (*). As far as I could see, everyone in the long lunchtime queue at Greggs was wearing them.
(*) A lady in Wilcos, who pushed into the queue two space behind me. Everyone was very British and did not complain.
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Big if true, but it patently isn't. We know the incident happened near Calais, no way can that have been faked, so what are the Coastguard supposed to have been told? I can see on google maps that my cousin's boat in France has stopped moving?
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's a question around 'slippery slopes' surely. And, perchance, 'crying wolf'!
It's contemptible and shows the usual lack of insight. In fairness the liked comment is more extreme in this than her own and I do not disagree that we are struggling to remember the humanity of those willing to risk their lives to come here. But the complacent and ignorant othering of political opponents is a dangerous step down the road that the US has gone far too far down making an extremely unhappy and ungovernable country. This needs to stop if we are to address difficult problems like immigration effectively.
You are right there, Mr L. This matter arose because some Conservatives thought they could use some tweets of the Lib Dem candidate in the upcoming byelection against her. What she was doing was recognising our common humanity - and this is I think your position in this latest post.
The official Conservative line - as presented here on PB - is that some refugees (from the past, where it is now safe to sympathise with them) are worthy of consideration, while others (now, in the present) are not. They are just a threat, to be "weaponised" for the benefit of the current Conservative campaign.
The fact that the Lib Dem candidate sees heartlessness towards fellow human beings both then and now is a fair point for her to make, I would have thought.
If this is the strongest attack line the Tories have in a by-election taking place because one of their MPs resigned after being investigated for being paid to influence policy on behalf of a potential government supplier, whereupon the party whipped its members to vote to change the system to get him off the hook… well, I’d say she’s in with a chance.
Well, quite. It didn't take a lot of Oswald Mosleys in the 30s to ensure that Jewish migration from germany to here was as difficult as it was and that people therefore died who needn't have, it just needed a bit of bored distaste for German Jews and the hope that the Home Secretary would take a firm line.
Went for an early drive along an A-road and back. About 80% of the people sticking to the speed limit. Ridiculous safety-theatre. Shout out to the 20% of heroes who are rightly standing up for their freedoms.
You'll be telling me next they were all wearing seatbelts.
What snowflakes - killing the West with their excessive safety culture!
Seat belts are what save lives. We should be encouraging 100% adoption. Speed limits are just theatre, slowing down the economy and destroying our natural liberties.
Seat belts may be the best tools to save lives for drivers and passengers, speed limits however are the best tool to save lives for pedestrians, especially in built up areas
On topic, does anyone know what boundary changes do to YC's constituency?
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
Cricket update; India have declared, leaving New Zealand and improbable 539 to win. Currently, with about a session and a bit to go today, they're 43-1. It's only Day 3, so provided they can stay there, they've got time .......
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
No because my Mcdonalds example show people actually dont believe in masks .I am sceptical of opinion polls on policy issues because they can be manipulated or people just like being virtuous in them when in reality and (free) action they are not .
As for brexit I have no idea what you are talking about - I voted REMAIN
I wasn't referring to you specifically. However I don't entirely buy your McDonald's example. For a start you can't eat while wearing a mask so it's really people making a choice between not eating in McDonald's at all or putting up with the risk.
Also I take your point about opinion polling but I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever that COVID restrictions have been anything but popular. Protests against them have been tiny, no candidate has yet gained any electoral success in opposing them and so on.
It’s important to distinguish between 3 distinct things:
1. Peppa Pig, which is a popular and loveable creation most parents are very happy with 2. Paulton’s park, which by theme park standards is pretty good: well landscaped, decent catering, usually manageable queues 3. The Peppa Pig world section of Paulton’s park, which is a bit crap and an anticlimax
Best kids’ theme park attractions in the South of the country are surely the Harry Potter studio tour and the model world bit of Legoland, though I do hear good things about Port Lympne too.
At the local supermarket there weren't many people, but customers and staff all had masks. Sign outside had changed from 'feel free to wear a mask' to 'you must wear a mask'.
They remain tedious, and a futile gesture for the sake of a government that wants to be seen to be doing something.
The important quote “And I've been hearing the feedback now for too long and it's now time to act.”
Sorry but once you heard the feedback you should have acted then. Finding vans at this time of year expect to pay the full retail price of the van in this market quite possibly per week.
A royal mail parcel was delivered to me last evening by a guy in civvies with a an ordinary van. Reckon they are out sourcing to white van man already.
There are already delays, evidenced by the fact that my coffee subscription has started turning up on Monday rather than Saturday. Locally, Royal Mail were already staffing the delivery office at the beginning on November though, so some forward planning was done.
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
Iraq and Libya are better now than they were under Saddam and Gaddafi and elect their own governments. Afghanistan was Taliban run before we invaded and is Taliban run now we have left, so no different than before, albeit we did get rid of Bin Laden.
However generally better to let countries determine their own future and only intervene abroad now if their governments present a clear security threat to us or if they invade another country or pursue genocide of hundreds of thousands. Otherwise just focus on tightening our border controls to ensure we only let in genuine asylum seekers not those who pose a security threat
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
No because my Mcdonalds example show people actually dont believe in masks .I am sceptical of opinion polls on policy issues because they can be manipulated or people just like being virtuous in them when in reality and (free) action they are not .
As for brexit I have no idea what you are talking about - I voted REMAIN
I wasn't referring to you specifically. However I don't entirely buy your McDonald's example. For a start you can't eat while wearing a mask so it's really people making a choice between not eating in McDonald's at all or putting up with the risk.
Also I take your point about opinion polling but I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever that COVID restrictions have been anything but popular. Protests against them have been tiny, no candidate has yet gained any electoral success in opposing them and so on.
the Macdonals was so crowded that the wait time for food was about 15 mins but the crowd standing waiting had no masks - peopel really dont intrinsically believe in them but they obey generally the laws , hence the same peopel masking up in the next door Waterstones etc
"Much of the poorer part of the world is still susceptible to the disease, and as long as it is, many more people will die, and the risk of new and more dangerous variants will remain. In May 2020, the estimated cost of vaccinating the entire planet was $25 billion. That’s a lot of money. On the other hand, $20.2 billion is what the US military spent on air-conditioning each year in Afghanistan and Iraq. It might turn out to have been a very stupid $25 billion for the rich world to have saved. Covid is still here, 44 per cent of the world’s population is unvaccinated, and the lock is still rattling."
That $25bn figure looks awfully low. The cheapest vaccine available is the AZ at about $3 a shot, so two shots for 7.5bn people comes out at $45bn just for the shots themselves, plus all the staff and infrastructure required to deliver them into everyone’s arms. The actual cost is going to be well north of $100bn, once vaccine mix, distribution and delivery are all factored in.
If everyone needs three shots, it’s probably north of $250bn total, an order of magnitude higher than the estimate.
Being somewhat cynical I think the best way to have got vaccines into the arms of the developing world would have been if the UN had paired up “rich nations/vaccine producing nations” with groups of developing nations in proportion to size of population and said - you are responsible for vaccines in these countries.
You would suddenly have, for example, the EU, UK, US, China in a competition to show whose best (as we saw with domestic roll-out) and no doubt suddenly lots of resources would be applied for logistics, vaccines, staffing in the countries they are responsible for as they would all want the kudos of being the best and wouldn’t want to be shown up on the world stage…..
I don't think that is necessarily a cynical view of things. From a simple practical point of view it deals with a lot of the problems inherent in typical aid programmes - that they are piecemeal, discontinuous, badly coordinated, etc.
If, say, Ireland had been paired with Sierra Leone, then the two countries would have been able to work in detail, in partnership, to work through the difficulties and fix them.
Yes, that's what I had in mind too, and it is still possible. And I don't even mind if it's cynical so long as it works. If I was president of Sierra Leone, I'd absolutely be up for voting to defend the US in Guantanamo Bay or Russia in Crimea or China in Xinjiang if one of them was willing to save my population from tens of thousands of deaths - where do I sign?
Not unless one was specifically approved for the job.
AIUI the issue was reaching the pedals and seeing the mirrors at the same time, so a booster seat wouldn't have solved the problem.
Having mirrors designed to adjust properly would have done, but that would have required some forethought on the part of the designers.
Absolutely ridiculous if that's the reason. The bus designers should have been well aware of the pitfalls of designing for the average person (er, man, no doubt)...
That’s a good piece. Why would anyone design a vehicle in 2021, that can’t be adjusted to the range of different-sized people who might be expected to operate it? If the US military can’t find ‘average’ people, what chance that a local bus company can do it?
It’s important to distinguish between 3 distinct things:
1. Peppa Pig, which is a popular and loveable creation most parents are very happy with 2. Paulton’s park, which by theme park standards is pretty good: well landscaped, decent catering, usually manageable queues 3. The Peppa Pig world section of Paulton’s park, which is a bit crap and an anticlimax
Best kids’ theme park attractions in the South of the country are surely the Harry Potter studio tour and the model world bit of Legoland, though I do hear good things about Port Lympne too.
"...I do hear good things about Port Lympne..." Been talking to Carrie?
I was in Nottignham on Saturday so busy will all the xmas shoppers and there was the monty python ridiculous level of reality of people (90% ish) wearing masks in uncrowded little niche type shops and then presumably the same people crowded into a Macdonalds waiting for their food unmasked . An alien would conclude Macdonalds has some air that means coivd cannot be transmitted .I on the other hand concluded people hate masks ,think they are useless but generally obey laws. We need to get people to stop obeying busy body laws like mask wearing now
Again,, this seems to be a case where mask anecdotes match their pre-existing viewpoints. I did some shopping in Huntingdon yesterday, and in five shops, I saw one person not wearing a mask (*). As far as I could see, everyone in the long lunchtime queue at Greggs was wearing them.
(*) A lady in Wilcos, who pushed into the queue two space behind me. Everyone was very British and did not complain.
Greggs though is assumed by most people, a shop rather than a cafe or restaurant - Greggs was generally mask wearing in Nottingham , Macdonalds (more obvious not a shop) was not
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
No because my Mcdonalds example show people actually dont believe in masks .I am sceptical of opinion polls on policy issues because they can be manipulated or people just like being virtuous in them when in reality and (free) action they are not .
As for brexit I have no idea what you are talking about - I voted REMAIN
Perhaps the folk in McDonald's were not wearing masks because they were eating and drinking?
I shall be avoiding crowded indoors places where people are not following the rules. If they aren't willing to wear masks than they are pretty certain to not be following other rules on isolation etc. When I have to do so, I shall wear an FFP3.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe"
The pursuit of safety is like a cancer that is slowly killing western civilisation.
Like those bossy warnings on fag packets?
Have you had cancer? I have. It is different in several material ways from wearing a facemask in Tescos.
That might be a relevant point, Mr Darkage, if that were the only issue that voters were concerned about. However, I understand that voters in North Shropshire are also concerned about the deterioration in local services and the way they are taken for granted by the Conservatives.
So if a politician comes along and says effectively that all human beings matter, that all lives matter - then this is an important message. They themselves also matter to the Lib Dems. It is quite different from the Conservative message, which says that the only people who matter are the stinking rich and their chums.
"...all lives matter ..." 😀
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have elderly parents myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember, when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
I expect Helen Morgan will win.
And they can do this because they have almost zero national profile. Nobody knows what they stand for, so local candidates can fill in the blanks according to the local electorates.
Which also explains why they hit a bit of a by-election success desert post 2010, and why they struggle to replicate strike rate in General elections (when they are forced to develop a national profile to some extent), in addition to other factors like the reality that General Elections are about choosing a Government.
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
As I said, Mr L, we agree on at least as much as we disagree. The creation of Pakistan doesn't stand out as a shining example of 'how to do it' either.
Good morning everyone. 'Warmer' this morning, Though from the sound on the roof, it's raining again.
Quite what is the point of the new travel arrangements? I can, just about, see the point of my Thailand relatives not being allowed to board the plane without a negative test; they are after all going to be in the plane for around twelve hours, and neither I nor they have any issue with them having to have a PCR on arrival, but why does someone on a flight from, say Paris or the Canaries have to do two tests within a very few hours of each other. And what will be the arrangements at, again as example, for a lorry driver bringing over a load from Europe via Dover. Has the Sec of State for Health got relations running testing kit supply companies?
What is the point of masks in supermarkets? Which are hardly a notable vector of transmission. Or indeed in school classrooms (which undoubtedly are)? A report on the subject in Scotland commissioned a year ago remains conspicuous by its absence.
Many of these actions are done for one thing only - to look as if our lords and masters are doing something.
The tragedy is they're so mind bendingly incompetent we'd be far better off if they did nothing.
Dont wear them - i have made up my mind i am not wearing a facemask at all anywhere and nobody has said anything . There will always be a variant , covid around so the logical thing is that we will have facemasks forever until they are mass resisted
Have you been vaccinated and are willing to keep up with boosters? If so, I agree with you.
yes I am not anti vaccine and this is the way to deal with this virus . it is not to shut down society forever or do covid theatre for no reason than to be seen to be doing something and seem to be in control of a virus that cannto be controlled . We have a weird state of mind these days that governments can solve everything and that society is all about "being safe". The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
On a purely personal level I've never been more miserable than these past two weeks when I've been suffering from COVID. I also find it slightly amusing that a lot of the most virulent anti maskers on here are the same people who justify every idiocy of Brexit because it was the will of the people. Well opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the population support the most careful approach to COVID on offer. Do you respect this or not?
No because my Mcdonalds example show people actually dont believe in masks .I am sceptical of opinion polls on policy issues because they can be manipulated or people just like being virtuous in them when in reality and (free) action they are not .
As for brexit I have no idea what you are talking about - I voted REMAIN
Perhaps the folk in McDonald's were not wearing masks because they were eating and drinking?
I shall be avoiding crowded indoors places where people are not following the rules. If they aren't willing to wear masks than they are pretty certain to not be following other rules on isolation etc. When I have to do so, I shall wear an FFP3.
As i said , nobody was wearing masks in Macdonalds whilst waiting for food - very crowded as well
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
As I said, Mr L, we agree on at least as much as we disagree. The creation of Pakistan doesn't stand out as a shining example of 'how to do it' either.
Better than the civil war between Indian Hindus and Indian Muslims that would have occurred had Pakistan not been created as a state for Indian Muslims
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Big if true, but it patently isn't. We know the incident happened near Calais, no way can that have been faked, so what are the Coastguard supposed to have been told? I can see on google maps that my cousin's boat in France has stopped moving?
Presumably they told the French coastguard...
Link says HM Coastguard because they were in UK waters
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's a question around 'slippery slopes' surely. And, perchance, 'crying wolf'!
It's contemptible and shows the usual lack of insight. In fairness the liked comment is more extreme in this than her own and I do not disagree that we are struggling to remember the humanity of those willing to risk their lives to come here. But the complacent and ignorant othering of political opponents is a dangerous step down the road that the US has gone far too far down making an extremely unhappy and ungovernable country. This needs to stop if we are to address difficult problems like immigration effectively.
You are right there, Mr L. This matter arose because some Conservatives thought they could use some tweets of the Lib Dem candidate in the upcoming byelection against her. What she was doing was recognising our common humanity - and this is I think your position in this latest post.
The official Conservative line - as presented here on PB - is that some refugees (from the past, where it is now safe to sympathise with them) are worthy of consideration, while others (now, in the present) are not. They are just a threat, to be "weaponised" for the benefit of the current Conservative campaign.
The fact that the Lib Dem candidate sees heartlessness towards fellow human beings both then and now is a fair point for her to make, I would have thought.
If this is the strongest attack line the Tories have in a by-election taking place because one of their MPs resigned after being investigated for being paid to influence policy on behalf of a potential government supplier, whereupon the party whipped its members to vote to change the system to get him off the hook… well, I’d say she’s in with a chance.
Well, quite. It didn't take a lot of Oswald Mosleys in the 30s to ensure that Jewish migration from germany to here was as difficult as it was and that people therefore died who needn't have, it just needed a bit of bored distaste for German Jews and the hope that the Home Secretary would take a firm line.
These people are coming from France not Nazi Germany!
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
Libya and Afghanistan were both enemies though. Cynically, I can't help thinking that Iraq was invaded to create an enemy and therefore perpetuate the Long War.
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Big if true, but it patently isn't. We know the incident happened near Calais, no way can that have been faked, so what are the Coastguard supposed to have been told? I can see on google maps that my cousin's boat in France has stopped moving?
Presumably they told the French coastguard...
According to the earlier report I read (now apparently removed) they did call both the French and UK coastguard. But I suspect it's all rumour and speculation.
I very much doubt if a distress call was ignored on either side of the channel.
The important quote “And I've been hearing the feedback now for too long and it's now time to act.”
Sorry but once you heard the feedback you should have acted then. Finding vans at this time of year expect to pay the full retail price of the van in this market quite possibly per week.
A royal mail parcel was delivered to me last evening by a guy in civvies with a an ordinary van. Reckon they are out sourcing to white van man already.
A pedant writes: mufti, not civvies, unless the comparison is between military and civilian life. Maybe the matelot who drove his plane off the end of the boat has been redeployed delivering parcels.
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Big if true, but it patently isn't. We know the incident happened near Calais, no way can that have been faked, so what are the Coastguard supposed to have been told? I can see on google maps that my cousin's boat in France has stopped moving?
Presumably they told the French coastguard...
Link says HM Coastguard because they were in UK waters
You said we know it happened near Calais. So why didn't the French respond?
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's a question around 'slippery slopes' surely. And, perchance, 'crying wolf'!
It's contemptible and shows the usual lack of insight. In fairness the liked comment is more extreme in this than her own and I do not disagree that we are struggling to remember the humanity of those willing to risk their lives to come here. But the complacent and ignorant othering of political opponents is a dangerous step down the road that the US has gone far too far down making an extremely unhappy and ungovernable country. This needs to stop if we are to address difficult problems like immigration effectively.
You are right there, Mr L. This matter arose because some Conservatives thought they could use some tweets of the Lib Dem candidate in the upcoming byelection against her. What she was doing was recognising our common humanity - and this is I think your position in this latest post.
The official Conservative line - as presented here on PB - is that some refugees (from the past, where it is now safe to sympathise with them) are worthy of consideration, while others (now, in the present) are not. They are just a threat, to be "weaponised" for the benefit of the current Conservative campaign.
The fact that the Lib Dem candidate sees heartlessness towards fellow human beings both then and now is a fair point for her to make, I would have thought.
If this is the strongest attack line the Tories have in a by-election taking place because one of their MPs resigned after being investigated for being paid to influence policy on behalf of a potential government supplier, whereupon the party whipped its members to vote to change the system to get him off the hook… well, I’d say she’s in with a chance.
Well, quite. It didn't take a lot of Oswald Mosleys in the 30s to ensure that Jewish migration from germany to here was as difficult as it was and that people therefore died who needn't have, it just needed a bit of bored distaste for German Jews and the hope that the Home Secretary would take a firm line.
These people are coming from France not Nazi Germany!
This is a quite startling claim that the migrants who drowned in the English Channel were left to do so by HM Coastguard who knew they were there and in trouble for many hours.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
It would merit criminal charges if true I would have thought.
Big if true, but it patently isn't. We know the incident happened near Calais, no way can that have been faked, so what are the Coastguard supposed to have been told? I can see on google maps that my cousin's boat in France has stopped moving?
Presumably they told the French coastguard...
According to the earlier report I read (now apparently removed) they did call both the French and UK coastguard. But I suspect it's all rumour and speculation.
I very much doubt if a distress call was ignored on either side of the channel.
Good morning
I understand one of the two survivors alleged they had contacted our Coastguard but the Coastguard cannot find any evidence of the call
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
As I said, Mr L, we agree on at least as much as we disagree. The creation of Pakistan doesn't stand out as a shining example of 'how to do it' either.
Better than the civil war between Indian Hindus and Indian Muslims that would have occurred had Pakistan not been created as a state for Indian Muslims
Has not India, as presently constituted, quite a large Muslin population? I seem to recall, too, a Mohammed someone, presumably Muslim, playing cricket for India, and a Hindu, who also played for Essex, playing for Pakistan.
Not unless one was specifically approved for the job.
AIUI the issue was reaching the pedals and seeing the mirrors at the same time, so a booster seat wouldn't have solved the problem.
Having mirrors designed to adjust properly would have done, but that would have required some forethought on the part of the designers.
Absolutely ridiculous if that's the reason. The bus designers should have been well aware of the pitfalls of designing for the average person (er, man, no doubt)...
That’s a good piece. Why would anyone design a vehicle in 2021, that can’t be adjusted to the range of different-sized people who might be expected to operate it? If the US military can’t find ‘average’ people, what chance that a local bus company can do it?
I suspect adjustable mirrors are an optional extra and so the Bus company didn't buy them.
Equally the idea of mirrors is just stupid nowadays, spend a few quid and use cameras positioned exactly where you want them to be.
Telegraph doesn't think it looks too good for Kamala:
"some figures in Washington are reportedly considering the “nuclear option” of moving [Kamala Harris] to the Supreme Court and putting a more well-liked vice president in her place in time for the next presidential election. Staff are now leaving her office in their droves because they don’t want to be tarnished as a ‘Harris person’ ahead of 2024."
That might be a relevant point, Mr Darkage, if that were the only issue that voters were concerned about. However, I understand that voters in North Shropshire are also concerned about the deterioration in local services and the way they are taken for granted by the Conservatives.
So if a politician comes along and says effectively that all human beings matter, that all lives matter - then this is an important message. They themselves also matter to the Lib Dems. It is quite different from the Conservative message, which says that the only people who matter are the stinking rich and their chums.
"...all lives matter ..." 😀
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have elderly parents myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember, when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
I expect Helen Morgan will win.
I'd heard of a situation where the lib dems won control of a Council by objecting to major investment in public transport infrastructure in favour of car ownership.
Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.
Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?
Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:
“He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”
Then she liked a post from someone who replied:
‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’
Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
It's not all Conservatives though. David Davis had a very sensible and humane piece on this in the Guardian. There is a very nasty strain of opinion developing on refugees, egged on by this government, which is reminiscent of other historical examples of politicians who exploited these kind of fears and treated other people as less than human. Nothing wrong with saying that, imho.
I don't want to bore on this but I really think that there is. We face a challenging problem with illegal immigration at the moment. There are no easy answers and as the population of Africa explodes over the next 30 years or so the problem is going to get much, much worse.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
I think we're all on the same side on this; obviously I agree with Mr L that 'everyone can't come here' and that 'we' ought to be doing everything we can to make lives better for those in the failed states. However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
That is so difficult though. Even putting aside the patronising, racist paternalism of a new colonialism the shining examples of "nation building" we have left behind in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan do raise some question marks about our competence and capability of doing any better.
We could start simply by not misguidedly pursuing short-term policies that undermine long-term development.
It's no surprise that we see this in foreign policy, when we increasingly see politicians undermine domestic rule of law and democratic norms in pursuit of short-term political aims. The long-term is simply many short-term decisions stitched together. We can't simply abandon it for other people to deal with.
You dont cross the channel in a flimsy boat having (probably ) paid all your life savings and more to some serious criminals unless you are desparate especially with your family . Now there will always be a dangerous stretch of water between France and England and (perhaps sadly ) always some need for immigration control . The only thing to change is the desparation of the people who do this and that is not easy but it could start by not dividing people up as we do in all societies , getting rid on restrictions to work (and hence contribute) and creating less not more borders (hence my reason to vote REMAIN )
Comments
He is an idealistic utopian liberal compared to the recent actions of the Chinese Communist party.
The effect on stpid restirctions and day to day obsession about covid is getting criminal in terms of consequences on education , general health and making a miserable society
You would suddenly have, for example, the EU, UK, US, China in a competition to show whose best (as we saw with domestic roll-out) and no doubt suddenly lots of resources would be applied for logistics, vaccines, staffing in the countries they are responsible for as they would all want the kudos of being the best and wouldn’t want to be shown up on the world stage…..
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/30/hastings-small-boat-arrivals-tensions-east-sussex-town
Now, that clearly isn't Tory policy - far from it.
But... the Tories facilitate and encourage such extreme actions in two ways:
1. The rhetoric from Patel and others, including the proposed law change to make it and offence to assist a refugee/illegal immigrant even fo no gain.
2. The absolute abject failure to do anything to actually solve the problem. Nothing. Zilch.
Saying it's all too difficult so let's just throw the surplus vaccines away seems to me criminal.
I don't want to support any political party that dehumanises and demonises refugees, asylum seekers or economic migrants. If that means that we lose some votes from those who vilify such people, then so be it.
Dr. de Oliveira said he was worried less about a vaccine-resistant variant emerging in South Africa than, for example, a pocket of the United States with untreated H.I.V., low vaccination coverage and a weaker surveillance network than South Africa has.
“The chances are we’d find it first,” he said with a grim laugh.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/04/health/covid-variant-south-africa-hiv.html
Having mirrors designed to adjust properly would have done, but that would have required some forethought on the part of the designers.
* I say "was" because trust in the vaccines has clearly been dropped now. Get vaccinated and boosted and you still have to comply with Covid theatre and the tests to return to your own country. All because the government wants to cover its arse. The companies making these Covid tests must be coining it in again.
And - the hypocrisy - we claim to be environmentalists yet the plastic waste generated by these tests! I took a LFT yesterday and couldn't believe the non-bio-gradable waste that each test generates. Plus many masks contain single-use plastic.
We have a set of rules that are not fit for purpose. Bluntly, there are far too many hundreds of millions living in failed states to allow us to give anything other than a token percentage of them asylum. There are hundreds of millions more who want to come here for a better life for themselves and their children. Who can blame them? Much of the world remains a desperate place.
So what is the humane response to this? The answer is really not obvious and we certainly don't get any closer to an answer by going Godwin on a significant percentage of the people who are concerned about the implications. You might have thought that lesson would have been learned once and for all by Brexit but apparently not.
https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages.html
But the simple fact is going to sea in a small boat is a risk..
Unfortunately we have absurd policies from both the left and right - the left which apparently want to encourage extremely dangerous trips by migrants without thinking through how they can be accommodated when they arrive; and the right who prefer dodgy rhetoric and floating fantasy solutions which they cannot deliver (wave machines?) without doing very much at all about the situation in reality.
LibDem campaigning is fundamentally dishonest.
Depending on the audience, the LibDem campaign can be to the left of Corbyn, or to the right of Farage.
If canvassing a young person, the LibDem is in favour of abolition of tuition fees, helping young people onto the housing ladder. And remember, I understand young people, I have children of their own.
If canvassing an OAP, well, then we need to support our old folk, make sure they have decent pensions, and make sure they never have to sell their home if they need care. And remember, I have elderly parents myself.
In a diverse area, the LibDem is in favour of immigration, the motor of our economy, so enriching for our country. And remember, I have many black and Asian friends.
In a well-heeled area, the LibDem is in favour of protecting the green belt against new housing for incomers. And remember, I am a householder myself and we all benefit from rising property prices.
Amongst farmers, well, the Libdem just loves the countryside. And remember, I eat the food that the farmers produce.
Amongst trade unionists, the LibDem just loves organised labour and support the workers. And remember, I work myself.
Amongst businesspeople, the LibDem just adores wealth creators, making jobs for people, so important. And remember, I own shares in businesses myself.
Among the poor, the LibDem talks of the hard times. And remember, when I was a student at Oxford, I had to do a bit of slumming myself. I know what poverty is.
Among the rich, the LibDem opens up about his share and property portfolio, skiing holidays and second homes. Gosh, it is like pb.com, he says. And remember, I only have all this money because I want to do good.
LibDem byelection campaigns are fundamentally dishonest. There is no inkling that politics is about priorities.
I expect Helen Morgan will win.
https://twitter.com/professorfergus/status/1444259197168799746?s=21
What snowflakes - killing the West with their excessive safety culture!
However, at the moment we don't seem to be doing that, Yemen being perhaps the most extreme example, and when some brave or desperate souls do manage to make the trip there are some here who almost seem to glory in making life as unpleasant as possible;le for them here.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10276263/Royal-Mail-boss-issues-urgent-call-hundreds-vans-deliver-Christmas-presents.html#article-10276263
The important quote “And I've been hearing the feedback now for too long and it's now time to act.”
Sorry but once you heard the feedback you should have acted then. Finding vans at this time of year expect to pay the full retail price of the van in this market quite possibly per week.
There were broken bottles in the Brexit message. There was hard glass with jagged edges that cut and made you bleed.
Not just the cotton wool of a LibDem by-election campaign.
There was no attempt to appeal to absolutely everyone in the Brexiteers' message (though it may have been dishonest in parts).
The official Conservative line - as presented here on PB - is that some refugees (from the past, where it is now safe to sympathise with them) are worthy of consideration, while others (now, in the present) are not. They are just a threat, to be "weaponised" for the benefit of the current Conservative campaign.
The fact that the Lib Dem candidate sees heartlessness towards fellow human beings both then and now is a fair point for her to make, I would have thought.
Someone downthread says the left get wound up by her - not especially, I'd say, but she represents continuity with the Blair/Brown era, which is a good thing if one wants experience and familiar names or a bad thing if one wants a decisive break with the past. Most left-wingers who I know would settle for a couple of identifiably progressive policies and let Starmer appoint whoever he reckons will appeal.
I do think some here are being silly in thinking HIPS is going to blight her appeal - I dount if more than 10% of the electorate remember what they were, and half of those will reckon they were a reasonable minor idea that didn't work out. There are worse stumbles in politics, not least in the history of the current Cabinet.
I'd say the comment is heavily overdone.
As for brexit I have no idea what you are talking about - I voted REMAIN
As a press release has been sent to the local papers I will be doing 50 along there while the roadworks are in place rather than the 80+ most people do.
Yes it’s pathetic the way people discuss, at length, controversial new rules that are a drastic change to all we’ve ever known, but don’t give the same energy or column inches to century old established parts of everyday living
Most people are pretty unthinking about it all. They still trust the Prime Minister, what he says and his policies, when even this week he riffed on hand washing to stop covid. But you also have people who get angry and think others selfish for not masking up. And this division is almost certainly because rather than being shown leadership, we are all being left to come to the conclusion ourselves that covid is always gonna be around killing people and if you’re pretty unlucky you might be one of them.
Whereas McDonald's is largely frequented and staffed by youngsters, and anyone who thinks a McDonald's burger is a foodstuff is a good target for natural selection.
As it happens I don't mind wearing a mask for short periods. The period I caught Covid I went to a few shops, and worked in a covid secure environment. So if mask-wearing slows things down, all to the good. With Rt near 1, you don't need to have much of an effect.
No doubt when polling says 75% of voters think Brexit is a stupendous clusterfuck a similar formulation will be cobbled together.
In terms of leadership, if Starmer was replaced midway through the Parliament then Cooper or Reeves would likely be his replacement. If he stays leader until the next general election but loses it then Burnham would likely be added to the mix given he is likely to stand again for Parliament but only at the next election
The question then becomes who is the demos to whom she has to appeal.
If, say, Ireland had been paired with Sierra Leone, then the two countries would have been able to work in detail, in partnership, to work through the difficulties and fix them.
The LibDems are a political party, allegedly with some unity of common philosophy and purpose.
The Brexiteers are a grouping from the far-Left (Corbyn and beyond) through the Centre to the far right (Farage and beyond). They do not have anything in common, other than dislike of the EU.
(*) A lady in Wilcos, who pushed into the queue two space behind me. Everyone was very British and did not complain.
It's only Day 3, so provided they can stay there, they've got time .......
Also I take your point about opinion polling but I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever that COVID restrictions have been anything but popular. Protests against them have been tiny, no candidate has yet gained any electoral success in opposing them and so on.
It’s important to distinguish between 3 distinct things:
1. Peppa Pig, which is a popular and loveable creation most parents are very happy with
2. Paulton’s park, which by theme park standards is pretty good: well landscaped, decent catering, usually manageable queues
3. The Peppa Pig world section of Paulton’s park, which is a bit crap and an anticlimax
Best kids’ theme park attractions in the South of the country are surely the Harry Potter studio tour and the model world bit of Legoland, though I do hear good things about Port Lympne too.
They remain tedious, and a futile gesture for the sake of a government that wants to be seen to be doing something.
However generally better to let countries determine their own future and only intervene abroad now if their governments present a clear security threat to us or if they invade another country or pursue genocide of hundreds of thousands. Otherwise just focus on tightening our border controls to ensure we only let in genuine asylum seekers not those who pose a security threat
*sighs*
I shall be avoiding crowded indoors places where people are not following the rules. If they aren't willing to wear masks than they are pretty certain to not be following other rules on isolation etc. When I have to do so, I shall wear an FFP3.
Have you had cancer? I have. It is different in several material ways from wearing a facemask in Tescos.
Which also explains why they hit a bit of a by-election success desert post 2010, and why they struggle to replicate strike rate in General elections (when they are forced to develop a national profile to some extent), in addition to other factors like the reality that General Elections are about choosing a Government.
I'm glad you survived, and hope it doesn't return.
I very much doubt if a distress call was ignored on either side of the channel.
That is 20% of everything made here so far.
Has something new come on stream?
https://globalcommissionforpostpandemicpolicy.org/covid-19-vaccine-production-to-november-30th-2021/
I understand one of the two survivors alleged they had contacted our Coastguard but the Coastguard cannot find any evidence of the call
I seem to recall, too, a Mohammed someone, presumably Muslim, playing cricket for India, and a Hindu, who also played for Essex, playing for Pakistan.
Equally the idea of mirrors is just stupid nowadays, spend a few quid and use cameras positioned exactly where you want them to be.
"some figures in Washington are reportedly considering the “nuclear option” of moving [Kamala Harris] to the Supreme Court and putting a more well-liked vice president in her place in time for the next presidential election. Staff are now leaving her office in their droves because they don’t want to be tarnished as a ‘Harris person’ ahead of 2024."
It's no surprise that we see this in foreign policy, when we increasingly see politicians undermine domestic rule of law and democratic norms in pursuit of short-term political aims. The long-term is simply many short-term decisions stitched together. We can't simply abandon it for other people to deal with.