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France 2022: An update – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,395

    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    Regardless of Omicron, there's a lot of covid around right now. If you are infected from end of next week onwards you are v likely to be isolating over Christmas.
    Is the Xmas party season worth the risk?

    I have been deciding not to do things because I don't want to catch Covid and not be able to visit my daughter in Bath later in December. This feels obvious and logical in these unusual circumstances, but it's not really is it?

    In the before times, anyone who suggested that they were not seeing people for a couple of weeks before a planned trip - to be on the safe side to avoid catching a cold, or the flu - would be thought of as a bizarre crank.

    Every year there must have been countless thousands of people who ended up catching a bug at the wrong time so that they were ill on Christmas Day, and you would sympathise with them, and understand they might curse their bad luck, but nobody would have suggested that they should have stayed at home for two weeks beforehand in an attempt to make sure it didn't happen.

    One Christmas, just after a company reorganisation, I was invited to two work Christmas lunches, one for my old department and one for the new, and I joked that I was punished for my hubris in attempting to attend both by being struck down with different illnesses and not being able to attend either one. It didn't for a moment occur to me that I should have given up on a whole bunch of social contact beforehand.

    What a bizarre situation we are in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121
    Hamilton looking quick as f*** in final practice.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,698

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    Not much, I would think. There is no reasoning with the splitters. Though if I were SKS, I would restore the whip at some decent interval, perhaps as part of a more general amnesty. No need to create martyrs.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
  • Wow West Ham have defeated Chelsea, after beating Liverpool a few weeks ago. Could they finish the season in the Top 4?

    Hopefully we can go to the Top of the table soon, then Hoping for an extremely unlikely Watford result to stay there.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,698

    Wow West Ham have defeated Chelsea, after beating Liverpool a few weeks ago. Could they finish the season in the Top 4?

    Hopefully we can go to the Top of the table soon, then Hoping for an extremely unlikely Watford result to stay there.

    Yes, West Ham do look good. I think they will keep 4th place. The PL winner is wide open though.
  • Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
    That just made it easier. The theme predates Corbyn's leadership.
    When you're blessed with such impressive tentacles, why not use them?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,582
    Just been out to a Christmas market in the small Devon town of Kingsbridge, which was very busy and still a fair number not wearing masks. Bumped into a couple of friends. He has been jabbed and boosted, she (mid 60s with health issues) has gone down the anti-vaxxer rabbit hole.

    We thought she was looking startled; turns out she had just heard the couple who had been very vocal and persuaded her not to get jabbed both have Covid. She is getting over it; but he (in his mid 70s) was taken to hospital last night and is in a poor way.

    Be interesting to see if our friend revisits her decision not to get jabbed now.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Polly Evans
    @Polly_Evans
    ·
    18h
    BBC report on Scottish school sex survey is too explicit for kids contains the sentence - ‘Warning: This story contains adult language’ - answering its own questions…

    https://twitter.com/Polly_Evans/status/1466860135544983566?s=20
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    I don't know if its been mentioned before, but it looks like COVID in Germany has peeked,

    In the last 7 days they have reported: 402,271
    In the previous 7 days they reported: 401,119

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table

    My thoughts: They will be shooting past there 'heard immunity threshold' (for Delta at this time of year) I anticipate them having another week or so of high cases and then dropping dramatically. Hospitalization and death will follow a similar cure with the normal delay.

    Unless the Omicrone variant is a bad as predicted and messes things up.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    And after that glamour tie we've still got, err, Yeovil Town V Milton Keynes Dons to go.

    You couldn't make it up

    #BBCFail
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,508
    Get out of the hallway don’t block up the door, racing is for everyone.

    I’ve had a 12-1 winner with Greaneteen. A good story too.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,582

    I've been Pfizered!

    AZ, AZ, PF

    I’m PF, PF and am not allowed my booster til January. I suspect it might be Moderna.
    PF, PF and PF booster. First, arm felt like I'd been kicked by a horse. Second no real reaction. Third, arm felt like I'd been kicked by a horse AND felt off, with a bad headache for a few hours.

    Fair price to pay to (hopefully) stay out of hospital...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121
    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Hamilton looking quick as f*** in final practice.

    Well yeah. He's sat in a car with a really big engine.
    Qualifying might still be interesting as the Merc doesn’t look good on the soft tyres - of which the teams have the most sets.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    JBriskin3 said:

    And after that glamour tie we've still got, err, Yeovil Town V Milton Keynes Dons to go.

    You couldn't make it up

    #BBCFail

    Apologies pedants - Yeovil are playing Stevenage.

    Misread my Daily Star a wee bit.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568

    Just been out to a Christmas market in the small Devon town of Kingsbridge, which was very busy and still a fair number not wearing masks. Bumped into a couple of friends. He has been jabbed and boosted, she (mid 60s with health issues) has gone down the anti-vaxxer rabbit hole.

    We thought she was looking startled; turns out she had just heard the couple who had been very vocal and persuaded her not to get jabbed both have Covid. She is getting over it; but he (in his mid 70s) was taken to hospital last night and is in a poor way.

    Be interesting to see if our friend revisits her decision not to get jabbed now.

    People don't have to wear masks outside AFAIK.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BigRich said:

    I don't know if its been mentioned before, but it looks like COVID in Germany has peeked,

    In the last 7 days they have reported: 402,271
    In the previous 7 days they reported: 401,119

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table

    My thoughts: They will be shooting past there 'heard immunity threshold' (for Delta at this time of year) I anticipate them having another week or so of high cases and then dropping dramatically. Hospitalization and death will follow a similar cure with the normal delay.

    Unless the Omicrone variant is a bad as predicted and messes things up.

    What did it see?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    A very enlightening call-in (yes really) on Any Answers right now.
    Entire programme on the child killing.
    Calls from professionals only in the Child Protection field.
    A field in absolute shambles from the sounds of it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer gaffe. He just insults the most popular children's TV character of the decade's theme park in the way only a North London intellectual snob could.

    “I have been to Peppa Pig World, of course I have. It’s dreadful.” Keir Starmer

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1467065497304903683?s=20


    A North London intellectual snob. Hmm ; is that Boris Johnson, when he was living in Islington, paying effusive tribute in print to London's multiculturalism in order to be elected mayor, and getting paid by the BBC to swan off to Italy to make programmes about the make-up of the Roman Empire ?

    A couple of years later, on other hand, he was in the Commons ranting about a "Surrender Bill" and whipping up the far right, at the behest of Cummings. A Peter Sellers-like chameleon.
    I've read your post and can't see which part of it refers to snobbery by Johnson.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
    That just made it easier. The theme predates Corbyn's leadership.
    When you're blessed with such impressive tentacles, why not use them?
    I don't understand your point.
    The idea that the Zionists have the control over the money and the press to make everybody believe crazy things like support for organisations like Hamas might be antisemitic is the sort of antisemitic trope that used to be represented in cartoons of the Zionist tentacles wrapped around the world.

    I was, jokingly, saying if Israel has the big swinging tentacles they should use them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121
    China touting its “whole process democracy”…
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=319959

    … Ye, her fellow independent, said she did not know what "whole process democracy" meant but it was not the version of democracy that she had studied and understood as representing universal values.

    "I'll just say that if I put the words whole process democracy on a T-shirt, and wear it outside, I would 100 per cent be charged with picking quarrels and provoking trouble," she said, referring to the catch-all crime often used to muzzle dissent in China...
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
    That just made it easier. The theme predates Corbyn's leadership.
    When you're blessed with such impressive tentacles, why not use them?
    I don't understand your point.
    The idea that the Zionists have the control over the money and the press to make everybody believe crazy things like support for organisations like Hamas might be antisemitic is the sort of antisemitic trope that used to be represented in cartoons of the Zionist tentacles wrapped around the world.

    I was, jokingly, saying if Israel has the big swinging tentacles they should use them.
    They do use them. They've had every POTUS in living memory in their pocket.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,508

    Get out of the hallway don’t block up the door, racing is for everyone.

    I’ve had a 12-1 winner with Greaneteen. A good story too.

    1 a piece with Malky now after his earlier win. Maybe I’m not mare of the week for once!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,582
    Andy_JS said:

    Just been out to a Christmas market in the small Devon town of Kingsbridge, which was very busy and still a fair number not wearing masks. Bumped into a couple of friends. He has been jabbed and boosted, she (mid 60s with health issues) has gone down the anti-vaxxer rabbit hole.

    We thought she was looking startled; turns out she had just heard the couple who had been very vocal and persuaded her not to get jabbed both have Covid. She is getting over it; but he (in his mid 70s) was taken to hospital last night and is in a poor way.

    Be interesting to see if our friend revisits her decision not to get jabbed now.

    People don't have to wear masks outside AFAIK.
    Tricky; lots of people (including large numbers of kids/youths) huddled around and under covered stalls, so it still makes sense as a precaution.

    Our unjabbed anti-vaxxer friend was not wearing one.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    ‘Bolsonaro to face probe after claiming COVID vaccines increase chance of contracting AIDS’

    Should candidates in elections have to pass minimum IQ criteria? There seem to be an awful lot of thickos in office at the moment.

    The Russian one actually might have this side effect. The Ad5 vector has previously been linked to increased rates of HIV and the Russian vaccine uses it for the second dose. It's one of the reasons a lot of countries who originally bought it haven't used it or have done no second doses with it.
    Linked to increase rates, or links to increase positive tests for HIV. Didn't the Australian vaccine have the issue with the second i.e people weren't actually HIV positive, but it caused a false positive on some tests?
    No, actually HIV. The Australian one used a neutered version of HIV as a delivery vector (which was, looking back, a completely stupid idea), Ad5 seems to almost lower natural defences against HIV.
    Here's a fact check from Reuters:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-hiv-idUSKBN28R2WT
    "This is a reference to trials of a vaccine being developed by the biotech company CSL and The University of Queensland which used a fragment of a HIV virus protein as a component to stabilise the vaccine (here). Production was halted after trials showed that antibodies generated in response to the protein fragment could lead to false positives on some HIV tests (here).
    CSL told Reuters through email that the “vaccine candidate does not contain the HIV virus and there is no possibility that it could cause HIV. Follow up tests have confirmed a false positive reading in all phase 1 clinical trial participants, who demonstrated a reactive result in certain HIV tests.”
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited December 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer gaffe. He just insults the most popular children's TV character of the decade's theme park in the way only a North London intellectual snob could.

    “I have been to Peppa Pig World, of course I have. It’s dreadful.” Keir Starmer

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1467065497304903683?s=20


    A North London intellectual snob. Hmm ; is that Boris Johnson, when he was living in Islington, paying effusive tribute in print to London's multiculturalism in order to be elected mayor, and getting paid by the BBC to swan off to Italy to make programmes about the make-up of the Roman Empire ?

    A couple of years later, on other hand, he was in the Commons ranting about a "Surrender Bill" and whipping up the far right, at the behest of Cummings. A Peter Sellers-like chameleon.
    I've read your post and can't see which part of it refers to snobbery by Johnson.
    He's just a cultural chameleon ; an American-born, part-German and part-Turkish son of the global technocratic elite who spent time growing up in Brussels, a large amount of time living in Islington while making films for the BBC, and large parts of his early political career extolling the metropolitan virtues of the capital. None of these things make him a snob, just one of the world's leading hypocrites and play-actors.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,855
    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
    That just made it easier. The theme predates Corbyn's leadership.
    When you're blessed with such impressive tentacles, why not use them?
    I don't understand your point.
    The idea that the Zionists have the control over the money and the press to make everybody believe crazy things like support for organisations like Hamas might be antisemitic is the sort of antisemitic trope that used to be represented in cartoons of the Zionist tentacles wrapped around the world.

    I was, jokingly, saying if Israel has the big swinging tentacles they should use them.
    They do use them. They've had every POTUS in living memory in their pocket.
    Not so. Suez crisis, for instance.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    Breaking news mask update from Xmas shopping in Kent…!

    I’d say compliance was 99% in shops. A few weird souls were wearing them on the street and in their own cars. Bless. Some people still sticking with the panto in the cafes of wearing it to their table and taking it off when they sit down. Some moronic places still have signs commanding you to sanitise your hands to “stop the spread of covid”. These are generally the same places where the management are wearing cloth masks.

    I did comply with the mask mandate for the first time since about April because I’ve been feeling rather covidy for a week, even if the test came back negative. All in all it made what could have been quite a pleasant experience needlessly annoying.

    Amazon from a laptop in the pub from now on this Xmas for me I’m afraid Mr High Street.
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: looking interesting for qualifying. Mercedes should have the edge on race pace, though.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Carnyx said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
    That just made it easier. The theme predates Corbyn's leadership.
    When you're blessed with such impressive tentacles, why not use them?
    I don't understand your point.
    The idea that the Zionists have the control over the money and the press to make everybody believe crazy things like support for organisations like Hamas might be antisemitic is the sort of antisemitic trope that used to be represented in cartoons of the Zionist tentacles wrapped around the world.

    I was, jokingly, saying if Israel has the big swinging tentacles they should use them.
    They do use them. They've had every POTUS in living memory in their pocket.
    Not so. Suez crisis, for instance.
    OK Boomer
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited December 2021
    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    (Sorry I don't know enough about "far left clamour" to address you're point specifically)

    The zionists have done an amazing job in managing to spinn a pro-palestiane ideology as anti-semitic.
    That might be because of how happy the Corbynite pro-Palestine movement appears to be to accommodate anti-Semites
    That just made it easier. The theme predates Corbyn's leadership.
    When you're blessed with such impressive tentacles, why not use them?
    I don't understand your point.
    The idea that the Zionists have the control over the money and the press to make everybody believe crazy things like support for organisations like Hamas might be antisemitic is the sort of antisemitic trope that used to be represented in cartoons of the Zionist tentacles wrapped around the world.

    I was, jokingly, saying if Israel has the big swinging tentacles they should use them.
    They do use them. They've had every POTUS in living memory in their pocket.
    There's a difference, ofcourse, between having a certainly influential lobby on foreign policy, and the kind of monolithic influence across media, politics, international institutions, and much else, which is often imagined by the loopy.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,530
    edited December 2021
    Fantastic bright cold weather today - I was out delivering Xmas cards to members and really enjoyed it. Friends who tell me that walking is better than staring at a screen might even have a point? A novel thought.

    Sainsbury only about 80% masked, with one assistant and several customers not on board. It was more like 95% a few months ago.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121
    edited December 2021

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: looking interesting for qualifying. Mercedes should have the edge on race pace, though.

    That might not matter.
    Overtaking anyone not markedly slower looks as though it might be very difficult and/or dangerous. And as Norris pointed out, every single corner on the circuit is blind, so safety car incidents are quite likely.

    I expect Merc to run soft, medium, medium in Q1,Q2 and Q3.
    They might even be tempted to try Q2 on the hard tyre.
  • Mr. Palmer, grey and persistently rainy here (Yorkshire).

    While I loathe masks, I'll be donning one next time I buy something from the supermarket.
  • Mr. B, yeah, caught a tiny bit of practice and the number of blind corners was surprising.
  • My arm is very painful today but other than that, no other symptoms from the booster. I had Moderna.
  • Mr. Battery, good to hear.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121

    Mr. B, yeah, caught a tiny bit of practice and the number of blind corners was surprising.

    It’s a scary circuit - Silverstone speeds and Monaco walls.
  • My arm is very painful today but other than that, no other symptoms from the booster. I had Moderna.

    I also had a really painful arm after the last jab, cured only after two months by some stinging nettles. This seems to be a really common side-effect.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121

    Fantastic bright cold weather today - I was out delivering Xmas cards to members and really enjoyed it. Friends who tell me that walking is better than staring at a screen might even have a point? A novel thought.

    Sainsbury only about 80% masked, with one assistant and several customers not on board. It was more like 95% a few months ago.

    M&S (shopping for my mother) about 90%.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    Foxy said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    Not much, I would think. There is no reasoning with the splitters. Though if I were SKS, I would restore the whip at some decent interval, perhaps as part of a more general amnesty. No need to create martyrs.
    It would be the height of madness to restore the whip to Corbyn given he never apologised for what he said and has gone further in getting involved with people who explicitly endorse the kind of conspiracy theories around complaints about antisemitism on the left that got them into deep trouble in the first place. It would be the end of any authority Starmer has, a green light to the toxic elements of the far left that they're in the right, and create uproar in the Jewish community, almost 90% of whom (acc to several polls) see Corbyn as personally antisemitic. The Tories would hang it around his neck as evidence Labour had learned nothing from 2019 and were still at heart a party of ranting Corbynistas. It's a bit sad that Labour has to act in the way that it does in taking a tough line that's excluding certain parts of the left in Labour, but it's Corbyn and many of his supporters' fault for simply refusing to take a long hard look at themselves and realise that too often their dislike of Israel strays into antisemitic conspiracy theory, language, and allying with people who really do hold dangerous extremist views. He's no martyr, except to his dwindling band of fans, media cheerleaders whose income depends on pushing grievance to a certain audience, who increasingly are on another planet to everyone else. Keep him out and ignore him. He'll fade into irrelevance except for the next time he just happens to be speaking alongside someone with some toxic views.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121

    My arm is very painful today but other than that, no other symptoms from the booster. I had Moderna.

    I also had a really painful arm after the last jab, cured only after two months by some stinging nettles. This seems to be a really common side-effect.
    I as well. Got painful around 24hrs after the shot; fixed with paracetamol and a night’s sleep.
    Wouldn’t fancy foraging for nettles in this weather.
  • Fantastic bright cold weather today - I was out delivering Xmas cards to members and really enjoyed it. Friends who tell me that walking is better than staring at a screen might even have a point? A novel thought.

    Sainsbury only about 80% masked, with one assistant and several customers not on board. It was more like 95% a few months ago.

    I wasn't really paying attention in Sainsbury's New Cross Gate this morning, but I think mask wearing was near universal. It's been pretty well observed there since March 2020. We're a rules-abiding bunch in SE14.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited December 2021
    MJW said:

    Foxy said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    Not much, I would think. There is no reasoning with the splitters. Though if I were SKS, I would restore the whip at some decent interval, perhaps as part of a more general amnesty. No need to create martyrs.
    It would be the height of madness to restore the whip to Corbyn given he never apologised for what he said and has gone further in getting involved with people who explicitly endorse the kind of conspiracy theories around complaints about antisemitism on the left that got them into deep trouble in the first place. It would be the end of any authority Starmer has, a green light to the toxic elements of the far left that they're in the right, and create uproar in the Jewish community, almost 90% of whom (acc to several polls) see Corbyn as personally antisemitic. The Tories would hang it around his neck as evidence Labour had learned nothing from 2019 and were still at heart a party of ranting Corbynistas. It's a bit sad that Labour has to act in the way that it does in taking a tough line that's excluding certain parts of the left in Labour, but it's Corbyn and many of his supporters' fault for simply refusing to take a long hard look at themselves and realise that too often their dislike of Israel strays into antisemitic conspiracy theory, language, and allying with people who really do hold dangerous extremist views. He's no martyr, except to his dwindling band of fans, media cheerleaders whose income depends on pushing grievance to a certain audience, who increasingly are on another planet to everyone else. Keep him out and ignore him. He'll fade into irrelevance except for the next time he just happens to be speaking alongside someone with some toxic views.
    I don't think this is doing Starmer any good. At the very least he needs to try and coax Corbyn into saying something slightly different, with the prospect of some sort of partial re-admission in return. None of Starmer's bust-ups with the left more broadly are doing him any favours, because a considerable part of the electorate just switches off and sees this as mood-music about moving back to the Blair years, rather than anything about the specific issue of anti-semitism. I think he should take a reasonably firm stand on the issue and draw a line under it, and then simultaneously offer olive branches to the left overall.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568

    Currently in the Smoke for the first time for 3 years. Feels totally normal other than the annoying masks.

    That was the impression I got when I was there on Thursday.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,508

    Get out of the hallway don’t block up the door, racing is for everyone.

    I’ve had a 12-1 winner with Greaneteen. A good story too.

    1 a piece with Malky now after his earlier win. Maybe I’m not mare of the week for once!
    Malky now two wins from 4 today. Super Stud. 🐴
  • I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121
    Hamilton’s quick time was set on the hard tyres, and he was well adrift on the softs. That leaves Mercedes with a slight problem as all the teams have more sets of the softs than the other tyres.
    They should be able to run the soft in Q1, but they can’t in Q2 for obvious reasons, nor in Q3 as it’s not fast enough.
    Which potentially gives Red Bull a tyre advantage for the race in certain circumstances.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121

    I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481

    @TheScreamingGovernor .
  • Mr. B, sounds like an odd but entertaining situation.
  • I've been Pfizered!

    AZ, AZ, PF

    I’m PF, PF and am not allowed my booster til January. I suspect it might be Moderna.
    PF, PF and PF booster. First, arm felt like I'd been kicked by a horse. Second no real reaction. Third, arm felt like I'd been kicked by a horse AND felt off, with a bad headache for a few hours.

    Fair price to pay to (hopefully) stay out of hospital...
    Well done!

    I had zero side-effects with either jag. Not even sore arm.
  • Mr. Eagles, governor? Not Grand Moff Eagles?
  • I now think the Lib Dems will narrowly win N Shropshire. I was initially sceptical but have changed my mind over the last week or so.

    I reckon

    LD 45
    Con 42
    Lab 8
    Others 5

    Turnout 48%
  • I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481

    Popcorn time.
  • Mr. Eagles, governor? Not Grand Moff Eagles?

    Nah, Moff is a typo/autocorrect disaster waiting to happen, plus Grand Moff Tarkin was a bit of a numpty.

    Governor or Viceroy it is for me.
  • Mr. Eagles, the Trade Federation viceroy was not exactly stellar...

    Also, Tarkin was great. Humbug to you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121

    Mr. B, sounds like an odd but entertaining situation.

    Possible yellow flag grid penalty for Hamilton. That could seal the championship.
    To be decided an hour before qualifying (why so late ?).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,508

    Get out of the hallway don’t block up the door, racing is for everyone.

    I’ve had a 12-1 winner with Greaneteen. A good story too.

    1 a piece with Malky now after his earlier win. Maybe I’m not mare of the week for once!
    Malky now two wins from 4 today. Super Stud. 🐴

    Yay!

    Samarrive 8-1

    Dance with me!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMJp_zXAUFg


  • Mr. B, possibly.

    The Gasly/Mazepin situation was not a good one (not Hamilton's fault, of course).
  • Mr. Eagles, the Trade Federation viceroy was not exactly stellar...

    Also, Tarkin was great. Humbug to you.

    Viceroy has great lineage.

    Tarkin was arrogant, 'Evacuate, In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!' is the epitome of arrogance and general numptiness.

    Also he missed the fact that the children of his de facto number 2 were behind the plot to destroy the Death Star, the biggest inside job in the galaxy.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481

    Disappointed they are going with “governor” instead of “sheriff”.

    It’s high time we had another sheriff of Nottingham(shire).
  • I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481

    Popcorn time.
    I seem to recall reading yesterday that JRM has said a categorical 'no' to this in Cabinet meetings. Presumably he represents at least some backbench thinking on this rather than just what the 18th century would think.

    So, yes, time to get some popcorn ready.
  • Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?
  • MJW said:

    Foxy said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    Not much, I would think. There is no reasoning with the splitters. Though if I were SKS, I would restore the whip at some decent interval, perhaps as part of a more general amnesty. No need to create martyrs.
    It would be the height of madness to restore the whip to Corbyn given he never apologised for what he said and has gone further in getting involved with people who explicitly endorse the kind of conspiracy theories around complaints about antisemitism on the left that got them into deep trouble in the first place. It would be the end of any authority Starmer has, a green light to the toxic elements of the far left that they're in the right, and create uproar in the Jewish community, almost 90% of whom (acc to several polls) see Corbyn as personally antisemitic. The Tories would hang it around his neck as evidence Labour had learned nothing from 2019 and were still at heart a party of ranting Corbynistas. It's a bit sad that Labour has to act in the way that it does in taking a tough line that's excluding certain parts of the left in Labour, but it's Corbyn and many of his supporters' fault for simply refusing to take a long hard look at themselves and realise that too often their dislike of Israel strays into antisemitic conspiracy theory, language, and allying with people who really do hold dangerous extremist views. He's no martyr, except to his dwindling band of fans, media cheerleaders whose income depends on pushing grievance to a certain audience, who increasingly are on another planet to everyone else. Keep him out and ignore him. He'll fade into irrelevance except for the next time he just happens to be speaking alongside someone with some toxic views.
    I don't think this is doing Starmer any good. At the very least he needs to try and coax Corbyn into saying something slightly different, with the prospect of some sort of partial re-admission in return. None of Starmer's bust-ups with the left more broadly are doing him any favours, because a considerable part of the electorate just switches off and sees this as mood-music about moving back to the Blair years, rather than anything about the specific issue of anti-semitism. I think he should take a reasonably firm stand on the issue and draw a line under it, and then simultaneously offer olive branches to the left overall.
    Problem I have is the idea that Corbyn is not allowed to defend himself personally against the more insane media attacks and wackier views from the posters on this site even if one thinks he could have handled things better and not spoken out immediately in the aftermath of the EHRC report.

    I think whether he should be allowed to stand again/the whip is more of a grey area and even I'm not too fussed about that either way personally (the fact that Margaret Hodge is standing down will defuse things as well) at but party member expulsion would be a case for legal action IMO.
  • I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481

    Gauleiters?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770

    I now think the Lib Dems will narrowly win N Shropshire. I was initially sceptical but have changed my mind over the last week or so.

    I reckon

    LD 45
    Con 42
    Lab 8
    Others 5

    Turnout 48%

    The Tories would certainly win if Paterson wasn't the outgoing MP. It's very hard to assess quite how much impact that will have. The new Tory candidate seems very good, but unfortunately for him it's about Paterson and Boris.

    On balance I think it'll be a very narrow Tory hold, and I think that the turnout will be up on Old Bexley & Sidcup precisely because the Tories have managed to mobilise some of their vote.

    I continue to fail to understand why anyone at all would vote LD though.
  • Mr. Eagles, Tarkin was arrogant. Still a very good villain.

    Darth Vader still holds the top spots in the intergalactic Worst Bring Your Child to Work Day list. It's hard to beat blowing up your daughter's adopted home planet.
  • I've often said I wanted to the first Governor of Yorkshire then the UK's first Directly Elected Dictator well now Michael Gove is making it happen.

    EXCL: Swathes of England could elect ‘governors’ under Michael Gove’s levelling up plans

    Target of all of England having a devolution deal with powers equivalent to London by 2030 set to feature in white paper


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1467063537461780481

    Gauleiters?
    Nah, that wanker Alex Salmond ruined the word Gauleiters.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    MJW said:

    Foxy said:

    I wonder how much the far left clamour to replace SKS would decrease if he were to let Corbyn back in the PLP. I expect it would by a considerable amount; the Corbynites' onolatry is rather perplexing.

    Not much, I would think. There is no reasoning with the splitters. Though if I were SKS, I would restore the whip at some decent interval, perhaps as part of a more general amnesty. No need to create martyrs.
    It would be the height of madness to restore the whip to Corbyn given he never apologised for what he said and has gone further in getting involved with people who explicitly endorse the kind of conspiracy theories around complaints about antisemitism on the left that got them into deep trouble in the first place. It would be the end of any authority Starmer has, a green light to the toxic elements of the far left that they're in the right, and create uproar in the Jewish community, almost 90% of whom (acc to several polls) see Corbyn as personally antisemitic. The Tories would hang it around his neck as evidence Labour had learned nothing from 2019 and were still at heart a party of ranting Corbynistas. It's a bit sad that Labour has to act in the way that it does in taking a tough line that's excluding certain parts of the left in Labour, but it's Corbyn and many of his supporters' fault for simply refusing to take a long hard look at themselves and realise that too often their dislike of Israel strays into antisemitic conspiracy theory, language, and allying with people who really do hold dangerous extremist views. He's no martyr, except to his dwindling band of fans, media cheerleaders whose income depends on pushing grievance to a certain audience, who increasingly are on another planet to everyone else. Keep him out and ignore him. He'll fade into irrelevance except for the next time he just happens to be speaking alongside someone with some toxic views.
    I don't think this is doing Starmer any good. At the very least he needs to try and coax Corbyn into saying something slightly different, with the prospect of some sort of partial re-admission in return. None of Starmer's bust-ups with the left more broadly are doing him any favours, because a considerable part of the electorate just see this as mood-music about moving back to the Blair years, rather than anything about the specific issue of anti-semitism. I think he should take a reasonably firm stand on the issue and draw a line under it, while simultaneously offering olive branches to the left overall.
    Oh there definitely should be olive branches - for example big policy proposals that encompass key wants from the left, but look, this can't be one. I think anyone suggesting Corbyn be readmitted just fundamentally misunderstands the seriousness of his behaviour and how Starmer and Labour have to draw a line if the left refuse to do so themselves. Letting him back in would be seen by those who have pushed the idea that it's all 'smears' rather than deeply held objections to his and their actions as a tacit admission they were right. It means the wound opened by antisemitism on the left will continue to fester. I have a feeling only the most fanatical will reject the chance of implementing policies they claim to believe in for the sake of one old man's right to defend the indefensible. It's of course not ideal that Labour's left flank is in pretty much open warfare with the leadership, but the alternative - having them inside and claiming vindication and power is far worse.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748

    Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    Is Gover proposing to reinstate the Heptarchy after Betty Windsor shakes off this mortal coil? Bad luck people of Sussex, we know who your first Queen (and Prince Consort) will be.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited December 2021
    Any attempt to put directly-elected mayors (or governors) atop county councils will be controversial, as it will beg the question - what are county councillors for?

    Although London devolution is generally deemed a moderate success, nobody has yet figured out what the London assembly members are for.

    Gove would be better advised to simply devolve to existing power structures.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,121
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,855

    Mr. Eagles, the Trade Federation viceroy was not exactly stellar...

    Also, Tarkin was great. Humbug to you.

    Viceroy has great lineage.

    Tarkin was arrogant, 'Evacuate, In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!' is the epitome of arrogance and general numptiness.

    Also he missed the fact that the children of his de facto number 2 were behind the plot to destroy the Death Star, the biggest inside job in the galaxy.
    Satrap.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748

    Any attempt to put directly-elected mayors (or governors) atop county councils will be controversial, as it will beg the question - what are county councillors for?

    Although London devolution is generally deemed a moderate success, nobody has yet figured out what the London assembly members are for.

    You know what we don’t have enough? Politicians. Said no one.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    moonshine said:

    Any attempt to put directly-elected mayors (or governors) atop county councils will be controversial, as it will beg the question - what are county councillors for?

    Although London devolution is generally deemed a moderate success, nobody has yet figured out what the London assembly members are for.

    You know what we don’t have enough? Politicians. Said no one.
    That’s the general tenor of comments underneath the Times article, and it’s the same sentiment that foiled the North East Assembly idea.

    It’s true, though. We don’t need *more* politicians, we just to need to give the existing local ones actual powers and money.
  • Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    I thought in Yorkshire they like blunt honesty? Chief narcissist and bullshitter of Yorkshire?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Eagles, the Trade Federation viceroy was not exactly stellar...

    Also, Tarkin was great. Humbug to you.

    Viceroy has great lineage.

    Tarkin was arrogant, 'Evacuate, In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!' is the epitome of arrogance and general numptiness.

    Also he missed the fact that the children of his de facto number 2 were behind the plot to destroy the Death Star, the biggest inside job in the galaxy.
    Satrap.
    Pro-consul.
    Vice-reine.
    Nabob.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,568

    I now think the Lib Dems will narrowly win N Shropshire. I was initially sceptical but have changed my mind over the last week or so.

    I reckon

    LD 45
    Con 42
    Lab 8
    Others 5

    Turnout 48%

    Why do you think the Tory share will drop by about twice as much as it did in Bexley?
  • Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    I can remember Margaret Thatcher complaining that the word “county” was inappropriate in England, as the country had never had the office of ‘count’, which was a German/Dutch title.

    Pre-Union, and for a long time post-Union, the Scottish “counties” were “shires” (in contrast to the politically separate burghs). Don’t really know the English history.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,219
    moonshine said:

    Breaking news mask update from Xmas shopping in Kent…!

    I’d say compliance was 99% in shops. A few weird souls were wearing them on the street and in their own cars. Bless. Some people still sticking with the panto in the cafes of wearing it to their table and taking it off when they sit down. Some moronic places still have signs commanding you to sanitise your hands to “stop the spread of covid”. These are generally the same places where the management are wearing cloth masks.

    I did comply with the mask mandate for the first time since about April because I’ve been feeling rather covidy for a week, even if the test came back negative. All in all it made what could have been quite a pleasant experience needlessly annoying.

    Amazon from a laptop in the pub from now on this Xmas for me I’m afraid Mr High Street.

    The sanitize hands thing could be dropped. We've known for over a year that the spread is via aerosols and large droplets rather than surfaces.

    Not sure what the latest science on where people pick it up from, but the link below gives an excellent summary.

    Perhaps:

    Aerosol: more than 65%
    Large Droplet: 30%
    Surface fomites: less than 5%

    https://first10em.com/covid-19-is-spread-by-aerosols-an-evidence-review/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,645

    Fantastic bright cold weather today - I was out delivering Xmas cards to members and really enjoyed it. Friends who tell me that walking is better than staring at a screen might even have a point? A novel thought.

    Sainsbury only about 80% masked, with one assistant and several customers not on board. It was more like 95% a few months ago.

    Exercise is brilliant, even in cold weather. Did a run earlier (of course!) and just been out for a pre-dusk bike ride with the little 'un. Only five miles, and quite a cold breeze, but it blew all the cobwebs away.

    Winter can be the best walking weather: clear blue skies, and shimmering blades of white-bearded grass underfoot.

    Spring is often little more than mud, mud, mud. I prefer winter for walking.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited December 2021

    Any attempt to put directly-elected mayors (or governors) atop county councils will be controversial, as it will beg the question - what are county councillors for?

    Although London devolution is generally deemed a moderate success, nobody has yet figured out what the London assembly members are for.

    Gove would be better advised to simply devolve to existing power structures.

    The problem with the London Assembly is that is has no legislative powers.

    What England needs is a parliament, not a carve-up by Gove the Jock.
  • NEW THREAD

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770

    Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    I can remember Margaret Thatcher complaining that the word “county” was inappropriate in England, as the country had never had the office of ‘count’, which was a German/Dutch title.

    Pre-Union, and for a long time post-Union, the Scottish “counties” were “shires” (in contrast to the politically separate burghs). Don’t really know the English history.
    Historically (c19) some of the most pro-Union people were Scottish. I find it quite hard to see what's changed. Perhaps an enthusiasm for opportunity then, and a percieved right to opportunity now?
  • moonshine said:

    Any attempt to put directly-elected mayors (or governors) atop county councils will be controversial, as it will beg the question - what are county councillors for?

    Although London devolution is generally deemed a moderate success, nobody has yet figured out what the London assembly members are for.

    You know what we don’t have enough? Politicians. Said no one.
    That’s the general tenor of comments underneath the Times article, and it’s the same sentiment that foiled the North East Assembly idea.

    It’s true, though. We don’t need *more* politicians, we just to need to give the existing local ones actual powers and money.
    Simples. Abolish the most incompetent and wasteful level of government: Westminster.
  • Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    I can remember Margaret Thatcher complaining that the word “county” was inappropriate in England, as the country had never had the office of ‘count’, which was a German/Dutch title.

    Pre-Union, and for a long time post-Union, the Scottish “counties” were “shires” (in contrast to the politically separate burghs). Don’t really know the English history.
    Counties evolved from Anglo-Saxon earldoms, and earl is equivalent to a count, indeed the wife of an earl is a countess. Shire is of course possible as well, in certain contexts (such as Knight of the Shire).

    Count is actually a Latin title, from comes, companion (of the emperor). The Dutch/German title is in fact Graf
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,023
    Gosh. There is a chap just walked down the train checking on mask compliance.

    Nobody been tasered yet.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,645
    Nigelb said:
    That's a great layout. Pete Waterman's recently done a large one that was shown at Chester Cathedral, and then there's McKinley
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=487gJ4_Pt0A

    I loved railway modelling when I was a kid - although I liked modelling buildings and structures more. The problem was, I liked to get things as accurate as I could, and there's only so much you can do at OO scale. I didn't have enough room or a purse big enough for O gauge. So I went to 1:1 scale and started volunteering at a preserved railway...
  • Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    Both refer to counties and we already have them (translated as earl in the case of counts). Border areas can of course have Marcher Lords. I don't think there is an historic term for regional governor. I presume England would be divided into the God-awful Government regions without localities being given the choice of where they want to be governed from. I imagibe the Cornish would want to go alone, for example, and I don't see why Hampshire can't, for example, it has a greater population than many States of the Union.

    But, please, no more tinkering. We need a proper federal constitutional settlement. I would settle for the Grundgesetz. And we need symmetry. Every country and region should have the same powers currently granted to Scotland.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,855

    Some on Twitter observes.

    "Governor" feels like the sort of title Oliver Cromwell would have given them. Can't we have Counts or Sheriffs instead?

    Both refer to counties and we already have them (translated as earl in the case of counts). Border areas can of course have Marcher Lords. I don't think there is an historic term for regional governor. I presume England would be divided into the God-awful Government regions without localities being given the choice of where they want to be governed from. I imagibe the Cornish would want to go alone, for example, and I don't see why Hampshire can't, for example, it has a greater population than many States of the Union.

    But, please, no more tinkering. We need a proper federal constitutional settlement. I would settle for the Grundgesetz. And we need symmetry. Every country and region should have the same powers currently granted to Scotland.
    Regional Commissioner. That was the title picked in the only (so far as I am aware) modern scheme of government planning for a symmetrical devolution scheme: after the bomb fell.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_seat_of_government
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,209

    DavidL said:

    A British employee of the UK Embassy in Berlin has been accused of passing official documents to Moscow agents. His arrest marks the third Russian espionage case in Germany in under a year.

    https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1466970514199494661?s=20

    We have secrets worth stealing? Blimey.
    I thought the current arrangement was that the Russians purchase them instead?
    It's probably the stuff we spied off the French.

    The Concordski technique. This time about submarines.
This discussion has been closed.