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Why Boris Johnson and the Tories may soon experience a surge in the polls – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,002
    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860
    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    Er - no. That's what we (including me) told you was happening when you said there would be an October lockdown because government departments were preparing for one.

    And, I might add, you stubbornly persisted in your belief 'it's being planned for so it must be going ahead' for several very annoying weeks, and were extremely rude to a number of people who pulled you up over it.

    As for your first point about complacency, surely the fact that your worst predictions haven't come to pass despite the fact we now have minimal restrictions in itself shows that that's not the case?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    We won’t.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,377
    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Not really.
    The consequences of infection, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, are vastly different. For most of us vaccinated, it was like a moderate flu bout.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Heathener said:

    We're in trouble. The lack of mask wearing and generally sloppy attitude of Johnson & Co. is once again leading us into trouble.

    Hospitalisation and death rates are going to rise steadily.

    This winter is going to be very tough.

    They are FALLING. Don’t let facts get in the way...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,106
    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    One sad milestone this week. The last of our Spanish/Portuguese nurses is leaving. We recruited about 10 in 2015. Most went back, or to France/Germany pre pandemic, but being redeployed to ICU was the final straw for the last one. She goes in a fortnight albeit with British dual nationality, but I don't think she will return.

    A lot of staff have had enough and are talking of going too, even Mrs Foxy and I are increasingly talking about it.

    Please don't go Foxy, the NHS is barely surviving as it is.
    Not planning to yet, but doing anything at the moment is like wading in treacle, hard work to make minimal progress. No beds, staff shortages, morale in the dumps, patients with loads of neglected conditions over the last 18 months. It really is no longer much of a pleasure, and generally I love my job and have great colleagues and juniors.

    One thing too is that while I haven't really been locked down is that my habits have changed. I went to my first meal out last week in over 6 months. It was nice, but used to be nearly a weekly event. I have re-learnt to enjoy simple pleasures such as reading, music, gardening, cooking, walking my dog across the fields, visiting the Isle of Wight family etc. In short, the cost of my leisure activities has reduced quite noticeably, and the simple life appeals more each day.
    Anecdotally am hearing much of this. Taking fewer hours, or changing jobs for less pay and less hassle. My brother just quit yesterday for less pay but better hours. They realised they simply don't need the money that much anymore. If they ever did.
    Yes and it is not just a British phenomenon. The Atlantic broke it down in several ways: the Great Resignation, the Great Rudeness, the Great Reset and the Great Reshuffling.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/great-resignation-accelerating/620382/

    I don't think that I will quit medicine, but I may well "retire and return" on pension plus 50% part time, perhaps in another part of the country, or just doing locums when I fancy. Mrs Foxy would quite like to move to Wilts/Dorset area, where she has family.
    Well I hope whatever you choose works out.

    Speaking personally (and in the negative) I think a big factor in being able to feel good post career is that you can look back and say, "Yep, I did something of real value and I did it to the best of my ability".

    This might not work for a Sinatra song but I do think it's the case.
    Weren't you.... an accountant?

    Forgive me if I got that wrong
    An honest accountant is a pearl beyond price. Not to mention a competent one when one has a tax problem.
    I gather, done right, it's a very taxing profession.
    The upper reaches of the profession are completely bent in my view. Entirely within the law of course,

    Actually thinking about it all accountants are on the make.

    Good and honest accountants are not that rare (though I'd agree about the upper reaches of the profession).
    Competent solicitors are much harder to find in my experience.
    What a waste of a life. Being an accountant

    You get one go on this earth. And you spend it totting up numbers to save people some tax? In an office? That's it?

    There are some jobs I find contemptible, others I find pitiful. Accountant seems to tick both boxes. A rarity
    Depends what you do with the money.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Geoghegt said:

    I know the UK calculates its Covid death rate on those who die 28 days after a Covid diagnosis. Is the any statistics showing what the normal death rate would be. If the were circa 40K positive tests each day over 28 days that's aprox a population of 1.12 million people - just think this would put the statistics in a better context.

    The Turing test needs tightening up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Can someone please find that tweet from yesterday that showed ICU occupancy for vaccinated (two-dose) vs. unvaccinated by age. The idea that two jabs offers no protection is utterly absurd.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    @RichPreston

    I feel run-down, fatigued, a regular but not constant cough, blocked nose. I'm generally fit and healthy (with good regular workouts for my respiratory system, thanks Pilates!). But I imagine this would be much worse if I wasn't vaccinated and my health situation were different.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,924
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,002
    In real elections, the Bulgarian presidential election second round has gone pretty much as you would have expected.

    Incumbent Ruman Radev, with 49.5% of the vote in the first round has got 63-65% of the vote in the run off and will comfortably defeat Anastas Gerdzhikov, the favoured candidate of Borisov's GERB candidate who is polling 33-35%.

    This would clear the way for the formation of a new coalition led by PP and including ITN, the Socialists and Democratic Bulgaria and Kiril Petkov to become Prime Minister.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,106
    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    One sad milestone this week. The last of our Spanish/Portuguese nurses is leaving. We recruited about 10 in 2015. Most went back, or to France/Germany pre pandemic, but being redeployed to ICU was the final straw for the last one. She goes in a fortnight albeit with British dual nationality, but I don't think she will return.

    A lot of staff have had enough and are talking of going too, even Mrs Foxy and I are increasingly talking about it.

    Please don't go Foxy, the NHS is barely surviving as it is.
    Not planning to yet, but doing anything at the moment is like wading in treacle, hard work to make minimal progress. No beds, staff shortages, morale in the dumps, patients with loads of neglected conditions over the last 18 months. It really is no longer much of a pleasure, and generally I love my job and have great colleagues and juniors.

    One thing too is that while I haven't really been locked down is that my habits have changed. I went to my first meal out last week in over 6 months. It was nice, but used to be nearly a weekly event. I have re-learnt to enjoy simple pleasures such as reading, music, gardening, cooking, walking my dog across the fields, visiting the Isle of Wight family etc. In short, the cost of my leisure activities has reduced quite noticeably, and the simple life appeals more each day.
    Anecdotally am hearing much of this. Taking fewer hours, or changing jobs for less pay and less hassle. My brother just quit yesterday for less pay but better hours. They realised they simply don't need the money that much anymore. If they ever did.
    Yes and it is not just a British phenomenon. The Atlantic broke it down in several ways: the Great Resignation, the Great Rudeness, the Great Reset and the Great Reshuffling.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/great-resignation-accelerating/620382/

    I don't think that I will quit medicine, but I may well "retire and return" on pension plus 50% part time, perhaps in another part of the country, or just doing locums when I fancy. Mrs Foxy would quite like to move to Wilts/Dorset area, where she has family.
    Well I hope whatever you choose works out.

    Speaking personally (and in the negative) I think a big factor in being able to feel good post career is that you can look back and say, "Yep, I did something of real value and I did it to the best of my ability".

    This might not work for a Sinatra song but I do think it's the case.
    Weren't you.... an accountant?

    Forgive me if I got that wrong
    An honest accountant is a pearl beyond price. Not to mention a competent one when one has a tax problem.
    I gather, done right, it's a very taxing profession.
    The upper reaches of the profession are completely bent in my view. Entirely within the law of course,

    Actually thinking about it all accountants are on the make.

    Good and honest accountants are not that rare (though I'd agree about the upper reaches of the profession).
    Competent solicitors are much harder to find in my experience.
    What a waste of a life. Being an accountant

    You get one go on this earth. And you spend it totting up numbers to save people some tax? In an office? That's it?

    There are some jobs I find contemptible, others I find pitiful. Accountant seems to tick both boxes. A rarity
    Depends what you do with the money.
    Indeed, partners at Ernst and Young and PWC earn well into 6 figures
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
  • MarylmiltonMarylmilton Posts: 12
    edited November 2021
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    I think a Witney type outcome in N Shropshire is quite plausible (and even a win would no longer shock me) , even if it doesn't signify too much nationally. I was initially quite dubious but such an outcome wouldn't be surprising at all even if only relates to local issues. It reminds me of the Brecon and Radnorshire by election (but without the recent liberal history).

    I think the Old Bexley and Sidcup by election is more interesting even though there's no chance of a Tory loss. But Labour does need a strong performance of around 30% at least to boost Starmer.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,377
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    One sad milestone this week. The last of our Spanish/Portuguese nurses is leaving. We recruited about 10 in 2015. Most went back, or to France/Germany pre pandemic, but being redeployed to ICU was the final straw for the last one. She goes in a fortnight albeit with British dual nationality, but I don't think she will return.

    A lot of staff have had enough and are talking of going too, even Mrs Foxy and I are increasingly talking about it.

    Please don't go Foxy, the NHS is barely surviving as it is.
    Not planning to yet, but doing anything at the moment is like wading in treacle, hard work to make minimal progress. No beds, staff shortages, morale in the dumps, patients with loads of neglected conditions over the last 18 months. It really is no longer much of a pleasure, and generally I love my job and have great colleagues and juniors.

    One thing too is that while I haven't really been locked down is that my habits have changed. I went to my first meal out last week in over 6 months. It was nice, but used to be nearly a weekly event. I have re-learnt to enjoy simple pleasures such as reading, music, gardening, cooking, walking my dog across the fields, visiting the Isle of Wight family etc. In short, the cost of my leisure activities has reduced quite noticeably, and the simple life appeals more each day.
    Anecdotally am hearing much of this. Taking fewer hours, or changing jobs for less pay and less hassle. My brother just quit yesterday for less pay but better hours. They realised they simply don't need the money that much anymore. If they ever did.
    Yes and it is not just a British phenomenon. The Atlantic broke it down in several ways: the Great Resignation, the Great Rudeness, the Great Reset and the Great Reshuffling.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/great-resignation-accelerating/620382/

    I don't think that I will quit medicine, but I may well "retire and return" on pension plus 50% part time, perhaps in another part of the country, or just doing locums when I fancy. Mrs Foxy would quite like to move to Wilts/Dorset area, where she has family.
    Well I hope whatever you choose works out.

    Speaking personally (and in the negative) I think a big factor in being able to feel good post career is that you can look back and say, "Yep, I did something of real value and I did it to the best of my ability".

    This might not work for a Sinatra song but I do think it's the case.
    Weren't you.... an accountant?

    Forgive me if I got that wrong
    An honest accountant is a pearl beyond price. Not to mention a competent one when one has a tax problem.
    I gather, done right, it's a very taxing profession.
    The upper reaches of the profession are completely bent in my view. Entirely within the law of course,

    Actually thinking about it all accountants are on the make.

    Good and honest accountants are not that rare (though I'd agree about the upper reaches of the profession).
    Competent solicitors are much harder to find in my experience.
    What a waste of a life. Being an accountant

    You get one go on this earth. And you spend it totting up numbers to save people some tax? In an office? That's it?

    There are some jobs I find contemptible, others I find pitiful. Accountant seems to tick both boxes. A rarity
    You either get the thrill of 'double entry' or you don't. And I did. Straightaway, I did. Still remember the first time. I was only 22 and oh boy.
    There's clearly no hope for you.
    😊
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Welcome, @Marylmilton
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Just been away with Mrs Anabob for a few blissful autumn days and nights in a luxury hotel. Fantastic walks and great dinners. The place was buzzing and apart from one or two staff wearing masks (out of about 50) it was like covid never happened.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    I think a Witney type outcome in N Shropshire is quite plausible, even if it doesn't signify too much nationally. I was initially quite dubious but such an outcome wouldn't be surprising at all even if it only to do with local issues. It reminds me of the Brecon and Radnorshire by election (but without the recent liberal history).

    I think the Bexley and Old Sidcup by election is more interesting even though there's no chance of a Tory loss. But Labour does need a strong performance of around 30% at least to boost Starmer.
    Thanks, Mags, but that is gibberish from start to finish. Badly Written Bot.
  • RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,106
    edited November 2021
    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.
    I don't mind Davey, ex Cameron Coalition Minister of course, positive and intelligent and on the Orange Book wing of the LDs and an Anglican. Moving on from Brexit as well.

    If we did have to have Starmer as PM I would hope he lacked a majority and needed Davey and the LDs as well as the SNP to be able to form a stable government.

    However while the LDs would not expect to beat the Tories and Labour in Old Bexley and Sidcup, falling behind RefUK too, which I think is a strong possibility, would not be great news for them and a boost to Tice
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,924
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    You might want to rewatch some of his live shows. There is cetainly politics in there. Not sure how you could possibly have watched them all and seen NO politics. You'd have to be halfway down your second bottle to miss it.
    When he was actually funny it was less so though. The more issue based he became the less funny.

    One of the all time greats though.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
    Doesn’t Israel have a rather large unvaxxed population as well?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,106

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
    Boosters every 6 months I agree are also vital
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    There is an axiomatic obsession with covid cases. And, as horrible as it is, a stigma attached to contracting it. Attitudes like that of @Heathener don’t help.
  • Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    I think Izzard once said "I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body" or words to that effect.

    Most "unusual" role of his was arguably as one of the July 1944 plot conspirators in Tom Cruise's "Valkyrie".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
    Doesn’t Israel have a rather large unvaxxed population as well?
    I think there was a fair few. No idea what has happened now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    So we can't go higher than 93k/day?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    There is an axiomatic obsession with covid cases. And, as horrible as it is, a stigma attached to contracting it. Attitudes like that of @Heathener don’t help.
    Well, speaking personally I do try to avoid people with Covid.

    But then, they should make things easier for me by isolating themselves.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,924
    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.
    I don't mind Davey, ex Cameron Coalition Minister of course, positive and intelligent and on the Orange Book wing of the LDs. Moving on from Brexit as well.

    If we did have to have Starmer as PM I would hope he lacked a majority and needed Davey and the LDs as well as the SNP to be able to form a stable government.

    However while the LDs would not expect to beat the Tories and Labour in Old Bexley and Sidcup, falling behind RefUK too, which I think is a strong possibility, would not be great news for them and a boost to Tice
    I don't "mind" him either. However I want to see the LDs as the opposition with a Tory government.

    LDs focussing where they can win makes total sense.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,002
    Omnium said:


    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.

    Apparently a lot of Conservatives don't think much of Johnson but they still support the Conservatives.

    Apparently a lot of Labour people aren't that impressed with Starmer but they still support Labour.

    Sometimes the "leader" isn't the be-all and end-all - given we've had Iain Duncan-Smith, Jeremy Cornyn and Jo Swinson as party leaders in the past 20 years, one might argue it's not the cream that has risen to the top but all were elected by the memberships of their party.

    I agree Sir Ed isn't the most charismatic man out there and given we have three party leaders all representing London constituencies, all white and all male, you could say we aren't exactly thinking outside the box.

    As for an LD alternative, it's a limited field in many senses - you know how this place works, as soon as you mention someone, up pops someone else to tell you they are rubbish and they'd never vote for them in a million years etc.

    It can be trivial such as how they look, how they sound, how they eat a bacon sandwich - ephemeral in every sense.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860
    edited November 2021
    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    Technically that's a class 43, which is bearable.

    If we get to bimode Azumas (class 800) we're truly buggered.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    So we can't go higher than 93k/day?
    The Class 98s used to be the Vale of Rheidol steam locomotives, and Class 99 were (believe it or not) the old Sealink ferries.

    Class 97s are various old locos and other vehicles in use by Network Rail as "departmental" stock.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    Ah, I see.

    (I think)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
    Boosters every 6 months I agree are also vital
    They might not be, or may be once a year for more at risk groups. There is nothing magic in the initial two dose regime, so those who think needing a booster is somehow indicative of failure are plain wrong. Many vaccinations are based on three shots.
    We will see what happens to immunity over the next few months. My guess is the boosters will keep a lot of older folk out of hospital, but we can’t help the fuckwits out there whom won’t even have one.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,273
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    malcolmg said:

    maaarsh said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Official figures show the UK has recorded 61 COVID-19 related deaths and 40,004 positive cases of the virus in the latest 24-hour period

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com

    40,004 (+9.4%) 61 deaths (-5.9%) admissions 881 (-4.7%)
    Never worth looking at sunday's, the numbers are always down. Compare the 7 day average and do not try to kid yourself and other people. Bit like using subsamples.
    The numbers have shown the falls for sometime now, apart from infections, and there is no evidence admissions or sadly deaths are rising

    Indeed my daughter and her family have had positive tests this last week but they are working from home whilst isolating

    The does seem to be quite a few locally contacting covid but the vaccine and boosters are working and keeping them out of hospital
    Unfortunately the vaccine and boosters are not working for those who refused to have them, the same people who are responsible for reducing the NHS to its knees going into the winter months.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

    My patience with them is wearing thin too. It's time to make the life of the unvaccinated difficult, rather than watch the NHS disintegrate and in response impose further restrictions on the substantial majority who have done the right thing.
    I agree. Vaccine passports for pubs and sporting events have always seemed to me to be a sensible way of incentivising the stupid. The obvious Darwinian benefit is just too slow and the consequences for others too severe to let this go on.
    You already have that rubbish in Scotland and there's no evidence it's made a blind bit of difference.
    Well maybe the fact that Scotland is at 1:95 whereas England is at 1:65 would say it could possibly make a difference. Something must be causing it to be 50% less in Scotland. Any idea of what rubbish it could be.

    PS: given it only started a few weeks ago it is a bit quick to have masses of evidence into the bargain.
    We lesser breeds in the territories should be grateful for any words of wisdom from the Bwanas.


    And then Tom he talked along and talked along, and says, le's all three slide out of here one of these nights and get an outfit , and go for howling adventures amongst the Injuns, over in the Territory, for a couple of weeks or two; and I says, all right, that suits me, but I ain't got no money for to buy the outfit, and I reckon I couldn't get none from home, because it's likely pap's been back before now, and got it all away from Judge Thatcher and drunk it up.
    British Territories citizens' rights accorfing to HMG website:

    "Unless you’re also a British citizen: you’re still subject to immigration controls - you do not have the automatic right to live or work in the UK."
    Make them overseas territories with seats in Parliament as France does
    Spain would actually go mental if we did that with Gibraltar. Likewise Argentina with the Falklands. And Bermuda doesn't seem to want it.
    Well tough, they are British Overseas Territories whose populations wish to remain British and we fought a war against Argentina to prove that to them in the case of the Falklands
    If they are so desperate to be British they should move to Surrey instead of living on an island in the South Atlantic.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
    Boosters every 6 months I agree are also vital
    Not necessarily. There is a belief in some quarters that “boosters” should not really be seen as boosters, but part of the optimal initial programme (on the basis eg. that it appears that the protection offered by boosters is actually greater than the initial two dose programme - ie. they do not so much act as a booster, so much as an enhancer). There are other vaccination programmes which historically have required “boosters” in this way. Basically a lot of it is guesswork.
  • ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    Technically that's a class 43, which is bearable.

    If we get to bimode Azumas (class 800) we're truly buggered.
    Much the same is true if you get into a bimode Azuma as a passenger.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    So we can't go higher than 93k/day?
    Nah there are a lot of 6 figure classes, mostly DMU/EMU etc. Do not want to see them in use...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ratters said:

    These vastly different council tax rates surely makes the case for a single annual property rate (or banded rates) applied nationally, rather than based on local council's net financing requirements.

    Which would make it considerably more difficult for working-class people to live in more expensive areas of the country.
    The current problem, though, is that poorer areas have more service demands than richer areas. They therefore have higher council tax charges, which encourage the flight of the more talented. (Why stay and pay more Council Tax when you can move to a richer part of the country and pay less? Only those whose Council Tax is subsidised by Central Government stay in high tax areas.)
    Is it not simply that the comparisons most commmonly used to show council tax in different areas, are completely spurious.

    How many “Band A” properties exist within the M25, and how many “Band E” properties exist in northern towns like Rotherham?

    Does the owner of a 2,000 sq ft, 3 bed semi, pay more or less council tax in London or Rotherham?
    That is a massive 3 bed semi lol. One thing, everywhere ought to be unitary. 2 tier is a farce that just adds jobs for the boys and expense.
    Only if town and parish councils get increased power too should we have universal unitary councils, otherwise there is no significant council with a local link to where people actually live rather than a town or city up to an hour away
    Town and parish councils are just full of power hungry whoppers
    If they think they will get power by being on a parish council they are in for a big disappointment!

    It's a mostly thankless task, very much dependent on having a good chair and a good clerk to do much. Larger towns have more scope to actually do things, but are at their worst when the 'power hungry' treat it like its national politics, rather than treat party labels (much more common on towns than parishes) as pretty lose affiliations.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,106

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    malcolmg said:

    maaarsh said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Official figures show the UK has recorded 61 COVID-19 related deaths and 40,004 positive cases of the virus in the latest 24-hour period

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com

    40,004 (+9.4%) 61 deaths (-5.9%) admissions 881 (-4.7%)
    Never worth looking at sunday's, the numbers are always down. Compare the 7 day average and do not try to kid yourself and other people. Bit like using subsamples.
    The numbers have shown the falls for sometime now, apart from infections, and there is no evidence admissions or sadly deaths are rising

    Indeed my daughter and her family have had positive tests this last week but they are working from home whilst isolating

    The does seem to be quite a few locally contacting covid but the vaccine and boosters are working and keeping them out of hospital
    Unfortunately the vaccine and boosters are not working for those who refused to have them, the same people who are responsible for reducing the NHS to its knees going into the winter months.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

    My patience with them is wearing thin too. It's time to make the life of the unvaccinated difficult, rather than watch the NHS disintegrate and in response impose further restrictions on the substantial majority who have done the right thing.
    I agree. Vaccine passports for pubs and sporting events have always seemed to me to be a sensible way of incentivising the stupid. The obvious Darwinian benefit is just too slow and the consequences for others too severe to let this go on.
    You already have that rubbish in Scotland and there's no evidence it's made a blind bit of difference.
    Well maybe the fact that Scotland is at 1:95 whereas England is at 1:65 would say it could possibly make a difference. Something must be causing it to be 50% less in Scotland. Any idea of what rubbish it could be.

    PS: given it only started a few weeks ago it is a bit quick to have masses of evidence into the bargain.
    We lesser breeds in the territories should be grateful for any words of wisdom from the Bwanas.


    And then Tom he talked along and talked along, and says, le's all three slide out of here one of these nights and get an outfit , and go for howling adventures amongst the Injuns, over in the Territory, for a couple of weeks or two; and I says, all right, that suits me, but I ain't got no money for to buy the outfit, and I reckon I couldn't get none from home, because it's likely pap's been back before now, and got it all away from Judge Thatcher and drunk it up.
    British Territories citizens' rights accorfing to HMG website:

    "Unless you’re also a British citizen: you’re still subject to immigration controls - you do not have the automatic right to live or work in the UK."
    Make them overseas territories with seats in Parliament as France does
    Spain would actually go mental if we did that with Gibraltar. Likewise Argentina with the Falklands. And Bermuda doesn't seem to want it.
    Well tough, they are British Overseas Territories whose populations wish to remain British and we fought a war against Argentina to prove that to them in the case of the Falklands
    If they are so desperate to be British they should move to Surrey instead of living on an island in the South Atlantic.
    Why? Most of them were born there, it is their home.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    Technically that's a class 43, which is bearable.

    If we get to bimode Azumas (class 800) we're truly buggered.
    Much the same is true if you get into a bimode Azuma as a passenger.
    They turned out not to be all they were cracked up to be.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,477
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    So we can't go higher than 93k/day?
    Double heading (more than one loco on a train).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    pigeon said:

    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Official figures show the UK has recorded 61 COVID-19 related deaths and 40,004 positive cases of the virus in the latest 24-hour period

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com

    40,004 (+9.4%) 61 deaths (-5.9%) admissions 881 (-4.7%)
    Never worth looking at sunday's, the numbers are always down. Compare the 7 day average and do not try to kid yourself and other people. Bit like using subsamples.
    The numbers have shown the falls for sometime now, apart from infections, and there is no evidence admissions or sadly deaths are rising

    Indeed my daughter and her family have had positive tests this last week but they are working from home whilst isolating

    The does seem to be quite a few locally contacting covid but the vaccine and boosters are working and keeping them out of hospital
    Unfortunately the vaccine and boosters are not working for those who refused to have them, the same people who are responsible for reducing the NHS to its knees going into the winter months.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

    My patience with them is wearing thin too. It's time to make the life of the unvaccinated difficult, rather than watch the NHS disintegrate and in response impose further restrictions on the substantial majority who have done the right thing.
    I agree. Vaccine passports for pubs and sporting events have always seemed to me to be a sensible way of incentivising the stupid. The obvious Darwinian benefit is just too slow and the consequences for others too severe to let this go on.
    Vaccine passports for pubs doesn’t just make life difficult for the unvaccinated. It makes life very difficult for the pubs expected to enforce them as well.
    Hopefully we'll be able to keep on doing without vaccine passports in England, but I question how much difference they would make even if we tried using them. AIUI they've had them in Germany all along and a fat lot of good it has done.

    That kind of measure is only going to get anti-vaxxers out of circulation and/or compel them to stop digging their heels in if it is made a condition of going to work. The large bulk of anti-vaxxers aren't pensioners: strip them of their income and they'll soon be forced to give in.
    Why though? The NHS isn’t about to keel over. The risk they are taking is with their own health. Why discriminate against fellow citizens to force them to take a medical intervention against their will?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,924
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.

    Apparently a lot of Conservatives don't think much of Johnson but they still support the Conservatives.

    Apparently a lot of Labour people aren't that impressed with Starmer but they still support Labour.

    Sometimes the "leader" isn't the be-all and end-all - given we've had Iain Duncan-Smith, Jeremy Cornyn and Jo Swinson as party leaders in the past 20 years, one might argue it's not the cream that has risen to the top but all were elected by the memberships of their party.

    I agree Sir Ed isn't the most charismatic man out there and given we have three party leaders all representing London constituencies, all white and all male, you could say we aren't exactly thinking outside the box.

    As for an LD alternative, it's a limited field in many senses - you know how this place works, as soon as you mention someone, up pops someone else to tell you they are rubbish and they'd never vote for them in a million years etc.

    It can be trivial such as how they look, how they sound, how they eat a bacon sandwich - ephemeral in every sense.
    I agree.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Look, even double vaccination does not stop you getting Covid, it just reduces your risk of hospitalisation and death from it.

    The fact is it may be with us for the rest of our lifetimes, never mind just 2 years, we have to learn to live with it and now most of us have been double jabbed get on with our lives
    Boosters are very effective at reducing transmission. Israel is back to very few cases a day now.
    Boosters every 6 months I agree are also vital
    They might not be, or may be once a year for more at risk groups. There is nothing magic in the initial two dose regime, so those who think needing a booster is somehow indicative of failure are plain wrong. Many vaccinations are based on three shots.
    We will see what happens to immunity over the next few months. My guess is the boosters will keep a lot of older folk out of hospital, but we can’t help the fuckwits out there whom won’t even have one.
    Yep there was something I saw the other day from the person who received the first booster (8 months ago I think he said). Apparently even now his antibody levels are off the chart ie. very little waning so far.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,422
    Geoghegt said:

    I know the UK calculates its Covid death rate on those who die 28 days after a Covid diagnosis. Is the any statistics showing what the normal death rate would be. If the were circa 40K positive tests each day over 28 days that's aprox a population of 1.12 million people - just think this would put the statistics in a better context.

    Between 17th September and 17th October there were 1,100,245 infections. If all these infections were as deadly as drinking a cup of tea you'd expect ~ 700 deaths between 17th October and 17th November mentioning 'within 28 days of the diagnosis' (Correcting properly for age it would be lower).

    There were around 4,500.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,477
    Charles said:

    pigeon said:

    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Official figures show the UK has recorded 61 COVID-19 related deaths and 40,004 positive cases of the virus in the latest 24-hour period

    For more on this and other news visit http://news.sky.com

    40,004 (+9.4%) 61 deaths (-5.9%) admissions 881 (-4.7%)
    Never worth looking at sunday's, the numbers are always down. Compare the 7 day average and do not try to kid yourself and other people. Bit like using subsamples.
    The numbers have shown the falls for sometime now, apart from infections, and there is no evidence admissions or sadly deaths are rising

    Indeed my daughter and her family have had positive tests this last week but they are working from home whilst isolating

    The does seem to be quite a few locally contacting covid but the vaccine and boosters are working and keeping them out of hospital
    Unfortunately the vaccine and boosters are not working for those who refused to have them, the same people who are responsible for reducing the NHS to its knees going into the winter months.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

    My patience with them is wearing thin too. It's time to make the life of the unvaccinated difficult, rather than watch the NHS disintegrate and in response impose further restrictions on the substantial majority who have done the right thing.
    I agree. Vaccine passports for pubs and sporting events have always seemed to me to be a sensible way of incentivising the stupid. The obvious Darwinian benefit is just too slow and the consequences for others too severe to let this go on.
    Vaccine passports for pubs doesn’t just make life difficult for the unvaccinated. It makes life very difficult for the pubs expected to enforce them as well.
    Hopefully we'll be able to keep on doing without vaccine passports in England, but I question how much difference they would make even if we tried using them. AIUI they've had them in Germany all along and a fat lot of good it has done.

    That kind of measure is only going to get anti-vaxxers out of circulation and/or compel them to stop digging their heels in if it is made a condition of going to work. The large bulk of anti-vaxxers aren't pensioners: strip them of their income and they'll soon be forced to give in.
    Why though? The NHS isn’t about to keel over. The risk they are taking is with their own health. Why discriminate against fellow citizens to force them to take a medical intervention against their will?
    Did you not see the discussion earlier today about the state of the NHS? With Foxy et al.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Pulpstar said:

    Geoghegt said:

    I know the UK calculates its Covid death rate on those who die 28 days after a Covid diagnosis. Is the any statistics showing what the normal death rate would be. If the were circa 40K positive tests each day over 28 days that's aprox a population of 1.12 million people - just think this would put the statistics in a better context.

    Between 17th September and 17th October there were 1,100,245 infections. If all these infections were as deadly as drinking a cup of tea you'd expect ~ 700 deaths between 17th October and 17th November mentioning 'within 28 days of the diagnosis' (Correcting properly for age it would be lower).

    There were around 4,500.
    Depends on the kind of tea, surely? :)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,961
    I have booked accommodation to visit my daughter in Bath in mid-December. I am still confident that I will be able to take this trip without any significant restrictions on what I can do while I am there (if any) excepting those following from my wife's caution.

    Hopefully it will be dry and we can go to the rooftop open-air hot springs.

    I have more doubts on the weather than on Covid.
  • Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    I think Izzard once said "I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body" or words to that effect.

    Most "unusual" role of his was arguably as one of the July 1944 plot conspirators in Tom Cruise's "Valkyrie".
    Wasn't as miscast as Cruise as von Stauffenberg imho.

    Izzard as the choleric captain in the rubbish remake of Whisky Galore was up there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,184
    edited November 2021

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    I think a Witney type outcome in N Shropshire is quite plausible (and even a win would no longer shock me) , even if it doesn't signify too much nationally. I was initially quite dubious but such an outcome wouldn't be surprising at all even if only relates to local issues. It reminds me of the Brecon and Radnorshire by election (but without the recent liberal history).

    I think the Old Bexley and Sidcup by election is more interesting even though there's no chance of a Tory loss. But Labour does need a strong performance of around 30% at least to boost Starmer.
    How can a by-election where you see no chance of an upset and the only thrills to be had are seeing whether Starmer clears 30%, possibly be “more interesting” than one where, by your own account, there is a chance of a major upset and hence the outcome is not entirely predictable????
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Ratters said:

    These vastly different council tax rates surely makes the case for a single annual property rate (or banded rates) applied nationally, rather than based on local council's net financing requirements.

    If you that then what is the point of local government? They just become delivery agents for central government
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    I have booked accommodation to visit my daughter in Bath in mid-December. I am still confident that I will be able to take this trip without any significant restrictions on what I can do while I am there (if any) excepting those following from my wife's caution.

    Hopefully it will be dry and we can go to the rooftop open-air hot springs.

    I have more doubts on the weather than on Covid.

    Genuine question - does it matter if it’s raining if you are going in the hot water?
    Hoping you enjoy the trip. Sadly the Christmas market is not running this year which is a huge shame, as it’s always a highlight for us in the lead up to Christmas.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    The LDs ought not to feature at all. I simply don't understand how they manage it. They're clearly nowhere.

    OB&S - who knows. North Shropshire - choose your protest vote.

    You really don't like the Liberal Democrats, do you?

    I'm no more objective I suppose - it's obvious the party has abandoned Old Bexley & Sidcup for a tilt at North Shropshire. That makes sense on so many levels.

    Whether it delivers a positive outcome remains to be seen but no one will be paying attention to the LD vote in Old Bexley & Sidcup (except you perhaps). It's an election to see whether Labour can be in any way competitive - the highest vote for the party in recent times was 37.5% in 2001. If Labour are anywhere near that I'd consider that a good result for them.

    Conservatives sub 50%? I think that would be interesting.
    I think a Witney type outcome in N Shropshire is quite plausible (and even a win would no longer shock me) , even if it doesn't signify too much nationally. I was initially quite dubious but such an outcome wouldn't be surprising at all even if only relates to local issues. It reminds me of the Brecon and Radnorshire by election (but without the recent liberal history).

    I think the Old Bexley and Sidcup by election is more interesting even though there's no chance of a Tory loss. But Labour does need a strong performance of around 30% at least to boost Starmer.
    How can a by-election where you see no chance of an upset and the only thrills to be had are seeing whether Starmer clears 30%, possibly be “more interesting” than one where, by your own account, there is a chance of a major upset and hence the outcome is not entirely predictable????
    Maybe because of the circumstances surrounding each?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,477

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    I think Izzard once said "I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body" or words to that effect.

    Most "unusual" role of his was arguably as one of the July 1944 plot conspirators in Tom Cruise's "Valkyrie".
    Wasn't as miscast as Cruise as von Stauffenberg imho.

    Izzard as the choleric captain in the rubbish remake of Whisky Galore was up there.
    What did you think of Whisky Galore, the book? I don't know how far Compton Mackenzie got the local zeitgeist right (though he was a lot better than Waugh E. in the Sword of Honour trilogy).
  • Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Not really.
    The consequences of infection, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, are vastly different. For most of us vaccinated, it was like a moderate flu bout.
    And that is exactly the case with my daughter, husband and grandson all confirmed with covid last week

    Our son called today and said a colleague has had covid, was off for three weeks, and is now on a phased return

    He like my daughter's family are vaccinated and needed no medical intervention

    @Heathener posts are much as her first one, always negative, and increasingly a minority voice which seems to be in denial of just how much better we are in the UK, as covid becomes endemic and we learn to live with it, most probably for years
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    edited November 2021
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.

    Apparently a lot of Conservatives don't think much of Johnson but they still support the Conservatives.

    Apparently a lot of Labour people aren't that impressed with Starmer but they still support Labour.

    Sometimes the "leader" isn't the be-all and end-all - given we've had Iain Duncan-Smith, Jeremy Cornyn and Jo Swinson as party leaders in the past 20 years, one might argue it's not the cream that has risen to the top but all were elected by the memberships of their party.

    I agree Sir Ed isn't the most charismatic man out there and given we have three party leaders all representing London constituencies, all white and all male, you could say we aren't exactly thinking outside the box.

    As for an LD alternative, it's a limited field in many senses - you know how this place works, as soon as you mention someone, up pops someone else to tell you they are rubbish and they'd never vote for them in a million years etc.

    It can be trivial such as how they look, how they sound, how they eat a bacon sandwich - ephemeral in every sense.
    Anecdote on leaders. I've spent today eating and drinking with six 'young' people (all in their 30s). All educated and reasonably politically aware. I asked them who the leader of the Lib Dems was; only one knew. By contrast, all knew and had an opinion on Sturgeon, although there were no Scottish connections. Unsurprisingly, they were fluent on Johnson and Starmer. I then asked for impressions of Ed Davey; none at all, even from the one who knew who he was. I suspect he really has failed to get any cut through and is not a well-known figure, despite being around for a long time.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,273

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    Just a bit of fun.

    If the daily Covid number matches the number of a locomotive, I try to find a photo of that locomotive to post a link to.

    Others have also joined in.

    As I have little knowledge of steam locomotive numbering I will leave any kettle references to those better informed and stick to diesels (or electrics if the numbers really take off).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
  • Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    I think Izzard once said "I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body" or words to that effect.

    Most "unusual" role of his was arguably as one of the July 1944 plot conspirators in Tom Cruise's "Valkyrie".
    Wasn't as miscast as Cruise as von Stauffenberg imho.

    Izzard as the choleric captain in the rubbish remake of Whisky Galore was up there.
    What did you think of Whisky Galore, the book? I don't know how far Compton Mackenzie got the local zeitgeist right (though he was a lot better than Waugh E. in the Sword of Honour trilogy).
    It's an absolute age since I read it and it's probably been swamped by the several times I've watched the film (the original), I suspect I'd find it a bit of a curiosity if I read it now. No doubt of his genuine interest in and sympathy for Hebrideans though.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    Winter starts on November 1 and ends, in a good year, on 1 May.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,273
    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The power cars are numbered 43xxx so not so bad.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,273

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    Power cars. Not locomotives.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    For the NHS there are only two seasons - Summer and Winter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,106
    edited November 2021

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:


    You're mistaken. I quite like the LDs generally, but see Davey as worse than hopeless.

    Apparently a lot of Conservatives don't think much of Johnson but they still support the Conservatives.

    Apparently a lot of Labour people aren't that impressed with Starmer but they still support Labour.

    Sometimes the "leader" isn't the be-all and end-all - given we've had Iain Duncan-Smith, Jeremy Cornyn and Jo Swinson as party leaders in the past 20 years, one might argue it's not the cream that has risen to the top but all were elected by the memberships of their party.

    I agree Sir Ed isn't the most charismatic man out there and given we have three party leaders all representing London constituencies, all white and all male, you could say we aren't exactly thinking outside the box.

    As for an LD alternative, it's a limited field in many senses - you know how this place works, as soon as you mention someone, up pops someone else to tell you they are rubbish and they'd never vote for them in a million years etc.

    It can be trivial such as how they look, how they sound, how they eat a bacon sandwich - ephemeral in every sense.
    Anecdote on leaders. I've spent today eating and drinking with six 'young' people (all in their 30s). All educated and reasonably politically aware. I asked them who the leader of the Lib Dems was; only one knew. By contrast, all knew and had an opinion on Sturgeon, although there were no Scottish connections. Unsurprisingly, they were fluent on Johnson and Starmer. I then asked for impressions of Ed Davey; none at all, even from the one who knew who he was. I suspect he really has failed to get any cut through and is not a well-known figure, despite being around for a long time.
    To be fair under FPTP as LD leader he only really needs to cut through in about 20 seats beyond those the LDs already hold, virtually all of them Tory held in the posher parts of London and the South.

    If he manages that then Davey will almost certainly be Kingmaker with the balance of power in 2023/24
  • Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    You might want to rewatch some of his live shows. There is cetainly politics in there. Not sure how you could possibly have watched them all and seen NO politics. You'd have to be halfway down your second bottle to miss it.
    When he was actually funny it was less so though. The more issue based he became the less funny.

    One of the all time greats though.
    Just been rewatching the bit about empire (do you have a flag?), still brilliant all these years later.
    DEATH STAR CANTEEN
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Not really.
    The consequences of infection, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, are vastly different. For most of us vaccinated, it was like a moderate flu bout.
    And that is exactly the case with my daughter, husband and grandson all confirmed with covid last week

    Our son called today and said a colleague has had covid, was off for three weeks, and is now on a phased return

    He like my daughter's family are vaccinated and needed no medical intervention

    @Heathener posts are much as her first one, always negative, and increasingly a minority voice which seems to be in denial of just how much better we are in the UK, as covid becomes endemic and we learn to live with it, most probably for years
    Like this double post that apparently didn't exist:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511523/#Comment_3511523

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uks-daily-coronavirus-data-looks-a-bit-fishy-says-professor-behind-uks-largest-symptom-study-12371076

    Tim Spector and ZOE study suggests the true figure probably nearer 60,000.

    As I said, that fits what I'm seeing (anecdotally). A lot of people are refusing to get tested and a significant number are also refusing to self-isolate...And the DWP have been told to expect lockdown in October.


    Or this one:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511516#Comment_3511516

    I have heard today from a reasonable source that Government departments have been told to expect lockdown in October.

    ZOE are reporting likely around 60,000 cases a day. Anecdotally that fits what I'm encountering.
  • Charles said:

    Ratters said:

    These vastly different council tax rates surely makes the case for a single annual property rate (or banded rates) applied nationally, rather than based on local council's net financing requirements.

    If you that then what is the point of local government? They just become delivery agents for central government
    That's happened to a depressingly large extent already. Councils are stuck in the increasingly narrow window between statutory minium services and statutory maximum council tax increases. And every year, social care costs get a bit bigger.

    Going back to the earlier conversation about parish councils, my impression is that they work pretty well as local civic pride units. And the sort of things they do- the flower beds, the community hall and so on- are the kinds of thing that could make a real difference to visible levelling up. They're the kind of things that are often the first to go when a larger council is feeling the pinch. Is there mileage in urban parish councils; say the size of a London Borough ward (Romford Town is about 16k, which might be a bit big) doing the hyperlocal stuff? Would people be happier to pay towards things that will be in their street, or the next one along?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    The end of January is always the worst time of year. Dismal weather, short days and nothing to look forward to for a while.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Just been away with Mrs Anabob for a few blissful autumn days and nights in a luxury hotel. Fantastic walks and great dinners. The place was buzzing and apart from one or two staff wearing masks (out of about 50) it was like covid never happened.

    Fantastic, great to hear you living life as it should.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Not really.
    The consequences of infection, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, are vastly different. For most of us vaccinated, it was like a moderate flu bout.
    And that is exactly the case with my daughter, husband and grandson all confirmed with covid last week

    Our son called today and said a colleague has had covid, was off for three weeks, and is now on a phased return

    He like my daughter's family are vaccinated and needed no medical intervention

    @Heathener posts are much as her first one, always negative, and increasingly a minority voice which seems to be in denial of just how much better we are in the UK, as covid becomes endemic and we learn to live with it, most probably for years
    Like this double post that apparently didn't exist:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511523/#Comment_3511523

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uks-daily-coronavirus-data-looks-a-bit-fishy-says-professor-behind-uks-largest-symptom-study-12371076

    Tim Spector and ZOE study suggests the true figure probably nearer 60,000.

    As I said, that fits what I'm seeing (anecdotally). A lot of people are refusing to get tested and a significant number are also refusing to self-isolate...And the DWP have been told to expect lockdown in October.


    Or this one:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511516#Comment_3511516

    I have heard today from a reasonable source that Government departments have been told to expect lockdown in October.

    ZOE are reporting likely around 60,000 cases a day. Anecdotally that fits what I'm encountering.
    How, anecdotally, can you tell the difference between 30k and 60k a day?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,239
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Geoghegt said:

    I know the UK calculates its Covid death rate on those who die 28 days after a Covid diagnosis. Is the any statistics showing what the normal death rate would be. If the were circa 40K positive tests each day over 28 days that's aprox a population of 1.12 million people - just think this would put the statistics in a better context.

    Between 17th September and 17th October there were 1,100,245 infections. If all these infections were as deadly as drinking a cup of tea you'd expect ~ 700 deaths between 17th October and 17th November mentioning 'within 28 days of the diagnosis' (Correcting properly for age it would be lower).

    There were around 4,500.
    Depends on the kind of tea, surely? :)
    Indeed - tea with a friend of Putin?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    MrEd said:

    Just been away with Mrs Anabob for a few blissful autumn days and nights in a luxury hotel. Fantastic walks and great dinners. The place was buzzing and apart from one or two staff wearing masks (out of about 50) it was like covid never happened.

    Fantastic, great to hear you living life as it should.
    Cheers sir 👍
  • RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    Power cars. Not locomotives.
    The class is officially the fastest diesel locomotive in the world, with an absolute maximum speed of 148 mph (238 km/h), and a regular service speed of 125 mph (201 km/h). The record run was led by 43102 (43302) and trailed by 43159.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    The end of January is always the worst time of year. Dismal weather, short days and nothing to look forward to for a while.
    Quite. We need another Xmas round about the end of Feb.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    PB is littered with predictions of lockdown at some vaguely defined point in the future.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    The end of January is always the worst time of year. Dismal weather, short days and nothing to look forward to for a while.
    Quite. We need another Xmas round about the end of Feb.
    Bringing forward BST to the first Sunday in March would help. Never been clear why we have to drag GMT out until the final weekend of that month.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    The end of January is always the worst time of year. Dismal weather, short days and nothing to look forward to for a while.
    That’s my birthday you’re talking about! ;)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Not really.
    The consequences of infection, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, are vastly different. For most of us vaccinated, it was like a moderate flu bout.
    And that is exactly the case with my daughter, husband and grandson all confirmed with covid last week

    Our son called today and said a colleague has had covid, was off for three weeks, and is now on a phased return

    He like my daughter's family are vaccinated and needed no medical intervention

    @Heathener posts are much as her first one, always negative, and increasingly a minority voice which seems to be in denial of just how much better we are in the UK, as covid becomes endemic and we learn to live with it, most probably for years
    Like this double post that apparently didn't exist:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511523/#Comment_3511523

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uks-daily-coronavirus-data-looks-a-bit-fishy-says-professor-behind-uks-largest-symptom-study-12371076

    Tim Spector and ZOE study suggests the true figure probably nearer 60,000.

    As I said, that fits what I'm seeing (anecdotally). A lot of people are refusing to get tested and a significant number are also refusing to self-isolate...And the DWP have been told to expect lockdown in October.


    Or this one:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511516#Comment_3511516

    I have heard today from a reasonable source that Government departments have been told to expect lockdown in October.

    ZOE are reporting likely around 60,000 cases a day. Anecdotally that fits what I'm encountering.
    How, anecdotally, can you tell the difference between 30k and 60k a day?
    Well, you can’t.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,355
    Geoghegt said:

    I know the UK calculates its Covid death rate on those who die 28 days after a Covid diagnosis. Is the any statistics showing what the normal death rate would be. If the were circa 40K positive tests each day over 28 days that's aprox a population of 1.12 million people - just think this would put the statistics in a better context.

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    One sad milestone this week. The last of our Spanish/Portuguese nurses is leaving. We recruited about 10 in 2015. Most went back, or to France/Germany pre pandemic, but being redeployed to ICU was the final straw for the last one. She goes in a fortnight albeit with British dual nationality, but I don't think she will return.

    A lot of staff have had enough and are talking of going too, even Mrs Foxy and I are increasingly talking about it.

    Please don't go Foxy, the NHS is barely surviving as it is.
    Not planning to yet, but doing anything at the moment is like wading in treacle, hard work to make minimal progress. No beds, staff shortages, morale in the dumps, patients with loads of neglected conditions over the last 18 months. It really is no longer much of a pleasure, and generally I love my job and have great colleagues and juniors.

    One thing too is that while I haven't really been locked down is that my habits have changed. I went to my first meal out last week in over 6 months. It was nice, but used to be nearly a weekly event. I have re-learnt to enjoy simple pleasures such as reading, music, gardening, cooking, walking my dog across the fields, visiting the Isle of Wight family etc. In short, the cost of my leisure activities has reduced quite noticeably, and the simple life appeals more each day.
    Anecdotally am hearing much of this. Taking fewer hours, or changing jobs for less pay and less hassle. My brother just quit yesterday for less pay but better hours. They realised they simply don't need the money that much anymore. If they ever did.
    Yes and it is not just a British phenomenon. The Atlantic broke it down in several ways: the Great Resignation, the Great Rudeness, the Great Reset and the Great Reshuffling.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/great-resignation-accelerating/620382/

    I don't think that I will quit medicine, but I may well "retire and return" on pension plus 50% part time, perhaps in another part of the country, or just doing locums when I fancy. Mrs Foxy would quite like to move to Wilts/Dorset area, where she has family.
    Well I hope whatever you choose works out.

    Speaking personally (and in the negative) I think a big factor in being able to feel good post career is that you can look back and say, "Yep, I did something of real value and I did it to the best of my ability".

    This might not work for a Sinatra song but I do think it's the case.
    Weren't you.... an accountant?

    Forgive me if I got that wrong
    An honest accountant is a pearl beyond price. Not to mention a competent one when one has a tax problem.
    I gather, done right, it's a very taxing profession.
    The upper reaches of the profession are completely bent in my view. Entirely within the law of course,

    Actually thinking about it all accountants are on the make.

    Good and honest accountants are not that rare (though I'd agree about the upper reaches of the profession).
    Competent solicitors are much harder to find in my experience.
    What a waste of a life. Being an accountant

    You get one go on this earth. And you spend it totting up numbers to save people some tax? In an office? That's it?

    There are some jobs I find contemptible, others I find pitiful. Accountant seems to tick both boxes. A rarity
    In Italy, one of the ways I improved my language was with the odd film, generally with my flatmates. We tend to think as foreign cinema as all art house, all Bertolucci and Il Postino and La Dolce Vita, but the truth is predictably far more mundane.

    And so, one day, we had some girlfriends over and braved the all conquering juggernaut of Italian cinema at the time, an enjoyably decent stab at a heavily Curtis influenced romcom about an overly selfless rural accountant and a troupe of rather beautiful dancers whose bus had become lost.

    As it was a Curtisian thing to have non obvious heroes, I did enquire, and none of the Italians thought it the least bit odd that an accountant was feted as as central a pillar of the community, if not more, as the doctor or priest. It turned out that in real life, the person who could help in the national sport of tax avoidance was indeed regarded in this way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,239

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eddie Izzard. If anyone's looking for woke + unquestionably funny.

    Such a dumb remark.

    Izzard is - - or was - a comic genius. His best stand up is some of the greatest of all time. But it is not Woke: there is no politics at all in his material. Just because towards the end of his stand up career he started wearing lippy and then eventually skirts does not make it "Woke" - it's a man thinking about becoming a woman, that's all.

    Stewart Lee is a very funny political comedian, but again he is not Woke. He's just political. Of the Left.

    There are plenty of funny Left and Right wing comedians, there are no funny Woke comedians. Woke is the Orwellian anti-sex league applied to humour. THAT'S NOT FUNNY
    I think Izzard once said "I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body" or words to that effect.

    Most "unusual" role of his was arguably as one of the July 1944 plot conspirators in Tom Cruise's "Valkyrie".
    Wasn't as miscast as Cruise as von Stauffenberg imho.

    Izzard as the choleric captain in the rubbish remake of Whisky Galore was up there.
    I actually though that Cruise as Stauffenberg worked rather well.

    I quite liked the newspaper review that got upset that all the German generals were portrayed as a bunch of neurotic wibblers - this was exactly true to life. The generals spent all their time vapouring about whether killing Hitler was compatible with their honour, to the point they had no time to actually kill him
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,239
    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    PB is littered with predictions of lockdown at some vaguely defined point in the future.
    And predictions that cases are about the skyrocket. And predictions that cases are about to fall because we've reach "herd immunity"

    I predict that the predictions won't stop no matter how often they're wrong.
    Are your predictions of predictions by reporting day, or day of prediction of prediction?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    PB is littered with predictions of lockdown at some vaguely defined point in the future.
    I don't see admissions getting much more problematic before Christmas.

    Boris will not cancel Christmas itself.

    There will be an inevitable spike in admissions two weeks after Christmas. The size of this spike is unknown, but is still the most obvious time for a panicked Boris to go for another lockdown.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    edited November 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Another good day today and seeing my counsellor this work, still on the medication and will be for some time

    I hope it continues to recharge your Battery, Horse.
    Yes, best wishes to you CHB.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,982
    It's fantastic that vaccine hesitancy is so much lower in the UK than most other European countries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,377
    The last person to beat Johnson in an election became an accountant, so there's that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,273

    RobD said:

    I don’t understand the train meme, when images of trains are posted next to covid stats. (Today’s numbers look decent by the way)

    TOPS numbering of the engines. So a class 40 engine, might be number 40 004. Numbers of cases have been great for this. Ideally we don’t want deltics and we do want shutters, except the shunters wouldn’t work (08 class).
    We certainly don't want any of those intercity 125s.
    The engines for those are Class 43s! (eg. 43001)
    Power cars. Not locomotives.
    The class is officially the fastest diesel locomotive in the world, with an absolute maximum speed of 148 mph (238 km/h), and a regular service speed of 125 mph (201 km/h). The record run was led by 43102 (43302) and trailed by 43159.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST)
    Whoever wrote that needs to be sent to the salt mines for re-education.

    I suppose you think that just because they want to self-identify as locomotives then that is fine.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,565
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the Senior Reporter and anchor for BBC World News, has just tested positive and he's triple jabbed, wears a mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Not really.
    The consequences of infection, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, are vastly different. For most of us vaccinated, it was like a moderate flu bout.
    And that is exactly the case with my daughter, husband and grandson all confirmed with covid last week

    Our son called today and said a colleague has had covid, was off for three weeks, and is now on a phased return

    He like my daughter's family are vaccinated and needed no medical intervention

    @Heathener posts are much as her first one, always negative, and increasingly a minority voice which seems to be in denial of just how much better we are in the UK, as covid becomes endemic and we learn to live with it, most probably for years
    Like this double post that apparently didn't exist:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511523/#Comment_3511523

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uks-daily-coronavirus-data-looks-a-bit-fishy-says-professor-behind-uks-largest-symptom-study-12371076

    Tim Spector and ZOE study suggests the true figure probably nearer 60,000.

    As I said, that fits what I'm seeing (anecdotally). A lot of people are refusing to get tested and a significant number are also refusing to self-isolate...And the DWP have been told to expect lockdown in October.


    Or this one:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3511516#Comment_3511516

    I have heard today from a reasonable source that Government departments have been told to expect lockdown in October.

    ZOE are reporting likely around 60,000 cases a day. Anecdotally that fits what I'm encountering.
    In general, I think it's fair to say that those who predict runaway Covid and further lockdowns are actually rather hoping for that outcome.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm afraid that we may need to accept that the true proportion of the country vaccinated is closer to 20% i.e. those triple jabbed and even then it's not foolproof. Rich Preston, the senior reporter and anchor for BBC world news has just test positive and he's triple jabbed, wears mask everywhere and observes social distancing.

    https://twitter.com/RichPreston/status/1462408815207452677?s=20

    We have a long way still to go with this pandemic. At least 2 years. This winter will be tough for everyone in Europe, including the UK.

    Sorry. Wish it were not so, believe me.

    Likely to be as accurate as your predictions of October lockdown, for one very good reason.

    It doesn't matter if you test positive if you are not going to become seriously ill as a result. That's what vaccines, even just one or two doses, have been very good at. They don't stop you getting it, but they do cut the likelihood of getting ill by an order of magnitude.

    That's why Austria is locking down and we're not.
    Complacency has bitten us on the behind every time.

    I didn't predict an October lockdown anywhere. Ever. I said preparations were being made for that contingency in Gov't departments, which they were. So I was right.

    And my actual prediction was that this winter I wouldn't be surprised to see us hit 100,000 cases a day. Which we will.
    That's a silly 'insight'. Of course the Civil Service has contingencies, every statement out of gov mentions a possible new variant turning up which would screw us again.

    I think a reasonable worst case scenario with Delta for two weeks after Christmas is cases roughly double what they are now.

    Whether we need new measures depends on flu etc and general tolerance for lockdown. This is the fun bit of winter - Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Christmas, Hogmanay, Burns night. It's then completely rubbish until May (April if lucky).
    Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night are in winter.

    News to me.

    You really do learn something new every day on PB.
    ....

    My point is the part of the year where you walk home from work in the dark is interrupted by a series of fun holidays.

    I find spring (particularly last year) takes way longer to arrive than you expect, and that's exactly when we may have to lock down again.
    PB is littered with predictions of lockdown at some vaguely defined point in the future.
    I don't see admissions getting much more problematic before Christmas.

    Boris will not cancel Christmas itself.

    There will be an inevitable spike in admissions two weeks after Christmas. The size of this spike is unknown, but is still the most obvious time for a panicked Boris to go for another lockdown.

    Not necessarily true. Kids off school for two weeks. Boosters to all by then. People are already mixing like it’s 2019.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,860
    Nigelb said:

    The last person to beat Johnson in an election became an accountant, so there's that.

    Michael Gove has become an accountant?

    Incidentally, apropos of nothing, the best typo I ever read was in a book on Victorian morality, where the 1861 Sexual Offences Act prohibited sex acts between 'consulting male auditors.'

    Goodness only knows how both autocorrect came up with it and the proof reader missed it.

    Only time I was thrown out of the Hugh Owen Library at Aber, because I was laughing so much somebody complained.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,982
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    One sad milestone this week. The last of our Spanish/Portuguese nurses is leaving. We recruited about 10 in 2015. Most went back, or to France/Germany pre pandemic, but being redeployed to ICU was the final straw for the last one. She goes in a fortnight albeit with British dual nationality, but I don't think she will return.

    A lot of staff have had enough and are talking of going too, even Mrs Foxy and I are increasingly talking about it.

    Please don't go Foxy, the NHS is barely surviving as it is.
    Not planning to yet, but doing anything at the moment is like wading in treacle, hard work to make minimal progress. No beds, staff shortages, morale in the dumps, patients with loads of neglected conditions over the last 18 months. It really is no longer much of a pleasure, and generally I love my job and have great colleagues and juniors.

    One thing too is that while I haven't really been locked down is that my habits have changed. I went to my first meal out last week in over 6 months. It was nice, but used to be nearly a weekly event. I have re-learnt to enjoy simple pleasures such as reading, music, gardening, cooking, walking my dog across the fields, visiting the Isle of Wight family etc. In short, the cost of my leisure activities has reduced quite noticeably, and the simple life appeals more each day.
    Anecdotally am hearing much of this. Taking fewer hours, or changing jobs for less pay and less hassle. My brother just quit yesterday for less pay but better hours. They realised they simply don't need the money that much anymore. If they ever did.
    Yes and it is not just a British phenomenon. The Atlantic broke it down in several ways: the Great Resignation, the Great Rudeness, the Great Reset and the Great Reshuffling.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/great-resignation-accelerating/620382/

    I don't think that I will quit medicine, but I may well "retire and return" on pension plus 50% part time, perhaps in another part of the country, or just doing locums when I fancy. Mrs Foxy would quite like to move to Wilts/Dorset area, where she has family.
    Well I hope whatever you choose works out.

    Speaking personally (and in the negative) I think a big factor in being able to feel good post career is that you can look back and say, "Yep, I did something of real value and I did it to the best of my ability".

    This might not work for a Sinatra song but I do think it's the case.
    Weren't you.... an accountant?

    Forgive me if I got that wrong
    An honest accountant is a pearl beyond price. Not to mention a competent one when one has a tax problem.
    What makes you think accountants aren't honest?
This discussion has been closed.