Bu**er. Something hit me halfway through my run today. Felt like sh*t after just three miles; struggled to complete a little over 10KM. Stomach ache, headache, nausea. Very unusual symptoms for me.
Came back to an email from school, saying Covid cases in the little 'uns class had accelerated over the last two days, and that they are encouraging us to book a PCR test for him over the weekend.
So I've just taken an LFT test, and am awaiting the results. Hoping it was just that the milk I had with my grape nuts this morning was a little off. Or exhaustion from all the running ...
From my experience if you have a strong case of Covid it will show up on the LFT in less than a couple of minutes.
Anecdotally where we are Covid is now hitting the primary schools. Before half term it was the secondaries. My Y12 daughter's school of over 1,300 students has just 5 current cases whereas in some weeks before half term they had over 100. My Y4 son's junior school of less than 400 students there are now 12 off in Y6 alone and I suspect more will follow. One of my friend's daughters in Y6 got it and has now spread it to the 2 other children and him.
Yeah I did another test today and the positive line came up after a few seconds. The positive PCR came through at last too. And then my wife tested positive today. This bastard virus is still out there, stay safe everyone.
Key line "we find that serving in office almost doubled the wealth of Conservative MPs, but had no discernible financial benefits for Labour MPs."
Labour has 203 seats - to have a majority they need something like 322 (assuming Sinn Fein don't send MPs).
Where are those 119 seats, given Labours issues in Scotland (which previously sent 50+ labour MPs into Parliament) they just don't exist.
For political purposes Labour need to win about 119 seats for a majority. For betting purposes it needs to win (net) 122/3 - to be at 325/6.
This requires a Black Swan. About 26 of their top 150 targets are held by the SNP. Among their top 150 targets (statistically) are seats they will never win - Hexham for example, or Rushcliffe, or Macclesfield. All their top 150 are held by Tories or SNP.
Their Black Swan requires the following: SNP to lose ground to Labour The Tories to lose more or less the entire red wall The Tories to lose seats to Labour they have never lost in modern times, including in the south - such as Basingstoke.
While Labour leading the next government is easy - it's about a 50% chance - actually winning remains out of sight for now.
I don't agree with this at all. It's hardly a black swan when it happened 16 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 24 years ago. Fortunes change very quickly in politics, and it's very easy to imagine events that could precipitate such a changeover. Remember, Labour got where they are today. It's hardly beyond the realm of imagination to think the Conservatives can land themselves in a similar situation. A couple of white swans is easily enough to tip the electoral see-saw the other way.
Labour's problem remains Scotland. They simply can't win enough seats south of the wall to win a majority without it being a landslide win for them. I know those happen now and then but its not an obvious play to sit and wait to win swathes of leafy England again.
They need Scotland. And I cannot see how they get it back, at least not yet. All political parties falter eventually, but I don't see how the SNP landslide reverses bigly within the next 2 years.
Yes. To get the sort of landslide shift needed to have a majority of one, (let alone a working majority) Labour have a mountain to climb. In 1997 there were several relevant factors: the Tories had an insoluble problem with both political and moral reputation, like now only worse, in a world which was a generation more moral and less cynical than now. Much of Scotland was still Labour. And Labour had put the work into moderation, presentation and leadership at a level of genius which is miles away from Labour now. Labour still had heavyweight, bruising politicians in it. Compare with now...
Yep. Starmer no Blair. SNP unlikely to collapse completely, even if Conservatives self-destruct.
I don't put the likelihood as high as Philip, but there's value in laying Labour and - probably - in the Tory majority (I would put the probability of that > 36%). Only slight wobble on that is the complete ineptitude, political as well as policy, shown over the last few weeks.
I'm only on Con most seats and laying the Labour majority (both placed some time ago). I'm sticking with that, I think. If I didn't have any bets on next GE I'd be tempted by the Con majority. All those bets are against what I hope will happen, except maybe the Lab majority where I might still prefer a Lib-Lab coalition.
If Sturgeon is still FM at the time of the next General Election, Labour have little chance in Scotland. She has Reagan levels qualities of Teflon attaching to her and a high personal vote.
But if she goes, then conceivably Central Belt voters may put (to some extent) the constitutional question to one side, and decide pragmatically that getting rid of the Tories at Westminster can best be achieved by voting Labour. Remember these areas used to deliver a titanic Labour vote and there remains a fair amount of goodwill towards the party.
Also, Starmer, personally, dour as he is, fits the Scottish psyche pretty well. The one part of the country where Theresa May played well in 2017 was Scotland (12 gains). Scots like dour politicians. Sir Keir may surprise us yet.
The trouble I have with that analysis is that the SNP are already displacing Tories at Westminster fairly [edit] successfully. So if that is your aim, why vote Labour? IIRC all the existing Tory seats are Tory-SNP battlegrounds, so again why vote Labour there?
Yougov Scottish subsample today has the SNP on 40% and the Tories on 24%, would be a swing of 2% from SNP to the Tories since 2019 and see the Tories gain Gordon from the SNP.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I am not anti everything the govt does however I think @RochdalePioneers has spoken a lot of sense on this since the start of this whole fiasco. Just because he is anti govt a lot of the time doesn’t mean he is always wrong. I live in the former red wall area and there is a fair bit of disappointment and feeling let down from what I can tell.
Haven't seen any source for this story, just this tweet quoted -
Paul Delaney @coaimpaul Priti Patel is to make the political wing of Hamas illegal under the Terrorism Act. It means anyone who expresses support for Hamas or flies their flag will be in breach of the law. Her Israeli handlers are now demanding more from her, while they murder with impunity. https://twitter.com/coaimpaul/status/1461614417427288064
When I googled images of the Hamas flag, lots of them are from a story earlier in the year about Germany introducing the same law earlier this year.
Are the German government also thought to have Israeli handlers, or is expression of support for Hamas just widely condemned?
Incidentally I happened to click on the link for the story from Al Jazeera, where the cookie warning seems rather ominous..
"You rely on Al Jazeera for truth and transparency"
Dont really see what this will do and is part of the "something must be seen to be do something and be seen to be able to solve all issues " type of government social media especially encourages - bit like telling people to wear useless facemasks in summer in most of Europe (England an honourable exception)
Seems a big freedom of speech issue to me. I don't think Hamas is a threat to the UK and anyone should be free to support them, however misguided that is.
To the small extent that I give a fuck about any of this train bollocks the thing that puzzles me is why Johnson is doing it. He's going to be long gone before it's the inevitable expensive fiasco and he clearly doesn't give a toss about spending money so why is he binning it? Is he just pathologically addicted to breaking promises?
Someone's knifing him. Probably Rishi - he can pluck numbers out of his arse to frighten Johnson in the absolute certainty Johnson won't understand them.
The only thing that makes sense is that Sunak has panicked about interest rate rises whacking the public finances and has therefore somehow scared Johnson into breaking cast iron promises over rail. Even that doesn't make sense as this is investment over decades not day to day spending.
So we are left with just Sunak trying to help bring forward the day Johnson is booted out.
I'm not convinced. I think a more likely scenario is that Johnson wants to be able to make plenty of new expensive promises at the next election, and Sunak has told him he has to jettison some of his expensive promises from the last election first.
This might sound like a political tactic with diminishing returns, but then I've been continually surprised by the general public's willingness to trust Johnson, so I am ready to be amazed when they do so again.
The bridge to Ireland is back on!
I thought it was a 3-way tunnel, with a roundabout underneath the Isle Of Man.
It's an easier fantasy to imagine than the fantasy improvements announced for the ECML?
https://twitter.com/RAIL is currently trying to identify the flows - and one is literally the need to redesign every station between London and Northallerton followed by Durham and Newcastle (I exclude Darlington only because that's now in progress).
And most of those projects would be £x00m projects by themselves because it requires redesigning everything.
Part of the issue is that projects on existing routes are expensive and disruptive. The Derby resignalling and layout alterations cost £200 million in 2018. The Werrington dive-under north of Peterborough (an amazing project) costs £200 million.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
Haven't seen any source for this story, just this tweet quoted -
Paul Delaney @coaimpaul Priti Patel is to make the political wing of Hamas illegal under the Terrorism Act. It means anyone who expresses support for Hamas or flies their flag will be in breach of the law. Her Israeli handlers are now demanding more from her, while they murder with impunity. https://twitter.com/coaimpaul/status/1461614417427288064
When I googled images of the Hamas flag, lots of them are from a story earlier in the year about Germany introducing the same law earlier this year.
Are the German government also thought to have Israeli handlers, or is expression of support for Hamas just widely condemned?
Incidentally I happened to click on the link for the story from Al Jazeera, where the cookie warning seems rather ominous..
"You rely on Al Jazeera for truth and transparency"
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I am not anti everything the govt does however I think @RochdalePioneers has spoken a lot of sense on this since the start of this whole fiasco. Just because he is anti govt a lot of the time doesn’t mean he is always wrong. I live in the former red wall area and there is a fair bit of disappointment and feeling let down from what I can tell.
It is not his arguments that are the issue, it is the way he reacts to other opinions and generally is overbearing and calling people stupid is not a way to win an argument
He needs to get on the back benches for the divorce so the alimony is based on £82,000 income
This incident really says everything that needs saying about him
You're really taking the New European as a credible source?
Its a pro-EU zealot Daily Express with no readers.
I know that.
The remark was made, or wasn't, in the presence of 40 journalists. I take the report plus the declining to issue legal proceedings, in conjunction, as being about as certain as anything in this life is.
Allegedly.
Besides which he's already had an affair behind her back. So its hardly like the report is damaging either his reputation or a happy marriage.
Haven't seen any source for this story, just this tweet quoted -
Paul Delaney @coaimpaul Priti Patel is to make the political wing of Hamas illegal under the Terrorism Act. It means anyone who expresses support for Hamas or flies their flag will be in breach of the law. Her Israeli handlers are now demanding more from her, while they murder with impunity. https://twitter.com/coaimpaul/status/1461614417427288064
When I googled images of the Hamas flag, lots of them are from a story earlier in the year about Germany introducing the same law earlier this year.
Are the German government also thought to have Israeli handlers, or is expression of support for Hamas just widely condemned?
Incidentally I happened to click on the link for the story from Al Jazeera, where the cookie warning seems rather ominous..
"You rely on Al Jazeera for truth and transparency"
Dont really see what this will do and is part of the "something must be seen to be do something and be seen to be able to solve all issues " type of government social media especially encourages - bit like telling people to wear useless facemasks in summer in most of Europe (England an honourable exception)
To the small extent that I give a fuck about any of this train bollocks the thing that puzzles me is why Johnson is doing it. He's going to be long gone before it's the inevitable expensive fiasco and he clearly doesn't give a toss about spending money so why is he binning it? Is he just pathologically addicted to breaking promises?
Someone's knifing him. Probably Rishi - he can pluck numbers out of his arse to frighten Johnson in the absolute certainty Johnson won't understand them.
The only thing that makes sense is that Sunak has panicked about interest rate rises whacking the public finances and has therefore somehow scared Johnson into breaking cast iron promises over rail. Even that doesn't make sense as this is investment over decades not day to day spending.
So we are left with just Sunak trying to help bring forward the day Johnson is booted out.
I'm not convinced. I think a more likely scenario is that Johnson wants to be able to make plenty of new expensive promises at the next election, and Sunak has told him he has to jettison some of his expensive promises from the last election first.
This might sound like a political tactic with diminishing returns, but then I've been continually surprised by the general public's willingness to trust Johnson, so I am ready to be amazed when they do so again.
The bridge to Ireland is back on!
I thought it was a 3-way tunnel, with a roundabout underneath the Isle Of Man.
It's an easier fantasy to imagine than the fantasy improvements announced for the ECML?
https://twitter.com/RAIL is currently trying to identify the flows - and one is literally the need to redesign every station between London and Northallerton followed by Durham and Newcastle (I exclude Darlington only because that's now in progress).
And most of those projects would be £x00m projects by themselves because it requires redesigning everything.
Part of the issue is that projects on existing routes are expensive and disruptive. The Derby resignalling and layout alterations cost £200 million in 2018. The Werrington dive-under north of Peterborough (an amazing project) costs £200 million.
Darlington is £140m and that is just to move the Middlesbrough line off the ECML by adding platforms to the East of the existing ECML lines.
They haven't yet mentioned what is going to happen to trains to Bishop Auckland but everyone knows that branch line will be terminating at Darlington.
Haven't seen any source for this story, just this tweet quoted -
Paul Delaney @coaimpaul Priti Patel is to make the political wing of Hamas illegal under the Terrorism Act. It means anyone who expresses support for Hamas or flies their flag will be in breach of the law. Her Israeli handlers are now demanding more from her, while they murder with impunity. https://twitter.com/coaimpaul/status/1461614417427288064
When I googled images of the Hamas flag, lots of them are from a story earlier in the year about Germany introducing the same law earlier this year.
Are the German government also thought to have Israeli handlers, or is expression of support for Hamas just widely condemned?
Incidentally I happened to click on the link for the story from Al Jazeera, where the cookie warning seems rather ominous..
"You rely on Al Jazeera for truth and transparency"
Dont really see what this will do and is part of the "something must be seen to be do something and be seen to be able to solve all issues " type of government social media especially encourages - bit like telling people to wear useless facemasks in summer in most of Europe (England an honourable exception)
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
To the small extent that I give a fuck about any of this train bollocks the thing that puzzles me is why Johnson is doing it. He's going to be long gone before it's the inevitable expensive fiasco and he clearly doesn't give a toss about spending money so why is he binning it? Is he just pathologically addicted to breaking promises?
Someone's knifing him. Probably Rishi - he can pluck numbers out of his arse to frighten Johnson in the absolute certainty Johnson won't understand them.
The only thing that makes sense is that Sunak has panicked about interest rate rises whacking the public finances and has therefore somehow scared Johnson into breaking cast iron promises over rail. Even that doesn't make sense as this is investment over decades not day to day spending.
So we are left with just Sunak trying to help bring forward the day Johnson is booted out.
I'm not convinced. I think a more likely scenario is that Johnson wants to be able to make plenty of new expensive promises at the next election, and Sunak has told him he has to jettison some of his expensive promises from the last election first.
This might sound like a political tactic with diminishing returns, but then I've been continually surprised by the general public's willingness to trust Johnson, so I am ready to be amazed when they do so again.
The bridge to Ireland is back on!
I thought it was a 3-way tunnel, with a roundabout underneath the Isle Of Man.
It's an easier fantasy to imagine than the fantasy improvements announced for the ECML?
https://twitter.com/RAIL is currently trying to identify the flows - and one is literally the need to redesign every station between London and Northallerton followed by Durham and Newcastle (I exclude Darlington only because that's now in progress).
And most of those projects would be £x00m projects by themselves because it requires redesigning everything.
I did point at the claimed journey time saving yesterday as "how will they do that". Similarly the report claims part of the ECML improvements will be extending the trains to "up to 12 cars". Which categorically will not fit at Kings Cross.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I am not anti everything the govt does however I think @RochdalePioneers has spoken a lot of sense on this since the start of this whole fiasco. Just because he is anti govt a lot of the time doesn’t mean he is always wrong. I live in the former red wall area and there is a fair bit of disappointment and feeling let down from what I can tell.
Yes and given it came from a died in the wool Tory and Boris groupie makes it even more biased rather than bearing any resemblance to fact. Rochdale is anti government but his posts are reality. What is amazing is the amount of Tories still in thrall to Boris and the current shambolic Tory government. You have to be pretty special to not have been sickened by this bunch.
Haven't seen any source for this story, just this tweet quoted -
Paul Delaney @coaimpaul Priti Patel is to make the political wing of Hamas illegal under the Terrorism Act. It means anyone who expresses support for Hamas or flies their flag will be in breach of the law. Her Israeli handlers are now demanding more from her, while they murder with impunity. https://twitter.com/coaimpaul/status/1461614417427288064
When I googled images of the Hamas flag, lots of them are from a story earlier in the year about Germany introducing the same law earlier this year.
Are the German government also thought to have Israeli handlers, or is expression of support for Hamas just widely condemned?
Incidentally I happened to click on the link for the story from Al Jazeera, where the cookie warning seems rather ominous..
"You rely on Al Jazeera for truth and transparency"
Dont really see what this will do and is part of the "something must be seen to be do something and be seen to be able to solve all issues " type of government social media especially encourages - bit like telling people to wear useless facemasks in summer in most of Europe (England an honourable exception)
To the small extent that I give a fuck about any of this train bollocks the thing that puzzles me is why Johnson is doing it. He's going to be long gone before it's the inevitable expensive fiasco and he clearly doesn't give a toss about spending money so why is he binning it? Is he just pathologically addicted to breaking promises?
Someone's knifing him. Probably Rishi - he can pluck numbers out of his arse to frighten Johnson in the absolute certainty Johnson won't understand them.
The only thing that makes sense is that Sunak has panicked about interest rate rises whacking the public finances and has therefore somehow scared Johnson into breaking cast iron promises over rail. Even that doesn't make sense as this is investment over decades not day to day spending.
So we are left with just Sunak trying to help bring forward the day Johnson is booted out.
I'm not convinced. I think a more likely scenario is that Johnson wants to be able to make plenty of new expensive promises at the next election, and Sunak has told him he has to jettison some of his expensive promises from the last election first.
This might sound like a political tactic with diminishing returns, but then I've been continually surprised by the general public's willingness to trust Johnson, so I am ready to be amazed when they do so again.
The bridge to Ireland is back on!
I thought it was a 3-way tunnel, with a roundabout underneath the Isle Of Man.
It's an easier fantasy to imagine than the fantasy improvements announced for the ECML?
https://twitter.com/RAIL is currently trying to identify the flows - and one is literally the need to redesign every station between London and Northallerton followed by Durham and Newcastle (I exclude Darlington only because that's now in progress).
And most of those projects would be £x00m projects by themselves because it requires redesigning everything.
I did point at the claimed journey time saving yesterday as "how will they do that". Similarly the report claims part of the ECML improvements will be extending the trains to "up to 12 cars". Which categorically will not fit at Kings Cross.
And Kings Cross definitely doesn't have any space to the North to extend the platforms - given where the junctions are I think a 12 car train would result in some platforms being inaccessible.
Nigel Harris @RAIL · 46m ...and yet Shapps spin yesterday was that this plan is specifically aimed at improving local services!
This is a major political miscalculation by No. 10.
Boris is about to drive his car off a towering political cliff. How could he avoid that?
Hmmm...
Yesterday the Government announced both faster trains and more local trains on the same tracks. And while one or other options may be achievable without extra capacity there is no way both the announced aims can be achieved
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
How about me then? There is nothing in what RD says that isn't 100% accurate no matter how much you dislike the fact..
But tell me, exactly what actual improvements were announced yesterday that can and will be started within the next 5-10 years?
HS2 is ongoing and other schemes will commence but in a total 96 billion investment, including Birmingham to Manchester, it is going to take a very long time
However, persuading yourself and others on here is not going to be possible, so I believe we should agree to disagree but not resort to name calling including stupid and other arrogant attitudes
That just isn't the case though. You can't say £96bn investment when half of it is already being spent and most of the other half isn't costed. Almost nothing of the new stuff announced yesterday has a detailed plan, never mind a costed business case, never mind Treasury approval.
That isn't my opinion. Thats what the Integrated Rail Plan document says. And as it says that, it means that Shapps and Johnson are either ignorant of what it says or are lying. Nor am I suggesting you are stupid, I (and I'm not alone) am saying that they think voters are stupid.
Its like someone else up thread confidently saying "this delivers quicker" and "this prioritises regional connectivity". Whilst I know that is what the politicians are saying, they are being contradicted by the report they are talking about.
We someone says the sky is green, it is not partisan bickering or being insulting or being arrogant to say that it is blue.
Are the FIA going to penalise Verstappen for his unacceptable driving last weekend, or let him off and encourage more of the same ?
(BBC)...Ferrari driver Charles Leclerc, for example, pointed out that if what Verstappen did - running wide and forcing a driver who was ahead into the corner off the track to defend his position - goes by without penalty, then “overtaking on the outside is going to be very difficult”.
Leclerc, who lost a race victory to Verstappen in Austria in 2019 to one of these types of calls, when the Red Bull driver forced him off at Turn Three to take the lead, said: “Whatever the decision is I will adapt my driving to it, so I’m fine with both.”
And he said - as he said at the time - that he changed his driving for the next race after Verstappen got away with it. Which led directly to their intense scrap over many laps at the next race in Silverstone.
“As soon as I knew it wasn’t a penalty for max in Austria,” Leclerc said, “I came to Silverstone and I changed my driving. I think it’s a bit the same for every driver, we always try to race at the limit of what we are allowed to do and that’s what I will do in case these things are allowed.”
And McLaren have questions, too. In Austria this year, Lando Norris was given a five-second penalty for forcing Sergio Perez off the track. Team boss Andreas Seidl said: “Lando got a penalty in Austria for something that from our point of view was debatable. You can definitely argue that what happened in Austria was Lando’s corner, different from what we have seen in Brazil.
"So we are very interested in not necessarily the ruling of today but more understanding what (race director) Michael (Masi) will brief to the drivers in the briefing on how they see things moving forward. Because whatever the outcome is, it will definitely change the approach of the drivers to a certain manoeuvres on track.”...
It wouldn't surprise me if they let him off - and then threaten to penalise anyone who does the same...
They’re letting him off, so we’re going to get a demolition derby in Qatar this weekend.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
1. I don't think people are stupid. The politicians think people are stupid. As so many regional newspapers are openly reporting. 2. £96bn is the made up number that they are feeding to people who they think are stupid. It cannot be validated by the document they are selling, by reason or by mathematics 3. Other views are legitimate. Other facts are not.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
Are the FIA going to penalise Verstappen for his unacceptable driving last weekend, or let him off and encourage more of the same ?
(BBC)...Ferrari driver Charles Leclerc, for example, pointed out that if what Verstappen did - running wide and forcing a driver who was ahead into the corner off the track to defend his position - goes by without penalty, then “overtaking on the outside is going to be very difficult”.
Leclerc, who lost a race victory to Verstappen in Austria in 2019 to one of these types of calls, when the Red Bull driver forced him off at Turn Three to take the lead, said: “Whatever the decision is I will adapt my driving to it, so I’m fine with both.”
And he said - as he said at the time - that he changed his driving for the next race after Verstappen got away with it. Which led directly to their intense scrap over many laps at the next race in Silverstone.
“As soon as I knew it wasn’t a penalty for max in Austria,” Leclerc said, “I came to Silverstone and I changed my driving. I think it’s a bit the same for every driver, we always try to race at the limit of what we are allowed to do and that’s what I will do in case these things are allowed.”
And McLaren have questions, too. In Austria this year, Lando Norris was given a five-second penalty for forcing Sergio Perez off the track. Team boss Andreas Seidl said: “Lando got a penalty in Austria for something that from our point of view was debatable. You can definitely argue that what happened in Austria was Lando’s corner, different from what we have seen in Brazil.
"So we are very interested in not necessarily the ruling of today but more understanding what (race director) Michael (Masi) will brief to the drivers in the briefing on how they see things moving forward. Because whatever the outcome is, it will definitely change the approach of the drivers to a certain manoeuvres on track.”...
It wouldn't surprise me if they let him off - and then threaten to penalise anyone who does the same...
They’re letting him off, so we’re going to get a demolition derby in Qatar this weekend.
Bottas's sole job is taking Max out at at least 1 of the next 3 races.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I am not anti everything the govt does however I think @RochdalePioneers has spoken a lot of sense on this since the start of this whole fiasco. Just because he is anti govt a lot of the time doesn’t mean he is always wrong. I live in the former red wall area and there is a fair bit of disappointment and feeling let down from what I can tell.
Yes and given it came from a died in the wool Tory and Boris groupie makes it even more biased rather than bearing any resemblance to fact. Rochdale is anti government but his posts are reality. What is amazing is the amount of Tories still in thrall to Boris and the current shambolic Tory government. You have to be pretty special to not have been sickened by this bunch.
Remember that I grew up in one part of the red wall and lived in another part for years. I've been very politically active in the red wall, and when the Tories are smashing it out of the park I have said so. Did I not say "nailed on Tory gain" for Hartlepool as soon as Mike Hill took the Chiltern Hundreds?
The idea that I am some Rayner-esque foaming Tory hater is daft.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
Anna Soubry @Anna_Soubry · 2h Listening to @grantshapps on #Today it’s as if he’s taken a mind bending hallucinatory substance. Shapps is spinning the cancellation of #HS2 E leg & #HS3 as being better for passengers & investment/ levelling up than honouring the promise to deliver them both. The arrogance.
He repeated his 12m from Bradford to Leeds promise this morning, not as an aspiration, but saying "it will happen this decade". Ditto tripling the capacity between Leeds and Manchester.
Its laughable pig ignorance. Why promise stuff that absolutely cannot be delivered?
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
Hang on. Criticising Rafiq is *not* the same as defending the people, and behaviour, he was complaining about.
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
Not significant is the weasel excuse. Stewards are satisfied it doesn't add anything to the other available evidence they ignored.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
Not significant is the weasel excuse. Stewards are satisfied it doesn't add anything to the other available evidence they ignored.
Verstappen has effectively been given permission to run Hamilton off the track again in repeat circumstances - and has every incentive to do so. Hamilton, of course, cannot risk a crash if he wants to win the championship.
I wonder how robust Bottas might now be in such a situation...
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
...The stewards accepted the evidence was both new, having not been available to the stewards at the time of their decision, and relevant.
However they did not agree the video evidence was significant, and therefore rejected Mercedes’ request for a review. They noted this decision was “not an affirmation or review of the stewards determination made during the race”...
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
The problem is that its not just hugely reduced, it doesn't exist - the fundamentals it is based on don't exist.
Case in point you can have faster trains or local trains you can't have both because the existing lines have pinch points everywhere that limit capacity. Yet what was offered yesterday was both faster trains and more local services without any attempt to create the only means of increasing capacity.
And if you think there are any remaining easy to fix capacity constraints on the ECML then I have a garden bridge to sell you. However that is what was sold because no-one has so far bothered to ask Network Rail what the cost will be to increase capacity on the ECML.
There will be some very happy senior NR managers rubbing their hands with glee.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
Just as racists on the left are desperate to try to find an anti-muslim angle to criticism or comment of Rafiq focusing more on those who do comment than the rights or wrongs of Rafiq's comments.
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
Not significant is the weasel excuse. Stewards are satisfied it doesn't add anything to the other available evidence they ignored.
Verstappen has effectively been given permission to run Hamilton off the track again in repeat circumstances - and has every incentive to do so. Hamilton, of course, cannot risk a crash if he wants to win the championship.
I wonder how robust Bottas might now be in such a situation...
You'll be waiting a long time for Bottas to show signs of a pulse. He's already thrown away 2 chances to knock some sense in to Max.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
The problem is that its not just hugely reduced, it doesn't exist - the fundamentals it is based on don't exist.
Case in point you can have faster trains or local trains you can't have both because the existing lines have pinch points everywhere that limit capacity. Yet what was offered yesterday was both faster trains and more local services without any attempt to create the only means of increasing capacity.
And if you think there are any remaining easy to fix capacity constraints on the ECML then I have a garden bridge to sell you. However that is what was sold because no-one has so far bothered to ask Network Rail what the cost will be to increase capacity on the ECML.
There will be some very happy senior NR managers rubbing their hands with glee.
Oh there will be millions spent on the viability of projects that they now are completely impossible but hey that's what the Government wants so that's what the Government will get.
Key line "we find that serving in office almost doubled the wealth of Conservative MPs, but had no discernible financial benefits for Labour MPs."
Labour has 203 seats - to have a majority they need something like 322 (assuming Sinn Fein don't send MPs).
Where are those 119 seats, given Labours issues in Scotland (which previously sent 50+ labour MPs into Parliament) they just don't exist.
For political purposes Labour need to win about 119 seats for a majority. For betting purposes it needs to win (net) 122/3 - to be at 325/6.
This requires a Black Swan. About 26 of their top 150 targets are held by the SNP. Among their top 150 targets (statistically) are seats they will never win - Hexham for example, or Rushcliffe, or Macclesfield. All their top 150 are held by Tories or SNP.
Their Black Swan requires the following: SNP to lose ground to Labour The Tories to lose more or less the entire red wall The Tories to lose seats to Labour they have never lost in modern times, including in the south - such as Basingstoke.
While Labour leading the next government is easy - it's about a 50% chance - actually winning remains out of sight for now.
I don't agree with this at all. It's hardly a black swan when it happened 16 years ago, and 20 years ago, and 24 years ago. Fortunes change very quickly in politics, and it's very easy to imagine events that could precipitate such a changeover. Remember, Labour got where they are today. It's hardly beyond the realm of imagination to think the Conservatives can land themselves in a similar situation. A couple of white swans is easily enough to tip the electoral see-saw the other way.
Labour's problem remains Scotland. They simply can't win enough seats south of the wall to win a majority without it being a landslide win for them. I know those happen now and then but its not an obvious play to sit and wait to win swathes of leafy England again.
They need Scotland. And I cannot see how they get it back, at least not yet. All political parties falter eventually, but I don't see how the SNP landslide reverses bigly within the next 2 years.
Yes. To get the sort of landslide shift needed to have a majority of one, (let alone a working majority) Labour have a mountain to climb. In 1997 there were several relevant factors: the Tories had an insoluble problem with both political and moral reputation, like now only worse, in a world which was a generation more moral and less cynical than now. Much of Scotland was still Labour. And Labour had put the work into moderation, presentation and leadership at a level of genius which is miles away from Labour now. Labour still had heavyweight, bruising politicians in it. Compare with now...
Yep. Starmer no Blair. SNP unlikely to collapse completely, even if Conservatives self-destruct.
I don't put the likelihood as high as Philip, but there's value in laying Labour and - probably - in the Tory majority (I would put the probability of that > 36%). Only slight wobble on that is the complete ineptitude, political as well as policy, shown over the last few weeks.
I'm only on Con most seats and laying the Labour majority (both placed some time ago). I'm sticking with that, I think. If I didn't have any bets on next GE I'd be tempted by the Con majority. All those bets are against what I hope will happen, except maybe the Lab majority where I might still prefer a Lib-Lab coalition.
If Sturgeon is still FM at the time of the next General Election, Labour have little chance in Scotland. She has Reagan levels qualities of Teflon attaching to her and a high personal vote.
But if she goes, then conceivably Central Belt voters may put (to some extent) the constitutional question to one side, and decide pragmatically that getting rid of the Tories at Westminster can best be achieved by voting Labour. Remember these areas used to deliver a titanic Labour vote and there remains a fair amount of goodwill towards the party.
Also, Starmer, personally, dour as he is, fits the Scottish psyche pretty well. The one part of the country where Theresa May played well in 2017 was Scotland (12 gains). Scots like dour politicians. Sir Keir may surprise us yet.
The trouble I have with that analysis is that the SNP are already displacing Tories at Westminster fairly [edit] successfully. So if displacing Tories is your aim, why vote Labour? IIRC all the existing Tory seats are Tory-SNP battlegrounds, so again why vote Labour there?
Hello Carnyx, you could have just said it was bollox and saved yourself some time.
Hello Malky. Hope you are well. Grey but mostly dry here, and quite mild, just as well as we had the central heating maintenance check today so the windows were open. Some mutton, hoggett I think, for stewing for dinner tonight.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
Had a chat with the local butcher the other day. High end place - expensive but top quality meat.
The chap at the counter laughed when I asked - apparently the problems are/were in the low end of the business. The turkeys that when you cook them emit a gallon of salt water, which they've been pumped up with... The workers in that end of the business are treated just how you'd imagine, apparently.
So, at a guess, they are seeing a dislocation of ultra-cheap, seasonal, hire-then-fire workers.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
Was he? For the ‘Jew’ tweets?
Probably confusing it when the time he was dropped from England U-19s for being out on the lash all the time -
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
Not significant is the weasel excuse. Stewards are satisfied it doesn't add anything to the other available evidence they ignored.
Verstappen has effectively been given permission to run Hamilton off the track again in repeat circumstances - and has every incentive to do so. Hamilton, of course, cannot risk a crash if he wants to win the championship.
I wonder how robust Bottas might now be in such a situation...
You'll be waiting a long time for Bottas to show signs of a pulse. He's already thrown away 2 chances to knock some sense in to Max.
Presumably they put all of the really shit bits in the trailer then..
It's a bit of a silly premise - 'Gatwick' gangsters yet the whole thing is set around the posh bits of Surrey. Everyone from that area knows that north West Sussex and Crawley is where you'll find the real villains.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
Was he? For the ‘Jew’ tweets?
Probably confusing it when the time he was dropped from England U-19s for being out on the lash all the time -
Rafiq was released by Yorkshire soon after the stillbirth of his son, two things that can send people over the edge. I’d say his whistleblowing is some kind of catharsis for those events.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
As far as I can tell, that's wrong. In 2010 he got banned by the ECB for a month for a foul-mouther tirade against a coach on Twitter. Then, obviously not having learnt his lesson, the next year he made the anti-Semitic tweets. I don't think the latter have been acknowledged before yesterday.
There is a question about why the tweets against the coach in 2010 got action, whilst other abuse did not. But do not try to make him out to be innocent or naive in this.
Presumably they put all of the really shit bits in the trailer then..
It's a bit of a silly premise - 'Gatwick' gangsters yet the whole thing is set around the posh bits of Surrey. Everyone from that area knows that north West Sussex and Crawley is where you'll find the real villains.
But the real gangster in this is the Arab terrorist king, HRH Prince Khalid Abdullah El Sahara, who steals the money and tries to blow up Gatwick!
My favourite thing about this movie is its description (it's on IMDB and on Amazon - you can watch this on Amazon in the USA)
"A tale of love, intrigue, crime, passion, espionage and more importantly a veritable work of art. Transcending zeitgeist to join the pantheon of the gods in eternity."
Had a chat with the local butcher the other day. High end place - expensive but top quality meat.
The chap at the counter laughed when I asked - apparently the problems are/were in the low end of the business. The turkeys that when you cook them emit a gallon of salt water, which they've been pumped up with... The workers in that end of the business are treated just how you'd imagine, apparently.
So, at a guess, they are seeing a dislocation of ultra-cheap, seasonal, hire-then-fire workers.
Dave's unhappy about the provincial quality of Brussels' supermarkets. Compared to Berlin.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
People keen to use Rafiq's antisemitic tweets to undermine his testimony about YCCC and people who disagree that racism in our society is a serious problem.
If we're talking overlaps I reckon that one is probably quite sizeable.
Had a chat with the local butcher the other day. High end place - expensive but top quality meat.
The chap at the counter laughed when I asked - apparently the problems are/were in the low end of the business. The turkeys that when you cook them emit a gallon of salt water, which they've been pumped up with... The workers in that end of the business are treated just how you'd imagine, apparently.
So, at a guess, they are seeing a dislocation of ultra-cheap, seasonal, hire-then-fire workers.
High end butcher in you don't want to go near that cheap meat shocker.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
People keen to use Rafiq's antisemitic tweets to undermine his testimony about YCCC and people who disagree that racism in our society is a serious problem.
If we're talking overlaps I reckon that one is probably quite sizeable.
Is there one covering those who complain of islamophobia but who are anti-Semitic themselves?
How the actual f**k have the FIA rejected Mercedes right to review? I mean, I can understand them rejecting any penalty once the review was heard, but surely the onboard video from Max's car was new evidence?
Not significant is the weasel excuse. Stewards are satisfied it doesn't add anything to the other available evidence they ignored.
Verstappen has effectively been given permission to run Hamilton off the track again in repeat circumstances - and has every incentive to do so. Hamilton, of course, cannot risk a crash if he wants to win the championship.
I wonder how robust Bottas might now be in such a situation...
Yep, the team needs to tell Valtteri not to be so nice, if he finds himself on the same piece of tarmac as Max in the last three races.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
It's reminiscent of the full Standards Committee Report on Owen Paterson. Those who made the effort to read it fully could see that he didn't have a leg to stand on, and had exhausted his right to appeal. Some who didn't make the effort to read it still commented on it at length, and found that Paterson did have a leg to stand on and had been denied an appeal.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
I have travelled worldwide extensively over the years including 7 round the world trips, 15 cruises, expedition cruise to Antarctica and South Georgia together with the Artic, all of Europe. South Affrica, Japan twice, multiple visits to the US and Canada and you make an insulting uneducated remarks such as you have
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
People keen to use Rafiq's antisemitic tweets to undermine his testimony about YCCC and people who disagree that racism in our society is a serious problem.
If we're talking overlaps I reckon that one is probably quite sizeable.
"Jews Don’t Count is a searing look at why anti-Semitism is often seen as a lesser form of racism, with a particular focus on the political left. To be Jewish, explains Baddiel, is to be subject to the contradictory belief that “Jews are somehow both sub-human and humanity’s secret masters”. Anti-semitic tropes are everywhere – yet, he argues, few of those who consider themselves alert to racism notice, let alone care."
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
As far as I can tell, that's wrong. In 2010 he got banned by the ECB for a month for a foul-mouther tirade against a coach on Twitter. Then, obviously not having learnt his lesson, the next year he made the anti-Semitic tweets. I don't think the latter have been acknowledged before yesterday.
There is a question about why the tweets against the coach in 2010 got action, whilst other abuse did not. But do not try to make him out to be innocent or naive in this.
They weren't tweets, they were Facebook messages, so private
My next great book discovery, after David Skelton's The New Snobbery (did I mention that - plus I wonder what Skelton is thinking after yesterday's announcement) is Jews Don't Count by David Baddiel recommended to me by a friend last week.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
It's useful having people on here who support their party 99.9% of the time, so you can calibrate how much trouble the party is in as they lose each of their loyalists in turn. I can't remember the details but I think there were a couple of occasions when even HYUFD couldn't come up with anything supportive to say about some particularly shambolic episode, and it was a good signal of a u-turn IIRC. (I may be wrong about that, I can't remember). I would also add that I personally don't see party loyalty as a bad thing in and of itself, as long as it's not taken to an absurd degree. What's odd at the current juncture I think is that the PM himself doesn't seem to be loyal to anything except his own interests.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
It's useful having people on here who support their party 99.9% of the time, so you can calibrate how much trouble the party is in as they lose each of their loyalists in turn. I can't remember the details but I think there were a couple of occasions when even HYUFD couldn't come up with anything supportive to say about some particularly shambolic episode, and it was a good signal of a u-turn IIRC. (I may be wrong about that, I can't remember). I would also add that I personally don't see party loyalty as a bad thing in and of itself, as long as it's not taken to an absurd degree. What's odd at the current juncture I think is that the PM himself doesn't seem to be loyal to anything except his own interests.
That last bit is what makes HYUFD's utter loyalty to the Tory party so funny as he once again tries to believe in 6 Impossible things before breakfast
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
People keen to use Rafiq's antisemitic tweets to undermine his testimony about YCCC and people who disagree that racism in our society is a serious problem.
If we're talking overlaps I reckon that one is probably quite sizeable.
I'm one of the people strongly criticising Rafiq. And to make it clear, I am not trying to undermine his testimony about YCCC. The obviously had a corrosive culture at times (I heard a bit of the committee, and ISTR he said it was fine at times, seemingly depending on who was in the team/captain), and its reaction (cover-up) to the abuse was awful.
But it is not useful to ignore what Rafiq himself did, either in 2010 or 2011. Were his tweets messages abusing a coach in 2010 a sign of a corrosive culture at the club that he himself was part of? I'd argue yes.
If you want to get to the bottom of what was going on at YCCC, then you need to look at everything - and that involves Rafiq himself.
One thing I'd add: there are a lot of young kids who are hopefuls in high-profile sports. Most have their dreams dashed and are unceremoniously dumped. But along with sporting help, the ones who make it should also get help in schooling and dealing with the somewhat odd pressures top-level competitive sports impose on young people.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
He piously said the likes of Joe Root were so used to racism they didn’t even realise when it was all around them, yet managed to forget that he was racist himself! He has ruined at least one career, that of David Lloyd, and maybe several more, for no worse than he is guilty of. If he had declared at the start that he was racist himself the whole narrative would be different.
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
He revealed long term and ongoing racism and bullying in a major chunk of British cricket.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
There is also the point that Rafiq was disciplined for his behaviour at the time. Was anyone else ?
As far as I can tell, that's wrong. In 2010 he got banned by the ECB for a month for a foul-mouther tirade against a coach on Twitter. Then, obviously not having learnt his lesson, the next year he made the anti-Semitic tweets. I don't think the latter have been acknowledged before yesterday.
There is a question about why the tweets against the coach in 2010 got action, whilst other abuse did not. But do not try to make him out to be innocent or naive in this.
They weren't tweets, they were Facebook messages, so private
Thanks. That makes the 2010 events slightly more interesting/curious.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
It's useful having people on here who support their party 99.9% of the time, so you can calibrate how much trouble the party is in as they lose each of their loyalists in turn. I can't remember the details but I think there were a couple of occasions when even HYUFD couldn't come up with anything supportive to say about some particularly shambolic episode, and it was a good signal of a u-turn IIRC. (I may be wrong about that, I can't remember). I would also add that I personally don't see party loyalty as a bad thing in and of itself, as long as it's not taken to an absurd degree. What's odd at the current juncture I think is that the PM himself doesn't seem to be loyal to anything except his own interests.
That last bit is what makes HYUFD's utter loyalty to the Tory party so funny.
I think that the cynicism in Johnson's relationship with his party goes both ways. Whereas HYUFD's relationship is actually quite a healthy one. If the Tories had more loyal footsoldiers like him they wouldn't have to spend quite so much time pimping themselves out to every passing shady billionaire in order to win elections and the whole country would benefit.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
If the plans lead to a roll back of HS2 then Tory voters are all for it.
Yougov yesterday had 35% of Conservative voters backing the government's plans to scrap the Birmingham-Leeds route from the HS2 rail project, only 23% opposed.
Voters in the Midlands and Wales also backed plans to scrap the HS2 route by 29% to 26% as did voters in the South by 29% to 23%
Had a chat with the local butcher the other day. High end place - expensive but top quality meat.
The chap at the counter laughed when I asked - apparently the problems are/were in the low end of the business. The turkeys that when you cook them emit a gallon of salt water, which they've been pumped up with... The workers in that end of the business are treated just how you'd imagine, apparently.
So, at a guess, they are seeing a dislocation of ultra-cheap, seasonal, hire-then-fire workers.
High end butcher in you don't want to go near that cheap meat shocker.
I've bought turkeys (and much of the meat we buy) there for 15 years. There is no chance of me buying one of the supermarket turkeys.
He was making a point about the low end of the industry treating the workers exactly as you would expect. Which has led into labour shortages in a number of places.....
My mother-in-law was very confused the first Christmas I was married and bought a turkey - she was poor and had always bought the cheap turkeys, in this country. She was in charge of the turkey.... cooked for hours - where was the pond of salt water?
My next great book discovery, after David Skelton's The New Snobbery (did I mention that - plus I wonder what Skelton is thinking after yesterday's announcement) is Jews Don't Count by David Baddiel recommended to me by a friend last week.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
People keen to use Rafiq's antisemitic tweets to undermine his testimony about YCCC and people who disagree that racism in our society is a serious problem.
If we're talking overlaps I reckon that one is probably quite sizeable.
I'm one of the people strongly criticising Rafiq. And to make it clear, I am not trying to undermine his testimony about YCCC. The obviously had a corrosive culture at times (I heard a bit of the committee, and ISTR he said it was fine at times, seemingly depending on who was in the team/captain), and its reaction (cover-up) to the abuse was awful.
But it is not useful to ignore what Rafiq himself did, either in 2010 or 2011. Were his tweets messages abusing a coach in 2010 a sign of a corrosive culture at the club that he himself was part of? I'd argue yes.
If you want to get to the bottom of what was going on at YCCC, then you need to look at everything - and that involves Rafiq himself.
One thing I'd add: there are a lot of young kids who are hopefuls in high-profile sports. Most have their dreams dashed and are unceremoniously dumped. But along with sporting help, the ones who make it should also get help in schooling and dealing with the somewhat odd pressures top-level competitive sports impose on young people.
The coach insults were tweets - I'm guessing he thought only his followers could/would see them.
They were aimed at an England U19 coach, not at a Yorkshire coach. I believe he was punished by Yorkshire for them; I'd be shocked if any player weren't for that kind of behaviour.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
It's useful having people on here who support their party 99.9% of the time, so you can calibrate how much trouble the party is in as they lose each of their loyalists in turn. I can't remember the details but I think there were a couple of occasions when even HYUFD couldn't come up with anything supportive to say about some particularly shambolic episode, and it was a good signal of a u-turn IIRC. (I may be wrong about that, I can't remember). I would also add that I personally don't see party loyalty as a bad thing in and of itself, as long as it's not taken to an absurd degree. What's odd at the current juncture I think is that the PM himself doesn't seem to be loyal to anything except his own interests.
That last bit is what makes HYUFD's utter loyalty to the Tory party so funny as he once again tries to believe in 6 Impossible things before breakfast
"It's very good jam," said the Queen. "Well, I don't want any to-day, at any rate." "You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said. "The rule is jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam to-day."
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
If the plans lead to a roll back of HS2 then Tory voters are all for it.
Yougov yesterday had 35% of Conservative voters backing the government's plans to scrap the Birmingham-Leeds route from the HS2 rail project, only 23% opposed.
Voters in the Midlands and Wales also backed plans to scrap the HS2 route by 29% to 26% as did voters in the South by 29% to 23%
But again you are looking at the headline figures before people have looked at the details. When they look at the details then it will be very different.
What upsets me most about HS2 is that even after 20 years everyone still thinks it's about speed not capacity. And that capacity would be a far better (and as will be discovered when Network rail stop laughing) far cheaper way to deliver what Boris and Co promised yesterday.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
If the plans lead to a roll back of HS2 then Tory voters are all for it.
Yougov yesterday had 35% of Conservative voters backing the government's plans to scrap the Birmingham-Leeds route from the HS2 rail project, only 23% opposed.
Voters in the Midlands and Wales also backed plans to scrap the HS2 route by 29% to 26% as did voters in the South by 29% to 23%
But again you are looking at the headline figures before people have looked at the details. When they look at the details then it will be very different.
What upsets me most about HS2 is that even after 20 years everyone still thinks it's about speed not capacity. And that capacity would be a far better (and as will be discovered when Network rail stop laughing) far cheaper way to deliver what Boris and Co promised yesterday.
It won't. Most Tory voters would happily scrap HS2 full stop.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
If the plans lead to a roll back of HS2 then Tory voters are all for it.
Yougov yesterday had 35% of Conservative voters backing the government's plans to scrap the Birmingham-Leeds route from the HS2 rail project, only 23% opposed.
Voters in the Midlands and Wales also backed plans to scrap the HS2 route by 29% to 26% as did voters in the South by 29% to 23%
Yes. I strongly think the government's made a big mistake with these changes to HS2. But it might be that I, and PB, are wrongly judging how it plays out with the public.
On Starmer's changed view of HS2 I wonder if he has thought this through
The whole costs of both HS2 and NPR will now be additional to the total 96 billion announced and in view of his other high spending commitments on home insulation and green investment where is all this money coming from
It will be popular in metropolitan areas but these are already labour but with just 28% giving it the thumbs up yesterday it may not be the vote winner he thinks it is
Furthermore his opposition to HS2 is going to be played on repeat and has he thought how the Greens will react as he could lose supporters to the Greens
In politics nothing is as simple as it seems
Lets pick this apart: 1. The "£96bn announced" hasn't been announced. Its a press release statement with nothing behind it. As an example, part of your £96bn is the 12-minute journey time Leeds to Bradford which isn't even yet a project, its an "we'll ask Network Rail" and will then be "subject to a business case" and treasury approval. 2. When you strip away pre-announced and already budgeted monies the total is £54bn. So no, HS2E / NPR is not additional to the £96bn £54bn -large chunks are still HS2E / NPR 3. Where the money comes from is where all the money comes from. We borrow money. Invest in something. Receive a return on the investment. Its called "capitalism" 4. From the sizeable choir of angry red wall Tories and at least one mayor, the areas in question are not already Labour. 5. Opposition to 2015 Euston plans - which have already been curtailed - is not going to get Boris off the hook. People are not stupid.
Big_G, you are supposedly past your previous "defend at all costs" position. This isn't even a shit sandwich as they have cancelled the bread roll. All the people celebrating the end of blight on their homes are now realising the blight continues indefinitely. All the people being told "this delivers quicker" can see that the previous 2043 timeline is now a much sooner 2043.
Please stop. They aren't worth it. Let the remaining PB parrots try and excuse this fiasco.
I am not taking any lectures from someone who is anti anything HMG does and yesterday was fine by me and many others
Your idea you are always the expert, always right, and attempts to insult those who see things differently referring to them as stupid is arrogant and simply an attempt to close down debate
I'm not trying to give lectures. Nor am I anti-anything HMG does having been a long-standing fan of Sunak and the ocean of critical money hosed at businesses through furlough and other schemes.
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I suppose my criticism is that you spoil your at times well put case by descending into calling people stupid if they do not agree or even accept HMG viewpoint
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
My problem is that I don't see a view from you beyond - money saved, yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe / saved for a while longer.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
You are again stereotyping me as a pensioner saying 'yippee my beloved NHS and triple lock pension is safe'
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
But the “investment in the railways announced yesterday” is hugely reduced from what was promised. Surely even you can see that?
Not quite I'm stereotyping you as someone who believes everything that comes out from the Government without doing his own research to see who accurate it is.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
Stereotyping people is always risky, especially on PB!
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
It's the parroting of a line (say the new plans are great) even though multiple different people have gone through the actual document line by line and spent time highlighting the flaws in it. BigG and HYUFD are by far the worst offenders there.
It's useful having people on here who support their party 99.9% of the time, so you can calibrate how much trouble the party is in as they lose each of their loyalists in turn. I can't remember the details but I think there were a couple of occasions when even HYUFD couldn't come up with anything supportive to say about some particularly shambolic episode, and it was a good signal of a u-turn IIRC. (I may be wrong about that, I can't remember). I would also add that I personally don't see party loyalty as a bad thing in and of itself, as long as it's not taken to an absurd degree. What's odd at the current juncture I think is that the PM himself doesn't seem to be loyal to anything except his own interests.
That last bit is what makes HYUFD's utter loyalty to the Tory party so funny.
I think that the cynicism in Johnson's relationship with his party goes both ways. Whereas HYUFD's relationship is actually quite a healthy one. If the Tories had more loyal footsoldiers like him they wouldn't have to spend quite so much time pimping themselves out to every passing shady billionaire in order to win elections and the whole country would benefit.
What's funny is that I don't think HYUFD sees your post the way I do.
Big crossover between fans of Sir Keir and believing everything Azeem Rafiq said/forgiving his hypocrisy
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
What hypocrisy. Has Rafiq made claims to be a saint? Has Rafiq and his gang pinned poor white boys down and forced Halal meat down their throats? Has he spent years making endless comments about whitey designed to belittle them?
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
Hang on. Criticising Rafiq is *not* the same as defending the people, and behaviour, he was complaining about.
That's right. With a slight trepidation (since yesterday I was misconstrued by some) the following is how I see this -
There's criticism of Rafiq (including from himself) for his racist comments.
Then there's using the comments in order to degrade his testimony about racism at YCCC and even the painting of him as being worse than those who subjected him to racist bullying because he now stands revealed as a racist AND a hypocrite.
These 2 things are easy to tell apart and the problem (which is quite a big one) is purely with the 2nd.
Comments
PS: Reality
Some of this is demonstrable fact though. It isn't £96bn its £54bn when you remove the money in IRP that has already been announced and in some cases is already being spent. Thats just a fact. The 12 minute Leeds Bradford being subject to a business case is taken directly from the document which I have read - have you?
I don't take it too seriously, though.
@BritainElects
3m
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 36% (+1)
LAB: 34% (-1)
GRN: 10% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
REFUK: 5% (+1)
via
@YouGov
, 17 - 18 Nov
Chgs. w/ 10 Nov
They haven't yet mentioned what is going to happen to trains to Bishop Auckland but everyone knows that branch line will be terminating at Darlington.
It is not necessary and the 96 billion is relevant in the overall spend
Please make your case but also accept other views are legitimate as well
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2794684/
And the trailer really is.. something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=and9IVPTg-g&t=27s
Nigel Harris probably has it completely right here https://twitter.com/RAIL/status/1461669400969465866
Nigel Harris
@RAIL
·
46m
...and yet Shapps spin yesterday was that this plan is specifically aimed at improving local services!
This is a major political miscalculation by No. 10.
Boris is about to drive his car off a towering political cliff. How could he avoid that?
Hmmm...
Yesterday the Government announced both faster trains and more local trains on the same tracks. And while one or other options may be achievable without extra capacity there is no way both the announced aims can be achieved
That isn't my opinion. Thats what the Integrated Rail Plan document says. And as it says that, it means that Shapps and Johnson are either ignorant of what it says or are lying. Nor am I suggesting you are stupid, I (and I'm not alone) am saying that they think voters are stupid.
Its like someone else up thread confidently saying "this delivers quicker" and "this prioritises regional connectivity". Whilst I know that is what the politicians are saying, they are being contradicted by the report they are talking about.
We someone says the sky is green, it is not partisan bickering or being insulting or being arrogant to say that it is blue.
2. £96bn is the made up number that they are feeding to people who they think are stupid. It cannot be validated by the document they are selling, by reason or by mathematics
3. Other views are legitimate. Other facts are not.
If you wish to join the discussion actually read the proposals and highlight bits that actually make sense, because when give it even a quick glance the flaws are incredibly obvious.
The idea that I am some Rayner-esque foaming Tory hater is daft.
Remember it was the LotO who instigated the ‘believe anyone who makes any allegation’ culture that led to the Carl Beech debacle, as well as almost destroying Cliff Richard, Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck. I suppose they are easy enough targets for edgy lefties for it not to matter
Bad news: feel like sh*t.
The harsh reality is that some people are desperate to defend the racists and show the paki to be a liar so that they can justify more racism.
Nothing is further from the truth, I support the reduction in the pension to 3.1% next year and the investment in the railways announced yesterday
It remains to be seen just how this pans out but I suspect this is very much Rishi applying fiscal constraints
I see your slur and will treat it as I do the unfunny nicknames you fail to make stick.
I don't think it was a slur luv...
Hamilton, of course, cannot risk a crash if he wants to win the championship.
I wonder how robust Bottas might now be in such a situation...
Very compelling article, I've unpaywalled it for PB because it's worth reading. @Leon has probably read it already but if not then worth the 5 mins.
How’s the mental health?
However they did not agree the video evidence was significant, and therefore rejected Mercedes’ request for a review. They noted this decision was “not an affirmation or review of the stewards determination made during the race”...
A bizarre stance to take, but there you go.
And the new plan isn't accurate - it's taken a set of costed plans (with a delivery date of 2043) and replaced it with a set of unresearched, unvalidated fantasies that offer the impossible (both faster trains and more local trains running on lines already at and beyond capacity) without investing any money (prior to the announcement) on getting Network Rail to see if the fantasies are possible let alone plausible and sane.
He has also been revealed as a bit of a racist himself.
Neither is an excuse for the other. Both need dealing with.
Was anyone else ?
I’ll ‘like’ your post on the grounds that you probably know more about this than I do. I’d fear to end up like Big_G, having to judge the world solely on the basis of what I can see from a big chair sitting on my a**e in Llandudno.
The chap at the counter laughed when I asked - apparently the problems are/were in the low end of the business. The turkeys that when you cook them emit a gallon of salt water, which they've been pumped up with... The workers in that end of the business are treated just how you'd imagine, apparently.
So, at a guess, they are seeing a dislocation of ultra-cheap, seasonal, hire-then-fire workers.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/aug/04/azeem-rafiq-banned-twitter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bb_Pfgu-wg
Rafiq was released by Yorkshire soon after the stillbirth of his son, two things that can send people over the edge. I’d say his whistleblowing is some kind of catharsis for those events.
What's then really annoying is that they don't argue over the points you are making they just repeat the line that the new plans are great (even though multiple people have torn the announcement apart and discovered multiple different statements that are a complete pack of lines)
There is a question about why the tweets against the coach in 2010 got action, whilst other abuse did not. But do not try to make him out to be innocent or naive in this.
My favourite thing about this movie is its description (it's on IMDB and on Amazon - you can watch this on Amazon in the USA)
"A tale of love, intrigue, crime, passion, espionage and more importantly a veritable work of art. Transcending zeitgeist to join the pantheon of the gods in eternity."
If we're talking overlaps I reckon that one is probably quite sizeable.
In case you do not know travel broadens the mind
Very good easily readable in a sitting.
https://www.waterstones.com/book/jews-dont-count/david-baddiel/9780008399474
I would also add that I personally don't see party loyalty as a bad thing in and of itself, as long as it's not taken to an absurd degree. What's odd at the current juncture I think is that the PM himself doesn't seem to be loyal to anything except his own interests.
But it is not useful to ignore what Rafiq himself did, either in 2010 or 2011. Were his tweets messages abusing a coach in 2010 a sign of a corrosive culture at the club that he himself was part of? I'd argue yes.
If you want to get to the bottom of what was going on at YCCC, then you need to look at everything - and that involves Rafiq himself.
One thing I'd add: there are a lot of young kids who are hopefuls in high-profile sports. Most have their dreams dashed and are unceremoniously dumped. But along with sporting help, the ones who make it should also get help in schooling and dealing with the somewhat odd pressures top-level competitive sports impose on young people.
Yougov yesterday had 35% of Conservative voters backing the government's plans to scrap the Birmingham-Leeds route from the HS2 rail project, only 23% opposed.
Voters in the Midlands and Wales also backed plans to scrap the HS2 route by 29% to 26% as did voters in the South by 29% to 23%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/11/18/98559/1
He was making a point about the low end of the industry treating the workers exactly as you would expect. Which has led into labour shortages in a number of places.....
My mother-in-law was very confused the first Christmas I was married and bought a turkey - she was poor and had always bought the cheap turkeys, in this country. She was in charge of the turkey.... cooked for hours - where was the pond of salt water?
They were aimed at an England U19 coach, not at a Yorkshire coach. I believe he was punished by Yorkshire for them; I'd be shocked if any player weren't for that kind of behaviour.
"Well, I don't want any to-day, at any rate."
"You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said. "The rule is jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam to-day."
What upsets me most about HS2 is that even after 20 years everyone still thinks it's about speed not capacity. And that capacity would be a far better (and as will be discovered when Network rail stop laughing) far cheaper way to deliver what Boris and Co promised yesterday.
There's criticism of Rafiq (including from himself) for his racist comments.
Then there's using the comments in order to degrade his testimony about racism at YCCC and even the painting of him as being worse than those who subjected him to racist bullying because he now stands revealed as a racist AND a hypocrite.
These 2 things are easy to tell apart and the problem (which is quite a big one) is purely with the 2nd.