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Date for your diary: PB Gathering – Feb 3rd 2022 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 16 in General
imageDate for your diary: PB Gathering – Feb 3rd 2022 – politicalbetting.com

It has been a long time coming but I am delighted to announce that the first PB Gathering since before GE2017 is scheduled to take place on February 3rd next year.

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 864
    If it was in Scotland I would have got free bus travel...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811
    Yay.
  • I'll try my best to be there.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 864
    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724
    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
  • London is too far for me to travel, but I hope you all have fun!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701
    edited November 16

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
  • Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385
  • tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    That creates a rather unpleasant image in my head. euch!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Lovely! I can walk there from the office.
  • RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    I am not sure that is what Gardenwalker said. Sounds like you are playing the "righteous indignation" approach beloved of teh dreaded "Woke"
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,498
    Smarkets - is there any way to switch to a betfair like odds view?

    I don't totally mind the chance view, and in fact I think I might have suggested it if I hadn't bet before. However the BF solution seems more comfortable.

    Also do smarkets (or BF) offer a service to alert you as to new political markets (or others, but I really only bet on politics)?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811
    https://goodlawproject.org/news/conservative-politicians-vip-lane/

    "Some of the VIP lane companies have close links with Conservative party politicians. Take PPE Medpro. The company was founded by the former business associate of Conservative Peer Baroness Mone. It won two huge contracts, worth £200 million, just weeks after it was set up."

    ...

    "Michael Gove referred Meller Designs, the firm of Conservative donor David Meller, to the VIP lane. The company subsequently landed over £160 million in PPE deals."

    "Lord Feldman referred SG Recruitment, amongst others, to the VIP lane. The Conservative Peer Lord Chadlington sits on the Board of its parent company, Sumner Group Holdings Limited. They landed £50 million in PPE contracts.
    Dominic Cummings is named as the referrer of Global United Trading. The company landed a £350k PPE contract."
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    I am not sure that is what Gardenwalker said. Sounds like you are playing the "righteous indignation" approach beloved of teh dreaded "Woke"
    Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?

    Seems a pretty clear cut case of a smear to me.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Not sure the "vote tomorrow" will fly on almost owt any more tbh.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,832
    More discussion on this thread on post Roman Britain please gang.

    On topic: sounds good
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    So leave him to it. This is very thin stuff.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,319
    edited November 16
    I understand that Boris will submit his proposals as an amendment to labour's motion tomorrow and in that case it should pass and then becomes, according to Starmer, binding

    Chris Bryant has just said on the BBC that his committee will make recommendations before Christmas and therefore what standing does tomorrow's vote have with that committee's recommendations

    I really do not understand that if the vote passes tomorrow that surely becomes mandated into the process
  • TimSTimS Posts: 545
    We do seem to be going through one of those periods where the PM gets into a self-reinforcing state of panic, and so keeps making mistakes which just reinforce the panic. Labour will want to see this going on for as long as possible, ideally blue-on-blue.

    They also need to reinforce loudly that this proposal by Boris was forced on him by Labour pressure. That will really rile up the backbenchers.

    On topic I quite fancy going to the social, assuming relative newcomers are welcome.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,022

    I understand that Boris will submit his proposals as an amendment to labour's motion tomorrow and in that case it should pass and then becomes, according to Starmer, binding

    Chris Bryant has just said on the BBC that his committee will make recommendations before Christmas and therefore what standing does tomorrow's vote have with that committee's recommendations

    I really do not understand that if the vote passes tomorrow that surely becomes mandated into the process

    Legislate in haste repent at leisure.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    I am not sure that is what Gardenwalker said. Sounds like you are playing the "righteous indignation" approach beloved of teh dreaded "Woke"
    He implied that because his dad was an alleged sex pest, so must he be. A lazy smear.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,501
    If BoZo gets 22'd tonight does that mean his amendment tomorrow is invalid?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701
    Scott_xP said:

    If BoZo gets 22'd tonight does that mean his amendment tomorrow is invalid?

    He won’t, but why would it if he does? He’d still be an MP
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?

    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,591

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris
  • RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    Why explain when better not to comment in the first place
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://goodlawproject.org/news/conservative-politicians-vip-lane/

    "Some of the VIP lane companies have close links with Conservative party politicians. Take PPE Medpro. The company was founded by the former business associate of Conservative Peer Baroness Mone. It won two huge contracts, worth £200 million, just weeks after it was set up."

    ...

    "Michael Gove referred Meller Designs, the firm of Conservative donor David Meller, to the VIP lane. The company subsequently landed over £160 million in PPE deals."

    "Lord Feldman referred SG Recruitment, amongst others, to the VIP lane. The Conservative Peer Lord Chadlington sits on the Board of its parent company, Sumner Group Holdings Limited. They landed £50 million in PPE contracts.
    Dominic Cummings is named as the referrer of Global United Trading. The company landed a £350k PPE contract."

    David Meller was chairman of that Presidents Club thing 3 years ago where the waitresses got groped

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents_Club

    If that's not sleaze what is?
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
  • eekeek Posts: 15,853
    eek said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
    What Boris could do however, is make it a free vote given that Labour will be voting for it...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,319
    edited November 16
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    If BoZo gets 22'd tonight does that mean his amendment tomorrow is invalid?

    He won’t, but why would it if he does? He’d still be an MP
    I think this is a big moment for the conservative party with Boris siding with the new red wall mps to the annoyance of the dinosaurs

    On this I wish Boris well and hope the party can find it in themselves to deselect some of the dinosaurs whose time has gone

    I would just comment that I understand that the proposals are not retrospective
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    It’s pretty clear that last year’s PPE bonanza was a snouts-in-the-trough episode of historic proportions.

    Larceny on such a scale it’s kind of hard to compute.

    VIP channel indeed.
    I wonder if any of those VIP firms were based in Middlesbrough.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 864
    edited November 16



    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW

    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    Why explain when better not to comment in the first place
    The psychology of the PM is legitimate fodder.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    If BoZo gets 22'd tonight does that mean his amendment tomorrow is invalid?

    He won’t, but why would it if he does? He’d still be an MP
    I think this is a big moment for the conservative party with Boris siding with the new red wall mps to the annoyance of the dinosaurs

    On this I wish Boris well and hope the party can find it in themselves to deselect some of the dinosaurs whose time has gone

    I would just comment that I understand that the proposals are not retrospective
    Not much point siding with them on a housekeeping issue after kicking them in the balls over hs3
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
  • eek said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
    Good
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    If BoZo gets 22'd tonight does that mean his amendment tomorrow is invalid?

    He won’t, but why would it if he does? He’d still be an MP
    I think this is a big moment for the conservative party with Boris siding with the new red wall mps to the annoyance of the dinosaurs

    On this I wish Boris well and hope the party can find it in themselves to deselect some of the dinosaurs whose time has gone

    I would just comment that I understand that the proposals are not retrospective
    Boris is not siding with the red wall MPs.

    Boris has decided he made a mighty fuck-up the other week and now has no choice but to propose this spartan new measure, desperately hoping to draw a line.

    Everything we know about Boris tell us that he has had to be dragged kicking and screaming to this point, and I fully expect him to vote in any motion with both of his fingers crossed behind his back.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,103
    In the diary! Sounds great - thanks all for organising.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    edited November 16
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
    Not at all.
    Except when they seem bloody similar, which is my point!

    All leaders seem to have embarassing relatives, but Boris appears to want to mimic his in certain respects.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    If BoZo gets 22'd tonight does that mean his amendment tomorrow is invalid?

    He won’t, but why would it if he does? He’d still be an MP
    I think this is a big moment for the conservative party with Boris siding with the new red wall mps to the annoyance of the dinosaurs

    On this I wish Boris well and hope the party can find it in themselves to deselect some of the dinosaurs whose time has gone

    I would just comment that I understand that the proposals are not retrospective
    Not much point siding with them on a housekeeping issue after kicking them in the balls over hs3
    I await the announcement on Thursday and the explanation for the decisions before I can form an opinion
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
    Not at all.
    Except when they seem bloody similar, which is my point!
    Only with Boris, right? Claiming he’s a sex pest because his father is one (“the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”) is just a lazy smear.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358

    eek said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
    Good
    But hasn’t he got to first get through the rest of today and tomorrow without being carried up by his own MPs and bounced out the front door of Parliament?

    That would be brilliant at starting a new traditional procedure thing for how to change Prime Ministers 🥾
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
    Not at all.
    Except when they seem bloody similar, which is my point!
    Only with Boris, right? Claiming he’s a sex pest because his father is one (“the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”) is just a lazy smear.
    Well, I’d put in a vote for the Trump dynasty too.
    They all seem pretty shabby.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085
    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,498
    edited November 16
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)

    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.

  • eek said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
    Good
    But hasn’t he got to first get through the rest of today and tomorrow without being carried up by his own MPs and bounced out the front door of Parliament?

    That would be brilliant at starting a new traditional procedure thing for how to change Prime Ministers 🥾
    That is not going to happen much as some opposition supporters would like
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
    Not at all.
    Except when they seem bloody similar, which is my point!
    Only with Boris, right? Claiming he’s a sex pest because his father is one (“the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”) is just a lazy smear.
    Well, I’d put in a vote for the Trump dynasty too.
    They all seem pretty shabby.
    So sins of one’s father only applies to your political opponents. Got it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,925
    edited November 16
    Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.

    A year after Rowland paid off his loan the duke appeared at the opening ceremony for Banque Havilland’s joint venture with the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund.

    Buckingham Palace’s code of conduct says members of the royal family should not accept a gift which “would, or might appear to, place [them] under any obligation to the donor”.

    Gifts offered by commercial enterprises in the UK “should normally be declined”, it states. The rules say they “should never accept gifts of money, or money equivalent, in connection with an official engagement or duty”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    edited November 16
    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is. FFS.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    How can you possibly think that two female Tory MP's accusing the Prime Minister's father of groping them is an inappropriate conversation for a site that is set up to discuss Party politics? It's only just short of being worthy of a sit-com!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085
    edited November 16

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again

    You may find yourself in the same boat. No one wants to be the soldier shot at 10.58 on November 11, 1918
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,893
    edited November 16

    Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.

    A year after Rowland paid off his loan the duke appeared at the opening ceremony for Banque Havilland’s joint venture with the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund.

    Buckingham Palace’s code of conduct says members of the royal family should not accept a gift which “would, or might appear to, place [them] under any obligation to the donor”.

    Gifts offered by commercial enterprises in the UK “should normally be declined”, it states. The rules say they “should never accept gifts of money, or money equivalent, in connection with an official engagement or duty”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.

    There's more that I could say too. But cannot for similar reasons to you.

    See also this - https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/qatar-accuses-uk-financier-hiding-evidence-banque-havilland-case
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632

    Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.

    Oh dear.
    Not good.

    Andrew should probably now retire totally and utterly from the public eye, including any ceremonial responsibilities like privy counsellor etc.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again
    I don’t know Seth Lakeman. Is the crowd likely to be very anti-vaxy?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701
    Roger said:


    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    How can you possibly think that two female Tory MP's accusing the Prime Minister's father of groping them is an inappropriate conversation for a site that is set up to discuss Party politics? It's only just short of being worthy of a sit-com!
    I’m not thinking or saying that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701
    Roger said:


    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    How can you possibly think that two female Tory MP's accusing the Prime Minister's father of groping them is an inappropriate conversation for a site that is set up to discuss Party politics? It's only just short of being worthy of a sit-com!
    I’m not thinking or saying that.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,001
    The letter from Boris to the Speaker, published today, adds zilch to the debate. Using lots of words, all the letter does is suggest that the recommendations made by the Committee on Standards in Public Life in 2018 be implemented. He could have written one sentence to the same effect. It's not actually the Government's business; it's a matter for the House. Boris is just wriggling, and given his behaviour on the Paterson vote last week it's just embarrassing.

    So why haven't the 2018 recommendations been implemented by MPs, three years on? I can only guess that with a Tory majority since 2019, and lots of Tory MPs having outside interests, Bryant and his fellow Committee members didn't think they would get through the HoC. Hilariously, the behaviour of the Tories over the Paterson affair now means the recommendations (or something close to them) will get through. The Whips will have to back off completely.

    As own goals go, the denouement of this one over the last fortnight has been truly spectacular for the government.
  • Roger said:


    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    How can you possibly think that two female Tory MP's accusing the Prime Minister's father of groping them is an inappropriate conversation for a site that is set up to discuss Party politics? It's only just short of being worthy of a sit-com!
    I know Caroline Nokes has alleged inappropriate behaviour but who is the other conservative mp
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
    Not at all.
    Except when they seem bloody similar, which is my point!
    Only with Boris, right? Claiming he’s a sex pest because his father is one (“the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”) is just a lazy smear.
    Well, I’d put in a vote for the Trump dynasty too.
    They all seem pretty shabby.
    So sins of one’s father only applies to your political opponents. Got it.
    Wrong again.

    I remain a great fan of Thatcher, even though her son was/is by all accounts a ratbag.
  • dixiedean said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Not sure the "vote tomorrow" will fly on almost owt any more tbh.
    To be fair he's suggesting an amendment to a vote already scheduled for tomorrow.

    That's standard procedure.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again

    You may find yourself in the same boat. No one wants to be the soldier shot at 10.58 on November 11, 1918
    You could be blown up by a landmine at 11.05 on the same date. Or get Spanish Flu on the way home. Come on, man, you are not behaving as the Platonic ideal of a Leon should do.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358

    eek said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
    Good
    But hasn’t he got to first get through the rest of today and tomorrow without being carried up by his own MPs and bounced out the front door of Parliament?

    That would be brilliant at starting a new traditional procedure thing for how to change Prime Ministers 🥾
    That is not going to happen much as some opposition supporters would like
    I agree with you all afternoon, it’s important to wrong foot opposition, especially Labour, and get nice newspaper headlines tomorrow - but not at expense of your own party disappearing down a big hole in the future though.

    Don’t you agree with the MPs, on something like this you can’t have a back of an envelope by panicking Prime Minster proposal just rushed through so quickly?

    The shape of the law, how and by whom it’s policed and punished are probably very nuanced thoughts - the very same questions to solve that kicked all this off in the first place.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 864
    edited November 16
    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.



    Briskin:

    Thanks for the response.

    I admit you're logic makes sense. If I didn't have to go into town tomorrow my travel costs would wipe away my profit; but I do have to go into town tomorrow anyway.

    Oh - and the terms and conditions say it must be a horsey bet.

    So far it's Heart of Kernow for me.
  • The letter from Boris to the Speaker, published today, adds zilch to the debate. Using lots of words, all the letter does is suggest that the recommendations made by the Committee on Standards in Public Life in 2018 be implemented. He could have written one sentence to the same effect. It's not actually the Government's business; it's a matter for the House. Boris is just wriggling, and given his behaviour on the Paterson vote last week it's just embarrassing.

    So why haven't the 2018 recommendations been implemented by MPs, three years on? I can only guess that with a Tory majority since 2019, and lots of Tory MPs having outside interests, Bryant and his fellow Committee members didn't think they would get through the HoC. Hilariously, the behaviour of the Tories over the Paterson affair now means the recommendations (or something close to them) will get through. The Whips will have to back off completely.

    As own goals go, the denouement of this one over the last fortnight has been truly spectacular for the government.

    You do know that this is now an amendment to labour's motion tomorrow and will be voted on, and as Starmer has said will be binding

    It therefore becomes the debate tomorrow
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,498

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again
    I don’t know Seth Lakeman. Is the crowd likely to be very anti-vaxy?
    Do look up Seth Lakeman's music. It's very good.

    Any music crowd is going to be a disaster. It'd be a tough call but personally I wouldn't go, and that'd not be for any fears I have about cv - just I think it'd be a little irresponsible to my friends.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,493

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again
    I don’t know Seth Lakeman. Is the crowd likely to be very anti-vaxy?
    Folk music. Probably mildly anti-vaxxier than usual, but only mildly.

    Anyway Leon, don't be daft. You'll be fine. The worst that will happen is that you catch covid and get a heavy cold for a few days. But that's not significantly more likely than the chances of catching a heavy cold at a gig pre-covid, and you didn't avoid them for fear of colds.
    You're more at risk from getting knocked down on the way there than you are from dying due to catching a disease while you're there that you're vaccinated against.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited November 16

    The letter from Boris to the Speaker, published today, adds zilch to the debate. Using lots of words, all the letter does is suggest that the recommendations made by the Committee on Standards in Public Life in 2018 be implemented. He could have written one sentence to the same effect. It's not actually the Government's business; it's a matter for the House. Boris is just wriggling, and given his behaviour on the Paterson vote last week it's just embarrassing.

    So why haven't the 2018 recommendations been implemented by MPs, three years on? I can only guess that with a Tory majority since 2019, and lots of Tory MPs having outside interests, Bryant and his fellow Committee members didn't think they would get through the HoC. Hilariously, the behaviour of the Tories over the Paterson affair now means the recommendations (or something close to them) will get through. The Whips will have to back off completely.

    As own goals go, the denouement of this one over the last fortnight has been truly spectacular for the government.

    If he's now suggesting those recommendations perhaps he could get Gove and the DLUHC to at last just respond to the committee's report on local government ethical standards from 2019 while he's at it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,219
    Cyclefree said:

    Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.

    A year after Rowland paid off his loan the duke appeared at the opening ceremony for Banque Havilland’s joint venture with the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund.

    Buckingham Palace’s code of conduct says members of the royal family should not accept a gift which “would, or might appear to, place [them] under any obligation to the donor”.

    Gifts offered by commercial enterprises in the UK “should normally be declined”, it states. The rules say they “should never accept gifts of money, or money equivalent, in connection with an official engagement or duty”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.

    There's more that I could say too. But cannot for similar reasons to you.

    See also this - https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/qatar-accuses-uk-financier-hiding-evidence-banque-havilland-case
    I wish I had such a benefactor. I'm wondering how to pay my income tax bill in January.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again
    I don’t know Seth Lakeman. Is the crowd likely to be very anti-vaxy?
    No, older. Very vaxy I'd have thought

    But then he's New British Folk. So maybe some alt types who refuse the jab

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oRYPigPAgo&list=RD1oRYPigPAgo&start_radio=1


    Ignore the terrible cheesy video. They tried to turn him into a rockstar (and failed). Great song
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,701

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    Do you dispute that Boris is sleazy as hell?
    I dispute that being a sex pest is somehow hereditary. Do you view the children of all ne’er-do-wells similarly?
    Not at all.
    Except when they seem bloody similar, which is my point!
    Only with Boris, right? Claiming he’s a sex pest because his father is one (“the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”) is just a lazy smear.
    Well, I’d put in a vote for the Trump dynasty too.
    They all seem pretty shabby.
    So sins of one’s father only applies to your political opponents. Got it.
    Wrong again.

    I remain a great fan of Thatcher, even though her son was/is by all accounts a ratbag.
    Well I did say sins of one’s father.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946

    Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.

    A year after Rowland paid off his loan the duke appeared at the opening ceremony for Banque Havilland’s joint venture with the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund.

    Buckingham Palace’s code of conduct says members of the royal family should not accept a gift which “would, or might appear to, place [them] under any obligation to the donor”.

    Gifts offered by commercial enterprises in the UK “should normally be declined”, it states. The rules say they “should never accept gifts of money, or money equivalent, in connection with an official engagement or duty”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.

    Generous folk these Tories
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811
    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Yes of course it is. He is fantastic live. And a really nice bloke and a neighbour of mine.
  • eek said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Stare them down Boris

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    3m
    The government WILL put forward a motion tomorrow.

    This will apparently mirror the language of the PM's letter - and so apparently toughen up Labour proposal

    We await the exact working of the motion...
    Good
    But hasn’t he got to first get through the rest of today and tomorrow without being carried up by his own MPs and bounced out the front door of Parliament?

    That would be brilliant at starting a new traditional procedure thing for how to change Prime Ministers 🥾
    That is not going to happen much as some opposition supporters would like
    I agree with you all afternoon, it’s important to wrong foot opposition, especially Labour, and get nice newspaper headlines tomorrow - but not at expense of your own party disappearing down a big hole in the future though.

    Don’t you agree with the MPs, on something like this you can’t have a back of an envelope by panicking Prime Minster proposal just rushed through so quickly?

    The shape of the law, how and by whom it’s policed and punished are probably very nuanced thoughts - the very same questions to solve that kicked all this off in the first place.
    It is politics and if it upsets the old school conservative dinosaurs then even better, time has left then behind
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,516
    edited November 16
    Anthony Eden's wife just died at 101, she was also Churchill's niece
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1460670336362496009?s=20
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632

    Roger said:


    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    How can you possibly think that two female Tory MP's accusing the Prime Minister's father of groping them is an inappropriate conversation for a site that is set up to discuss Party politics? It's only just short of being worthy of a sit-com!
    I know Caroline Nokes has alleged inappropriate behaviour but who is the other conservative mp
    Roger’s slightly wrong.

    The other Stanley accuser is Ailbhe Rea, political correspondent at the New Statesman. Who is less credible maybe just on account of who she writes for?

    Boris’s accuser was Charlotte Edwardes, who writes for the Times.

    Michael Fallon and Damian Green were brought down by similar allegations.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    HYUFD said:

    Anthony Eden's wife just died at 101, she was also Churchill's niece
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1460670336362496009?s=20

    That’s a shame, as she was the punchline to many of those “how weird is time” anecdotes.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 358
    edited November 16
    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.



    Jade bit >
    You are absolutely right, money back in form of a free bet is not the same as money back.

    I think it works the same as reward points at shops, because you feel you are getting something for free you are not shopping around? Does that make sense.

    By the same logic, if you don’t want to shop around, it is free? The people deliver my wine boxes, I get tokens I save up and get a free box of wine. Is that not a free box of wine?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,387
    Contemplating Boris's government doing everything in their power to create the Black Swan required for Labour to sweep to victory, we need reminding of Robert Conquest's 3rd law of politics:

    The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,742

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again
    I don’t know Seth Lakeman. Is the crowd likely to be very anti-vaxy?
    About one in sixty of them are likely to have Covid, that's the current prevalence rate I think.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,498
    edited November 16
    JBriskin3 said:

    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.

    Briskin:

    Thanks for the response.

    I admit you're logic makes sense. If I didn't have to go into town tomorrow my travel costs would wipe away my profit; but I do have to go into town tomorrow anyway.

    Oh - and the terms and conditions say it must be a horsey bet.

    So far it's Heart of Kernow for me.

    Edit: Again blockquotes odd. (Below is my comment - Omnium)

    Sure. Just remember why you're betting and don't get sucked in. Of course many people here bet very frequently and in quite large sums. Political betting is a pretty minority sport though and there are very few bookmakers that want to take it on. For me it's just a fun thing to do. The political markets (say 'Next PM') are so feindishly complicated and they run for years. I make a very slight profit over the long term, but it's very slight and certainly doesn't recompense the time and effort involved.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,893
    HYUFD said:

    Anthony Eden's wife just died at 101, she was also Churchill's niece
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1460670336362496009?s=20

    And her husband first became Foreign Secretary in 1935.

    That'd make a good pub quiz question.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,811
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Of course it is, jesus.

    Yours sincerely, frequent maskless tube rider, 4.5 months post 2nd jab.
    I'm tending towards YES

    It's weird. Until I got my booster booked I was behaving absolutely normally - going to pubs, restaurants, bars. Travelling all over

    Now suddenly my 95% immunity jab is just ten days away, I am nervous again
    I don’t know Seth Lakeman. Is the crowd likely to be very anti-vaxy?
    No, older. Very vaxy I'd have thought

    But then he's New British Folk. So maybe some alt types who refuse the jab

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oRYPigPAgo&list=RD1oRYPigPAgo&start_radio=1


    Ignore the terrible cheesy video. They tried to turn him into a rockstar (and failed). Great song
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRv40CKpYoM&ab_channel=SethLakeman

    Better video, even better song.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Yes of course it is. He is fantastic live. And a really nice bloke and a neighbour of mine.
    Good to hear. Always nice when an artist one admires turns out to be a good chap, or chapess

    I've been trying to see him live for about a decade. Various events got in the way. I shall go, and if I get fatal Covid I will send you all the funeral bills, but also an invite to the Wake
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,946

    Roger said:


    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    Another woman, this time a journalist, alleges she was groped by the PM's Dad.

    Although this was story brushed off last night, I’m not sure.

    1. Complainant 1 is a TORY MP
    2. Without suggesting Boris is guilty of the same (although he has been accused of such by the journalist Charlotte Edwardes), the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree here, does it?
    I was wondering how long it would be until we had the old sins of one’s father.
    Normally I would agree, but it seems appropriate to draw comparisons between the seemingly feckless, solipsistic and gauche Tory gaffer, and his son Boris.
    Not really. It’s just a smear.
    A “smear” by a serving Tory MP against her party leader’s father.
    No, it's a smear by you against the PM.
    The PM is more than capable of smearing himself.
    You don’t see that what you said is a smear? You were giving him the old “nudge nudge wink wink” treatment, implying he must be a sex pest because his father (allegedly) is.
    Boris is widely understood to have the sexual ethics of an alleycat, and what what little I know of his father’s biography, it seems to run in the family.

    Both Stanley and Boris have been accused of inappropriate groping, and Stanley’s accuser is highly credible. I do not know enough about Boris’s accuser to form a view.

    All I mean to say is that when Stanley is accused of groping, it reminds me again of Boris’s own sleaziness, regardless of whether he is also a groper.

    There you go again with the claim. Keep digging.
    How can you possibly think that two female Tory MP's accusing the Prime Minister's father of groping them is an inappropriate conversation for a site that is set up to discuss Party politics? It's only just short of being worthy of a sit-com!
    I know Caroline Nokes has alleged inappropriate behaviour but who is the other conservative mp
    You're right. The second one's a female journalist. So a man with eclectic tastes like his son.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 864
    edited November 16
    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.

    Briskin:

    Thanks for the response.

    I admit you're logic makes sense. If I didn't have to go into town tomorrow my travel costs would wipe away my profit; but I do have to go into town tomorrow anyway.

    Oh - and the terms and conditions say it must be a horsey bet.

    So far it's Heart of Kernow for me.
    Ominium:
    Sure. Just remember why you're betting and don't get sucked in. Of course many people here bet very frequently and in quite large sums. Political betting is a pretty minority sport though and there are very few bookmakers that want to take it on. For me it's just a fun thing to do. The political markets (say 'Next PM') are so feindishly complicated and they run for years. I make a very slight profit over the long term, but it's very slight and certainly doesn't recompense the time and effort involved.

    Briskin:
    I admit I have been sucked to the free bet trick online before (on the footie). I'm pretty sure I've learnt my lesson.

    And I've been betting on Politics for over 10 years now.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 577

    Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.

    Oh dear.
    Not good.

    Andrew should probably now retire totally and utterly from the public eye, including any ceremonial responsibilities like privy counsellor etc.
    No, I think Mr Plod should be paying a visit to him very shortly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,925
    edited November 16
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anthony Eden's wife just died at 101, she was also Churchill's niece
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1460670336362496009?s=20

    And her husband first became Foreign Secretary in 1935.

    That'd make a good pub quiz question.
    Carrie Johnson may take one of her records.

    What was the youngest age of the spouse of the PM when they left office?

    36.

    I remember being asked that in a quiz years ago, and genuinely being shocked.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,500

    dixiedean said:

    Ah that's why we've stopped receiving the live commentary from Sky News.

    I understand:
    ** There were suggestions that the Tories would try and vote on this lobbying ban as soon as tomorrow
    ** There is a huge backlash, 1922 involved, over breadth of what's being proposed. (What is "reasonable")
    ** No decision available yet over what happens tomorrow


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1460663310051856385

    Not sure the "vote tomorrow" will fly on almost owt any more tbh.
    To be fair he's suggesting an amendment to a vote already scheduled for tomorrow.

    That's standard procedure.
    Yes. I didn't realise it was an Opposition debate tomorrow.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 2,304
    Brilliant triumph for Boris today.

    Like a wanted sex-pest walking into a police station and so depriving the cops of a dawn raid. Like a disfavoured corsair vaulting off the bowsprit before being made to walk the plank. Like a defeated dictator shooting himself in the face before the Red Army... [that's enough -- Ed]
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,498
    JBriskin3 said:

    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.

    Briskin:

    Thanks for the response.

    I admit you're logic makes sense. If I didn't have to go into town tomorrow my travel costs would wipe away my profit; but I do have to go into town tomorrow anyway.

    Oh - and the terms and conditions say it must be a horsey bet.

    So far it's Heart of Kernow for me.
    Ominium:
    Sure. Just remember why you're betting and don't get sucked in. Of course many people here bet very frequently and in quite large sums. Political betting is a pretty minority sport though and there are very few bookmakers that want to take it on. For me it's just a fun thing to do. The political markets (say 'Next PM') are so feindishly complicated and they run for years. I make a very slight profit over the long term, but it's very slight and certainly doesn't recompense the time and effort involved.
    Briskin:
    I admit I have been sucked to the free bet trick online before (on the footie). I'm pretty sure I've learnt my lesson.

    And I've been betting on Politics for over 10 years now.

    Very odd this blockquote thing. Anyway we both know who said what :)
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 864
    edited November 16

    Omnium said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Hope you all have fun and have a good turnout :smile:

    I've got a 5 quid Paddy Power shop voucher to use (from saturdays Daily Star)

    I don't have my free bus travel card yet so I need a horsey to bet on tomorrow.

    Any help Team PB?

    Okay - are you doing the research now?
    Yes. I hadn’t looked at it yet today, still catching up on sleep from weekend this afternoon.
    Winter race day at Hexham and the weather is dry. The fastest horse will win.
    3pm HEART OF KERNOW
    Ace! Thanks for your speedy reply :)
    ---- Blockquotes not right, but the start of my comment. Omnium.

    If the thing you want is to take the free money and realise it then betting on MoonRabbit's tip is probably a good idea. I would have suggested finding a well traded football match priced around evens and backing a random side.

    In doing so you'd be turning your £5 voucher into a little bit less in terms expectaion of real money.

    MoonRabbit's tip (so far as current pricing) will most likely lose, but if it wins then you'll have multiplied your stake.

    Your main consideration in all of this is why PP are giving you £5. The answer is that they think you're a mug - not just you, anyone that they don't know.

    So don't be a mug.

    Jade bit >
    You are absolutely right, money back in form of a free bet is not the same as money back.

    I think it works the same as reward points at shops, because you feel you are getting something for free you are not shopping around? Does that make sense.

    By the same logic, if you don’t want to shop around, it is free? The people deliver my wine boxes, I get tokens I save up and get a free box of wine. Is that not a free box of wine?


    Briskin:
    If my bet comes of I'll be paid in cash
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,632
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Yes of course it is. He is fantastic live. And a really nice bloke and a neighbour of mine.
    Good to hear. Always nice when an artist one admires turns out to be a good chap, or chapess

    I've been trying to see him live for about a decade. Various events got in the way. I shall go, and if I get fatal Covid I will send you all the funeral bills, but also an invite to the Wake
    I listened to the two videos.
    Not my thing.

    But if you’ve waited ten years you’d be mad not to go.
  • Wow. Absolute fecking WOW.

    Prince Andrew had a £1.5 million loan from a secretive Luxembourg bank paid off by one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors while he was a working member of the royal family, it was claimed today.

    David Rowland settled the debt at Banque Havilland SA, which his family controls, after banking regulators began an unconnected money laundering review involving “politically exposed people”, the Bloomberg financial news agency reported.

    The Duke of York opened an account at the private bank in 2015 and borrowed an average of £125,000 every three months. The loan was extended or increased ten times before the duke requested a further £250,000 for “general working capital and living expenses” in November 2017.

    The loan was unsecured and Banque Havilland staff recorded that the loan was “not in line with the risk appetite of the bank”, an internal credit application showed.

    The growing debt was approved because it opened up “further business potential with the royal family” and would be honoured by the Queen.

    A document seen by Bloomberg records: “While the (increased) loan is unsecured and granted solely against the credibility of the applicant, both his position and that his mother is the sovereign monarch of the United Kingdom should provide access to funds for repayment if need be.”

    Eleven days after the final extension, the entire £1.5 million loan was paid off by a Guernsey-registered company controlled by the Rowland family with a payment to the bank’s London branch in December 2017.

    Earlier that year Luxembourg bank regulators opened an investigation into Banque Havilland SA which led to a £4 million fine, one of the largest to date.

    Andrew, then the government’s special representative for international trade and investment, opened the first branch of Banque Havilland in Luxembourg in 2009. Three years later he opened the bank’s branch in Monaco.

    A year after Rowland paid off his loan the duke appeared at the opening ceremony for Banque Havilland’s joint venture with the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund.

    Buckingham Palace’s code of conduct says members of the royal family should not accept a gift which “would, or might appear to, place [them] under any obligation to the donor”.

    Gifts offered by commercial enterprises in the UK “should normally be declined”, it states. The rules say they “should never accept gifts of money, or money equivalent, in connection with an official engagement or duty”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donor-repaid-prince-andrews-1-5m-loan-w7rmljc87

    There's so much more I want to say about this story but given my day job I cannot.

    How dare you smear this fine, hardworking, upstanding (!) member of the House of Windsor!

    Sir and/or Madam, have you no shame?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,085

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    OK PB, a dilemma

    A good friend has invited me to a gig by Seth Lakeman tonight, at the Union Chapel, Islington. That's one of my favourite musicians in one of my favourite venues. I've never seen him live. And I could do with a gig

    And yet, I'm 5 and a half months post 2nd jab. 2 weeks from my booster. Worth the risk?

    Yes of course it is. He is fantastic live. And a really nice bloke and a neighbour of mine.
    Good to hear. Always nice when an artist one admires turns out to be a good chap, or chapess

    I've been trying to see him live for about a decade. Various events got in the way. I shall go, and if I get fatal Covid I will send you all the funeral bills, but also an invite to the Wake
    I listened to the two videos.
    Not my thing.

    But if you’ve waited ten years you’d be mad not to go.
    Yes, indeed. Am going

    Have you ever been to the Union Chapel? A truly wonderful venue. One of my favourites anywhere on this sweet earth

    I saw the Gloaming there about 3 years ago. One of the best gigs of my life. Spine tingler
  • TIL that the wife of Ian Fleming had an affair with Hugh Gaitskell.
This discussion has been closed.