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Geoffrey Cox won’t resign, and Boris Johnson won’t make him – politicalbetting.com

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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    RSA - won’t be the nearest but probably the least time difference
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited November 2021
    @Leon you should go to Durban. Seriously. It's absolutely lovely.

    Edit - it was a decade ago when I went at least. Given how things in SA have deteriorated it's probably a shit hole now. 😢
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    RSA - won’t be the nearest but probably the least time difference
    RSA is great in places (NOT the cities) but quite a stretch

    There should be a website or app where you can just search for "nearest hot & sunny place in January"
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,461
    eek said:

    A rail replacement bus service has managed to get stuck under a railway bridge near Brighton

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19715361.rail-replacement-bus-stuck-underneath-bridge-brighton/?ref=twtrec

    Oh dear. That bridge is almost directly under the concourse of Brighton station, so the bus only made it about 20 yards if it was on its way out. Even to the naked eye it's obvious that it's too low for a double decker. And it appears to be going the wrong way up a one-way street.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Leon said:

    I was thinking maybe Vietnam, and then saw this, from an hour ago:

    "AVN News Feed
    @avnblogfeed

    Vietnam’s capital enters lockdown after ‘dangerous’ new COVID variant found"

    Great


    https://twitter.com/avnblogfeed/status/1459505607510310913?s=20

    Why not go to the Caribbean somewhere? I'm sure you could get something (relatively) reasonably priced outside of the school holidays. Go somewhere off the beaten track like Dominica. Not sure about lockdown status.
    I believe there an empty villa in BVI with excellent internet links to the UK?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    MaxPB said:

    @Leon you should go to Durban. Seriously. It's absolutely lovely.

    Isn't it as fucked up as other SA cities?
  • eek said:

    A rail replacement bus service has managed to get stuck under a railway bridge near Brighton

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19715361.rail-replacement-bus-stuck-underneath-bridge-brighton/?ref=twtrec

    Oh dear. That bridge is almost directly under the concourse of Brighton station, so the bus only made it about 20 yards if it was on its way out. Even to the naked eye it's obvious that it's too low for a double decker. And it appears to be going the wrong way up a one-way street.
    "rail replacement bus service"

    The four most dreaded words in England.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    Jeez, this is depressing

    So many countries I love are fucked. Syria was amazing once. Ethiopia is now at war. Mexico is ruined by drugs. Trini & Tobago is ruined by drugs and ISIS. China is a prison. On and on.

    And now there's Covid AS WELL
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    @Leon you should go to Durban. Seriously. It's absolutely lovely.

    Isn't it as fucked up as other SA cities?
    Yeah it probably is now, was great when I went after my graduation 13 years ago.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    A rail replacement bus service has managed to get stuck under a railway bridge near Brighton

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19715361.rail-replacement-bus-stuck-underneath-bridge-brighton/?ref=twtrec

    Oh dear. That bridge is almost directly under the concourse of Brighton station, so the bus only made it about 20 yards if it was on its way out. Even to the naked eye it's obvious that it's too low for a double decker. And it appears to be going the wrong way up a one-way street.
    "rail replacement bus service"

    The four most dreaded words in England.
    Not quite, you should have been on the 14:00 London to Aberdeen service on Tuesday.

    They finally got to Darlington at 23:15 with such delights as “the replacement train is following behind” when thrown off at Doncaster only for the driver to be time served so couldn’t continue.
    That was after having to move from train 1 to train 2 using just a blank between the trains.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    Banjul, The Gambia
    Interesting. I heard bad things about Banjul but I've never been
    Cougar town
  • .
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    Some branding, calling people by *mock horror* their name!!!

    I'd have thought you'd be more concerned if you were worried about 'branding' with Sunak's sleek social media operations with his signature attached to his policies. That's not even attempting to hide the branding.

    But keep banging on about names if you like.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I was thinking maybe Vietnam, and then saw this, from an hour ago:

    "AVN News Feed
    @avnblogfeed

    Vietnam’s capital enters lockdown after ‘dangerous’ new COVID variant found"

    Great


    https://twitter.com/avnblogfeed/status/1459505607510310913?s=20

    Why not go to the Caribbean somewhere? I'm sure you could get something (relatively) reasonably priced outside of the school holidays. Go somewhere off the beaten track like Dominica. Not sure about lockdown status.
    Not a bad idea. I'm not a huge fan of the Caribbean - they can be beautiful but the food is meh and they lack cultural interest (for me). Cuba is the exception of course

    But Dominica. Hmm
    There's nice food in parts of the Eastern Caribbean. Trinidad especially, although it's not a great place to visit outside of Carnival. Suriname has amazing food, a huge variety with European, African, Indian, Chinese and Javanese influences. Dominica is stunning, some fantastic walking, pleasant beaches, nice laid back vibe.
    Food in Cuba was terrible when we went. Interesting culture, obvs, and a lot of charm but a pretty sad place.
    Trinidad is hideously dangerous now. I have a close Trini friend and she has family there and she was thinking of retiring there, not any more. Too violent. Very sad. I loved Trinidad especially Tobago when I went many years back - for Carnival

    Surinam I do not know at all.

    I'm gonna look at Dominica

    And yes, Cuban food. OMFG. Probably the worst food I have ever had. Communism = terrible food
    Yeah it's been 20 years since I went to Trinidad. Even then it was violent but not at Carnival. I think our weekend at the Trinidad Carnival was maybe the most fun I've ever had.
    Trini Carnival is fantastic. Jouvert!

    Like you, I had a blast

    This was 30 years back but even then Port of Spain was dangerous, however (Tobago was very safe). I remember armed guards outside bars and hotels. Now it is somehow more dangerous still, I am told. Probably because of these guys:


    "The rise of Trinidad’s cocaine caliphate
    Its drug wars make it a breeding ground for Isis"

    ISIS plus drug trafficking? Fantastic. No thanks

    https://unherd.com/2021/11/the-rise-of-trinidads-cocaine-caliphate/


    So many countries have got WORSE in recent decades. Tragic
    You're a social conservative with a history of taking drugs. I would have thought you'd fit right in.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited November 2021
    Some recreational ideas for PBers.

    https://twitter.com/soapachu/status/1459543831754461189?s=20

    I think it's the white sports socks that really disgust me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    I'm disappointed you persist in pretending those that disagree with you about the effectiveness of such a brand are just being stupid and not 'getting' your point. We get it, we just don't put as much onto it as you appear to.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Some recreational ideas for PBers.

    https://twitter.com/soapachu/status/1459543831754461189?s=20

    I think it's the white sports socks that really disgust me.

    I'm wearing those exact type right now. The rest of my get up is slightly different.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    eek said:

    A rail replacement bus service has managed to get stuck under a railway bridge near Brighton

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19715361.rail-replacement-bus-stuck-underneath-bridge-brighton/?ref=twtrec

    Oh dear. That bridge is almost directly under the concourse of Brighton station, so the bus only made it about 20 yards if it was on its way out. Even to the naked eye it's obvious that it's too low for a double decker. And it appears to be going the wrong way up a one-way street.
    "rail replacement bus service"

    The four most dreaded words in England.
    I remember the endless WCML "upgrades"
    Never a partial refund on the ticket either
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    RSA - won’t be the nearest but probably the least time difference
    I thought it was the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    yes - I loved the Michael Palin Around the World in 80 days and his follow -ups Pole to Pole and Full Circle because at the time (mid 1980s) they seemed so exotic , going to places that you just not imaging going to . They lost their sparkle by 2000 when the whole world seemed to be available. Brexit though was a disaster for free movement of people
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    How's the European Delta wave today?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    Come on Ireland!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    kle4 said:

    Some recreational ideas for PBers.

    https://twitter.com/soapachu/status/1459543831754461189?s=20

    I think it's the white sports socks that really disgust me.

    I'm wearing those exact type right now. The rest of my get up is slightly different.
    It's not a dayglo balaclava and a bikini, is it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,249
    FFS too much VAR
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jeez, this is depressing

    So many countries I love are fucked. L

    Are you suggesting a connection? That's putting a lot on yourself.
    About a decade ago there was a span of a few years in a row where after my girlfriend/fiancée/wife and I visited a foreign country, the next year there'd be a coup or other major outbreak of violence.

    It became a creepy coincidence after a while, then suddenly stopped happening.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Some recreational ideas for PBers.

    https://twitter.com/soapachu/status/1459543831754461189?s=20

    I think it's the white sports socks that really disgust me.

    I'm wearing those exact type right now. The rest of my get up is slightly different.
    It's not a dayglo balaclava and a bikini, is it?
    Nailed it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    eek said:

    A rail replacement bus service has managed to get stuck under a railway bridge near Brighton

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19715361.rail-replacement-bus-stuck-underneath-bridge-brighton/?ref=twtrec

    Oh dear. That bridge is almost directly under the concourse of Brighton station, so the bus only made it about 20 yards if it was on its way out. Even to the naked eye it's obvious that it's too low for a double decker. And it appears to be going the wrong way up a one-way street.
    Lots have bus drivers have shifted to HGV. Lucky to get a driver at all!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,097
    The anger, fury, over tory sleaze from among those in the party not just outsiders is, if anything, increasing.

    The longer this goes on, the more we enter 1992-7 territory.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    Cape Verde is furrher south than the Canaries
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    Cape Verde is furrher south than the Canaries
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,097

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    yes - I loved the Michael Palin Around the World in 80 days and his follow -ups Pole to Pole and Full Circle because at the time (mid 1980s) they seemed so exotic , going to places that you just not imaging going to . They lost their sparkle by 2000 when the whole world seemed to be available. Brexit though was a disaster for free movement of people
    Himalaya is probably the finest travel series, and one of the finest of any series across all genres, ever made. An outstanding pinnacle of Michael Palin's broadcasting, in every sense.

    It's worth re-watching.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    RSA - won’t be the nearest but probably the least time difference
    I thought it was the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
    KSA is now open for tourists, previously only business or pilgrims. It looks quite interesting, but I have no plans.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    Leon said:

    Jeez, this is depressing

    So many countries I love are fucked.

    And many of them endured it more than once, as well, unlike the women.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,097
    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jeez, this is depressing

    So many countries I love are fucked. L

    Are you suggesting a connection? That's putting a lot on yourself.
    About a decade ago there was a span of a few years in a row where after my girlfriend/fiancée/wife and I visited a foreign country, the next year there'd be a coup or other major outbreak of violence.

    It became a creepy coincidence after a while, then suddenly stopped happening.
    Taking all three of your girlfriend, fiancee and wife on holiday together was probably tempting fate enough as it was.
    Goldsmith Senior, wasn't it, who said that when you married your girlfriend you created a vacancy?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    Obviously covid makes a difference, but there are countries that have become safe for tourists too. Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Rwanda, Colombia for example.

    I missed out on Kashmir before the troubles, it used to get rave reviews.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,097
    Leon, Eilat in southern Israel might tick the right boxes. Rock solid covid programme. Average 21C max in January.

    You can throw in some magical tourist experiences along the way. Masada is a stand-out as too is Jerusalem (Yad Vashem is a must). For a bit of hedonism, Tel Aviv.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I've a friend in Canada I'm determined to go and visit again before too many more years are out, but beyond that I've no interest in going long haul, either. Once the constant waves of Covid panic flapping have finally stopped then I can see the attraction of visiting the near neighbours (especially if this can be done without having to resort to air travel, which is bloody horrible,) but I've no desire to go all over the world. Long haul travel, if you want to do it in any degree of comfort, is hideously expensive and altogether too much trouble. No point in going on a holiday that you then need another holiday to get over.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,788
    CNN has a long read on "how the UK became the sick man of European tourism". One very legitimate point is about the arbitrariness of our quarantine policy

    https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/uk-tourism-decline-restrictions-cmd/index.html
  • Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Bangkok is closed for business.

    So. PB Quiz. Where is the nearest hot sunny weather in January, if you're in the UK?

    The Canaries aren't quite reliable enough. They can be cool and rainy then

    I reckon Luxor, Egypt. Any other contenders?

    Cape Verde is furrher south than the Canaries
    I broke my arm when a freak wave hit the beach I was paddling on in Cape Verde !
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I think you are right. It has gone. We are not bothered about abroad too much now. We are discovering parts of the UK. This year went to Bradford on Avon. Fantastic,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis
  • 38,351 and 157 deaths
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    Cox has no reason to resign. His story isn’t one of sleaze. Far from it.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    rcs1000 said:

    How's the European Delta wave today?

    I thought of a sick joke involving single day of reporting data, but that was a bit much for me...

    Same progression, as far as I can see.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,097
    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I've a friend in Canada I'm determined to go and visit again before too many more years are out, but beyond that I've no interest in going long haul, either. Once the constant waves of Covid panic flapping have finally stopped then I can see the attraction of visiting the near neighbours (especially if this can be done without having to resort to air travel, which is bloody horrible,) but I've no desire to go all over the world. Long haul travel, if you want to do it in any degree of comfort, is hideously expensive and altogether too much trouble. No point in going on a holiday that you then need another holiday to get over.
    Yes, I don't think that I will be doing much more long haul, though I do rather fancy Botswana and Namibia. Partly its the hassle factor of long haul but also the carbon footprint. I won't stop, but will do fewer but longer trips when I go semi retired in a couple of years. I am planning the Trans-Mongolian plus a bit of China to mark the occasion.
  • HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    His constituents have consistently re-elected him because he was the Conservative party candidate.

    Now perhaps you should consider whether Cox is an asset or a liability to the Conservative party.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    His constituents have consistently re-elected him because he was the Conservative party candidate.

    Now perhaps you should consider whether Cox is an asset or a liability to the Conservative party.
    Yes, for a party with such a strong line on "let the electors decide" there is a rather contradictory strong aversion to having recall by-elections. Indeed that was what kicked the current furore off.
  • Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I've a friend in Canada I'm determined to go and visit again before too many more years are out, but beyond that I've no interest in going long haul, either. Once the constant waves of Covid panic flapping have finally stopped then I can see the attraction of visiting the near neighbours (especially if this can be done without having to resort to air travel, which is bloody horrible,) but I've no desire to go all over the world. Long haul travel, if you want to do it in any degree of comfort, is hideously expensive and altogether too much trouble. No point in going on a holiday that you then need another holiday to get over.
    Yes, I don't think that I will be doing much more long haul, though I do rather fancy Botswana and Namibia. Partly its the hassle factor of long haul but also the carbon footprint. I won't stop, but will do fewer but longer trips when I go semi retired in a couple of years. I am planning the Trans-Mongolian plus a bit of China to mark the occasion.
    Greta will be proud of you . Dont overdo it with the eco warrior stuff )))
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited November 2021
    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    Perhaps he needs the practice, seeing as how he was wrong about the prorogation of parliament.
    Still, Sir Geoffrey got his knighthood for it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
  • Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
    I think most people would like to see a MP who can clearly get things done , knows a lot and a lot of people and has drive (of any party) than one who is a massive politico and sits in Westminster all the time
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    .
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    Willing dupes, I think.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I was thinking maybe Vietnam, and then saw this, from an hour ago:

    "AVN News Feed
    @avnblogfeed

    Vietnam’s capital enters lockdown after ‘dangerous’ new COVID variant found"

    Great


    https://twitter.com/avnblogfeed/status/1459505607510310913?s=20

    Why not go to the Caribbean somewhere? I'm sure you could get something (relatively) reasonably priced outside of the school holidays. Go somewhere off the beaten track like Dominica. Not sure about lockdown status.
    Not a bad idea. I'm not a huge fan of the Caribbean - they can be beautiful but the food is meh and they lack cultural interest (for me). Cuba is the exception of course

    But Dominica. Hmm
    Cyprus is quite warm in winter, I believe. We're thinking of that or, if I can face a long haul, Singapore.
    Depends on your definition of warm. As a kid growing up there, I thought the winters were cold. Certainly it would get down to the 40sF, but 60sF (16C) was more common. Not my definition of warm, which starts somewhere in the 80s (27C up)
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,667
    Charles said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I am told Dr Neil Shastri Hurst has been selected to fight the North Shropshire by-election for the Conservatives. Polling day is Dec 16.
    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1459522967969443850

    Uh oh

    Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst is a veteran, surgeon, and barrister.

    Also, veteran, surgeon and barrister? What a show off.

    https://www.drneilshastri-hurst.co.uk/about
    And a former British Army Officer too.

    That's some impressive CV.
    How long did he stay in any one of them? Looks like he got bored very quickly.
    That’s an unpleasant snark by you

    He was in the Medical Corps and then moved to the reservists and became a surgeon. So that’s just military to civilian.

    He then got sick and was unable to work as a surgeon any more so trained as a lawyer.
    I see you have been properly briefed by CCHQ, Lord Charles. The way he gets written up makes it sound as though he had lots of different professions.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    Obviously covid makes a difference, but there are countries that have become safe for tourists too. Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Rwanda, Colombia for example.

    I missed out on Kashmir before the troubles, it used to get rave reviews.
    Lot to be said for Laos. Laos People Democratic Republic.
    aka Laos; Please Don't Rush.
    Very laid back sort of place.

    And I'm told there's a lot to be said for N Vietnam. Only been to Ho Chi Minh City, so can't comment on, for example, Hanoi.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    @Pulpstar

    England cases 33,493 so you underestimated by quite a bit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2021
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    Perhaps he needs the practice, seeing as how he was wrong about the prorogation of parliament.
    Still, Sir Geoffrey got his knighthood for it.
    It wasn't exactly a niche opinion, the High Court in England had agreed after all.

    Come to think of it, what even is his speciality?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    eek said:

    eek said:

    A rail replacement bus service has managed to get stuck under a railway bridge near Brighton

    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19715361.rail-replacement-bus-stuck-underneath-bridge-brighton/?ref=twtrec

    Oh dear. That bridge is almost directly under the concourse of Brighton station, so the bus only made it about 20 yards if it was on its way out. Even to the naked eye it's obvious that it's too low for a double decker. And it appears to be going the wrong way up a one-way street.
    "rail replacement bus service"

    The four most dreaded words in England.
    Not quite, you should have been on the 14:00 London to Aberdeen service on Tuesday.

    They finally got to Darlington at 23:15 with such delights as “the replacement train is following behind” when thrown off at Doncaster only for the driver to be time served so couldn’t continue.
    That was after having to move from train 1 to train 2 using just a blank between the trains.
    "(wrong types of) Leaves on track"
  • Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
    I think most people would like to see a MP who can clearly get things done , knows a lot and a lot of people and has drive (of any party) than one who is a massive politico and sits in Westminster all the time
    That depends who is benefiting from those talents.

    If its the country or the constituency then that's great.

    If its only the MP while the constituency is ignored then that's a different matter.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I've a friend in Canada I'm determined to go and visit again before too many more years are out, but beyond that I've no interest in going long haul, either. Once the constant waves of Covid panic flapping have finally stopped then I can see the attraction of visiting the near neighbours (especially if this can be done without having to resort to air travel, which is bloody horrible,) but I've no desire to go all over the world. Long haul travel, if you want to do it in any degree of comfort, is hideously expensive and altogether too much trouble. No point in going on a holiday that you then need another holiday to get over.
    Yes, I don't think that I will be doing much more long haul, though I do rather fancy Botswana and Namibia. Partly its the hassle factor of long haul but also the carbon footprint. I won't stop, but will do fewer but longer trips when I go semi retired in a couple of years. I am planning the Trans-Mongolian plus a bit of China to mark the occasion.
    ??
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    edited November 2021
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    I'm disappointed you persist in pretending those that disagree with you about the effectiveness of such a brand are just being stupid and not 'getting' your point. We get it, we just don't put as much onto it as you appear to.
    First time I've mentioned it in ages.

    You bridle at it because, I think, you're thinking that I think you've succumbed to the Boris brand yourself, given you're an habitual user of the "Boris" handle. I can reassure you on this. I don't think that. Indeed I think the opposite - that you haven't. You don't use "Boris" in a manner that indicates to me you've succumbed.

    Always calling him "Boris" is a necessary but not sufficient piece of evidence of having succumbed. The extra evidence required lies in the tone in which "Boris" is said and discussed. Does the speaker seem to be talking about a bloke they know well and are rather fond of? Could one insert the missing words "good old" before the "Boris" without compromising the sentiment being expressed?

    If the answer here is 'yes' one knows one is in the presence of one who has succumbed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Cox will stand down at the next election I reckon. He's never needed the job for the money, he has no prospect of regaining high office, and while he might well do enough for his constituents if he is right, he obviously isn't throwing himself into that work like committed backbenchers.

    As Quincel says sticking by him until at least then, if not beyond, doesn't really take much effort.

    Agree. He won't resign because he's technically done nothing wrong, or at least it is, as yet, unproven

    But why endure all the crap? Step down to spend more time with his hoard of gold
    GREED
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Cox will stand down at the next election I reckon. He's never needed the job for the money, he has no prospect of regaining high office, and while he might well do enough for his constituents if he is right, he obviously isn't throwing himself into that work like committed backbenchers.

    As Quincel says sticking by him until at least then, if not beyond, doesn't really take much effort.

    Agree. He won't resign because he's technically done nothing wrong, or at least it is, as yet, unproven

    But why endure all the crap? Step down to spend more time with his hoard of gold
    GREED
    And neglect of duty
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,147
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
    On the other hand, there is at least one major sleaze story coming up. All the media need to do is to keep the slipway lightly lubricated with regular applications of slush and things will be nicely ready for the big launch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2021

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    His constituents have consistently re-elected him because he was the Conservative party candidate.

    Now perhaps you should consider whether Cox is an asset or a liability to the Conservative party.
    Given Cox has taken the Conservative vote in Torridge and West Devon from 38% in 1997 (when it was a LD seat) to 40% when he was first a candidate in 2001 to taking the seat from the LDs in 2005, to a whopping 60% of the vote in 2019, quite clearly an asset
  • UK forces (engineers, I presume) are now helping 🇵🇱 troops protect and strengthen the 🇪🇺 external border.

    https://twitter.com/remkorteweg/status/1459550812326309893?s=21
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
    On the other hand, there is at least one major sleaze story coming up. All the media need to do is to keep the slipway lightly lubricated with regular applications of slush and things will be nicely ready for the big launch.
    Exactly. Don't leave Boris time to... paper over the cracks?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I've a friend in Canada I'm determined to go and visit again before too many more years are out, but beyond that I've no interest in going long haul, either. Once the constant waves of Covid panic flapping have finally stopped then I can see the attraction of visiting the near neighbours (especially if this can be done without having to resort to air travel, which is bloody horrible,) but I've no desire to go all over the world. Long haul travel, if you want to do it in any degree of comfort, is hideously expensive and altogether too much trouble. No point in going on a holiday that you then need another holiday to get over.
    We've family, including our last sub-teenage grandchild, in Thailand. We hope they're coming over here this Christmas ..... all planned, but just might be a visa issue.
    And we want to go and see them when I'm mobile again.

    We've been to lots of places, but there are some I regret not having done; the Caribbean area for one, and Patagonia for another.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,147
    ClippP said:

    Charles said:

    ClippP said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I am told Dr Neil Shastri Hurst has been selected to fight the North Shropshire by-election for the Conservatives. Polling day is Dec 16.
    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1459522967969443850

    Uh oh

    Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst is a veteran, surgeon, and barrister.

    Also, veteran, surgeon and barrister? What a show off.

    https://www.drneilshastri-hurst.co.uk/about
    And a former British Army Officer too.

    That's some impressive CV.
    How long did he stay in any one of them? Looks like he got bored very quickly.
    That’s an unpleasant snark by you

    He was in the Medical Corps and then moved to the reservists and became a surgeon. So that’s just military to civilian.

    He then got sick and was unable to work as a surgeon any more so trained as a lawyer.
    I see you have been properly briefed by CCHQ, Lord Charles. The way he gets written up makes it sound as though he had lots of different professions.
    I had the same thought, 'that's an anomaly'; if I were interviewing him and saw that CV I'd be probing to find the explanation. As you say, really the one profession in different manifestations.
  • Afternoon all! Saturday recording session - had to open a new Minidisc. That pop as you break the plastic seal on the wrapper - ooh. Kids these days are missing out on the joy of recordable media.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited November 2021
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    If a few people motivated by envy don't want top non political professionals in politics then banning people from continuing to practice their profession after being elected would be a way to do so.

    If QCs, partners in city firms, surgeons etc can earn multiple times an MPs salary, almost none of them would bother standing for parliament if they were banned from still practicing and earning from their former career after election. Certainly Sir Keir is quite happy to still do paid legal work
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7484061/Keir-Starmer-pockets-6-000-15-hours-legal-work-MPs-salary.html

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited November 2021
    Taz said:
    But you won't see it reported on the leftie, biased BBC
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,147
    Taz said:
    It's getting like the sharn-spreader on the farm fields behind my house.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited November 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    I'm disappointed you persist in pretending those that disagree with you about the effectiveness of such a brand are just being stupid and not 'getting' your point. We get it, we just don't put as much onto it as you appear to.
    First time I've mentioned it in ages.

    You bridle at it because, I think, you're thinking that I think you've succumbed to the Boris brand yourself, given you're an habitual user of the "Boris" handle. I can reassure you on this. I don't think that. Indeed I think the opposite - that you haven't. You don't use "Boris" in a manner that indicates to me you've succumbed.

    Always calling him "Boris" is a necessary but not sufficient piece of evidence of having succumbed. The extra evidence required lies in the tone in which "Boris" is said and discussed. Does the speaker seem to be talking about a bloke they know well and are rather fond of? Could one insert the missing words "good old" before the "Boris" without compromising the sentiment being expressed by them?

    If the answer here is 'yes' one knows one is in the presence of one who has succumbed.
    I didn't say you had mentioned it much in ages, I cannot remember the last time you did. The reason I bridle is I think it is fundamentally patronising, eg your 'disappointed how few seem [to get it]' line. I know you don't mean to be, and you're right branding is important for a politician and Boris's is powerful, but I think you present a picture where we should presume use of the name indicates someone has 'succumbed', when as you've just noted more than that is needed. I just spent a weekend in a Corbynite household which unprompted literally wished death on 'Boris' more than once - even if that is not the norm, I just find it hard to accept the brand of the name cannot equally be a hindrance to him.
  • Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
    I think most people would like to see a MP who can clearly get things done , knows a lot and a lot of people and has drive (of any party) than one who is a massive politico and sits in Westminster all the time
    That depends who is benefiting from those talents.

    If its the country or the constituency then that's great.

    If its only the MP while the constituency is ignored then that's a different matter.
    And this could be where much of the difference in view between the red wall Conservatives and those from the safe southern seats arises.

    The red wall Conservatives are used to their constituents being ignored by absentee, troughing MPs.

    But those absentee, troughing MPs were the previous Labour MPs and it was that absentee, troughing attitude they fought against.

    Add on the red wall Conservatives will have a streak of anti-establishment attitude - the Conservative party after all not being the political establishment in mining towns up north.

    So they're not going to have sympathy for absentee, troughing MPs just because they happen to be Conservatives who think they're entitled to do what they want because that's the way establishment politicians have always done so.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jeez, this is depressing

    So many countries I love are fucked. L

    Are you suggesting a connection? That's putting a lot on yourself.
    About a decade ago there was a span of a few years in a row where after my girlfriend/fiancée/wife and I visited a foreign country, the next year there'd be a coup or other major outbreak of violence.

    It became a creepy coincidence after a while, then suddenly stopped happening.
    Taking all three of your girlfriend, fiancee and wife on holiday together was probably tempting fate enough as it was.
    Goldsmith Senior, wasn't it, who said that when you married your girlfriend you created a vacancy?
    No, he said when your marry your mistress then you're creating a vacancy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,147
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    If a few people motivated by envy don't want top non political professionals in politics then banning people from continuing to practice their profession after being elected would be a way to do so.

    If QCs, partners in city firms, surgeons etc can earn multiple times an MPs salary, almost none of them would bother standing for parliament if they were banned from still practicing and earning from their former career after election.

    Plaintive apologies. Pardon while I go and slice an onion at the temerity of the hoi polloi for complaining that X is paid a great deal of money by them to do job A and still wants to do Job B, hustle C, and fiddle D on top.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    I love this. Really love it. The more you take this kind of line the more I know Labour will win the next election.

    You don't have a clue how angry people are about this ...
    I vote labour and I agree with HYUFD. Cox has done nothing wrong apart from a minor technical breach. I also don’t see a great deal of anger aside from on social media. Clearly it’s cut through and the media are happy to keep it going for the clicks.

    I suspect people will tire of it unless there are some major revelations in the Sunday’s. Recent stories are pretty thin stuff.
    I think most people would like to see a MP who can clearly get things done , knows a lot and a lot of people and has drive (of any party) than one who is a massive politico and sits in Westminster all the time
    It is though somewhat too much. He should be getting things done in Parliament or in his constituency. Maybe he has been doing that too.

    He seems to have let his constituents down somewhat and certainly let himself down. I don't think it's a resigning matter unless he concludes that it is.

    Whatever the truth he'll be a lot less smug now.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:
    But you won't see it reported on the leftie, biased BBC
    It appears to me that the BBC has, shifted significantly Tory-wards of late, presumably under threats from Downing St.
    Not that, as a leftie, I always felt it biased to 'our side'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Jeez, this is depressing

    So many countries I love are fucked. L

    Are you suggesting a connection? That's putting a lot on yourself.
    About a decade ago there was a span of a few years in a row where after my girlfriend/fiancée/wife and I visited a foreign country, the next year there'd be a coup or other major outbreak of violence.

    It became a creepy coincidence after a while, then suddenly stopped happening.
    Taking all three of your girlfriend, fiancee and wife on holiday together was probably tempting fate enough as it was.
    He is, after all, a libertarian.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:
    It's getting like the sharn-spreader on the farm fields behind my house.
    Quite.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Taz said:
    This is reminding me a bit of the old rule in Cricket around extension of the arm, and that once they looked at it scientifically it appeared virtually all bowlers were technically in breach, so they made the rules more flexible. It feels like a lot of MPs are going to be caught out, particularly with Zoom calls, and I wonder if there will be a push for zero tolerance adherence, or an attempt to distinguish a bit around the non-parliamentary work in question - eg political lobbying or significant external exployment.

    I do like that Blunt is a little off message by saying he'll accept the findings of any investigation, but basically it never even occurred to him and there's a feeding frenzy.
  • Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see why Cox should resign.

    His earnings have all come from the Bar, so that is just keeping his hand in his previous profession as a QC not lobbying. His constituents have consistently re elected him on that basis

    Perhaps he needs the practice, seeing as how he was wrong about the prorogation of parliament.
    Still, Sir Geoffrey got his knighthood for it.
    That's unfair, the High Court agreed with his view, if it was a really bad decision then it would have been overturned there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,147
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:
    It's getting like the sharn-spreader on the farm fields behind my house.
    Quite.
    But if the shite is there to shovel in the first place, what does one expect?
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:
    It's getting like the sharn-spreader on the farm fields behind my house.
    Quite.
    But if the shite is there to shovel in the first place, what does one expect?
    I’m more surprised at how much they were paid just to join a zoom call to discuss the matter.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,147
    edited November 2021
    O/T but seasonally relevant: completely bemused by this Lego set when looking at Edinburgh toyshops for Xmas:

    https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/lego-adidas-original-superstars/

    "The Adidas Original Superstars trainer can be made either right or left footed. Real shoelaces give the brick-built model a realistic appearance. Tagged inside just like a real adidas trainer. Comes with stand and plaque to display your creation."
  • They've handed Verstappen the title.

    The stewards are Tw@s
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:
    This is reminding me a bit of the old rule in Cricket around extension of the arm, and that once they looked at it scientifically it appeared virtually all bowlers were technically in breach, so they made the rules more flexible. It feels like a lot of MPs are going to be caught out, particularly with Zoom calls, and I wonder if there will be a push for zero tolerance adherence, or an attempt to distinguish a bit around the non-parliamentary work in question - eg political lobbying or significant external exployment.

    I do like that Blunt is a little off message by saying he'll accept the findings of any investigation, but basically it never even occurred to him and there's a feeding frenzy.
    Bryant himself is no absolutist:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/13/chris-bryant-ill-report-the-next-mp-who-tries-to-lobby-me

    I agree with his view that it’s being paid to lobby which is the really objectionable thing.
  • kle4 said:

    Taz said:
    This is reminding me a bit of the old rule in Cricket around extension of the arm, and that once they looked at it scientifically it appeared virtually all bowlers were technically in breach, so they made the rules more flexible. It feels like a lot of MPs are going to be caught out, particularly with Zoom calls, and I wonder if there will be a push for zero tolerance adherence, or an attempt to distinguish a bit around the non-parliamentary work in question - eg political lobbying or significant external exployment.

    I do like that Blunt is a little off message by saying he'll accept the findings of any investigation, but basically it never even occurred to him and there's a feeding frenzy.
    I posted about Leyla Moran earlier, but was assured that because the money involved was less it was not an issue

    Amazing Lib Dems cannot see that if it is prohibited it is prohibited, and she has broken the rule with no doubt many others
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    Some branding, calling people by *mock horror* their name!!!

    I'd have thought you'd be more concerned if you were worried about 'branding' with Sunak's sleek social media operations with his signature attached to his policies. That's not even attempting to hide the branding.

    But keep banging on about names if you like.
    Once again, it's not about names, it's about where we're getting a brand, or to put it another way, a persona in lieu of a person.

    Eg, Cameron, Blair, Brown in the world of internet punditry often got called Dave, Gordon, Tony but there was no Dave or Gordon or Tony brand to speak of. Maybe a touch of it with the latter but not really. Certainly nothing to touch the BB juggernaut.

    And you're dead right about Sunak. Well spotted there. He is hell bent on a brand. He's seen "Boris" win the sort of landslide that "Johnson" - or even "Boris Johnson" - wouldn't have been able to and he's taken notes. He wants to be a consumer product and he wants that product to be called Rishi.

    Whatever, I won't be buying it. Not because I dislike Rishi Sunak, I don't, but because I wish to retain some detachment, assess him objectively as a politician.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    1950-2015 (roughly) was a golden age of travel, looking back. The entire world got freer and more accessible.

    So much of that has gone, whether by war, drugs, crime, Islamism, terror, China, I wonder if it will ever return. And now climate change and Covid on top

    It has gone and won't return.

    I was very lucky. I travelled to far flung parts when the world was yet young to travel. I experienced sights, sounds and tastes which have now forever passed.

    I have given up on international travel. Instead I am rediscovering the glories of the British Isles. These islands are spectacular. I wonder now why I ever bothered going away. I shall not do so again. It's too much hassle and not enough fun.
    I've a friend in Canada I'm determined to go and visit again before too many more years are out, but beyond that I've no interest in going long haul, either. Once the constant waves of Covid panic flapping have finally stopped then I can see the attraction of visiting the near neighbours (especially if this can be done without having to resort to air travel, which is bloody horrible,) but I've no desire to go all over the world. Long haul travel, if you want to do it in any degree of comfort, is hideously expensive and altogether too much trouble. No point in going on a holiday that you then need another holiday to get over.
    Yes, I don't think that I will be doing much more long haul, though I do rather fancy Botswana and Namibia. Partly its the hassle factor of long haul but also the carbon footprint. I won't stop, but will do fewer but longer trips when I go semi retired in a couple of years. I am planning the Trans-Mongolian plus a bit of China to mark the occasion.
    Greta will be proud of you . Dont overdo it with the eco warrior stuff )))
    Yes, on the one hand there is the carbon footprint, but on the other, tourism is a major source of Forex for lots of poor countries, and a major reason to preserve wilderness and ecological diversity.

    I have cut back my carbon footprint a lot, but not yet ready to give up flights entirely.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    The obituaries for Johnson seem a little premature to me. Have we forgotten that governments tend to be behind in the polls in midterm? It won't necessarily be easy for them to find someone as amenable to the electorate.

    That said Boris is an instant gratification prime minister who's unlikely to be able to afford a giveaway come 2024. And he doesn't command much sense of loyalty from the troops.

    I still expect him to lead into the GE, however I no longer think he's a massive fav to be PM after it. Therefore I've cashed out my long BJ/Con positions and I'm starting again. I price it now (on PM post GE) as Johnson 50% Starmer 30% Other 20%.

    As for that 'Other', I'm picking up in Toryland the pushing of a new cult of personality around the CoE. Just as Johnson is brand "Boris" - and people know my feelings about this - so Sunak seems to be becoming "Rishi" to lots of people who know him only through the tv. An unwelcome development.
    Overegged?

    I think he's been Rishi in the papers since I noticed him.
    Yes the papers are in on it. They're lining up someone to get behind to stop the dreaded slightly left of centre Labour prevailing in the event of Johnson coming a cropper.
    This is how you come across banging on about Boris, Ed, Dave, Rishi, Nicola etc getting referred to by their names:
    image
    It's not 1st names per se that I bridle at, it's when I detect the pushing and the swallowing of a brand. Wouldn't expect everyone to get the point but I'm slightly disappointed at how few seem to.
    Some branding, calling people by *mock horror* their name!!!

    I'd have thought you'd be more concerned if you were worried about 'branding' with Sunak's sleek social media operations with his signature attached to his policies. That's not even attempting to hide the branding.

    But keep banging on about names if you like.
    Once again, it's not about names, it's about where we're getting a brand, or to put it another way, a persona in lieu of a person.

    Eg, Cameron, Blair, Brown in the world of internet punditry often got called Dave, Gordon, Tony but there was no Dave or Gordon or Tony brand to speak of. Maybe a touch of it with the latter but not really. Certainly nothing to touch the BB juggernaut.

    And you're dead right about Sunak. Well spotted there. He is hell bent on a brand. He's seen "Boris" win the sort of landslide that "Johnson" - or even "Boris Johnson" - wouldn't have been able to and he's taken notes. He wants to be a consumer product and he wants that product to be called Rishi.

    Whatever, I won't be buying it. Not because I dislike Rishi Sunak, I don't, but because I wish to retain some detachment, assess him objectively as a politician.
    Dave, Gordon, Tony all had brands in that sense. Quite strong ones.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited November 2021
    Heathener said:

    The anger, fury, over tory sleaze from among those in the party not just outsiders is, if anything, increasing.

    The longer this goes on, the more we enter 1992-7 territory.

    No. Because 92-97 sleaze was only part of the story.

    1. The ERM disaster destroyed the Tories economic credibility

    2. Maastricht and all the other rows over Europe destroyed the Tories internal discipline.

    3. Tony Blair destroyed everything else.

    "Tory Sleaze" was part of the picture in 92-97 (a big part for sure) but the situation was vastly graver for the Conservatives then than it is now.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:
    This is reminding me a bit of the old rule in Cricket around extension of the arm, and that once they looked at it scientifically it appeared virtually all bowlers were technically in breach, so they made the rules more flexible. It feels like a lot of MPs are going to be caught out, particularly with Zoom calls, and I wonder if there will be a push for zero tolerance adherence, or an attempt to distinguish a bit around the non-parliamentary work in question - eg political lobbying or significant external exployment.

    I do like that Blunt is a little off message by saying he'll accept the findings of any investigation, but basically it never even occurred to him and there's a feeding frenzy.
    I posted about Leyla Moran earlier, but was assured that because the money involved was less it was not an issue

    Amazing Lib Dems cannot see that if it is prohibited it is prohibited, and she has broken the rule with no doubt many others
    I suppose when she saw so many across the House doing far more, and there was issue about a Zoom site (IIRC) she got enthusiastic and went for it.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:
    This is reminding me a bit of the old rule in Cricket around extension of the arm, and that once they looked at it scientifically it appeared virtually all bowlers were technically in breach, so they made the rules more flexible. It feels like a lot of MPs are going to be caught out, particularly with Zoom calls, and I wonder if there will be a push for zero tolerance adherence, or an attempt to distinguish a bit around the non-parliamentary work in question - eg political lobbying or significant external exployment.

    I do like that Blunt is a little off message by saying he'll accept the findings of any investigation, but basically it never even occurred to him and there's a feeding frenzy.
    I posted about Leyla Moran earlier, but was assured that because the money involved was less it was not an issue

    Amazing Lib Dems cannot see that if it is prohibited it is prohibited, and she has broken the rule with no doubt many others
    Interesting that you mentioned Moran, but not Blunt or Khan.
This discussion has been closed.