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Number 10 must be hoping that this is an outlier – politicalbetting.com

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  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    It had seemed to me surprising that Johnson, in order to get the refurbishment of his flat paid for, should have been trying to set up a charity to cover the costs. I believe I now understand this, thanks to publication of the accounts of the Aspinall Foundation, which employs Johnson's wife. Carrie must have known how easy it is to spend charity’s funds for one’s own benefit. The Aspinall Foundation had paid large sums to its Chairman’s wife for “interior design services”. Perhaps the idea of setting up a charity was to ensure that a bit of income accrued to Carrie herself even while the refurbishment would be very much to her personal taste. (And it's not as if it's difficult to get plenty of money donated by Tory donors.)
  • Well done the likes of Aaron Bell who correctly and bravely ignored the whips.
    I’d imagine BJ’s future rests largely on how resentful those Tory mps who were harried into the sheep pens by whips feel. I tend to think if they can be bullied away from principle and honour once..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    edited November 2021

    Eh?
    I’ve lost quite a bit of respect for Salmond lately but I’m not sure what you’re on about here.

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/423924/alex-salmond-pledges-donate-salary-charity/
    Still not simple, thanks the administrative refusal simply to withhold salary.

    The point - for both - might also be made that if one is on 40%/41% income tax band then donations to charity do not have the same marginal cost as for most of us; indeed, depending on the details, some tax is actually refunded. So each would presumably have got tax back on the salary that he was keeping.

    Pension and NI deductions, if compulsory, would also be to their overall credit.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    boulay said:

    I would hope that the legal terms of the “escrow” would bind in the bank that was holding the funds that they could only release the funds once specific agreed terms were met and that the bank would have to be a major institution that isn’t going to risk their licences if they broke the terms.

    Usual escrow would be permission from both sides, so Iran would just say it’s no change
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Good morning

    We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions

    As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
    I have read some fantasy stuff in my time but to be accused by you of not contributing to discussions is the best. You vaccilate between between a cult Tory , you post utter claptrap , take offence at people rightly stating you are a Tory cult member who resigns at least weekly. You pontificate crap on Scotland because you lived there fifty years ago
    Take a hard look at your own posting before insulting me. I at least show some alternative opinions rather than posting as if it was 1920 and "upset Tunbridge Wells" was posting.
    @Big_G_NorthWales
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited November 2021
    Farooq said:

    They made a choice, and they made it wrong. The fact that they were made to look foolish so immediately is actually good news, because it means they'll think a little harder next time about whether to obey or listen to their own conscience."Feeling" for them is the wrong response in my opinion. A better response to them would be asking "what the hell were you even thinking?"
    Fair enough, but don't underestimate how difficult it is for an MP (especially a newly-elected one with ministerial ambition) to ignore a whip.

    And as we know, this government prizes loyalty above all else.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    DavidL said:

    If he did I apologise but I have a vague recollection that the evidence that he followed through on this undertaking was incomplete to non existent, a bit like my MP's (Chris Law) promise to convert some of his castle into a day care facility for disabled children.
    This is getting a bit like Glasgow people smugglers, is it not?

  • Charles said:

    Why would he be at Chevening not Chequers?
    Don't know, but it was reported at the time.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-part-time-prime-minister/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831
    Farooq said:

    They made a choice, and they made it wrong. The fact that they were made to look foolish so immediately is actually good news, because it means they'll think a little harder next time about whether to obey or listen to their own conscience."Feeling" for them is the wrong response in my opinion. A better response to them would be asking "what the hell were you even thinking?"
    Indeed. One of them phoned in to Andrew Castle on LBC on Saturday morning - I can't remember who it was (someone senior in the '22, I think) but his line was "yes, I voted for it, but now I've thought about it, wished I hadn't..." The comments of some of the public who phoned in afterwards were priceless.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Taz said:

    That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.

    I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
    He might have thought about it before pontificating about how they should all be honest and above board and submitting all their earnings.
  • DavidL said:

    If he did I apologise but I have a vague recollection that the evidence that he followed through on this undertaking was incomplete to non existent, a bit like my MP's (Chris Law) promise to convert some of his castle into a day care facility for disabled children.
    Oh well, case closed, take the prisoner down.

    Unionist concern for Salmond receiving justice seems very variable.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    Carnyx said:

    This is getting a bit like Glasgow people smugglers, is it not?

    Sorry, you are going to have to explain that one (if you can be arsed).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,664
    Foxy said:

    Yes, and that is broadly the LD policy, with Labour coming out in even more dilute form.
    Politics is what it is, and elections are too. The issue the LDs will have to be clear about in their policy is: What is the timetable for a return to freedom of movement.

    If you could be in the SM without FoM we wouldn't be where we are.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    An almost comedic response. We are though appropriate for trans-Pacific and Nafta?

    Free trade is a goal for all major economies. We had free trade with a giant trading block just 22 miles away, we have now imposed masses of red tape and bureaucracy. Exactly the kind of thing the Tories have campaigned against for decades, yet barriers and red tape for Brexit are suddenly being lauded as a Good Thing.

    We aren't that stupid...
    The EEA is a rule taking organisation

    NAFTA and transpacific are not.

    But to be honest, and I’m not trying to be personal, you are an example of what makes PB so dull at the moment.

    You have your hobby horse and you ride it into the ground. You don’t engage with posts who disagree except to insult (“comedic response”) and then the next day you are back on your hobby horse again.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    A statement has now been released from the Indian council of Scotland with regards Humza and his wife in regards to Little Scholars Nursery

    https://twitter.com/ga11acher/status/1459287825128505351?s=20

    He is a real nasty piece of work and among the worst government ministers in history , he has made a mess of every department he has been in charge of.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,755

    I’d imagine BJ’s future rests largely on how resentful those Tory mps who were harried into the sheep pens by whips feel. I tend to think if they can be bullied away from principle and honour once..
    Principle and honour? They were elected under Johnson's manifesto - and every single one of them knew what they were doing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    DavidL said:

    Sorry, you are going to have to explain that one (if you can be arsed).
    Sorry - an allusion to a PBer (not you) recently stating that two chaps in Glasgow were people smugglers and then being rather reluctant to back down when the known facts were pointed out.
  • Music by county of origin, Scotch edition

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831
    algarkirk said:

    Politics is what it is, and elections are too. The issue the LDs will have to be clear about in their policy is: What is the timetable for a return to freedom of movement.

    If you could be in the SM without FoM we wouldn't be where we are.

    All taking away FoM has achieved is depriving the NHS of nurses and created a shortage of hospitality and care staff, while making things difficult for Brits wishing to travel, live or study abroad. We still have migrants coming here illegally and desperate scenes at Calais and on the channel, and have been forced to create visa exceptions to our own new restrictions just to try and keep some sectors of the economy afloat. Where's the upside?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751

    Oh well, case closed, take the prisoner down.

    Unionist concern for Salmond receiving justice seems very variable.
    My point was simply that @malcolmg's description of Ross as "bent" was seriously misplaced. He is, frankly, a little dull, a little wooden and somewhat short of inspirational but the attempt to paint him as someone who is greedily putting his nose in the trough is simply wrong.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644
    Charles said:

    Speaking in the commons is only a fraction of the work that MPs do, although @NickPalmer would know better than me
    Yes, I agree, though once in two years is a bit extreme - I'd expect any MP to be interested in *something* and find an opportunity to raise it in public, as part of a wider effort. No sane person is interested in everything - in 13 years I never took part in a single debate on the fishing industry.

    If Cox were to say that he'd pursued issue X vigorously and had N meetings with interested groups and several meetings with Ministers, after which a useful amendment had been introduced by the Government, that'd be fine. But merely saying "I'm doing invisible stuff, trust me", is pushing your luck, and if it turns out you're partly doing it from the Virgin Islands, you're on thin ice in terms of public credibility.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Is 5/6 so good we're just ahead of 1, then?
    But seriously, are you saying that because we're 5th biggest, we're too big? So presumably Germany (4th) and maybe France (6th) and Italy (7th) are 'not appropriate'?
    Germany France and Italy are in the EU (to be fair in my post, it would have been clearer if I had said EFTA not EEA).

    It makes sense to have free trade with Europe. But this should be on the basis of negotiated terms or equivalence. It makes no sense for an economy of our size to be a rule taker (or to agree to dynamic alignment)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    malcolmg said:

    He might have thought about it before pontificating about how they should all be honest and above board and submitting all their earnings.
    I don't think admin errors cut it any more. Too many MPs etc are using that excuse. HMG charges me 100% if I make an admin error with my taxes. (though, to be fair, they did not levy any penalty when my then very old and ailing mum made a hash of her tax - were quite happy to have the belated tax).
  • Tres said:

    Principle and honour? They were elected under Johnson's manifesto - and every single one of them knew what they were doing.
    Fair enough, I knew there was a flaw in my logic!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644
    malcolmg said:

    Just another bent as a three bob bit Tory who only remembers they earned £30K on the side when it appears in the newspapers. These are the creeps that voted to take £20 quid a week off people who were getting £75 a week saying they could work 2 hours a week and make it up. How do these evil gits sleep at night.
    For once I agree with malcolmg - THAT is the issue that will really wind up people in difficulty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056
    edited November 2021
    Off topic, but I saw Eternals last night - I can see why some are saying it is the most 'meh' of the Marvel movies, it is possibly the weakest of them in some ways and is structured a bit weird, but I will say it includes possibly the most blatant example of a movie revealing one of its main characters is completely pointless that I've ever seen, when one of the gang just, well, buggers off home before the end. I was expecting a Han Solo triumphal moment, but no, and it was almost refreshing in being different even if narratively it seems very weird. Unless I was bored and missed it.
  • On topic. This reminds me of mid term polls in earlier governments. People on both sides get too excited / fearful based on their personal views of Boris. We are a couple of years away from an election. Chill. Oh and OGH is right about nothing happen until the new boundaries are in place.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Music by county of origin, Scotch edition

    I thought Aztec Camera originated in East Kilbride - as did the Jesus and Mary Chain (a notable omission).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831
    Charles said:

    Germany France and Italy are in the EU (to be fair in my post, it would have been clearer if I had said EFTA not EEA).

    It makes sense to have free trade with Europe. But this should be on the basis of negotiated terms or equivalence. It makes no sense for an economy of our size to be a rule taker (or to agree to dynamic alignment)
    If we export to the US we have to take their rules, and to the EU theirs, and pending the promised explosion in exports to tiny New Zealand upon whom I am sure we can impose British standards, expecting to 'take back control' in an increasingly inter-connected world was always a false expectation.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Carnyx said:

    Sorry - an allusion to a PBer (not you) recently stating that two chaps in Glasgow were people smugglers and then being rather reluctant to back down when the known facts were pointed out.
    That’s unfair!

    I went to find the article (or tweet I believe) and couldn’t. So owned up to the fact that I thought I’d seen one but couldn’t provide the backup.
  • Charles said:

    Germany France and Italy are in the EU (to be fair in my post, it would have been clearer if I had said EFTA not EEA).

    It makes sense to have free trade with Europe. But this should be on the basis of negotiated terms or equivalence. It makes no sense for an economy of our size to be a rule taker (or to agree to dynamic alignment)
    Yes, clearer as in not wrong. And your second paragraph (equivalence, negotiation, not a rule taker) sounds very much like a case for, hmm, being in the EU. /snark
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    DavidL said:

    My point was simply that @malcolmg's description of Ross as "bent" was seriously misplaced. He is, frankly, a little dull, a little wooden and somewhat short of inspirational but the attempt to paint him as someone who is greedily putting his nose in the trough is simply wrong.

    The result is the same. Admin errors and claiming public moneys for double benefit. Charity is irrelevant. It's by definition his disposable income. And as I pointed out earlier, he (and others such as Mr Salmond)also get benefits independent of simply giving the income to charity, unless each is or has a punctilious accountant (which in fairness he may well be, come ot think of it).
  • TresTres Posts: 2,755

    Music by county of origin, Scotch edition

    No Annie Lennox? Bizarre.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Charles said:

    That’s unfair!

    I went to find the article (or tweet I believe) and couldn’t. So owned up to the fact that I thought I’d seen one but couldn’t provide the backup.
    I certainly don't recall ever seeing any such article. It might well be a case of a newspaper making an error and then quietly amending it without letting on.
  • DavidL said:

    My point was simply that @malcolmg's description of Ross as "bent" was seriously misplaced. He is, frankly, a little dull, a little wooden and somewhat short of inspirational but the attempt to paint him as someone who is greedily putting his nose in the trough is simply wrong.

    Good to see that you’re against painting someone as greedily putting their nose in the trough when it’s not true. Mostly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Farooq said:

    And Eels? I'm missing the joke here aren't I?
    Air in Ayrshire ...

    And Moray Eels. Presumably.
  • Carnyx said:

    I certainly don't recall ever seeing any such article. It might well be a case of a newspaper making an error and then quietly amending it without letting on.
    Or voices in the head..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Farooq said:

    I can't understand this map. Some of them are right, but others look totally weird. I think there's some jokes going on with place names like Air / Ayr, Ross, Sutherland, etc. But some of them look right. Very weird.
    W. Wallace in Falkirk/Stirling area, obvs. But Proclaimers in Fife makes sort of sense (grew up there).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    Snouts in the trough
  • I think it's a wind up

    The US version is just silly!

  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001
    kle4 said:

    Off topic, but I saw Eternals last night - I can see why some are saying it is the most 'meh' of the Marvel movies, it is possibly the weakest of them in some ways and is structured a bit weird, but I will say it includes possibly the most blatant example of a movie revealing one of its main characters is completely pointless that I've ever seen, when one of the gang just, well, buggers off home before the end. I was expecting a Han Solo triumphal moment, but no, and it was almost refreshing in being different even if narratively it seems very weird. Unless I was bored and missed it.

    Someone mentioned the film Ad Astra on here the other day. I tried to watch it last night and all I could think was that it was an extended sci-fi version of that dreadful Brad Pitt Chanel No 5 ad he did a few years ago with his voice just dribbling out things that must have seemed profound to the writers with moody shots of him!

    Take out the words “Chanel No 5” from the below words from the advert and it could have been any line from the film….

    “It’s not a journey. Every journey ends, but we go on. The world turns and we turn with it. Plans disappear, dreams take over, but wherever I go, there you are: my luck; my fate; my fortune. Chanel No.5, inevitable.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056
    boulay said:

    Someone mentioned the film Ad Astra on here the other day. I tried to watch it last night and all I could think was that it was an extended sci-fi version of that dreadful Brad Pitt Chanel No 5 ad he did a few years ago with his voice just dribbling out things that must have seemed profound to the writers with moody shots of him!

    Take out the words “Chanel No 5” from the below words from the advert and it could have been any line from the film….

    “It’s not a journey. Every journey ends, but we go on. The world turns and we turn with it. Plans disappear, dreams take over, but wherever I go, there you are: my luck; my fate; my fortune. Chanel No.5, inevitable.”
    Might have been me. Ad Astra was one of the worst films I've seen in years. It was acted so strangely, it was so flat and lifeless, with the only moment of interest being the completely out of nowhere space baboon.

    That is a great all about the advert and movie.
  • David Shukman
    @davidshukmanbbc
    ·
    1h
    So the line about phasing out ‘unabated’ coal (which is virtually all of it because there’s so little carbon capture) does survive in the latest #COP26 draft
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,898
    SKS fans please explain
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,267
    Tres said:

    No Annie Lennox? Bizarre.
    The Skids?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Farooq said:

    Good shout with the Eels. But then what's the joke with Aztec Camera? They really are Scottish, but not from there.
    I wodnered if it was something along the lines of a pun on "has to/the *****" but I can't think what the asterisked word or words might be!

    Lena Zavaroni came from Ro'say on Bute not Arran - but close enough.
  • For once I agree with malcolmg - THAT is the issue that will really wind up people in difficulty.
    I wish the government had kept the £20/week UC uplift in place and the funding to keep rough sleepers off the street. I was trying to find anything about IDS’s position on this. I got the impression that the treasury pared back his UC proposals and he wasn’t happy about it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    Carnyx said:

    Air in Ayrshire ...

    And Moray Eels. Presumably.
    Wigtown is Reg Dwight. Real name of famous hair piece wearer Elton John.
    It's all a bit cryptic.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,262
    Farooq said:

    Cast and Ash! Hahaha, ok, I'll stop looking for answers now, it's just someone being surreal.
    Where's Dolly Parton?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    Not always a good idea Malc to be so blunt in public about a leading lawyer.
    Nothing offensive there, his conduct is reprehensible to me , he can claim it is in the rules all he likes but it shows a lack of morals and principles in my opinion. He cannot possibly be performing the job the public pay him to do when he is based out of the country most of the time. No other employer would allow that, the supposed rules set for these public servants are non existent and allow them to do as they wish. Also as we know they are not allowed to carry out other employment from Westminster, if I was doing that in my employer's premises they would rightly sack me. MP's should have to attend and work all hours parliament is in session. They have an easy life of it and can pick and choose if they ever bother to turn up for work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    I wish the government had kept the £20/week UC uplift in place and the funding to keep rough sleepers off the street. I was trying to find anything about IDS’s position on this. I got the impression that the treasury pared back his UC proposals and he wasn’t happy about it.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/22/tory-peers-last-ditch-effort-reverse-universal-credit-cut

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10054155/Iain-Duncan-Smith-urges-PM-Universal-Credit-uplift.html

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,262
    edited November 2021
    Just been reading the Aspinall story in the Guardian. When I was a Trustee of a Citizens Advice Bureau we were not allowed to seek advice from our own advisors. And there was no question of money changing hands.
  • Bannon faces up to two years in prison for contempt.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    Tres said:

    No Annie Lennox? Bizarre.
    Simple Minds? Texas?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Charles said:

    Speaking in the commons is only a fraction of the work that MPs do, although @NickPalmer would know better than me
    And the band played believe it if you like. Methinks evidence shows us they are too busy earning dollups of cash in somewhat odd ways to be doing much MP type work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    Just been reading the Aspinall story in the Guardian. When I was a Trustee of a Citizens Advice Bureau we were not allowed to seek advice from our own advisors. And there was no question of money changing hands.

    I'm not surprised about the money, but the advice thing startles me a little - on reflection, it makes sense: no benefit of any type, in cash or kind, from the operation fo which one is a trustee.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    DavidL said:

    This would be the same man who made it clear that (unlike Salmond and other SNP MPs) he would only take one salary and sought to decline his MSP salary? And when he was told that that wasn't possible donated his entire MSP salary to local charities? That "creep"?

    David, you well know Salmond donated his to charity and declared it as well.
  • SKS fans please explain

    You mean that any other LOTO would be 20 points ahead by now? 😉
  • JSpringJSpring Posts: 102
    I will, if I may, bring up the name of Kevin Rudd. Many here will know him as a former Australian Prime Minister. He was elected as the leader of the Australian Labor Party because he was seen as an election winner, which is more or less the reason why Boris Johnson was elected leader of the Conservative Party in July 2019.

    What else do Rudd and Johnson have in common? They both enjoyed/enjoy little natural support within their respective parliamentary parties. Rudd was held up for several years by impressive polling figures. Once they started to turn sour, he was ousted as leader.

    Food for thought and all of that.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001
    kle4 said:

    Might have been me. Ad Astra was one of the worst films I've seen in years. It was acted so strangely, it was so flat and lifeless, with the only moment of interest being the completely out of nowhere space baboon.

    That is a great all about the advert and movie.
    I was at a bit of a loss as to how, when they had built such high tech moon bases and space ships, they didn’t have the tech to identify and destroy the bandits (who somehow also had the tech for a rogue moon base bizarrely) before they could drive after Brad and co and kill them!

    So on earth in Afghanistan they can use satellites and drones to watch over troops etc and destroy any threat but couldn’t on the moon which is even more sparsely populated and built up than Afghanistan in the film……
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited November 2021

    Yes indeed COP26 will achieve nothing - qu'elle surprise - so let's roll onto the next one!
    Is that the case?

    @NickPalmer who was ... y'know ... there described it as 'people generally see it as a glass half full'.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,929
    edited November 2021
    I think all this 'how can Boris possibly survive such polling?' stuff is rather over-egging it. The Tories' blood lust for ditching leaders is something of a myth: yes they famously ousted Maggie and (less famously) IDS, but all the other leaders were able to survive mid-term polling slumps. Boris will probably be okay.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    DavidL said:

    If he did I apologise but I have a vague recollection that the evidence that he followed through on this undertaking was incomplete to non existent, a bit like my MP's (Chris Law) promise to convert some of his castle into a day care facility for disabled children.
    From BBC in 2014
    When Mr Salmond was both an MP and MSP between 2007 and 2010, he donated one of his parliamentary salaries into the Mary Salmond Trust, which was named after his late mother.
    'Not retiring'

    It has so far distributed more than £92,000 to 239 groups and young people.

    and to boot..........

    Alex Salmond is to donate the annual pension he will receive after stepping down as Scottish first minister to good causes.

    The former SNP leader said that, for as long as he continues to be an MSP, the £42,501 sum would go into a trust.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    boulay said:

    I was at a bit of a loss as to how, when they had built such high tech moon bases and space ships, they didn’t have the tech to identify and destroy the bandits (who somehow also had the tech for a rogue moon base bizarrely) before they could drive after Brad and co and kill them!

    So on earth in Afghanistan they can use satellites and drones to watch over troops etc and destroy any threat but couldn’t on the moon which is even more sparsely populated and built up than Afghanistan in the film……
    Wing- or rotor-borne drones don't work very well on the moon. No atmosphere ... but by the same token satellite reconnaissance works even better (except when it is dark, though then IR would work superbly).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    Stocky said:

    The Skids?
    RunRig missing?

    Is there really an artiste called "Gordon Brown"?

    Trying to imagine what instrument he/she/it would play.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    Farooq said:

    If it's a choice between Dura Ace's coarse but funny posts, and those posters who pine for dictators, I choose Dura Ace.
    If it's a choice between Dura Ace's coarse but funny posts, and those posters who whose health policy is "let the feeble die", I choose Dura Ace.

    Though note he’s an avid admirer of papa Lenin.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081

    I think all this 'how can Boris possibly survive such polling?' stuff is rather over-egging it. The Tories' blood lust for ditching leaders is something of a myth: yes they famously ousted Maggie and (less famously) IDS, but all the other leaders were able to survive mid-term polling slumps. Boris will probably be okay.

    It's not just bad polling though.

    Screwing over your own MPs in a botched vote doesn't help.

    Inviting the press to examine every aspect of their lives doesn't help.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818

    I think all this 'how can Boris possibly survive such polling?' stuff is rather over-egging it. The Tories' blood lust for ditching leaders is something of a myth: yes they famously ousted Maggie and (less famously) IDS, but all the other leaders were able to survive mid-term polling slumps. Boris will probably be okay.

    Yes. Cameron was behind for the majority of his term in coalition. Often by a fair distance. I don't recall any serious effort to oust him.
    Then again, Dave had people skills.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Tory insiders have told @Alain_Tolhurst that Boris Johnson's future as leader might not be as safe as he hopes if sleaze keeps snowballing https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/tories-warn-boris-johnson-could-be-gone-by-summer-if-sleaze-mess-isnt-cleared-up-soon
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,262
    Carnyx said:

    I'm not surprised about the money, but the advice thing startles me a little - on reflection, it makes sense: no benefit of any type, in cash or kind, from the operation fo which one is a trustee.
    Clear, unambiguous. Don't recall any trustee even quoting for work either.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472
    Nigelb said:

    Though note he’s an avid admirer of papa Lenin.
    I admire strong and able leaders
    You like dictators
    He is a fascist/communist supporter
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    DavidL said:

    Sorry, you are going to have to explain that one (if you can be arsed).
    The home office trying to deport people in Glasgow, they claimed the large crowd that were on street supporting the poor souls from their thugs were "people smugglers" and not enraged citizens.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    MattW said:

    RunRig missing?

    Is there really an artiste called "Gordon Brown"?

    Trying to imagine what instrument he/she/it would play.
    Could it be a rather limp allusion to the Arctic Monkeys story?

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown-finally-admits-truth-11462790

    And BTW zero marks to the cartographer for omitting Orkney and Shetland.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,554

    Same as when BoJo stuck by the Prittster. Or Cummings. Or tried to defend Matt Handsy.

    Boris gets the thrill of being the one in charge who can do whatever he likes. He also cements his status as the Big Man who will protect his underlings... As long as they stay loyal. And for two years, Johnson has got away with this.

    Trouble was that this time, he didn't. (Though in the day of the vote, it looked like he had.)

    Question is- what was different this time?
    What was different was that they needed the co-operation of the opposition parties to set up an alternative. Stupidly, they did not get that in advance. So when the opposition said no, the whole plan fell apart.

    This did not apply with the other Ministers.
  • MattW said:

    Is that the case?

    @NickPalmer who was ... y'know ... there described it as 'people generally see it as a glass half full'.
    I am sure lots of people there at COP26 think that it will achieve something, but the economic realities, interests and pressures affecting many of the participating nations means that probably not much will change.
  • I’m going to make a guess that the swing back to Labour in the red wall is higher than elsewhere and possibly now not reversible as the Tories have lost their chance to appear different
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Carnyx said:

    The result is the same. Admin errors and claiming public moneys for double benefit. Charity is irrelevant. It's by definition his disposable income. And as I pointed out earlier, he (and others such as Mr Salmond)also get benefits independent of simply giving the income to charity, unless each is or has a punctilious accountant (which in fairness he may well be, come ot think of it).
    It is quite amazing the amount of Tories that have memory lapses on outside earnings, bit too regular an occurence to be random lapses.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    malcolmg said:

    From BBC in 2014
    When Mr Salmond was both an MP and MSP between 2007 and 2010, he donated one of his parliamentary salaries into the Mary Salmond Trust, which was named after his late mother.
    'Not retiring'

    It has so far distributed more than £92,000 to 239 groups and young people.

    and to boot..........

    Alex Salmond is to donate the annual pension he will receive after stepping down as Scottish first minister to good causes.

    The former SNP leader said that, for as long as he continues to be an MSP, the £42,501 sum would go into a trust.
    Ok, I accept that I was wrong about that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    For once I agree with malcolmg - THAT is the issue that will really wind up people in difficulty.
    The poor cannot imagine earning that much never mind forgetting they earned it on top of their £81K salary.
    How does anyone forget they earned almost £30K.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,267

    I’m going to make a guess that the swing back to Labour in the red wall is higher than elsewhere and possibly now not reversible as the Tories have lost their chance to appear different

    You may be right. Not sure.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737

    Maybe your last five words are part of the government's problem now? Apart from levelling-up (whatever that means) what is the government for? What is it trying to achieve for the rest of its time in power? So the policy vacuum is filled with other stuff, like sleaze.
    Aren't we due for another Macron tantrum?

    It's been at least a week since the last one.

    (Morning all)
  • Stocky said:

    You may be right. Not sure.
    Do we have any polling?

    Thanks for your kind comments recently Stocky. You are a good friend
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056
    dixiedean said:

    Yes. Cameron was behind for the majority of his term in coalition. Often by a fair distance. I don't recall any serious effort to oust him.
    Then again, Dave had people skills.
    I am interested to see if we'll reenter 'normal' politics with governments behind mid term, or if the last number of years have changed things such that, in future, being behind at such a stage will prove to be indicative of a problem.

    I do think Tories are not used to it now and so will panic a lot.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    DavidL said:

    Ok, I accept that I was wrong about that.
    Honourably done as well David.
  • Carnyx said:

    Could it be a rather limp allusion to the Arctic Monkeys story?

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown-finally-admits-truth-11462790

    And BTW zero marks to the cartographer for omitting Orkney and Shetland.
    Shetland
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,267
    malcolmg said:

    The poor cannot imagine earning that much never mind forgetting they earned it on top of their £81K salary.
    How does anyone forget they earned almost £30K.
    It is a massive disconnect that MPs think that £81k pa is not a lot of money versus normal people who think it is a vast income. What is median income at the moment, £24k, something, like that? I know people who think £24k pa is huge.
  • Stocky said:

    I'm feeling worried this morning. Johnson will look for something big to take focus in a different direction and I note that the Netherlands has just set a precedent for lockdowns again, thus giving cover in a way to other governments. It is worrying because when you look at the Dutch stats their deaths from Covid now are a small fraction of what they were in April 2020 and Jan 2021 yet have brought in these measures because of high infections. The effects of the vaccines (i.e. the weakening of the link between infection and illness) are not being recognised.
    We haven't started a war in a while.

    I hear Paris is nice at this time of the year.

    Could win back TSE that way.
  • https://twitter.com/bnhwalker/status/1459475900886622215

    Tory coalition is falling apart and so is the Tory lead
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216

    Yes, I agree, though once in two years is a bit extreme - I'd expect any MP to be interested in *something* and find an opportunity to raise it in public, as part of a wider effort. No sane person is interested in everything - in 13 years I never took part in a single debate on the fishing industry.

    If Cox were to say that he'd pursued issue X vigorously and had N meetings with interested groups and several meetings with Ministers, after which a useful amendment had been introduced by the Government, that'd be fine. But merely saying "I'm doing invisible stuff, trust me", is pushing your luck, and if it turns out you're partly doing it from the Virgin Islands, you're on thin ice in terms of public credibility.
    Well he could argues it counts as invisible earnings.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    Shetland
    Quite, and as MattW said Runrig are Awol (plenty of room on Skye).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818

    I’m going to make a guess that the swing back to Labour in the red wall is higher than elsewhere and possibly now not reversible as the Tories have lost their chance to appear different

    My guess is that the Red Wall, as a psephological monolith, does not actually exist.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    malcolmg said:

    The poor cannot imagine earning that much never mind forgetting they earned it on top of their £81K salary.
    How does anyone forget they earned almost £30K.
    Not least because he would have to declare it on his tax return, for one thing.
  • https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1459300671468052485

    Labour now in the position to tell the SNP to go away
  • dixiedean said:

    My guess is that the Red Wall, as a psephological monolith, does not actually exist.
    Hi mate how are you, thanks for your support of late
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,267

    Do we have any polling?

    Thanks for your kind comments recently Stocky. You are a good friend
    Not sure if you listen to the Red Box podcast but you should catch up with the last three or four months Focus Group episodes. One per month. They interview a random selection of floating voters, particularly regarding their views of Johnson and Starmer. They used to be run by Mattison.

    I listen to these every month and they have been clearly more pro-Johnson than pro-Starmer. The October edition was brutal for Starmer, the November edition slightly less so. The December edition will be very interesting ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Stocky said:

    It is a massive disconnect that MPs think that £81k pa is not a lot of money versus normal people who think it is a vast income. What is median income at the moment, £24k, something, like that? I know people who think £24k pa is huge.
    They are so out of touch with reality and as we see many of them hardly turn up to do the job as they are too busy being elsewhere earning even more. Sure there are plenty who are conscientious and put in the hours but there are some real roasters milking it who give them all such a bad name.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712
    edited November 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Yes, you can get in a tangle on here. One that sticks in my mind was a few months ago on the BAME topic and whether it applied to Ed Miliband. It was getting a right old pasting from people, as a term, and I posted against the grain, saying I personally found it ok as a word for non-white people in the UK, therefore not suitable for Ed, and that if we needed such a word, which we sometimes probably did, it seemed as good as any other I could think of. This triggered a volcanic intervention from one poster demanding of me "what, so Jews don't count then?" and many posts were then exchanged as I sought to show that my use and understanding of 'BAME' did not reveal an undercurrent of raging antisemitism. I emerged from this, bruised but just about intact, only for a different poster to open up another flank, telling me with quite some agency that Jews were BAME since they all originated from the Middle East. I bit back something flip about Woody Allen and Yasser Arafat and took stock. This was getting truly harrowing now. The casual little paddle I'd intended had become quite the epic voyage and I was absolutely spent. An exit was urgently needed. So I did the only thing I could (short of abruptly logging off, which should be kept for genuine emergencies), I did the 'anodyne closer'. I also made a firm resolution to avoid getting into such a situation on PB again, and by and large I haven't.
    Until now? :)
This discussion has been closed.