Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I have pointed out to you many times that the LD position on Rejoin is clear. I am not sure why you refuse to understand. Rejoin is the ultimate objective, but not at the next GE, though rejoining the SM and a number of other institutions will be.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I honestly think the rejoin boat has sailed. It might come back, but not now.
The easy fix is obvious. Rejoin the EEA and do a customs deal. We are fully aligned with the EEA already, we have an increasing cost on business we can remove with a bonfire of red tape, we can even spin it as the EU agreeing to OUR standards.
Ultras will hate it but they're in the minority. TBH I think A16 will get triggered, there will be a rapid escalation until everyone is staring down the barrel of a nasty trade war. Then the newspapers will do some digging and find out that we're arguing for the right to have babies even though we can't have babies and conclude it isn't worth it. Trade wars always have to end with the pieces picked up from where they were dropped - so why bother.
A period of calm coexisting where people then realise we have no say will be the gentle catalyst towards rejoin, but I would be amazed if we did.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Yes, but his stuff was all declared and it's clear what he was up to for the money. Failings to declare or utter non entities getting big cash with no clear non shady reason to justify it are another level.
That said people predicting the political demise of Boris De Pfeffel are jumping the gun methinks...
It looks bad but the thing about charmers is they charm their way out of things. How many people have said “Never again, I hate them!” about an unfaithful partner, but been wooed back by the gift of the gab?
The fact he is a 57 yr old divorcee, with numerous children from affairs, who has a 32 yr old, pregnant wife is fuel for his haters and also a reason to see a comeback as possible
Incidentally the poll in the Express shows the problem with referendums. They are decided by many unengaged voters not on their merits, but by a desire to give the government a kicking*, and boy is this government asking for it.
*applies to the desire to kick the SNP government too .
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Not actively stealing from us though, which is a bonus
He seems a bit worried, anyway. The gates at the top of his drive down here are closed which I haven't seen before
His dreams invaded by torch and pitchfork wielding mobs presumably.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
Rejoining will only work if and when the country as a whole want it to work. One of the reasons this has continued to be such a mess is the fissure running down the country. In addition, if we were to half-heartedly rejoin, what are the odds that we’d flip around yet again and demand another exit?
A revolving door membership suits no-one.
To get people to want to rejoin and to have that widely spread and settled would require showing that closer alignment (Single Market first, and then actively wanting to be part of more and more programmes) would work and be beneficial and wanted.
So - working for closer alignment and getting to demonstrate that it is desirable for all (or, conversely, prove that it isn’t) is the best way to have a genuine and lasting Rejoin - without sowing the seeds for yet another Brexit. Learning the lessons from the past few years where both sides poisoned the discourse with their own haste, intolerance, and failure to consider the crucial question of: “then what?”
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
47% wanting still to have left the EU is 13% more than the Tories 34% rating with Comres last night.
That actually suggests that a number of Leavers have switched to Labour given the Tories + RefUK combined are under 40% with Comres
Yes, I wonder if that's because Starmer's "Make Brexit Work" slogan, combined with repeated assertions that they won't try to rejoin, has made at least some leavers stop seeing Labour as a threat to Brexit.
Well that's an impartial source citing opinions as facts.
The spin that Humza put on the Care Inspectorate report was extraordinary. He claimed vindication but what the Inspectorate said was that they found no evidence of racism at all. What they did find was that some of the paperwork by the nursery could have been clearer and they gave them a period of time in which to improve that. The improvements were related to data being recorded so that they could vouch and demonstrate their equality principles. There has been a lot of support locally for the nursery.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
That said people predicting the political demise of Boris De Pfeffel are jumping the gun methinks...
It looks bad but the thing about charmers is they charm their way out of things. How many people have said “Never again, I hate them!” about an unfaithful partner, but been wooed back by the gift of the gab?
Indeed! I still don' think "sleaze" will count for much at all at the election personally.
I'm still still saying Conservative majority 30-40 seats in October 2023 election. Boris goes in 2025/2026. Labour wins in small majority in 2028.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I'm a LD and a remainer and I don't think there is obfuscation. Rejoining is not on the cards for sometime. It isn't practical. I would like to see closer relationships so as to simplify bureaucracy, but we aren't rejoining in the short term.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
47% wanting still to have left the EU is 13% more than the Tories 34% rating with Comres last night.
That actually suggests that a number of Leavers have switched to Labour given the Tories + RefUK combined are under 40% with Comres
Yes, I wonder if that's because Starmer's "Make Brexit Work" slogan, combined with repeated assertions that they won't try to rejoin, has made at least some leavers stop seeing Labour as a threat to Brexit.
Incidentally the poll in the Express shows the problem with referendums. They are decided by many unengaged voters not on their merits, but by a desire to give the government a kicking*, and boy is this government asking for it.
*applies to the desire to kick the SNP government too .
I think that's true if you hold them very rarely, at the government's discretion. But if they're a part of the machinery of government, as in many of the western United States or Switzerland, I don't think it is true. People mostly take it seriously when they are part of the government.
If you lived forever surely you’d end up longing for an end to it ?
Don't think so. I'm just as interested at 71 as I was when I was 17. Why should that diminish when I'm 710?
What about at 710,000,000,000? Forever’s a bloody long time. When the seas and rivers have dried up, when the mountains have crumbled into dust, when the universe is darkened, and the time elapsed since your birth is not even one tick of the clock of eternity and the first million years have merged together in a glob of indistinct memories inseparable from the nest million, and the next million, and the next million… and you still have forever to come… what about then?
A longer (healthy and active) life - oh, yes. Numenorean-style, at least. Forever? Not for me.
That said people predicting the political demise of Boris De Pfeffel are jumping the gun methinks...
And it’s not at all clear that replacing Boris de Pfelffel at the top would make a Conservative government more likely to serve the citizens of the country. The Conservative Party thrives on cash for Honours, and many of its MPs are cool with paid lobbying and seem not to mind one bit that its present leader signed the Northern Ireland protocol in bad faith. If they had a new leader, (s)he’d be elected by the same bodies as elected Johnson (despite his having broken the Ministerial Code after he resigned as Foreign Secretary).
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Yes, but his stuff was all declared and it's clear what he was up to for the money. Failings to declare or utter non entities getting big cash with no clear non shady reason to justify it are another level.
We know that Cox declared everything - you are missing the point. The image is the Tory pig with its snout in the trough eating money. Someone who is still paid as an MP but has essentially retired (1 contribution in the Commons in 18 months) and earns unfathomable amounts on top in a luxury Caribbean paradise just winds people up.
He is a totem that sells newspapers and keeps fuelling their longer harder investigations through the really murky waters to the genuinely Bad Stuff.
That said people predicting the political demise of Boris De Pfeffel are jumping the gun methinks...
The mechanism is rather against change. As it triggers at 15% it is likely to be too early for a no-confidence motion to be carried. I presume though that anyone thinking of sending in a letter will generally hold off in part because of that.
My hunch is that enough will hold off so as not to trigger a vonc, as all it'd likely achieve is more bad headlines and probably worse polling. Additionally Boris would then be safe for another 12m.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
We will rejoin in about ten years after which nobody will ever speak of Brexit again.
Might take a bit longer, though the destination looks pretty clear. The generational profile of votes was obvious in 2016 and there in embryo in 1975.
However, it's not really about people being persuaded. Some of the swing is non voters expressing an opinion, and I wouldn't want to rely on them. The rest is age profiles. It's not nice to talk about, but Leave voters are going to that place where referendums cease and being replaced by younger people who suckled at the evil teat of EU propoganda.
Tip to those who see Brexit as their entry in the history books. If you try to make Brejoin difficult, it probably won't work and will really hack off future generations.
The question here is whether Brexit is like politics, in which people on average mysteriously move to the right in each generation as they get older, or more like sexual tolerance, which persists once it takes hold (e.g. almost nobody of any generation now admits to disapproving of gay people). I suspect it depends partly on economic performance. If Britain struggles and the EU is seen as doing OK, it will lead us back in the long run.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I have pointed out to you many times that the LD position on Rejoin is clear. I am not sure why you refuse to understand. Rejoin is the ultimate objective, but not at the next GE, though rejoining the SM and a number of other institutions will be.
Yes, agree. the LD position as laid out - in writing as per your link - is transparent and honest as far as it goes.
But "demonstrating the benefits to UK citizens and businesses of a much closer relationship" does not address some key things, including controlling the extent of sovereignty leak and the influence on the direction towards a super-state, immigration inequalities, the cost of rejoining, what about our rebate?. Would we have to abandon our currency? I know this is not true of many Lib Dems, but it sounds like the Libdems as a party has a wish to re-join at any cost.
When these weighty matters are considered, even cursorily, re-joining the EU within the next 50 years is a very long shot in my view.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
I'd love to see posters like Eadric and LadyG come back. Anyone seen them?
I do agree though - several people who are almost painfully missing were good value. Has OGH et al reached out to try and entice some of them back?
Would someone enlighten me if, when the 1922 committee receives the required amount of letters, it’s an automatic/binding leadership challenge or is it optional?
Would love to know how many letters they have requesting Boris go!
Thanks in advance.
There is no such thing as a leadership challenge under Conservative party rules anymore since the Hague reforms.
Only a no confidence ballot can be held if sufficient MPs submit letters, as with IDS and if the leader gets more than 50% support they survive, if less they don't.
However that actually benefits the leader a bit more, even Thatcher would have survived in 1990 as she got 54% of Tory MPs backing her over Heseltine on the first ballot. IDS was toppled in 2003 but even he got 45% still in that no confidence vote and Boris would surely do better than that given Redwall MPs owed him their seats in 2019.
My guess is unless Labour are 10%+ ahead consistently in polls over the next 6 months, Boris will survive. If Labour do get that big a lead though Boris will go and Sunak would replace him being the only Conservative alternative who might claw back some votes lost to Labour
That's a good analysis. Say what you like about HYUFD's personal political views, he has a clear eye and he's honest and polite. It'd be interesting to see a header by him sometimes.
If you lived forever surely you’d end up longing for an end to it ?
Don't think so. I'm just as interested at 71 as I was when I was 17. Why should that diminish when I'm 710?
What about at 710,000,000,000? Forever’s a bloody long time. When the seas and rivers have dried up, when the mountains have crumbled into dust, when the universe is darkened, and the time elapsed since your birth is not even one tick of the clock of eternity and the first million years have merged together in a glob of indistinct memories inseparable from the nest million, and the next million, and the next million… and you still have forever to come… what about then?
A longer (healthy and active) life - oh, yes. Numenorean-style, at least. Forever? Not for me.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Agree. As you say not actually driven off. The opinions posted here are across the spectrum, but none of us get a free ride if we post unpleasant stuff unless it is done tongue in cheek.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
47% wanting still to have left the EU is 13% more than the Tories 34% rating with Comres last night.
That actually suggests that a number of Leavers have switched to Labour given the Tories + RefUK combined are under 40% with Comres
Yes, I wonder if that's because Starmer's "Make Brexit Work" slogan, combined with repeated assertions that they won't try to rejoin, has made at least some leavers stop seeing Labour as a threat to Brexit.
Yes, but will that alienate younger people ?
Not if they accept that, in practice, we're not going back in anytime soon.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
Rejoining will only work if and when the country as a whole want it to work. One of the reasons this has continued to be such a mess is the fissure running down the country. In addition, if we were to half-heartedly rejoin, what are the odds that we’d flip around yet again and demand another exit?
A revolving door membership suits no-one.
To get people to want to rejoin and to have that widely spread and settled would require showing that closer alignment (Single Market first, and then actively wanting to be part of more and more programmes) would work and be beneficial and wanted.
So - working for closer alignment and getting to demonstrate that it is desirable for all (or, conversely, prove that it isn’t) is the best way to have a genuine and lasting Rejoin - without sowing the seeds for yet another Brexit. Learning the lessons from the past few years where both sides poisoned the discourse with their own haste, intolerance, and failure to consider the crucial question of: “then what?”
Spot on. Rejoining in the short term is almost as silly as an idea as a no deal Brexit was. Perhaps in 15-20 years, if a consistent clear majority are in favour and the EU structures are working well, but in the short term anyone who wants a closer relationship with the EU should be focused on alignment and being good neighbours who can work constructively together, not rejoin.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I honestly think the rejoin boat has sailed. It might come back, but not now.
The easy fix is obvious. Rejoin the EEA and do a customs deal. We are fully aligned with the EEA already, we have an increasing cost on business we can remove with a bonfire of red tape, we can even spin it as the EU agreeing to OUR standards.
Ultras will hate it but they're in the minority. TBH I think A16 will get triggered, there will be a rapid escalation until everyone is staring down the barrel of a nasty trade war. Then the newspapers will do some digging and find out that we're arguing for the right to have babies even though we can't have babies and conclude it isn't worth it. Trade wars always have to end with the pieces picked up from where they were dropped - so why bother.
A period of calm coexisting where people then realise we have no say will be the gentle catalyst towards rejoin, but I would be amazed if we did.
I expect a closer relationship with the EU will materialise in time, and I really do support it, but I do not support rejoining
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
tbh if this site manages to drive away a few extreme posters and hang onto the moderate, sensible ones, we've achieved a rare thing on the internet, that many other discussion sites can only wish for,
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
47% wanting still to have left the EU is 13% more than the Tories 34% rating with Comres last night.
That actually suggests that a number of Leavers have switched to Labour given the Tories + RefUK combined are under 40% with Comres
Yes, I wonder if that's because Starmer's "Make Brexit Work" slogan, combined with repeated assertions that they won't try to rejoin, has made at least some leavers stop seeing Labour as a threat to Brexit.
Yes, but will that alienate younger people ?
Not if they accept that, in practice, we're not going back in anytime soon.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
Dura is interesting when speaking about army hardware but that’s it. Apart from that it’s worthless ranting. He’s a classic keyboard warrior. His post at 6.42 is exactly who he is as a person. An unpleasant pub bore type using dramatic language for effect and to get noticed. Malcolmg is Malcolmg. Intolerant of some, but can be alright. I just wish he’d tone it down.
I wouldn’t personally join any pile on to drive anyone off. That’s cheap.
Francis urquhart hasn’t been here for a while.
Isn't the definition of a 'keyboard warrior' someone who would say something online that they wouldn't say to someone's face?
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I hope that @Casino_Royale returns soon. The risk of his taking offense at some innocent comment of mine and calling me a total moron added an extra frisson to participation on this forum. I think he was taking up a new and more senior job which has perhaps precluded him from posting, hopefully temporarily.
Since his last job was for Crossrail, I just assumed he'd been held up somewhere.
There's a bit of a "silly season" vibe to politics going on.
Not making light of the sleaze stuff at all, and Boris has been very silly and made a bad situation much worse.
But after the last few years of intense politics this little of policy rather than personal issues being debated at the moment.
For most policy issues we seem in a bit of an interregnum.
Covid is going ok and we're ready for the winter and will see what happens there. Brexit we are waiting to see what happens when Article 16 is invoked. COP26 is ongoing but nobody credible is going to argue that climate change isn't real, or that Britain isn't already doing what needs to be done and it's really the USA and China etc that will matter there.
After perpetually having years of Covid or Brexit to debate, there's not much happening now policy wise.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
In what way did he show contempt for the rules? His high earnings have never been a secret, indeed he resigned from a government committee years ago, before he became AG, because of his declared outside earnings.
Interesting poll - is this the first we’ve seen with a significant swing to Labour, as opposed to previous Tories sitting on their hands?
Of course, at any other time this sort of poll would be normal for mid-term, but the last few years have destroyed a lot of long-standing precedent.
What it does show, is that the government need to get back on top of the narrative, as the pandemic ends and we get back to ‘politics as usual’. It’s clear that the media are now going for MP conduct in a big way, and they have a lot of stories stored up and ready to print.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
He is an absolute roaster , greedy grasping useless tosser. A grifter extraordinaire , lacking any principles morals or milk of human kindness.
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Yes, but his stuff was all declared and it's clear what he was up to for the money. Failings to declare or utter non entities getting big cash with no clear non shady reason to justify it are another level.
We know that Cox declared everything - you are missing the point. The image is the Tory pig with its snout in the trough eating money. Someone who is still paid as an MP but has essentially retired (1 contribution in the Commons in 18 months) and earns unfathomable amounts on top in a luxury Caribbean paradise just winds people up.
He is a totem that sells newspapers and keeps fuelling their longer harder investigations through the really murky waters to the genuinely Bad Stuff.
I'm not missing the point at all - I know the point is he looks like a greedy part time MP and that's why it gets focus and fuels continued focus on others and, hopefully, reveals some genuinely bad stuff.
My point is the distinction between the various instances still needs to be made, so we dont treat MPs who fail to declare the purchase of a pack of paper clips the same as someone claiming for a duck island. Despite you saying people know he declared it people are acting as though it's a revelation of standards wrongdoing akin to corrupt practice.
I'd rather not have such a part time MP, and I want very high standards of conduct as well, and would judge my MP on both, but they are separate issues.
And because I want to be reasonable to all MPs I dont want to act like all sins are equal and imply all matters are equally sleazy.
Being lazy and greedy is worth knowing, if that's the charge, but seems a localised concern for constituents.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
In what way did he show contempt for the rules? His high earnings have never been a secret, indeed he resigned from a government committee years ago, before he became AG, because of his declared outside earnings.
Not doing his job as an MP? It is within the rules as the role is poorly defined and the chief whip said yes go and live in the Caribbean, but really? Who thinks that was fine?
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
It is an honest opinion as I read through most early morning posts
Off topic (sorry) but on the issue of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and the linking of the 400m debt to Iran is there the possibility that the UK govt pays the funds into escrow with the UN on the basis that when sanctions etc allow the UN will release the funds to Iran.
This would then remove it as an issue as the UK govt can say “see, we want to pay it but technically cannot give it to you but when you sort out your issues you get it” and so it takes away a stick for Iran to beat the UK with in the eyes of the world….
Or alternatively the UK could buy Iran 400m of vaccines and have them delivered as surely the Iranian govt would love to use the money to help their people and not use it for nefarious means….!!
Do you trust the UN not to release it immediately and say “oops sorry?”
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
The scandal on our hands is not best thought of as a lobbying scandal. What is scandalous is that the Prime Minister used his power (via his Party’s whips) in an attempt (a) to overrule the advice of Parliaments’ Committee on Standards, and (b) to set up a Committee chaired by a Conservative of the PM's choice to do the work of that Parliamentary Committee. What we learn about Geoffrey Cox and others illustrates that, even outside the Cabinet, there are Tory MPs temperamentally akin to the Prime Minister so far as the workings of democracy are concerned.
Interesting poll - is this the first we’ve seen with a significant swing to Labour, as opposed to previous Tories sitting on their hands?
Of course, at any other time this sort of poll would be normal for mid-term, but the last few years have destroyed a lot of long-standing precedent.
What it does show, is that the government need to get back on top of the narrative, as the pandemic ends and we get back to ‘politics as usual’. It’s clear that the media are now going for MP conduct in a big way, and they have a lot of stories stored up and ready to print.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
He is an absolute roaster , greedy grasping useless tosser. A grifter extraordinaire , lacking any principles morals or milk of human kindness.
Not always a good idea Malc to be so blunt in public about a leading lawyer.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
47% wanting still to have left the EU is 13% more than the Tories 34% rating with Comres last night.
That actually suggests that a number of Leavers have switched to Labour given the Tories + RefUK combined are under 40% with Comres
Yes, I wonder if that's because Starmer's "Make Brexit Work" slogan, combined with repeated assertions that they won't try to rejoin, has made at least some leavers stop seeing Labour as a threat to Brexit.
Yes, but will that alienate younger people ?
Indeed, if the Greens come out for RejoinEU or Rejoin SM+ then the seepage from Labour of the young could become quite a torrent.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
We're up and about, getting things done (well, sitting posting here, which is half way there) while the leavers are still asleep or hungover....
There's a bit of a "silly season" vibe to politics going on.
Not making light of the sleaze stuff at all, and Boris has been very silly and made a bad situation much worse.
But after the last few years of intense politics this little of policy rather than personal issues being debated at the moment.
For most policy issues we seem in a bit of an interregnum.
Covid is going ok and we're ready for the winter and will see what happens there. Brexit we are waiting to see what happens when Article 16 is invoked. COP26 is ongoing but nobody credible is going to argue that climate change isn't real, or that Britain isn't already doing what needs to be done and it's really the USA and China etc that will matter there.
After perpetually having years of Covid or Brexit to debate, there's not much happening now policy wise.
I'm feeling worried this morning. Johnson will look for something big to take focus in a different direction and I note that the Netherlands has just set a precedent for lockdowns again, thus giving cover in a way to other governments. It is worrying because when you look at the Dutch stats their deaths from Covid now are a small fraction of what they were in April 2020 and Jan 2021 yet have brought in these measures because of high infections. The effects of the vaccines (i.e. the weakening of the link between infection and illness) are not being recognised.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I hope that @Casino_Royale returns soon. The risk of his taking offense at some innocent comment of mine and calling me a total moron added an extra frisson to participation on this forum. I think he was taking up a new and more senior job which has perhaps precluded him from posting, hopefully temporarily.
Wasn’t it said that Mr Royale had taken up a new job that preluded posting here?
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
It is an honest opinion as I read through most early morning posts
It is not some big conspiracy, perhaps those of us up early are more of a like mindset, but so what? I think the early morning posts are the best, and the Brexiteer voices we do get at that time like Sandpit and rcs are the best of the Brexiteer voices. For me, after about 7pm unless there is a breaking story, pb is less interesting than earlier in the day.
Interesting poll - is this the first we’ve seen with a significant swing to Labour, as opposed to previous Tories sitting on their hands?
Of course, at any other time this sort of poll would be normal for mid-term, but the last few years have destroyed a lot of long-standing precedent.
What it does show, is that the government need to get back on top of the narrative, as the pandemic ends and we get back to ‘politics as usual’. It’s clear that the media are now going for MP conduct in a big way, and they have a lot of stories stored up and ready to print.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
He is an absolute roaster , greedy grasping useless tosser. A grifter extraordinaire , lacking any principles morals or milk of human kindness.
The milk of human kindness hasn't been all its cracked up to be since homogenisation and pasteurization killed off the heart of it.
Right, before people pile on, can I make it clear that Dom Cummings is a) a mendacious idiot, not to be believed, and b) out for revenge. But nevertheless, I found this interesting:
It sounds vaguely believable, doesn't it? The 'trolley' got bored quickly once Brexit was done, needed more money, and wanted to write about Shakespeare - i.e. earn more money. If, and it's a big if, anybody more trustworthy than Dom could corroborate that Boris missed early Covid Cobra meetings in Feb 2020 because he was writing at Chevening, that may be rather damaging.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I honestly think the rejoin boat has sailed. It might come back, but not now.
The easy fix is obvious. Rejoin the EEA and do a customs deal. We are fully aligned with the EEA already, we have an increasing cost on business we can remove with a bonfire of red tape, we can even spin it as the EU agreeing to OUR standards.
Ultras will hate it but they're in the minority. TBH I think A16 will get triggered, there will be a rapid escalation until everyone is staring down the barrel of a nasty trade war. Then the newspapers will do some digging and find out that we're arguing for the right to have babies even though we can't have babies and conclude it isn't worth it. Trade wars always have to end with the pieces picked up from where they were dropped - so why bother.
A period of calm coexisting where people then realise we have no say will be the gentle catalyst towards rejoin, but I would be amazed if we did.
We’re not appropriate for the EEA we are the 5/6 largest economy in the world.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Very eloquent description of the utterly monstrous greedy grasping horror.
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
They wanted to get rid of the Standards woman, presumably to replace her with their puppet. Hubris.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
In what way did he show contempt for the rules? His high earnings have never been a secret, indeed he resigned from a government committee years ago, before he became AG, because of his declared outside earnings.
The expenses scandal was similarly a mix of outrage at people breaking the rules and outrage at what people could get away with within the rules. In fact, in many ways voters were more angry at the latter, since it spoke to a whole system that was rotten, not simply a few "bad apples" acting outside the system's rules. Political and constitutional obsessives like us can point to the distinction between Cox's behaviour and Paterson's, but in doing so I think we may be missing the wood for the trees. To most voters, right or wrong matters more than allowed or not allowed.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
Rejoining will only work if and when the country as a whole want it to work. One of the reasons this has continued to be such a mess is the fissure running down the country. In addition, if we were to half-heartedly rejoin, what are the odds that we’d flip around yet again and demand another exit?
A revolving door membership suits no-one.
To get people to want to rejoin and to have that widely spread and settled would require showing that closer alignment (Single Market first, and then actively wanting to be part of more and more programmes) would work and be beneficial and wanted.
So - working for closer alignment and getting to demonstrate that it is desirable for all (or, conversely, prove that it isn’t) is the best way to have a genuine and lasting Rejoin - without sowing the seeds for yet another Brexit. Learning the lessons from the past few years where both sides poisoned the discourse with their own haste, intolerance, and failure to consider the crucial question of: “then what?”
Spot on. Rejoining in the short term is almost as silly as an idea as a no deal Brexit was. Perhaps in 15-20 years, if a consistent clear majority are in favour and the EU structures are working well, but in the short term anyone who wants a closer relationship with the EU should be focused on alignment and being good neighbours who can work constructively together, not rejoin.
Yes, and that is broadly the LD policy, with Labour coming out in even more dilute form.
I’d missed this chicken feed good shit first time around. That supercilious smirk is something to behold, gratifyingly it seems to have been wiped off BJ’s increasingly debauched puss lately.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
It is an honest opinion as I read through most early morning posts
An interesting thought.....can you think of a single poster who has changed their mind more times than you?
That is frightening. Not particularly for us in the short term, but because some people here will start to ask whether elections have been/can be 'fixed'.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
It is an honest opinion as I read through most early morning posts
An interesting thought.....can you think of a single poster who has changed their mind more times than you?
It is far better to have an open mind than your closed one
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
Its unsurprising, and theres nothing wrong with having disapproval of his conduct even if within the rules. Many things permissible are not preferred or advisable. I just wish there was categorisation and not some broad 'sleaze' term which is a handy media term but helps the rotten eggs camouflage themselves amid more mundane or sexier claims.
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
Same as when BoJo stuck by the Prittster. Or Cummings. Or tried to defend Matt Handsy.
Boris gets the thrill of being the one in charge who can do whatever he likes. He also cements his status as the Big Man who will protect his underlings... As long as they stay loyal. And for two years, Johnson has got away with this.
Trouble was that this time, he didn't. (Though in the day of the vote, it looked like he had.)
Yes, his work as a referee certainly hasn't been a secret. It simply appears he hasn't been registering it properly. Now don't get me wrong, he should have been and he deserves a rap across the knuckles for not doing so. But it's hardly a hanging offence.
Just another bent as a three bob bit Tory who only remembers they earned £30K on the side when it appears in the newspapers. These are the creeps that voted to take £20 quid a week off people who were getting £75 a week saying they could work 2 hours a week and make it up. How do these evil gits sleep at night.
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
They wanted to get rid of the Standards woman, presumably to replace her with their puppet. Hubris.
Maybe, but it's the tin ear to the likely public view that is truly astonishing. I feel for the Tory MPs who reluctantly followed the whip - how they will now be wishing they hadn't.
Off topic (sorry) but on the issue of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and the linking of the 400m debt to Iran is there the possibility that the UK govt pays the funds into escrow with the UN on the basis that when sanctions etc allow the UN will release the funds to Iran.
This would then remove it as an issue as the UK govt can say “see, we want to pay it but technically cannot give it to you but when you sort out your issues you get it” and so it takes away a stick for Iran to beat the UK with in the eyes of the world….
Or alternatively the UK could buy Iran 400m of vaccines and have them delivered as surely the Iranian govt would love to use the money to help their people and not use it for nefarious means….!!
Do you trust the UN not to release it immediately and say “oops sorry?”
I would hope that the legal terms of the “escrow” would bind in the bank that was holding the funds that they could only release the funds once specific agreed terms were met and that the bank would have to be a major institution that isn’t going to risk their licences if they broke the terms.
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
It is an honest opinion as I read through most early morning posts
An interesting thought.....can you think of a single poster who has changed their mind more times than you?
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Yes, but his stuff was all declared and it's clear what he was up to for the money. Failings to declare or utter non entities getting big cash with no clear non shady reason to justify it are another level.
We know that Cox declared everything - you are missing the point. The image is the Tory pig with its snout in the trough eating money. Someone who is still paid as an MP but has essentially retired (1 contribution in the Commons in 18 months) and earns unfathomable amounts on top in a luxury Caribbean paradise just winds people up.
He is a totem that sells newspapers and keeps fuelling their longer harder investigations through the really murky waters to the genuinely Bad Stuff.
Speaking in the commons is only a fraction of the work that MPs do, although @NickPalmer would know better than me
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
In what way did he show contempt for the rules? His high earnings have never been a secret, indeed he resigned from a government committee years ago, before he became AG, because of his declared outside earnings.
Not doing his job as an MP? It is within the rules as the role is poorly defined and the chief whip said yes go and live in the Caribbean, but really? Who thinks that was fine?
It would be interesting to get @MarqueeMark 's view on all of this. I bet he knows Cox.
Yes, his work as a referee certainly hasn't been a secret. It simply appears he hasn't been registering it properly. Now don't get me wrong, he should have been and he deserves a rap across the knuckles for not doing so. But it's hardly a hanging offence.
Just another bent as a three bob bit Tory who only remembers they earned £30K on the side when it appears in the newspapers. These are the creeps that voted to take £20 quid a week off people who were getting £75 a week saying they could work 2 hours a week and make it up. How do these evil gits sleep at night.
This would be the same man who made it clear that (unlike Salmond and other SNP MPs) he would only take one salary and sought to decline his MSP salary? And when he was told that that wasn't possible donated his entire MSP salary to local charities? That "creep"?
Good morning everybody. Quite a pleasant morning, weather-wise.
From his post earlier today, it seems Dura Ace has been fraternising with Malc! Mr A is often abusive but his 6.42 post does seem a bit rich, even for him.
Is use of that sort of language why some posters have recently reduced their activity?
Good morning
We have seen the loss of several posters recently and it may be to do with the unrelenting anti HMG threads, but to be honest Boris and others have opened the door wide with his and their idiotic actions
As far as @Dura_Ace comments are concerned they do not contribute to the discussions but like @malcolmg are designed to be provocative and are best ignored
Who has been driven away? It is not always easy to spot someone who isn't posting so that is a genuine question.
I note that @Casino_Royale hasn't been around and is missed. Any know if he is ok?
SquareRoot was driven off and I played my part in that, but he deserved the responses he got here because his posts were so unpleasant, content free and with no humour to compensate.
I am not sure that any poster deserves to be driven off, unless they become personally abusive
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
Intriguing that you pick up on morning posters as EU-LD types talking to themselves, I had merely considered us insightful and thoughtful.......it is in the evening, perhaps beverage related, when this place, still only at times, pick ups the more of Twitter vibes of being aggressive and childish.
It is an honest opinion as I read through most early morning posts
It is not some big conspiracy, perhaps those of us up early are more of a like mindset, but so what? I think the early morning posts are the best, and the Brexiteer voices we do get at that time like Sandpit and rcs are the best of the Brexiteer voices. For me, after about 7pm unless there is a breaking story, pb is less interesting than earlier in the day.
I am not suggesting for one minute it is a conspiracy, just many posters of a like mind reassuring each other maybe
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Great post.
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
Paterson showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man and broke them. Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
In what was did Cox show contempt for the rules? He played to the line, possibly, but didn’t break any
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
Same as when BoJo stuck by the Prittster. Or Cummings. Or tried to defend Matt Handsy.
Boris gets the thrill of being the one in charge who can do whatever he likes. He also cements his status as the Big Man who will protect his underlings... As long as they stay loyal. And for two years, Johnson has got away with this.
Trouble was that this time, he didn't. (Though in the day of the vote, it looked like he had.)
Question is- what was different this time?
The difference this time was he pissed off a lot of his own MPs by making them complicit in the act, marshalling the forces of parliament, and then abandoned them just as quickly.
All of them and much of the public can get behind standing by your advisers or ministers, especially when the opposition are baying for blood.
But Paterson was a wrong un, not useful in government anymore and a cross party group judged him - in such matters you defend them in the process but at that point you cut them loose (and back him if there was a by election). You don't embarrass your MPs like this instead.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Yes, but his stuff was all declared and it's clear what he was up to for the money. Failings to declare or utter non entities getting big cash with no clear non shady reason to justify it are another level.
We know that Cox declared everything - you are missing the point. The image is the Tory pig with its snout in the trough eating money. Someone who is still paid as an MP but has essentially retired (1 contribution in the Commons in 18 months) and earns unfathomable amounts on top in a luxury Caribbean paradise just winds people up.
He is a totem that sells newspapers and keeps fuelling their longer harder investigations through the really murky waters to the genuinely Bad Stuff.
I'm not missing the point at all - I know the point is he looks like a greedy part time MP and that's why it gets focus and fuels continued focus on others and, hopefully, reveals some genuinely bad stuff.
My point is the distinction between the various instances still needs to be made, so we dont treat MPs who fail to declare the purchase of a pack of paper clips the same as someone claiming for a duck island. Despite you saying people know he declared it people are acting as though it's a revelation of standards wrongdoing akin to corrupt practice.
I'd rather not have such a part time MP, and I want very high standards of conduct as well, and would judge my MP on both, but they are separate issues.
And because I want to be reasonable to all MPs I dont want to act like all sins are equal and imply all matters are equally sleazy.
Being lazy and greedy is worth knowing, if that's the charge, but seems a localised concern for constituents.
I think part of the reason for the focus on Cox is because it's very easy journalism. His interests were all declared in the Register; all it took was somebody to publicise the fact that he was earning the money partly by working in the BVI.
The more important stories, involving paid advocacy and corruption, take much more research to make sure that the facts are right. There's a whole load of them swirling around, but they won't get much publicity until journalists, or the Labour Party, are pretty sure of their ground. I expect a drip-drip of such stories and/or allegations to keep coming until at least Xmas, so the issue won't go away. In the longer term, I expect the National Audit Office among others to be asking serious questions about Covid money. Not just contracts for mates, but also widespread abuse of furlough, business loans and so on.
Cox is just for starters, I think. Paterson was the appetiser.
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
Same as when BoJo stuck by the Prittster. Or Cummings. Or tried to defend Matt Handsy.
Boris gets the thrill of being the one in charge who can do whatever he likes. He also cements his status as the Big Man who will protect his underlings... As long as they stay loyal. And for two years, Johnson has got away with this.
Trouble was that this time, he didn't. (Though in the day of the vote, it looked like he had.)
Question is- what was different this time?
The difference this time was he pissed off a lot of his own MPs by making them complicit in the act, marshalling the forces of parliament, and then abandoned them just as quickly.
All of them and much of the public can get behind standing by your advisers or ministers, especially when the opposition are baying for blood.
But Paterson was a wrong un, not useful in government anymore and a cross party group judged him - in such matters you defend them in the process but at that point you cut them loose (and back him if there was a by election). You don't embarrass your MPs like this instead.
And you can't ignore or brush off scrutiny and criticism when you're PM, like he did in all his previous roles. I am sure he genuinely thought that if the whips could land the vote (which took a lot of threats and arm-twisting, by the sound of it), that would be the end of it.
An interesting follow-on question is how he's going to cope (and react) when(/if) he becomes extremely unpopular? Some politicians thrive on it, others cope. But he's not really been in that position before, and his psychological make-up suggests he is going to struggle.
💰 After two weeks of "sleaze", do first time Tories in the red wall care? Most seem unaware, but those who have engaged with the news are angry - a warning to Johnson he won in 2019 by appearing like a non-traditional Tory party.
“This sleaze business, it’s absolutely disgusting. They’re not bothered about us, the working class. Maybe if they concentrated on their first job, this country wouldn’t be in the state that it’s in.”
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I honestly think the rejoin boat has sailed. It might come back, but not now.
The easy fix is obvious. Rejoin the EEA and do a customs deal. We are fully aligned with the EEA already, we have an increasing cost on business we can remove with a bonfire of red tape, we can even spin it as the EU agreeing to OUR standards.
Ultras will hate it but they're in the minority. TBH I think A16 will get triggered, there will be a rapid escalation until everyone is staring down the barrel of a nasty trade war. Then the newspapers will do some digging and find out that we're arguing for the right to have babies even though we can't have babies and conclude it isn't worth it. Trade wars always have to end with the pieces picked up from where they were dropped - so why bother.
A period of calm coexisting where people then realise we have no say will be the gentle catalyst towards rejoin, but I would be amazed if we did.
We’re not appropriate for the EEA we are the 5/6 largest economy in the world.
An almost comedic response. We are though appropriate for trans-Pacific and Nafta?
Free trade is a goal for all major economies. We had free trade with a giant trading block just 22 miles away, we have now imposed masses of red tape and bureaucracy. Exactly the kind of thing the Tories have campaigned against for decades, yet barriers and red tape for Brexit are suddenly being lauded as a Good Thing.
Yes, his work as a referee certainly hasn't been a secret. It simply appears he hasn't been registering it properly. Now don't get me wrong, he should have been and he deserves a rap across the knuckles for not doing so. But it's hardly a hanging offence.
Just another bent as a three bob bit Tory who only remembers they earned £30K on the side when it appears in the newspapers. These are the creeps that voted to take £20 quid a week off people who were getting £75 a week saying they could work 2 hours a week and make it up. How do these evil gits sleep at night.
This would be the same man who made it clear that (unlike Salmond and other SNP MPs) he would only take one salary and sought to decline his MSP salary? And when he was told that that wasn't possible donated his entire MSP salary to local charities? That "creep"?
Eh? I’ve lost quite a bit of respect for Salmond lately but I’m not sure what you’re on about here.
💰 After two weeks of "sleaze", do first time Tories in the red wall care? Most seem unaware, but those who have engaged with the news are angry - a warning to Johnson he won in 2019 by appearing like a non-traditional Tory party.
“This sleaze business, it’s absolutely disgusting. They’re not bothered about us, the working class. Maybe if they concentrated on their first job, this country wouldn’t be in the state that it’s in.”
One ally said the PM hates apologising as a point of principle: “The inability to close things down is extraordinary…He thinks apologising is a form of weakness. At the moment he’s just surviving day to day.”
EDIT: The upside of BoZo's pathological 'strongman' act is the increased likelihood of a Nicolae Ceaușescu moment. He will stand on the metaphorical balcony to receive the applause of the crowds, moments before the men in grey suits despatch his premiership.
I still think that it’s not helpful for everyone to go for Geoffrey Cox, who’s done nothing wrong except to have a great job that pays him a fortune on an hourly basis. The focus on Cox is distracting from other, potentially more serious offences that involve a genuine conflict of interest.
Cox is an excellent target for the media and the opposition because it's a visceral image that even Red Wall morons stood in the queue at Gregg's can understand.
You've got this utter monstrosity of a human being sat on his massive fucking arse in the Caribbean making piles of cash advising arseholes about wank while he's supposed to be an MP. No nuance required.
Yes, but his stuff was all declared and it's clear what he was up to for the money. Failings to declare or utter non entities getting big cash with no clear non shady reason to justify it are another level.
We know that Cox declared everything - you are missing the point. The image is the Tory pig with its snout in the trough eating money. Someone who is still paid as an MP but has essentially retired (1 contribution in the Commons in 18 months) and earns unfathomable amounts on top in a luxury Caribbean paradise just winds people up.
He is a totem that sells newspapers and keeps fuelling their longer harder investigations through the really murky waters to the genuinely Bad Stuff.
I'm not missing the point at all - I know the point is he looks like a greedy part time MP and that's why it gets focus and fuels continued focus on others and, hopefully, reveals some genuinely bad stuff.
My point is the distinction between the various instances still needs to be made, so we dont treat MPs who fail to declare the purchase of a pack of paper clips the same as someone claiming for a duck island. Despite you saying people know he declared it people are acting as though it's a revelation of standards wrongdoing akin to corrupt practice.
I'd rather not have such a part time MP, and I want very high standards of conduct as well, and would judge my MP on both, but they are separate issues.
And because I want to be reasonable to all MPs I dont want to act like all sins are equal and imply all matters are equally sleazy.
Being lazy and greedy is worth knowing, if that's the charge, but seems a localised concern for constituents.
I think part of the reason for the focus on Cox is because it's very easy journalism. His interests were all declared in the Register; all it took was somebody to publicise the fact that he was earning the money partly by working in the BVI.
The more important stories, involving paid advocacy and corruption, take much more research to make sure that the facts are right. There's a whole load of them swirling around, but they won't get much publicity until journalists, or the Labour Party, are pretty sure of their ground. I expect a drip-drip of such stories and/or allegations to keep coming until at least Xmas, so the issue won't go away. In the longer term, I expect the National Audit Office among others to be asking serious questions about Covid money. Not just contracts for mates, but also widespread abuse of furlough, business loans and so on.
Cox is just for starters, I think. Paterson was the appetiser.
Someone I know, who has his own business, was boasting that he's had £100,000 from SBG grant recently, and doesn't have to pay any of it back (implying that the claim wasn't entirely legit). To be honest this struck me as likely exaggeration or boasting, but you're right that there are surely going to be some wriggly worms in that compost.
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
Same as when BoJo stuck by the Prittster. Or Cummings. Or tried to defend Matt Handsy.
Boris gets the thrill of being the one in charge who can do whatever he likes. He also cements his status as the Big Man who will protect his underlings... As long as they stay loyal. And for two years, Johnson has got away with this.
Trouble was that this time, he didn't. (Though in the day of the vote, it looked like he had.)
Question is- what was different this time?
The difference this time was he pissed off a lot of his own MPs by making them complicit in the act, marshalling the forces of parliament, and then abandoned them just as quickly.
All of them and much of the public can get behind standing by your advisers or ministers, especially when the opposition are baying for blood.
But Paterson was a wrong un, not useful in government anymore and a cross party group judged him - in such matters you defend them in the process but at that point you cut them loose (and back him if there was a by election). You don't embarrass your MPs like this instead.
And you can't ignore or brush off scrutiny and criticism when you're PM, like he did in all his previous roles. I am sure he genuinely thought that if the whips could land the vote (which took a lot of threats and arm-twisting, by the sound of it), that would be the end of it.
An interesting follow-on question is how he's going to cope (and react) when(/if) he becomes extremely unpopular? Some politicians thrive on it, others cope. But he's not really been in that position before, and his psychological make-up suggests he is going to struggle.
There's a bit of a "silly season" vibe to politics going on.
Not making light of the sleaze stuff at all, and Boris has been very silly and made a bad situation much worse.
But after the last few years of intense politics this little of policy rather than personal issues being debated at the moment.
For most policy issues we seem in a bit of an interregnum.
Covid is going ok and we're ready for the winter and will see what happens there. Brexit we are waiting to see what happens when Article 16 is invoked. COP26 is ongoing but nobody credible is going to argue that climate change isn't real, or that Britain isn't already doing what needs to be done and it's really the USA and China etc that will matter there.
After perpetually having years of Covid or Brexit to debate, there's not much happening now policy wise.
Maybe your last five words are part of the government's problem now? Apart from levelling-up (whatever that means) what is the government for? What is it trying to achieve for the rest of its time in power? So the policy vacuum is filled with other stuff, like sleaze.
Interesting that even the Express is beginning to get it. The Tory party plan of firing up the Brexitism may not be a good one. People want a further referendum and want to Rejoin. Starmer is at risk of missing the boat on this too with "make Brexit work".
So when are the Lib Dems to come out and support rejoining rather than obfuscation
I honestly think the rejoin boat has sailed. It might come back, but not now.
The easy fix is obvious. Rejoin the EEA and do a customs deal. We are fully aligned with the EEA already, we have an increasing cost on business we can remove with a bonfire of red tape, we can even spin it as the EU agreeing to OUR standards.
Ultras will hate it but they're in the minority. TBH I think A16 will get triggered, there will be a rapid escalation until everyone is staring down the barrel of a nasty trade war. Then the newspapers will do some digging and find out that we're arguing for the right to have babies even though we can't have babies and conclude it isn't worth it. Trade wars always have to end with the pieces picked up from where they were dropped - so why bother.
A period of calm coexisting where people then realise we have no say will be the gentle catalyst towards rejoin, but I would be amazed if we did.
We’re not appropriate for the EEA we are the 5/6 largest economy in the world.
Is 5/6 so good we're just ahead of 1, then? But seriously, are you saying that because we're 5th biggest, we're too big? So presumably Germany (4th) and maybe France (6th) and Italy (7th) are 'not appropriate'?
"The wildlife charity that employs Carrie Johnson is facing further questions over its finances, after its latest accounts show it paid more than £150,000 in “interior design services” to the chairman’s wife last year."
More sh!tty journalism by the Grauniad, trying to bring guilt by association. Mrs Johnson is an employee, not a trustee of the charity in question.
Again, are the media going to spend more time on actual scandals, or are they just throwing enough mud and hoping some of it sticks?
That’s exactly it. The Douglas Ross story is pretty thin gruel too. An admin error. Unless the Sunday’s have some explosive stuff this feels like the tail end of the expenses scandal did.
I think the govt need to be concerned about the fox killing lawyer and any potential dodgy dealings in Covid contracts.
The government can be concerned even by the thinner stories because it adds to the narrative given 'sleaze' is an unhelpful term covering technical admin errors up to direct corruption and even the small stuff helps the impression the bigger stuff is widespread - and that works because Boris just proved he not only doesn't care about his own standards, that's well known, but that he will expend political capital to protect the corrupt in his ranks if he thinks he can get away with it.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
The Paterson action was an astonishing own goal. Totally unfathomable. What was there to gain to defend him ? It beggars belief. A total own goal.
They wanted to get rid of the Standards woman, presumably to replace her with their puppet. Hubris.
Maybe, but it's the tin ear to the likely public view that is truly astonishing. I feel for the Tory MPs who reluctantly followed the whip - how they will now be wishing they hadn't.
Well done the likes of Aaron Bell who correctly and bravely ignored the whips.
Right, before people pile on, can I make it clear that Dom Cummings is a) a mendacious idiot, not to be believed, and b) out for revenge. But nevertheless, I found this interesting:
It sounds vaguely believable, doesn't it? The 'trolley' got bored quickly once Brexit was done, needed more money, and wanted to write about Shakespeare - i.e. earn more money. If, and it's a big if, anybody more trustworthy than Dom could corroborate that Boris missed early Covid Cobra meetings in Feb 2020 because he was writing at Chevening, that may be rather damaging.
Yes, his work as a referee certainly hasn't been a secret. It simply appears he hasn't been registering it properly. Now don't get me wrong, he should have been and he deserves a rap across the knuckles for not doing so. But it's hardly a hanging offence.
Just another bent as a three bob bit Tory who only remembers they earned £30K on the side when it appears in the newspapers. These are the creeps that voted to take £20 quid a week off people who were getting £75 a week saying they could work 2 hours a week and make it up. How do these evil gits sleep at night.
This would be the same man who made it clear that (unlike Salmond and other SNP MPs) he would only take one salary and sought to decline his MSP salary? And when he was told that that wasn't possible donated his entire MSP salary to local charities? That "creep"?
Eh? I’ve lost quite a bit of respect for Salmond lately but I’m not sure what you’re on about here.
If he did I apologise but I have a vague recollection that the evidence that he followed through on this undertaking was incomplete to non existent, a bit like my MP's (Chris Law) promise to convert some of his castle into a day care facility for disabled children.
Comments
https://www.libdems.org.uk/eu-relationship
The easy fix is obvious. Rejoin the EEA and do a customs deal. We are fully aligned with the EEA already, we have an increasing cost on business we can remove with a bonfire of red tape, we can even spin it as the EU agreeing to OUR standards.
Ultras will hate it but they're in the minority. TBH I think A16 will get triggered, there will be a rapid escalation until everyone is staring down the barrel of a nasty trade war. Then the newspapers will do some digging and find out that we're arguing for the right to have babies even though we can't have babies and conclude it isn't worth it. Trade wars always have to end with the pieces picked up from where they were dropped - so why bother.
A period of calm coexisting where people then realise we have no say will be the gentle catalyst towards rejoin, but I would be amazed if we did.
The fact he is a 57 yr old divorcee, with numerous children from affairs, who has a 32 yr old, pregnant wife is fuel for his haters and also a reason to see a comeback as possible
*applies to the desire to kick the SNP government too .
One of the reasons this has continued to be such a mess is the fissure running down the country. In addition, if we were to half-heartedly rejoin, what are the odds that we’d flip around yet again and demand another exit?
A revolving door membership suits no-one.
To get people to want to rejoin and to have that widely spread and settled would require showing that closer alignment (Single Market first, and then actively wanting to be part of more and more programmes) would work and be beneficial and wanted.
So - working for closer alignment and getting to demonstrate that it is desirable for all (or, conversely, prove that it isn’t) is the best way to have a genuine and lasting Rejoin - without sowing the seeds for yet another Brexit. Learning the lessons from the past few years where both sides poisoned the discourse with their own haste, intolerance, and failure to consider the crucial question of: “then what?”
I am not sure even driven off is necessarily true, but it has been apparent for some time, especially first thing in the morning, the forum is dominated by pro EU - Lib Dem leaning posters all talking to themselves
Ultimately it is a matter for each lost poster who will have their own reasons for leaving, but the strength of PB is the wide cross section of political views and the more varied the better
I'm still still saying Conservative majority 30-40 seats in October 2023 election. Boris goes in 2025/2026. Labour wins in small majority in 2028.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/tories-warn-boris-johnson-could-be-gone-by-summer-if-sleaze-mess-isnt-cleared-up-soon
Forever’s a bloody long time.
When the seas and rivers have dried up, when the mountains have crumbled into dust, when the universe is darkened, and the time elapsed since your birth is not even one tick of the clock of eternity and the first million years have merged together in a glob of indistinct memories inseparable from the nest million, and the next million, and the next million… and you still have forever to come… what about then?
A longer (healthy and active) life - oh, yes. Numenorean-style, at least. Forever? Not for me.
So even the small stuff matters to them, especially as an entire political generation have no experience of governments falling way behind in the polls mid term. But we the public should be more concerned with some cases than others.
I still find the Paterson actions unfathomable. However much they liked him as a mate and however much they disliked the current system why they thought a desperate vote to address both would help I dont know. Everytime he talks about wrongdoing and punishment the opposition have cast iron proof he does not care.
He is a totem that sells newspapers and keeps fuelling their longer harder investigations through the really murky waters to the genuinely Bad Stuff.
My hunch is that enough will hold off so as not to trigger a vonc, as all it'd likely achieve is more bad headlines and probably worse polling. Additionally Boris would then be safe for another 12m.
(Far from sure though)
But "demonstrating the benefits to UK citizens and businesses of a much closer relationship" does not address some key things, including controlling the extent of sovereignty leak and the influence on the direction towards a super-state, immigration inequalities, the cost of rejoining, what about our rebate?. Would we have to abandon our currency? I know this is not true of many Lib Dems, but it sounds like the Libdems as a party has a wish to re-join at any cost.
When these weighty matters are considered, even cursorily, re-joining the EU within the next 50 years is a very long shot in my view.
https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1459287852081102852
I do agree though - several people who are almost painfully missing were good value. Has OGH et al reached out to try and entice some of them back?
But should Cox be conflated with a lobbying scandal? We knew about Cox's wealth and ongoing income generation from his legal firm yonks ago - when he was attorney general and before that even.
“When do we get to use the guns?” he said as the audience applauded. “How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?” "
“I have a hard time seeing how we have a peaceful 2024 election after everything that’s happened now": Lee Drutman (New America)
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/12/us/politics/republican-violent-rhetoric.html
Cox showed contempt for the rules as he is a very important man, but being a lot cleverer, did not break the rules.
Whether it is 100% fair or not, it is unsurprising the two get linked.
I'd say your post it a perfect example of one
Not making light of the sleaze stuff at all, and Boris has been very silly and made a bad situation much worse.
But after the last few years of intense politics this little of policy rather than personal issues being debated at the moment.
For most policy issues we seem in a bit of an interregnum.
Covid is going ok and we're ready for the winter and will see what happens there.
Brexit we are waiting to see what happens when Article 16 is invoked.
COP26 is ongoing but nobody credible is going to argue that climate change isn't real, or that Britain isn't already doing what needs to be done and it's really the USA and China etc that will matter there.
After perpetually having years of Covid or Brexit to debate, there's not much happening now policy wise.
My point is the distinction between the various instances still needs to be made, so we dont treat MPs who fail to declare the purchase of a pack of paper clips the same as someone claiming for a duck island. Despite you saying people know he declared it people are acting as though it's a revelation of standards wrongdoing akin to corrupt practice.
I'd rather not have such a part time MP, and I want very high standards of conduct as well, and would judge my MP on both, but they are separate issues.
And because I want to be reasonable to all MPs I dont want to act like all sins are equal and imply all matters are equally sleazy.
Being lazy and greedy is worth knowing, if that's the charge, but seems a localised concern for constituents.
What we learn about Geoffrey Cox and others illustrates that, even outside the Cabinet, there are Tory MPs temperamentally akin to the Prime Minister so far as the workings of democracy are concerned.
Champagne moment?
Given who @Casino_Royale’s new employer is I doubt they’d stop him posting but I imagine he’s busy making a good impression
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1459156229364883491
It sounds vaguely believable, doesn't it? The 'trolley' got bored quickly once Brexit was done, needed more money, and wanted to write about Shakespeare - i.e. earn more money. If, and it's a big if, anybody more trustworthy than Dom could corroborate that Boris missed early Covid Cobra meetings in Feb 2020 because he was writing at Chevening, that may be rather damaging.
Political and constitutional obsessives like us can point to the distinction between Cox's behaviour and Paterson's, but in doing so I think we may be missing the wood for the trees. To most voters, right or wrong matters more than allowed or not allowed.
https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1459143636466208773?s=21
Boris gets the thrill of being the one in charge who can do whatever he likes. He also cements his status as the Big Man who will protect his underlings... As long as they stay loyal. And for two years, Johnson has got away with this.
Trouble was that this time, he didn't. (Though in the day of the vote, it looked like he had.)
Question is- what was different this time?
All of them and much of the public can get behind standing by your advisers or ministers, especially when the opposition are baying for blood.
But Paterson was a wrong un, not useful in government anymore and a cross party group judged him - in such matters you defend them in the process but at that point you cut them loose (and back him if there was a by election). You don't embarrass your MPs like this instead.
The more important stories, involving paid advocacy and corruption, take much more research to make sure that the facts are right. There's a whole load of them swirling around, but they won't get much publicity until journalists, or the Labour Party, are pretty sure of their ground. I expect a drip-drip of such stories and/or allegations to keep coming until at least Xmas, so the issue won't go away. In the longer term, I expect the National Audit Office among others to be asking serious questions about Covid money. Not just contracts for mates, but also widespread abuse of furlough, business loans and so on.
Cox is just for starters, I think. Paterson was the appetiser.
An interesting follow-on question is how he's going to cope (and react) when(/if) he becomes extremely unpopular? Some politicians thrive on it, others cope. But he's not really been in that position before, and his psychological make-up suggests he is going to struggle.
My read from Ashfield https://www.ft.com/content/99222269-0c16-4fea-9693-71bb16de4e11
Lynn Anderson, a 50-year-old mother, was fuming:
“This sleaze business, it’s absolutely disgusting. They’re not bothered about us, the working class. Maybe if they concentrated on their first job, this country wouldn’t be in the state that it’s in.”
https://www.ft.com/content/99222269-0c16-4fea-9693-71bb16de4e11
Lee Anderson, Ashfield's Tory MP, is one of the 2019 intake who takes a different view to the old guard on second jobs:
"For me, being an MP is a full-time job. It’s not a hobby and I think some people in parliament see it as a bit of a part time thing"
https://www.ft.com/content/99222269-0c16-4fea-9693-71bb16de4e11
Free trade is a goal for all major economies. We had free trade with a giant trading block just 22 miles away, we have now imposed masses of red tape and bureaucracy. Exactly the kind of thing the Tories have campaigned against for decades, yet barriers and red tape for Brexit are suddenly being lauded as a Good Thing.
We aren't that stupid...
I’ve lost quite a bit of respect for Salmond lately but I’m not sure what you’re on about here.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/423924/alex-salmond-pledges-donate-salary-charity/
One ally said the PM hates apologising as a point of principle: “The inability to close things down is extraordinary…He thinks apologising is a form of weakness. At the moment he’s just surviving day to day.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65fc76aa-43ff-11ec-96bf-de0821791f3f?shareToken=587ecbaccfcb732e42a009adb73aeff4
EDIT: The upside of BoZo's pathological 'strongman' act is the increased likelihood of a Nicolae Ceaușescu moment. He will stand on the metaphorical balcony to receive the applause of the crowds, moments before the men in grey suits despatch his premiership.
But seriously, are you saying that because we're 5th biggest, we're too big? So presumably Germany (4th) and maybe France (6th) and Italy (7th) are 'not appropriate'?