The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
"COP26: The Royal Family's climate interventions have left no one in any doubt that they want meaningful actions from the summit
The royals have been everywhere and with their unique star appeal have helped to get pictures from this summit to a wider global audience as they've rubbed shoulders with everyone from world leaders to wealthy businessmen and high-profile campaigners.
The beauty of the English language is it's a mongrel and there are several ways to say the same things. It problem is it gives us different registers and people get judged unconsciously on the basis of which words they use. For example "to buy" / "to purchase".
That's an interesting point that I'd not consciously thought about but use all the time in my spare-time translation/revision work. I was revising someone's translation yesterday of an Austrian Government statement. The translation was fine, but it routinely used everyday language - abbreviations like "we're" and "it'd", "got" instead of "received", ""thought about" instead of "considered", etc. Without even thinking about it I changed it to the more formal usage everywhere, on the basis that this is what a government would want. Just being old-fashioned, perhaps actulaly making public statements less accessible, or bein gappropriate to the subject?
The Times article on Yorkshire CCC used "checkered" rather than "chequered" - First thing on a Sunday morning I had to "check" the correct spelling. Americanised
It also said that Gary Ballance and Azeem Rafiq often used unsvaoury language to address each other in a jokey way ("Zimbo" and "P-word" I would imagine). Apparently they were good friends and holidayed together at Ballance's place in South Africa. Not what I expected to read given what I had seen reported
The reporting on the Ballance 'apology' was amazing.
Actually reading it, what he really thinks is very clear.
Doesn't read to me like someone who considers themselves justly bang to rights by an innocent injured party.
I see what you mean. Contrition isn't exactly shining out there, is it. Essentially saying the p*** stuff was all friendly banter between mates, he had no idea it was a problem, is surprised to discover now that it was. More than a hint that Rafiq is the one more in the wrong - having also dished out some edgy bantz and compounded this by turning grass years later.
I note he twice mentions that he and Rafiq - a Muslim - often drank together. Which is odd, if you are trying to be conciliatory.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
Blimey the nerve was more than touched!
What do you want me to call Sir Keir? I'll do it, I'm sorry. I hate to be such a bad person, you can set the rules
You're being a touch 'hair trigger' there, isam. The 'arrant smeary nonsense' I was referencing is depressingly widespread.
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
An MP pension is astonishing, even by the standards of the most gold plated of the public sector pensions.
Ask how much you’d have to put into a private pension, to get a £10k index-linked annuity from 13 years’ contributions?
(NP makes very good points about having to give up a career for Parliament, if we want to find good people we do need to look at how they are rewarded for their service. The pension does reflect to some extent, the somewhat higher risk of getting fired, than for your average civil servant).
For those in safe seats, the pensions are gold plated indeed. For those like Nick, who interrupted a decent career to run for Parliament, and the got turfed out, it’s a little hyperbolic to describe them as such.
I would rather MPs receive decent remuneration than have them sell their souls to Randox et al.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
In years of PB I think these are stupidest things I have ever seen actually written down. Being lectured in patriotism by a party that took 5m million quid from Russian donors; that entered into a catastophic policy that has already cost hundreds of billions, and is accelerating our economic and political decline, not reversing it. A party that has brought Parliament and politics into disrepute, humiliated the Queen with an unconstiutuional prorogation of Parliament and many other greater and lesser consittional and polical crimes.
Shameless and mindless patriotism truly is the last refuge of the scoundrel. You imposed a bad man and a lousy PM on this country, a man who is unpicking the Union stich by stich, A Burchill who thinks he is a Churchill. For that alone the obliteration of the Tories can not come soon enough.
You chose this, you own it and you can take the f&%king consequences.
The simple fact is that you were not able to prevent us leaving the EU as you and many others failed to make a winning case
This morning Starmer clearly stated he will not re join the EU and said he would consider his response if A16 was served
Maybe make a coherent case as to how you would resolve this issue and contribute to the debate
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
An MP pension is astonishing, even by the standards of the most gold plated of the public sector pensions.
Ask how much you’d have to put into a private pension, to get a £10k index-linked annuity from 13 years’ contributions?
(NP makes very good points about having to give up a career for Parliament, if we want to find good people we do need to look at how they are rewarded for their service. The pension does reflect to some extent, the somewhat higher risk of getting fired, than for your average civil servant).
A 10k index linked annuity from age 65 willl cost you approx £300k at current rates. So that’s £23k / year. Given that MPs are paid ~£80k, that seems pretty much in line with other similar public sector jobs. 30% of pre-tax salary going into the pension fund is pretty typical.
Of course, if you’re not in the magic circle that gets the jobs that have these gold plated salaries, then you get to survive on the crumbs.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
Blimey the nerve was more than touched!
What do you want me to call Sir Keir? I'll do it, I'm sorry. I hate to be such a bad person, you can set the rules
You're being a touch 'hair trigger' there, isam. The 'arrant smeary nonsense' I was referencing is depressingly widespread.
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
Listen I know you despise passive aggressive behaviour, but, as they are both playing this afternoon, just want to confirm I support Arsenal not West Ham, and am not a particular fan of Ray Winstone. Thanks for the compliment on my use of a long word yesterday too
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
An MP pension is astonishing, even by the standards of the most gold plated of the public sector pensions.
Ask how much you’d have to put into a private pension, to get a £10k index-linked annuity from 13 years’ contributions?
(NP makes very good points about having to give up a career for Parliament, if we want to find good people we do need to look at how they are rewarded for their service. The pension does reflect to some extent, the somewhat higher risk of getting fired, than for your average civil servant).
For those in safe seats, the pensions are gold plated indeed. For those like Nick, who interrupted a decent career to run for Parliament, and the got turfed out, it’s a little hyperbolic to describe them as such.
I would rather MPs receive decent remuneration than have them sell their souls to Randox et al.
If you want to try and assess this, then you need to remember that there are 10 years of investment returns on top, since NP stepped down in 2010.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
I don't think it's a fair attack as it applies to pretty much any policy agreement, but I also think it's obvious from human nature that people who disagree with a major decision want it to be shown to be wrong, and will feel some element of chagrin if it turns out successfully. As I say, given it can work in any direction on any decision, I don't think it's fair to say that makes someone anti anything, but it's there. Most tories probably feared the minimum wage would cause unemployment, and felt slightly less joy at their being wrong on this than Labour voters did.
Yep that's right. It's human nature to thirst for vindication. It doesn't map to wanting bad things to happen. There's a necessary doublethink there which isn't unhealthy. Eg of the posters on here who were rooting for Trump to win WH20, it was clear that for some of them it was to burnish their betting/punditry rep not that they wanted to see an end to US democracy. But as for the others, well, they are quite simply ... no, some other time.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
10K after just 10 years is hugely more than your average person gets, would mean pot well over 200K. Most people have a fraction of that after full working life.
13 years. Your average person on £80k per year?
Of course it's similarly "gold plated" but LGPS would pay £21k (9.9% contribution p.a.)
Bollox and he was not on 80K a year far from it ( he started over 20 years ago) and stopped best part of 10 ago. so it will be much higher now. You are trying to say they would get 2% + of salary for every year , cuckoo.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
An MP pension is astonishing, even by the standards of the most gold plated of the public sector pensions.
Ask how much you’d have to put into a private pension, to get a £10k index-linked annuity from 13 years’ contributions?
(NP makes very good points about having to give up a career for Parliament, if we want to find good people we do need to look at how they are rewarded for their service. The pension does reflect to some extent, the somewhat higher risk of getting fired, than for your average civil servant).
A 10k index linked annuity from age 65 willl cost you approx £300k at current rates. So that’s £23k / year. Given that MPs are paid ~£80k, that seems pretty much in line with other similar public sector jobs. 30% of pre-tax salary going into the pension fund is pretty typical.
Of course, if you’re not in the magic circle that gets the jobs that have these gold plated salaries, then you get to survive on the crumbs.
My daughter has just sent me a photo of David Jones MPs vandalised office in Colwyn Bay
It is inexcusable, but if any conservative thinks this has not cut through they are in denial
This is Boris's biggest crisis, and if the rank and file conservative mps have any sense they will be issuing direct warnings to no 10 to clean up his act or go
Its awful that he has been attacked - an attack on the MP's office is an attack on the MP.
I wholly agree with you about this cutting through and we've both been saying this since it started - this is *massive*. The reason why the apologists think it will just go away is that other things have gone away and anyway the story is over. Isn't it?
No, it isn't. If we had seen the last instance of Tory corruption then perhaps after a period of anger it would have faded. But we haven't. We've barely scratched the surface, and many of the things that have featured on here but barely registered are now coming back with a "they've done WHAT?" reaction. Like PPE contracts awarded without tender to donors who trouser our money and don't actually deliver.
How can Boris clean his act up? This is who he is?
and we're now over 10m boosters. Unless Pfizer have been cooking their studies, there's no way hospital usage doesn't move from moderate to tiny over the next 2 months.
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
Cases down 25% on last week again in England. Lowest reported figure since the 19th of September.
Could still be a lagging effect from half term.
But I agree it looks very encouraging.
The fall started before half term, slowed down during half term and has now accelerated again.
Unlike the early September fall where 1 age group was busy starting a new wave, this time it is falls across the board so there is no obvious starter for a future wave (unsurprising given immunity has now filled in on kids) -
My daughter has just sent me a photo of David Jones MPs vandalised office in Colwyn Bay
It is inexcusable, but if any conservative thinks this has not cut through they are in denial
This is Boris's biggest crisis, and if the rank and file conservative mps have any sense they will be issuing direct warnings to no 10 to clean up his act or go
Its awful that he has been attacked - an attack on the MP's office is an attack on the MP.
I wholly agree with you about this cutting through and we've both been saying this since it started - this is *massive*. The reason why the apologists think it will just go away is that other things have gone away and anyway the story is over. Isn't it?
No, it isn't. If we had seen the last instance of Tory corruption then perhaps after a period of anger it would have faded. But we haven't. We've barely scratched the surface, and many of the things that have featured on here but barely registered are now coming back with a "they've done WHAT?" reaction. Like PPE contracts awarded without tender to donors who trouser our money and don't actually deliver.
How can Boris clean his act up? This is who he is?
I agree, but he is in last chance saloon with his red wall mps and I do believe this is a huge moment for the conservative party.
The honest and decent conservative mps must be horrified and fortified in their determination to have an effect
It only takes 55 letters, and right now mine would be written and in an addressed envelope awaiting posting which could happen at anytime without drastic changes
I called this out immediately and have condemned it ever since
and we're now over 10m boosters. Unless Pfizer have been cooking their studies, there's no way hospital usage doesn't move from moderate to tiny over the next 2 months.
Apart from Darwin award nominated antivaxxers.
Once the boosters are done with the over 50s it should be expanded to all adults.
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
On a 7 day avg, total covid cases in England are down 25.5% from their October peak. That's a *huge* drop. Cases in 0-19s are down 46.3%. That's a gargantuan drop. There's no ambiguity here. There's no "alternative point of view". Case are dropping. That shldn't be hard to report
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
10K after just 10 years is hugely more than your average person gets, would mean pot well over 200K. Most people have a fraction of that after full working life.
13 years. Your average person on £80k per year?
Of course it's similarly "gold plated" but LGPS would pay £21k (9.9% contribution p.a.)
Bollox and he was not on 80K a year far from it ( he started over 20 years ago) and stopped best part of 10 ago. so it will be much higher now. You are trying to say they would get 2% + of salary for every year , cuckoo.
and we're now over 10m boosters. Unless Pfizer have been cooking their studies, there's no way hospital usage doesn't move from moderate to tiny over the next 2 months.
One quark form the Boosters, is I notice NI is way behind the rest of the UK, less that half the uptake.
My daughter has just sent me a photo of David Jones MPs vandalised office in Colwyn Bay
It is inexcusable, but if any conservative thinks this has not cut through they are in denial
This is Boris's biggest crisis, and if the rank and file conservative mps have any sense they will be issuing direct warnings to no 10 to clean up his act or go
Its awful that he has been attacked - an attack on the MP's office is an attack on the MP.
I wholly agree with you about this cutting through and we've both been saying this since it started - this is *massive*. The reason why the apologists think it will just go away is that other things have gone away and anyway the story is over. Isn't it?
No, it isn't. If we had seen the last instance of Tory corruption then perhaps after a period of anger it would have faded. But we haven't. We've barely scratched the surface, and many of the things that have featured on here but barely registered are now coming back with a "they've done WHAT?" reaction. Like PPE contracts awarded without tender to donors who trouser our money and don't actually deliver.
How can Boris clean his act up? This is who he is?
That's the nub of it. Although Johnson isn't 'Britain Trump' - not really and thank god - I'd liken it to Trump and the pandemic. All he had to do there was react to it like any one of the billions of people on this planet who aren't Donald Trump and he'd be tucking into his 2nd term now. But he couldn't do that. He had to be what he is.
In betting terms a bit of caution is required. After all this stuff in recent times three facts stand out: The Tories are still in the lead in the polls Labour is not ahead in the public mind about who is competent to be the government. Labour can't win the next election outright, and almost certainly can't win at all without the SNP.
All politics is relative. Just as important as how rubbish the Tories are being, is the issue of alternative governments. At the last election only one party was in the running to run the country after the Brexit referendum, and they won. It may be no different next time.
What Boris is good at is campaigning. At the next election either Boris will be doing what he does best - winning elections - or he will have been replaced by someone who isn't tarnished in the same way as Boris.
When Major hit his sleaze problems he faced formidable brilliance from Labour. Boris doesn't.
On a 7 day avg, total covid cases in England are down 25.5% from their October peak. That's a *huge* drop. Cases in 0-19s are down 46.3%. That's a gargantuan drop. There's no ambiguity here. There's no "alternative point of view". Case are dropping. That shldn't be hard to report
Those are yesterday's figures, and a 7 day view using data which has a 7-10 day lag already means it significantly understates things. Kids cases have gone well past halving by now.
and we're now over 10m boosters. Unless Pfizer have been cooking their studies, there's no way hospital usage doesn't move from moderate to tiny over the next 2 months.
Apart from Darwin award nominated antivaxxers.
Once the boosters are done with the over 50s it should be expanded to all adults.
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
In betting terms a bit of caution is required. After all this stuff in recent times three facts stand out: The Tories are still in the lead in the polls Labour is not ahead in the public mind about who is competent to be the government. Labour can't win the next election outright, and almost certainly can't win at all without the SNP.
All politics is relative. Just as important as how rubbish the Tories are being, is the issue of alternative governments. At the last election only one party was in the running to run the country after the Brexit referendum, and they won. It may be no different next time.
What Boris is good at is campaigning. At the next election either Boris will be doing what he does best - winning elections - or he will have been replaced by someone who isn't tarnished in the same way as Boris.
When Major hit his sleaze problems he faced formidable brilliance from Labour. Boris doesn't.
More or less the entire reasons for my posts/bets about the next GE.
Quite surprised Con MAJ still 2.5 on Betfair though. This sleaze thing hasn't really moved the markets at all. I was hoping for an overreaction
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
10K after just 10 years is hugely more than your average person gets, would mean pot well over 200K. Most people have a fraction of that after full working life.
13 years. Your average person on £80k per year?
Of course it's similarly "gold plated" but LGPS would pay £21k (9.9% contribution p.a.)
Bollox and he was not on 80K a year far from it ( he started over 20 years ago) and stopped best part of 10 ago. so it will be much higher now. You are trying to say they would get 2% + of salary for every year , cuckoo.
My (career average) Civil Service pension builds up by 2.32% of salary for every year, so that seems likely
On a 7 day avg, total covid cases in England are down 25.5% from their October peak. That's a *huge* drop. Cases in 0-19s are down 46.3%. That's a gargantuan drop. There's no ambiguity here. There's no "alternative point of view". Case are dropping. That shldn't be hard to report
Those are yesterday's figures, and a 7 day view using data which has a 7-10 day lag already means it significantly understates things. Kids cases have gone well past halving by now.
7 day average (by specimen date) in England peaked at 490 per 100k on 20th October. Latest figure just went under 400 on 2nd November. It'll be down to 350 by the time the figures to the 6th are filled in.
and we're now over 10m boosters. Unless Pfizer have been cooking their studies, there's no way hospital usage doesn't move from moderate to tiny over the next 2 months.
The problem is that the number of people who have had boosters or third doses is only 58% of the number who had had second doses six months ago. Given that quite a lot of people are eligible for third doses before the six months, probably not much more than half of those eligible for boosters have had them. By definition the people who are eligible are the most vulnerable section of the population.
My daughter has just sent me a photo of David Jones MPs vandalised office in Colwyn Bay
It is inexcusable, but if any conservative thinks this has not cut through they are in denial
This is Boris's biggest crisis, and if the rank and file conservative mps have any sense they will be issuing direct warnings to no 10 to clean up his act or go
Its awful that he has been attacked - an attack on the MP's office is an attack on the MP.
I wholly agree with you about this cutting through and we've both been saying this since it started - this is *massive*. The reason why the apologists think it will just go away is that other things have gone away and anyway the story is over. Isn't it?
No, it isn't. If we had seen the last instance of Tory corruption then perhaps after a period of anger it would have faded. But we haven't. We've barely scratched the surface, and many of the things that have featured on here but barely registered are now coming back with a "they've done WHAT?" reaction. Like PPE contracts awarded without tender to donors who trouser our money and don't actually deliver.
How can Boris clean his act up? This is who he is?
In a way its cut through a bit precisely as it's so petty, much like some of the stupider expenses scandals. Despite false words to the contrary the timing and urgency showed it was about protecting a chum. That takes the piss and has no proper justification.
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
While recent scandals will put a spring in Labour’s step, it cannot pin its hopes solely on a change in the public mood. The Conservatives know that polarisation remains the best route to victory on a Leave-leaning map and will keep seeking new “culture war” controversies to reopen the old Brexit divide. They have an unlikely ally in such efforts – committed progressives who want Labour to focus on an uncompromising socially liberal message and are as eager for divisive arguments over values as the Conservatives.
Many of Labour’s own culture warriors do not see the risks polarisation poses for their party and see Starmer’s efforts to woo more socially conservative voters as an erosion of progressive values. Purity is always appealing to true believers, but purity cannot win Labour an election on today’s map. To win again, Starmer must instead help a divided party and a polarised nation learn to love compromise.
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
Blimey the nerve was more than touched!
What do you want me to call Sir Keir? I'll do it, I'm sorry. I hate to be such a bad person, you can set the rules
You're being a touch 'hair trigger' there, isam. The 'arrant smeary nonsense' I was referencing is depressingly widespread.
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
Listen I know you despise passive aggressive behaviour, but, as they are both playing this afternoon, just want to confirm I support Arsenal not West Ham, and am not a particular fan of Ray Winstone. Thanks for the compliment on my use of a long word yesterday too
Yes, the Arse, with West Ham as your 2nd favs, I know. I don't forget things. And if you now say you're no fan of Winstone and in fact wouldn't like him as London Mayor instead of Khan, then I'll accept that as the truth.
But I truly don't understand why you won't do just the one quick post using Johnson/Starmer syntax. I hate all this "Boris" and "Sir Keir" - make no bones about that - but I am able to do it. Look,
Boris is imo more charismatic than Sir Keir. See? And I'm still alive.
All you need to do is the opposite, type "Johnson is imo more charismatic than Starmer" and press 'post' on that. If you do, that's it, this thing is over and you won't hear another word about it, least from me.
No shot on target from Spurs again today it seems. Quite something for a club of their standing to go 270 mins without forcing the keeper into a save
Try enough although you discount the roller coaster ECL game in midweek. On balance, I suspect Conte would have taken 0-0 today had you offered him it before the game. He has had barely a moment to work with the team and got a clean sheet and a point at Goodison.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
Blimey the nerve was more than touched!
What do you want me to call Sir Keir? I'll do it, I'm sorry. I hate to be such a bad person, you can set the rules
You're being a touch 'hair trigger' there, isam. The 'arrant smeary nonsense' I was referencing is depressingly widespread.
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
Listen I know you despise passive aggressive behaviour, but, as they are both playing this afternoon, just want to confirm I support Arsenal not West Ham, and am not a particular fan of Ray Winstone. Thanks for the compliment on my use of a long word yesterday too
Yes, the Arse, with West Ham as your 2nd favs, I know. I don't forget things. And if you now say you're no fan of Winstone and in fact wouldn't like him as London Mayor instead of Khan, then I'll accept that as the truth.
But I truly don't understand why you won't do just the one quick post using Johnson/Starmer syntax. I hate all this "Boris" and "Sir Keir" - make no bones about that - but I am able to do it. Look,
Boris is imo more charismatic than Sir Keir. See? And I'm still alive.
All you need to do is the opposite, type "Johnson is imo more charismatic than Starmer" and press 'post' on that. If you do, that's it, this thing is over and you won't hear another word about it, least from me.
Actually it should be "Mr Johnson is more charismatic than Sir Keir".
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
Blimey the nerve was more than touched!
What do you want me to call Sir Keir? I'll do it, I'm sorry. I hate to be such a bad person, you can set the rules
You're being a touch 'hair trigger' there, isam. The 'arrant smeary nonsense' I was referencing is depressingly widespread.
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
Listen I know you despise passive aggressive behaviour, but, as they are both playing this afternoon, just want to confirm I support Arsenal not West Ham, and am not a particular fan of Ray Winstone. Thanks for the compliment on my use of a long word yesterday too
Yes, the Arse, with West Ham as your 2nd favs, I know. I don't forget things. And if you now say you're no fan of Winstone and in fact wouldn't like him as London Mayor instead of Khan, then I'll accept that as the truth.
But I truly don't understand why you won't do just the one quick post using Johnson/Starmer syntax. I hate all this "Boris" and "Sir Keir" - make no bones about that - but I am able to do it. Look,
Boris is imo more charismatic than Sir Keir. See? And I'm still alive.
All you need to do is the opposite, type "Johnson is imo more charismatic than Starmer" and press 'post' on that. If you do, that's it, this thing is over and you won't hear another word about it, least from me.
Actually it should be "Mr Johnson is more charismatic than Sir Keir".
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
It is happening in some areas (i heard Hertfordshire mentioned). Public Health is devolved to local councils, and local directors of Public Health have enormous power to do this (or at least strongly pressure LEA schools to do this)
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
10K after just 10 years is hugely more than your average person gets, would mean pot well over 200K. Most people have a fraction of that after full working life.
13 years. Your average person on £80k per year?
Of course it's similarly "gold plated" but LGPS would pay £21k (9.9% contribution p.a.)
Bollox and he was not on 80K a year far from it ( he started over 20 years ago) and stopped best part of 10 ago. so it will be much higher now. You are trying to say they would get 2% + of salary for every year , cuckoo.
LGPS is 1/49th of average salary.
It was pretty standard for final salary schemes to run at something like 1/80th of salary per year of service IIRC. Career average ones run at similar rates, but use (surprise!) career average salaries, not final. Since all MPs get the same pay rate (unless they get a government job), career average is approx equal to final salary in their case.
There’s nothing exceptional about MPs pensions, they’re pretty typical for these kind of roles. Of course, for many people, such pensions seem absurdly out of reach but that doesn’t change anything - these pensions are perfectly normal for the class of people that includes MPs in the UK. There are plenty of people living & working in London & elsewhere right now on remarkably similar schemes.
The rest of the system around MPs that allowed them to line their pockets in various other ways, more so in the past, are generally not available of course.
(Although saying that, when I started contracting several accountants I approached laid out to me the various ways I could pay my own family out of pre-tax cash if I so choose completely unprompted. Playing these kind of games with one’s income is clearly very common.)
My daughter has just sent me a photo of David Jones MPs vandalised office in Colwyn Bay
It is inexcusable, but if any conservative thinks this has not cut through they are in denial
This is Boris's biggest crisis, and if the rank and file conservative mps have any sense they will be issuing direct warnings to no 10 to clean up his act or go
Its awful that he has been attacked - an attack on the MP's office is an attack on the MP.
I wholly agree with you about this cutting through and we've both been saying this since it started - this is *massive*. The reason why the apologists think it will just go away is that other things have gone away and anyway the story is over. Isn't it?
No, it isn't. If we had seen the last instance of Tory corruption then perhaps after a period of anger it would have faded. But we haven't. We've barely scratched the surface, and many of the things that have featured on here but barely registered are now coming back with a "they've done WHAT?" reaction. Like PPE contracts awarded without tender to donors who trouser our money and don't actually deliver.
How can Boris clean his act up? This is who he is?
In a way its cut through a bit precisely as it's so petty, much like some of the stupider expenses scandals. Despite false words to the contrary the timing and urgency showed it was about protecting a chum. That takes the piss and has no proper justification.
I disagree. This was NOT about protecting Paterson. This was about protecting Johnson. He needed the Independent Commissioner gone and big cloud over the whole subject of investigating standards. That way the Covid contracts scandal and flatgate and bungs for peerages and planning could all be bundled into "its very murky, we're trying to reform investigations so all this can be resolved".
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I think and certainly hope he's being sarcastic and taking a dig at iSage...
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I do teach this side of Offa's Dyke, yes. LEAs have been pushing for a return to masking and bubbles, but whether that is coming straight from them or the DfE I don't know.
Contrary to what you believe, it was the DfE that was causing the majority of these issues last year, although they preferred to let LEAs get the blame. Equally, it's easy to get carried away and have silly ideas from the top 'normalised' so you try to do them without waiting for orders.
As for 'sense' and 'DfE' the only way those go in the same sentence is when 'non' is tacked in front of 'sense.'
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I think and certainly hope he's being sarcastic and taking a dig at iSage...
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I think and certainly hope he's being sarcastic and taking a dig at iSage...
No, he's not being sarcastic. There have been efforts to reduce school events and increase mask wearing. Fortunately my school hasn't gone back to requiring them in lessons yet, or you'd suddenly see much more of me on PB.
The beauty of the English language is it's a mongrel and there are several ways to say the same things. It problem is it gives us different registers and people get judged unconsciously on the basis of which words they use. For example "to buy" / "to purchase".
That's an interesting point that I'd not consciously thought about but use all the time in my spare-time translation/revision work. I was revising someone's translation yesterday of an Austrian Government statement. The translation was fine, but it routinely used everyday language - abbreviations like "we're" and "it'd", "got" instead of "received", ""thought about" instead of "considered", etc. Without even thinking about it I changed it to the more formal usage everywhere, on the basis that this is what a government would want. Just being old-fashioned, perhaps actulaly making public statements less accessible, or bein gappropriate to the subject?
The Times article on Yorkshire CCC used "checkered" rather than "chequered" - First thing on a Sunday morning I had to "check" the correct spelling. Americanised
It also said that Gary Ballance and Azeem Rafiq often used unsvaoury language to address each other in a jokey way ("Zimbo" and "P-word" I would imagine). Apparently they were good friends and holidayed together at Ballance's place in South Africa. Not what I expected to read given what I had seen reported
The reporting on the Ballance 'apology' was amazing.
Actually reading it, what he really thinks is very clear.
Doesn't read to me like someone who considers themselves justly bang to rights by an innocent injured party.
I see what you mean. Contrition isn't exactly shining out there, is it. Essentially saying the p*** stuff was all friendly banter between mates, he had no idea it was a problem, is surprised to discover now that it was. More than a hint that Rafiq is the one more in the wrong - having also dished out some edgy bantz and compounded this by turning grass years later.
I note he twice mentions that he and Rafiq - a Muslim - often drank together. Which is odd, if you are trying to be conciliatory.
The whole thing doesn't read to me as particularly conciliatory. The tone is 'hard done by'. Fair enough, I suppose, if that's how he honestly feels. It's his statement.
You would mandate mask wearing in England now. Okay. You would introduce a law that makes it illegal to visit pubs, bars, theatres, clubs and shops without a mask. That’s a very significant imposition.
Would you then also mandate vaccination in England from today?
?
Where did I say ban visiting pubs etc? They aren't banned up here or in Germany or in the rest of the world that hasn't been as daft as England in dropping the requirement to wear masks. England - like the rest of the developed world - should have maintained a mask mandate.
You didn't. you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Politically any new restrictions will be difficult because so many people down there think its all over. Hence the need for Plan B, Plan C, "Jabbed or Christmas gets it" etc etc
You keep asking what I think. I don't think. But I listen to what Whitty, Vallance, Van-Tam, Taylor etc think. I know nothing on this subject, I am not a doctor or a virologist or someone qualified to disagree with them. Unlike you and many on here apparently.
Jesus Christ, Jonathan Van-Tam, the "qualified" man you revere on this issue, famously said "masks are useless, my friend in Hong Kong told me" (this despite everyone in Hong Kong wearing a mask. Odd that)
He's a fricking idiot. You are pathetically grovelling to establishment half-wits. Grow a spine
You misunderstand RP, he wants the government to u-turn on plan b or c or masks regardless of what's actually happening on the ground. If England (and the rest of the UK) has hit herd immunity and we continue to see the current big drops in cases it will prove the UK government position was right (run hot in the summer and autumn, no restrictions) and that Europe was wrong (prevent spread, retain NPIs). In his small world the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. This would upend that as European countries head into lockdown 4 and the UK exits the pandemic entirely.
Just look at his bluster over the supposedly failing booster programme which has now done 10m doses. The facts don't matter to him, just that the UK is always wrong and Europe always right. Weirdly he voted leave. 🤷♂️
Max you are accusing RP of hating the UK and loving Europe just like you were with me. I think we can argue about stuff without resorting to people's lack of patriotism.
Re the 3rd jab it did start as a bit of a shambles but then got turned around pretty impressively. I saw the change in action as I was on the verge of my booster when it was all wrong and with in a couple of weeks they turned it around to become a very effective experience. The 1st two were very successful throughout I thought.
EU lovers do stick together!
The shambles was because the NHS management decided it would take complete control of the third jab rollout rather than leave it to the same people that did the initial roll out. About two weeks ago the Saj handed it all back to the private company and as if by magic people can book appointments easily and get provisioned a month in advance of their expected eligibility. If he hadn't done that we'd be relying on letters and phone calls to get appointments. Well I wouldn't because I'm not allowed one. 😭
I agree with your post, but just because we 'love' the EU doesn't mean we hate the UK. We don't.
I think it does, the EU is a hostile entity to the UK, it is no longer any kind of ally to us.
Well it doesn't because I don't hate the UK and I do like the EU. So by definition it isn't true. You really do need to stop thinking Remainers are all anti the UK. We are not. We just disagreed on leaving. Nothing more than that.
It's similar to the "Boris haters are rooting for lots of Covid deaths and a massive recession so as to bring him down" - ie the false association of disliking British government policy with traitorously rooting against Britain and its people. Arrant smeary nonsense.
Blimey the nerve was more than touched!
What do you want me to call Sir Keir? I'll do it, I'm sorry. I hate to be such a bad person, you can set the rules
You're being a touch 'hair trigger' there, isam. The 'arrant smeary nonsense' I was referencing is depressingly widespread.
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
Listen I know you despise passive aggressive behaviour, but, as they are both playing this afternoon, just want to confirm I support Arsenal not West Ham, and am not a particular fan of Ray Winstone. Thanks for the compliment on my use of a long word yesterday too
Yes, the Arse, with West Ham as your 2nd favs, I know. I don't forget things. And if you now say you're no fan of Winstone and in fact wouldn't like him as London Mayor instead of Khan, then I'll accept that as the truth.
But I truly don't understand why you won't do just the one quick post using Johnson/Starmer syntax. I hate all this "Boris" and "Sir Keir" - make no bones about that - but I am able to do it. Look,
Boris is imo more charismatic than Sir Keir. See? And I'm still alive.
All you need to do is the opposite, type "Johnson is imo more charismatic than Starmer" and press 'post' on that. If you do, that's it, this thing is over and you won't hear another word about it, least from me.
I am sure I have referred to them that way in the past. Have a check and get back to me!
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I do teach this side of Offa's Dyke, yes. LEAs have been pushing for a return to masking and bubbles, but whether that is coming straight from them or the DfE I don't know.
Contrary to what you believe, it was the DfE that was causing the majority of these issues last year, although they preferred to let LEAs get the blame. Equally, it's easy to get carried away and have silly ideas from the top 'normalised' so you try to do them without waiting for orders.
As for 'sense' and 'DfE' the only way those go in the same sentence is when 'non' is tacked in front of 'sense.'
The "anecdotal" stories suggest it's being driven by local DoPHs, not DfE.
and we're now over 10m boosters. Unless Pfizer have been cooking their studies, there's no way hospital usage doesn't move from moderate to tiny over the next 2 months.
Apart from Darwin award nominated antivaxxers.
Once the boosters are done with the over 50s it should be expanded to all adults.
Wouldn't have much impact on hospitalisations.
I'd say that that depends whether it is necessary for all age groups.
I could see us ending up with 2 a year for groups 1-9, and 1 a year for the rest.
Someone also needs to consider the rest of the world.
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
If only. Then I wouldn't be reduced to pleading like this.
But c'mon, please and pretty please - just try a little "Johnson" and "Starmer" in one little post.
What's the worst that could happen?
No, I've decided to stick with my own words, but thanks for the offer
Police the others who use derogatory terms by all means, I'm with you all the way
Daily Star (Scottish edition anyway) regularly refer to Johnson as Bozo.
George Galloway on his Sunday Youtube talk show has referred to Sir Keir as Sir Keith.
I believe both Memes started here.
Bozo is a very special word though, as is the phrase The Clown. If you use it, it magically transforms whatever other horseshit you write in the rest of the post to mean that Boris is proven to be not only the worst PM ever but the worst that it it is possible to be, and the government to not only be the worst there has ever been, but... etc.
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
Worzel works, doesn't it? But if you don't mind I'll keep referring to the PM as Johnson.
If only. Then I wouldn't be reduced to pleading like this.
But c'mon, please and pretty please - just try a little "Johnson" and "Starmer" in one little post.
What's the worst that could happen?
No, I've decided to stick with my own words, but thanks for the offer
Police the others who use derogatory terms by all means, I'm with you all the way
Daily Star (Scottish edition anyway) regularly refer to Johnson as Bozo.
George Galloway on his Sunday Youtube talk show has referred to Sir Keir as Sir Keith.
I believe both Memes started here.
Bozo is a very special word though, as is the phrase The Clown. If you use it, it magically transforms whatever other horseshit you write in the rest of the post to mean that Boris is proven to be not only the worst PM ever but the worst that it it is possible to be, and the government to not only be the worst there has ever been, but... etc.
I disagree - it's just a very successful PB Meme - that's how I use it anyway.
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I do teach this side of Offa's Dyke, yes. LEAs have been pushing for a return to masking and bubbles, but whether that is coming straight from them or the DfE I don't know.
Contrary to what you believe, it was the DfE that was causing the majority of these issues last year, although they preferred to let LEAs get the blame. Equally, it's easy to get carried away and have silly ideas from the top 'normalised' so you try to do them without waiting for orders.
As for 'sense' and 'DfE' the only way those go in the same sentence is when 'non' is tacked in front of 'sense.'
The "anecdotal" stories suggest it's being driven by local DoPHs, not DfE.
Entirely possible.
I think too many otherwise unemployable jobsworths have got a little too fond of the taste of power Covid gave them. They're making decisions to feel they are in control rather than because they would be of benefit.
And that could certainly apply to the DoPH in the average LA as it does to the DfE.
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
When I fall out of your good books you always say I "used to be quite funny at times", like I'm some aging mid-rank comic now scrubbing around in panto. Such a sad and pathetic vibe, that creates!
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
When I fall out of your good books you always say I "used to be funny at times", like I'm some aging comic now scrubbing around in panto. Such a sad and pathetic vibe, that creates!
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
When I fall out of your good books you always say I "used to be funny at times", like I'm some aging comic now scrubbing around in panto. Such a sad and pathetic vibe, that creates!
Surely the correct course of action, as I have suggested many times, is just to settle on the fact that Boris is really just A Johnson?
The state of play Leader Ratings wise, between Boris and Sir Keir
Dark Blue is Boris Gross Positives, Light Blue his Net Satisfaction, and the same in Red for Sir Keir. As I have been saying, in Electoral Cycles there is ebb and flow - For a long while Sr Keir led on Net Satisfaction, then Boris was walking it, now it it is more level.
You'd never have guessed
I think I can explain Johnson's fluctuating net positives. Perception was, he invented and procured Covid busting vaccines that the rest of our former EU colleagues singularity and as an alliance failed so to do. There was more than a grain of truth in this statement and as the incumbent he rightly took the spoils. He needs something equally impressive to repeat the pattern. I can't imagine what that might be. I wait with bated breath. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that whatever it will be, it might come to pass.
On the other hand Starmer is dreary, but in the near future dreary might be of the moment.
"... in the near future dreary might be of the moment". That has been the hope all along.
I have actually missed out the last YouGov for Sir Keir there, where he scored -40 (20/60)
The women in Labour's Shad Cab have so much more zip and energy about them. I am amazed Labour went for an old, white, man again.
Less of the old. He's younger than me!
59, not that old actually I suppose. I thought he was in his early 60s
Would have thought you'd be all over that sort of core data on your specialist subject.
More of a hobby.
I didn't want to get to you like this, I thought you could be quite funny at times.
You're not a moderator are you. That wouldn't end well for me
What more can I do than apologise for calling Boris "Boris", and Sir Keir, "Sir Keir", and leave you to police those who refer to them as "Bozo", "Shagger" "Liar" "Worzel", "Keith" etc
When I fall out of your good books you always say I "used to be quite funny at times", like I'm some aging mid-rank comic now scrubbing around in panto. Such a sad and pathetic vibe, that creates!
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 16m I don't know why people think this is so hard. Just ban second jobs. If it means MPs can't do shifts in A&E that's a shame. But there's a bigger issue at stake here.
My contract of employment forbids me from having a second job. That’s fairly normal I think.
Does your contract also include a provision that means you have to reapply for the job at unspecified intervals, but no more than five years apart?
Being an MP is NOT a job, it is an elected position.
No, but that’s why they’re paid 80-odd K a year.
Plus huge amounts of expenses and can claim anything , can employ their families , gold plated pensions and big pay offs when found out.
The pensions aren’t anything to write home about, as per Nick P’s comment upthread.
MP’s gold plated pensions are a myth.
An MP pension is astonishing, even by the standards of the most gold plated of the public sector pensions.
Ask how much you’d have to put into a private pension, to get a £10k index-linked annuity from 13 years’ contributions?
(NP makes very good points about having to give up a career for Parliament, if we want to find good people we do need to look at how they are rewarded for their service. The pension does reflect to some extent, the somewhat higher risk of getting fired, than for your average civil servant).
For those in safe seats, the pensions are gold plated indeed. For those like Nick, who interrupted a decent career to run for Parliament, and the got turfed out, it’s a little hyperbolic to describe them as such.
I would rather MPs receive decent remuneration than have them sell their souls to Randox et al.
You think Paterson was driven to taking Randox's money by grinding poverty?
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I do teach this side of Offa's Dyke, yes. LEAs have been pushing for a return to masking and bubbles, but whether that is coming straight from them or the DfE I don't know.
Contrary to what you believe, it was the DfE that was causing the majority of these issues last year, although they preferred to let LEAs get the blame. Equally, it's easy to get carried away and have silly ideas from the top 'normalised' so you try to do them without waiting for orders.
As for 'sense' and 'DfE' the only way those go in the same sentence is when 'non' is tacked in front of 'sense.'
The "anecdotal" stories suggest it's being driven by local DoPHs, not DfE.
Entirely possible.
I think too many otherwise unemployable jobsworths have got a little too fond of the taste of power Covid gave them. They're making decisions to feel they are in control rather than because they would be of benefit.
And that could certainly apply to the DoPH in the average LA as it does to the DfE.
"otherwise unemployable jobsworths"
Hmmm
Do you mean to suggest that you have observed, or have peer reviewed data on, "employable jobsworths"?
If so, that is Nobel Prize level stuff - that's like observing Dark Matter.
United Kingdom government organization Today Prime Minister @BorisJohnson and Home Secretary @PritiPatel visited @NeasdenTemple in North London, as Hindus in the United Kingdom, India and around the world celebrate #Diwali and welcome in the New Year.
7 day avg for kids cases now lower than it was on September 6th, & down 49% from its peak. I guess that's the reason they've just started masking loads of kids, cancelling their schools discoes, nativity plays, etc?
If this is occurring (and I have no reason to doubt Lilico, although I suspect his evidence is largely anecdotal), it is scandalous. At some stage, the DfE will surely be asked to step in: my sense is that nobody is sense-checking LEAs. Perhaps @ydoethur can illuminate us, as I believe he teaches just this side of Offa’s Dyke?
I do teach this side of Offa's Dyke, yes. LEAs have been pushing for a return to masking and bubbles, but whether that is coming straight from them or the DfE I don't know.
Contrary to what you believe, it was the DfE that was causing the majority of these issues last year, although they preferred to let LEAs get the blame. Equally, it's easy to get carried away and have silly ideas from the top 'normalised' so you try to do them without waiting for orders.
As for 'sense' and 'DfE' the only way those go in the same sentence is when 'non' is tacked in front of 'sense.'
The "anecdotal" stories suggest it's being driven by local DoPHs, not DfE.
Entirely possible.
I think too many otherwise unemployable jobsworths have got a little too fond of the taste of power Covid gave them. They're making decisions to feel they are in control rather than because they would be of benefit.
And that could certainly apply to the DoPH in the average LA as it does to the DfE.
"otherwise unemployable jobsworths"
Hmmm
Do you mean to suggest that you have observed, or have peer reviewed data on, "employable jobsworths"?
If so, that is Nobel Prize level stuff - that's like observing Dark Matter.
Well, by definition these particular jobsworths are employed.
I’m a big @kinabalu fan, but cannot see why @isam deserves censure for calling Boris and Sir Keir by their given names.
He always spells Keir’s name correctly, which is more than can be said for several other geniuses on here.
Well thanks vm for that, most kind.
But look, point 1, it's not a big deal, and point 2, the point that's very valid but not a big deal is with the 100% all-the-time. never a slip, use not of Keir but "Sir" Keir.
Our isam does this to denigrate, sneer, mock his hate object, the eponymous knight of the realm who currently leads the Labour Party. He has much invested, emotionally, financially, philosophically, spiritually, sexu ... ok maybe not that, but you get my drift ... in him failing to eject the Muscly Magnificence come the election.
People paying attention to isam's posting on SKS will know this. You are probably not paying much attention to it, in which case, hats off and good call.
Comments
https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/asia-pacific/954343/what-would-happen-china-attempt-invade-taiwan
What a failure
But now you mention it, yes. Let's have a post from you - and why not make it the next one - where you write 'Johnson' for the beloved and 'Starmer' for the hate object.
Just the one, to show you can do it, then back to 'bau'.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/07/parliament-sleaze-watchdog-kathryn-stone-security-increased-rise-abuse-owen-paterson-scandal
For those like Nick, who interrupted a decent career to run for Parliament, and the got turfed out, it’s a little hyperbolic to describe them as such.
I would rather MPs receive decent remuneration than have them sell their souls to Randox et al.
This morning Starmer clearly stated he will not re join the EU and said he would consider his response if A16 was served
Maybe make a coherent case as to how you would resolve this issue and contribute to the debate
Of course, if you’re not in the magic circle that gets the jobs that have these gold plated salaries, then you get to survive on the crumbs.
Many are furious and it has been reported they are turning against the so called Spartans
I wholly agree with you about this cutting through and we've both been saying this since it started - this is *massive*. The reason why the apologists think it will just go away is that other things have gone away and anyway the story is over. Isn't it?
No, it isn't. If we had seen the last instance of Tory corruption then perhaps after a period of anger it would have faded. But we haven't. We've barely scratched the surface, and many of the things that have featured on here but barely registered are now coming back with a "they've done WHAT?" reaction. Like PPE contracts awarded without tender to donors who trouser our money and don't actually deliver.
How can Boris clean his act up? This is who he is?
https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1457378988666593285?s=20
But I agree it looks very encouraging.
Scotland Daily Coronavirus (COVID-19) Report · Sunday 7th November.
2,908 new cases (people positive) reported, giving a total of 662,644.
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1457354159502540800?s=20
Last week 2,513
But c'mon, please and pretty please - just try a little "Johnson" and "Starmer" in one little post.
What's the worst that could happen?
Unlike the early September fall where 1 age group was busy starting a new wave, this time it is falls across the board so there is no obvious starter for a future wave (unsurprising given immunity has now filled in on kids) -
http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png
The honest and decent conservative mps must be horrified and fortified in their determination to have an effect
It only takes 55 letters, and right now mine would be written and in an addressed envelope awaiting posting which could happen at anytime without drastic changes
I called this out immediately and have condemned it ever since
Once the boosters are done with the over 50s it should be expanded to all adults.
Police the others who use derogatory terms by all means, I'm with you all the way
@AndrewLilico
On a 7 day avg, total covid cases in England are down 25.5% from their October peak. That's a *huge* drop. Cases in 0-19s are down 46.3%. That's a gargantuan drop. There's no ambiguity here. There's no "alternative point of view". Case are dropping. That shldn't be hard to report
% of over 12s who have had 3rd Jab/booster
England: 17.5%
Scotland: 20.0%
Wales: 18.8%
NI: 8.7%
Anybody know why? do people not what it or has there been an admin error, or are the numbers incompliant?
The Tories are still in the lead in the polls
Labour is not ahead in the public mind about who is competent to be the government.
Labour can't win the next election outright, and almost certainly can't win at all without the SNP.
All politics is relative. Just as important as how rubbish the Tories are being, is the issue of alternative governments. At the last election only one party was in the running to run the country after the Brexit referendum, and they won. It may be no different next time.
What Boris is good at is campaigning. At the next election either Boris will be doing what he does best - winning elections - or he will have been replaced by someone who isn't tarnished in the same way as Boris.
When Major hit his sleaze problems he faced formidable brilliance from Labour. Boris doesn't.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1457382224119189506?s=20
Quite surprised Con MAJ still 2.5 on Betfair though. This sleaze thing hasn't really moved the markets at all. I was hoping for an overreaction
He always spells Keir’s name correctly, which is more than can be said for several other geniuses on here.
He's written a letter to Dick-
https://twitter.com/StephenFlynnSNP/status/1457374809155850240/photo/1
And all I got was Palmer Pension talk
Many of Labour’s own culture warriors do not see the risks polarisation poses for their party and see Starmer’s efforts to woo more socially conservative voters as an erosion of progressive values. Purity is always appealing to true believers, but purity cannot win Labour an election on today’s map. To win again, Starmer must instead help a divided party and a polarised nation learn to love compromise.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/07/if-labour-cant-beat-the-tories-polarising-game-it-should-build-bridges-instead
George Galloway on his Sunday Youtube talk show has referred to Sir Keir as Sir Keith.
I believe both Memes started here.
But I truly don't understand why you won't do just the one quick post using Johnson/Starmer syntax. I hate all this "Boris" and "Sir Keir" - make no bones about that - but I am able to do it. Look,
Boris is imo more charismatic than Sir Keir. See? And I'm still alive.
All you need to do is the opposite, type "Johnson is imo more charismatic than Starmer" and press 'post' on that. If you do, that's it, this thing is over and you won't hear another word about it, least from me.
Pak 189/4 (20 ovs), Sco 43/4 (11 ovs)
…says it all.
There’s nothing exceptional about MPs pensions, they’re pretty typical for these kind of roles. Of course, for many people, such pensions seem absurdly out of reach but that doesn’t change anything - these pensions are perfectly normal for the class of people that includes MPs in the UK. There are plenty of people living & working in London & elsewhere right now on remarkably similar schemes.
The rest of the system around MPs that allowed them to line their pockets in various other ways, more so in the past, are generally not available of course.
(Although saying that, when I started contracting several accountants I approached laid out to me the various ways I could pay my own family out of pre-tax cash if I so choose completely unprompted. Playing these kind of games with one’s income is clearly very common.)
Contrary to what you believe, it was the DfE that was causing the majority of these issues last year, although they preferred to let LEAs get the blame. Equally, it's easy to get carried away and have silly ideas from the top 'normalised' so you try to do them without waiting for orders.
As for 'sense' and 'DfE' the only way those go in the same sentence is when 'non' is tacked in front of 'sense.'
C'mon Scotland!
India were getting 14 the other day...
I could see us ending up with 2 a year for groups 1-9, and 1 a year for the rest.
Someone also needs to consider the rest of the world.
I’m not in the ground tonight, watching it on TV with everyone else!
Intel for other poor PBers like me - Mexican GP is live on Radio 5 live from 6.45.
This is October. Chinese vaccines falling back in numbers. UK production at 9 million in Oct.
https://globalcommissionforpostpandemicpolicy.org/covid-19-vaccine-production-to-october-31st-2021/
I think too many otherwise unemployable jobsworths have got a little too fond of the taste of power Covid gave them. They're making decisions to feel they are in control rather than because they would be of benefit.
And that could certainly apply to the DoPH in the average LA as it does to the DfE.
Hmmm
Do you mean to suggest that you have observed, or have peer reviewed data on, "employable jobsworths"?
If so, that is Nobel Prize level stuff - that's like observing Dark Matter.
@10DowningStreet
·
25m
United Kingdom government organization
Today Prime Minister
@BorisJohnson
and Home Secretary
@PritiPatel
visited
@NeasdenTemple
in North London, as Hindus in the United Kingdom, India and around the world celebrate #Diwali and welcome in the New Year.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1457386697558220805?s=20
Scotland recovering well, but not enough time to make the runs. Pakistan will win the group now.
But look, point 1, it's not a big deal, and point 2, the point that's very valid but not a big deal is with the 100% all-the-time. never a slip, use not of Keir but "Sir" Keir.
Our isam does this to denigrate, sneer, mock his hate object, the eponymous knight of the realm who currently leads the Labour Party. He has much invested, emotionally, financially, philosophically, spiritually, sexu ... ok maybe not that, but you get my drift ... in him failing to eject the Muscly Magnificence come the election.
People paying attention to isam's posting on SKS will know this. You are probably not paying much attention to it, in which case, hats off and good call.