So we are saying that Andy Burnham is the new David Miliband?
I haven't seen him wielding any soft fruits, so no.
Isnt banana a vegetable?
The banana plant is a herb. I have no idea what defines a herb. The banana is the fruit of the herb. However frankly as far as day to day use is concerned I think people worrying about things like what rhubarb and tomatoes are have too much time on their hands, although I appreciate some get very worked up about it.
I only commented in response to what the previous poster hadsaid. It was meant to be lighthearted but I can see that some people get on.my case because they get worked up about it.
In case you thought I was, I wasn't having a go at you @SquareRoot . Bizarrely I think it is strange it's a herb and now I'm attempting to find out what defines a herb so I appreciate the post.
As I said, it is short for herbaceous perennial, meaning no woody stem. A herb is something you use in sub-nutritious quantities for flavouring or medicine, which nobody does with bananas.
You mean banana enemas aren’t a thing?
Damn!
I suppose if your partner is dressing up as a nurse, you could pretend its a medical treatment, Charles.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
The correct structure and level of funding of the NHS are a matter of opinion, but it is just ridiculous dogmatism to suggest that Brexit hasn't had an adverse effect of the performance of the NHS due to staffing issues.
Also, please stop putting words in my mouth. I've never suggested that the NHS might not be in need of reform, let alone been in denial about it. As it happens, I'm an admirer of the German system in particular, and I think we could learn a thing or two from the Germans.
And yet in the comment I was replying to you mentioned Brexit as being the cause of underfunding and understaffing without reference to any other long term structural issues. Not really surprising that I answered what you wrote rather than what you now claim to believe.
"We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal."
"The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs."
He is right. He is absolutely right
Read it all. This is the best, smartest, most wisely wide-ranging speech I have heard from any global political leader in a decade. And this is PUTIN
He's not right, he's right-wing. No surprise you're a Putin admirer tbh.
I dislike Putin, generally. He kills his enemies. But then, so does the POTUS, with drones (and so does Boris). And sometimes your wiser enemies, or rivals, see you better then you see yourself. Putin nails this here. Wokeness is Bolshevism, right down to the determined destruction of the family unit
Putin is a fascinating character, worthy of respect, along with due wariness and preparedness. He is certainly not some mad aggressive autocrat, he is not Hitler. He actually thinks
I sense your D’Annunzio hard-on is raising its ugly head again.
You're not an idiot, TUD. You and I disagree vehemently on Scottish Nationalism, but I believe we disagree on principled grounds. I do not want to see the UK dismembered, you believe Scotland has a national destiny which demands this. But we respectfully differ
Read Putin's speech and tell me he has not correctly identified sicknesses within the West. I believe he has
I'm afraid I do disagree with you (& Vlad) about the sickness within the West. The current spasm seems to me just a version of the usual messy collision of young and old, right and left, ancient and modern, even if exacerbated by 'events'. More sinister is the retreat into nationalism, faith, family and all that good shit, and there seem to be versions of this sprouting up all over the shop.
I don't even get the family unit stuff. My parents divorced 50 years ago, each married & divorced again and both are now a-moldering in their graves. I daresay that may have had unfavourable consequences for all involved but I think a golden age of the family unit is barely within living memory if it ever existed at all.
ps, thanks for suggesting I'm not an idiot!
I’m not seeing the woke Lubyanka, where the wokeists torture and murder their victims …. or perhaps the comparison with the Bolshevism is just idiotic. Incidentally, it’s not the wokeists who still run the Lubyanka, is it Vlad ?
I wonder what @Leon makes of Josh’s take on the moral panic ?
The context differs, but problem with revolutions, social or political; is that they tend to lead to counter revolutions. So it will be with the woke, and it won’t be a good thing.
Plenty of revolutions occur with little, or no, counter-revolution.
As an example of an utterly positive revolution, look at gat marriage. from unthinkable in the 1980s, to being accepted over vast swathes of the world in the 2010s. The same can probably be said for gay rights in the 1960s to 1980s.
Or the way perceived roles of women - and of men as well - have changed considerably since the 1960s. Relatively few people in the UK are calling for women to leave the workplace.
There has been massive societal change over the last few decades, and there have been barely whimpers in reply.
You are comparing incremental social change with the revolution that I (and some others) see with regard to what, in very general terms, may be described as the 'woke'.
The error that many people make is that they see what is going on as incremental change; but it is actually a movement that tries to change the entire philosophical basis of liberal western society. Whilst I am no apologist for his regime; that is what Putin is correctly describing.
Looking at Russia; Peter Pomerantsev brilliantly decribes how the future first arrives in Russia. So it is with Putin's brilliant exploitation of conservative social values to entrench his power over the past decade. And so, I suggest, it will ultimately be in the west.
This is not desirable at all; the best possible outcome is that we get something like 'woke lite', but getting there involves a rejection of much of this agenda; the denial of history, the denial of biological differences; the obsession with grievances; and the idea that everything is socially constructed - an agenda that many people seem to embrace.
Good analysis. The woke lunacy gripping parts of academia, "left" activists and frightened managers and business owners needs to be combatted effectively from a socially liberal and democratic stance or we are going to end up with a nasty ultra-conservative backlash. It needs to be both mocked and dismantled intellectually.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
Yes, yes they are. They don't even have to open the bag. I guess some people might not want to touch/handle raw meat at all. Seems silly though
Actually it is popular with people who don't like cleaning their ovens. You cut open the bag at the end of cooking so there is no escape of juices of fat to get the interior dirty.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
I remember some Brexity types on here getting very exercised about the EU 'banning' the Union flag on British food packaging. It didn't seem to make the slightest difference to them to have it pointed out that it had never happened, and I fully expect the same people to trot out the same myth in the throes of yet another EUbad frenzy.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Thereby increasing the need for military intervention to protect it.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Note the "cook in a bag" - so all the seasoning/herbs are already inside.
Rather a good way to cook some things. Some supermarkets offer that they will oven bag it for you at the fresh counter... works really well for fish. You can create a similar effect by wrapping in foil, of course.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Note the "cook in a bag" - so all the seasoning/herbs are already inside.
Rather a good way to cook some things. Some supermarkets offer that they will oven bag it for you at the fresh counter... works really well for fish. You can create a similar effect by wrapping in foil, of course.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
I thought someone showed a map on here a couple of weeks ago showing that was underway with a big cable coming from Morocco?
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Thereby increasing the need for military intervention to protect it.
That's one view. The other, which seems equally possible, is that by increasing the prosperity of those countries through such investments, there's a fair chance that we'll improve their political stability.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Indeed but we are towards the bottom on the ones that most people would say really matter - keeping people alive and making them better. For a state religion that is a poor result.
If we are tenth in the world on things I think that is fine. Not a complacent fine that does not seek to improve, but equally not a "what we have is dogshit", worse than "every single western nation", "underwhelming", or like "Scunthorpe town vs Chelsea" to pick a few comments from earlier posters in the thread.
We have a good but not world leading health system under massive pressure from covid, underfunding and demographics. None are quick or easy to solve.
Use a cricket analogy. If we are doing worse than Namibia then that would be disastrous. But if we are consistently bottom of the rankings of the Test playing nations then most of us would agree that is pretty shit.
And we do not have a good health system. We have a system that consistently fails to provide outcomes comparable to other similar countries in spite of spending comparable amounts of money.
That is a fundamental issue and one that must be addressed rather than continually referring to our system as 'world leading'.
No, it would be more like being tenth best in the world at football or at the Olympics, both of which are respectable. Only a few countries play cricket seriously, all countries have healthcare systems.
And this is why our health system will remain rubbish because too many people are blind to its failings and unwilling to accept the need for fundamental reform. The religion still holds sway sadly.
I am quite happy with fundamental reforms (depending on what they are of course, but agree change will be needed). I don't like the constant hyperbole of the UK being either world leading or dog shit. Such hyperbole actually stops proper discussion about how we can be better.
Proper discussion is pretty much impossible anyway given that so many people do believe the 'world leading' guff. And given the last 18 months and the canonisation of the NHS I see no prospect at all of any meaningful reform in my lifetime.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
The correct structure and level of funding of the NHS are a matter of opinion, but it is just ridiculous dogmatism to suggest that Brexit hasn't had an adverse effect of the performance of the NHS due to staffing issues.
Also, please stop putting words in my mouth. I've never suggested that the NHS might not be in need of reform, let alone been in denial about it. As it happens, I'm an admirer of the German system in particular, and I think we could learn a thing or two from the Germans.
And yet in the comment I was replying to you mentioned Brexit as being the cause of underfunding and understaffing without reference to any other long term structural issues. Not really surprising that I answered what you wrote rather than what you now claim to believe.
No, I didn't. I put Brexit in brackets after understaffing, implying that Brexit has contributed to understaffing. Which it has. I was talking specifically about the current particularly poor state of the NHS in response to Gollowgate's previous comment. I did not express an opinion either way on the structure of the NHS. Indeed, having lived in Germany of 10 years, I am well aware of how things could be better!
Maybe I’m naive… but how can beds be the bottleneck in elective surgery? Is a bed in which to recover not the lowest cost element of the process? Are operating theatres and surgeons really under-utilised for lack of beds? Even if beds are the primary constraint, is the NHS so incompetent that surgery is scheduled, and the process started, without a bed being ringfenced.
Because there’s no slack in the system at all, A&E admissions can and do take beds designated for routine surgery. So a bad car crash or a couple of heart attacks, can mean dozens of operations cancelled at short notice as the facilities and staff become occupied with the emergency.
Are the numbers of emergency admissions that unpredictable? I’m sure there are aspects of managing supply and demand in hospitals that are particularly challenging but the NHS seems to do particularly poorly if people are having surgery cancelled multiple times. Is the lack of slack in the system a consequence of the NHS model? If accidents resulted in substantial invoices going to insurance companies, would capacity exist to deal with them without screwing up non-emergency procedures?
That’s a really interesting question. There’s probably a lot of analysis you can do, but if I were to guess I’d say they routinely underestimate the number of emergency admissions, in the same way that airlines routinely overbook flights. They’ve probably got the burns unit on standby next weekend, for example, and probably don’t look forward to the first weekend of the local amateur football league or the day of a large motorsport meeting. If the NHS had to give you £10k for a cancelled routine operation, they’d likely schedule fewer of them and the waiting lists would be longer, that’s just the game they play.
The one thing that’s not usually mentioned about the NHS, is that UK healthcare spending per capita is actually quite low, compared to other countries with similar standards of living and demographics.
As a percentage of GDP, Swi, Ger, Fra, Swe, Can, Nor, UK, Netherlands, Australia, NZ are all within a 9.1-11.7 range with the UK at 10.2. It is a touch lower perhaps but quite similar. US an outlier at 16.8%
I think the latest official figure for Germany is 11.9% (2019, no doubt higher since because covid). 10.2% is the same ballpark, I guess, but 11.9 is almost 17% higher than 10.2. A 17% increase in NHS spending would make quite a big difference!
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Note the "cook in a bag" - so all the seasoning/herbs are already inside.
Rather a good way to cook some things. Some supermarkets offer that they will oven bag it for you at the fresh counter... works really well for fish. You can create a similar effect by wrapping in foil, of course.
Oven ready?
Ha
On a serious note - such things are a very good intermediate step between cooking yourself and reheating prepared meals. Anything that tempts people to cook....
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
I thought someone showed a map on here a couple of weeks ago showing that was underway with a big cable coming from Morocco?
That might well have been me. I don't know that anyone has yet signed the deal, but it does seem quite likely that it will happen.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
At least its generally defaced with graffiti. Near where my in-laws live in Canada there's a sign that generates particular outrage amongst the local residents so it is regularly defaced with bullet holes.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Thereby increasing the need for military intervention to protect it.
Only if you don't diversify supply. One link is bad. Lots of links are good.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Great, you might as well object to signs saying something was built with Lottery funding because hey, it comes from the lottery tickets you bought and didn't win with. Let's take it further and say that the government doesn't fund anything because it comes from your taxes. Only it doesn't start with you because you get that money from your employer. And they get it from their customers, who get it from their employers and so on.
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
One of the most frustrating things is that any attack on the NHS is taken as an attack on those working within it rather than on the politicians and civil servants and other vested interest organisations who make the decisions on how it is run. It is a ploy cleverly designed to ensure there can be no meaningful reform.
Yes, yes they are. They don't even have to open the bag. I guess some people might not want to touch/handle raw meat at all. Seems silly though
Actually it is popular with people who don't like cleaning their ovens. You cut open the bag at the end of cooking so there is no escape of juices of fat to get the interior dirty.
Cooking in the bag is quite different to cooking open in the oven. Closer to the old style "cooking in a closed crockpot that is a close fit round the food". The big benefit is preventing dryness.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
On the latter one, yes, and without a hint of realising that Aldi is a German company.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
One of the most frustrating things is that any attack on the NHS is taken as an attack on those working within it rather than on the politicians and civil servants and other vested interest organisations who make the decisions on how it is run. It is a ploy cleverly designed to ensure there can be no meaningful reform.
When I talk to doctors, I sometimes refer to the NHS as the National Healthcare prevention Service. This usually gets a wry laugh.
I had a discussion with a doctor at A&E a few weeks ago - he had an OR background as well - and he & I got into a very interesting conversation about how the system appears designed to stop him doing medical stuff.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
Maybe I’m naive… but how can beds be the bottleneck in elective surgery? Is a bed in which to recover not the lowest cost element of the process? Are operating theatres and surgeons really under-utilised for lack of beds? Even if beds are the primary constraint, is the NHS so incompetent that surgery is scheduled, and the process started, without a bed being ringfenced.
Because there’s no slack in the system at all, A&E admissions can and do take beds designated for routine surgery. So a bad car crash or a couple of heart attacks, can mean dozens of operations cancelled at short notice as the facilities and staff become occupied with the emergency.
Are the numbers of emergency admissions that unpredictable? I’m sure there are aspects of managing supply and demand in hospitals that are particularly challenging but the NHS seems to do particularly poorly if people are having surgery cancelled multiple times. Is the lack of slack in the system a consequence of the NHS model? If accidents resulted in substantial invoices going to insurance companies, would capacity exist to deal with them without screwing up non-emergency procedures?
That’s a really interesting question. There’s probably a lot of analysis you can do, but if I were to guess I’d say they routinely underestimate the number of emergency admissions, in the same way that airlines routinely overbook flights. They’ve probably got the burns unit on standby next weekend, for example, and probably don’t look forward to the first weekend of the local amateur football league or the day of a large motorsport meeting. If the NHS had to give you £10k for a cancelled routine operation, they’d likely schedule fewer of them and the waiting lists would be longer, that’s just the game they play.
The one thing that’s not usually mentioned about the NHS, is that UK healthcare spending per capita is actually quite low, compared to other countries with similar standards of living and demographics.
As a percentage of GDP, Swi, Ger, Fra, Swe, Can, Nor, UK, Netherlands, Australia, NZ are all within a 9.1-11.7 range with the UK at 10.2. It is a touch lower perhaps but quite similar. US an outlier at 16.8%
I think the latest official figure for Germany is 11.9% (2019, no doubt higher since because covid). 10.2% is the same ballpark, I guess, but 11.9 is almost 17% higher than 10.2. A 17% increase in NHS spending would make quite a big difference!
Per capita the difference would be even greater.
Germany has 25% higher population than the UK so actually I would have thought the GDP per capita spending is actually lower in Germany than the UK.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
You get that in Aldi? I have to go to a discreet little place I know in Shepherd Market.
Maybe I’m naive… but how can beds be the bottleneck in elective surgery? Is a bed in which to recover not the lowest cost element of the process? Are operating theatres and surgeons really under-utilised for lack of beds? Even if beds are the primary constraint, is the NHS so incompetent that surgery is scheduled, and the process started, without a bed being ringfenced.
Because there’s no slack in the system at all, A&E admissions can and do take beds designated for routine surgery. So a bad car crash or a couple of heart attacks, can mean dozens of operations cancelled at short notice as the facilities and staff become occupied with the emergency.
Are the numbers of emergency admissions that unpredictable? I’m sure there are aspects of managing supply and demand in hospitals that are particularly challenging but the NHS seems to do particularly poorly if people are having surgery cancelled multiple times. Is the lack of slack in the system a consequence of the NHS model? If accidents resulted in substantial invoices going to insurance companies, would capacity exist to deal with them without screwing up non-emergency procedures?
That’s a really interesting question. There’s probably a lot of analysis you can do, but if I were to guess I’d say they routinely underestimate the number of emergency admissions, in the same way that airlines routinely overbook flights. They’ve probably got the burns unit on standby next weekend, for example, and probably don’t look forward to the first weekend of the local amateur football league or the day of a large motorsport meeting. If the NHS had to give you £10k for a cancelled routine operation, they’d likely schedule fewer of them and the waiting lists would be longer, that’s just the game they play.
The one thing that’s not usually mentioned about the NHS, is that UK healthcare spending per capita is actually quite low, compared to other countries with similar standards of living and demographics.
As a percentage of GDP, Swi, Ger, Fra, Swe, Can, Nor, UK, Netherlands, Australia, NZ are all within a 9.1-11.7 range with the UK at 10.2. It is a touch lower perhaps but quite similar. US an outlier at 16.8%
I think the latest official figure for Germany is 11.9% (2019, no doubt higher since because covid). 10.2% is the same ballpark, I guess, but 11.9 is almost 17% higher than 10.2. A 17% increase in NHS spending would make quite a big difference!
Per capita the difference would be even greater.
Yes but Germany is at the top of the range, so "compared to other countries with similar standards" etc you need to take a basket, and do the comparisons from the same time periods.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
One of the most frustrating things is that any attack on the NHS is taken as an attack on those working within it rather than on the politicians and civil servants and other vested interest organisations who make the decisions on how it is run. It is a ploy cleverly designed to ensure there can be no meaningful reform.
Every nation has sacred cows.
The US has gun laws, France has official “colour blindness”, U.K. has, among other things, the NHS.
(Even NZ has oddities like it’s “no nuclear ships” policy and various neuralgias about colonialism.)
The US, France and the U.K. are also all convinced that they are unique and have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
Vercotti: Doug (takes a drink) Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.
2nd Interviewer: What did he do?
Vercotti: He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
I thought someone showed a map on here a couple of weeks ago showing that was underway with a big cable coming from Morocco?
That might well have been me. I don't know that anyone has yet signed the deal, but it does seem quite likely that it will happen.
The deal is done aiui, I think quite a few other European countries are interested in it too. I think it makes everyone a winner, brings jobs and investment to Morocco and protects it from turning into a failed state like Libya and we get reliable cheap electricity out of it. Hopefully it's the first of many deals such as this along with the proposed mega windfarm between the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands.
For the first time in a while it feels like we are taking non-greenhouse emissions based electricity generation seriously, it's a shame we're two decades late.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Great, you might as well object to signs saying something was built with Lottery funding because hey, it comes from the lottery tickets you bought and didn't win with. Let's take it further and say that the government doesn't fund anything because it comes from your taxes. Only it doesn't start with you because you get that money from your employer. And they get it from their customers, who get it from their employers and so on.
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
Um no. The basic premise is dishonest. If I take money from you against your will and then give it away claiming it came from me then that is dishonest.
Watching that Blair-Brown thing, Blair makes his infamous pledge to bring health spending up to the EU average —- but I don’t think it actually happened.
We are still a laggard behind France, Germany, Scandis etc - as far as I can tell.
Maybe the EU average got easier to attain once the East Europeans acceded.
Maybe I’m naive… but how can beds be the bottleneck in elective surgery? Is a bed in which to recover not the lowest cost element of the process? Are operating theatres and surgeons really under-utilised for lack of beds? Even if beds are the primary constraint, is the NHS so incompetent that surgery is scheduled, and the process started, without a bed being ringfenced.
Because there’s no slack in the system at all, A&E admissions can and do take beds designated for routine surgery. So a bad car crash or a couple of heart attacks, can mean dozens of operations cancelled at short notice as the facilities and staff become occupied with the emergency.
Are the numbers of emergency admissions that unpredictable? I’m sure there are aspects of managing supply and demand in hospitals that are particularly challenging but the NHS seems to do particularly poorly if people are having surgery cancelled multiple times. Is the lack of slack in the system a consequence of the NHS model? If accidents resulted in substantial invoices going to insurance companies, would capacity exist to deal with them without screwing up non-emergency procedures?
That’s a really interesting question. There’s probably a lot of analysis you can do, but if I were to guess I’d say they routinely underestimate the number of emergency admissions, in the same way that airlines routinely overbook flights. They’ve probably got the burns unit on standby next weekend, for example, and probably don’t look forward to the first weekend of the local amateur football league or the day of a large motorsport meeting. If the NHS had to give you £10k for a cancelled routine operation, they’d likely schedule fewer of them and the waiting lists would be longer, that’s just the game they play.
The one thing that’s not usually mentioned about the NHS, is that UK healthcare spending per capita is actually quite low, compared to other countries with similar standards of living and demographics.
As a percentage of GDP, Swi, Ger, Fra, Swe, Can, Nor, UK, Netherlands, Australia, NZ are all within a 9.1-11.7 range with the UK at 10.2. It is a touch lower perhaps but quite similar. US an outlier at 16.8%
I think the latest official figure for Germany is 11.9% (2019, no doubt higher since because covid). 10.2% is the same ballpark, I guess, but 11.9 is almost 17% higher than 10.2. A 17% increase in NHS spending would make quite a big difference!
Per capita the difference would be even greater.
Germany has 25% higher population than the UK so actually I would have thought the GDP per capita spending is actually lower in Germany than the UK.
Or is my maths up the spout?
The difference would be greater because Germany's GDP per capita is greater than that of the UK.
Not a good effort from Bangladesh today. Looks like the Saffirs will qualify.
Doesn't that mean beating Australia for second?
Plausibly Eng v SA will determine that.
Yes, there’s a few permutations, but the most likely one is that Australia finish second and qualify unless SA beat England, in which case SA finish second.
Do I turn up on Saturday and cheer for the Saffers? That’s one way to confuse the missus!
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Great, you might as well object to signs saying something was built with Lottery funding because hey, it comes from the lottery tickets you bought and didn't win with. Let's take it further and say that the government doesn't fund anything because it comes from your taxes. Only it doesn't start with you because you get that money from your employer. And they get it from their customers, who get it from their employers and so on.
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
Um no. The basic premise is dishonest. If I take money from you against your will and then give it away claiming it came from me then that is dishonest.
"against your will" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Great, you might as well object to signs saying something was built with Lottery funding because hey, it comes from the lottery tickets you bought and didn't win with. Let's take it further and say that the government doesn't fund anything because it comes from your taxes. Only it doesn't start with you because you get that money from your employer. And they get it from their customers, who get it from their employers and so on.
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
Um no. The basic premise is dishonest. If I take money from you against your will and then give it away claiming it came from me then that is dishonest.
"against your will" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
Would I voluntarily give money either directly or through my taxes to build a new hospital? Yes.
Would I voluntarily give that same amount of money to the EU so they can use half of it to pay for some of building the hospital and use the rest on other unrelated projects which I neither agree with or benefit from? No.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Post of the day, and it's still morning. Everything else is just partisan and ideological exaggeration, or complaints about partisan and ideological exaggeration.
No sorry. It is entirely legitimate to want "our" health service to improve. I don't give a stuff about other countries, I do care that the NHS today, because of years of structural inefficiencies, and coming up for two years of Covid, is now really not fit for purpose.
I also have no problem with league tables comparing our performance health-wise with our near and comparable neighbours. That is understandable and, as a fan in 2016 of us staying in the EU, what I did for eg theories of trade, etc.
I confess I don't really think I know what "not fit for purpose" means.
Does it mean "could be better"? If so, agreed.
Does it mean "completely broken"? If so, disagree. The NHS gives many good experiences and outcomes.
Does it mean "cannot continue in its current form"? Wellll, that's a trickier question to answer. Projecting into the future, healthcare needs will change. That might require a change in emphasis or organisation, but it might not.
You might not give a stuff about other countries, but comparison helps us know what's realistic and, for some definitions of "fit for purpose", an answer.
The studies I've seen indicate the NHS is both mediocre and value for money. We don't pay much and we get just a teeny bit more than we pay for. I am, pleased to say and touching wood, devoid of recent personal experience to burnish with anecdote.
I think one of the problems is that (thankfully perhaps) too few people have experienced health care systems in other parts of Europe and don't know how much better they are.
Yes, that's probably a factor. Also I think it's natural for gratitude/deference to feature in the healthcare space. It's not like a recreational service industry where you're a customer and likely to feel comfortable giving it the big 'I am'. You're a patient, there's something wrong with you and you're worried. Only these people, these doctors, can help, and they have an expertise you are in a little in awe of. They mostly do their very best for you and you can see that. On top of that comes nurses who are tending to your needs at this difficult and vulnerable time and this too creates a glow.
Ok, so if you're an assertive professional type, especially the sort with high self-value, then it's different. Then you won't be in awe of doctors and surgeons, since you're likely a lawyer or an accountant or some sort of scientist yourself, you probably think you could easily have done medicine if you'd wanted to, maybe you even thought about it before deciding on the career path you ended up deciding on, and you won't feel the gratitude/deference so much. You'll more think you're a customer and you'll be watching like a hawk for poor service, and when you see it, more than ready to call it out. But this is a small minority of people. Upshot: Healthcare gets higher satisfaction ratings due to this inbuilt behavioural bias than, objectively, it merits.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
I know this one of your new tunes, but it would be good to see some evidence.
My own anecdotal (evidence free) view is that we have lots of obese people and that the general public is a bit ignorant about preventative health.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
It's harder to complain when it's free, and most others aren't.
Up until the point where they cut the wrong leg off, obvs. Then a politely worded complaint might be reasonable.
That's the point. We have the idea that everything medical is free in a way that nothing else is. A one stop shop full of goodies without putting your hand in your pocket. Just remember your symptoms and they'll take it from there......GP's nurses ambulances hospitals whatever you need ....
But that was then......
You can hardly get an appointment to see a GP anymore. A&E has taken over and everyone knows what that Kafkaesque nightmare looks like.......It doesn't feel free like the police doesn't feel free because it doesn't feel like a service anymore
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
I know this one of your new tunes, but it would be good to see some evidence.
My own anecdotal (evidence free) view is that we have lots of obese people and that the general public is a bit ignorant about preventative health.
One of the issues is that Health Promotion (and Sickness Prevention) is a bit of a Cinderella. Lansley even took Health Promotion away from the NHS.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Great, you might as well object to signs saying something was built with Lottery funding because hey, it comes from the lottery tickets you bought and didn't win with. Let's take it further and say that the government doesn't fund anything because it comes from your taxes. Only it doesn't start with you because you get that money from your employer. And they get it from their customers, who get it from their employers and so on.
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
Um no. The basic premise is dishonest. If I take money from you against your will and then give it away claiming it came from me then that is dishonest.
"against your will" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
Would I voluntarily give money either directly or through my taxes to build a new hospital? Yes.
Would I voluntarily give that same amount of money to the EU so they can use half of it to pay for some of building the hospital and use the rest on other unrelated projects which I neither agree with or benefit from? No.
So that "against your will" is perfectly valid.
Well tax (in fact almost all money flow) isn't hypothecated like that. If it was, I would dearly like to ensure that nothing I pay ever makes it into your pocket, no matter how indirectly. Just on the basis of this stupid conversation. I can feel where this is going, it's going to end up with you saying "but all tax is theft" and me telling you you're an idiot, so let's cut it short before we get to that point. Last word is yours.
Mr. Walker, obesity's a massive (ahem) problem. It's not helped by bed-wetting over 'fat-shaming'.
Nobody gave a shit about shaming smokers. If people are heavily overweight that causes all kinds of health problems, but pointing out biological reality is now deemed to be an evil.
(As an aside, I often mention this but worth saying in case any parents with young kids read it: there are two types of obesity, hyperplastic and hypertropic. One means having bigger fat cells, the other more fat cells (adipocytes). Always forget which is which, but if you overfeed kids then you permanently raise their 'base' level of adipocytes and make it much harder for them to lose weight later on).
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
There are more distillers around now than in Hogarth's time!
Having your own brand of gin is pretty easy - I know a guy who started makings own. Now has a small business flogging it, from his flat. Gets it made to his receipe by a commercial outfit, IIRC.
When I was in Edinburgh, recently, it was gin everywhere... no ageing time, so instant return on investment...
Maybe I’m naive… but how can beds be the bottleneck in elective surgery? Is a bed in which to recover not the lowest cost element of the process? Are operating theatres and surgeons really under-utilised for lack of beds? Even if beds are the primary constraint, is the NHS so incompetent that surgery is scheduled, and the process started, without a bed being ringfenced.
Because there’s no slack in the system at all, A&E admissions can and do take beds designated for routine surgery. So a bad car crash or a couple of heart attacks, can mean dozens of operations cancelled at short notice as the facilities and staff become occupied with the emergency.
Are the numbers of emergency admissions that unpredictable? I’m sure there are aspects of managing supply and demand in hospitals that are particularly challenging but the NHS seems to do particularly poorly if people are having surgery cancelled multiple times. Is the lack of slack in the system a consequence of the NHS model? If accidents resulted in substantial invoices going to insurance companies, would capacity exist to deal with them without screwing up non-emergency procedures?
That’s a really interesting question. There’s probably a lot of analysis you can do, but if I were to guess I’d say they routinely underestimate the number of emergency admissions, in the same way that airlines routinely overbook flights. They’ve probably got the burns unit on standby next weekend, for example, and probably don’t look forward to the first weekend of the local amateur football league or the day of a large motorsport meeting. If the NHS had to give you £10k for a cancelled routine operation, they’d likely schedule fewer of them and the waiting lists would be longer, that’s just the game they play.
The one thing that’s not usually mentioned about the NHS, is that UK healthcare spending per capita is actually quite low, compared to other countries with similar standards of living and demographics.
As a percentage of GDP, Swi, Ger, Fra, Swe, Can, Nor, UK, Netherlands, Australia, NZ are all within a 9.1-11.7 range with the UK at 10.2. It is a touch lower perhaps but quite similar. US an outlier at 16.8%
I think the latest official figure for Germany is 11.9% (2019, no doubt higher since because covid). 10.2% is the same ballpark, I guess, but 11.9 is almost 17% higher than 10.2. A 17% increase in NHS spending would make quite a big difference!
Per capita the difference would be even greater.
Yes but Germany is at the top of the range, so "compared to other countries with similar standards" etc you need to take a basket, and do the comparisons from the same time periods.
True. More a response to those saying that Germany has better health care than the UK - which is only true in some respects, and spending is significantly higher.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
There are more distillers around now than in Hogarth's time!
Having your own brand of gin is pretty easy - I know a guy who started makings own. Now has a small business flogging it, from his flat. Gets it made to his receipe by a commercial outfit, IIRC.
When I was in Edinburgh, recently, it was gin everywhere... no ageing time, so instant return on investment...
A nephew has just joined a small company which is making gins to order, as well as their own.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I am not into defacing things nor bothered about labelling given I think the more info the better particularly when it comes to where our food originates. But the 'Built with EU Funding' was a particularly pernicious lie given it should have said 'Built with some of the UK money that we sent to the EU'.
Great, you might as well object to signs saying something was built with Lottery funding because hey, it comes from the lottery tickets you bought and didn't win with. Let's take it further and say that the government doesn't fund anything because it comes from your taxes. Only it doesn't start with you because you get that money from your employer. And they get it from their customers, who get it from their employers and so on.
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
Um no. The basic premise is dishonest. If I take money from you against your will and then give it away claiming it came from me then that is dishonest.
"against your will" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
Would I voluntarily give money either directly or through my taxes to build a new hospital? Yes.
Would I voluntarily give that same amount of money to the EU so they can use half of it to pay for some of building the hospital and use the rest on other unrelated projects which I neither agree with or benefit from? No.
So that "against your will" is perfectly valid.
Well tax (in fact almost all money flow) isn't hypothecated like that. If it was, I would dearly like to ensure that nothing I pay ever makes it into your pocket, no matter how indirectly. Just on the basis of this stupid conversation. I can feel where this is going, it's going to end up with you saying "but all tax is theft" and me telling you you're an idiot, so let's cut it short before we get to that point. Last word is yours.
Not at all. I agree with some level of taxation. I also agree with societal responsibility for those less fortunate than ourselves through the taxation system. So as usual you are wrong. Maybe we should have spent more on your education. I am all for improving the lot of those who are intellectually less fortunate than most.
But the point is that taxation within this country is spent by a Government on our behalf and part of the democratic settlement is that we accept that and can campaign to change aspects of it we don't like and, at the last resort, vote out those who make spending decisions we disagree with. None of that applies to the EU. Hence the reason it is dishonest for them to lay claims to spending using our money.
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Besides, progress has been made. People will now actually protest against environmental stuff done by Russia.
China has used the "it's all racism" thing a lot
The other issue here is that China isn't a monolith. Xi is a dictator. However, his power is not absolute. No dictator's power ever is - and his is not quite at the take-him-away-and-shoot-him-for-lols level.
There are various factions at various levels that need to be placated. The ASAT test thing was a very good illustration of this.
Right. And it's obviously not racist to protest here about things going on in China. It is, however and imo, frequently a displacement activity when it comes to climate change. Those loudest with "no point us doing this stuff because it's all China and they're laughing at us" tend to be folk who don't accept the scientific consensus, think it's nonsense or terribly overblown and mainly a vehicle for shouty lefties to emote and virtue signal.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Post of the day, and it's still morning. Everything else is just partisan and ideological exaggeration, or complaints about partisan and ideological exaggeration.
No sorry. It is entirely legitimate to want "our" health service to improve. I don't give a stuff about other countries, I do care that the NHS today, because of years of structural inefficiencies, and coming up for two years of Covid, is now really not fit for purpose.
I also have no problem with league tables comparing our performance health-wise with our near and comparable neighbours. That is understandable and, as a fan in 2016 of us staying in the EU, what I did for eg theories of trade, etc.
I confess I don't really think I know what "not fit for purpose" means.
Does it mean "could be better"? If so, agreed.
Does it mean "completely broken"? If so, disagree. The NHS gives many good experiences and outcomes.
Does it mean "cannot continue in its current form"? Wellll, that's a trickier question to answer. Projecting into the future, healthcare needs will change. That might require a change in emphasis or organisation, but it might not.
You might not give a stuff about other countries, but comparison helps us know what's realistic and, for some definitions of "fit for purpose", an answer.
The studies I've seen indicate the NHS is both mediocre and value for money. We don't pay much and we get just a teeny bit more than we pay for. I am, pleased to say and touching wood, devoid of recent personal experience to burnish with anecdote.
I think one of the problems is that (thankfully perhaps) too few people have experienced health care systems in other parts of Europe and don't know how much better they are.
Yes, that's probably a factor. Also I think it's natural for gratitude/deference to feature in the healthcare space. It's not like a recreational service industry where you're a customer and likely to feel comfortable giving it the big 'I am'. You're a patient, there's something wrong with you and you're worried. Only these people, these doctors, can help, and they have an expertise you are in a little in awe of. They mostly do their very best for you and you can see that. On top of that comes nurses who are tending to your needs at this difficult and vulnerable time and this too creates a glow.
Ok, so if you're an assertive professional type, especially the sort with high self-value, then it's different. Then you won't be in awe of doctors and surgeons, since you're likely a lawyer or an accountant or some sort of scientist yourself, you probably think you could easily have done medicine if you'd wanted to, maybe you even thought about it before deciding on the career path you ended up deciding on, and you won't feel the gratitude/deference so much. You'll more think you're a customer and you'll be watching like a hawk for poor service, and when you see it, more than ready to call it out. But this is a small minority of people. Upshot: Healthcare gets higher satisfaction ratings due to this inbuilt behavioural bias than, objectively, it merits.
Mr. kinabalu, if that caricature is aimed at me then I'd point out earlier today (perhaps in this thread) I did extol the virtues of renewables generally, while maintaining my dislike of wind.
Mike could have precised the thread header to just three words. "Burnham is overrated".
He is the only heavyweight Labour leadership contender though I could see having enough appeal in the RedWall to give a chance of a Labour majority if the government becomes unpopular (though he would probably also need gains in Scotland too).
Starmer and Reeves are too associated with the EUref2 campaign for that, though they might be able to get a hung parliament.
Rayner is too leftwing and associated with Corbyn still
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Besides, progress has been made. People will now actually protest against environmental stuff done by Russia.
China has used the "it's all racism" thing a lot
The other issue here is that China isn't a monolith. Xi is a dictator. However, his power is not absolute. No dictator's power ever is - and his is not quite at the take-him-away-and-shoot-him-for-lols level.
There are various factions at various levels that need to be placated. The ASAT test thing was a very good illustration of this.
Right. And it's obviously not racist to protest here about things going on in China. It is, however and imo, frequently a displacement activity when it comes to climate change. Those loudest with "no point us doing this stuff because it's all China and they're laughing at us" tend to be folk who don't accept the scientific consensus, think it's nonsense or terribly overblown and mainly a vehicle for shouty lefties to emote and virtue signal.
I think there is a genuine concern and annoyance amongst people from all sides of the debate that the UK and other western countries are being castigated for not doing enough when they have done a huge amount and at considerable cost and they know that it won't make any real difference for as long as the big polluters choose not to get on board. I agree with the leading by example - for example - and don't think it should be used as an excuse not to continue to do stuff but then being told you are not doing enough after all the effort that has been put in and in the knowledge it will have, at best, a marginal effect compared to other countries, can be understandably frustrating.
Mr. Walker, obesity's a massive (ahem) problem. It's not helped by bed-wetting over 'fat-shaming'.
Nobody gave a shit about shaming smokers. If people are heavily overweight that causes all kinds of health problems, but pointing out biological reality is now deemed to be an evil.
(As an aside, I often mention this but worth saying in case any parents with young kids read it: there are two types of obesity, hyperplastic and hypertropic. One means having bigger fat cells, the other more fat cells (adipocytes). Always forget which is which, but if you overfeed kids then you permanently raise their 'base' level of adipocytes and make it much harder for them to lose weight later on).
I’m not sure about fat-shaming.
Rather, I think there’s a general social view that a bit of obesity is “OK”. In my view, it’s a form of self harm via food.
I have put on weight steadily since the birth of my first daughter and have decided to lose it all to coincide with my move to New York.
I’ve lost two stone since August.
But I have the cultural, intellectual and financial resources to help me do that…my doctor’s had nothing to do with it.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
Yes. It's a shame the French have been threatening to turn off the interconnecter though. Undermines confidence in the concept.
Three do seem to be two different futures opening up, one with lots of local battery storage alongside intermittent generation, enabling more people and businesses to opt-out of the grid, and another where grids expand to a [multi-]continental scale so that the intermittency is averaged out.
It's not clear to me whether we'll end up with more grid or more storage.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Its very difficult not to. I haven't personally had a run-in with XR or Insulate Britain yet, but doing so must make you want to go and buy a massive diesel and then drive it home and put the central heating on full blast while you research flights to somewhere pointless. If you're trying to persuade people of something, pissing them off mightily is a poor way to go about it. They are actively hindering their cause.
On which subject, it seems Insulate Britain have come to Greater Manchester today to block junction 6 of the M56 - presumably so they can all get home nice and quickly afterwards to Hale and Altrincham and Wilmslow. *takes class warrior hat off*
There's a notion they're all very middle class but I'm suspicious of that claim because it always seems to be made about protesters for "progressive" causes.
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Besides, progress has been made. People will now actually protest against environmental stuff done by Russia.
China has used the "it's all racism" thing a lot
The other issue here is that China isn't a monolith. Xi is a dictator. However, his power is not absolute. No dictator's power ever is - and his is not quite at the take-him-away-and-shoot-him-for-lols level.
There are various factions at various levels that need to be placated. The ASAT test thing was a very good illustration of this.
Right. And it's obviously not racist to protest here about things going on in China. It is, however and imo, frequently a displacement activity when it comes to climate change. Those loudest with "no point us doing this stuff because it's all China and they're laughing at us" tend to be folk who don't accept the scientific consensus, think it's nonsense or terribly overblown and mainly a vehicle for shouty lefties to emote and virtue signal.
I am not sure what people think China thinks. China has scientists (western trained scientists, if that's a factor) who presumably can and do draw their own conclusions about what the climate is doing, and is the world leader by a country mile in inventing, manufacturing and deploying renewables. Yes, they need to burn coal and make steel, but they have given the 2060 commitment which is not obviously false. Their non-attendance merely reduces by , what, 50 the number of jets piling in to Scotland, and sends the message that the FLSOJ™ is not worth bothering with. Hard to argue with.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Probably some would, yes. You sometimes see "build with EU funding" signs defaced. You also get Scottish independence supporters freaking out about the union flag on cauliflower wrappings and so on. It's all so fucking pointless.
I think this might be one of those Scots, from that article;
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
Depends on how threatening the person holding it is!
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Almost certainly yes. I actually assumed it was Brexit types up in arms about this, objecting to the EU labelling. It's hard to keep track of who is outraged and why these days.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
Yes. It's a shame the French have been threatening to turn off the interconnecter though. Undermines confidence in the concept.
Three do seem to be two different futures opening up, one with lots of local battery storage alongside intermittent generation, enabling more people and businesses to opt-out of the grid, and another where grids expand to a [multi-]continental scale so that the intermittency is averaged out.
It's not clear to me whether we'll end up with more grid or more storage.
I would hope it is the localism route backed up by a national grid primarily for emergencies. Things like the connectors are a good idea as a means of improving connectiveness (obviously) and getting access to resources we don't have here. But I am concerned about both the reliability of them and the transmission losses. Local nukes, wind power and solar, tidal and geothermal where appropriate, with local storage backed up by a national grid for emergencies seems the grown up way to do things.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
Does NZ get better results?
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
Does NZ get better results?
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
It would be a bad idea even if they were not distressingly incompetent. I am sure they will still be talking about localism whilst removing it from more aspects of our lives.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
Yes. It's a shame the French have been threatening to turn off the interconnecter though. Undermines confidence in the concept.
Three do seem to be two different futures opening up, one with lots of local battery storage alongside intermittent generation, enabling more people and businesses to opt-out of the grid, and another where grids expand to a [multi-]continental scale so that the intermittency is averaged out.
It's not clear to me whether we'll end up with more grid or more storage.
More of both. The numerous North Sea wind developments are likely to give impetus to a genuine pan European grid - and those interconnects won't be subject to French whim (if that matters).
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
Does NZ get better results?
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
On New Zealand, yes. Only just but they are better as far as clinical outcomes goes and also on avoidable deaths. And they spend about 1% of GDP less than we do.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
Does NZ get better results?
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
It would be a bad idea even if they were not distressingly incompetent. I am sure they will still be talking about localism whilst removing it from more aspects of our lives.
For clarity I was talking about the NZ government. (Since it is surely ambiguous of me to talk about distressingly incompetent governments).
Having spent the first term failing at every single policy initiative, they have now decided to try to centralise the hell out of everything presumably so that ministers can dictate policy success somehow.
Mr. Walker, obesity's a massive (ahem) problem. It's not helped by bed-wetting over 'fat-shaming'.
Nobody gave a shit about shaming smokers. If people are heavily overweight that causes all kinds of health problems, but pointing out biological reality is now deemed to be an evil.
(As an aside, I often mention this but worth saying in case any parents with young kids read it: there are two types of obesity, hyperplastic and hypertropic. One means having bigger fat cells, the other more fat cells (adipocytes). Always forget which is which, but if you overfeed kids then you permanently raise their 'base' level of adipocytes and make it much harder for them to lose weight later on).
I’m not sure about fat-shaming.
Rather, I think there’s a general social view that a bit of obesity is “OK”. In my view, it’s a form of self harm via food.
I have put on weight steadily since the birth of my first daughter and have decided to lose it all to coincide with my move to New York.
I’ve lost two stone since August.
But I have the cultural, intellectual and financial resources to help me do that…my doctor’s had nothing to do with it.
Excuse me asking but how are you coping with private health care over there? Is it something affordable or is it a constant shadow over your head?
Mr. Walker, there are definitely degrees, and risks the other way too, but the ridiculous way some people have taken 'body positivity' to include morbid obesity that brings with it serious health risks (not least being more at risk from COVID-19) is not great.
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Besides, progress has been made. People will now actually protest against environmental stuff done by Russia.
China has used the "it's all racism" thing a lot
The other issue here is that China isn't a monolith. Xi is a dictator. However, his power is not absolute. No dictator's power ever is - and his is not quite at the take-him-away-and-shoot-him-for-lols level.
There are various factions at various levels that need to be placated. The ASAT test thing was a very good illustration of this.
Right. And it's obviously not racist to protest here about things going on in China. It is, however and imo, frequently a displacement activity when it comes to climate change. Those loudest with "no point us doing this stuff because it's all China and they're laughing at us" tend to be folk who don't accept the scientific consensus, think it's nonsense or terribly overblown and mainly a vehicle for shouty lefties to emote and virtue signal.
I think there is a genuine concern and annoyance amongst people from all sides of the debate that the UK and other western countries are being castigated for not doing enough when they have done a huge amount and at considerable cost and they know that it won't make any real difference for as long as the big polluters choose not to get on board. I agree with the leading by example - for example - and don't think it should be used as an excuse not to continue to do stuff but then being told you are not doing enough after all the effort that has been put in and in the knowledge it will have, at best, a marginal effect compared to other countries, can be understandably frustrating.
What about the moral force argument? - that the West has got rich by developing/polluting, has enjoyed the fruits of this, therefore must take the lead on the change and should help rather than lecture those who have not made this journey and are thus much poorer. This argument resonates with me quite a lot.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
Does NZ get better results?
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
It would be a bad idea even if they were not distressingly incompetent. I am sure they will still be talking about localism whilst removing it from more aspects of our lives.
For clarity I was talking about the NZ government. (Since it is surely ambiguous of me to talk about distressingly incompetent governments).
Having spent the first term failing at every single policy initiative, they have now decided to try to centralise the hell out of everything presumably so that ministers can dictate policy success somehow.
Ah. I am sure you can understand my error. distressingly incompetent seems a very accurate description of the current UK administration. I am surprised about NZ though.
Surgery cancelled for a 3rd time, as I was about to head down to theatre. No beds.
Sigh.
Brexit? Covid? or just too long with a Tory government?
It feels like an inappropriate time to tell you of my experience with the French health service but to say it's comparing Chelsea with Scunthorpe Town is an understatement.
With the notable exception of the USA, every single Western nation has a better healthcare system than the NHS.
That's why we had to Brexit. People were starting to notice. A friend of mine has just had wait of 12 hours at A&E and there's nothing he could do. He even has medical insurance so it wasn't a question that money could have solved. You'll know from Dubai but strangely people here think what we have is the best in the world!
What we have is dogshit
Starved of funds and staff (thanks, Brexit), and hammered by Covid. So not surprising that service is underwhelming.
Nope the system has been shit since long before Brexit was ever dreamed of. In terms of doing its actual job and both preventing people getting ill and helping them get better it has been close to the bottom of the rankings for decades. Blaming Brexit is just you in denial about how badly it needs complete reform.
Ranked 10th in one survey, 13th in another. It seems the UK has to be perceived to be the best or worst at things for some reason, when we are actually typically quite middling but above average.
Its tenth in the UN survey because of what is being measured. If you are measuring things like affordability of medicines or paperwork efficiency then we rank well. But on the things that actually matter like clinical outcomes we are down close to the bottom.
Bottom of what? Globally would seem incredible? Which rankings are you referring to?
The commonly cited overview is the Commonwealth Fund report. It draws on data from the WHO and OECD and rates 11 first world countries. It has been a standard for many years and was cited very widely by both politicians and the media when its last report came out in 2017. It has now reported again and I provided a link earlier in the thread.
The reason it is useful is because it breaks down its report so you can see how organisations like the WHO are ranking. This shows that although the UK does okay in non clinical measures, it consistently performs very badly in clinical outcomes and prevention against the other 10 ranked countries.
As always, just citing stuff like the WHO numbers is no real measure unless you break them down as this report does.
That is entirely consistent with us being about 10th-13th in the world.
The countries that report is looking at are ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th and 22nd in the world on the LPI rankings. The missing ones are small nations. So the report is saying on some specific outcome measures we are near the bottom of the top 11 big countries in the world, on other measures we are better.
Prevention is the key weakness, ISTM. Our system contains costs by rationing treatment in the short term, and turning people away (or making them wait) if they aren’t in need of unavoidable intervention. A private-based system has more incentive to offer earlier or preventative interventions that might save an expensive operation later, with the downside that people can end up getting these interventions who may not have needed them.
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
Not exactly true though. The Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand all spend less than us as a % of GDP and get better results. We maybe need to look at what they are doing and start adopting some of their systems.
Does NZ get better results?
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
On New Zealand, yes. Only just but they are better as far as clinical outcomes goes and also on avoidable deaths. And they spend about 1% of GDP less than we do.
Again, purely anecdotally, one knows who one’s doctor is in NZ.
I have no idea who my doctor is here.
I recently had to scam my clinic’s online system (designed it seems to prevent any appointments at all) into giving me a mole check, which has led to a surgical removal booked for later this month.
Mr. Walker, obesity's a massive (ahem) problem. It's not helped by bed-wetting over 'fat-shaming'.
Nobody gave a shit about shaming smokers. If people are heavily overweight that causes all kinds of health problems, but pointing out biological reality is now deemed to be an evil.
(As an aside, I often mention this but worth saying in case any parents with young kids read it: there are two types of obesity, hyperplastic and hypertropic. One means having bigger fat cells, the other more fat cells (adipocytes). Always forget which is which, but if you overfeed kids then you permanently raise their 'base' level of adipocytes and make it much harder for them to lose weight later on).
I’m not sure about fat-shaming.
Rather, I think there’s a general social view that a bit of obesity is “OK”. In my view, it’s a form of self harm via food.
I have put on weight steadily since the birth of my first daughter and have decided to lose it all to coincide with my move to New York.
I’ve lost two stone since August.
But I have the cultural, intellectual and financial resources to help me do that…my doctor’s had nothing to do with it.
Excuse me asking but how are you coping with private health care over there? Is it something affordable or is it a constant shadow over your head?
Haven’t moved yet.
I think it’s 95% covered in the health insurance that comes in the employment contract.
I am fearing “co-payments”, but my wife already insists on going to Harley Street for certain kid’s stuff so perhaps I won’t notice too much of a difference.
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Besides, progress has been made. People will now actually protest against environmental stuff done by Russia.
China has used the "it's all racism" thing a lot
The other issue here is that China isn't a monolith. Xi is a dictator. However, his power is not absolute. No dictator's power ever is - and his is not quite at the take-him-away-and-shoot-him-for-lols level.
There are various factions at various levels that need to be placated. The ASAT test thing was a very good illustration of this.
Right. And it's obviously not racist to protest here about things going on in China. It is, however and imo, frequently a displacement activity when it comes to climate change. Those loudest with "no point us doing this stuff because it's all China and they're laughing at us" tend to be folk who don't accept the scientific consensus, think it's nonsense or terribly overblown and mainly a vehicle for shouty lefties to emote and virtue signal.
I think there is a genuine concern and annoyance amongst people from all sides of the debate that the UK and other western countries are being castigated for not doing enough when they have done a huge amount and at considerable cost and they know that it won't make any real difference for as long as the big polluters choose not to get on board. I agree with the leading by example - for example - and don't think it should be used as an excuse not to continue to do stuff but then being told you are not doing enough after all the effort that has been put in and in the knowledge it will have, at best, a marginal effect compared to other countries, can be understandably frustrating.
What about the moral force argument? - that the West has got rich by developing/polluting, has enjoyed the fruits of this, therefore now must take the lead on this and should help rather than lecture those who have not made this journey and are thus much poorer. This argument resonates with me quite a lot.
To me that is just virtue signalling on a grand scale. If what matters is reducing emissions then all the moral force in the world is not going to help if the big polluters don't match us. We could literally bankrupt our countries for no real improvement at all. And most of these countries don't have the same guilt complex that seems to infect much of the West. They are simply concerned with what is best for themselves.
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Almost certainly yes. I actually assumed it was Brexit types up in arms about this, objecting to the EU labelling. It's hard to keep track of who is outraged and why these days.
Mr. Walker, there are definitely degrees, and risks the other way too, but the ridiculous way some people have taken 'body positivity' to include morbid obesity that brings with it serious health risks (not least being more at risk from COVID-19) is not great.
Hilariously(?), a “fat rights” academic in NZ cited discrimination during the recent vax programme as the needles weren’t long enough given the thickness of her arm.
That kind of supports your point, but I don’t believe this is typical.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
You get the “Chomage” which is the unemployment benefit. Used to be 90% of your salary up to CHF10,000 per month and you have to still pay your insurances out of it.
The unemployment benefit system is effectively contributory so you have to pay an “insurance” each month for at least 18 months (I think it was) before you can claim. If you can’t do this there is a state back-up but only for special circumstances.
Ah, so now I do have an NHS anecdote to contribute and it's hot off the press. My wife who's 8 years my junior has been invited for a flu jab but I've heard zip. The system is clearly Not Fit For Purpose!
Surely all pepper is non-EU? Unless it's grown in Guadeloupe or somewhere. And salt is just salt, I can't imagine it matters much where it comes from. This seems like one of the more pointless skirmishes in the Brexit culture war. Also, why buy it ready-seasoned anyway? Are people really that lazy?
Stupid thing to put on the label (the NON EU bit), but I can't work out why it bothers FBPErs so much - people threatening lifetime boycotts of Morrisons if this is real.. I mean FFS, it's food packaging.
If Aldi were selling French Coq in EU flag packaging, would Brexit supporters threaten to boycott them?
Almost certainly yes. I actually assumed it was Brexit types up in arms about this, objecting to the EU labelling. It's hard to keep track of who is outraged and why these days.
Apparently these are on sale in Aldi in Ireland!
Do they have a deliberate strategy of trolling their customers into generating viral social media content?
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
Switzerland has got a fully insurance based system with subsidised access for low income people. Switzerland doesn't have any concept of long term unemployment or living off the welfare state so ultimately the state doesn't need to fund healthcare and welfare for the "won't work" millions we have in the UK claiming ill health.
What happens if a Swiss person can't work then? How do they get by?
You get the “Chomage” which is the unemployment benefit. Used to be 90% of your salary up to CHF10,000 per month and you have to still pay your insurances out of it.
The unemployment benefit system is effectively contributory so you have to pay an “insurance” each month for at least 18 months (I think it was) before you can claim. If you can’t do this there is a state back-up but only for special circumstances.
I’m assuming it hasn’t changed….
ALV (income protection insurance) is 70% of insured income, I think.
Mr. Walker, there are definitely degrees, and risks the other way too, but the ridiculous way some people have taken 'body positivity' to include morbid obesity that brings with it serious health risks (not least being more at risk from COVID-19) is not great.
Hilariously(?), a “fat rights” academic in NZ cited discrimination during the recent vax programme as the needles weren’t long enough given the thickness of her arm.
That kind of supports your point, but I don’t believe this is typical.
Worth noting here that NZ has a severe obesity crisis. It has highest rate of obesity in the G20 after the US AIUI.
Mr. Walker, there are definitely degrees, and risks the other way too, but the ridiculous way some people have taken 'body positivity' to include morbid obesity that brings with it serious health risks (not least being more at risk from COVID-19) is not great.
Hilariously(?), a “fat rights” academic in NZ cited discrimination during the recent vax programme as the needles weren’t long enough given the thickness of her arm.
That kind of supports your point, but I don’t believe this is typical.
Worth noting here that NZ has a severe obesity crisis. It has highest rate of obesity in the G20 after the US AIUI.
Yep.
I would guess Pakeha obesity rates to be a bit better than the U.K. average, but Maori & Pacific Island rates are much higher.
We (NZers) drive too much, don’t walk enough, and eat too many carbs / dairy.
As predicted last week, first Daily Mail article counting the private jets - 52 in Glasgow yesterday, including four that flew from Glasgow to Prestwick empty to park, as GLA was full. Four planes for Biden, landing in Edinburgh and going in a 85-vehicle convoy to Glasgow.
Yes the crazy brigade of climate activists are saying we shouldn't fly, but as far as I'm aware Biden is not amongst them.
If as I believe (and I think you do too) the future is dependant upon switching to clean technology aviation and not abandoning aviation, then what is wrong with the US President and his entourage flying to a summit designed to help us get there?
Yes, it is typical denialism-lite. To not take what is going with climate change seriously because some attendees are less than perfect. Leaders always have camp followers.
Though I do think its a valid argument to use with the crazies who do follow these events, the Gretas of this world, who are adamant we're not doing enough and that we shouldn't be travelling and this needs to all happen overnight.
Ok, you first.
Sure, Greta can be annoyingly monomaniac on the subject of climate change, but consciousness raising and getting engagement with the topic is a very useful role. No one expects a teenager to have all the answers, including herself, but she has done a sterling job of raising publicity around the world.
Yes. Less than a decade ago, we still had politicians like Boris Johnson cracking jokes about windmills and Anne-Marie Trevelyan denying the existence of climate change as well as a host of right-wing commentators making fun of "loony left" proposals to deal with global warming. Now, thanks in large part to campaigners like Greta, those who dismiss the seriousness of climate change are very much in the minority.
That minority includes China.
Perhaps Greta might like to go to China.
A country which is planning to build another 43 coal fired power stations to go with the 1000+ it already has (over half of the entire world's):
Likewise all the XR and Insulate types might like to go to the Chinese embassy for their next stunt.
I suspect they wont.
That minority doesn't include China, really. From what I've read, China thinks climate change is a very serious issue. One may think that its progress on tackling it is too slow, but I see no evidence of climate change denialism. Given its stage of economic development and its population size, it's hardly surprising that it's behind most of the West in reducing emissions (although apparently China's emissions per person are around half of those in the USA).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if, 20 or so years down the line, Chinese technology makes a significant contribution to tackling global climate change.
Richard's point was that the XR types won't protest against China, not that China doesn't take climate change seriously. As this BBC article highlights, when it raised the same question to XR types:
They may irritate at times but I'm not sure focusing on climate activists rather than the climate is the way to go.
Besides, progress has been made. People will now actually protest against environmental stuff done by Russia.
China has used the "it's all racism" thing a lot
The other issue here is that China isn't a monolith. Xi is a dictator. However, his power is not absolute. No dictator's power ever is - and his is not quite at the take-him-away-and-shoot-him-for-lols level.
There are various factions at various levels that need to be placated. The ASAT test thing was a very good illustration of this.
Right. And it's obviously not racist to protest here about things going on in China. It is, however and imo, frequently a displacement activity when it comes to climate change. Those loudest with "no point us doing this stuff because it's all China and they're laughing at us" tend to be folk who don't accept the scientific consensus, think it's nonsense or terribly overblown and mainly a vehicle for shouty lefties to emote and virtue signal.
I am not sure what people think China thinks. China has scientists (western trained scientists, if that's a factor) who presumably can and do draw their own conclusions about what the climate is doing, and is the world leader by a country mile in inventing, manufacturing and deploying renewables. Yes, they need to burn coal and make steel, but they have given the 2060 commitment which is not obviously false. Their non-attendance merely reduces by , what, 50 the number of jets piling in to Scotland, and sends the message that the FLSOJ™ is not worth bothering with. Hard to argue with.
I actually think it would have been good if they'd come but otherwise, yes. They are taking climate change seriously - clearly they are - and they aren't scientific illiterates who don't know what they're doing. And it's imo a bit tin-eared not to recognize that they are down the curve from us on ascent to prosperity and have a billion people's material aspirations to meet. My negativity about China is purely on human rights. I don't care one iota about them catching us up on living standards or about them challenging and overhauling the USA as a superpower.
Also re: obesity. For all that I am a fan of @NickPalmer , I'm fairly shocked and disappointed about his attitude to food. It's worrying enough that a former MP and minister has never bothered to learn to cook. It's more worrying still that a guy who has devoted much of his life to the food and farming sector (and doing great work therein) eats mostly ready meals. Food in a packet is full of shite.
Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.
Mr. Walker, there are definitely degrees, and risks the other way too, but the ridiculous way some people have taken 'body positivity' to include morbid obesity that brings with it serious health risks (not least being more at risk from COVID-19) is not great.
Hilariously(?), a “fat rights” academic in NZ cited discrimination during the recent vax programme as the needles weren’t long enough given the thickness of her arm.
That kind of supports your point, but I don’t believe this is typical.
Worth noting here that NZ has a severe obesity crisis. It has highest rate of obesity in the G20 after the US AIUI.
Yep.
I would guess Pakeha obesity rates to be a bit better than the U.K. average, but Maori & Pacific Island rates are much higher.
We (NZers) drive too much, don’t walk enough, and eat too many carbs / dairy.
One of my main beefs (excuse the pun) with the country is its structural reliance on the car. For all that it promotes itself as a sporty country with a focus on health and well-being, it's often impossible to buy fresh fruit and vegetables in many towns or find even a single decent restaurant – and even if you can find either it usually requires getting in a car to do so. I found the endless driving and lack of good food utterly tiresome when I toured. It lets down what is a beautiful country.
Mr. L, tidal (and solar) is intermittent but highly predictable which makes management much easier.
Wind is far more random which makes it more difficult. And solar panels tend not to massacre wildlife.
Solar panels require a lot of sunlight to be price competitive with offshore wind. The UK isn't a country that can pursue solar for anything significant.
It can if it buys it from Morocco.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
Yes. It's a shame the French have been threatening to turn off the interconnecter though. Undermines confidence in the concept.
Three do seem to be two different futures opening up, one with lots of local battery storage alongside intermittent generation, enabling more people and businesses to opt-out of the grid, and another where grids expand to a [multi-]continental scale so that the intermittency is averaged out.
It's not clear to me whether we'll end up with more grid or more storage.
More of both. The numerous North Sea wind developments are likely to give impetus to a genuine pan European grid - and those interconnects won't be subject to French whim (if that matters).
Yes I think there's finally some understanding that we need more of everything. The North Sea wind farms look like they will produce a lot of peak power and each of the nations involved will be able to store that overproduction in some kind of battery, whether it's a Tesla style chemical one or something more like a compressed air battery we need to figure out. I think the French are going to bitterly regret their current threats over cutting off energy supplies. All it's done is accelerate the current UK energy independence drive and diversification away from the French interconnect. They will have surplus power and no one to sell it to because all of their neighbours with energy deficits are investing in the offshore wind islands.
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Avoids food waste and saves time, and if you pick your moment often for very little more.
Which illustrates the larger point that an extended grid network across Europe (and N Africa) would make both solar and wind (and anything else) far more reliable as an energy source.
Rather a good way to cook some things. Some supermarkets offer that they will oven bag it for you at the fresh counter... works really well for fish. You can create a similar effect by wrapping in foil, of course.
The other, which seems equally possible, is that by increasing the prosperity of those countries through such investments, there's a fair chance that we'll improve their political stability.
Per capita the difference would be even greater.
On a serious note - such things are a very good intermediate step between cooking yourself and reheating prepared meals. Anything that tempts people to cook....
I don't know that anyone has yet signed the deal, but it does seem quite likely that it will happen.
I’ve generally found it bureaucratic, badly-maintained, incurious, but staffed by genuine heroes and there when needed.
I don’t know how it compares globally, but coincidentally I was looking at “perceptions of healthcare quality” across the OECD, and the U.K. tends to come lower down.
France and Switzerland seem to be at the top.
We seem to have given up on reform since Lansley’s ill-fated measures - the only solution is now just to funnel cash into it.
https://northsealink.com etc etc
I think everything is funded by the Twix I bought in Inverness in 1991 and I want signs up EVERYWHERE acknowledging my contribution.
One customer described the union-flag on Mornflake porridge oats as “very unpleasant and quite intimidating”
Intimidating?!?
How can someone be intimidated by a cereal box?
I had a discussion with a doctor at A&E a few weeks ago - he had an OR background as well - and he & I got into a very interesting conversation about how the system appears designed to stop him doing medical stuff.
Or is my maths up the spout?
Plausibly Eng v SA will determine that.
The US has gun laws, France has official “colour blindness”, U.K. has, among other things, the NHS.
(Even NZ has oddities like it’s “no nuclear ships” policy and various neuralgias about colonialism.)
The US, France and the U.K. are also all convinced that they are unique and have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.
You see that a lot on here.
Vercotti: Doug (takes a drink) Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.
2nd Interviewer: What did he do?
Vercotti: He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious.
For the first time in a while it feels like we are taking non-greenhouse emissions based electricity generation seriously, it's a shame we're two decades late.
We are still a laggard behind France, Germany, Scandis etc - as far as I can tell.
Maybe the EU average got easier to attain once the East Europeans acceded.
Do I turn up on Saturday and cheer for the Saffers? That’s one way to confuse the missus!
Would I voluntarily give that same amount of money to the EU so they can use half of it to pay for some of building the hospital and use the rest on other unrelated projects which I neither agree with or benefit from? No.
So that "against your will" is perfectly valid.
Ok, so if you're an assertive professional type, especially the sort with high self-value, then it's different. Then you won't be in awe of doctors and surgeons, since you're likely a lawyer or an accountant or some sort of scientist yourself, you probably think you could easily have done medicine if you'd wanted to, maybe you even thought about it before deciding on the career path you ended up deciding on, and you won't feel the gratitude/deference so much. You'll more think you're a customer and you'll be watching like a hawk for poor service, and when you see it, more than ready to call it out. But this is a small minority of people. Upshot: Healthcare gets higher satisfaction ratings due to this inbuilt behavioural bias than, objectively, it merits.
My own anecdotal (evidence free) view is that we have lots of obese people and that the general public is a bit ignorant about preventative health.
But that was then......
You can hardly get an appointment to see a GP anymore. A&E has taken over and everyone knows what that Kafkaesque nightmare looks like.......It doesn't feel free like the police doesn't feel free because it doesn't feel like a service anymore
Nobody gave a shit about shaming smokers. If people are heavily overweight that causes all kinds of health problems, but pointing out biological reality is now deemed to be an evil.
(As an aside, I often mention this but worth saying in case any parents with young kids read it: there are two types of obesity, hyperplastic and hypertropic. One means having bigger fat cells, the other more fat cells (adipocytes). Always forget which is which, but if you overfeed kids then you permanently raise their 'base' level of adipocytes and make it much harder for them to lose weight later on).
When I was in Edinburgh, recently, it was gin everywhere... no ageing time, so instant return on investment...
The real miracle with the NHS is that when you add up all the money we spend - most of it through the NHS plus what goes through private healthcare - we are getting average results for remarkably little compared to other developed countries.
But the point is that taxation within this country is spent by a Government on our behalf and part of the democratic settlement is that we accept that and can campaign to change aspects of it we don't like and, at the last resort, vote out those who make spending decisions we disagree with. None of that applies to the EU. Hence the reason it is dishonest for them to lay claims to spending using our money.
Starmer and Reeves are too associated with the EUref2 campaign for that, though they might be able to get a hung parliament.
Rayner is too leftwing and associated with Corbyn still
Rather, I think there’s a general social view that a bit of obesity is “OK”. In my view, it’s a form of self harm via food.
I have put on weight steadily since the birth of my first daughter and have decided to lose it all to coincide with my move to New York.
I’ve lost two stone since August.
But I have the cultural, intellectual and financial resources to help me do that…my doctor’s had nothing to do with it.
Three do seem to be two different futures opening up, one with lots of local battery storage alongside intermittent generation, enabling more people and businesses to opt-out of the grid, and another where grids expand to a [multi-]continental scale so that the intermittency is averaged out.
It's not clear to me whether we'll end up with more grid or more storage.
https://www.owenjones.tv/video/insulate-britain-face-down-their-critics/
There's a notion they're all very middle class but I'm suspicious of that claim because it always seems to be made about protesters for "progressive" causes.
I actually assumed it was Brexit types up in arms about this, objecting to the EU labelling. It's hard to keep track of who is outraged and why these days.
Maori and Pacific Island outcomes are probably not great.
Broadly speaking the system is the same as the NHS, albeit if you are not in the lower deciles you have to pay a modest fee for each doctor’s visit.
The current government - who are distressingly incompetent - are currently trying to shut down all the local health boards to take power back into the centre.
The numerous North Sea wind developments are likely to give impetus to a genuine pan European grid - and those interconnects won't be subject to French whim (if that matters).
(Since it is surely ambiguous of me to talk about distressingly incompetent governments).
Having spent the first term failing at every single policy initiative, they have now decided to try to centralise the hell out of everything presumably so that ministers can dictate policy success somehow.
I have no idea who my doctor is here.
I recently had to scam my clinic’s online system (designed it seems to prevent any appointments at all) into giving me a mole check, which has led to a surgical removal booked for later this month.
I think it’s 95% covered in the health insurance that comes in the employment contract.
I am fearing “co-payments”, but my wife already insists on going to Harley Street for certain kid’s stuff so perhaps I won’t notice too much of a difference.
That kind of supports your point, but I don’t believe this is typical.
The unemployment benefit system is effectively contributory so you have to pay an “insurance” each month for at least 18 months (I think it was) before you can claim. If you can’t do this there is a state back-up but only for special circumstances.
I’m assuming it hasn’t changed….
NEW THREAD
I would guess Pakeha obesity rates to be a bit better than the U.K. average, but Maori & Pacific Island rates are much higher.
We (NZers) drive too much, don’t walk enough, and eat too many carbs / dairy.
Interestingly, those countries where food and home cookery is prized and children are taught from an early age to eat proper food – namely France and Italy – have among the lowest rates of obesity in the G20. Coincidence? I think not.