Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The message is getting through to CON MPs and more are wearing masks – politicalbetting.com

135

Comments

  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,253
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    I suppose the clue's in the name?
  • HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    Indeed. And you be on here championing whatever the government position is today even if it directly contradicts yesterday's position.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 8,845
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Three health stories in a week - gives up drink, ni, hospital.

    I greatly fear we are being prepared for bad news.
    It's treason to predict the death of the Monarch.

    Given the recent track record of other elderly members of the family, the likelihood is that she has several years of medical treatment of increasing frequency and severity.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,555

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,934
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's become very clear this morning that the slow take up of boosters is lack of demand, not supply.
    The government is now apparently planning an advertising campaign... a month or so too late.

    A quick glance at the Coronvirus website tells me that on the 17th April 9.9m at had their second jabs.

    So 9.9million have had all week to book (even have their booster jabs).

    Yet if you look at the top level numbers only 360 people have had booster jabs - now that figure makes no sense but vaccinations given less first dose total less second dose total =360.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

    What I suspect is happening is that booster vaccinations aren't being recorded but it's clear that given over 10million people are eligible for booster shots nothing like that number have had them.

    Where is that 360 number from, please?

    This press release from the NHS on October 15th (a week ago) says that at that date it was 3.1 million in 4 weeks, so probably 4 million now.

    More than three million top up COVID-19 jabs have been delivered in just four weeks, as the NHS vaccination rollout continues to protect those most at risk from coronavirus.

    A total of 3.1 million top ups have been administered with two in five people aged 50 and over who are eligible already coming forward for their extra jab.

    More than a third of health and care workers who are eligible have also had their booster vaccine.

    England’s top GP and deputy lead for the NHS COVID-19 vaccine programme, Dr Nikki Kanani, is one of the three million people to have received her booster vaccine and urged others to get their top up protection ahead of winter.

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/10/nhs-delivers-over-three-million-covid-boosters-in-first-month/

    Is this a terminology thing? Topup vs booster. My surgery distiguishes between the two.
    Literally from the coronavirus data front page.

    Total vaccinations - first doses - second doses = 360 vaccines.

    And given that 8.9 million had their second vaccinations by April 15th - there is a lot of a shortfall. Heck even if you look at the data for April 8th (so 6 month wait and 1 week for the vaccination) they've done less than 50% of those eligible for a booster.

    We should be doing 2-3million boosters a week at the moment and it seems that we aren't.
    Because of reporting delays and other issues, the sub-data often doesn't add to the apparent "total"

    So deaths by region don't add to UK deaths, generally.

    I've confirmed that the dashboard is not tracking booster shots at this point - from the response I got, from them - "Work is in progress to obtain the booster data for all four UK nations and it will be added to the dashboard as soon as we have it."
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,224
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    Masks wearing isn't a legal requirement on the underground and people who don't wear them aren't breaking the law. It's in the terms of carriage so the worst that can happen is people can be asked to leave.
    50:50 last time I went on the tube. But that was last week so perhaps things have changed now.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,661
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A harrowing but necessary primer on the rise of the Jalisco cartel


    ‘García, whose son César Ulises disappeared in 2017 and has not been found, described the macabre routine of such relatives as they sifted through excavated remains for those they had loved and lost. “You see these things up on the screen and say to yourself: ‘That arm looks sort of familiar, that head.’ It’s just so terrible – the viciousness that we’re seeing in this state,” she said.

    ‘Nearby stood Cecilia Flores, 54, whose 28-year-old son, Wilians, was taken in 2019. Four months later officials told her some body parts had been recovered from a notorious torture house called El Mirador. “They found a hand, his torso and forearm. I’m still missing the other hand and his legs,” she said.’

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/02/jalisco-cartel-mexico-rise-guadalajara?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    In fiction the excellent Sicario touched on this although of course it was very watered down for cinema audiences.
    One of the most appalling aspects of this hideous conflict is that the cartel killers film all their sadism and butchery, and put it online. To terrorise, of course

    I’ve seen a few. They’re not hard to find. I don’t ever want to see any more. Maybe I shouldn’t have watched the few I did. But isn’t that itself a kind of cowardice? Looking away, averting the face, pretend it isn’t happening?

    Suffice to say they make the worst ISIS vids look… quaintly medieval
    To be honest I think the US should designate these cartels as terrorist groups and start droning the leaders and members.
    How did the War on Drugs work out last time?
    Read that Atlantic article on the latest synthetic drugs. You can’t legalise them. They’re too addictive, potent and dangerous: they literally turn people into schizophrenics, within weeks

    I used to be a legaliser. Now I’m not

    The only countries that have cracked this are the zero tolerance countries. East Asia. Severe sentences and the death penalty.

    The only man to control the Mafia was Mussolini. He did it by killing thousands, often innocent

    A terrible crime. But the drugs problem has reached a stage where alternatives are worse. 250,000 have died already, in Mexico alone
    (Reading it now)

    I don't disagree.

    Legalise things that are merely bad for you, and criminalise (and punish *users* severely) for stuff that is more problematic.
    The drugs that are crazy bad for you came about as attempts to get round supply chain problems related to illegality.

    If you legalised, people would move to the safer equivalents.
    Like many things there are a variety of approaches. The worst (and commonest) is inconsistency, constant publicity exercises, 'crackdowns' (there was one this week) and so on.

    The possible approaches ate inconsistent with each other, so you have to make enemies in choosing. You are treading on toes and vested interests.

    The big options are:
    Legalise, laissez faire.
    Legalise, regulate, tax.
    Criminalise, with the emphasis on the supplier
    Ditto, with the emphasis on the user/purchaser (ie very long sentences merely for small time use and possession).

    We have discovered over decades that the third does not work. The second and fourth have never been tried and, IMHO, are the only ones with any chance at all of success.

    if you are making millions you will risk a 20 year sentence. How many ordinary folks would risk possession and use if the penalty were the same as possession of a firearm?

    More than enough to completely overfill our prison system, that's for sure. The Lord Advocate in Scotland recently announced, to very little fanfare, that there would be a strong presumption against any prosecution for simple possession of any illegal drugs. The lack of moaning about this dramatic decision suggests to me that the political balance on this is rapidly moving towards legalisation. Just a few more thousand dead to go.
    After the police raided the cannabis farm in the flat above me they appear to have taken no legal action. They didn't even contact the landlord, and left the tenant to remove the equipment. He claimed not to have been arrested, although he was detained the morning of the raid. The local PC said it might well be some time before I heard anything. A couple of weeks ago, there were other raids both locally and in other towns across the Hants/Berks border so I suspect that was the result and the police traded information for not prospecting. My suspicion was that they were selling to a wholesaler further up the chain as there was no longer any evidence of small scale dealing (which there had been when they first moved in) and there were very busy days every couple of months which seemed to be harvesting and processing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,224
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    I suppose the clue's in the name?
    Ha yes although I thought it was just a term like "critical", etc which I'm not sure of the meaning.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,896
    Greetings from That London.

    A couple of anecdotes...

    Mask wearing on the tube yesterday >50%. Certainly higher than on commuter trains around Leeds.

    Out in 'The City' after work last night. A big group of Yuppies* stood having a drink outside a boozer, and the place we ate was fairly busy.

    A few overseas tourists staying at the same hotel as me.

    Time to pack my bags and head back to God's Own Country.


    *Are they still called Yuppies? Young city types, anyway.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,224
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    Come one fine exercise, my school's CCF Regimental Sergeant Major issued us with live rounds instead of blanks. It was spotted before a shot was fired and then, as far as I can recall, not another word was said about it ever. He retired several years later with due ceremony.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,934
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    *The* rule that was enforced in CCF was that no gun was to be pointed at anyone, in any state whatsoever. We were told that if you did that, you would be expelled.

    Mind you, the spoil sports also denied repeated requests to get the Boyes rifle out of the gun room.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,622
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Three health stories in a week - gives up drink, ni, hospital.

    I greatly fear we are being prepared for bad news.
    TBF two of those were linked - she didn't go to NI as she was in hospital getting checked.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,749
    edited October 2021
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    Masks wearing isn't a legal requirement on the underground and people who don't wear them aren't breaking the law. It's in the terms of carriage so the worst that can happen is people can be asked to leave.
    The Mayor of London has responsibility for London Underground via TfL not the UK government and he and TfL have mandated mask wearing on it. The only place in the UK there is therefore a full mask mandate is the tube, the House of Commons like most other places does not have a mask mandate
  • Greetings from That London.

    A couple of anecdotes...

    Mask wearing on the tube yesterday >50%. Certainly higher than on commuter trains around Leeds.

    Out in 'The City' after work last night. A big group of Yuppies* stood having a drink outside a boozer, and the place we ate was fairly busy.

    A few overseas tourists staying at the same hotel as me.

    Time to pack my bags and head back to God's Own Country.


    *Are they still called Yuppies? Young city types, anyway.

    Congratulations on surviving 24 hours in the capital without getting stabbed or force-fed avocado toast by a member of the Wokerati.
    I'm spending a few days in Yorkshire next week, wish me luck.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,079
    Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505

    Greetings from That London.

    A couple of anecdotes...

    Mask wearing on the tube yesterday >50%. Certainly higher than on commuter trains around Leeds.

    Out in 'The City' after work last night. A big group of Yuppies* stood having a drink outside a boozer, and the place we ate was fairly busy.

    A few overseas tourists staying at the same hotel as me.

    Time to pack my bags and head back to God's Own Country.


    *Are they still called Yuppies? Young city types, anyway.

    Congratulations on surviving 24 hours in the capital without getting stabbed or force-fed avocado toast by a member of the Wokerati.
    I'm spending a few days in Yorkshire next week, wish me luck.
    To be threatened by pudding and rhubarb?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    *The* rule that was enforced in CCF was that no gun was to be pointed at anyone, in any state whatsoever. We were told that if you did that, you would be expelled.

    Mind you, the spoil sports also denied repeated requests to get the Boyes rifle out of the gun room.
    From time to time I forget what an old (private school) boys network PB is!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 40,952
    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    If you think that, why would an Mp's personal choice influence your vote ?
  • Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?

    I am renting a whippet.
    Headgear of some kind will be required, it is always brass monkeys in Leeds.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,811

    Greetings from That London.

    A couple of anecdotes...

    Mask wearing on the tube yesterday >50%. Certainly higher than on commuter trains around Leeds.

    Out in 'The City' after work last night. A big group of Yuppies* stood having a drink outside a boozer, and the place we ate was fairly busy.

    A few overseas tourists staying at the same hotel as me.

    Time to pack my bags and head back to God's Own Country.


    *Are they still called Yuppies? Young city types, anyway.

    Congratulations on surviving 24 hours in the capital without getting stabbed or force-fed avocado toast by a member of the Wokerati.
    I'm spending a few days in Yorkshire next week, wish me luck.
    The main difference is that in Yorkshire it's more "cap on't head" than "cap in ass". You'll be fine lad, we're very tolerant of outsiders now. So long as you're not from Lancashire, natch.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 40,952
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    The clue is in the word, surely ?
  • Tory MP's aren't as hypocritical as opposition MPs. Opposution MP's are virtue signallers par excellence.

    Tory MPs: no masks for PMQs Wednesday; masks Thursday.
  • Well things seem to be moving but why has it taken so long? Let us hope that in the meantime none of the earlier maskless Tories has caught COVID.

    Why not ?

    For fully vaccinated people to get infected is nothing to be concerned about unless they are sick oldies.

    Its the process by which they obtain a much greater level of immunity and thereby make the whole community fractionally safer.

    You're really not understanding how the transition of herd immunity and covid been endemic is going to work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,294
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's become very clear this morning that the slow take up of boosters is lack of demand, not supply.
    The government is now apparently planning an advertising campaign... a month or so too late.

    A quick glance at the Coronvirus website tells me that on the 17th April 9.9m at had their second jabs.

    So 9.9million have had all week to book (even have their booster jabs).

    Yet if you look at the top level numbers only 360 people have had booster jabs - now that figure makes no sense but vaccinations given less first dose total less second dose total =360.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

    What I suspect is happening is that booster vaccinations aren't being recorded but it's clear that given over 10million people are eligible for booster shots nothing like that number have had them.

    Where is that 360 number from, please?

    This press release from the NHS on October 15th (a week ago) says that at that date it was 3.1 million in 4 weeks, so probably 4 million now.

    More than three million top up COVID-19 jabs have been delivered in just four weeks, as the NHS vaccination rollout continues to protect those most at risk from coronavirus.

    A total of 3.1 million top ups have been administered with two in five people aged 50 and over who are eligible already coming forward for their extra jab.

    More than a third of health and care workers who are eligible have also had their booster vaccine.

    England’s top GP and deputy lead for the NHS COVID-19 vaccine programme, Dr Nikki Kanani, is one of the three million people to have received her booster vaccine and urged others to get their top up protection ahead of winter.

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/10/nhs-delivers-over-three-million-covid-boosters-in-first-month/

    Is this a terminology thing? Topup vs booster. My surgery distiguishes between the two.
    Literally from the coronavirus data front page.

    Total vaccinations - first doses - second doses = 360 vaccines.

    And given that 8.9 million had their second vaccinations by April 15th - there is a lot of a shortfall. Heck even if you look at the data for April 8th (so 6 month wait and 1 week for the vaccination) they've done less than 50% of those eligible for a booster.

    We should be doing 2-3million boosters a week at the moment and it seems that we aren't.
    Thanks.

    Something snarled up in the stats then.

    Topups not making it through.

    That seperately reported 3.1 million looks about right - OWID reports France at just around 2 million now. And our system is more efficient for a centralised process.

    I wonder if they are avoiding flak for 'hoarding doses'. Plenty of political charities are still out there shouting.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754
    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,555
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    Come one fine exercise, my school's CCF Regimental Sergeant Major issued us with live rounds instead of blanks. It was spotted before a shot was fired and then, as far as I can recall, not another word was said about it ever. He retired several years later with due ceremony.
    We were allowed to fire live .22 ammo on the range from an LE. I also fired a 7.62 L1A1 (standing!) on a trip to Catterick which felt like the ultimate bringer of death at the time. Very violent for a skinny 15 year old to handle.
  • HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,459

    Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?

    I am renting a whippet.
    Headgear of some kind will be required, it is always brass monkeys in Leeds.
    Not to mention Ilkley Moor.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,224
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    The clue is in the word, surely ?
    Well I hadn't thought it literally relates to the grave but I'm sure someone will enlighten me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,934

    Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?

    Not to mention a bottle of Chateau De Chasselais
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505

    Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?

    I am renting a whippet.
    Headgear of some kind will be required, it is always brass monkeys in Leeds.
    Mrs C blames our trip to Leeds a few weeks ago for our attack of Covid. I suppose I should have taken my flat cap.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,079
    King Cole, only the brave dare enter the Rhubarb Triangle.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,555
    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.

    When his face filled the screen (Aaargh) my wife remarked that he looked like a ghost. IIRC Brian doesn't like him at all.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,294
    edited October 2021
    BAD SIGN—Something really bad happening in UK —especially notable in Wales — where hospitalization for #COVID19 surging back near record—but for first time since vaccine rollout—DEATHS SPIKING now as well. Possibly new Delta sub variant. Watching. https://bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58973788

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1451442779641557033?s=20

    Death's spiking? Did he actually bother to look at the stats? (QTWTAIN)

    Does he also realise that unlike earlier in the pandemic we have almost no restrictions? It is a different phase. Everyone is going to be exposed to it unless they take significant precautions. We have to trust the vaccines and get jabbed as soon as we can.

    It's shockingly misleading reporting. These are his 2 graphs. The death peak was 11 January. So a hospitalisation peak - this looks like "in hospital" not "going to hospital" is obvs long before 1st March and much higher.

    The BBC truncated that graph to March 1st make it look more dramatic. Eric Ding added the misleading interpretation without checking.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58973788

    I cant find a graph of people in hospital with COVID in Wales covering the entire period, so I don't know what the peak is.





  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 40,952
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    Come one fine exercise, my school's CCF Regimental Sergeant Major issued us with live rounds instead of blanks. It was spotted before a shot was fired and then, as far as I can recall, not another word was said about it ever. He retired several years later with due ceremony.
    We were allowed to fire live .22 ammo on the range from an LE. I also fired a 7.62 L1A1 (standing!) on a trip to Catterick which felt like the ultimate bringer of death at the time. Very violent for a skinny 15 year old to handle.
    Used to target shoot with .303s at school. Similarly skinny, so always had a bruised shoulder afterwards.

    How did Baldwin manage to accidentally shoot two people ?
  • Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?

    I am renting a whippet.
    Headgear of some kind will be required, it is always brass monkeys in Leeds.
    When you get your clogs fitted, do ensure they are made from "sustainable" wood supplies so as to not annoy your London friends..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,073
    I see "Plan C" is now being discussed.

    More like Plan F.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,811

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.

    When his face filled the screen (Aaargh) my wife remarked that he looked like a ghost. IIRC Brian doesn't like him at all.
    Brian?
  • Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    *The* rule that was enforced in CCF was that no gun was to be pointed at anyone, in any state whatsoever. We were told that if you did that, you would be expelled.

    Mind you, the spoil sports also denied repeated requests to get the Boyes rifle out of the gun room.
    Never, never let your gun
    Pointed be at anyone.
    That it may unloaded be
    Matters not the least to me.


    Well-known and widespread advice, written by a Liberal MP (and a plot point in Rumpole).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hanbury_Beaufoy
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505
    Selebian said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.

    When his face filled the screen (Aaargh) my wife remarked that he looked like a ghost. IIRC Brian doesn't like him at all.
    Brian?
    Private Eye for Prince Charles.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I see "Plan C" is now being discussed.

    More like Plan F.

    There is only plan B and C. No room on Johnson's fag packet to get all the way to F
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 40,952
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.

    He's looked like that for years - and looks more like a bald ferret than hunting dog.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    It's become very clear this morning that the slow take up of boosters is lack of demand, not supply.
    The government is now apparently planning an advertising campaign... a month or so too late.

    As I said yesterday the clear messaging has been "vaccinated means go back to normal". So its hardly a surprise that there is a lack of demand - "why do I need a booster?"
    Which is why government should have been way more proactive in making the case.
    Fits the pattern

    Nigelb said:

    It's become very clear this morning that the slow take up of boosters is lack of demand, not supply.
    The government is now apparently planning an advertising campaign... a month or so too late.

    As I said yesterday the clear messaging has been "vaccinated means go back to normal". So its hardly a surprise that there is a lack of demand - "why do I need a booster?"
    I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised if that is what the ordinary person on the Clapham omnibus thinks, but it a bit sad. There has been enormous levels of information available about why a booster is a good thing for those at risk.
    You know the answer, your not stupid, so why don’t they?
    An energetic government information campaign a month ago might have made a big difference.
    As ever, this govt is reactive, not proactive.
    Is it necessary for some politician at the top to kick arses before things get done ?

    Perhaps the 'envy of the world' could encourage its own workers to get the booster instead of demanding restrictions on other people.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,055

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
  • TOPPING said:

    Greetings from That London.

    A couple of anecdotes...

    Mask wearing on the tube yesterday >50%. Certainly higher than on commuter trains around Leeds.

    Out in 'The City' after work last night. A big group of Yuppies* stood having a drink outside a boozer, and the place we ate was fairly busy.

    A few overseas tourists staying at the same hotel as me.

    Time to pack my bags and head back to God's Own Country.


    *Are they still called Yuppies? Young city types, anyway.

    Congratulations on surviving 24 hours in the capital without getting stabbed or force-fed avocado toast by a member of the Wokerati.
    I'm spending a few days in Yorkshire next week, wish me luck.
    Avoid the guacamole. It tastes funny up there.
    Although it is widely available - I even saw it in a delightful establishment serving French fried potatoes and a selection of seafood and artisanal meat products, which appeared to be remarkably popular with the wonderful local people, some of whom I assume probably ate there several times a day.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,811

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Three health stories in a week - gives up drink, ni, hospital.

    I greatly fear we are being prepared for bad news.
    TBF two of those were linked - she didn't go to NI as she was in hospital getting checked.
    Arguably the first necessitates the second too. Can you imagine getting through a state function, particularly with northen ireland unionists, without a wee drink? :open_mouth:
  • MattW said:

    BAD SIGN—Something really bad happening in UK —especially notable in Wales — where hospitalization for #COVID19 surging back near record—but for first time since vaccine rollout—DEATHS SPIKING now as well. Possibly new Delta sub variant. Watching. https://bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58973788

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1451442779641557033?s=20

    Death's spiking? Did he actually bother to look at the stats? (QTWTAIN)

    Does he also realise that unlike earlier in the pandemic we have almost no restrictions? It is a different phase. Everyone is going to be exposed to it unless they take significant precautions. We have to trust the vaccines and get jabbed as soon as we can.

    It's shockingly misleading reporting. These are his 2 graphs. The death peak was 11 January. So a hospitalisation peak - this looks like "in hospital" not "going to hospital" is obvs long before 1st March and much higher.

    The BBC truncated that graph to March 1st make it look more dramatic. Eric Ding added the misleading interpretation without checking.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58973788

    I cant find a graph of people in hospital with COVID covering the entire period.







    Anecdotal I know, but just spoke to a senior clinician friend of mine from a major teaching hospital in Eastern England. Covid numbers still low according to him.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,181
    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - sadly, the only way to get antivaxxers to take the vaccine is to make their day to day life impossible until they give up and get vaccinated.
  • Well things seem to be moving but why has it taken so long? Let us hope that in the meantime none of the earlier maskless Tories has caught COVID.

    Why not ?

    For fully vaccinated people to get infected is nothing to be concerned about unless they are sick oldies.

    Its the process by which they obtain a much greater level of immunity and thereby make the whole community fractionally safer.

    You're really not understanding how the transition of herd immunity and covid been endemic is going to work.

    How about vaccinated people pumping out pox in the presence of people who think they are immune but they are now overdue their booster?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,749
    edited October 2021

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Well that is their choice, if we are not going to make vaccination mandatory then we must not make mask wearing mandatory either now. Especially as double vaccination is far more effective at stopping Covid and its worst effects than wearing a mask
  • Selebian said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.

    When his face filled the screen (Aaargh) my wife remarked that he looked like a ghost. IIRC Brian doesn't like him at all.
    Brian?
    Private Eye for Prince Charles.
    Overheard saying "oh no, it's that ghastly Nicholas Witchell man" or something like that
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 3,811

    Selebian said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nicholas Witchell looks ill. I think he's going to be interred with Her like one of the hunting dogs in a Saxon ship burial.

    When his face filled the screen (Aaargh) my wife remarked that he looked like a ghost. IIRC Brian doesn't like him at all.
    Brian?
    Private Eye for Prince Charles.
    Ah. I've obviously not been keeping up! I was only aware of Brenda.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,294
    edited October 2021

    Mr. Boy, one trusts you have a flat cap to wear so you blend in?

    I am renting a whippet.
    Headgear of some kind will be required, it is always brass monkeys in Leeds.
    Ozzie cricket hat is the only option.

    With a steel plate hidden in the top.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 40,952
    edited October 2021

    MattW said:



    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1451442779641557033?s=20

    Death's spiking? Did he actually bother to look at the stats? (QTWTAIN)

    Does he also realise that unlike earlier in the pandemic we have almost no restrictions? It is a different phase. Everyone is going to be exposed to it unless they take significant precautions. We have to trust the vaccines and get jabbed as soon as we can.

    It's shockingly misleading reporting. These are his 2 graphs. The death peak was 11 January. So a hospitalisation peak - this looks like "in hospital" not "going to hospital" is obvs long before 1st March and much higher.

    The BBC truncated that graph to March 1st make it look more dramatic. Eric Ding added the misleading interpretation without checking.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58973788

    ....
    I think, having correctly panicked at the outset of the pandemic, he has become a sort of epidemiologist version of SeanT.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Well that is their choice, if we are not going to make vaccination mandatory then we must not make mask wearing mandatory either now. Especially as double vaccination is far more effective at stopping Covid and its worst effects than wearing a mask
    Until we realise that double vaccination isn't effective at stopping Covid (hint - we now have the studies proving that) and we now need a triple vaccination.

    Seriously, you should stop parroting this shit. We all know the u-turn is coming and then you will look almost as appalling as you did when you strongly recommended that British citizens be interred abroad for their crimes of swarthy skin and the wrong religion.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754
    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Indeed. How f*cking inept our government looks in comparison!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,660
    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    If they're still wearing them at the time of the next election, you mean, when Covid is no longer a big concern?

    Or do you mean you're noticing NOW and filing the memory away to punish that party come the election?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,885
    I wonder whether they will hold the first assistant legally responsible. The assistant director is responsible for everything that happens on set. This was an Indie production so it's possible they weren't quite as professional as they are on more mainstream productions or even commercials where I've seen a stunt man lifted off the ground by his collar by the first assistant for going before he'd called 'action'
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 14,091
    edited October 2021
    AlistairM said:

    NZ cases are now rapidly rising with a new record of 129 cases and they have now probably reached the point where they no longer have the resources to effectively track infections.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-129-cases-as-pm-unveils-road-map-out-of-lockdown/VEU6XHEZHJJ23QRCHD3LKA72RM/

    They have reached good levels of vaccination but they have a choice to make. Do they live in some kind of ongoing lockdown or do they open up with the cases and deaths which will come with it?

    Auckland has been under a pretty severe lockdown now for coming up to three months. Worth remembering that about 40% of the entire NZ population lives in Greater Auckland, so that lockdown is extreme.
  • TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, 95-yr old woman "back at her desk" after hospital check ups.

    Been described as "in good spirits". That generally means you're completely fucked. cf Phil the Greek.
    When the Princess of Hearts was in that car crash doctors described her condition as "grave" and I said oh well that's ok then she'll be fine. To which a doctor friend of mine said no, "grave" means it's all over, might already be.
    The clue is in the word, surely ?
    Well I hadn't thought it literally relates to the grave but I'm sure someone will enlighten me.
    It is generally a give away if they start coughin' as they say it.
  • Well things seem to be moving but why has it taken so long? Let us hope that in the meantime none of the earlier maskless Tories has caught COVID.

    Why not ?

    For fully vaccinated people to get infected is nothing to be concerned about unless they are sick oldies.

    Its the process by which they obtain a much greater level of immunity and thereby make the whole community fractionally safer.

    You're really not understanding how the transition of herd immunity and covid been endemic is going to work.

    How about vaccinated people pumping out pox in the presence of people who think they are immune but they are now overdue their booster?
    Vaccination is not an on/off thing.

    The vaccinated will emit less virus and the vaccinated will still have some protection.

    And once they've been infected it will be much safer both for them and those around them.

    Anyway you'd better get used to that reality because covid isn't going to disappear.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - sadly, the only way to get antivaxxers to take the vaccine is to make their day to day life impossible until they give up and get vaccinated.
    In the pub (unmasked, of course) the other day I remarked the other day on the fact that a local businessperson was refusing to be vaccinated and some of those present suggested attending the premises armed with pitchforks.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 14,091
    edited October 2021
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    Masks wearing isn't a legal requirement on the underground and people who don't wear them aren't breaking the law. It's in the terms of carriage so the worst that can happen is people can be asked to leave.
    In practice, many don’t wear them. Interestingly they are a rare sight among Underground staff.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,622

    Well things seem to be moving but why has it taken so long? Let us hope that in the meantime none of the earlier maskless Tories has caught COVID.

    Why not ?

    For fully vaccinated people to get infected is nothing to be concerned about unless they are sick oldies.

    Its the process by which they obtain a much greater level of immunity and thereby make the whole community fractionally safer.

    You're really not understanding how the transition of herd immunity and covid been endemic is going to work.

    How about vaccinated people pumping out pox in the presence of people who think they are immune but they are now overdue their booster?
    The waning of immunity doesn't really have a cliff edge though. Being overdue their booster in no way means that they are suddenly back to being unprotected.
  • eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - sadly, the only way to get antivaxxers to take the vaccine is to make their day to day life impossible until they give up and get vaccinated.
    The problem is to do that without inconveniencing the vaccinated.

    The alternative strategy is to let the anti-vaxxers all get infected.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754
    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    If they're still wearing them at the time of the next election, you mean, when Covid is no longer a big concern?

    Or do you mean you're noticing NOW and filing the memory away to punish that party come the election?
    Or is @fox327's assertion just a load of twaddle?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,749
    edited October 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Well that is their choice, if we are not going to make vaccination mandatory then we must not make mask wearing mandatory either now. Especially as double vaccination is far more effective at stopping Covid and its worst effects than wearing a mask
    Until we realise that double vaccination isn't effective at stopping Covid (hint - we now have the studies proving that) and we now need a triple vaccination.

    Seriously, you should stop parroting this shit. We all know the u-turn is coming and then you will look almost as appalling as you did when you strongly recommended that British citizens be interred abroad for their crimes of swarthy skin and the wrong religion.
    It is actually effective to some extent at reducing spread of Covid and it is very effective at cutting the risk of hospitalisation and death from Covid, of that there is no doubt.
    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

    I do not oppose vaccine passports for the biggest events and clubs therefore. I am not a great fan of mandatory mask wearing however as I believe it has limited effect on reducing spread, especially if only a cloth mask and I will certainly oppose any further full lockdowns.

    I also make no apology for advocating greater checks on those British citizens who go to areas like Somalia to ensure they are not going to get radicalised and trained to be Jihadis just as I advocate greater enforcement of the law against Jihadi websites
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,342

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Yes, I'm all for personal choice on things that only affect me. Should I take a male lover? Change my cereal to Shreddies? Vote SWP or UKIP? Commit suicide? None of your business. However, the right to enter a crowded space and choose not to minimise the risk of infecting other people? There, you have a legitimate interest and a right to lay down rules on what I can do.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,163
    "Alec Baldwin fatally shoots a woman" wasn't a headline I was expecting to wake up to.

    Good morning PB
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - sadly, the only way to get antivaxxers to take the vaccine is to make their day to day life impossible until they give up and get vaccinated.
    The problem is to do that without inconveniencing the vaccinated.

    The alternative strategy is to let the anti-vaxxers all get infected.
    That approach leads to maximum incovenience for the vaccinated... Especially if you have a need to use the health service.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,747
    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Indeed. How f*cking inept our government looks in comparison!
    I see less of the crowing about the vaccine rollout from Clown apologists these days? When history judges Johnson's management of this pandemic it is going to be savage. As for the initial success of the vaccine rollout (his only defence), Churchill's maxim of “The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes” seems very apt.
  • eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - sadly, the only way to get antivaxxers to take the vaccine is to make their day to day life impossible until they give up and get vaccinated.
    The problem is to do that without inconveniencing the vaccinated.

    The alternative strategy is to let the anti-vaxxers all get infected.
    So long as they treat themselves at home at their own cost.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,294

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alec Baldwin fatally shoot a woman on a film set in New Mexico after the misfiring of a prop gun with blanks.


    Tragic story

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500

    Because film makers want a "real" muzzle flash, they use real guns, with blanks. Anything that gets stuck in the barrel becomes a projectile.
    We were mostly restricted to .38 and .303 blank firing weapons at CCF when I was at boarding school so we used to fire pencils at each other propelled by .38 blanks. To this day I have a substantial piece of 2B lead lodged in my left forearm.
    *The* rule that was enforced in CCF was that no gun was to be pointed at anyone, in any state whatsoever. We were told that if you did that, you would be expelled.

    Mind you, the spoil sports also denied repeated requests to get the Boyes rifle out of the gun room.
    It seems that in the US they often use real guns loaded with blanks for firing.

    In the UK they seem to follow normal firearms rules, plus a police presence if it is public.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Yes, I'm all for personal choice on things that only affect me. Should I take a male lover? Change my cereal to Shreddies? Vote SWP or UKIP? Commit suicide? None of your business. However, the right to enter a crowded space and choose not to minimise the risk of infecting other people? There, you have a legitimate interest and a right to lay down rules on what I can do.
    Spot on.

    We also rightly restrict people's rights to self-harm in situation where that self-harm will cost cost the taxpayer large amounts (seat belts, crash helmets, etc.)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 18,932
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/10/21/queen-spent-night-hospital-cancelling-northern-ireland-visit/

    The Queen’s medical team are believed to have taken a cautious approach to her health by choosing to send her to a specialist for further checks.

    Not great.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505

    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
    I had a text at the same anniversary, but my wife, who had her second vaccination a bit before me has never had one.
    Checked on the website, found a drive-in not far away and booked for both of us.
    Then we both tested positive, so that means another few weeks wait.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,622

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    Masks wearing isn't a legal requirement on the underground and people who don't wear them aren't breaking the law. It's in the terms of carriage so the worst that can happen is people can be asked to leave.
    In practice, many don’t wear them. Interestingly they are a rare sight among Underground staff.
    I know its not the same but similar behaviour in our Waitrose. After the law changed, almost all staff still wore their masks, and the shop asked the customers carried on. Now, some months later, for staff its about 50:50, and similar among shoppers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754

    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
    I'm completely baffled. I've double-checked with my mum - her 2nd jab was 19th October, so the email inviting her for a booster is appropriate. But computer says no.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505
    edited October 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/10/21/queen-spent-night-hospital-cancelling-northern-ireland-visit/

    The Queen’s medical team are believed to have taken a cautious approach to her health by choosing to send her to a specialist for further checks.

    Not great.

    Consultant geriatrician or what? You'd think there'd be a geriatrician on the team!
  • eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - sadly, the only way to get antivaxxers to take the vaccine is to make their day to day life impossible until they give up and get vaccinated.
    The problem is to do that without inconveniencing the vaccinated.

    The alternative strategy is to let the anti-vaxxers all get infected.
    That approach leads to maximum incovenience for the vaccinated... Especially if you have a need to use the health service.
    The answer is to stop the anti-vaxxers getting NHS treatment.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,622

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Indeed. How f*cking inept our government looks in comparison!
    I will to some extent defend the government on the specific case of vaccinating the 12-17 ages. The hold up was the JCVI. You can argue that they should have been over-ruled, but they quite deliberately delayed even making a decision, long after the MHRA had approved use in those age ranges, and long after France had started jabbing their teenagers.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,294
    edited October 2021

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Yes, I'm all for personal choice on things that only affect me. Should I take a male lover? Change my cereal to Shreddies? Vote SWP or UKIP? Commit suicide? None of your business. However, the right to enter a crowded space and choose not to minimise the risk of infecting other people? There, you have a legitimate interest and a right to lay down rules on what I can do.
    1 - Does you wife mind?
    2 - Shreddies are good but carb-heavy and moreish. Aldi version is great.
    3 - For shits and giggles only. Buckethead is better.
    4 - Depends.
    5 - Needs thinking about. The night club and entertainment industries have been 2 of the most irresponsible throughout promoting their own business interest regardless of public safety.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754
    edited October 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    At the beginning of the year we were told the French were never going to have a high uptake of the vaccine.

    Then we were told they had failed to secure sufficient supplies.

    Then we were told there'd be rioting on the streets if they introduced antivaxxer restrictions.

    Turns out that was all a load anti-French bigoted bolleaux!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,163

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Yep, my mother's been trying to use the online service and gets that.

    Two things have gone wrong with the Boosters, IMO.

    1. NHS IT has clearly broken down.

    2. GPs are involved in this phase of the jab campaign and they're generally useless at everything.

    The boosters should have been handled in exactly the same way the summer vaccination campaign was handled.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,505

    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
    I'm completely baffled. I've double-checked with my mum - her 2nd jab was 19th October, so the email inviting her for a booster is appropriate. But computer says no.
    If it's your computer, the system doesn't think that it's you, does it. Have you tried phoning?
    And take it you mean her second vaccination was April 19th.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,055

    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
    That is good to hear, particularly if from the NHS. If I get an email the day before I'm due I will come here and eat humble pie. A friend of mine got prebooked prior to being eligible, but that was GP organised. Couldn't book on the app.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,622

    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
    I'm completely baffled. I've double-checked with my mum - her 2nd jab was 19th October, so the email inviting her for a booster is appropriate. But computer says no.
    You don't mean her 2nd jab was on 19th October do you? You mean that was 6 months on. I have heard the criteria is 6 months and a week.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,882
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A harrowing but necessary primer on the rise of the Jalisco cartel


    ‘García, whose son César Ulises disappeared in 2017 and has not been found, described the macabre routine of such relatives as they sifted through excavated remains for those they had loved and lost. “You see these things up on the screen and say to yourself: ‘That arm looks sort of familiar, that head.’ It’s just so terrible – the viciousness that we’re seeing in this state,” she said.

    ‘Nearby stood Cecilia Flores, 54, whose 28-year-old son, Wilians, was taken in 2019. Four months later officials told her some body parts had been recovered from a notorious torture house called El Mirador. “They found a hand, his torso and forearm. I’m still missing the other hand and his legs,” she said.’

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/02/jalisco-cartel-mexico-rise-guadalajara?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    In fiction the excellent Sicario touched on this although of course it was very watered down for cinema audiences.
    One of the most appalling aspects of this hideous conflict is that the cartel killers film all their sadism and butchery, and put it online. To terrorise, of course

    I’ve seen a few. They’re not hard to find. I don’t ever want to see any more. Maybe I shouldn’t have watched the few I did. But isn’t that itself a kind of cowardice? Looking away, averting the face, pretend it isn’t happening?

    Suffice to say they make the worst ISIS vids look… quaintly medieval
    To be honest I think the US should designate these cartels as terrorist groups and start droning the leaders and members.
    How did the War on Drugs work out last time?
    Read that Atlantic article on the latest synthetic drugs. You can’t legalise them. They’re too addictive, potent and dangerous: they literally turn people into schizophrenics, within weeks

    I used to be a legaliser. Now I’m not

    The only countries that have cracked this are the zero tolerance countries. East Asia. Severe sentences and the death penalty.

    The only man to control the Mafia was Mussolini. He did it by killing thousands, often innocent

    A terrible crime. But the drugs problem has reached a stage where alternatives are worse. 250,000 have died already, in Mexico alone
    (Reading it now)

    I don't disagree.

    Legalise things that are merely bad for you, and criminalise (and punish *users* severely) for stuff that is more problematic.
    The drugs that are crazy bad for you came about as attempts to get round supply chain problems related to illegality.

    If you legalised, people would move to the safer equivalents.
    Like many things there are a variety of approaches. The worst (and commonest) is inconsistency, constant publicity exercises, 'crackdowns' (there was one this week) and so on.

    The possible approaches ate inconsistent with each other, so you have to make enemies in choosing. You are treading on toes and vested interests.

    The big options are:
    Legalise, laissez faire.
    Legalise, regulate, tax.
    Criminalise, with the emphasis on the supplier
    Ditto, with the emphasis on the user/purchaser (ie very long sentences merely for small time use and possession).

    We have discovered over decades that the third does not work. The second and fourth have never been tried and, IMHO, are the only ones with any chance at all of success.

    if you are making millions you will risk a 20 year sentence. How many ordinary folks would risk possession and use if the penalty were the same as possession of a firearm?

    More than enough to completely overfill our prison system, that's for sure. The Lord Advocate in Scotland recently announced, to very little fanfare, that there would be a strong presumption against any prosecution for simple possession of any illegal drugs. The lack of moaning about this dramatic decision suggests to me that the political balance on this is rapidly moving towards legalisation. Just a few more thousand dead to go.
    This may be right but has it been tested? How many budding professionals in universities want a four year sentence on their record? I prefer legalisation, but the voter and the Mail don't. Sadly I don't think it is practical politics.

    The deeper argument is that, as with prostitution, there is a case for saying that the demander is the real crook, not the supplier. Curiously the left and the young like this argument about the sex trade but less so about drugs.....I wonder why.

    The person who knowingly receives, sells, uses, stolen goods is the person who keeps the thief in business.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,224

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Yes, I'm all for personal choice on things that only affect me. Should I take a male lover? Change my cereal to Shreddies? Vote SWP or UKIP? Commit suicide? None of your business. However, the right to enter a crowded space and choose not to minimise the risk of infecting other people? There, you have a legitimate interest and a right to lay down rules on what I can do.
    Absolutely. I remember pre-pandemic having to show my "Flu Card" everywhere I went especially to pubs to prove I didn't have the flu.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Indeed. How f*cking inept our government looks in comparison!
    I will to some extent defend the government on the specific case of vaccinating the 12-17 ages. The hold up was the JCVI. You can argue that they should have been over-ruled, but they quite deliberately delayed even making a decision, long after the MHRA had approved use in those age ranges, and long after France had started jabbing their teenagers.
    Mrs T's maxim applies: Advisors advise, ministers decide. Johnson dithers and then asks Carrie what she thinks.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,055

    Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    Yep - this is what those who oppose vaccine passports seem to have missed. Its about increasing pressure ot get vaccinated, and seemingly works elsewhere. Bring it on, I say.
    On my trip to France we noted that you needed to produce a double vaccine certificate at every bar and restaurant even if outside and they were very hot on it. The bar owners were livid about it but enforced it rigidly as there were big fines not to do so.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,754
    edited October 2021

    kjh said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Well not a surprise if you see my posts. I will walk into a no appointment vaccine centre, but many won't do it without an invitation. The booster stuff is a shambles, yet they are blaming the public.
    It's obviously unacceptably variable. My experience was good. I got a text from the NHS exactly one day before the six months was up, inviting me to book by phone or online. Went online, loads of slots available locally for the next day. In my city, that seems to be the normal experience.
    I'm completely baffled. I've double-checked with my mum - her 2nd jab was 19th October, so the email inviting her for a booster is appropriate. But computer says no.
    You don't mean her 2nd jab was on 19th October do you? You mean that was 6 months on. I have heard the criteria is 6 months and a week.
    No sorry, her second jab was 19th April - my mistake.

    If the criteria is 6 months and a week, maybe they should just send the emails a week later.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 35,224
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    fox327 said:

    I believe that wearing a mask should be a personal choice. I will not be voting for a party at the next general election if most of its MPs are wearing masks in the House of Commons chamber.

    Indeed, legally mask wearing is personal choice now everywhere apart from the London Underground.

    If you have been double vaccinated that is the main thing
    The problem is that the intersection of the Venn diagram of those who wear masks and those who haven't been vaccinated is likely to be very small.
    Yes, I'm all for personal choice on things that only affect me. Should I take a male lover? Change my cereal to Shreddies? Vote SWP or UKIP? Commit suicide? None of your business. However, the right to enter a crowded space and choose not to minimise the risk of infecting other people? There, you have a legitimate interest and a right to lay down rules on what I can do.
    1 - Does you wife mind?
    2 - Shreddies are good but carb-heavy and moreish. Aldi version is great.
    3 - For shits and giggles only. Buckethead is better.
    4 - Depends.
    5 - Needs thinking about. The night club and entertainment industries have been 2 of the most irresponsible throughout promoting their own business interest regardless of public safety.
    As far as I'm aware those going to nightclubs are adults for the most part. Who are perfectly aware of the issues they face.

    Young adults, that said, so not really at risk from Covid in the way that oldies are and I don't see oldies queuing round the block to get into Heaven. Or at least not *that* heaven.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I note the French have got their cases down to around 6,000 and double jabbed up ~ 70% of 12 - 17.

    I quite like their approach of actively making antivaxxers lives a complete misery.

    At the beginning of the year we were told the French were never going to have a high uptake of the vaccine.

    Then we were told they had failed to secure sufficient supplies.

    Then we were told there'd be rioting on the streets if they introduced antivaxxer restrictions.

    Turns out that was all a load anti-French bigoted bolleaux!
    No it wasn't. And you misquote of course. On purpose perhaps?

  • GIN1138 said:

    Booster anecdote:

    My 84 year old mum today received an email inviting her to book her covid booster...

    ... when I go on-line to book it for her it says "You are not currently eligible".

    Yep, my mother's been trying to use the online service and gets that.

    Two things have gone wrong with the Boosters, IMO.

    1. NHS IT has clearly broken down.

    2. GPs are involved in this phase of the jab campaign and they're generally useless at everything.

    The boosters should have been handled in exactly the same way the summer vaccination campaign was handled.
    Envy of the world.

    That said there does appear to be a lot of local variation - everyone I know who wanted a booster has had one.
This discussion has been closed.