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edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This morning’s Brussels attacks are a terrible tragedy not something on which to make a political point

Clearly the news today has been totally dominated by the attacks in Brussels but, like many, I was somewhat aghast by the above Tweet by a Telegraph columnist.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Spot on.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Urquhart, hmm.

    That'd be comical, if it weren't deadly serious. How'd they catch him? Or did he escape, and they caught him a few days later?

    The ISIS fugitive was said to have been traced to a house in Brussels neighbourhood of Molenbeek two days after the atrocity which claimed the lives of 130 people.

    But Belgian cops didn't move in because they can't perform raids between 9pm and 5am, it was reported.

    By the time they raided the house, the suspect had escaped.

    Now reports have claimed Abdeslam managed to evade the cops by being smuggled out of the house he was hiding in concealed inside a piece of furniture.
  • Roger
    Roger Posts: 20,744
    edited March 2016
    Another piece of work employed by our right wing press. Why the surprise?

    Try reading MikeK's efforts or Dodd's or Tigg on the last thread. I gave up.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited March 2016
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Urquhart, no, I hadn't seen that, or heard it reported (as you may've gathered, I wasn't paying especially close attention).

    I can't find the footage on youtube at the moment, but it is Benny Hill-esque...he literally walks straight out the front door, right past all the police, and they don't react at all.
  • JohnLilburne
    JohnLilburne Posts: 6,879
    On the contrary, one of the most important things governments do is to protect us from terrorists. Is something happens which shows they are not doing it, then political points are perfectly valid.

    This point, however, is asinine.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited March 2016
    Pearson has obviously struck a nerve. Brava.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Urquhart, sounds like Belgium's police and intelligence setup needs to be scrapped and started over.

    Mr. Smithson, I think that tweet is crass. But then, I think Cameron claiming security depends on EU membership is crass. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
  • edmundintokyo
    edmundintokyo Posts: 17,735
    I disagree, this is exactly the kind of thing that the referendum's about, it doesn't make sense to expect people not to talk about it.

    That said, early reports at times like this are often wildly inaccurate, so you want to go easy drawing conclusions about the specifics.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Laid £13/£40 Khan earlier........
  • david_herdson
    david_herdson Posts: 18,357
    And yet on a site dedicated to the likely political consequences of events, we should be thinking about what the effect will be - though that's different from trying to score points, as Pearson crassly tries to.

    And in terms of effects, the attacks will have virtually no impact on their own. It's three months to the referendum; today's news will be forgotten background noise by then. How relevant were the Paris attacks before today?
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Mike is right. Applies to "Vote Remain to stay safe" too. Terrorism is orthogonal to EU membership - we will have it to worry about either way.

    On domestic matters,

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-03-22/poll-shows-majority-in-wales-now-back-eu-membership/

    mostly discusses the Weslh Assembly election (spoiler: Labour well ahead but down a bit on last time and well below peak polling), but also includes an apparently sharp move to Remain. It predates the IDS resignation and of course the latest events.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Who are you kidding?

    Shouting in Arabic before blowing yourselves up?

    Mormons obviously.
    edmundintokyo said:

    I disagree, this is exactly the kind of thing that the referendum's about, it doesn't make sense to expect people not to talk about it.

    That said, early reports at times like this are often wildly inaccurate, so you want to go easy drawing conclusions about the specifics.

  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Agreed. I don't think being in or out will make any difference tbh. To claim that this is happening because of the EU because it is in Brussels is ridiculous.
  • RodCrosby
    RodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Move along. Nothing to see. All is well. Religion of Peace, etc...
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    I agree with Mike, but then again I'd say so is using the same story to subtley create another anti-Brexit thread.
  • AlastairMeeks
    AlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I don't know how she wrote it.
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    The problem isn't just that Ms Pearson tries to score a political point out before the bodies have even been counted, but that the point she makes is a complete non-sequitur.

    As regards the actual political impact, UK voters are a pretty sane lot. They know perfectly well that terrorism is an issue which is largely independent of whether we stay in the EU or not.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    AlastairMeeks said:

    I don't know how she wrote it.

    With her hands, a laptop, keyboard, tablet or phone is my guess :)
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    MaxPB said:

    Agreed. I don't think being in or out will make any difference tbh. To claim that this is happening because of the EU because it is in Brussels is ridiculous.

    France's and Holland's instinctive and immediate introduction of border controls speaks volumes.
  • GideonWise
    GideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Words are always inadequate to describe our sense of outrage at these attacks.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I didn't like the timing of Alison Pearson's tweet, but it's been shared almost a thousand times.

    The differing sides simply don't understand each other here.
    Casino_Royale said:

    I agree with Mike, but then again I'd say so is using the same story to subtley create another anti-Brexit thread.

  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    France's and Holland's instinctive and immediate introduction of border controls speaks volumes.

    I don't think it speaks anything, other than a sensible response to try to ensure that any accomplices of the murderers can't escape, as they did after the Paris attacks
  • CD13
    CD13 Posts: 6,386
    The IS aims are straightforward. Jezza suggests negotiations. I await a form of words that would satisfy IS in any circumstances other than their avowed aims.

    Perhaps we just give them the Sudetenland, and then perhaps Poland. Oh, alright, they can have London - nobody likes the place anyway.

    Any other suggestions?
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Words are always inadequate to describe our sense of outrage at these attacks.

    Allison Pearson has made a valiant attempt though.

    I'm not sad at today's events. More livid and mad right now.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And this is Labour earlier this morning

    Rachael Reeves
    Given horrific events in Brussels surprised no government minister is making a statement in parliament re security/support for Belgium.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Plato_Says said:

    And this is Labour earlier this morning

    Rachael Reeves
    Given horrific events in Brussels surprised no government minister is making a statement in parliament re security/support for Belgium.

    Dear God, that's even worse than Pearson's tweet.
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    MaxPB said:

    Agreed. I don't think being in or out will make any difference tbh. To claim that this is happening because of the EU because it is in Brussels is ridiculous.

    France's and Holland's instinctive and immediate introduction of border controls speaks volumes.
    Again, Schengen isn't specifically an EU thing and we aren't in it.

    There are two types of free movement within the EU, one is the right to live and work in any other EU country (which we are part of) and one is Schengen which allows passport free travel across national borders (which we are not part of). Both Leave and Remain sides conflating the two is as frustrating to me as when people conflate debt and deficit.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    GideonWise said:

    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.

    Simon Jenkins is pretty sound until he gets onto anything to do with defence, terrorism or Westen foreign policy.

    I think he fulfils a similar role for the Guardian to that Rod Liddle does for the Spectator and the Sunday Times.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I gather Corbynistas advocate a nice cup of tea.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12199570/British-soldiers-should-have-cups-of-tea-with-Islamic-State-terrorists-says-Jeremy-Corbyn-ally.html
    CD13 said:

    The IS aims are straightforward. Jezza suggests negotiations. I await a form of words that would satisfy IS in any circumstances other than their avowed aims.

    Perhaps we just give them the Sudetenland, and then perhaps Poland. Oh, alright, they can have London - nobody likes the place anyway.

    Any other suggestions?

  • Fishing
    Fishing Posts: 5,711
    edited March 2016
    Casino_Royale said:

    GideonWise said:

    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.

    Simon Jenkins is pretty sound until he gets onto anything to do with defence, terrorism or Westen foreign policy.

    Or housing, when he becomes a deranged NIMBY as bad as Bill Bryson.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    Pulpstar said:

    Plato_Says said:

    And this is Labour earlier this morning

    Rachael Reeves
    Given horrific events in Brussels surprised no government minister is making a statement in parliament re security/support for Belgium.

    Dear God, that's even worse than Pearson's tweet.
    "These attacks shows why it's essential for us to Remain in the EU and maintain cross-border security cooperation. And Leavers dare to say we'd be safer outside the EU! #strongerin"

    If a BSE staff member, yet alone a government minister, had written that, would we have got a new thread?
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Casino_Royale said:

    GideonWise said:

    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.

    Simon Jenkins is pretty sound until he gets onto anything to do with defence, terrorism or Westen foreign policy.

    I think he fulfils a similar role for the Guardian to that Rod Liddle does for the Spectator and the Sunday Times.
    Always weird to think Liddle is a Labour supporter.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Frankly I ignore him. He's such a patronising nitwit.
    Fishing said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    GideonWise said:

    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.

    Simon Jenkins is pretty sound until he gets onto anything to do with defence, terrorism or Westen foreign policy.

    Or housing, when he becomes a deranged NIMBY.
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    edited March 2016
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The problem isn't just that Ms Pearson tries to score a political point out before the bodies have even been counted, but that the point she makes is a complete non-sequitur.

    As regards the actual political impact, UK voters are a pretty sane lot. They know perfectly well that terrorism is an issue which is largely independent of whether we stay in the EU or not.

    Sorry I thought that one of Remain's main arguments is that Britain is 'safer' inside the EU? If voters know terrorism is an independent issue, then why is Remain bothering with what you have just admitted is a specious argument?
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Pulpstar said:

    Plato_Says said:

    And this is Labour earlier this morning

    Rachael Reeves
    Given horrific events in Brussels surprised no government minister is making a statement in parliament re security/support for Belgium.

    Dear God, that's even worse than Pearson's tweet.
    Senior ministers are likely to attend Cabinet sub-committee meetings on today's events. What would she have said if the most junior Minister was sent into Parliament to give a statement?
  • runnymede
    runnymede Posts: 2,536
    Quite - as usual the pious intonations about being 'responsible' and 'decent' in argument only apply to one side.
  • blackburn63
    blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    MS reminds me of Fawlty.

    Don't mention the war, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 2m2 minutes ago
    George Osborne enters the Commons in the middle of a speech about black cabs. Labour MPs: "TAXI!"
  • david_herdson
    david_herdson Posts: 18,357
    Also, following Pearson's logic, we'd have been better handing Ulster to Ireland, the Falklands to Argentina and Poland to Hitler. You cannot simply cut yourself off from the world when someone gets upset with your involvement (or that of someone like you).
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Words are always inadequate to describe our sense of outrage at these attacks.

    How about mime or interpretive dance?
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Honestly it is on days like these I am glad that Dave is our PM and how well he has handled the immigration crisis. The move to take 20,000 directly from the camps and not take any that crossed into our borders illegally is one of the single best decisions he has made as PM. I just imagine that PM Ed would have opened our borders and welcomed in 400,000 migrants with little to no checks done on their authenticity or the threat they pose to the country.
  • blackburn63
    blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    david_herdson said:

    Also, following Pearson's logic, we'd have been better handing Ulster to Ireland, the Falklands to Argentina and Poland to Hitler. You cannot simply cut yourself off from the world when someone gets upset with your involvement (or that of someone like you).

    Are you sure the comparison between the Falklands and Poland is accurate?
  • Toms
    Toms Posts: 2,478
    The web places on stage centre a fraction of humanity. The tweet window has internationalised the village pump, opening a box of shadows & nightmares. For instance, Tim Hunt was haunted to distraction by repercussions from a mindless tweet.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Stuart Millar
    Chilling quote from a Belgian counter-terror official to @mitchprothero https://t.co/1T1MgsMCh3 https://t.co/0kvxS9Awae
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    david_herdson said:

    Also, following Pearson's logic, we'd have been better handing Ulster to Ireland, the Falklands to Argentina and Poland to Hitler. You cannot simply cut yourself off from the world when someone gets upset with your involvement (or that of someone like you).

    Simon Jenkins' logic???
  • tlg86
    tlg86 Posts: 26,950
    Bumpity bump

    http://tinyurl.com/jzxkluy

    I don't remember Mike criticising Cameron for politicising terrorism.
  • runnymede
    runnymede Posts: 2,536
    Are you trying to set a new record for the most non-sequiturs in a single sentence, David?
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Alex Wickham
    Jeremy Corbyn statement on Brussels says we must "refuse to be drawn into a cycle of violence"
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Casino_Royale said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Plato_Says said:

    And this is Labour earlier this morning

    Rachael Reeves
    Given horrific events in Brussels surprised no government minister is making a statement in parliament re security/support for Belgium.

    Dear God, that's even worse than Pearson's tweet.
    "These attacks shows why it's essential for us to Remain in the EU and maintain cross-border security cooperation. And Leavers dare to say we'd be safer outside the EU! #strongerin"

    If a BSE staff member, yet alone a government minister, had written that, would we have got a new thread?
    This blog is run by Europhiles :)
  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    'a terrible tragedy not something on which to make a political point.'


    Perhaps it's just my take on this, but the entire thread appears to be making a political point, by attacking someone else, for making a political point.

    It is a tragedy however, on that we can all agree.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    So
    RodCrosby said:

    Move along. Nothing to see. All is well. Religion of Peace, etc...

    Sadly I was about to post the same.
  • CD13
    CD13 Posts: 6,386
    Mr Jessop,

    From the article cited on previous thread. "Baghdadi has spoken on camera only once. But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle."

    The last sentence is the point. IS are the main group, and as Ms Plato states, Jezza and his acolytes suggest a nice cup of tea and a biscuit with them. "Yes, old chap, I'm sure we can compromise. "

    We know Jezza is a dangerous loon but his fellow travellers also mean it. As for the oddball Christian "rapturists", their theory is that Armageddon will happen, not that they will cause it.

    If IS is negotiated with, they are probably correct.



    "
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited March 2016
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    So

    RodCrosby said:

    Move along. Nothing to see. All is well. Religion of Peace, etc...

    Sadly I was about to post the same.
    Countdown to "nothing to do with Islam"....

    Then "think about the backlash"

    Then rinse and repeat.
  • Casino_Royale
    Casino_Royale Posts: 63,687
    dr_spyn said:

    Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 2m2 minutes ago
    George Osborne enters the Commons in the middle of a speech about black cabs. Labour MPs: "TAXI!"

    Wow. Labour have done a funny.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    CD13 said:

    The IS aims are straightforward. Jezza suggests negotiations. I await a form of words that would satisfy IS in any circumstances other than their avowed aims.

    Perhaps we just give them the Sudetenland, and then perhaps Poland. Oh, alright, they can have London - nobody likes the place anyway.

    Any other suggestions?

    I think they would like us to let them sack Istanbul, and then beat them back to Dabiq in northern Syria where a final battle will occur near Jerusalem. Or variants thereof.

    Although this may not happen for some time, as apparently we still need four caliphs after the current one.

    Yes, they're that crazy.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35870571
    Labour is heading into May's assembly election with an opinion poll rating 14 points lower than in 2011.

    A YouGov poll suggests the party's support has slid since a similar poll before the 2011 assembly election. Polling experts said Labour was likely to be the biggest party after the election, but with fewer seats...

    On constituency votes the data, compiled for the Welsh Election Study, puts Labour on 34% (no change since February), Conservatives 22% (no change), Plaid Cymru 21% (+2), UKIP 15% (-3), the Liberal Democrats 6% (+1) and others 3% (+1).
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    Agreed.
  • brokenwheel
    brokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    SimonStClare said:

    'a terrible tragedy not something on which to make a political point.'


    Perhaps it's just my take on this, but the entire thread appears to be making a political point, by attacking someone else, for making a political point.

    It is a tragedy however, on that we can all agree.

    QFT. Usual faux outrage by apologist *****

  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    So is it just a question of timing? Allison Pearson points out the reality of REMAIN but she does it crassly and should have waited a day. REMAINERs meanwhile have been dumping End Of Days fear scenarios day after day. Some of them even talk about more terrorism arising from LEAVE.....

    As David Herdson points out, in betting terms this just piles up the votes for LEAVE. A fair comment just as some on here have speculated on by elections before the sad departed MP's body is still warm.
  • watford30
    watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Plato_Says said:

    Stuart Millar
    Chilling quote from a Belgian counter-terror official to @mitchprothero https://t.co/1T1MgsMCh3 https://t.co/0kvxS9Awae

    Perhaps we should be sending troops into Brussels?
  • AndrewD
    AndrewD Posts: 27
    Why can we not have political debates over tragic events? Hundreds of thousands died in Iraq... does that mean there shouldn't be political points there? People only play the this-is-beyond-politics card when they know an event is not good for their side.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Plato_Says said:

    And this is Labour earlier this morning

    Rachael Reeves
    Given horrific events in Brussels surprised no government minister is making a statement in parliament re security/support for Belgium.

    George Osborne just did
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    david_herdson said:

    Also, following Pearson's logic, we'd have been better handing Ulster to Ireland, the Falklands to Argentina and Poland to Hitler. You cannot simply cut yourself off from the world when someone gets upset with your involvement (or that of someone like you).

    Rubbish. She is saying that we should cut ourselves off from Belgium because Brussels is full of terrorists and terrorist sympathisers which the Belgian security services are either unable or unwilling to deal with. It is a stupid comment, however, it is not the same as giving the Falklands to Argentina or letting the Germans have Poland or even giving NI to the Republic. In all of those cases, there was an outside element which seeks to destabilise out nation or allies, in the case of Belgium and the EU, these terrorists are in Belgium and the EU already and they seek to destabilise us from within and we have a chance to leave the EU.
  • Wanderer
    Wanderer Posts: 3,838
    This "not a subject for point-scoring" thing is going well.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 28s28 seconds ago

    Wow. £212,506 of #EURef bets matched in past 24 hours on Betfair. REMAIN down 4% to 64%
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    CD13 said:

    Mr Jessop,

    From the article cited on previous thread. "Baghdadi has spoken on camera only once. But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle."

    The last sentence is the point. IS are the main group, and as Ms Plato states, Jezza and his acolytes suggest a nice cup of tea and a biscuit with them. "Yes, old chap, I'm sure we can compromise. "

    We know Jezza is a dangerous loon but his fellow travellers also mean it. As for the oddball Christian "rapturists", their theory is that Armageddon will happen, not that they will cause it.

    If IS is negotiated with, they are probably correct. "

    Yep, mostly agree with that. Negotiating with IS on broad-brush matters seems rather insane, given their end-game is so out of kilter with ours. Where do we even start?

    Although I think the Christian rapturists, particularly in the US, want to defend Israel because the latter will cause Armageddon. I hasten to add whilst I support Israel, it is not for that reason ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Welcome aboard, and yup.
    AndrewD said:

    Why can we not have political debates over tragic events? Hundreds of thousands died in Iraq... does that mean there shouldn't be political points there? People only play the this-is-beyond-politics card when they know an event is not good for their side.

  • AndrewD
    AndrewD Posts: 27
    MaxPB said:

    Honestly it is on days like these I am glad that Dave is our PM and how well he has handled the immigration crisis. The move to take 20,000 directly from the camps and not take any that crossed into our borders illegally is one of the single best decisions he has made as PM. I just imagine that PM Ed would have opened our borders and welcomed in 400,000 migrants with little to no checks done on their authenticity or the threat they pose to the country.

    In twenty years time, Germany will have a dozen Molenbeeks. We might too if we let them come here.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    GideonWise said:

    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.

    The West is to blame when it doesn't intervene (early stages of Yugoslave civil war, Syria) and the West is to blame when it does intervene (Bosnia, Kossovo, Afghanistan, Libya), Intervention, and non-intervention, equally demonstrate that the West hates Muslims.
  • Philip_Thompson
    Philip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    A point can be both tasteless and accurate.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    Plato_Says said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-35870571

    Labour is heading into May's assembly election with an opinion poll rating 14 points lower than in 2011.

    A YouGov poll suggests the party's support has slid since a similar poll before the 2011 assembly election. Polling experts said Labour was likely to be the biggest party after the election, but with fewer seats...

    On constituency votes the data, compiled for the Welsh Election Study, puts Labour on 34% (no change since February), Conservatives 22% (no change), Plaid Cymru 21% (+2), UKIP 15% (-3), the Liberal Democrats 6% (+1) and others 3% (+1).
    Beat me to it. Labour's Welsh Assembly poll numbers are just 1% up on 2007.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    FM: says she has research showing that increasing the top rate of tax in Scotland only "could put millions of pounds of revenue at risk".

    Looks like the Tories won in Scotland after all xD
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    taffys said:

    Sorry I thought that one of Remain's main arguments is that Britain is 'safer' inside the EU? If voters know terrorism is an independent issue, then why is Remain bothering with what you have just admitted is a specious argument?

    Don't ask me, I'm nothing to do with the Remain campaign.
  • Wanderer
    Wanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited March 2016
    Anyone watching? She means Farron surely! - Edit, she has deleted it. Would have been more than a dead cat.
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/712263776318439424
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    FM: says she has research showing that increasing the top rate of tax in Scotland only "could put millions of pounds of revenue at risk".

    Looks like the Tories won in Scotland after all xD

    @fatshez: So the official SNP position is if you want higher public spending supported by fair taxes we're better off in the UK. Bit awkward.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Wanderer said:

    Anyone watching? She means Farron surely!
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/712263776318439424

    Not totally inconcievable it could be Michael Fallon. But very unlikely...
  • runnymede
    runnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Honestly it is on days like these I am glad that Dave is our PM and how well he has handled the immigration crisis.'

    Yes, good to have to control of these key policies in the hands of our own government rather than a foreign politician with a completely different agenda, isn't it?

    Now how about extending that principle to all the main policy areas?
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Pulpstar said:

    Wanderer said:

    Anyone watching? She means Farron surely!
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/712263776318439424

    Not totally inconcievable it could be Michael Fallon. But very unlikely...
    Bernard Fallon from The Prestige? :lol:
  • CD13
    CD13 Posts: 6,386
    edited March 2016
    Ms Plato,

    "Jeremy Corbyn statement on Brussels says we must "refuse to be drawn into a cycle of violence"

    About par for Jezza. They want to wipe us out, so we refuse to be drawn into it. I suspect that may not be negotiable.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For our frequent fliers...
    And thankfully within days Mr P Bear - now the owner of a gold executive club card - was located by the British Airways team and flown back to Leeds Bradford Airport, West Yorks., to be reunited with his anxious family.

    The team made sure Pooh’s flight was extra luxurious and took pictures of his travels.

    Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/22/teddy-bear-finds-his-way-home-after-getting-left-behind-on-holiday-in-buenos-aires-5767966/#ixzz43dXXNmFT
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Sean_F said:

    GideonWise said:

    Outrage over a solitary Pearson tweet. Meanwhile over at the Guardian, we have Simon Jenkins trotting out the usual bilge blaming Western foreign policy in another Cif masterpiece.

    The West is to blame when it doesn't intervene (early stages of Yugoslave civil war, Syria) and the West is to blame when it does intervene (Bosnia, Kossovo, Afghanistan, Libya), Intervention, and non-intervention, equally demonstrate that the West hates Muslims.
    Indeed. When it comes to MENA involvement we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I'm in the let them do as they please and pull up the drawbridge camp. Let the Saudi's fend for themselves against Russian and Iranian aggression.
  • Fat_Steve
    Fat_Steve Posts: 361
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    So

    RodCrosby said:

    Move along. Nothing to see. All is well. Religion of Peace, etc...

    Sadly I was about to post the same.
    Countdown to "nothing to do with Islam"....

    Then "think about the backlash"

    Then rinse and repeat.
    Bleak but true. To a certain mindset, the "backlash" - Perhaps a woman in a headscarf being insulted on a bus - is always morally equivalent to deliberate murder and mutilation. Because , with a certain mindset, you need it to be.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2016
    Osborne on fighting form in the HoC right now

    @michaelsavage: Feels like Labour uniting the Tories here - may have been better to sit back a bit?
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    CD13 said:

    Ms Plato,

    "Jeremy Corbyn statement on Brussels says we must "refuse to be drawn into a cycle of violence"

    About par for Jezza. They want to wipe us out, so we refuse to be drawn into it. I suspect that may not be negotiable.

    Let them drink tea.
  • Alistair
    Alistair Posts: 23,670
    CD13 said:

    Mr Jessop,

    From the article cited on previous thread. "Baghdadi has spoken on camera only once. But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle."

    The last sentence is the point. IS are the main group, and as Ms Plato states, Jezza and his acolytes suggest a nice cup of tea and a biscuit with them. "Yes, old chap, I'm sure we can compromise. "

    We know Jezza is a dangerous loon but his fellow travellers also mean it. As for the oddball Christian "rapturists", their theory is that Armageddon will happen, not that they will cause it.

    If IS is negotiated with, they are probably correct.



    "

    It can only happen if Israel exists in their belief system. So they expend political energy supporting Israelis and destabilising its neighbours.
  • Wanderer
    Wanderer Posts: 3,838
    Pulpstar said:

    Wanderer said:

    Anyone watching? She means Farron surely!
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/712263776318439424

    Not totally inconcievable it could be Michael Fallon. But very unlikely...
    Was Farron apparently. She's deleted the tweet. Shame ;)
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited March 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Honestly it is on days like these I am glad that Dave is our PM and how well he has handled the immigration crisis. The move to take 20,000 directly from the camps and not take any that crossed into our borders illegally is one of the single best decisions he has made as PM. I just imagine that PM Ed would have opened our borders and welcomed in 400,000 migrants with little to no checks done on their authenticity or the threat they pose to the country.

    He won't get any credit of course for it, only criticism from the usual quarters. Only today, the BBC have a lovely thing on "no borders" arguments. And of course, only last night the idiots in the HoL won a vote to let in a load of "children" from the Jungle, despite the government representative explaining that over half of all Syrians taken so far under the goverment scheme are genuine Syrian refugee children. Hopefully the government will stand firm.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Osborne doesn't sound vcontrite. In fact, complete with supportive Qs from own side, he's back in full 'Isn't My Budget Brilliant?' mode
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    runnymede said:

    'Honestly it is on days like these I am glad that Dave is our PM and how well he has handled the immigration crisis.'
    Yes, good to have to control of these key policies in the hands of our own government rather than a foreign politician with a completely different agenda, isn't it?

    10 to 20 years time if we REMAIN.
  • PAW
    PAW Posts: 1,074
    Looks as though the Brussels bombs are a warning to security forces in Brussels of what will happen if they threaten the safe haven.
  • Viceroy
    Viceroy Posts: 128
    Pearson is 100% correct.

    The Remain campaign have brought up a whole host of subjects that have nothing to do with the European Union such as security and trade and have told us that we'll basically lose security and trade if we dare to vote leave: despite international security and trade not being an EU competence.

    So when we have open borders with a series of countries that are allowing in hundreds of thousands of highly radicalised people from a Civil War, we kinda have to point out that this is due to EU open borders. That's just a fact Mr. Smithson whether you like it or not.

    We're still to be told whether the attackers are refugees but if they are, would anybody with a thinking and working brain be as "shocked" as the Prime Minister claims to be?

    I certainly won't be shocked. Indeed I expected it to happen. And it'll happen again before the summer. And especially will when Turkey joins the EU extending our border to Syria/Iraq.
  • RodCrosby
    RodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...
    http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id3914
  • AndrewD
    AndrewD Posts: 27
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The problem isn't just that Ms Pearson tries to score a political point out before the bodies have even been counted, but that the point she makes is a complete non-sequitur.

    As regards the actual political impact, UK voters are a pretty sane lot. They know perfectly well that terrorism is an issue which is largely independent of whether we stay in the EU or not.

    International terrorism is intimately related to international movement of people. It is completely connected to immigration policy and the EU that stops us from controlling our borders.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Osborne doesn't sound vcontrite. In fact, complete with supportive Qs from own side, he's back in full 'Isn't My Budget Brilliant?' mode

    Those whom the gods wish to destroy etc....
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Osborne doesn't sound vcontrite. In fact, complete with supportive Qs from own side, he's back in full 'Isn't My Budget Brilliant?' mode

    Who says he is just like Brown...
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JGForsyth: Now that chutzpah: Osborne attacks Rachel Reeves for not thanking the government for the Leeds flood defence scheme announced in the Budget
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited March 2016
    AndrewD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Honestly it is on days like these I am glad that Dave is our PM and how well he has handled the immigration crisis. The move to take 20,000 directly from the camps and not take any that crossed into our borders illegally is one of the single best decisions he has made as PM. I just imagine that PM Ed would have opened our borders and welcomed in 400,000 migrants with little to no checks done on their authenticity or the threat they pose to the country.

    In twenty years time, Germany will have a dozen Molenbeeks. We might too if we let them come here.
    Completly inappropriate comment at a time like this for this site and the REMAIN europhile sensitivities. A dozen Molenbeeks is also completely accurate.

    Now if you said the outrage was a reason for voting REMAIN you would be invited to write a positive article for REMAIN.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    RodCrosby said:

    breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...

    What will the security costs be for Hinkley Point ?!

    Nuclear power is great in theory but it's another argument against it.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    Police have found an unexploded suicide vest at Brussels airport, according to Belgian broadcaster VTM.
This discussion has been closed.

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