George Osborne flanked by Michael Gove making a good case in difficult circumstances for him. Seems to have support from the backbenchers
No, the PM has the support of the backbenches and the likes of Gove. Osborne is a dead man walking, after the referendum he is gone whatever the result.
'International terrorism is intimately related to international movement of people. It is completely connected to immigration policy and the EU that stops us from controlling our borders.'
Yes - let's just be quite clear why this thread has been put up and why the usual suspects are piously calling for no 'political point scoring'.
It is because they are worried that making a political point from this will be effective i.e. negative for the Remain campaign.
George Osborne flanked by Michael Gove making a good case in difficult circumstances for him. Seems to have support from the backbenchers
No, the PM has the support of the backbenches and the likes of Gove. Osborne is a dead man walking, after the referendum he is gone whatever the result.
I agree he will be moved post the referendum but he does seem to be doing quite well in this debate
The problem isn't just that Ms Pearson tries to score a political point out before the bodies have even been counted, but that the point she makes is a complete non-sequitur.
As regards the actual political impact, UK voters are a pretty sane lot. They know perfectly well that terrorism is an issue which is largely independent of whether we stay in the EU or not.
International terrorism is intimately related to international movement of people. It is completely connected to immigration policy and the EU that stops us from controlling our borders.
Exactly, I don't know a single serious analyst who doesn't think so. Similarly I don't know anyone who thinks that the current terrorism threat isn't a by product of our disastrous interventionist policies in the Middle East and North Africa that have destroyed state structures and inflamed sentiment. Trump is right.
If the Tories had any sense they would move Osborne to something like Party leader, where he is out of the public eye and can play silly buggers, and install one of the worlds most boring men, Hammond, as CoE.
If the Tories had any sense they would move Osborne to something like Party leader, where he is out of the public eye and can play silly buggers, and install one of the worlds most boring men, Hammond, as CoE.
breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...
What will the security costs be for Hinkley Point ?!
Nuclear power is great in theory but it's another argument against it.
the sooner LFTR tech is mature the better...
MSRs are a great idea, the government should be investing money in research and development of them in Britain. Even the stupid idea from Rolls Royce about using PWRs for nuclear subs/ships as power generators is a better idea than spending £18bn on one power station.
Pulpstar @Pulpstar 29m29 minutes ago Thoughts and prayers with the good people of Brussels today.
Dr. Ben Carson @RealBenCarson 5m5 minutes ago My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families who are impacted by the terrorist attacks in Brussels. #prayforbrussels
If the Tories had any sense they would move Osborne to something like Party leader, where he is out of the public eye and can play silly buggers, and install one of the worlds most boring men, Hammond, as CoE.
If the Tories had any sense they would move Osborne to something like Party leader, where he is out of the public eye and can play silly buggers, and install one of the worlds most boring men, Hammond, as CoE.
No, it will have to be one of Gove, Boris or Patel who are the most prominent Leavers. May could be a good outside bet since she just doesn't seem to be getting involved in the debate and is keeping her head down after declaring for Remain.
@paulwaugh: Osborne doesn't sound vcontrite. In fact, complete with supportive Qs from own side, he's back in full 'Isn't My Budget Brilliant?' mode
Indeed but now
GOWNBPM mores the pity
Not a jot of contrition from the failed chancellor.
No wonder some on his own side think he is a cock.
The man who thought last week it was OK to cut the benefits of the disabled to pay for cuts to Capital Gains / Corporation Tax repeats rather unconvincingly "Were all in it together"
Labour is heading into May's assembly election with an opinion poll rating 14 points lower than in 2011.
A YouGov poll suggests the party's support has slid since a similar poll before the 2011 assembly election. Polling experts said Labour was likely to be the biggest party after the election, but with fewer seats...
On constituency votes the data, compiled for the Welsh Election Study, puts Labour on 34% (no change since February), Conservatives 22% (no change), Plaid Cymru 21% (+2), UKIP 15% (-3), the Liberal Democrats 6% (+1) and others 3% (+1).
Amazing in a way. A system designed to stop majority government nonetheless has Labour very close to a majority with 34% on the constituency vote and 31% on the regional.
Tories 100% behind Osborne with Gove right beside him. Written off too early?
No, this is the PM telling the backbenches to shut up. Look at the PM's statement yesterday, he stepped back from the brink and he has told his MPs to do the same. The underlying hostility towards Osborne is still there, it has just been papered over for a while because of loyalty for the PM.
Tories 100% behind Osborne with Gove right beside him. Written off too early?
He's not quite back into 7-4 territory yet, but those laying Osborne at any price could turn out to be expensive...
People forget 2 men have dominated UK politics for the last decade. Cameron is one of them.
One man has dominated UK politics for the last decade - Dave. Osborne rode in on his coat tails and without Dave he would not be chancellor, he may have just entered the Cabinet in energy or transport.
I think you are wrong about UK and European Muslims. This is a place where we have to look at the evidence, and the evidence is that there are many, many Muslims, a very large minority IMO, that support the aims of terrorists.
Western liberal society can never be compatible with Islam: Agree - 20% Disagree - 72%
Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammed deserve to be attacked: A - 11% D - 85%
It is deeply offensive to me personally when images of the Prophet Mohammed are published: A - 78% D - 20%
Acts of violence against against those who publish images of the Prophet Mohammed can never be justified: A - 68% D - 24%
I have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris: A - 27% D - 62%
I understand the motives of those who launch attacks in the name of Islam because the religion has been insulted: A - 32% D - 64%
I wasn't surprised that the Paris attacks happened: A - 32% D - 63%
There are between 20-25% of UK Muslims who support terrorist attacks or the aims of terrorists.
I'd forgotten this - it doesn't chime true with my personal impression from talking in depth to good numbers of Muslims who I consider I know well, particularly in the (middle-class) work place, but also back to my school days. A biased sample on my part, perhaps.
So, which of the above is really indicative of ill intent on the part of those respondents and which indicate the respondents' ears for nuance, which could well also be quite different amongst, for e.g., first generation Pakistani Muslims:
Perhaps not lack of surprise that [something akin to] the Paris attacks happened. I as White British could answer yes to that depending on how the mood took me. Likewise, understanding the motives [in a technical sense]. And, if I were Muslim, I may well have found the images offensive.
I'd also wonder if nuance were also at play in: Acts of violence...can never be justified [Well, you might give them a slap?], I have some sympathy for the motives [but not the actions].
Which leaves the first two questions as the worriers for me even taking account of any nuance in words like 'liberal' and the variety of things 'attacked' might mean.
We might also quote the 'Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws' (93 yes/6 no).
So, I could perhaps argue it down below 10% for those who have a general passive sympathy towards anti-Western attacks and a far smaller number than that likely to in any way become active. Not great, and I wouldn't consider to have 'won' any particular argument at this point simply by talking down the numbers a bit.
But I would also wonder how that might have compared with NI Catholics in the 1970s and what that might mean for the possibilities of reversing such attitudes.
breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...
What will the security costs be for Hinkley Point ?!
Nuclear power is great in theory but it's another argument against it.
the sooner LFTR tech is mature the better...
MSRs are a great idea, the government should be investing money in research and development of them in Britain. Even the stupid idea from Rolls Royce about using PWRs for nuclear subs/ships as power generators is a better idea than spending £18bn on one power station.
Nah, we need to go into aneutronic fusion. A French team are already doing great stuff.
breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...
What will the security costs be for Hinkley Point ?!
Nuclear power is great in theory but it's another argument against it.
the sooner LFTR tech is mature the better...
MSRs are a great idea, the government should be investing money in research and development of them in Britain. Even the stupid idea from Rolls Royce about using PWRs for nuclear subs/ships as power generators is a better idea than spending £18bn on one power station.
Nah, we need to go into aneutronic fusion. A French team are already doing great stuff.
A btl comment from the article @GideonWise mentioned above:
Here in Brussels they aren't even arresting the local ISIS jihadi boys who come back to their welfare checks after a holiday of rape, murder and sex slave enjoyment in Syria. Two summers ago during the pro Palestinian demonstrations the local Muslims were shouting "Kill the Jews!" through megaphones on the streets of Brussels while the Belgian police stood by and did nothing.
A btl comment from the article @GideonWise mentioned above:
Here in Brussels they aren't even arresting the local ISIS jihadi boys who come back to their welfare checks after a holiday of rape, murder and sex slave enjoyment in Syria. Two summers ago during the pro Palestinian demonstrations the local Muslims were shouting "Kill the Jews!" through megaphones on the streets of Brussels while the Belgian police stood by and did nothing.
breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...
What will the security costs be for Hinkley Point ?!
Nuclear power is great in theory but it's another argument against it.
the sooner LFTR tech is mature the better...
MSRs are a great idea, the government should be investing money in research and development of them in Britain. Even the stupid idea from Rolls Royce about using PWRs for nuclear subs/ships as power generators is a better idea than spending £18bn on one power station.
Nah, we need to go into aneutronic fusion. A French team are already doing great stuff.
It is. One of the big problems with ITER and 'conventional' fusion is it produces high-energy neutrons which can weaken materials, and even make them radioactive. So whilst you don't get radioactive waste in the traditional sense, you end up with a radioactive reactor that doesn't work.
For these reasons, they're planning the IFMIF lab to research the materials that will be needed to construct ITER.
If they manage near-neutronless fusion, the majority of that hassle will be removed. Even better, aneutronic fusion allows direct power conversion, so no need for the inefficient heat cycle that makes reactors even more dangerous.
The problem is it requires *much* higher energies (ten times, from memory)
Still, a long way to go, might not work, etc, etc. But the French work is *very* promising, especially the (I think) three beam experiments: one makes the plasma, another strips the electrons, and a third collides particles to fuse them.
Received a second mail slot yesterday from the Remain campaign, nothing as yet from the Leave side. – Are GO/LeaveUK etc, waiting for the Government funding to be awarded to the successful group chosen to lead the out campaign, before they can afford do anything?
Nelson Jones Today Brussels is "the European capital of jihad", yet only a few years ago other European governments used to complain about "Londonistan".
I'm not impressed in any shape or form with that performance from GO. Too arrogant, no contrition and too macho. His three hyperactive goons sat behind him, are doing him no favours at all. He has totally misjudged this.
Nelson Jones Today Brussels is "the European capital of jihad", yet only a few years ago other European governments used to complain about "Londonistan".
Labour is heading into May's assembly election with an opinion poll rating 14 points lower than in 2011.
A YouGov poll suggests the party's support has slid since a similar poll before the 2011 assembly election. Polling experts said Labour was likely to be the biggest party after the election, but with fewer seats...
On constituency votes the data, compiled for the Welsh Election Study, puts Labour on 34% (no change since February), Conservatives 22% (no change), Plaid Cymru 21% (+2), UKIP 15% (-3), the Liberal Democrats 6% (+1) and others 3% (+1).
May I suggest dear hosts that this is the subject of the next thread?
Received a second mail slot yesterday from the Remain campaign, nothing as yet from the Leave side. – Are GO/LeaveUK etc, waiting for the Government funding to be awarded to the successful group chosen to lead the out campaign, before they can afford do anything?
Nelson Jones Today Brussels is "the European capital of jihad", yet only a few years ago other European governments used to complain about "Londonistan".
We shouldn't kid ourselves that not still big problems here.
Received a second mail slot yesterday from the Remain campaign, nothing as yet from the Leave side. – Are GO/LeaveUK etc, waiting for the Government funding to be awarded to the successful group chosen to lead the out campaign, before they can afford do anything?
Me neither. They are woefully disorganised.
Only way you'll have got one is if a campaigner in your area has personally ordered a box of 1,000 leaflets from their website, paid for them himself/herself and then taken the initiative to go out and deliver them all.
Nelson Jones Today Brussels is "the European capital of jihad", yet only a few years ago other European governments used to complain about "Londonistan".
We shouldn't kid ourselves that not still big problems here.
True, but we can do something about those by voting in different politicians. How do we guard ourselves from Belgium's follies?
RE: Wales and the Yougov poll With Labour polling of 31%, it is so low on, I assume, unadjusted weightings post GE2015, there is room for a further drop of circa 2% within these numbers. There must be a tipping point below which Labour lose sheds loads of seats. Does any one have an idea where that is?
I really don't like McDonnell but he is more capable than his boss. A low bar admittedly.
Back in normal politicsland (ie once every five years when people take notice), McDonnell was shocking on Pienaar for the very mundane yet recidivist Labour habit of refusing to commit to cuts. For him, an absence of tax cuts for the "wealthy", rather than cuts in spending, would be sufficient to bring us back to surplus.
It is such boring but necessary issues as fiscal probity that will (win or) lose the next election for Lab.
Tom Newton Dunn #Budget debate now getting very nasty. Tom Tugendhat shouts at McDonnell: "He stands with bombers who murdered my friends in N Ireland".
13:44 GMT Belgian bomb squad DOVO has performed a controlled explosion at the premises of the Vrije University in Brussels, after a suspicious object was found at the campus, the university tweeted. The unidentified object was blown as a precaution measure. All students and staff were evacuated.
13:40 GMT Police are searching for a bomb at the Saint Pierre hospital in Brussels, Belga reported.
breaking: nuclear power plant "evacuated" in Belgium...
What will the security costs be for Hinkley Point ?!
Nuclear power is great in theory but it's another argument against it.
the sooner LFTR tech is mature the better...
MSRs are a great idea, the government should be investing money in research and development of them in Britain. Even the stupid idea from Rolls Royce about using PWRs for nuclear subs/ships as power generators is a better idea than spending £18bn on one power station.
Nah, we need to go into aneutronic fusion. A French team are already doing great stuff.
It is. One of the big problems with ITER and 'conventional' fusion is it produces high-energy neutrons which can weaken materials, and even make them radioactive. So whilst you don't get radioactive waste in the traditional sense, you end up with a radioactive reactor that doesn't work.
For these reasons, they're planning the IFMIF lab to research the materials that will be needed to construct ITER.
If they manage near-neutronless fusion, the majority of that hassle will be removed. Even better, aneutronic fusion allows direct power conversion, so no need for the inefficient heat cycle that makes reactors even more dangerous.
The problem is it requires *much* higher energies (ten times, from memory)
Still, a long way to go, might not work, etc, etc. But the French work is *very* promising, especially the (I think) three beam experiments: one makes the plasma, another strips the electrons, and a third collides particles to fuse them.
ITER just seems like a massive waste of money to me, I would like us to pull out of it and redirect the money towards laser fusion. It really does feel like the future of fusion.
Yes well fusion for an element with 5 protons is always going have a much higher ignition barrier than Hydrogen, but it should also give more energy.
RE: Wales and the Yougov poll With Labour polling of 31%, it is so low on, I assume, unadjusted weightings post GE2015, there is room for a further drop of circa 2% within these numbers. There must be a tipping point below which Labour lose sheds loads of seats. Does any one have an idea where that is?
I really don't like McDonnell but he is more capable than his boss. A low bar admittedly.
Back in normal politicsland (ie once every five years when people take notice), McDonnell was shocking on Pienaar for the very mundane yet recidivist Labour habit of refusing to commit to cuts. For him, an absence of tax cuts for the "wealthy", rather than cuts in spending, would be sufficient to bring us back to surplus.
It is such boring but necessary issues as fiscal probity that will (win or) lose the next election for Lab.
Oh I agree, his spend to save and invest to cut borrowing positions are completely ludicrous and will hopefully do Labour great harm in 2020. But he is still much better than his boss in the HoC.
Nelson Jones Today Brussels is "the European capital of jihad", yet only a few years ago other European governments used to complain about "Londonistan".
We shouldn't kid ourselves that not still big problems here.
There has been a major improvement over the last 3-5 years though. May and Dave have made it harder for terrorists to operate in this country and they have not shied away from targeting non-violent extremist messages.
We can do something about apologists here. We can vote them out. Trouble is, we own Belgium's policy too, because Belgians can come here freely.
In what conceivable world will Belgians not be able to come here freely, as indeed they mostly have throughout history?
Are you Leavers completely mad?
No, only some.
Unless you think they're all the same, in which case it would be wholly appropriate to conclude that all Remainers want full integration within the EU.
Comments
Gavin Lee BBC
Funeral hearses heading into #brusselsairport now #brusselsattack https://t.co/xjrrCYVUC2
22hrs ago
Belgium Prosecutor reports #Abdeslam was planning #Brussels attack"We found weapons in the house,we don't think he was organising a picnic"
Yes - let's just be quite clear why this thread has been put up and why the usual suspects are piously calling for no 'political point scoring'.
It is because they are worried that making a political point from this will be effective i.e. negative for the Remain campaign.
That creates a terrible difficulty for Bojo.
Pulpstar @Pulpstar 29m29 minutes ago
Thoughts and prayers with the good people of Brussels today.
Dr. Ben Carson @RealBenCarson 5m5 minutes ago
My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families who are impacted by the terrorist attacks in Brussels. #prayforbrussels
AP
BREAKING: Brussels mayor says at least 20 people died in subway attack near EU headquarters.
Belgium is a failed state
Brussels’ nest of radicalism is just one of the failings of a divided, dysfunctional country.
http://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-failed-state-security-services-molenbeek-terrorism/
'We are all in this together'.
Contrite he ain't
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Belgium
The problem for him now is he's no longer a safe pair of hands and his record will come under increasing scrutiny. Kaputt.
Belgian prosecutors told AFP the investigation into who was responsible is continuing, and they do not rule out terrorism or an "act of vengeance".
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-01-belgium-ageing-nuclear-neighbours.html#jCp
GOWNBPM mores the pity
Not a jot of contrition from the failed chancellor.
No wonder some on his own side think he is a cock.
The man who thought last week it was OK to cut the benefits of the disabled to pay for cuts to Capital Gains / Corporation Tax repeats rather unconvincingly "Were all in it together"
I think he has learnt nothing.
"Well I've worked with him pretty closely for several years now and so I know that the truth is that in person he's actually much worse than that."
Emma Thompson and husband Greg Wise pose naked with dead fish to highlight the plight of marine life
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3504178/Emma-Thompson-husband-Greg-Wise-pose-naked-dead-fish-highlight-plight-marine-life.html
So, which of the above is really indicative of ill intent on the part of those respondents and which indicate the respondents' ears for nuance, which could well also be quite different amongst, for e.g., first generation Pakistani Muslims:
Perhaps not lack of surprise that [something akin to] the Paris attacks happened. I as White British could answer yes to that depending on how the mood took me. Likewise, understanding the motives [in a technical sense]. And, if I were Muslim, I may well have found the images offensive.
I'd also wonder if nuance were also at play in: Acts of violence...can never be justified [Well, you might give them a slap?], I have some sympathy for the motives [but not the actions].
Which leaves the first two questions as the worriers for me even taking account of any nuance in words like 'liberal' and the variety of things 'attacked' might mean.
We might also quote the 'Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws' (93 yes/6 no).
So, I could perhaps argue it down below 10% for those who have a general passive sympathy towards anti-Western attacks and a far smaller number than that likely to in any way become active. Not great, and I wouldn't consider to have 'won' any particular argument at this point simply by talking down the numbers a bit.
But I would also wonder how that might have compared with NI Catholics in the 1970s and what that might mean for the possibilities of reversing such attitudes.
http://www.nature.com/news/two-laser-boron-fusion-lights-the-way-to-radiation-free-energy-1.13914
And if you like more related technical information:
http://hal.upmc.fr/hal-01284331/document
CBS/NYT poll: 82% of Republicans would support Trump if he's the nominee. 17% wouldn't. https://t.co/OavcXslGIM
@bbclaurak
Whatever happens debate, do note Osborne confirmed Crabb's position on no more welfare savings, a stronger statement than just 'no plans'
A modern-day Maigret, obviously...
Well that's their default approach to a lot of serious crimes - we shouldn't just single out Jihadism here,.
22% of #Arizona eligible voters are Hispanic, the 4th highest share in the nation. https://t.co/nymeoJrXFV https://t.co/rF28pddsNL
For these reasons, they're planning the IFMIF lab to research the materials that will be needed to construct ITER.
If they manage near-neutronless fusion, the majority of that hassle will be removed. Even better, aneutronic fusion allows direct power conversion, so no need for the inefficient heat cycle that makes reactors even more dangerous.
The problem is it requires *much* higher energies (ten times, from memory)
Still, a long way to go, might not work, etc, etc. But the French work is *very* promising, especially the (I think) three beam experiments: one makes the plasma, another strips the electrons, and a third collides particles to fuse them.
Today Brussels is "the European capital of jihad", yet only a few years ago other European governments used to complain about "Londonistan".
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/654636/Belgium-s-Tihange-nuclear-power-planet-evacuated-after-Brussels-terror-attack
Timmy Tour
Same Alan Johnson said in aftermath of Paris attacks that leaving EU would raise risk of us having similar attacks https://t.co/LdqpmiU4li
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
"I'm Sunil Prasannan, and I endorse this massage"
Only way you'll have got one is if a campaigner in your area has personally ordered a box of 1,000 leaflets from their website, paid for them himself/herself and then taken the initiative to go out and deliver them all.
Are you Leavers completely mad?
With Labour polling of 31%, it is so low on, I assume, unadjusted weightings post GE2015, there is room for a further drop of circa 2% within these numbers. There must be a tipping point below which Labour lose sheds loads of seats. Does any one have an idea where that is?
It is such boring but necessary issues as fiscal probity that will (win or) lose the next election for Lab.
#Budget debate now getting very nasty. Tom Tugendhat shouts at McDonnell: "He stands with bombers who murdered my friends in N Ireland".
Belgian bomb squad DOVO has performed a controlled explosion at the premises of the Vrije University in Brussels, after a suspicious object was found at the campus, the university tweeted. The unidentified object was blown as a precaution measure. All students and staff were evacuated.
13:40 GMT
Police are searching for a bomb at the Saint Pierre hospital in Brussels, Belga reported.
And that's even without pointing out that absolutely nothing whatsoever will change in respect of migration if we go for the EEA option.
We need to secure our borders.
Pot. Kettle.
Yes well fusion for an element with 5 protons is always going have a much higher ignition barrier than Hydrogen, but it should also give more energy.
Worth reading the entrails.
Unless you think they're all the same, in which case it would be wholly appropriate to conclude that all Remainers want full integration within the EU.