politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov London Mayoral poll has Sadiq with 7% lead
Comments
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It's an interesting borderline case, in my opinion. I was invited to speak to a segregated audience myself some 10 years ago, and agreed on the basis that both halves had equal opportunity to put questions - the women were just as challenging as the men. I didn't feel that it was reasonable as a guest at a mosque to lay down the law on how they ought to sit. But Mohammed Sarwar,then a Glasgow Muslim MP, told me that he'd said from the start that he'd never speak to a segregated audience - "segregate if you like, but don't expect me to come if you do". I thought it was easier for him as a Muslim, but I accept that I might have been wrong.NorfolkTilIDie said:
Think thats mostly right. Khan's support for gay marriage removes all doubt in my mind that he is influenced by hardline religion. Although I would prefer he calls it out more. I think that's Labour's problem. Not that they are extreme, but they go softly softly on religious conservatism so as not to upset voters. We really shouldn't be supporting events with segregated audiences.0 -
I think the risk of a stitch up would be greater if his main opponent wasn't Ted Cruz. If it's a brokered convention it probably comes down to who is ahead on the delegate total, Trump is alot closer to the normal Republican moderate (McCain, Romney etc) than Cruz in many ways.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I agree LondonBob. Also dividing the anti-Trump vote means (a) Trump is more likely to win but (b) he is less likely to get half of all delegates. Trump will want to prioritise (b), the risk of a stitch up is too great if he gets say 42% of delegates.LondonBob said:
The limits of quantitative modelling. Using bad data in the two polls he is feeding in and generalising across very different regions and states.RodCrosby said:Sam Wang: Trump needs to lose Ohio, to secure the nomination...
http://prospect.org/article/losing-ohio-improves-trump’s-chances-win-nomination
Trump would like nothing better than to be one on one with Cruz. Cruz will win the delegate poor plains and Rocky mountain states, Trump will sweep up all those delegates in the Far West, South West and North East.0 -
Just caught up with AQ on playback.
Peter whoever it was multi-millionaire agribusiness guy was about to blow my anecdotal "yes but how does it affect your industry" analysis out of the water by listing the actual damage EU law does to in this case farming in Lincolnshire.
And.....answer came there none. He complained about the Spanish flouting an existing EU law and...er...that was it. Soubry was excellent (sorry Nick) in asking exactly how EU laws discriminated against him. And he had no answer at all.
And he wanted free movement of people to help the 60% of his workers who are migrants (with Kate Hoey PBUH saying how she would prefer more people from Africa and the Caribbean picking caulis in Lincs).
This really is all game over tbh.0 -
Tories in Tartan opposing the Tartan Tories.CarlottaVance said:Won't that be nice - the SNP government AND Official Opposition as one on tax and austerity
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Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
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Interesting to see the Lab -> Con churn in Scotland. Corbyn really working wonders I expect!chestnut said:Tories pushing up towards 30% among pensioners in Scotland, and have close to a quarter of the ABC1's.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hsxl98o8mw/TimesResults_160310_ScotlandVI&Trackers.pdf
Also a high number of don't knows in the sample which means the Tories could be higher than they currently are given how Tories are seen in Scotland.0 -
@RupertMyers: "Sure, she's an anti-semite, but until you produce more recent evidence of this, she's our anti-semite" https://t.co/XZ2GfySvVP0
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Lots of Leave activity in Ledbury town centre on Saturday morning. Balloons leaflets etc. They seemed to be getting a broadly positive response from many shoppers. Mind you, if we lose small-town Deep England we really have no chance. Still working on getting the missus to allow me to put avposter in the window.0
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It was a typo: he meant isamic extremismisam said:
Nice, reasonable, mild mannered Nick casually equating supporting UKIP and Islamic ExtremismNickPalmer said:
I agree about getting a grip. My recollection is that he had two aides (out of how many I don't know) who turned out to have expressed dodgy views, the former husband of his long-divorced sister had expressed extreme views in the 1990s, and he'd attended meetings where people with extreme views also attended. The first is a valid point and shows the need for better vetting (which also applies to new party members, though there's a limit to how far you can check everyone). The second seems tosh to me. The third is to my mind also tosh - default for politicians is to go to meetings where you're asked to speak (I'd cheerfully go to a UKIP meeting if they let me put my views), and it doesn't mean you agree with everyone else - but others disagree.NorfolkTilIDie said:
I ain't been following closely, but hasn't it been groups Khan has supported and aides he has employed?? I think the Right over eggs this stuff, but the Left really needs to get a grip.
But they all fall down on the fact that he doesn't actually look or sound extreme, and isn't. These guilt by association things only really stick if people already suspect you of dodgy views yourself. Merely being a Muslim doesn't make most people think that, certainly not in London.
I'll get my coat...0 -
So that's Alistair Meeks then, this site's leading Isamophobercs1000 said:
It was a typo: he meant isamic extremismisam said:
Nice, reasonable, mild mannered Nick casually equating supporting UKIP and Islamic ExtremismNickPalmer said:
I agree about getting a grip. My recollection is that he had two aides (out of how many I don't know) who turned out to have expressed dodgy views, the former husband of his long-divorced sister had expressed extreme views in the 1990s, and he'd attended meetings where people with extreme views also attended. The first is a valid point and shows the need for better vetting (which also applies to new party members, though there's a limit to how far you can check everyone). The second seems tosh to me. The third is to my mind also tosh - default for politicians is to go to meetings where you're asked to speak (I'd cheerfully go to a UKIP meeting if they let me put my views), and it doesn't mean you agree with everyone else - but others disagree.NorfolkTilIDie said:
I ain't been following closely, but hasn't it been groups Khan has supported and aides he has employed?? I think the Right over eggs this stuff, but the Left really needs to get a grip.
But they all fall down on the fact that he doesn't actually look or sound extreme, and isn't. These guilt by association things only really stick if people already suspect you of dodgy views yourself. Merely being a Muslim doesn't make most people think that, certainly not in London.
I'll get my coat...0 -
@rustinpeace00: In saying that they'll only consider 'new evidence' in these anti-Semitism cases, Labour implies that they're OK with the current evidence.0
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@Markfergusonuk: How recent does your anti-semitism have to be that you are not welcome in the Labour Party?
How repellant is it that I have to ask that?0 -
What you can do is say that you think it wrong, that this is why it's wrong, that this is not how things should be done in this country etc. You can challenge. Now you may have done this.NickPalmer said:
It's an interesting borderline case, in my opinion. I was invited to speak to a segregated audience myself some 10 years ago, and agreed on the basis that both halves had equal opportunity to put questions - the women were just as challenging as the men. I didn't feel that it was reasonable as a guest at a mosque to lay down the law on how they ought to sit. But Mohammed Sarwar,then a Glasgow Muslim MP, told me that he'd said from the start that he'd never speak to a segregated audience - "segregate if you like, but don't expect me to come if you do". I thought it was easier for him as a Muslim, but I accept that I might have been wrong.NorfolkTilIDie said:
Think thats mostly right. Khan's support for gay marriage removes all doubt in my mind that he is influenced by hardline religion. Although I would prefer he calls it out more. I think that's Labour's problem. Not that they are extreme, but they go softly softly on religious conservatism so as not to upset voters. We really shouldn't be supporting events with segregated audiences.
But the argument against Khan and Livingstone and Corbyn and Slaughter and others is that they don't challenge. They give every impression that either they don't care or or, if they do, they don't have the courage to say anything or that they agree. And it is that which repels people like me who think that (a) people are equal under the law (b) the law should be applied equally and (c) it is abhorrent that in 21st century Britain a person's rights (usually but not exclusively a woman's rights) should effectively be determined by her religion and/or the culture of the place where her parents, her grand-parents or great-grand-parents were born.
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Neal Hudson
Central London's population as % of England's population
1801 to 2011 https://t.co/r5zOWpU0E40 -
The weighted sample ratio of 18-24 compared to 65+ is 2.7. This may be understating the 65+ and in Scotland the Conservative lead over Labour could be a little higher in this Yougov survey.Plato_Says said:The certain to vote and older demographics stats are much more credible than the headlines.
chestnut said:Tories pushing up towards 30% among pensioners in Scotland, and have close to a quarter of the ABC1's.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hsxl98o8mw/TimesResults_160310_ScotlandVI&Trackers.pdf
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Segregated meetings at Mosques or Synagogues don't bother me much. OTOH, local councillors pressing police and social services to ignore child rape bothers me very much.Cyclefree said:
What you can do is say that you think it wrong, that this is why it's wrong, that this is not how things should be done in this country etc. You can challenge. Now you may have done this.NickPalmer said:
It's an interesting borderline case, in my opinion. I was invited to speak to a segregated audience myself some 10 years ago, and agreed on the basis that both halves had equal opportunity to put questions - the women were just as challenging as the men. I didn't feel that it was reasonable as a guest at a mosque to lay down the law on how they ought to sit. But Mohammed Sarwar,then a Glasgow Muslim MP, told me that he'd said from the start that he'd never speak to a segregated audience - "segregate if you like, but don't expect me to come if you do". I thought it was easier for him as a Muslim, but I accept that I might have been wrong.NorfolkTilIDie said:
Think thats mostly right. Khan's support for gay marriage removes all doubt in my mind that he is influenced by hardline religion. Although I would prefer he calls it out more. I think that's Labour's problem. Not that they are extreme, but they go softly softly on religious conservatism so as not to upset voters. We really shouldn't be supporting events with segregated audiences.
But the argument against Khan and Livingstone and Corbyn and Slaughter and others is that they don't challenge. They give every impression that either they don't care or or, if they do, they don't have the courage to say anything or that they agree. And it is that which repels people like me who think that (a) people are equal under the law (b) the law should be applied equally and (c) it is abhorrent that in 21st century Britain a person's rights (usually but not exclusively a woman's rights) should effectively be determined by her religion and/or the culture of the place where her parents, her grand-parents or great-grand-parents were born.0 -
If UKIP manage 7% in the Mayoral election, they should easily clear the threshold to win seats in the Assembly. 5% gives 1 seat, 6% 2 seats, 9% 3 seats.0
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Indeed. Canvassing in inner London yesterday revealed almost unanimous support for Remain. About 10 of us were out for a couple of hours and I was told that only two Leaves had been found in about 100 contacts.FattyBolger said:Lots of Leave activity in Ledbury town centre on Saturday morning. Balloons leaflets etc. They seemed to be getting a broadly positive response from many shoppers. Mind you, if we lose small-town Deep England we really have no chance.
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Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.0 -
I think there are individual wards that could easily be 80% for either Leave or Remain.anothernick said:
Indeed. Canvassing in inner London yesterday revealed almost unanimous support for Remain. About 10 of us were out for a couple of hours and I was told that only two Leaves had been found in about 100 contacts.FattyBolger said:Lots of Leave activity in Ledbury town centre on Saturday morning. Balloons leaflets etc. They seemed to be getting a broadly positive response from many shoppers. Mind you, if we lose small-town Deep England we really have no chance.
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Actually, I think TSE is the biggest isamaphobe.Alanbrooke said:
So that's Alistair Meeks then, this site's leading Isamophobercs1000 said:
It was a typo: he meant isamic extremismisam said:
Nice, reasonable, mild mannered Nick casually equating supporting UKIP and Islamic ExtremismNickPalmer said:
I agree about getting a grip. My recollection is that he had two aides (out of how many I don't know) who turned out to have expressed dodgy views, the former husband of his long-divorced sister had expressed extreme views in the 1990s, and he'd attended meetings where people with extreme views also attended. The first is a valid point and shows the need for better vetting (which also applies to new party members, though there's a limit to how far you can check everyone). The second seems tosh to me. The third is to my mind also tosh - default for politicians is to go to meetings where you're asked to speak (I'd cheerfully go to a UKIP meeting if they let me put my views), and it doesn't mean you agree with everyone else - but others disagree.NorfolkTilIDie said:
I ain't been following closely, but hasn't it been groups Khan has supported and aides he has employed?? I think the Right over eggs this stuff, but the Left really needs to get a grip.
But they all fall down on the fact that he doesn't actually look or sound extreme, and isn't. These guilt by association things only really stick if people already suspect you of dodgy views yourself. Merely being a Muslim doesn't make most people think that, certainly not in London.
I'll get my coat...
Nigel4England is probably its biggest isamaphile.
I'm having fun with this
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Those quotes from that lady should have resulted in a lifetime ban. The fact that it did not speaks volumes about the morals of the Labour party.Scott_P said:@rustinpeace00: In saying that they'll only consider 'new evidence' in these anti-Semitism cases, Labour implies that they're OK with the current evidence.
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Thanks for this.TCPoliticalBetting said:
The weighted sample ratio of 18-24 compared to 65+ is 2.7. This may be understating the 65+ and in Scotland the Conservative lead over Labour could be a little higher in this Yougov survey.Plato_Says said:The certain to vote and older demographics stats are much more credible than the headlines.
chestnut said:Tories pushing up towards 30% among pensioners in Scotland, and have close to a quarter of the ABC1's.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hsxl98o8mw/TimesResults_160310_ScotlandVI&Trackers.pdf0 -
That's very interesting.Plato_Says said:Neal Hudson
Central London's population as % of England's population
1801 to 2011 https://t.co/r5zOWpU0E40 -
Alastair Meeks is right about expecting the unexpected on the EU ref.
Who'd have thought Jeremy Clarkson would come out for a United States of Europe - one currency, one army, and one plug - as he did in the Sunday Times yesterday?0 -
Tom Watson going for Gove.
I fear he maybe successful0 -
And where in London matters a great deal here.anothernick said:
Indeed. Canvassing in inner London yesterday revealed almost unanimous support for Remain. About 10 of us were out for a couple of hours and I was told that only two Leaves had been found in about 100 contacts.FattyBolger said:Lots of Leave activity in Ledbury town centre on Saturday morning. Balloons leaflets etc. They seemed to be getting a broadly positive response from many shoppers. Mind you, if we lose small-town Deep England we really have no chance.
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Stunned, something sensible from Owen.
@OwenJones84
Any anti-Semite found to be in Labour needs to be booted out on the spot. The end.0 -
Another interesting bit of historical social commentary comes in a Dorothy Sayers novel (I forget which one) where a philanderer is murdered and, for much of the novel, the chief suspect is a woman who he seduced, by promising to marry her, and then abandoned. Everyone is enormously sympathetic to her, treating murder as a reasonable response to such dishonourable behaviour.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.0 -
@DPJHodges: The issue isn't why Vicki Kirby was allowed back into the Labour party. The issue is why did Vicki Kirby think Labour was the party for her.
@DPJHodges: By the way, the answer to my question is the reason Vicki Kirby thought Labour was the party for her is because it is the party for her.0 -
It's not either or, though, is it? First, it's segregated meetings at mosques. Then it turns into segregated meetings at universities because the speaker doesn't like it. Then we have segregation of pupils in primary schools. And an attitude to the female of the species which thinks that "she" is worth less than a "he" is going to make it easier for those many "shes" of many ages to be raped and to be ignored by the authorities.Sean_F said:
Segregated meetings at Mosques or Synagogues don't bother me much. OTOH, local councillors pressing police and social services to ignore child rape bothers me very much.Cyclefree said:
What you can do is say that you think it wrong, that this is why it's wrong, that this is not how things should be done in this country etc. You can challenge. Now you may have done this.NickPalmer said:
It's an interesting borderline case, in my opinion. I was invited to speak to a segregated audience myself some 10 years ago, and agreed on the basis that both halves had equal opportunity to put questions - the women were just as challenging as the men. I didn't feel that it was reasonable as a guest at a mosque to lay down the law on how they ought to sit. But Mohammed Sarwar,then a Glasgow Muslim MP, told me that he'd said from the start that he'd never speak to a segregated audience - "segregate if you like, but don't expect me to come if you do". I thought it was easier for him as a Muslim, but I accept that I might have been wrong.NorfolkTilIDie said:
Think thats mostly right. Khan's support for gay marriage removes all doubt in my mind that he is influenced by hardline religion. Although I would prefer he calls it out more. I think that's Labour's problem. Not that they are extreme, but they go softly softly on religious conservatism so as not to upset voters. We really shouldn't be supporting events with segregated audiences.
But the argument against Khan and Livingstone and Corbyn and Slaughter and others is that they don't challenge. They give every impression that either they don't care or or, if they do, they don't have the courage to say anything or that they agree. And it is that which repels people like me who think that (a) people are equal under the law (b) the law should be applied equally and (c) it is abhorrent that in 21st century Britain a person's rights (usually but not exclusively a woman's rights) should effectively be determined by her religion and/or the culture of the place where her parents, her grand-parents or great-grand-parents were born.
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I'll give him credit: unlike many other Europhiles, he's honest about the direction of travel he wants. Now, as it happens, I disagree with him. But at least he's not attempt to hoodwink people by suggesting they get "just a little bit pregnant."Casino_Royale said:Alastair Meeks is right about expecting the unexpected on the EU ref.
Who'd have thought Jeremy Clarkson would come out for a United States of Europe - one currency, one army, and one plug - as he did in the Sunday Times yesterday?0 -
OT this is most amusing
To cheer your morning.
The small print bottom right is priceless! https://t.co/HNfbwMjTou0 -
Why don't we compromise? Let London remain in, and the rest of us will leave.0
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@J_Bloodworth: Nick Griffin's membership application has just landed on a desk somewhere in Brewer's Green.0
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There is a line, though.Cyclefree said:It's not either or, though, is it? First, it's segregated meetings at mosques. Then it turns into segregated meetings at universities because the speaker doesn't like it. Then we have segregation of pupils in primary schools. And an attitude to the female of the species which thinks that "she" is worth less than a "he" is going to make it easier for those many "shes" of many ages to be raped and to be ignored by the authorities.
I went to an orthodox Jewish wedding. The men and the women were separated during the service.
I didn't call for this to end: that's just the nature of going to a wedding in a synagogue.0 -
Less extremist than some current members....Scott_P said:@J_Bloodworth: Nick Griffin's membership application has just landed on a desk somewhere in Brewer's Green.
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There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
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Strong Poison. An outstandingly good read.Sean_F said:
Another interesting bit of historical social commentary comes in a Dorothy Sayers novel (I forget which one) where a philanderer is murdered and, for much of the novel, the chief suspect is a woman who he seduced, by promising to marry her, and then abandoned. Everyone is enormously sympathetic to her, treating murder as a reasonable response to such dishonourable behaviour.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.0 -
Havering has already voted to LEAVE.. I was seriously thinking earlier if there was a way we could vote to leave London?rcs1000 said:
East London should be allowed to vote Out too. Otherwise poor isam will have a coronary.CD13 said:Why don't we compromise? Let London remain in, and the rest of us will leave.
...and Alastair Meeks is no isamophobe!0 -
Wonderful Alice in Wonderland stuff in the Commons:
Labour’s Kevin Brennan says it would be better if Gove were to come to the Commons and issue a categorical denial.
Grayling says Clegg has said this conversation did not take place, so a denial is unnecessary.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/mar/14/eu-referendum-boris-johnson-criticised-after-accusing-obama-of-hypocrisy-over-brexit-politics-live
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A wedding is a private affair. A political meeting is not.rcs1000 said:
There is a line, though.Cyclefree said:It's not either or, though, is it? First, it's segregated meetings at mosques. Then it turns into segregated meetings at universities because the speaker doesn't like it. Then we have segregation of pupils in primary schools. And an attitude to the female of the species which thinks that "she" is worth less than a "he" is going to make it easier for those many "shes" of many ages to be raped and to be ignored by the authorities.
I went to an orthodox Jewish wedding. The men and the women were separated during the service.
I didn't call for this to end: that's just the nature of going to a wedding in a synagogue.
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Of course we won't go the whole way to getting pregnant, it's just foreplay with a marmoset.rcs1000 said:
I'll give him credit: unlike many other Europhiles, he's honest about the direction of travel he wants. Now, as it happens, I disagree with him. But at least he's not attempt to hoodwink people by suggesting they get "just a little bit pregnant."Casino_Royale said:Alastair Meeks is right about expecting the unexpected on the EU ref.
Who'd have thought Jeremy Clarkson would come out for a United States of Europe - one currency, one army, and one plug - as he did in the Sunday Times yesterday?0 -
I can't work out if he really means what he's saying, or if he's just gone a bit SeanT.rcs1000 said:
I'll give him credit: unlike many other Europhiles, he's honest about the direction of travel he wants. Now, as it happens, I disagree with him. But at least he's not attempt to hoodwink people by suggesting they get "just a little bit pregnant."Casino_Royale said:Alastair Meeks is right about expecting the unexpected on the EU ref.
Who'd have thought Jeremy Clarkson would come out for a United States of Europe - one currency, one army, and one plug - as he did in the Sunday Times yesterday?0 -
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.0 -
There are now many people in the Labour Party who would not know anti-Semitism if they were looking at it.TCPoliticalBetting said:Stunned, something sensible from Owen.
@OwenJones84
Any anti-Semite found to be in Labour needs to be booted out on the spot. The end.0 -
What! You mean he might be desperate to keep his highly paid column and is delivering clickbait???Casino_Royale said:
I can't work out if he really means what he's saying, or if he's just gone a bit SeanT.rcs1000 said:
I'll give him credit: unlike many other Europhiles, he's honest about the direction of travel he wants. Now, as it happens, I disagree with him. But at least he's not attempt to hoodwink people by suggesting they get "just a little bit pregnant."Casino_Royale said:Alastair Meeks is right about expecting the unexpected on the EU ref.
Who'd have thought Jeremy Clarkson would come out for a United States of Europe - one currency, one army, and one plug - as he did in the Sunday Times yesterday?0 -
Migrant crisis: Scores cross from Greece into Macedonia
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35805010
Love the terminology..."after finding a way through the border fence."...what you mean is broke through it.0 -
How ironic that as Tom Watson is undertaking his tawdry "Urgent Question" (PR stunt) the Queen and PM are at Westminster Abbey for Commonwealth Day Service.
I suppose it makes the Labour Party relevant at least for half an hour! But what a waste of Parliamentary time.0 -
No, I don't think I agree. Like a lot of slippery slope arguments, it elides things one doesn't feel are sensible with things which are monstrous, and implies that one must lead to the other. I think that standing up to abuse and belittling of women is absolutely crucial, but demanding that they sit in the same space rather than a parallel space is not. And if one attacks both, it risks devaluing the important part, because it suggests a rejection of the entire culture rather than only of the parts that are actually harmful. Apart from being dubious as an attitude (all our cultures have peculiarities, frankly), it is an ineffective approach.Cyclefree said:
It's not either or, though, is it? First, it's segregated meetings at mosques. Then it turns into segregated meetings at universities because the speaker doesn't like it. Then we have segregation of pupils in primary schools. And an attitude to the female of the species which thinks that "she" is worth less than a "he" is going to make it easier for those many "shes" of many ages to be raped and to be ignored by the authorities.0 -
It's a very effective psychological trick by manipulative bullies.Sean_F said:
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
The self-esteem and confidence of the victim gets knocked so low they don't think they deserve anything better and don't have the internal strength of will to break free of it anymore either.0 -
More amusement:
Labour’s Dennis Skinner says he has never been to the Palace. He says that to him the most strange aspect of this is: “What on earth was the Queen doing confiding in Clegg?”
Grayling says he hopes Skinner will get to go to the Palace before he ends his career.
0 -
Is a great session of ParliamentRichard_Nabavi said:More amusement:
Labour’s Dennis Skinner says he has never been to the Palace. He says that to him the most strange aspect of this is: “What on earth was the Queen doing confiding in Clegg?”
Grayling says he hopes Skinner will get to go to the Palace before he ends his career.0 -
And they wonder why people feel detached from politics and that there is this widely held belief that politicians don't live in the real world...Richard_Nabavi said:More amusement:
Labour’s Dennis Skinner says he has never been to the Palace. He says that to him the most strange aspect of this is: “What on earth was the Queen doing confiding in Clegg?”
Grayling says he hopes Skinner will get to go to the Palace before he ends his career.0 -
Wait, are we talking about SeanT again?Casino_Royale said:
It's a very effective psychological trick by manipulative bullies.Sean_F said:
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
The self-esteem and confidence of the victim gets knocked so low they don't think they deserve anything better and don't have the internal strength of will to break free of it anymore either.0 -
Well, if you have young children and/or have invested emotionally in the relationship, then it is very hard indeed to admit to yourself that you have made a mistake. Plus you may be emotionally browbeaten so that you are no longer thinking clearly. When something goes wrong it is very hard for anyone to say that they are not at fault in some way. Bullies prey on that and can be very charming as well. And women are (at the risk of stereotyping) very good at internalising what others think of them and/or of taking responsibility for others, even at the cost of taking responsibility for the bad things that other people do to them, bizarre as that may seem.Sean_F said:
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
Domestic abuse is not limited to particular cultures of course (nor are women its only victims). So this is a complex subject. But that makes it even more imperative not to collude in or turn a blind eye to cultural views and practices which may make such abuse more likely and/or more hidden.
0 -
Watson got slammed back in his cage rather quickly..0
-
;-)rcs1000 said:
Wait, are we talking about SeanT again?Casino_Royale said:
It's a very effective psychological trick by manipulative bullies.Sean_F said:
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
The self-esteem and confidence of the victim gets knocked so low they don't think they deserve anything better and don't have the internal strength of will to break free of it anymore either.0 -
It drove Erin Pizzey to distraction: didn't she think it as bad as the physical abuse itself?Casino_Royale said:
It's a very effective psychological trick by manipulative bullies.Sean_F said:
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.FrancisUrquhart said:
IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.Cyclefree said:
The abandonment by the Left (or a significant part of it) of its moral compass in order to flirt with and embrace people and groups who, were they not a bit dark-skinned and/or claiming to be religious, would in other times be described by the Left as fascists is an utter disgrace. Without a moral compass Labour is nothing. Nothing worthwhile, IMO, anyway.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
The self-esteem and confidence of the victim gets knocked so low they don't think they deserve anything better and don't have the internal strength of will to break free of it anymore either.
0 -
I much prefer Rod Liddle, he really knows how to offend the PC classes. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/rodliddle/article1677349.ece
His piss take on German sexual etiquette classes for migrants was hilarious - shout 'Allahu Akbar' on finding the G Spot orgasm.rcs1000 said:
What! You mean he might be desperate to keep his highly paid column and is delivering clickbait???Casino_Royale said:
I can't work out if he really means what he's saying, or if he's just gone a bit SeanT.rcs1000 said:
I'll give him credit: unlike many other Europhiles, he's honest about the direction of travel he wants. Now, as it happens, I disagree with him. But at least he's not attempt to hoodwink people by suggesting they get "just a little bit pregnant."Casino_Royale said:Alastair Meeks is right about expecting the unexpected on the EU ref.
Who'd have thought Jeremy Clarkson would come out for a United States of Europe - one currency, one army, and one plug - as he did in the Sunday Times yesterday?0 -
I find your approach odd. You seem to find it very difficult to understand that there is a common theme to all of these items: a hatred or contempt for women, a belief that they are lesser beings or less worthy of protection, education, rights. You seem to think that some of this is "not being sensible" and others "monstrous". Well, I agree that child rape is monstrous.NickPalmer said:
No, I don't think I agree. Like a lot of slippery slope arguments, it elides things one doesn't feel are sensible with things which are monstrous, and implies that one must lead to the other. I think that standing up to abuse and belittling of women is absolutely crucial, but demanding that they sit in the same space rather than a parallel space is not. And if one attacks both, it risks devaluing the important part, because it suggests a rejection of the entire culture rather than only of the parts that are actually harmful. Apart from being dubious as an attitude (all our cultures have peculiarities, frankly), it is an ineffective approach.Cyclefree said:
It's not either or, though, is it? First, it's segregated meetings at mosques. Then it turns into segregated meetings at universities because the speaker doesn't like it. Then we have segregation of pupils in primary schools. And an attitude to the female of the species which thinks that "she" is worth less than a "he" is going to make it easier for those many "shes" of many ages to be raped and to be ignored by the authorities.
But unlike you I reject a culture which views women as lesser beings and not just those bits of it which lead to child rape. A culture which says that girls should be denied education or a role in the public space is not acceptable provided the men from such a culture manage, through heroic self-control, not to rape the women they think not as good as them.
0 -
The man who months before the GE kept on predicting a Tory Majority, has chipped in
https://twitter.com/StephenDFisher/status/7082224553625436160 -
@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX0
-
That's not exactly a surprise. I can't see even on PB anyone predicting a Leave win.TheScreamingEagles said:The man who months before the GE kept on predicting a Tory Majority for months, has chipped in
@StephenDFisher: My first Brexit referendum forecast with @alanjrenwick : Remain 58% vote 87% chance of winning. Based on x-nat historic and current uk polls0 -
Martin Boon
@ICMResearch @guardian_clark March #poll. @Conservatives 36% @UKLabour 36% @LibDems 8% @UKIP 11%, @TheGreenParty 3% Others 7%. Hmmm.0 -
That's what I went for in the pb.com prediction competitionTheScreamingEagles said:The man who months before the GE kept on predicting a Tory Majority for months, has chipped in
https://twitter.com/StephenDFisher/status/7082224553625436160 -
I find it extraordinary that someone who's been an MP for close to half a century hasn't had a visit to the Palace at some point. I'd have thought that just about all of them would get there for some reason or another every decade or so, at the outside.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they wonder why people feel detached from politics and that there is this widely held belief that politicians don't live in the real world...Richard_Nabavi said:More amusement:
Labour’s Dennis Skinner says he has never been to the Palace. He says that to him the most strange aspect of this is: “What on earth was the Queen doing confiding in Clegg?”
Grayling says he hopes Skinner will get to go to the Palace before he ends his career.0 -
He was trying to say Privy Council but couldn't remember the words, so he said Palace insteaddavid_herdson said:I find it extraordinary that someone who's been an MP for close to half a century hasn't had a visit to the Palace at some point. I'd have thought that just about all of them would get there for some reason or another every decade or so, at the outside.
0 -
? Do MPs mostly go to the palace ?david_herdson said:
I find it extraordinary that someone who's been an MP for close to half a century hasn't had a visit to the Palace at some point. I'd have thought that just about all of them would get there for some reason or another every decade or so, at the outside.FrancisUrquhart said:
And they wonder why people feel detached from politics and that there is this widely held belief that politicians don't live in the real world...Richard_Nabavi said:More amusement:
Labour’s Dennis Skinner says he has never been to the Palace. He says that to him the most strange aspect of this is: “What on earth was the Queen doing confiding in Clegg?”
Grayling says he hopes Skinner will get to go to the Palace before he ends his career.
Thought it was more a PM/Minister thing at the most.0 -
0
-
@WikiGuido: Vicki Kirby's partner - the chair of Woking Labour - sent her a video saying ISIS is a CIA conspiracy https://t.co/evJok3FVUd0
-
Car Crash continues...
Vicki Kirby’s boyfriend Barry Faulkner is the chair of Woking Labour. His Facebook posts give an insight into what the couple discuss over the dinner table. In one post, made after Kirby’s suspension from the Labour Party, Faulkner sends her a link to a video titled “ISIS exposed 100% as CIA operation”, commenting “worth a look at some of this Vicki Kirby”.
Faulkner and Kirby – the chair and vice-chair of Woking Labour – have been publicly sharing content suggesting ISIS is a CIA conspiracy and joking about their own anti-Semitism. Crucially, this happened after Kirby was suspended by Labour, so can be seen as “new evidence”
http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/new-evidence-emerges-isis-100-cia-operation/0 -
Listening to Tom Watson's urgent question on Gove, Chris Grayling played a straight bat and the question seemed to get nowhere. However, in the real world has this issue now diminished Gove's role in the leave campaign as he is going to be asked every time the press are near, did he breach Privy Council rules?0
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Corbynism sweeping the nation...Speedy said:Now that was unexpected:
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/7094104747948605440 -
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
0 -
Can you imagine 30 years ago a left winger defending gender segregation? In an effort to not upset certain voting blocks, left wingers are now convincing themselves its just a "peculiarity". I feel so alienated from both left and right these days.Cyclefree said:
I find your approach odd. You seem to find it very difficult to understand that there is a common theme to all of these items: a hatred or contempt for women, a belief that they are lesser beings or less worthy of protection, education, rights. You seem to think that some of this is "not being sensible" and others "monstrous". Well, I agree that child rape is monstrous.NickPalmer said:
No, I don't think I agree. Like a lot of slippery slope arguments, it elides things one doesn't feel are sensible with things which are monstrous, and implies that one must lead to the other. I think that standing up to abuse and belittling of women is absolutely crucial, but demanding that they sit in the same space rather than a parallel space is not. And if one attacks both, it risks devaluing the important part, because it suggests a rejection of the entire culture rather than only of the parts that are actually harmful. Apart from being dubious as an attitude (all our cultures have peculiarities, frankly), it is an ineffective approach.Cyclefree said:
It's not either or, though, is it? First, it's segregated meetings at mosques. Then it turns into segregated meetings at universities because the speaker doesn't like it. Then we have segregation of pupils in primary schools. And an attitude to the female of the species which thinks that "she" is worth less than a "he" is going to make it easier for those many "shes" of many ages to be raped and to be ignored by the authorities.
But unlike you I reject a culture which views women as lesser beings and not just those bits of it which lead to child rape. A culture which says that girls should be denied education or a role in the public space is not acceptable provided the men from such a culture manage, through heroic self-control, not to rape the women they think not as good as them.0 -
Best news for Tories in ages. Jezza stays.Speedy said:Now that was unexpected:
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/7094104747948605440 -
It is not surprising with the Conservatives doing battle over Europe but does anyone think that in a real GE Corbyn's labour would be anywhere near power. Indeed I would expect that by the Autumn with a new Cabinet the Conservatives will regain the initiativeCyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
0 -
I wish they would concentrate on EU polls instead of wasting time on voting intentions.Plato_Says said:Martin Boon
@ICMResearch @guardian_clark March #poll. @Conservatives 36% @UKLabour 36% @LibDems 8% @UKIP 11%, @TheGreenParty 3% Others 7%. Hmmm.0 -
"A simple model based on two predictors — the racial composition of the Democratic primary electorate and a dummy variable for region — explain over 90% of the variance in Hillary Clinton’s vote share in this year’s Democratic primaries through March 8. "
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/a-simple-model-for-predicting-hillary-clintons-vote-in-the-march-15-democratic-primaries/
0 -
I honestly thought for a moment he was talking about the EU and its supporters!!rcs1000 said:
Wait, are we talking about SeanT again?Casino_Royale said:
It's a very effective psychological trick by manipulative bullies.Sean_F said:
Sadly, it's enormously common for victims of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse to blame themselves for what took place. I wonder if, for some people, it's a coping mechanism.Cyclefree said:
There was an article about domestic violence in the Sunday papers where a lot of the victims took that attitude. And one whole story line in the Archers is based on just this view: the victim accepting the responsibility for what happens to her because she believes she is not worth it.rcs1000 said:
Apropos of nothing, I was (re-)reading a Dorothy L Sayers novel yesterday, and one of the characters said: "He's my man, he's got a right to hit me."Cyclefree said:
Agreed. Labour have no moral authority to talk about racism or sexism or homophobia or other similar bad stuff when they, more than any other party, are the ones embracing those most likely to see such stuff as a good thing.FrancisUrquhart said:IMO, Labour certainly have a serious problem with this, in the way the Tories in the 80's used to turn a blind eye to fellow travelers who were racist or homophobic.
Why should I as a woman vote for a party which embraces those who think it OK for my husband to beat me or for my child to be killed because of their sexuality? At the first whiff of more votes from homophobes and wife-beaters they have abandoned their feminist principles and women and gays. So they can F*** Off into Space, as far as I'm concerned.
When they've understood why the choices they've made are bad ones and turned away from those choices and apologised, then perhaps they might be let into polite society and I might consider engaging with them again. Meanwhile I'll hang on to those Labour people I know personally who share my concerns and are equally concerned / appalled etc.
Bullies will always want to dominate others. That, regrettably, is probably a part of human nature. But there is no earthly reason why we should indulge such people. And those who do deserve censure not praise.
The self-esteem and confidence of the victim gets knocked so low they don't think they deserve anything better and don't have the internal strength of will to break free of it anymore either.0 -
Inevitable. Osborne/Cameron strategy of picking a fight with their party backfires.Cyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
0 -
George is doing the budget on Wednesday so the Tories will be back to a double figure lead.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Inevitable. Osborne/Cameron strategy of picking a fight with their party backfires.Cyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
0 -
A division of Cameron's own making, a rush to get the referendum done, feeble negotiation, and a laughable result that he personally has been talking up. All of that was avoidable. If he waited until 2017, played hard ball with the EU, and came back with a better deal, he might have a lot more support within his own party and the wider public.Cyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
And he's supposedly good at politics.0 -
I doubt that.Alanbrooke said:
George is doing the budget on Wednesday so the Tories will be back to a double figure lead.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Inevitable. Osborne/Cameron strategy of picking a fight with their party backfires.Cyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
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Corrected for you...Alanbrooke said:
George is doing the budget on Wednesday so the Tories will be back to a double figureTCPoliticalBetting said:
Inevitable. Osborne/Cameron strategy of picking a fight with their party backfires.Cyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
leaddeficit0 -
That's a shocking ICM Phone Poll.0
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@Danny565 noted this in the early hours as the Michigan results were coming in:Richard_Nabavi said:"A simple model based on two predictors — the racial composition of the Democratic primary electorate and a dummy variable for region — explain over 90% of the variance in Hillary Clinton’s vote share in this year’s Democratic primaries through March 8. "
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/a-simple-model-for-predicting-hillary-clintons-vote-in-the-march-15-democratic-primaries/Danny565 said:
Get on Bernie for OhioPulpstar said:So much for Nate's 99% HRC MI !!
V similar to Michigan but a little more white.0 -
Shocking in terms of its relevance to the real world. Except it keeps Corbyn in position of course.Philip_Thompson said:That's a shocking ICM Phone Poll.
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An American libertarian tries to understand Trump's appeal.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/03/14/my_dad_and_donald_trump_129964.html0 -
I rather think he's better at politics than his critics, what with becoming PM and all that, and managing to keep the divisions in the Conservative Party under control for nearly a decade so far.glw said:A division of Cameron's own making, a rush to get the referendum done, feeble negotiation, and a laughable result that he personally has been talking up. All of that was avoidable. If he waited until 2017, played hard ball with the EU, and came back with a better deal, he might have a lot more support within his own party and the wider public.
And he's supposedly good at politics.
In this particular case, what you say is barmy. How could it possibly have been better to let the thing drag on for two years, allowing the renegotiation to clash with the French and German elections, and leaving less time for the party to regroup after the referendum?0 -
I've been told to expect the Ipsos Mori and ComRes phone polls this week.
Will give us an idea if this ICM poll is a rogue or a harbinger0 -
Do you truly think a better deal was available. I think it's abundantly clear that the EU either can't or won't give us a better deal. The French would rather see us leave than get what we demand (which is why notions that we'll find a free trade deal without conditions and without free movement I'm skeptical about, but we should I think Vote Leave anyway).glw said:
A division of Cameron's own making, a rush to get the referendum done, feeble negotiation, and a laughable result that he personally has been talking up. All of that was avoidable. If he waited until 2017, played hard ball with the EU, and came back with a better deal, he might have a lot more support within his own party and the wider public.Cyclefree said:
Maybe but it ought to be a warning to the Tories (a) not to be complacent or hubristic; and (b) that voters punish divided parties.Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Suspect we'll see Corbynistas tweeting this poll out en masse. But it is just 1 poll, and doesn't tally with others https://t.co/WlBaUm6QFX
And he's supposedly good at politics.
Besides the division would have happened no matter what was negotiated as nothing short of an unconditional Leave recommendation would have satisfied many.0 -
I can sense a thread change coming up.........TheScreamingEagles said:I've been told to expect the Ipsos Mori and ComRes phone polls this week.
Will give us an idea if this ICM poll is a rogue or a harbinger0 -
Off Topic
***** BETTING POST *****
Having recently shared with you my big-priced winner on Steve MccClaren winning the latest round of the sack race, I thought I'd follow this up with a number of reports in the media over the weekend that the next manager of Manchester United would not in fact be Jose Mourinho, the short odds-on favourite but instead the present PSG boss Lauren Blanc, available at fancy odds of 20/1 from SkyBET, Paddy Power and betway.
Personally, I've never been convinced that The Special One would turn out to be the chosen one and certainly Mr. White as a former Man Utd player would be a popular choice.
That said, this is a long shot, so I suggest limiting yourself to a few quid maximum and DYOR.0 -
Even Martin Boon isn't convinced by his own poll. That's his Hmm in the tweet I quoted.Philip_Thompson said:
That's a shocking ICM Phone Poll.
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