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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Maybe the LAB membership isn’t quite the force for Corbyn a

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Maybe the LAB membership isn’t quite the force for Corbyn as is thought

"Often they'll say, 'oh, I just joined to vote for Jeremy' … they don't seem to want to win council seats or the mayoral election."

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    £3 is not much of a commitment I guess. Easy come easy go. Joining Labour and voting Corbyn was for some barely more than virtue signalling it seems.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited March 2016
    Corbynistas, all fart and no follow through.

    This doesn't bode well for Labour's awesome ground game in 2020 does it?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,494
    Lack of enthusiasm for attending branch meetings, canvassing and so on is neither a new phenomenon nor restricted to Corbyn supporters - nor, I believe, just a Labour phenomenon. There are loads of people who merely join a party to show support and leave it at that, except when it comes to selecting candidates (and leaders).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347

    Lack of enthusiasm for attending branch meetings, canvassing and so on is neither a new phenomenon nor restricted to Corbyn supporters - nor, I believe, just a Labour phenomenon. There are loads of people who merely join a party to show support and leave it at that, except when it comes to selecting candidates (and leaders).

    But we were told Corbynism was sweeping the nation...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    Russian biathlete Eduard Latypov has been suspended after testing positive meldonium...

    Biathlon with a dodgy ticker. Very impressive.
  • From what I read of the Corbyn master strategy for winning in 2020 is to energise non voters, well who is going to energise them? GOTV campaigns need some effort.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,920
    "The drudgery of monthly branch meetings has set in and most of these new (Labour) members have stopped showing up"

    Also, far fewer irritating and self-righeous posts on my Commie friends' facebooks...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    I am not a supporter of JC, but without doubt he has energised constituency activity in my area.
  • Jonathan said:

    I am not a supporter of JC, but without doubt he has energised constituency activity in my area.

    Where do you live?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769

    From what I read of the Corbyn master strategy for winning in 2020 is to energise non voters, well who is going to energise them? GOTV campaigns need some effort.

    Trump and to some degree Sanders (Michigan) seem to be doing it in the US.

    Corbyn is too dull to motivate the non voters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has blamed European nations for "unilaterally" shutting the Balkan route for migrants.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35772206

    The whole world is welcome...come on in...
  • Pulpstar said:

    From what I read of the Corbyn master strategy for winning in 2020 is to energise non voters, well who is going to energise them? GOTV campaigns need some effort.

    Trump and to some degree Sanders (Michigan) seem to be doing it in the US.

    Corbyn is too dull to motivate the non voters.
    For all their faults, you can't criticise Trump and Sanders patriotism
  • Corbynistas, all fart and no follow through.

    This doesn't bode well for Labour's awesome ground game in 2020 does it?

    Yes but they can build on that "wonderful" ground game that we were told they had in 2015....
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ditto, and a collapse on Twitter.
    Fishing said:

    "The drudgery of monthly branch meetings has set in and most of these new (Labour) members have stopped showing up"

    Also, far fewer irritating and self-righeous posts on my Commie friends' facebooks...

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    Remain: George Osborne, Alan Johnson, Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas

    Leave: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/10/bbcs-tv-debate-revenge-on-no-10/

    Alien vs Predator...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347

    Ditto, and a collapse on Twitter.

    Fishing said:

    "The drudgery of monthly branch meetings has set in and most of these new (Labour) members have stopped showing up"

    Also, far fewer irritating and self-righeous posts on my Commie friends' facebooks...

    My twitter feed has just become jammed with retweets of junior doctors doing their selfie videos.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    Remain: George Osborne, Alan Johnson, Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas

    Leave: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/10/bbcs-tv-debate-revenge-on-no-10/

    Alien vs Predator...

    That sounds ghastly.

    Why are there no female proponents for Leave on that panel?

    Andrea Leadsom, Priti Patel, Andrea Jenkyns, Sarah Wollaston, Kate Hooey or Gisela Stuart would be better than any of that lot.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302
    edited March 2016

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has blamed European nations for "unilaterally" shutting the Balkan route for migrants.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35772206

    The whole world is welcome...come on in...

    Her MPs and neighbouring countries will be delighted with her insight.

    I wonder what German for STFU is ?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    FPT

    @carlottavance

    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    On topic, why is this a surprise to anyone?

    Attending monthly branch meetings is very much a minority taste for only the few most dedicated politicos.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet: Lammy in a little trouble:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35772202
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467

    Pulpstar said:

    [snip]

    20-1 is a fair value bet according to Betfair's odds. 11% implied value over f.v.

    I wonder if the Trump and Sanders eventualities are completely independent, though? It could be that indications of Trump getting RepNom are emboldening left-wing Democrats to vote Sanders, on the basis that they think Trump is entirely unelectable.

    If there is any such effect, that would make the bet more attractive.
    Or, wwc turning out for Trump means they aren't turning out for Sanders; or that they are more politically engaged and more are voting one or the other. Several possibilities, limited data.
    What seemed to be the issue in Michigan was free trade. Blacks moved to Sanders on this issue and caused the upset. This quite obviously has implications for the rest of the Rustbelt, for both primaries as well as for the Presidential. Remember no one has ever lost money by being deeply sceptical about HRC's electability or campaigning skills.

    https://twitter.com/FT/status/707845922286379008

    I read in the Democratic debate HRC became even more extreme on the immigration issue in order to shore up her minority support. Might help her in the short term...
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    The life support machine that makes it look like the European economy is actually alive?
    Somebody just cranked it up a notch.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    FPT

    @carlottavance

    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Remain: George Osborne, Alan Johnson, Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas

    Leave: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/10/bbcs-tv-debate-revenge-on-no-10/

    Alien vs Predator...

    Why no Labour LEAVEr?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    Remain: George Osborne, Alan Johnson, Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas

    Leave: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/10/bbcs-tv-debate-revenge-on-no-10/

    Alien vs Predator...

    That sounds ghastly.

    Why are there no female proponents for Leave on that panel?

    Andrea Leadsom, Priti Patel, Andrea Jenkyns, Sarah Wollaston, Kate Hooey or Gisela Stuart would be better than any of that lot.
    I see what you mean, but I think it could be electric. Boris, George, Nigel, are all great speakers on their day, but all capable of utter disaster too. Total high stakes gamble.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    Look upon it as a patient having a bad bacterial infection. The doctor is gradually going through increasingly strong antibiotics.

    They are trying to get _a lot_ of money into the economy to get people to spend.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    FPT

    @carlottavance

    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    Irrelevant. Cameron said he was going to cut immigration, he either thought it possible or he was lying.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Afternoon all - ‘People are just not turning up’

    Not surprised in the least, cheap, instant on-line membership by a mass of keyboard warriors who can’t be bothered to get off their arses and pitch in where needed. – It’s the same for those who sign up to on-line petitions, instant smugness, for little or no effort. Tis the new generation for you.
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    edited March 2016
    "Privacy" of conversations that the monarch holds with politicians is such a load of crap.

    If she's being neutral in public but backing one side in private, is it wrong in some way to reveal her dishonesty?

    Has the person who reveals it been a naughty boy? Can't any public person in this country whip up the guts to criticise their beloved hereditary monarch? Anyone got a paper bag?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    I swear the same people sign all the same 38 degrees political petitions.

    Afternoon all - ‘People are just not turning up’

    Not surprised in the least, cheap, instant on-line membership by a mass of keyboard warriors who can’t be bothered to get off their arses and pitch in where needed. – It’s the same for those who sign up to on-line petitions, instant smugness, for little or no effort. Tis the new generation for you.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On topic: As regards the possibility of a Corbyn defenestration, or who would replace him if he did go, what matters is not whether these new members turn up to branch meetings, but whether they remain members and eventually vote in any leadership election.
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,494

    Lack of enthusiasm for attending branch meetings, canvassing and so on is neither a new phenomenon nor restricted to Corbyn supporters - nor, I believe, just a Labour phenomenon. There are loads of people who merely join a party to show support and leave it at that, except when it comes to selecting candidates (and leaders).

    But we were told Corbynism was sweeping the nation...
    I don't think you'd accuse me of lack of Labour commitment. But I can't say I attend more branch meetings than I have to. GOTV is another matter when elections come round.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    On topic, why is this a surprise to anyone?

    Attending monthly branch meetings is very much a minority taste for only the few most dedicated politicos.

    It rather has the feel of yet another strawman angle for decrying Corbyn as a failure - "He claimed that all these members would get involved in CLP business and they haven't". I don't think there was ever an expectation that large numbers of new members would immediately get into the swing of local day to day politics, nice as it would be to see it. In fact the point of trying to broaden the leadership election was precisely to try and raise some interest in politics amongst those who weren't necessarily up for the same level of commitment as "traditional" members.

    My experience is that in CLPs that were broadly pro-Corbyn (like mine) there has been some new blood in local meetings and campaigning. In those that were broadly anti, new members have sometimes not been welcome, as the article mentions.

    The best point in the article is about the lack of leadership from the top, which is being seen as stemming from a lack of clear leadership discipline and messaging from Corbyn/McD in particular along with the constant division and criticism across the PLP. It's very difficult to engage new members to campaign when it's not clear what the campaigning vision should actually be. It's also hard to see that changing without a leadership that is prepared to give more enthusiastic support to the leader.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    It's worth watching this interview with Trump from 25 years ago. He's been politically very consistent. Similar views on globalisation to James Goldsmith - maybe billionaires tend to think in longer time scales than others.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbzTyhIv2B8
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Labour are punch drunk. They just don't seem to have the fire in their bellies any more.

    How many times can you run on the same arguments about austerity, welfare cuts, the NHS, 50p tax rates and get slapped in the face by the electorate?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I swear the same people sign all the same 38 degrees political petitions.

    Afternoon all - ‘People are just not turning up’

    Not surprised in the least, cheap, instant on-line membership by a mass of keyboard warriors who can’t be bothered to get off their arses and pitch in where needed. – It’s the same for those who sign up to on-line petitions, instant smugness, for little or no effort. Tis the new generation for you.

    Yep, they also tell people they'll vote Remain but won't bother.

    Complacency will win it for Leave, those who respect the right to vote will get out and do so
  • TOPPING said:

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    Look upon it as a patient having a bad bacterial infection. The doctor is gradually going through increasingly strong antibiotics.

    They are trying to get _a lot_ of money into the economy to get people to spend.
    This credit crunch has been a bloody nightmare for us savers
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,561
    edited March 2016
    Interesting piece of gossip I heard recently. Our Labour team on the council have said that they couldn't see themselves doing a deal on a council budget in opposition. This is because their new members are so anti-austerity they fear deselection. They can just about get away with it as the administration as they can claim they're doing their best to mitigate all the cuts.

    It's a dog that hasn't barked at all this year, but if this is anything more than an anecdote then we might find the new Labour members making life very difficult at local government level.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    TOPPING said:

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    Look upon it as a patient having a bad bacterial infection. The doctor is gradually going through increasingly strong antibiotics.

    They are trying to get _a lot_ of money into the economy to get people to spend.
    And its this patient with a bad bacterial infection that Mr Topping wants you to stay yoked to.
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    edited March 2016
    https://twitter.com/MarkHalperin/status/707873976828174336

    Not just me who sees HRC is in trouble. Trump could rap it up in a week, the Democrat race looks like it could go on awhile.

    Yes Trump is indeed the heir to Sir James Goldsmith, just without the environmentalism.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    The deposit rate being negative means that if an organisation wants to store money by sending it to the ECB then instead of the ECB paying the organisation for the ability to use that money, the ECB charges the organisation for providing a safe haven.

    Basically the ECB wants lots of money in the economy to stimulate demand as it has worked so well for the last 7 years.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676

    TOPPING said:

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    Look upon it as a patient having a bad bacterial infection. The doctor is gradually going through increasingly strong antibiotics.

    They are trying to get _a lot_ of money into the economy to get people to spend.
    This credit crunch has been a bloody nightmare for us savers
    It's of course why the oldies like hearing anything about austerity.

    ( @Alanbrooke WHETHER OR NOT IT IS PRACTISED!!!! ;) )
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    chestnut said:

    Labour are punch drunk. They just don't seem to have the fire in their bellies any more.

    How many times can you run on the same arguments about austerity, welfare cuts, the NHS, 50p tax rates and get slapped in the face by the electorate?

    You forgot ZEROOOOOO HOURSSSS CONTRACTTTSSSSS....they got another run out yesterday.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    FPT

    @carlottavance

    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    Irrelevant. Cameron said he was going to cut immigration, he either thought it possible or he was lying.
    Cameron lying kind of stopped being a story sometime ago didn't it? It's priced in to analysing any Cameron statement. Not "does he seriously believe what he's saying?" so much as "what effect will his saying this have?"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Now there's a shock. Or not.

    Furthermore if these keyboard warriors not only don't put in any legwork but actively put off those that did then that is compounding the problem.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    weejonnie said:

    Can someone tell me what this means?

    Breaking: European Central Bank cuts deposit rate to -0.4% and main refinancing rate to 0%. Expands QE to Eu80bn a month #negativeland

    The deposit rate being negative means that if an organisation wants to store money by sending it to the ECB then instead of the ECB paying the organisation for the ability to use that money, the ECB charges the organisation for providing a safe haven.

    Basically the ECB wants lots of money in the economy to stimulate demand as it has worked so well for the last 7 years.
    Its a huge problem for banks because they cannot pass these rates on to customers. No idiot is going to leave his money in a bank if he ends up with less than he started with.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    There's a difference between Schengen visas and EU citizens exercising the Four Freedoms.

    No EU country is in breech of the Four Freedoms
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Oh dear.

    ttps://youtu.be/Nb0ns5quKIw

    What a vile man.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    Remain: George Osborne, Alan Johnson, Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas

    Leave: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/10/bbcs-tv-debate-revenge-on-no-10/

    Alien vs Predator...

    That sounds ghastly.

    Why are there no female proponents for Leave on that panel?

    Andrea Leadsom, Priti Patel, Andrea Jenkyns, Sarah Wollaston, Kate Hooey or Gisela Stuart would be better than any of that lot.
    I see what you mean, but I think it could be electric. Boris, George, Nigel, are all great speakers on their day, but all capable of utter disaster too. Total high stakes gamble.
    The BBC has chosen well. The worst Leavers to choose IMHO.

    On the other hand, Tim Farron and Caroline Lucas won't set the world on fire either.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd

    Economics like this will have far more of an impact on the EU ref than the migration crisis (which the EU is desperately trying to bottle up in any event) by June IMHO.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has blamed European nations for "unilaterally" shutting the Balkan route for migrants.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35772206

    The whole world is welcome...come on in...

    I've got a suggested route to allow people into Germany: planes.

    Safe, no people smugglers, no sea routes, not illegal. All the Germans need to do is put on some planes and issue some visas. Problem over.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's such a tired playlist. It wasn't attracting listeners 5yrs ago either.

    chestnut said:

    Labour are punch drunk. They just don't seem to have the fire in their bellies any more.

    How many times can you run on the same arguments about austerity, welfare cuts, the NHS, 50p tax rates and get slapped in the face by the electorate?

    You forgot ZEROOOOOO HOURSSSS CONTRACTTTSSSSS....they got another run out yesterday.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited March 2016

    What I would really like to hear, from a betting perspective, is the extent to which and in which direction (if any) PBers and their close circle of friends and/or family have switched sides between REMAIN and LEAVE or not as the case may be.
    A thread dedicated specifically to just such a purpose with perhaps 200-300 PBers contributing, or alternatively in a poll format if that could be arranged, would provide an interesting insight into how opinion may be shifting.

    An interesting question. 3 years ago four 70yrs+ male retired professionals (Conservatives) all 4 were for REMAIN. Now it is 1 LEAVE, 1 leaning to LEAVE, 1 unsure and 1 REMAIN.

    As their junior (in age) I was isolated being a LEAVE/BOO and there was no way LEAVE had a chance based on those views 3 years ago. Today I can see a chance, one even left the Conservatives for UKIP.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690

    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd

    it moved 1%
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd

    Economics like this will have far more of an impact on the EU ref than the migration crisis (which the EU is desperately trying to bottle up in any event) by June IMHO.
    Just what does the ECB do if the economy does not respond to this? starting executing people who want to save money? Compulsory mattress searches?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has blamed European nations for "unilaterally" shutting the Balkan route for migrants.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35772206

    The whole world is welcome...come on in...

    I've got a suggested route to allow people into Germany: planes.

    Safe, no people smugglers, no sea routes, not illegal. All the Germans need to do is put on some planes and issue some visas. Problem over.
    Except Merkel doesn't really want all the refugees/migrants to head to Germany. She's hoping they'll spread about, and not be solely her problem.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,253
    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    taffys said:

    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd

    Economics like this will have far more of an impact on the EU ref than the migration crisis (which the EU is desperately trying to bottle up in any event) by June IMHO.
    Just what does the ECB do if the economy does not respond to this? starting executing people who want to save money? Compulsory mattress searches?
    Introduce controls on the amount of cash one can hold?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    rcs1000 said:

    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd

    it moved 1%
    Those people predicting sterling after Brexit, did they mean 20% fall or 20% rise?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Spokesman for Momentum was on DP.

    The strategy is that Corbyn will get more popular over time...

    Meanwhile

    Over the past few weeks, talk of a potential coup against Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader has grown, with most expecting some sort of move from some section of the party in the summer. The chance of that move not dying the same embarrassing death as most Labour coups is still pretty slim, no matter how tough the plotters talk about the number of meetings they’ve had. But whatever happens with the official party leadership, there is already a serious coup underway in the party.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/how-the-coup-against-jeremy-corbyn-has-already-happened/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Mine are trending Leave. I was Reluctant Remain only a few months ago too.

    We really need a thread by a keen Remainer who'll set out the aspirations of their position.

    We've had a gut full of anti Leave ones which isn't the same thing at all.

    What I would really like to hear, from a betting perspective, is the extent to which and in which direction (if any) PBers and their close circle of friends and/or family have switched sides between REMAIN and LEAVE or not as the case may be.
    A thread dedicated specifically to just such a purpose with perhaps 200-300 PBers contributing, or alternatively in a poll format if that could be arranged, would provide an interesting insight into how opinion may be shifting.

    An interesting question. 3 years ago four 70yrs+ male retired professionals (Conservatives) all 4 were for REMAIN. Now it is 1 LEAVE, 1 leaning to LEAVE, 1 unsure and 1 REMAIN.

    As their junior (in age) I thought being a LEAVE/BOO then, there was no way LEAVE had a chance based on their view 3 years ago. Today I can see a chance, 1 even left the Conservatives for UKIP.
  • Remain: George Osborne, Alan Johnson, Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas

    Leave: Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/10/bbcs-tv-debate-revenge-on-no-10/

    Alien vs Predator...

    That sounds ghastly.

    Why are there no female proponents for Leave on that panel?

    Andrea Leadsom, Priti Patel, Andrea Jenkyns, Sarah Wollaston, Kate Hooey or Gisela Stuart would be better than any of that lot.
    I see what you mean, but I think it could be electric. Boris, George, Nigel, are all great speakers on their day, but all capable of utter disaster too. Total high stakes gamble.
    The BBC has chosen well. The worst Leavers to choose IMHO.

    On the other hand, Tim Farron and Caroline Lucas won't set the world on fire either.
    Tim can roll a joint and Caroline can smoke it whilst George thinks about legalising it for the tax and Alan just smiles (as he does) getting high on the fumes.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Local Labour parties are seriously missing a trick if they aren't doing their utmost to harness this potential new resource. In the main, most of them will not be fanged Maoists but idealists enthused by a crusading vision.

    They should be reading this and using it as a case study:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/16/how-rebuild-labour-political-party-from-ground-up
  • Mine are trending Leave. I was Reluctant Remain only a few months ago too.

    We really need a thread by a keen Remainer who'll set out the aspirations of their position.

    We've had a gut full of anti Leave ones which isn't the same thing at all.

    What I would really like to hear, from a betting perspective, is the extent to which and in which direction (if any) PBers and their close circle of friends and/or family have switched sides between REMAIN and LEAVE or not as the case may be.
    A thread dedicated specifically to just such a purpose with perhaps 200-300 PBers contributing, or alternatively in a poll format if that could be arranged, would provide an interesting insight into how opinion may be shifting.

    An interesting question. 3 years ago four 70yrs+ male retired professionals (Conservatives) all 4 were for REMAIN. Now it is 1 LEAVE, 1 leaning to LEAVE, 1 unsure and 1 REMAIN.

    As their junior (in age) I thought being a LEAVE/BOO then, there was no way LEAVE had a chance based on their view 3 years ago. Today I can see a chance, 1 even left the Conservatives for UKIP.
    Is it possible for REMAIN to talk about sunny uplands?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Speaking of old playlists and the NHS

    Old Holborn
    "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!

    https://t.co/D7yyHI4yf5 https://t.co/oVVfAywjnn
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    Spokesman for Momentum was on DP.

    The strategy is that Corbyn will get more popular over time...

    Meanwhile


    Over the past few weeks, talk of a potential coup against Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader has grown, with most expecting some sort of move from some section of the party in the summer. The chance of that move not dying the same embarrassing death as most Labour coups is still pretty slim, no matter how tough the plotters talk about the number of meetings they’ve had. But whatever happens with the official party leadership, there is already a serious coup underway in the party.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/how-the-coup-against-jeremy-corbyn-has-already-happened/

    Corbyn goes, Osborne fills his trousers, Cameron decides to cling on.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    watford30 said:

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has blamed European nations for "unilaterally" shutting the Balkan route for migrants.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35772206

    The whole world is welcome...come on in...

    I've got a suggested route to allow people into Germany: planes.

    Safe, no people smugglers, no sea routes, not illegal. All the Germans need to do is put on some planes and issue some visas. Problem over.
    Except Merkel doesn't really want all the refugees/migrants to head to Germany. She's hoping they'll spread about, and not be solely her problem.
    Merkel wants to be able to decide upon the immigration policy on behalf of all EU member states herself.

    She is the defacto EU President deciding on the blocs economic as well as home affairs priorities.

    Somehow I can't see that ending too well.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    watford30 said:

    taffys said:

    Golly, that's quite a graph

    Times Business
    Euro tumbles against dollar after ECB cuts benchmark rates and increases QE by €20bn https://t.co/IXcAg7Pesd

    Economics like this will have far more of an impact on the EU ref than the migration crisis (which the EU is desperately trying to bottle up in any event) by June IMHO.
    Just what does the ECB do if the economy does not respond to this? starting executing people who want to save money? Compulsory mattress searches?
    Introduce controls on the amount of cash one can hold?
    Well if you want a gargantuan run on the banks as people draw down anything above their limit and literally stick it in the mattress, I suppose its an idea.

    I doubt the banks have remotely enough notes to do that.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    Any TV debate should have Michael Gove as most senior Leave cabinet minister and Kate Hoey as leader of LabourLeave. Also a case for Priti Patel for ethnic/gender diversity.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    For years now I've heard people saying they want a grown up conversation about immigration, that has morphed into freedom of movement. Freedom of movement in it's purest form has probably never existed, never will. The Remain stance is risible, if you want to control migration you're a racist, xenophobic, little Englander, this at a time when the EU is bribing Turkey to keep out the savages.

    FWIW I'm totally FOR freedom of movement, with the caveat of self sufficiency. I have zero interest in colour, culture or nationality.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    edited March 2016
    I'm in an uber now. Excellent, fraction of the price of a black cab or minicab.

    Edit: of course if you are very rich you don't care about the price...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    Jeremy Hunt ‏@Jeremy_Hunt 22h22 hours ago
    We’re changing the law to protect drs who speak up when things go wrong, aiming to move from a blame culture to a learning culture.

    @PeteDeveson
    .@Jeremy_Hunt Dude there's like fifty four thousand telling you something's going wrong RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW AS I TYPE.
  • What I would really like to hear, from a betting perspective, is the extent to which and in which direction (if any) PBers and their close circle of friends and/or family have switched sides between REMAIN and LEAVE or not as the case may be.
    A thread dedicated specifically to just such a purpose with perhaps 200-300 PBers contributing, or alternatively in a poll format if that could be arranged, would provide an interesting insight into how opinion may be shifting.

    An interesting question. 3 years ago four 70yrs+ male retired professionals (Conservatives) all 4 were for REMAIN. Now it is 1 LEAVE, 1 leaning to LEAVE, 1 unsure and 1 REMAIN.
    ...
    FWIW The two biggest drivers of their views are:-
    1. The lack of reform from the renegotiation.
    2. The ongoing migration crisis across the EU and the failure to tackle it. "Its in the news every day".
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    LondonBob said:

    https://twitter.com/MarkHalperin/status/707873976828174336

    Not just me who sees HRC is in trouble. Trump could rap it up in a week, the Democrat race looks like it could go on awhile.

    Yes Trump is indeed the heir to Sir James Goldsmith, just without the environmentalism.

    Strange how all Trump supporters aren't willing to bet on it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179

    She is the defacto EU President deciding on the blocs economic as well as home affairs priorities.

    Somehow I can't see that ending too well.

    And if you think that's bad, just imagine if Germany were led by someone less competent.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    John_N said:

    "Privacy" of conversations that the monarch holds with politicians is such a load of crap.

    If she's being neutral in public but backing one side in private, is it wrong in some way to reveal her dishonesty?

    Has the person who reveals it been a naughty boy? Can't any public person in this country whip up the guts to criticise their beloved hereditary monarch? Anyone got a paper bag?

    FWIW I think this is a case of HM asking critical questions of her privvy council on the EU, and this was back in the depths of the eurozone crisis in 2011, rather than declaring one way or another.

    She would be very wary of doing the latter. Philip and Charles, however, would not.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    edited March 2016
    The Smithson ECB Piece:

    The ECB has announced it is increasing the pace of QE by €20bn per month, and is further cutting the (already negative) rate it pays banks that deposit money with it.

    On QE, it is worth remembering that the ECB is still a long way behind the BoE, the BoJ and the Fed. As a percentage of GDP, the amount of QE in Japan is about 40%, in the UK 30%, the US 25%, and even after this, it will only be 15-20% in the Eurozone. So, the idea that this is outsized monetary stimulus is probably incorrect.

    Regarding negative rates for deposits held at the central bank. Currently, the Swiss Central Bank, the Danish Central Bank, the BoJ and the ECB all have negative deposit rates. The aim of these is to encourage banks to lend money. (There is a contradiction here. Central banks all demand that commerical banks increase their Tier One capital ratios, which discourages lending. And then demands they lend by slashing the deposit rate.)

    Will QE work?
    Probably not. Unlike in the US where the bond market is the main financing mechanism for large companies, in Europe most borrowing is via banks, so this does little to directly lower funding costs. It does, however, lower the cost of borrowing for governments, and mean that - assuming they sensibly refinance - that interest bills as a percentage of GDP are likely to be well below normal levels for the forseeable future,

    Will negative interest rates work?
    They did in Sweden, where economic growth has gone through the roof since the Riksbank started charge commercial banks to leave money with it. They have not in Japan.

    Frankly, a bigger boost to Eurozone GDP - although not inflation rates - is likely to be the low price of oil.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    LondonBob said:

    https://twitter.com/MarkHalperin/status/707873976828174336

    Not just me who sees HRC is in trouble. Trump could rap it up in a week, the Democrat race looks like it could go on awhile.

    Yes Trump is indeed the heir to Sir James Goldsmith, just without the environmentalism.

    Sir James Goldsmith did not exactly sweep the board with his Referendum Party in 1997
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    Of course it has something to do with this. Freedom of movement only applied to EU citizens not all and sundry. If you're illegally in one Schengen nation you can get into all of them from there without ever passing another border security force. This delegates every nations border to the weakest link.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    TOPPING said:

    I'm in an uber now. Excellent, fraction of the price of a black cab or minicab.

    Edit: of course if you are very rich you don't care about the price...
    I find cabbies rude, self-centred, self-obsessed, overpriced and inflexible.

    Why on earth would I want to hire a black cab over an uber?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    Of course it has something to do with this. Freedom of movement only applied to EU citizens not all and sundry. If you're illegally in one Schengen nation you can get into all of them from there without ever passing another border security force. This delegates every nations border to the weakest link.
    Crossing land borders in Europe - even before Schengen - has always been a pot of piss.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited March 2016
    TOPPING said:

    I'm in an uber now. Excellent, fraction of the price of a black cab or minicab.

    Edit: of course if you are very rich you don't care about the price...
    I don't understand this hate for Uber, I love it, and especially when they send their Uber Exec fleet.

    Plus, I always seem to attract the racist black cabbies
  • TomTom Posts: 273
    The problem is less that they don't get involved (which as pointed out below is the norm for party members) but whether the non-active have fundamentally different views from the active, and therefore can impose leadership and policy positions on the party through on-line voting, which a good proportion of those who knock on doors, raise funds and crucially are elected Councillors don't agree with. That is a recipe for those who actually hold the party together leaving.

    My knowledge of two London CLPs is that it is (literally) the returners from the 1980s including some of the more colourful personalities who are turning up spoiling for a fight and meetings are poisonous. It is also clear there are plenty who are Corbyn supporters but not Labour supporters - the Jeremy Hardys and Mark Steels.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    John_N said:

    "Privacy" of conversations that the monarch holds with politicians is such a load of crap.

    If she's being neutral in public but backing one side in private, is it wrong in some way to reveal her dishonesty?

    Has the person who reveals it been a naughty boy? Can't any public person in this country whip up the guts to criticise their beloved hereditary monarch? Anyone got a paper bag?

    FWIW I think this is a case of HM asking critical questions of her privvy council on the EU, and this was back in the depths of the eurozone crisis in 2011, rather than declaring one way or another.
    Exactly. The Sun Editor was wriggling furiously on R4 Today this morning refusing to answer whether the queen's comments were made after the referendum was called - describing the question as 'semantics' - so I think we know the answer to that one then.....

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    rcs1000 said:

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    Of course it has something to do with this. Freedom of movement only applied to EU citizens not all and sundry. If you're illegally in one Schengen nation you can get into all of them from there without ever passing another border security force. This delegates every nations border to the weakest link.
    Crossing land borders in Europe - even before Schengen - has always been a pot of piss.
    Not if you're the family Von Trapp.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Will QE work?'

    It's not just about the lending channel Robert (which is complicated by negative rates as well as capital & liquidity rules), but asset prices and the exchange rate as well. But I'd agree this is not a very dramatic stimulus.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    For years now I've heard people saying they want a grown up conversation about immigration, that has morphed into freedom of movement. Freedom of movement in it's purest form has probably never existed, never will. The Remain stance is risible, if you want to control migration you're a racist, xenophobic, little Englander, this at a time when the EU is bribing Turkey to keep out the savages.

    FWIW I'm totally FOR freedom of movement, with the caveat of self sufficiency. I have zero interest in colour, culture or nationality.
    The point of Schengen area countries is that they operate a common visa policy.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016

    John_N said:

    "Privacy" of conversations that the monarch holds with politicians is such a load of crap.

    If she's being neutral in public but backing one side in private, is it wrong in some way to reveal her dishonesty?

    Has the person who reveals it been a naughty boy? Can't any public person in this country whip up the guts to criticise their beloved hereditary monarch? Anyone got a paper bag?

    FWIW I think this is a case of HM asking critical questions of her privvy council on the EU, and this was back in the depths of the eurozone crisis in 2011, rather than declaring one way or another.
    Exactly. The Sun Editor was wriggling furiously on R4 Today this morning refusing to answer whether the queen's comments were made after the referendum was called - describing the question as 'semantics' - so I think we know the answer to that one then.....

    He made a great comment about Clegg being 'up on his hind legs'.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Grayling in full flow at Vote Leave on BBC News 24.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347

    TOPPING said:

    I'm in an uber now. Excellent, fraction of the price of a black cab or minicab.

    Edit: of course if you are very rich you don't care about the price...
    I don't understand this hate for Uber, I love it, and especially when they send their Uber Exec fleet.

    Plus, I always seem to attract the racist black cabbies
    That's not possible. Black people can't be racist....according to Diane Abbott.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    For years now I've heard people saying they want a grown up conversation about immigration, that has morphed into freedom of movement. Freedom of movement in it's purest form has probably never existed, never will. The Remain stance is risible, if you want to control migration you're a racist, xenophobic, little Englander, this at a time when the EU is bribing Turkey to keep out the savages.

    FWIW I'm totally FOR freedom of movement, with the caveat of self sufficiency. I have zero interest in colour, culture or nationality.
    The point of Schengen area countries is that they operate a common visa policy.
    That's irrelevant too.

    You're a good example of what I'm talking about, if immigration control is mentioned you call all sorts of names. But you want to Remain part of a Union that controls immigration.

    Not easy to square that circle.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Local Labour parties are seriously missing a trick if they aren't doing their utmost to harness this potential new resource. In the main, most of them will not be fanged Maoists but idealists enthused by a crusading vision.

    They should be reading this and using it as a case study:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/16/how-rebuild-labour-political-party-from-ground-up

    Not turning up for meetings is a different level of disinterest to not voting for a candidate. I am not sure what is new about OGH revelations.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,676
    rcs1000 said:

    The Smithson ECB Piece:

    The ECB has announced it is increasing the pace of QE by €20bn per month, and is further cutting the (already negative) rate it pays banks that deposit money with it.

    On QE, it is worth remembering that the ECB is still a long way behind the BoE, the BoJ and the Fed. As a percentage of GDP, the amount of QE in Japan is about 40%, in the UK 30%, the US 25%, and even after this, it will only be 15-20% in the Eurozone. So, the idea that this is outsized monetary stimulus is probably incorrect.

    Regarding negative rates for deposits held at the central bank. Currently, the Swiss Central Bank, the Danish Central Bank, the BoJ and the ECB all have negative deposit rates. The aim of these is to encourage banks to lend money. (There is a contradiction here. Central banks all demand that commerical banks increase their Tier One capital ratios, which discourages lending. And then demands they lend by slashing the deposit rate.)

    Will QE work?
    Probably not. Unlike in the US where the bond market is the main financing mechanism for large companies, in Europe most borrowing is via banks, so this does little to directly lower funding costs. It does, however, lower the cost of borrowing for governments, and mean that - assuming they sensibly refinance - that interest bills as a percentage of GDP are likely to be well below normal levels for the forseeable future,

    Will negative interest rates work?
    They did in Sweden, where economic growth has gone through the roof since the Riksbank started charge commercial banks to leave money with it. They have not in Japan.

    Frankly, a bigger boost to Eurozone GDP - although not inflation rates - is likely to be the low price of oil.

    Thanks Robert interesting.

    Of course the central dichotomy of wanting banks to both lend and build up capital bears repeating at every available opportunity.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690

    rcs1000 said:

    John_N said:

    FPT
    Controlling immigration is easy, you stop people entering the country.

    Now you may decide that's not a good idea but its perfectly possible and not at all difficult to implement, plenty of countries do it. The EU is just a smokescreen, the govt could change policy this afternoon if it wished.

    Which EU countries do it?
    All of them. Start by realising Schengen visas aren't given out to all comers like public relations toffees.
    Not sure how many times we have to repeat this. Schengen has absolutely nothing to do with the right to move between countries. It is only about not having to stop and show your documentation to someone at a border. So long as you are not on some list of undesirables (terrorists, criminals etc) whether you are in Schengen or not has sweet FA to do with freedom of movement.
    Of course it has something to do with this. Freedom of movement only applied to EU citizens not all and sundry. If you're illegally in one Schengen nation you can get into all of them from there without ever passing another border security force. This delegates every nations border to the weakest link.
    Crossing land borders in Europe - even before Schengen - has always been a pot of piss.
    Not if you're the family Von Trapp.
    Ah, but those illegal immigrants snuck into Switzerland in the end.
This discussion has been closed.