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  • Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I backed Rubio at 4.7 on the 10th because I thuoght a vaguely not rubbish showing in SC would cause his price to plunge and I would go back to laying him then (or Jeb Bush withdrawing would make eeryone assume Rubio was getting his votes and so caused his price to plunge) but it's already dropped to 3.8 to lay.

    Lock in the profit on the field or gamble on it going lower for a bigger reward?

    Rubio +1.1
    Trump +532.09
    Cruz +697.86
    Bush -999.31

    That's what I'm doing right now. (I've made a few trading errors this cycle but haven't we all)

    Level Rubio off imo. He is too short - but he goes shorter is Bush ends his campaign after South Carolina.
    Er Pulps...

    Rubio -10
    Trump +476
    Cruz +642
    Bush -938

    Lol.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    That is total bollocks, as you know, and I'm amazed you repost it. Boris is the one politician with proven cross-party appeal. He won leftwing London, FFS. There is a reason every reliable journalist says BoJo is the one politician REMAIN really fear, it is because it is true. He is a wild card. He could go down great, he might fail, but there's no doubt he has the charisma to change things.

    Don't go all Nabavi & Meeks, post serious stuff. Ta.

    Is part of a pattern with Boris. He's popular and it is good for Leave, I'm just relaying the message.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    rcs1000 said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    Can May allow them to both clambered the Leave boat - and watch it sail away without her being onboard too? Will make for a fun weekend....
    Alternatively, if they are on Leave, is her best chance to be the sceptical Remain-er, if that's going to win...

    I'm convinced that May, Gove and Johnson all care solely about their careers, and think very little about what is actually best for the country.
    Don't necessarily agree on Gove, think he is a good man. Anyone willing to take on the education establishment is fine with me.
    OK, that's fair.

    But I do genuinely think that each of them - and Pritti Patel and Fox and others - have their eyes fixed firmly on the door to number ten, and that everything they do re EuroRef is motivated by attempts to climb rise up the greasy pole, and not by moral imperative.
  • SeanT said:

    Go on, Boris

    Make it a proper contest.

    Boris is dangerous. As likely to blow up in Leave's face as to help it imo. I would welcome his support for Leave with extreme caution.
    But Boris defuses the Little Englander charge that Remain likes to bandy about.
    Boris could help leave's campaign but on the other hand he could be an unmitigated disaster. Can anyone really say they know him
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,703
    edited February 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I backed Rubio at 4.7 on the 10th because I thuoght a vaguely not rubbish showing in SC would cause his price to plunge and I would go back to laying him then (or Jeb Bush withdrawing would make eeryone assume Rubio was getting his votes and so caused his price to plunge) but it's already dropped to 3.8 to lay.

    Lock in the profit on the field or gamble on it going lower for a bigger reward?

    Rubio +1.1
    Trump +532.09
    Cruz +697.86
    Bush -999.31

    That's what I'm doing right now. (I've made a few trading errors this cycle but haven't we all)

    Level Rubio off imo. He is too short - but he goes shorter is Bush ends his campaign after South Carolina.
    Er Pulps...

    Rubio -10
    Trump +476
    Cruz +642
    Bush -938

    Lol.
    Arf

    Are we channeling the same clairvoyent :D ?

    POTUS:

    Clinton/Sanders/Field -499.71
    Rubio +652.03
    Biden +16.68
    Trump +1253.88
    Cruz +1009.16
    Bush -552.49
    Kasich +461.01
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    But at the last minute will fortutiously regain their balance, and walk reluctantly away from the exit.

    I'll believe it when I see it. Although I do think Osborne will plan for at least one "seeded" Leaver, who can come out for his leadership later on, thereby "uniting" the party.
    That's the thing, isn't it. They burnish their credentials for the leadership contest by appearing to prevaricate now.

    I admire Peter Bone and Anna Soubry more. At least you know where they genuinely stand.
  • Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
    When you look at the budget deficits across the OECD we are amongst the least fiscally dry. That is a large part of why we are creating jobs and "growth":

    https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/public-deficit-percentage-gdp

    We are pursuing an expansionary policy while Europe has tightened up significantly. Debt must eventually be paid back. The migration of EU workers is acting as a safety valve to both us and the EU. Against worsening social unrest there and against inflationary pressures here.

    One other point: those 1 in 9 workers on foreign passports work alongside British workers, there is a counterbalancing friendship and fellow feeling with other workers to any rivalry or resentment. The WWC is neither as monolithic nor uniformly hostile as some pb kippers would have it.
    The debt will take an eternity to pay back. The deficit is being cut, govt spending is being cut. The screams about it resonate every day. The deficit and vast spending was an inheritance from Gordon Brown.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    If Boris supports Leave I'll be hard pressed to take it seriously. More of an attempt to differentiate himself from Dave.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    SeanT said:

    Go on, Boris

    Make it a proper contest.

    Boris is dangerous. As likely to blow up in Leave's face as to help it imo. I would welcome his support for Leave with extreme caution.
    But Boris defuses the Little Englander charge that Remain likes to bandy about.
    Boris could help leave's campaign but on the other hand he could be an unmitigated disaster. Can anyone really say they know him
    Petronella Wyatt?
  • Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    Don't think David Cameron will shed a tear at that news
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,906
    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    Very interesting. Does this say something about the sainted Lord A and his coffers? That would be good news for Leave, strategically as well as financially.
  • Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    T.
    I.
    W
    I don't begrudge the Government for creating jobs; I'm just unconvinced further cuts in corporation tax will add to the sum of human happiness. Our current rate is already very competitive. I would prioritise other measures.

    My broader point is just to highlight just how much of a pressure-value the EU is to the UK: it is a sign of our fundamental incompatibility in an economic and political union where we are not on the same journey, which will only grow worse over time.

    You may think that's mutually good for both the EU and ourselves; it may be good for them, but I'm not at all convinced its good for us. I think the balance of public opinion is very far from your PoV.

    Your final point is a straw man. It demonstrates the prejudice at the heart of any earnest well-to-do middle-class Remainer like yourself who believes opposition to mass immigration is purely driven by xenophobia and hostility.

    Which just shows how totally out of touch you are.
  • Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    Tory gain
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,288
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    It certainly looks as though Trump will grind out enough delegates whilst the remaining clowns are still chucking pies at each other.
  • Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    Does that mean he'll stop being on the telly?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited February 2016
    Anyone see the party political broadcast for Labour? They start off with the economy failing and they've managed to shoo in a family which has a nurse and a bloke on a zero hours contract. And then they bleat on about a "real living wage". The dark tones, the woman who works thirty hours, and the most dramatic way sighs she cant work for more. They then have a pop that she cant afford the solicitors fees never mind the 5% help to buy.

    Apparently David Cameron doesnt care. Somebody who is an MP somewhere said so, while sounding like a primary school pupil reading at a nativity play.

    Utter drivel. How do they think this is going to gain support for them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b071c9xl/party-political-broadcasts-labour-party-17022016
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    That is total bollocks, as you know, and I'm amazed you repost it. Boris is the one politician with proven cross-party appeal. He won leftwing London, FFS. There is a reason every reliable journalist says BoJo is the one politician REMAIN really fear, it is because it is true. He is a wild card. He could go down great, he might fail, but there's no doubt he has the charisma to change things.

    Don't go all Nabavi & Meeks, post serious stuff. Ta.



    From where I'm sitting one of us has spent all day spewing out half-formed nonsense about the referendum all day on the site and it's not me.

    Boris Johnson would be an undoubted coup for Leave, but Leave really need a solid sensible big beast and Boris Johnson isn't that. They're already fully stocked on wild cards. Theresa May would be the big prize.
  • Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2016
    Boris and Gove backing Leave?
  • notme said:

    Anyone see the party political broadcast for Labour? They start off with the economy failing and they've managed to shoo in a family which has a nurse and a bloke on a zero hours contract. And then they bleat on about a "real living wage". The dark tones, the woman who works thirty hours, and the most dramatic way sighs she cant work for more. They then have a pop that she cant afford the solicitors fees never mind the 5% help to buy.

    Apparently David Cameron doesnt care. Somebody who is an MP somewhere said so, while sounding like a primary school pupil reading at a nativity play.

    Utter drivel. How do they think this is going to gain support for them?

    I saw it too. Thought it was quite ironic when unemployment is down again. A distinct lack of solutions being offered
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,116

    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    Can't really remember Montie being right on much. Basically it's been a tantrum brewing for a long time, and the EU referendums was his chance to attempt to inflict some damage.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,380
    Tim Montgomerie has resigned his membership of the Tory Party, to UKIP?
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/700073782237499392
  • Some chap on twitter after I tweeted the Montie story

    never did quite get over Cameron's victory, did he?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.
  • Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    Mr sour grapes incarnate. He has spent years trying to undermine the party and having failed he now leaves it in typical self serving fashion.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,806
    edited February 2016
    White House Down on ITV2 :)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    British politics is in an unprecedented state of flux.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,380
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
  • rcs1000 said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    But at the last minute will fortutiously regain their balance, and walk reluctantly away from the exit.

    I'll believe it when I see it. Although I do think Osborne will plan for at least one "seeded" Leaver, who can come out for his leadership later on, thereby "uniting" the party.
    That's the thing, isn't it. They burnish their credentials for the leadership contest by appearing to prevaricate now.

    I admire Peter Bone and Anna Soubry more. At least you know where they genuinely stand.
    I agree.

    Although I cut Gove a bit more slack because (a) he's sincere (b) he's loyal so he sort of has an excuse for (c) can't decide. And I respect him.

    Boris is a pure opportunist.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    I'd be more sorry if he hadn't been such an utter dick around the election in 2015.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,703
    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?
  • Jonathan said:

    British politics is in an unprecedented state of flux.

    You are getting confused with what's going on within the Labour Party!
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    Montgomerie is an overly emotional and attention-seeking right wing version of Polly Toynbee.

    Ms Toynbee of Brown is the saviour of the world; Brown is shite, vote Lib Dem. Lib Dems are evil, vote for the once in a lifetime Miliband..... intellectual vintage...

    I get nothing interesting from either of them.

  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    That is total bollocks, as you know, and I'm amazed you repost it. Boris is the one politician with proven cross-party appeal. He won leftwing London, FFS. There is a reason every reliable journalist says BoJo is the one politician REMAIN really fear, it is because it is true. He is a wild card. He could go down great, he might fail, but there's no doubt he has the charisma to change things.

    Don't go all Nabavi & Meeks, post serious stuff. Ta.



    From where I'm sitting one of us has spent all day spewing out half-formed nonsense about the referendum all day on the site and it's not me.

    Boris Johnson would be an undoubted coup for Leave, but Leave really need a solid sensible big beast and Boris Johnson isn't that. They're already fully stocked on wild cards. Theresa May would be the big prize.
    Just stop now, thx
    Come on, we've had 12 hours of your emotional incontinence sprawling across the site, adding bile, witless insults and incomprehensible overreaction to no good effect. A post or two from alternative viewpoints will do no harm.
  • Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506
    Pulpstar said:

    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?

    Dan Hodges was right in 2015.

    Tim Montgomerie was right in his dreams.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107

    Jonathan said:

    British politics is in an unprecedented state of flux.

    You are getting confused with what's going on within the Labour Party!
    Seem like both big parties now have issues.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506
    I shouldn't read AEP in the Telegraph. He annoys me too much.
  • Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    That is total bollocks, as you know, and I'm amazed you repost it. Boris is the one politician with proven cross-party appeal. He won leftwing London, FFS. There is a reason every reliable journalist says BoJo is the one politician REMAIN really fear, it is because it is true. He is a wild card. He could go down great, he might fail, but there's no doubt he has the charisma to change things.

    Don't go all Nabavi & Meeks, post serious stuff. Ta.



    From where I'm sitting one of us has spent all day spewing out half-formed nonsense about the referendum all day on the site and it's not me.

    Boris Johnson would be an undoubted coup for Leave, but Leave really need a solid sensible big beast and Boris Johnson isn't that. They're already fully stocked on wild cards. Theresa May would be the big prize.
    Just stop now, thx
    Come on, we've had 12 hours of your emotional incontinence sprawling across the site, adding bile, witless insults and incomprehensible overreaction to no good effect. A post or two from alternative viewpoints will do no harm.
    Disagree strongly with the "witless" comment!
  • Unusually I agree with Alastair. Johnson is big wildcard for Leave campaign. He is sort of person that could say something that undermines key messaging strategy on a whim. Equally he would use up all the oxygen and stop more harder working junior ministers getting coverage (Villiers? Patel?)

    May would be massive coup, but looks like she's letting it slip through her fingers.
  • Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    Can't really remember Montie being right on much. Basically it's been a tantrum brewing for a long time, and the EU referendums was his chance to attempt to inflict some damage.

    Not so much volte face as save face.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    But at the last minute will fortutiously regain their balance, and walk reluctantly away from the exit.

    I'll believe it when I see it. Although I do think Osborne will plan for at least one "seeded" Leaver, who can come out for his leadership later on, thereby "uniting" the party.
    That's the thing, isn't it. They burnish their credentials for the leadership contest by appearing to prevaricate now.

    I admire Peter Bone and Anna Soubry more. At least you know where they genuinely stand.
    Agreed.
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    I'd be more sorry if he hadn't been such an utter dick around the election in 2015.
    I know what you mean, but that wing of the party should not be lost.

    Also, I think he has a point about traditional Tory activists.
  • @MrHarryCole: Oliver Letwin - he of 'bombproofing' NHS reforms and Royal Charter over pizza in Miliband's office - is charge of new sovereignty law. Hmm
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,288
    pb.com indulging in more needling than a Women's Institute quilting bee.....
  • Also agree with Tim Montgomery. Lots of voters are like me and voting Tory because alternatives are all useless. If there was a serious pro-business patriotic centre-left alternative, Cameron would be left for dust.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,990

    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    Lots of people are coming to the same place, in the end.

    There must be more former, than current, members of the Conservative Party.
  • Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    No but people like Montie in specific are loonies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    That's an outrageous slur. Chris_A wants Strasbourg to be in charge, not Brussels.
  • Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    We should be tolerant to the Euro loonies: they can't get over the fact that the UK will never join the euro, or be at the heart of Europe, but that's no reason to force them to leave.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.
    60% of Americans have unfavourable view of Trump. Especially Hispanics, who he needs some of to win Florida.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Only in the minds of the Euro loonies does Brussels control Britain. We have a stake in what goes on and it's up to us to use our influence or not.

    It's akin to joining a gold club and then accusing them of controlling you if you don't get your own way against the rest of the members.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @davieclegg: New #sp16 poll: Labour still lagging way behind SNP despite penny on tax policy winning public support https://t.co/kcHMQubW4u
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506
    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?

    Dan Hodges was right in 2015.

    Tim Montgomerie was right in his dreams.
    Dan Hodges predicted the indyref would be a runaway win for NO, then went oddly quiet right at the end, then posted a sullen column saying So what, Labour under Miliband are blah blah
    If you read my comment *really* closely, you'll see the sixth word was '2015'.

    That means last year. As in, the year before this. As in, the year in which the Scottish independence referendum was not. Dan Hodges was precisely the only Labourite to realise how useless Ed Milliband was.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,990
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    It's of no interest to you, perhaps, but you shouldn't project your views onto others.
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Are the electorate interested in immigration?
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Its not life or death but it does make a big difference to politics. Scottish nationalists did not give up when they lost a referendum so no reason eurosceptics should. Esp as Eurozone bloc voting likely to prove worst fears right in coming years.
  • It isn't because of his views that I think Montie's an idiotic drama queen, who has as much political nous in his entire body, as Sir Lynton Crosby has in one of his bogies.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/678877529562853376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Scott_P said:

    @davieclegg: New #sp16 poll: Labour still lagging way behind SNP despite penny on tax policy winning public support https://t.co/kcHMQubW4u

    Usually people are very keen on taxes that other people pay....
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.
    Well, I hope you're right: I'm more exposed on Bush and Rubio than a nudist convention at the South Pole.

    And with that thought, I bid you goodnight.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?

    Dan Hodges was right in 2015.

    Tim Montgomerie was right in his dreams.
    Dan Hodges was very wrong on UKIP.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?

    Dan Hodges was right in 2015.

    Tim Montgomerie was right in his dreams.
    Dan Hodges was very wrong on UKIP.
    Did he think they'd get two seats?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,121

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?

    Dan Hodges was right in 2015.

    Tim Montgomerie was right in his dreams.
    Dan Hodges was very wrong on UKIP.
    He was 100% right if you ignore the things he called completely wrong
  • SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Are Dan Hodges and Tim Montgomerie going to form their own political party ?

    Dan Hodges was right in 2015.

    Tim Montgomerie was right in his dreams.
    Dan Hodges predicted the indyref would be a runaway win for NO, then went oddly quiet right at the end, then posted a sullen column saying So what, Labour under Miliband are blah blah
    That sounds like a right prediction still. No won by nearly 400k votes, they got 25% more votes than Yes got.

    The referendum was simply not that close.
  • Unusually I agree with Alastair. Johnson is big wildcard for Leave campaign. He is sort of person that could say something that undermines key messaging strategy on a whim. Equally he would use up all the oxygen and stop more harder working junior ministers getting coverage (Villiers? Patel?)

    May would be massive coup, but looks like she's letting it slip through her fingers.

    Whoever stands up for leave, where are they going to say they want to go to?
    The EEA?
    Then broadly there is no real difference.
    What are they going to suggest?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    We should be tolerant to the Euro loonies: they can't get over the fact that the UK will never join the euro, or be at the heart of Europe, but that's no reason to force them to leave.
    They're not being forced to leave - they are acting like the archetypal 3 year old who doesn't get his own way and flounces off in a tantrum.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107

    It isn't because of his views that I think Montie's an idiotic drama queen, who has as much political nous in his entire body, as Sir Lynton Crosby has in one of his bogies.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/678877529562853376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Not necessarily untrue. Daves heart may not have been in it. Might explain what's going on right now.
  • SeanT said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Genius.
    Funny how No-One Cares About The EU™ is almost exclusively used by Remainers.

    Almost as if they don't want anyone talking about the subject.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I backed Rubio at 4.7 on the 10th because I thuoght a vaguely not rubbish showing in SC would cause his price to plunge and I would go back to laying him then (or Jeb Bush withdrawing would make eeryone assume Rubio was getting his votes and so caused his price to plunge) but it's already dropped to 3.8 to lay.

    Lock in the profit on the field or gamble on it going lower for a bigger reward?

    Rubio +1.1
    Trump +532.09
    Cruz +697.86
    Bush -999.31

    That's what I'm doing right now. (I've made a few trading errors this cycle but haven't we all)

    Level Rubio off imo. He is too short - but he goes shorter is Bush ends his campaign after South Carolina.
    My modest sums currently are

    Donald Trump
    £83.14

    Marco Rubio
    -£43.44

    Ted Cruz
    £18.83

    Jeb Bush
    £1.23

    John Kasich
    £85.59

    The Field
    -£13.91

    I made some severe trading errors due to lack of sleep.
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Only in the minds of the Euro loonies does Brussels control Britain. We have a stake in what goes on and it's up to us to use our influence or not.

    It's akin to joining a gold club and then accusing them of controlling you if you don't get your own way against the rest of the members.
    WHO GOVERNS BRITAIN?

    If we vote LEAVE, we can at least govern ourselves

    If we vote REMAIN, we remain a part of the Borg EU Collective.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.
    Well, I hope you're right: I'm more exposed on Bush and Rubio than a nudist convention at the South Pole.

    And with that thought, I bid you goodnight.
    Two weeks ago I was big on Rubio. I topped up on him post Iowa. I saw him winning New Hampshire and strolling to the nomination and the Presidency.

    Then, lying in bed, I started to watch the Republican debate. It was a car crash. I've never seen anything like it. Rubio was not just bad, he was off the wall awful. An empty suit reciting a soundbite. He cannot ever be taken seriously again.

    I sold every inch of my position.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,380
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.

    'Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover'???? PPP today has Trump losing North Carolina to Sanders, Romney beat Obama in North Carolina!
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Only in the minds of the Euro loonies does Brussels control Britain. We have a stake in what goes on and it's up to us to use our influence or not.

    It's akin to joining a gold club and then accusing them of controlling you if you don't get your own way against the rest of the members.
    A club that costs £10 billion a year to join?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
    Merkel's party's average share drops below 35% with polls conducted during the last 6 weeks.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de/status/699989024543535104
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.

    'Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover'???? PPP today has Trump losing North Carolina to Sanders, Romney beat Obama in North Carolina!
    PPP is wrong.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,703
    edited February 2016
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    He's waiting till he's won the GOP race to turn his fire on Hilary. I thought you were a Rubio-Kasich ticket man anyway ?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Only in the minds of the Euro loonies does Brussels control Britain. We have a stake in what goes on and it's up to us to use our influence or not.

    It's akin to joining a gold club and then accusing them of controlling you if you don't get your own way against the rest of the members.
    Like Cameron has used our influence to bring back an amazing "deal"?

    We have little influence. This will always be the case as long as we are outside of the Eurozone. As the Eurozone begins to resemble a single country any influence we do have will be eroded further.
  • Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:

    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi

    TSE might be pleased at losing Montie, but I really don't want this.

    Splitting or haemorrhaging of the Conservative Party is not good news.

    I really really don't want this.
    Lots of people are coming to the same place, in the end.

    There must be more former, than current, members of the Conservative Party.
    Whereas there are more former, than current, voters for the Conservative Party than any election post 1992.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Are the electorate interested in immigration?
    Immigration is not the EU. The Euro loons say that we'll be like Norway or Switzerland and still have all the benefits of the single market. Have you checked recently Norway or Switzerland's rights to the free movement of EU citizens? And they don't even have a say in it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Only in the minds of the Euro loonies does Brussels control Britain. We have a stake in what goes on and it's up to us to use our influence or not.

    It's akin to joining a gold club and then accusing them of controlling you if you don't get your own way against the rest of the members.
    WHO GOVERNS BRITAIN?

    If we vote LEAVE, we can at least govern ourselves

    If we vote REMAIN, we remain a part of the Borg EU Collective.
    Problem is that's a load of old bollocks. Economic forces will prevail regardless.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.
    Well, I hope you're right: I'm more exposed on Bush and Rubio than a nudist convention at the South Pole.

    And with that thought, I bid you goodnight.
    Two weeks ago I was big on Rubio. I topped up on him post Iowa. I saw him winning New Hampshire and strolling to the nomination and the Presidency.
    .
    You don't also post as Cromwell do you?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited February 2016
    I'd like to see the powerful foursome of Robert Kilroy Silk, the late Mike Dickin, Richard Desmond and Jonny Adair's wife (Mad Bitch, draped in a Union Jack) leading the OUT campaign.

    They'd really broaden the appeal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,380
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    Rubio or Kasich would win the general election with few problems after 8 years of Obama, Trump gives Hillary and even Sanders a fighting chance
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    It's of no interest to you, perhaps, but you shouldn't project your views onto others.
    I'm sure Mike will post one of his helpful graphs again showing the percentage of the electorate who think Europe is a major issue. It isn't, only to Tory and UKIP obsessives.
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    We should be tolerant to the Euro loonies: they can't get over the fact that the UK will never join the euro, or be at the heart of Europe, but that's no reason to force them to leave.
    They're not being forced to leave - they are acting like the archetypal 3 year old who doesn't get his own way and flounces off in a tantrum.
    I agree, Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry, Nicholas Soames and Michael Heseltine really need to learn to calm down and act like grown-ups.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Seems like a severe outlier poll, the other 2 that came today had Trump leads of 15 and 20 points, and a change of that magnitude would have been evident in the S.Carolina and Nevada polls today but Trump is leading them by an average of 18 and 26 points.
    Also Cruz has never been that high up nationally:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/700079546780012544
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    We should be tolerant to the Euro loonies: they can't get over the fact that the UK will never join the euro, or be at the heart of Europe, but that's no reason to force them to leave.
    They're not being forced to leave - they are acting like the archetypal 3 year old who doesn't get his own way and flounces off in a tantrum.
    I agree, Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry, Nicholas Soames and Michael Heseltine really need to learn to calm down and act like grown-ups.
    I haven't actually heard anything from Ken Clarke. Is he still (a) an MP, and/or (b) still alive?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2016
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Are the electorate interested in immigration?
    Immigration is not the EU. The Euro loons say that we'll be like Norway or Switzerland and still have all the benefits of the single market. Have you checked recently Norway or Switzerland's rights to the free movement of EU citizens? And they don't even have a say in it.
    Lol so much ignorance.

    See Articles 112-3 of the EEA Agreement.
  • Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    I have to say I am surprised it's taken you so long. You have to think Regan would be spinning in his grave.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    Rubio or Kasich would win the general election with few problems after 8 years of Obama, Trump gives Hillary and even Sanders a fighting chance
    I still have no idea who I'm going to vote for on March 1 in the SEC Primary.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,703
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    That's a ballsy call. I'd say 75% for the nomination and 40% for Presidency at the moment.

    So anything over 3.5 on Betfair probably value for Presidency, and definite buy at over 6s!
    Cruz can't win because (a) he only enthuses the religious right, and (b) the establishment would prefer Trump in preference. He'll won't even get all the states Santorum or Huckabee did. (He'll lose Nevada for example.)

    Rubio can't win because of "that debate".

    Bush is a Bush. Kasich is disorganised, too late, and too left wing. Carson doesn't have a hope.

    80-85% seems about right to me.

    Versus Sanders, it's a Trump walkover.
    Versus Clinton, I'd make him narrow favourite.
    Well, I hope you're right: I'm more exposed on Bush and Rubio than a nudist convention at the South Pole.

    And with that thought, I bid you goodnight.
    Two weeks ago I was big on Rubio. I topped up on him post Iowa. I saw him winning New Hampshire and strolling to the nomination and the Presidency.

    Then, lying in bed, I started to watch the Republican debate. It was a car crash. I've never seen anything like it. Rubio was not just bad, he was off the wall awful. An empty suit reciting a soundbite. He cannot ever be taken seriously again.

    I sold every inch of my position.
    Well he won the last debate, Jeb is completely collapsing, Cruz is being called a liar by both Rubio and Trump (And it seems to be sticking) and Trump sounded like the reincarnation of Michael Moore at the last debate.
  • Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Are the electorate interested in immigration?
    Immigration is not the EU. The Euro loons say that we'll be like Norway or Switzerland and still have all the benefits of the single market. Have you checked recently Norway or Switzerland's rights to the free movement of EU citizens? And they don't even have a say in it.
    How will we have any say when Eurogroup decides before they even talk to us?

    For record, Leave campaign spokesmen are now saying it will be bespoke deal so not Norway/Switzerland model.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,506
    Speedy said:

    Seems like a severe outlier poll, the other 2 that came today had Trump leads of 15 and 20 points, and a change of that magnitude would have been evident in the S.Carolina and Nevada polls today but Trump is leading them by an average of 18 and 26 points.
    Also Cruz has never been that high up nationally:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/700079546780012544

    Cruz barely scraped 28% in evangelical Iowa.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,703
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    Rubio or Kasich would win the general election with few problems after 8 years of Obama, Trump gives Hillary and even Sanders a fighting chance
    I still have no idea who I'm going to vote for on March 1 in the SEC Primary.
    If you're independent, then you should vote in the DEM contest for Supreme Vermin.
  • Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Calm down dear, it's only Brussels. It's not the British Empire taking over India.
    We'll not become coolies.
This discussion has been closed.