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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Trump has got at least a 50% chance of winning the nomi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Trump has got at least a 50% chance of winning the nomination

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  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    FPT:
    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    edited February 2016
    Worrying film re long term impact of rugby union.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35558846
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    @hunchman

    Your Finchley Road corruption story is over a year old.
    I'll not hold my breath, and I'd recommend you don't either.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: From me in Brussels: other nations want Britain's child benefit "export" restrictions, spooking e. European nations https://t.co/QcogEBd0WP
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
  • Options
    That all stacks up.

    His price for the Presidency is still great value.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    That all stacks up.

    His price for the Presidency is still great value.

    Agreed.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
    I believe she's planning to have Bill as her VP pick
  • Options
    Well that's me moved back to the Remain camp.
  • Options
    Got my £100 on at 6.2 for the Presidency... I do think he can run Clinton down. Today's polls show him winning - let's take them with a pince of salt - but effectively 2/1 for the presidency with the nomination is too long.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
    I believe she's planning to have Bill as her VP pick
    I thought Monica Lewinski was nailed on to be Hillary's running mate.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
    I believe she's planning to have Bill as her VP pick
    Nah, he's Rubio's pick.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    rcs1000 said:

    @hunchman

    Your Finchley Road corruption story is over a year old.
    I'll not hold my breath, and I'd recommend you don't either.

    There was nothing about in the mainstream media when the evidence was handed to the BBC in March of last year by Gordon Bowden, and they've sat on it since because its so explosive. If you don't consume any alternative media then you simply wouldn't have heard of it. Thank goodness for the internet and the tireless work over the past 14 years of Mr Bowden.
  • Options
    Tusk: EU leaders have "no choice" but to do a deal on David Cameron's reforms:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35592466
  • Options
    Concession to Cameron?

    'Friday 08:00: Discussions will continue over an "English Breakfast" if no agreement on the UK demands has been reached on Thursday'
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    He'd be an absolutely inspired VP pick for Hillary if the GOP candidate were Trump. ould help in working with Congress later, too. He's the only contender who is emerging with his reputation enhanced - he seems not to have any enemies at all, though not enough frenzied friends to win outright.

    A cross-party ticket would be unprecedented, though - not sure it's conceivable.
  • Options
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @hunchman

    Your Finchley Road corruption story is over a year old.
    I'll not hold my breath, and I'd recommend you don't either.

    There was nothing about in the mainstream media when the evidence was handed to the BBC in March of last year by Gordon Bowden, and they've sat on it since because its so explosive. If you don't consume any alternative media then you simply wouldn't have heard of it. Thank goodness for the internet and the tireless work over the past 14 years of Mr Bowden.
    If any of it was true he would have been brown bread a long time ago.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    The above Twitter stream is from a committed anti-Trump guy.
    If he's saying that even at the worst possible case for Trump, Trump has a 50-50 chance to be the GOP nominee, then it took him 6 months to reach my position regarding the odds, his fanaticism clouded his judgement for too long.

    In my estimation if Trump also wins S.Carolina he has a 2/3 chance, if he also wins Nevada that's a 90% chance (territory were only big personal issues like death will only prevent Trump from winning).

    The only threat to Trump right now is Cruz, since he is the only one who can win primaries other than Trump.

    Rubio doesn't have a regional base apart from Florida (even there Trump's lead is very big) nor the evangelicals, and the vote of elected officials is worth about the same in each state with little variation (with the exception of Virginia where most D.C politicians live and Trump is leading there too) .
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    edited February 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    He'd be an absolutely inspired VP pick for Hillary if the GOP candidate were Trump. ould help in working with Congress later, too. He's the only contender who is emerging with his reputation enhanced - he seems not to have any enemies at all, though not enough frenzied friends to win outright.

    A cross-party ticket would be unprecedented, though - not sure it's conceivable.
    Republican governor unlikely to back a Clinton.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    He is the closest to a Cameroon of any candidate running, he would win the general election but will not get the nomination of the present GOP. Hillary will pick Julian Castro as he VP, that will seal up the Hispanic vote and the female vote while Trump has white males
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
    I believe she's planning to have Bill as her VP pick
    I thought Monica Lewinski was nailed on to be Hillary's running mate.
    Hillary would find Monica as her running mate hard to swallow
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
    I believe she's planning to have Bill as her VP pick
    I thought Monica Lewinski was nailed on to be Hillary's running mate.
    Hillary would find Monica as her running mate hard to swallow
    As a choice, I think that she will be close but no cigar!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Concession to Cameron?

    'Friday 08:00: Discussions will continue over an "English Breakfast" if no agreement on the UK demands has been reached on Thursday'

    His big win against the French....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Kasich is NOT a Cameroon lol - "Moderate" in the GOP means slightly to the right of Philip Davies.
  • Options
    Don't see Trump going with Kasich.

    I don't like Kasich. I think he is a deceptive political gutter snipe, but in the absence of someone I would be happy to vote for I suppose I might vote for him, but since he will not be the Republican candidate, who cares? I spent several days with Kasich at a meeting and was severely unimpressed.

    Disagree that Cruz could get 30 plus, maybe in particularly favourable states.

    Trump has got a bump from NH, especially considering the knock he took from Iowa.
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary

    Trump looks nailed on to me.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    Concession to Cameron?

    'Friday 08:00: Discussions will continue over an "English Breakfast" if no agreement on the UK demands has been reached on Thursday'

    His big win against the French....
    We will see soon if this story had any merit...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    South Carolina Monmouth

    Trump 35
    Cruz 19
    Rubio 17
    Kasich 9
    Bush 8

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/55811f0b-8491-4ef3-972e-967977584c58.pdf

    South Carolina SC House

    Trump 34
    Cruz 16
    Rubio 15
    Bush 15
    Kasich 8
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitdGp6OVZxM2NFaGM/view


    South Carolina ARG

    GOP

    Trump 33
    Rubio 16
    Cruz 14
    Kasich 14
    Bush 9

    Dems

    Clinton 61
    Sanders 31
    http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/screp.html



  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    He'd be an absolutely inspired VP pick for Hillary if the GOP candidate were Trump. ould help in working with Congress later, too. He's the only contender who is emerging with his reputation enhanced - he seems not to have any enemies at all, though not enough frenzied friends to win outright.

    A cross-party ticket would be unprecedented, though - not sure it's conceivable.
    That's fan fiction, not a serious political discussion.
    A republican will never run on a democratic ticket and vice versa.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    SeanT said:

    This is clearly a nefarious French plot to make me vote REMAIN, in the mistaken belief that the French want us to LEAVE.

    Or is it a triple bluff and they really want us to REMAIN by pretending they want us to LEAVE so we think they really want us to REMAIN? Or LEAVE?

    Or....
    Man in Black: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/quotes?item=qt0482733
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Judge and jury report on this is going to be very accurate......not:

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/bbc-given-ten-days-read-jimmy-savile-review-document-made-public
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    SeanT said:

    Interesting in The Times (££)

    The PM can refuse a deal tomorrow, and ask for another summit in two weeks, and still hit his referendum date of June 23.

    That's what I'd be aiming for, if I were him. In terms of panto.

    Maximum drama, PM stands up for Britain, brilliant deal secured at the very last moment, Queen preserved from French plan to turn her into effeminately scented soap.

    Of course it requires the other 27 actors to willingly play along, and be theatrically gifted.

    I am sure this has all been scripted.. then again I am probably just bored!
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    @rcs1000 Whoever the nominee is for the Presidency, Kasich looks like a great VP choice to get the big, crucial O.

    Best of all, he could be the VP pick for either Hillary or one of the Republicans :lol:
    I'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice if he is Democrat VP nominee :)
    What about Bloomberg's VP nomination?
    Hillary/Bloomberg would go down like a cup of cold sick lol.
    I believe she's planning to have Bill as her VP pick
    I thought Monica Lewinski was nailed on to be Hillary's running mate.
    Hillary would find Monica as her running mate hard to swallow
    As a choice, I think that she will be close but no cigar!
    LOL.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    PPP North Carolina

    GOP

    Trump 29
    Cruz 19
    Rubio 16
    Kasich 11
    Carson 9
    Bush 7

    Dems

    Clinton 52
    Sanders 33

    General Election

    Clinton 43% Trump 44%
    Clinton 40% Rubio 49%
    Clinton 43% Cruz 46%
    Clinton 42% Bush 44%

    Sanders 44% Trump 42%
    Sanders 43% Cruz 43%
    Sanders 43% Bush 42%
    Sanders 41% Rubio 45%

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_21716.pdf
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    HYUFD said:

    PPP North Carolina

    GOP

    Trump 29
    Cruz 19
    Rubio 16
    Kasich 11
    Carson 9
    Bush 7

    Dems

    Clinton 52
    Sanders 33

    General Election

    Clinton 43% Trump 44%
    Clinton 40% Rubio 49%
    Clinton 43% Cruz 46%
    Clinton 42% Bush 44%

    Sanders 44% Trump 42%
    Sanders 43% Cruz 43%
    Sanders 43% Bush 42%
    Sanders 41% Rubio 45%

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_21716.pdf

    Toxic Hillary
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Quinnipiac GOP national

    Trump 39%
    Rubio 19%
    Cruz 18%
    Kasich 6%
    Carson 4%
    Bush 4%

    Dems

    Clinton 44%
    Sanders 42%


    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/us/us02172016_Ut34wgb.pdf
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I still think Rubio has a SLIGHT chance of doing it. I still think he could potentially make big inroads into Cruz's Christian base, based on his wholesome image (assuming the Blind Gossip item a few weeks ago wasn't true...) and his conservative-enough policy positions. IF he can combine a decent chunk of the Christian vote with the wealthy "country club" vote then he might just be able to overcome Trump.

    But the flaw in all this is that his debate meltdown has dealt a big blow to his "I'm electable" argument. If a "moderate" (relatively speaking) wants to get the more purist voters to compromise, then they need at the very least to prove they're going to win the election to make that compromise worthwhile; if someone whose heart is with Trump/Cruz/Kasich fears that Rubio would just get eaten alive in the debates in the General Election anyway, then they'll figure they may as well just go with their heart.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    PPP North Carolina

    GOP

    Trump 29
    Cruz 19
    Rubio 16
    Kasich 11
    Carson 9
    Bush 7

    Dems

    Clinton 52
    Sanders 33

    General Election

    Clinton 43% Trump 44%
    Clinton 40% Rubio 49%
    Clinton 43% Cruz 46%
    Clinton 42% Bush 44%

    Sanders 44% Trump 42%
    Sanders 43% Cruz 43%
    Sanders 43% Bush 42%
    Sanders 41% Rubio 45%

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NC_21716.pdf

    Toxic Hillary
    Yes and Sanders beats Trump in North Carolina while Hillary trails him, albeit by 1%
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    FPT, I think the reason why Ipsos MORI stands out so much from other pollsters is that it's headline EU referendum numbers are of all voters expressing a view. The numbers for those who are likely to vote are 50/40 Remain, for those who are certain to vote 49/42. By contrast, those who are certain not to vote split 60/28 Remain. The Likely and Certain numbers are in the same ballpark as ComRes and ICM. Remain gets lots of young left wingers who won't vote.

    Among Likely and Certain voters Ipsos MORI show a small shift to Leave from last month. Both numbers were 52/41 then.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Kasich is NOT a Cameroon lol - "Moderate" in the GOP means slightly to the right of Philip Davies.

    Kasich is pro gay marriage 'If the Court has spoken that is the end of it' http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/john-kasich-on-gay-marriage-the-court-has-spoken-thats-the-end-of-it/#gs.SmmD9eY

    He is also one of the few Republicans to have acknowledged climate change as a problem
    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/225073-kasich-touts-climate-belief-but-wont-apologize-for-coal

    Sounds pretty Cameroon to me!!
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Incidentally, with the failure of the liberals and return of the socialists to loonyism, I'd say a socially liberal, fiscally dry but really cares about reducing immigration Tory party would get 45% of the vote at present.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Somewhat bizzarely Ted Cruz is longer odds than Jeb Bush for the nomination.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    I agree Trump will do slightly better than Bush with bluecollar whites, especially in the NorthEast and Upper MidWest but slightly worse than Bush with wealthy white suburbans. Bush is more establishment than Trump, Phillips Academy and Yale and Harvard Business School and son of a President and grandson of a Senator to Trump's New York Military Academy, Fordham and University of Pennsylvania Business School and son of a multimillionaire property developer but not by much.

    Trump also has a much higher net worth, $4.5 billion to Dubya's $35 million
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Incidentally, with the failure of the liberals and return of the socialists to loonyism, I'd say a socially liberal, fiscally dry but really cares about reducing immigration Tory party would get 45% of the vote at present.
    Trump is trying to move away from his social liberalism, he has said he is pro life and will try and reverse gay marriage
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Mori today had Leave leading amonst C2DEs but Remain leading with ABC1s, so certainly the WWC are more likely to back BREXIT
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    People who didn't vote UKIP at the GE because it was a wasted vote/too scared of letting the other side in/tradition
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Somewhat bizzarely Ted Cruz is longer odds than Jeb Bush for the nomination.

    And Bush might drop out by Sunday morning if he comes last in S.Carolina, which is a real possibility as the latest polls have him tied or 1 point higher than Carson.

    My speculation about why the odds are so out of line with reality is simply a combination of people needing time to accept change and not paying attention enough to the race.

    We can take all the favourites since 2012 and we will see that it took a long time for the odds to shift and come in line with the polling, in the case of Christie and Bush it took years for reality to sink in the betting markets.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Somewhat bizzarely Ted Cruz is longer odds than Jeb Bush for the nomination.

    And Bush might drop out by Sunday morning if he comes last in S.Carolina, which is a real possibility as the latest polls have him tied or 1 point higher than Carson.

    My speculation about why the odds are so out of line with reality is simply a combination of people needing time to accept change and not paying attention enough to the race.

    We can take all the favourites since 2012 and we will see that it took a long time for the odds to shift and come in line with the polling, in the case of Christie and Bush it took years for reality to sink in the betting markets.
    "You can't lay enough Jeb!" is a motto to which I happily subscribe! Straightforward profit laying Christie at 30s only for him to drop out 24 hours later.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    As I mentioned in the previous thread, has anyone heard of an election being decided by a game of cards?

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/269629-nevada-dem-delegates-may-come-down-to-luck-of-the-draw

    "Iowa Democrats had their coin toss, but Nevada Dems will break caucus ties on Saturday in true Las Vegas fashion — using a deck of cards.

    When Democratic caucusgoers gather throughout the state on Saturday, each precinct will have an unopened, state party-supplied deck of cards and rules on how to settle ties between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders."
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Mori today had Leave leading amonst C2DEs but Remain leading with ABC1s, so certainly the WWC are more likely to back BREXIT
    Labour appear to have learned nothing from Scotland, and are trying their best to lose their Leave voters to UKIP by not being even handed in the debate.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    We are the JobCentre for the EU.

    If Cameron really wanted to cut EU migration he should have made his deal contingent on all other EU countries committing to stop making their economies a sack of shite.

    In the same way we will consistently be outvoted if the eurozone federates on law, we will be consistently inundated with jobseekers whenever it buggers up, or our cycles go out of kilter.

    Which will be quite often.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    We are the JobCentre for the EU.

    If Cameron really wanted to cut EU migration he should have made his deal contingent on all other EU countries committing to stop making their economies a sack of shite.

    In the same way we will consistently be outvoted if the eurozone federates on law, we will be consistently inundated with jobseekers whenever it buggers up, or our cycles go out of kilter.

    Which will be quite often.
    Osborne really is a genius when it comes to the economy.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
    I'm actually coming around to the same way of thinking.

    If Osborne was paying attention to public perceptions he would lower small business Corp tax and keep big business tax at 20%....

    He would win an awful lot of c1s tradesmen who have incorporated (on accountant advice, I'd imagine) and yet been clobbered by his dividend tax.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,558

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
    Forget Thatcher, Adam Smith warned about the power of corporations. It's not 'capitalism' to have massive corrupt corporations running the planet. Perhaps we need a new word/movement for people who want to prune the state but prune big business too. Capitalism and Liberalism are both tainted beyond rehabilitation as concepts.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    In which scenario would we be unable to access immigration???
  • Options
    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    In which scenario would we be unable to access immigration???
    The intention was to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands when one million seem to have been largely absorbed in the last 5 years
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Incidentally, with the failure of the liberals and return of the socialists to loonyism, I'd say a socially liberal, fiscally dry but really cares about reducing immigration Tory party would get 45% of the vote at present.
    Trump is trying to move away from his social liberalism, he has said he is pro life and will try and reverse gay marriage
    Gay marriage won't be reversed. Abortion is being restricted step by step in Red States, without any need to formally overturn Roe v Wade.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    In which scenario would we be unable to access immigration???
    The intention was to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands when one million seem to have been largely absorbed in the last 5 years
    No ifs, no buts.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    Boost productivity, as we did in the 80s and 90s, when economic growth was much faster, and immigration much lower, than today.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    In which scenario would we be unable to access immigration???
    The intention was to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands when one million seem to have been largely absorbed in the last 5 years
    Hasn't got anything to do with it, you said "unable to access immigration" as if we could possibly be crying out for foreigners to do work but would not be able to employ them
  • Options
    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    In which scenario would we be unable to access immigration???
    Won't brexit mean closing all our airports and mining the approaches to our ports?
  • Options
    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @hunchman

    Your Finchley Road corruption story is over a year old.
    I'll not hold my breath, and I'd recommend you don't either.

    There was nothing about in the mainstream media when the evidence was handed to the BBC in March of last year by Gordon Bowden, and they've sat on it since because its so explosive. If you don't consume any alternative media then you simply wouldn't have heard of it. Thank goodness for the internet and the tireless work over the past 14 years of Mr Bowden.
    Dummy... It's all a hologram.

    What an utter sad waste of space this site has become.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    We are the JobCentre for the EU.

    If Cameron really wanted to cut EU migration he should have made his deal contingent on all other EU countries committing to stop making their economies a sack of shite.

    In the same way we will consistently be outvoted if the eurozone federates on law, we will be consistently inundated with jobseekers whenever it buggers up, or our cycles go out of kilter.

    Which will be quite often.
    Osborne really is a genius when it comes to the economy.
    Pretty useless Tory government creating all these jobs.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Turning a little to the democratic nomination, since if Trump wins the next two contests the GOP race will be pretty much over, a very nice table with states, dates and expected margins:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbcOaHbXEAAlKMX.png

    Now PPP came out, with Sanders ahead in Vermont and Massachusetts and 2 points behind Hillary in Oklahoma, which is what you would expect if Sanders would be getting close nationally.

    Using that table, if Sanders is declared the winner in Nevada then he will need Michigan on March 8th and then Illinois on March 15th will be the deciding state for the Dem. nomination.
    If Sanders wins those 3 he's got the nomination, if he loses even one of them then Hillary wins.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
    Rubbish! I work for a global corporate giant, and these are the most beneficent entities for the entire human race. Their tax breaks feed down as wage increases, bonuses and better working conditions for thousands of 'Monday warriors' across the planet. Our soaring affluence then finances the tradesmen and the corner-shop owners far more effectively than some feeble state tax reduction. (What do they ever do with them anyway, buy an extra lottery ticket?) Think big!
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    I agree Trump will do slightly better than Bush with bluecollar whites, especially in the NorthEast and Upper MidWest but slightly worse than Bush with wealthy white suburbans. Bush is more establishment than Trump, Phillips Academy and Yale and Harvard Business School and son of a President and grandson of a Senator to Trump's New York Military Academy, Fordham and University of Pennsylvania Business School and son of a multimillionaire property developer but not by much.

    Trump also has a much higher net worth, $4.5 billion to Dubya's $35 million
    'Dubya'?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2016

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
    When you look at the budget deficits across the OECD we are amongst the least fiscally dry. That is a large part of why we are creating jobs and "growth":

    https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/public-deficit-percentage-gdp

    We are pursuing an expansionary policy while Europe has tightened up significantly. Debt must eventually be paid back. The migration of EU workers is acting as a safety valve to both us and the EU. Against worsening social unrest there and against inflationary pressures here.

    One other point: those 1 in 9 workers on foreign passports work alongside British workers, there is a counterbalancing friendship and fellow feeling with other workers to any rivalry or resentment. The WWC is neither as monolithic nor uniformly hostile as some pb kippers would have it.
  • Options
    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I backed Rubio at 4.7 on the 10th because I thuoght a vaguely not rubbish showing in SC would cause his price to plunge and I would go back to laying him then (or Jeb Bush withdrawing would make eeryone assume Rubio was getting his votes and so caused his price to plunge) but it's already dropped to 3.8 to lay.

    Lock in the profit on the field or gamble on it going lower for a bigger reward?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    I agree Trump will do slightly better than Bush with bluecollar whites, especially in the NorthEast and Upper MidWest but slightly worse than Bush with wealthy white suburbans. Bush is more establishment than Trump, Phillips Academy and Yale and Harvard Business School and son of a President and grandson of a Senator to Trump's New York Military Academy, Fordham and University of Pennsylvania Business School and son of a multimillionaire property developer but not by much.

    Trump also has a much higher net worth, $4.5 billion to Dubya's $35 million
    'Dubya'?
    George W
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
    One of Trump's big advantages is that he isn't religious, particularly.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    edited February 2016

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Mori today had Leave leading amonst C2DEs but Remain leading with ABC1s, so certainly the WWC are more likely to back BREXIT
    Labour appear to have learned nothing from Scotland, and are trying their best to lose their Leave voters to UKIP by not being even handed in the debate.
    The Tories have more to lose to UKIP though, 50% of their voters will back Leave, only 25% of Labour voters. Corbyn will probably be less enthusiastic for Remain than Cameron
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited February 2016

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    I agree Trump will do slightly better than Bush with bluecollar whites, especially in the NorthEast and Upper MidWest but slightly worse than Bush with wealthy white suburbans. Bush is more establishment than Trump, Phillips Academy and Yale and Harvard Business School and son of a President and grandson of a Senator to Trump's New York Military Academy, Fordham and University of Pennsylvania Business School and son of a multimillionaire property developer but not by much.

    Trump also has a much higher net worth, $4.5 billion to Dubya's $35 million
    'Dubya'?
    PS Trump has been in Chapter 11 at least 4 times. He borrows money at rates he cannot afford and spends it on stuff that can't pay it off. He sounds pretty socialist to me.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Almost genius

    @JournoStephen: The "my grievance is bigger than yours" school of Scottish nationalism at its most exquisitely crass. https://t.co/SIipHJdU1b
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Alistair said:

    I backed Rubio at 4.7 on the 10th because I thuoght a vaguely not rubbish showing in SC would cause his price to plunge and I would go back to laying him then (or Jeb Bush withdrawing would make eeryone assume Rubio was getting his votes and so caused his price to plunge) but it's already dropped to 3.8 to lay.

    Lock in the profit on the field or gamble on it going lower for a bigger reward?

    Rubio +1.1
    Trump +532.09
    Cruz +697.86
    Bush -999.31

    That's what I'm doing right now. (I've made a few trading errors this cycle but haven't we all)

    Level Rubio off imo. He is too short - but he goes shorter is Bush ends his campaign after South Carolina.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Incidentally, with the failure of the liberals and return of the socialists to loonyism, I'd say a socially liberal, fiscally dry but really cares about reducing immigration Tory party would get 45% of the vote at present.
    Trump is trying to move away from his social liberalism, he has said he is pro life and will try and reverse gay marriage
    Pro life?

    Presumably he lied in all the previous videos he have about his abortion views because...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Speedy said:

    Turning a little to the democratic nomination, since if Trump wins the next two contests the GOP race will be pretty much over, a very nice table with states, dates and expected margins:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbcOaHbXEAAlKMX.png

    Now PPP came out, with Sanders ahead in Vermont and Massachusetts and 2 points behind Hillary in Oklahoma, which is what you would expect if Sanders would be getting close nationally.

    Using that table, if Sanders is declared the winner in Nevada then he will need Michigan on March 8th and then Illinois on March 15th will be the deciding state for the Dem. nomination.
    If Sanders wins those 3 he's got the nomination, if he loses even one of them then Hillary wins.

    Sanders is just 2% behind in California there and that is not until June
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    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    I agree Trump will do slightly better than Bush with bluecollar whites, especially in the NorthEast and Upper MidWest but slightly worse than Bush with wealthy white suburbans. Bush is more establishment than Trump, Phillips Academy and Yale and Harvard Business School and son of a President and grandson of a Senator to Trump's New York Military Academy, Fordham and University of Pennsylvania Business School and son of a multimillionaire property developer but not by much.

    Trump also has a much higher net worth, $4.5 billion to Dubya's $35 million
    'Dubya'?
    George W
    Only saw the last bit of the thread. Thought the comparison was with JEB.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Incidentally, with the failure of the liberals and return of the socialists to loonyism, I'd say a socially liberal, fiscally dry but really cares about reducing immigration Tory party would get 45% of the vote at present.
    Trump is trying to move away from his social liberalism, he has said he is pro life and will try and reverse gay marriage
    Gay marriage won't be reversed. Abortion is being restricted step by step in Red States, without any need to formally overturn Roe v Wade.
    He has to talk the talk anyway
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    Can May allow them to both clambered the Leave boat - and watch it sail away without her being onboard too? Will make for a fun weekend....
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,967

    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    He'll say he's changed his mind.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,558
    SeanT said:

    Go on, Boris

    Make it a proper contest.

    Boris is dangerous. As likely to blow up in Leave's face as to help it imo. I would welcome his support for Leave with extreme caution.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    Can May allow them to both clambered the Leave boat - and watch it sail away without her being onboard too? Will make for a fun weekend....
    Alternatively, if they are on Leave, is her best chance to be the sceptical Remain-er, if that's going to win...

    I'm convinced that May, Gove and Johnson all care solely about their careers, and think very little about what is actually best for the country.
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    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    They will be reminding everyone of an article that is nearly three years old, and one that is eminently sensible?


    Good luck with that.
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    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Nearly one in nine workers, in Britain, is now foreign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12162120/EU-migrant-surge-has-seen-1m-come-to-Britain-in-the-past-five-years.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    That's a stupefying statistic. And it's this which makes the euroref impossible to call. These workers are impacting on the WWC Labour core vote most of all. But these same Labour voters have been apathetic to the point of catatonia in recent elections.

    But if they come out in their droves, and protest, then Cameron will lose his referendum.

    Who knows.

    Unemployment figures today showed 5.1% the lowest since 2005. The Country has absorbed a lot of this immigration and really does anyone actually think how we would manage our expanding economy if we couldn't access immigration
    In which scenario would we be unable to access immigration???
    The intention was to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands when one million seem to have been largely absorbed in the last 5 years
    No ifs, no buts.
    Turns out there were quite a lot of ifs, and not a few buts.
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    SeanT said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    I cannot believe BoJo is leaning to GoGo. If he is, I award him *chapeau*

    It's brave and right (and good for his career). But it's also brave and right. The LEAVE campaign needs a figurehead to present their argument coherently. It's good for democracy.
    This evening I spoke to someone who works for Remain.

    They want Boris to lead Leave.

    They will be reminding everyone of this. I'm sure this will go down well with the WWC

    Boris Johnson backs call for one-off amnesty for illegal immigrants

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10154389/Boris-Johnson-backs-call-for-one-off-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants.html
    This does rather illustrate how everyone is standing everyone else's world on its head right now. It's all rather loony. The position people are taking is not about the issue, they are making an issue of the position people are taking. People are making a surrogate of the position. The issue is lost in the dross.

    And why not.... There is not much difference between being in the EFTA/EEA as opposed to the EU - so let's play politics with it.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    Can May allow them to both clambered the Leave boat - and watch it sail away without her being onboard too? Will make for a fun weekend....
    Alternatively, if they are on Leave, is her best chance to be the sceptical Remain-er, if that's going to win...

    I'm convinced that May, Gove and Johnson all care solely about their careers, and think very little about what is actually best for the country.
    Don't necessarily agree on Gove, think he is a good man. Anyone willing to take on the education establishment is fine with me.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    SeanT said:

    Go on, Boris

    Make it a proper contest.

    Boris is dangerous. As likely to blow up in Leave's face as to help it imo. I would welcome his support for Leave with extreme caution.
    But Boris defuses the Little Englander charge that Remain likes to bandy about.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.
  • Options

    Both the mayor of London Boris Johnson and the justice secretary Michael Gove are "leaning towards the exit", two well-placed sources have told me.

    Or to put it another way, they are both on the verge of declaring they will campaign to leave the EU, in opposition to the prime minister.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-17/boris-and-gove-leaning-towards-the-exit/

    But at the last minute will fortutiously regain their balance, and walk reluctantly away from the exit.

    I'll believe it when I see it. Although I do think Osborne will plan for at least one "seeded" Leaver, who can come out for his leadership later on, thereby "uniting" the party.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @montie: Me for @TheTimes: Why, after 28 years of membership, I'm quitting Cameron's feeble Con Party https://t.co/iUsI3BT1Df https://t.co/jorJfccAXi
This discussion has been closed.