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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Trump has got at least a 50% chance of winning the nomi

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,058
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Seems like a severe outlier poll, the other 2 that came today had Trump leads of 15 and 20 points, and a change of that magnitude would have been evident in the S.Carolina and Nevada polls today but Trump is leading them by an average of 18 and 26 points.
    Also Cruz has never been that high up nationally:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/700079546780012544

    Cruz barely scraped 28% in evangelical Iowa.
    Holy smokes. Pretty good poll for me and Mr Rabbit though !
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Seems like a severe outlier poll, the other 2 that came today had Trump leads of 15 and 20 points, and a change of that magnitude would have been evident in the S.Carolina and Nevada polls today but Trump is leading them by an average of 18 and 26 points.
    Also Cruz has never been that high up nationally:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/700079546780012544

    Cruz barely scraped 28% in evangelical Iowa.
    He actually got 27% in Iowa.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    I have to say I am surprised it's taken you so long. You have to think Regan (sic) would be spinning in his grave.
    I don't have to vote for almost 2 weeks. Once the onslaught hits Georgia next week I'll be going to events with every candidate - including Trump. Then I'll decide.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,385
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Seems like a severe outlier poll, the other 2 that came today had Trump leads of 15 and 20 points, and a change of that magnitude would have been evident in the S.Carolina and Nevada polls today but Trump is leading them by an average of 18 and 26 points.
    Also Cruz has never been that high up nationally:

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/700079546780012544

    Cruz barely scraped 28% in evangelical Iowa.
    He actually got 27% in Iowa.
    Exactly... barely scraped it (from below) :lol:
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    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    The real Euro "Loonies" are those like YOU who want continued Brussels control over Britain.
    Calm down dear, it's only Brussels. It's not the British Empire taking over India.
    We'll not become coolies.
    Calm down, dear! It's not like the Sun will go Nova and destroy the entire Solar System if we vote to LEAVE :lol:
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm increasingly thinking that Trump will be the next POTUS. Although, I expect some conservatives will be annoyed when he turns out be pretty centrist in practice (I think that many of his supporters aren't especially conservative, except on immigration).

    Indeed. Trump is a billionaire New York businessman. The idea he is some shrill evangelical Puritan, and afraid of migrants and feminism, is daft. He's a showman and a salesman.

    In office I think he'd tall Big but walk Small, on most of these issues. I also think he'd be quite a good president - better than Obama - as he'd make white conservative Americans feel better about themselves, merely for being represented - and it's time that happened - and he'd be a pretty shrewd delegator.

    I think George W Bush represented white conservatives did he not, regardless of the success of his presidency!
    Fair point, but I think Bush was more of an Establishment dynast, and blue collar whites see Trump as more their man.

    But I could be talking total fecking bollocks. I'm slightly drunk (just had my steak), and palpably chillaxing after sending off the final draft of THE FIRE CHILD.

    da da da

    etc
    The Republican Establishment would go the mattresses to champion tax cuts for the richest 1%, while being quite content to amnesty illegal immigrants, if they could. That's about the opposite of what blue collar whites want.
    I've gone off tax breaks and corporation tax cuts for the biggest international companies over the last few years. I suppose someone could argue that makes me less fiscally dry, but I'm not sure Thatcher would see it that way: she always had her eye out for the aspirational lower middle class.

    Unless somebody can truly convince me cutting corporation tax from 20% to 18% is going to make a material difference to all of us, which is Osborne's policy, I'd prefer to use the cash to cut the tax burden on the average working Joe.

    Oh, and I would willingly sacrifice money, in terms of house value and tax, in order to ensure lower immigration too.

    Suspect I am in a minority though. I think most people would prioritise personal wealth over other issues.
    Forget Thatcher, Adam Smith warned about the power of corporations. It's not 'capitalism' to have massive corrupt corporations running the planet. Perhaps we need a new word/movement for people who want to prune the state but prune big business too. Capitalism and Liberalism are both tainted beyond rehabilitation as concepts.
    We could call it social democracy.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Guido Fawkes ✔ @GuidoFawkes
    Euro deal charade pushed @montie over the edge he tells me. Many Tories feel the same.

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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    HYUFD said:
    We know, it looks as credible at the moment as an internal poll from a Jeb Bush PAC.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,058
    It's not an outlier, Jeb is still last.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,924
    edited February 2016
    It's a modernisers wet dream, but also a total myth.

    In reality, Conservative voter retention was very high, they shed a bit to UKIP, but gained only c.20% of LD votes (which splintered a dozen ways) and hardly attracted any Labour votes at all, and vice-versa.

    Those who think New Labour is a model to follow should look at what happened to New Labour.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    Rubio or Kasich would win the general election with few problems after 8 years of Obama, Trump gives Hillary and even Sanders a fighting chance
    I'm not sure Kasich is going to last much longer. We'll see what happens in the SEC Primary - which oddly includes Minnesota.

    Rubio managed to erase the last debate disaster with his performance last weekend. I've not seen any polls yet polling since the debate. They should be here either today or tomorrow.

    A poll out today apparently shows Sanders and Clinton level in NV. I have no details.
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    New Thread New Thread
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PeterMannionMP: Wd that be Tim Montgomerie, Chief of Staff to IDS during the GLORY YEARS?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,058
    New thread seems to have died.
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    It's a modernisers wet dream, but also a total myth.

    In reality, Conservative voter retention was very high, they shed a bit to UKIP, but gained only c.20% of LD votes (which splintered a dozen ways) and hardly attracted any Labour votes at all, and vice-versa.

    Those who think New Labour is a model to follow should look at what happened to New Labour.
    Problem is too many can't think beyond right-left spectrum. Labour wasn't too far left or right in 2010 they just were too out of touch with working class.
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    Jonathan said:

    It isn't because of his views that I think Montie's an idiotic drama queen, who has as much political nous in his entire body, as Sir Lynton Crosby has in one of his bogies.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/678877529562853376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Not necessarily untrue. Daves heart may not have been in it. Might explain what's going on right now.
    very true. demob happy.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,058
    Amusing that 35% think Rubio is "too young" to be president but only 2% think that about Ted Cruz - Ted Cruz is barely 6 months older than Rubio.
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    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    MP_SE said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    The matter of whether we remain in the EU is on no interest to the electorate and yet you elevate it to a matter of life or death. There are far more important things in politics - like the fact that for the first time more doctors have asked for a certificate to leave than have applied to medical school - yet you lot will not even rest when REMAIN wins convincingly at the referendum.
    Are the electorate interested in immigration?
    Immigration is not the EU. The Euro loons say that we'll be like Norway or Switzerland and still have all the benefits of the single market. Have you checked recently Norway or Switzerland's rights to the free movement of EU citizens? And they don't even have a say in it.
    Lol so much ignorance.

    See Articles 112-3 of the EEA Agreement.
    To be used in an emergency - you want to keep those nasty foreigners out all the time. Won't be able to.
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    Pulpstar said:

    New thread seems to have died.

    Premature posting by Mike.

    Happens to the best of us
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Pulpstar said:

    New thread seems to have died.

    Premature posting by Mike.

    Happens to the best of us
    Disembargoed himself, eh?
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    Pulpstar said:

    Amusing that 35% think Rubio is "too young" to be president but only 2% think that about Ted Cruz - Ted Cruz is barely 6 months older than Rubio.

    Age not a number but state of mind!!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,351
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.



    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    Rubio or Kasich would win the general election with few problems after 8 years of Obama, Trump gives Hillary and even Sanders a fighting chance
    I'm not sure Kasich is going to last much longer. We'll see what happens in the SEC Primary - which oddly includes Minnesota.

    Rubio managed to erase the last debate disaster with his performance last weekend. I've not seen any polls yet polling since the debate. They should be here either today or tomorrow.

    A poll out today apparently shows Sanders and Clinton level in NV. I have no details.
    There have been plenty of polls post debate, to take 2 Monmouth today has it Trump 35, Cruz 17, Rubio 15 in SC, Bloomberg Trump 35, Cruz 19, Rubio 17
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south_carolina_republican_presidential_primary-4151.html

    Personally I think Cruz wins Texas, Arkansas, maybe Oklahoma and perhaps some other southern and western states on Super Tuesday and once Rubio drops out after losing Florida on March 15th goes head to head with Trump until at least the end of April. Cruz will be helped by the fact he is most Republican voters second preference so he will close the gap with Trump as other candidates withdraw

    I can see Sanders and Clinton battling all the way until June!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    I have 1 bet on the American Presidency. I have bet a modest sum that Donald Trump is the next President. I am pretty comfortable with the bet. Rather more comfortable than I am with the idea to be honest.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    I don'y understand - what are the things that Germany and France supplies to the UK that we can't make ourselves, and we need so badly we are prepared to give our children's country away for?
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Boris would be taking a huge risk accepting a cast-iron plan from Dave. Dave's track record when it comes to all things cast-iron is not great.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/700080774213562369
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,351
    Another possible explanation for Trump's decline in the new NBC/WSJ poll is an increase in "very conservative" Republican voters from January's sample.

    If the current poll is re-weighted to reflect the ideological composition from last month, the GOP horserace numbers are: Trump 26 percent, Cruz 25 percent, Rubio 18 percent and Kasich 13 percent — so Trump is ahead by one point, but still down from January.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/surprise-trump-falls-behind-cruz-national-nbc-wsj-poll-n520296
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    Freggles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    New thread seems to have died.

    Premature posting by Mike.

    Happens to the best of us
    Disembargoed himself, eh?
    Yup
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    Cameron has played so many things wrong on this that it is hard to be sure. But would he really have given Boris the publicity of a meeting at Downing Street today, after which Boris said he could not say until the deal had been finalised, if he thought there was the remotest chance of Boris being on the other side of the argument?

    I would be astonished. When Friday comes Boris will back Dave.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,058
    HYUFD said:

    Another possible explanation for Trump's decline in the new NBC/WSJ poll is an increase in "very conservative" Republican voters from January's sample.

    If the current poll is re-weighted to reflect the ideological composition from last month, the GOP horserace numbers are: Trump 26 percent, Cruz 25 percent, Rubio 18 percent and Kasich 13 percent — so Trump is ahead by one point, but still down from January.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/surprise-trump-falls-behind-cruz-national-nbc-wsj-poll-n520296

    Some of thew weightings used in the US polls are complete garbage.

    PPP / Quinnipiac are quite good I think.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,919
    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    Cameron has played so many things wrong on this that it is hard to be sure. But would he really have given Boris the publicity of a meeting at Downing Street today, after which Boris said he could not say until the deal had been finalised, if he thought there was the remotest chance of Boris being on the other side of the argument?

    I would be astonished. When Friday comes Boris will back Dave.

    Indeed. It almost looks like a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" deal.

    I don't think Boris wants to have to deal with the tiresome bores of Leave. He is too lazy.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    How can you possibly say that when the consequence of losing is Corbyn as LOTO? A disaster that Labour may simply not recover from.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,351
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Another possible explanation for Trump's decline in the new NBC/WSJ poll is an increase in "very conservative" Republican voters from January's sample.

    If the current poll is re-weighted to reflect the ideological composition from last month, the GOP horserace numbers are: Trump 26 percent, Cruz 25 percent, Rubio 18 percent and Kasich 13 percent — so Trump is ahead by one point, but still down from January.
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/surprise-trump-falls-behind-cruz-national-nbc-wsj-poll-n520296

    Some of thew weightings used in the US polls are complete garbage.

    PPP / Quinnipiac are quite good I think.
    Yes, looks like an outlier
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    He's my MP
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    He's my MP
    You're a very lucky person to have him as your MP.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,919
    Who knows, bad as that is right now, it could easily be worse. This EU thing is nasty.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,351
    Emerson South Carolina

    Trump 33
    Cruz 20
    Rubio 19
    Bush 9
    Kasich 9
    Carson 5
    http://www.theecps.com/
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    He's my MP
    You're a very lucky person to have him as your MP.
    He is a very good constituency MP
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    Tom Holland

    @RupertMyers Dan Hodges left Labour because they'd gone extreme. @montie seems to be leaving the Tories because they've gone all centrist.
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    Mortimer said:



    I'm actually coming around to the same way of thinking.

    If Osborne was paying attention to public perceptions he would lower small business Corp tax and keep big business tax at 20%....

    He would win an awful lot of c1s tradesmen who have incorporated (on accountant advice, I'd imagine) and yet been clobbered by his dividend tax.

    There are also a significant and increasing number who incorporate because large businesses refuse to use contrators who are not incorporated. As such if you want to continue working for clients you are forced to incorporate.
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    hunchman said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @hunchman

    Your Finchley Road corruption story is over a year old.
    I'll not hold my breath, and I'd recommend you don't either.

    There was nothing about in the mainstream media when the evidence was handed to the BBC in March of last year by Gordon Bowden, and they've sat on it since because its so explosive. If you don't consume any alternative media then you simply wouldn't have heard of it. Thank goodness for the internet and the tireless work over the past 14 years of Mr Bowden.
    Dummy... It's all a hologram.

    What an utter sad waste of space this site has become.
    Only when you post.
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    Just watched the Labour PPB. Paul Richards is being kind.
    https://twitter.com/Labourpaul/status/700053182790135814
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    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    They said that in 2010 as well.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    You should be if thousands more join him.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Pulpstar said:

    Amusing that 35% think Rubio is "too young" to be president but only 2% think that about Ted Cruz - Ted Cruz is barely 6 months older than Rubio.

    Rubio just comes across as a shorty, moody, remote, robotic Hispanic with a chip on his shoulder.

    Cruz is Grandpa Munster, a scuzzball with a terrible secret. He's not even eligible for the job. If he becomes remotely threatening to Trump, the Donald will skewer him with a court case [he has "standing" to do so, plus the moolah].

    Kasich is a lightweight, Carson is in it to sell his books, and will never be the first black president...

    Bush is toxic, because of his name - perhaps undeservedly so, but that's life.

    Trump seems unstoppable, barring illness, an assassin or some unlikely loss of interest in the game...
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2016
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/does-donald-trump-have-a-ceiling/

    “runaway trump, never goin’ back /
    right way on the outsider track /
    seems like rubio should be getting somewhere /
    somehow cruz is neither here nor there”

    Thanks Nate. You've just crucified one of the soundtracks to my childhood.

    pff
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,919

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    They said that in 2010 as well.
    If you are a Lib dem, they were right.
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    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Rising Tory star @PennyMordauntMP poised to campaign to leave EU and become the female face of Brexit; https://t.co/IUFTJVG9qK
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614

    Tom Holland

    @RupertMyers Dan Hodges left Labour because they'd gone extreme. @montie seems to be leaving the Tories because they've gone all centrist.

    Montie is, to put it politely, not always right but again you have to ask if he would be doing this now if he thought a couple of big cabinet beasts were going to spring into action on Friday for Leave. I suspect his view is that the cabinet have been lassoed in ropes of silk and are all aboard the Remain bus.

    For once, he may be right.
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    Tom Holland

    @RupertMyers Dan Hodges left Labour because they'd gone extreme. @montie seems to be leaving the Tories because they've gone all centrist.

    Montie's made himself look a bit of a chump. The problem is he's a rather predictable and clichéd character, and his behaviour was so signposted that no one wants to give him any satisfaction for having done it. I suggest he joins Corbyn's Labour; that would at least have the benefit of novelty.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    You hope,depends on new leader.

    I've always said 'what's the point of the lib dems'.
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    SeanT said:

    Go on, Boris

    Make it a proper contest.

    Boris is dangerous. As likely to blow up in Leave's face as to help it imo. I would welcome his support for Leave with extreme caution.
    But Boris defuses the Little Englander charge that Remain likes to bandy about.
    On which point I notice that (unsurprisingly for anyone who has followed her career) Gisela Gschaider Stuart is very much in favour of LEAVE. Again not a typical Little Englander that REMAIN like to portray.
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    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    It didn't work for the Lib Dems.

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    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    It didn't work for the Lib Dems.

    They didn't go near the centre ground
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    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    You hope,depends on new leader.

    I've always said 'what's the point of the lib dems'.
    And that may not be before 2019
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,732

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    Tim Montgomery's comeback seems to have generated a better response.
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    Chris_A said:

    The Tory party might be decent again once all the Euro loonies wanting to live in the past have left.

    Anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a loony?

    About as democratic as the EU that you love so much.
    Chris_A has shown many times before that he doesn't believe in all that nasty democracy stuff.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    That was the key lesson of 2015. UKIP not such a threat after all. I really can't see the Tory party forgetting that lesson quite so quickly but the EU is like LSD for some of the membership and all reason can be forgotten.
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    I wonder if the SCOTUS vacancy will concentrate GOP minds on electability (assuming they decline any Obama nominee, which I expect). This could play favourably for Rubio.

    Perhaps the candidates (on all sides) will end up having a SCOTUS-running mate as well as a VP (though in the Dem case, any such prospective candidate would likely be doomed as well).
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,919

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Did someone in the SNP tell you that?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,919
    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Did someone in the SNP tell you that?
    No, but The SDP and Slab did.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Not offering them pretty much knacker you too....
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Which party has been killed by a referendum of their own making?

    The Lib Dems died after losing the AV referendum that was their own making, but that's not why they died.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    Jonathan said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Did someone in the SNP tell you that?
    No, but The SDP and Slab did.
    SDP? I must have missed that referendum. SLAB have been in decline for a long time although I would agree that the referendum up here accelerated it.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Did someone in the SNP tell you that?
    No, but The SDP and Slab did.
    Four month campaign than a new re-unifying cabinet by the Summer will put turbo boosters under the Conservative party
  • Options

    Jonathan said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Did someone in the SNP tell you that?
    No, but The SDP and Slab did.
    Four month campaign than a new re-unifying cabinet by the Summer will put turbo boosters under the Conservative party
    This after Osborne was telling MPs on the fence they woud be ending their careers if they backed Leave??
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Ross Colquhoun @rosscolquhoun
    Latest Survation #SP16 Regional poll:

    SNP 45% (+3)
    LAB 18% (-1)
    CON 15% (-2)
    LD 6% (-2)
    GRN 9% (-)
    UKIP 6% (+1)http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/daily-record-poll-labour-still-7390532#Gy4ZtsFxR3quCrsT.97
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Ross Colquhoun @rosscolquhoun
    Latest Survation #SP16 Constituency poll:

    SNP 53% (+1)
    LAB 22% (+1)
    CON 16% (-)
    LD 6% (-1)
    OTHERS 3% (-1) pic.twitter.com/TIGiA4A2nt
  • Options

    Jonathan said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    I'll quite happily keep winning those elections the punditocracy say would be good to lose.

    I'm reminded of Woody Allen in Manhattan:

    Female Party Guest: I finally had an orgasm, and my doctor told me it was the wrong kind.

    Isaac: Did you have the wrong kind? Really? I've never had the wrong kind, ever. My worst one was right on the money.
    Good gag.

    If these divisions continue, your election winning days will be behind you.

    Referenda have a knack of killing parties.
    Did someone in the SNP tell you that?
    No, but The SDP and Slab did.
    Four month campaign than a new re-unifying cabinet by the Summer will put turbo boosters under the Conservative party
    This after Osborne was telling MPs on the fence they woud be ending their careers if they backed Leave??
    I expect lots of changes post 23rd June and even Osborne maybe moved to foreign secretary. Who knows

    Anyway may everyone have a good nights rest. Lots of politics to come over next few days and weeks. My only hope is that it is civil and each others arguments are respected. Abuse is wholly unnecessary
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    They said that in 2010 as well.
    they say that about all elections, though its never true.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Ross Colquhoun @rosscolquhoun
    Latest Survation #SP16 Constituency poll:

    SNP 53% (+1)
    LAB 22% (+1)
    CON 16% (-)
    LD 6% (-1)
    OTHERS 3% (-1) pic.twitter.com/TIGiA4A2nt

    It's quite depressing that this counts as a good poll for SLAB....
  • Options
    notme said:

    Jonathan said:

    Turns out that 2015 might have been one of those elections like 92 and 05 that it's better to lose.

    They said that in 2010 as well.
    they say that about all elections, though its never true.
    Except for 1992.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    Except in the 2015 election, of the three main parties, the Lib Dems were seen as the most centrist, with Labour seen as the second-most centrist and the Conservatives as the most extreme party.

    Yet the election results were the exact reverse of how centrist voters considered the parties to be.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    DavidL said:

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    That was the key lesson of 2015. UKIP not such a threat after all. I really can't see the Tory party forgetting that lesson quite so quickly but the EU is like LSD for some of the membership and all reason can be forgotten.
    Eh? Almost the whole of the Tory campaign was based around trying to win back UKIP defectors, by playing up the threat of the SNP.
  • Options
    I rather admire Tim Montgomerie, which may come as a surprise to some.

    He is one of the very, very few journalists who, in a single article, has profoundly changed my view on an issue.

    This was the article:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2012/02/a-conservative-case-for-gay-marriage.html
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    John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    edited February 2016
    Where is there any discussion of what will happen if there is no deal tomorrow? Or, even more interestingly, if the talks are deemed by participants to have "broken down" and as a result of the failure of the negotiations Cameron backs Brexit? With Cameron backing Brexit, I wouldn't like to have invested in "Remain".

    Just asking. Discussion of any scenario other than "Cameron comes back with a piece of paper" seems as thin on the ground as it was before the general election of any scenario other than a hung parliament.
  • Options
    John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    Is Cameron really going to be allowed to lose the Tory party as a membership party?

    Any gossip from the Carlton Club?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,351
    Danny565 said:

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    Except in the 2015 election, of the three main parties, the Lib Dems were seen as the most centrist, with Labour seen as the second-most centrist and the Conservatives as the most extreme party.

    Yet the election results were the exact reverse of how centrist voters considered the parties to be.
    Now Corbyn is comfortably the most extreme and Cameron the more centrist
  • Options
    John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    edited February 2016

    This after Osborne was telling MPs on the fence they woud be ending their careers if they backed Leave??

    What a plonker he is, if that's true. So he's going to back Remain, no matter what? Great to hear for the analysts at the French and German embassies and foreign ministries.

    Reality check: neither Cameron nor Osborne have said which side they'll back in the referendum yet. I have invested in Leave, being confident that the price of Leave will rise in the next few days and weeks, whatever happens in the vote itself.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    Except in the 2015 election, of the three main parties, the Lib Dems were seen as the most centrist, with Labour seen as the second-most centrist and the Conservatives as the most extreme party.

    Yet the election results were the exact reverse of how centrist voters considered the parties to be.
    Now Corbyn is comfortably the most extreme and Cameron the more centrist
    Indeed, but 2015 still shows how "the most centrist party ALWAYS wins" theory is idiotic.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,351
    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    You should be if thousands more join him.
    The move to the centre ground will attract many more than those that leave
    Except in the 2015 election, of the three main parties, the Lib Dems were seen as the most centrist, with Labour seen as the second-most centrist and the Conservatives as the most extreme party.

    Yet the election results were the exact reverse of how centrist voters considered the parties to be.
    Now Corbyn is comfortably the most extreme and Cameron the more centrist
    Indeed, but 2015 still shows how "the most centrist party ALWAYS wins" theory is idiotic.
    Yes although the LDs were in coalition with the Tories anyway. The more centrist party lost in 1979, 1974 and 1966 too
  • Options
    I say, I was right we'd soon lose montie... thank gawd for that. Been wrong so often he's our blanchflower
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
    Some in UKIP may privately be hoping for an overall Remain result with England and Wales voting Leave.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,058
    AndyJS said:

    Some in UKIP may privately be hoping for an overall Remain result with England and Wales voting Leave.

    David Coburn :D
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    I say, I was right we'd soon lose montie... thank gawd for that. Been wrong so often he's our blanchflower

    What's the betting on him rejoining the party in a few months time and then resigning again if his preferred leader doesn't succeed Cameron?
  • Options
    Tykejohnno

    These are astonishing figures from Scotland and dreadful figures for Labour and Tory. The SNP increase is despite a calculated smear campaign from the Record and the Daily Mail, SLAB on 18 per cent on list vote will reduce them to a rump, Tories are going backwards after hyping that they would overtake Labour and some soft publicity for the totally mediocre Davidson.

    I never thought any politician could replicate the Salmond overall majority in a proportional system victory of 2011. It looks like Sturgeon is going to do exactly that and more - whatever a man can do a women can do it better.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    He's waiting till he's won the GOP race to turn his fire on Hilary. I thought you were a Rubio-Kasich ticket man anyway ?
    Tut, tut, Pulpstar. First thinking I live in GA (TimB); then thinking TimB is a Kasich/Rubio ticket man (MTimT)

    Time for TimB to roll out his guide to British Tims living in the USA and how to tell them apart.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Fresh and serious news this evening on the Clinton email scandal.

    Remember the 22 emails that were too highly classified to be released in any form?

    We now know that one of them concerned an Afghan National on the CIA payroll. The person was named in the email. Putting an asset at risk is an absolute no-no.

    It's hard to see the FBI not recommend an indictment after this revelation - what do the other 21 emails contain?

    Plus the public corruption part of the investigation gathers pace.

    Sanders is the least of her worries.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited February 2016
    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Republican nomination, as I'm bored of EuroRef.

    I would make Trump an 80-85% chance for the nomination. He's going to win the next two states at a canter, and will win the majority of states on Super Tuesday.

    Cruz is unelectable outside the deep South and a few evangelical states. He probably won't even win Texas.

    None of the seven dwarves has made any progress. Rubio, had it not been for "that debate" might have had a chance, but not now.

    And I'd reckon he's better than 50s against Hillary. In fact, he should probably be favourite for the Presidency right now.

    Trump is beatable in the general election, as both general election polls out today showed, indeed he is losing N Carolina to Sanders
    Trump was in North Augusta SC yesterday. I used to live in Augusta GA, so I drove over for lunch with a buddy and went to it.

    I thought Trump would have crashed and burned long ago, but he's proving us all wrong.

    I left the event convinced that Trump's not a 'real' conservative. Much of what he said could be Democratic talking points - lied about WMD, relitigating Iraq etc etc - I could almost believe he's a DEM plant. He's even sent a 'cease and desist' letter to Cruz over an ad using Trump's own words to show his flips. The whole speech - as always unscripted - was a stream of invective towards his fellow Republican candidates. Hardly mentioned the DEMs at all.

    Being there is very different to watching him on TV. It changed my opinion of him completely.

    I am starting to think after yesterday that he could be a disaster for the Republicans.
    He's waiting till he's won the GOP race to turn his fire on Hilary. I thought you were a Rubio-Kasich ticket man anyway ?
    Tut, tut, Pulpstar. First thinking I live in GA (TimB); then thinking TimB is a Kasich/Rubio ticket man (MTimT)

    Time for TimB to roll out his guide to British Tims living in the USA and how to tell them apart.
    I think PB has moved homes a couple of times since then.

    I've spent a few minutes looking for it but can't find it on PB. See what you can find - would be fun to repost it.
  • Options
    scotslass said:

    I never thought any politician could replicate the Salmond overall majority in a proportional system victory of 2011. It looks like Sturgeon is going to do exactly that and more - whatever a man can do a women can do it better.

    As the old saying on Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers - 'Ginger did everything Fred did, but backwards, and in heels'.

    Joking apart there is little doubt Sturgeon is the most effective party leader in the UK today - the issue is how she keeps the Zoomers happy when 71% of them want a referendum in the next Parliament with a majority of them thinking one would be good for both the economy and Scottish business.....(and nearly half think SINDY in a few weeks would be better off...)
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    Fresh and serious news this evening on the Clinton email scandal.

    Remember the 22 emails that were too highly classified to be released in any form?

    We now know that one of them concerned an Afghan National on the CIA payroll. The person was named in the email. Putting an asset at risk is an absolute no-no.

    It's hard to see the FBI not recommend an indictment after this revelation - what do the other 21 emails contain?

    Plus the public corruption part of the investigation gathers pace.

    Sanders is the least of her worries.

    This feels a bit like "Dave shops at Morrisons" or "Dave on a horse" - for those who care (a tiny fraction ) serious - for the vast majority an irrelevance
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Fresh and serious news this evening on the Clinton email scandal.

    Remember the 22 emails that were too highly classified to be released in any form?

    We now know that one of them concerned an Afghan National on the CIA payroll. The person was named in the email. Putting an asset at risk is an absolute no-no.

    It's hard to see the FBI not recommend an indictment after this revelation - what do the other 21 emails contain?

    Plus the public corruption part of the investigation gathers pace.

    Sanders is the least of her worries.

    This feels a bit like "Dave shops at Morrisons" or "Dave on a horse" - for those who care (a tiny fraction ) serious - for the vast majority an irrelevance
    A huge FBI investigation involving 150 agents is an irrelevance? This is a use of the term irrelevance with which I am not familiar. This is potentially an existential threat to her campaign.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,042
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Fresh and serious news this evening on the Clinton email scandal.

    Remember the 22 emails that were too highly classified to be released in any form?

    We now know that one of them concerned an Afghan National on the CIA payroll. The person was named in the email. Putting an asset at risk is an absolute no-no.

    It's hard to see the FBI not recommend an indictment after this revelation - what do the other 21 emails contain?

    Plus the public corruption part of the investigation gathers pace.

    Sanders is the least of her worries.

    This feels a bit like "Dave shops at Morrisons" or "Dave on a horse" - for those who care (a tiny fraction ) serious - for the vast majority an irrelevance
    A huge FBI investigation involving 150 agents is an irrelevance? This is a use of the term irrelevance with which I am not familiar. This is potentially an existential threat to her campaign.
    It won't be an irrelevance if she gets arrested :p
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Fresh and serious news this evening on the Clinton email scandal.

    Remember the 22 emails that were too highly classified to be released in any form?

    We now know that one of them concerned an Afghan National on the CIA payroll. The person was named in the email. Putting an asset at risk is an absolute no-no.

    It's hard to see the FBI not recommend an indictment after this revelation - what do the other 21 emails contain?

    Plus the public corruption part of the investigation gathers pace.

    Sanders is the least of her worries.

    This feels a bit like "Dave shops at Morrisons" or "Dave on a horse" - for those who care (a tiny fraction ) serious - for the vast majority an irrelevance
    A huge FBI investigation involving 150 agents is an irrelevance? This is a use of the term irrelevance with which I am not familiar. This is potentially an existential threat to her campaign.
    Do voters see it that way?
This discussion has been closed.