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Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?0
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Possibly the more significant one is Bush. If he comes second or even a close third after months of derision, all that money and establishment backing is available for him. Kasich, much though I like him, maybe doesn't have the depth of organisation and wealth to carry a relative success forward.Casino_Royale said:
Ooh, glad I stuck a bung on Kasich.Speedy said:We've got a complete post debate N.H poll:
Gravis, N.H.
Trump 28 -1
Kasich 17 +4
Rubio 15 -4
Bush 14 +6
Cruz 11 -4
Christie 6 0
http://gravismarketing.com/polling-and-market-research/gravis-ivr-survey-shows-trump-leading-in-new-hampshire
If.0 -
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
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The risk/reward ratio is all risk and no reward. However bad it might get for them it will only get worse if they abandon the treaty and so introduce a further incentive for migrants to travel to Calais.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless the scales had tipped so that people were already pulled to France anyway regardless of Calais.Richard_Tyndall said:
They don't want an excuse. The treaty helps them as much as it helps us. The alternative is a massive pull factor sucking more migrants into North western France and us then closing the border. No sane French leader - and probably few insane ones - would do that.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree 100% with that. I just think it is much, much more likely to happen if we vote Leave as it will give the French a perfect excuse to revoke it.LucyJones said:If they want to revoke the treaty, they can do it whether the UK votes Remain or Leave. It is nothing to do with the EU.
As is happening. As is getting worse.
Unless you think this migrant crisis gripping Europe is going to disappear tomorrow the idea that France won't possibly see the risk/reward ratio change is just not credible to me. You obviously are a lot more optimistic than I am.
They know this and have clearly thought it through far more carefully than either yourself or Cameron.0 -
@ Moses: Give up not just the NHS but medicine. I think he took the hypocritic oath instead of the Hippocratic.0
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Junior Doctors are not in Private Practice.watford30 said:
Patient safety? Or loads of money? Hmm.Moses_ said:Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?
And try turning up without an appointment at BUPA during a weekend with a child with a rash and see how far you get!0 -
Which is why the Mayor of Calais has as was just pointed out suggested the agreement would end.Richard_Tyndall said:
The risk/reward ratio is all risk and no reward. However bad it might get for them it will only get worse if they abandon the treaty and so introduce a further incentive for migrants to travel to Calais.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless the scales had tipped so that people were already pulled to France anyway regardless of Calais.Richard_Tyndall said:
They don't want an excuse. The treaty helps them as much as it helps us. The alternative is a massive pull factor sucking more migrants into North western France and us then closing the border. No sane French leader - and probably few insane ones - would do that.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree 100% with that. I just think it is much, much more likely to happen if we vote Leave as it will give the French a perfect excuse to revoke it.LucyJones said:If they want to revoke the treaty, they can do it whether the UK votes Remain or Leave. It is nothing to do with the EU.
As is happening. As is getting worse.
Unless you think this migrant crisis gripping Europe is going to disappear tomorrow the idea that France won't possibly see the risk/reward ratio change is just not credible to me. You obviously are a lot more optimistic than I am.
They know this and have clearly thought it through far more carefully than either yourself or Cameron.
But the French have said there's no chance haven't they. I suppose the Mayor of Calais is Syrian and not French.0 -
From that article, here is our team of negotiators. Remember their names for when they all get put forward for gongs :SeanT said:Talking of the "deal"
"It is understood that Downing Street has been taken aback by the furious reception given to the deal which – while always limited – they had deemed creditable for Mr Cameron’s ‘wins’ on child benefits, the end of ‘ever closer union’ and the advent of a ‘red card’ system to block EU laws."
Explains the air of Desperation from REMAIN, today.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12147018/David-Cameron-scrambles-to-beef-up-puny-EU-deal.html
Team UK
Ivan Rogers: British ambassador to the EU and chief negotiator. Former Treasury civil servant who worked in Tony Blair’s private office for Tony Blair? FFS....
Tom Scholar: Cameron's chief Europe adviser. Another ex-Treasury civil servant, former Chief of Staff to Gordon Brown FOR GORDON BROWN??? FFS.....
Ed Llewellyn: Cameron's loyal chief of staff accompanies him around the world So he's going to admit to his bezzy mate that he's got a deal that is the square root of sod all, isn't he?
Daniel Korski: Downing Street adviser, acts as low-level envoy to EU capitals Well results to date would suggest that we need a high-level envoy, accompanied by a fucking nasty attack dog or two on long leashes....
Mats Persson: Swedish basketball ace, ex-director of Open Europe and Downing Street adviser tasked with keeping MEPs sweet Swedish basketball ace? Let that hang in the air a moment, shall we? And is anybody tasked with keeping MPs sweet? The media? Or how about the fucking voters Prime Minister?0 -
Actually I shall be at work for two weekends this month in the NHS, and none in Private Practice!MTimT said:@ Moses: Give up not just the NHS but medicine. I think he took the hypocritic oath instead of the Hippocratic.
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And as always you have completely misread the whole situation. The three quotes you use come from people who simply don't matter when it comes to deciding whther or not the treaty stays in place.Richard_Nabavi said:I think the Leave side are misunderstanding the politics of the Calais business. See here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35519210
and notice three key quotes:
1. The deputy Mayor of Calais, Philippe Mignonet, bolstered his case by telling the BBC: "We will have to cancel these agreements, because England won't be in Europe anymore. So that will really be a foreign country for us."
Compare that with:
2. But the UK's former chief inspector of borders and immigration, John Vine, told the BBC's World at One he didn't think the UK's exit from the EU would lead to an immediate collapse in cross border arrangements with France.
"I don't necessarily think this would collapse overnight. If it didn't exist there would still be border controls. We would have to rely on the Belgians and the French," he said.
and:
3. Leave.EU co-founder, Arron Banks said: "The agreement we have to process migrants in Calais is with France, not the EU. There is no reason for this to change on Leaving the EU.
What this is eating away at is two planks of the Leave campaign: (a) eliding the EU with the migrant crisis, and (b) the Salmond-style argument that we can get everything we want with the other side having no say.
Of course, Cameron's argument is bogus, although as I said this morning it's hilarious to see the Leave side complaining about that, since one of their principal political points is the bogus argument that leaving the EU has got anything much to do with how the migrant crisis affects us. But leaving aside the reality, the politics on migration has been one-sided to date, on the Leave side. That's why Farage kept popping up last year talking about Calais (PBers weren't fooled by that, of course, were you?). Geese and ganders come to mind...
Only two parties can end the treaty - the French and British governments. Neither will because they know that to do so would lead to the closure of the Channel Tunnel (assuming the tunnel refused to take responsibility for immigration checks as airlines do). This would of course make matters far worse for the French in having to deal with the migrants and would make it worse for the British in having to find alternative export routes.
In or out of the EU this is not something that is going to be done.0 -
Why don't the migrants in the jungle just go to Germany?0
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On this issue I wish Cameron well, but I think he should take a few days off as he does seem genuinely rattled and making unforced errors. I'm genuinely perplexed by this story:DavidL said:
Just an astonishing misjudgement from a politician who has got most things right for 10 years. I am genuinely baffled as to how he got himself in this position.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/08/david-cameron-eu-membership-gives-uk-information-on-terrorists
Whether we're in the EU or not, I'm quite sure we'll continue to swap info on terrorists with Italy and other EU countries. Why wouldn't we? The article implies that he meant that without the European Arres tWarrant it'd get harder - that is a fairish point, but not what he said. Perhaps he meant to say it and got confused? Or do others understand it better?0 -
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
Edit: For an example, see http://uniurgentcare.com/urgent-care-services/0 -
On topic. Ive always been a Hillary opponent when it comes to betting. Was in 2008 and been looking an opportunity to go against her in the betting markets this time round. In the last few weeks that opportunity has appeared. Given her very short odds in recent past, there is a some strong upside short term at least, possibly long term.
In 2008 though I did something against all advice of nearly everyone on this forum at the time, and back then it had many more betting types. I backed Clinton to win in New Hampshire. Anyone who remembers the incredible odds that were available on the markets, admittedly in small amounts, will also remember how committing tens of quid produced a massive profit margin.
Don't think lightning will strike twice though.
Off topic: Looks like the protestors are out on the streets of Hong Kong again. Trouble overnight and theres a minor (as in small scale) stand off going on in the morning daylight but the cops are moving in now.0 -
Err, no. I might have misread things, but not for the reason you give. Nowhere did I say this had anything to do we reality - in fact I clearly said it didn't. My post was about the politics.Richard_Tyndall said:And as always you have completely misread the whole situation. The three quotes you use come from people who simply don't matter when it comes to deciding whther or not the treaty stays in place.
Only two parties can end the treaty - the French and British governments. Neither will because they know that to do so would lead to the closure of the Channel Tunnel (assuming the tunnel refused to take responsibility for immigration checks as airlines do). This would of course make matters far worse for the French in having to deal with the migrants and would make it worse for the British in having to find alternative export routes.
In or out of the EU this is not something that is going to be done.0 -
Try turning up at an NHS hospital at the weekend and see how long you have to wait. Aeons. Because daft shift rotas mean that there aren't enough whiny doctors on duty, and the equipment the taxpayer has coughed up for is lying idle.foxinsoxuk said:
Junior Doctors are not in Private Practice.watford30 said:
Patient safety? Or loads of money? Hmm.Moses_ said:Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?
And try turning up without an appointment at BUPA during a weekend with a child with a rash and see how far you get!
Last time I took a sick child to hospital in France on a Saturday, I was stunned by the quality and availability of treatment. First world, not third world. Envie du monde entier.0 -
Bill Clinton is only 69, he sounds more like he is 90 in the vid tbh.
Also the Goldman Sachs attack was... odd - has Bernie ever took money from Goldman Sachs ? Would GS even want to pay Bernie given he was percieved to be such a longshot initially for the pres.0 -
The swapping info on terrorists argument gets dragged up at every possible occasion. Most recently it was being used (rightly or wrongly I don't know) as the reason we should continue sucking up to Saudi Arabia.NickPalmer said:
On this issue I wish Cameron well, but I think he should take a few days off as he does seem genuinely rattled and making unforced errors. I'm genuinely perplexed by this story:DavidL said:
Just an astonishing misjudgement from a politician who has got most things right for 10 years. I am genuinely baffled as to how he got himself in this position.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/08/david-cameron-eu-membership-gives-uk-information-on-terrorists
Whether we're in the EU or not, I'm quite sure we'll continue to swap info on terrorists with Italy and other EU countries. Why wouldn't we? The article implies that he meant that without the European Arres tWarrant it'd get harder - that is a fairish point, but not what he said. Perhaps he meant to say it and got confused? Or do others understand it better?
If they are not careful they are going to wear that argument out.0 -
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.MTimT said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.0 -
But you are wrong on that as well. It hasn't eaten away at the Leave arguments at all. What it has done is allowed Cameron's opponents to paint him as desperate and willing to say anything to try and win. The Telegraph front page and the Guardian commentary are both examples of how that has badly backfired.Richard_Nabavi said:
Err, no. I might have misread things, but not for the reason you give. Nowhere did I say this had anything to do we reality - in fact I clearly said it didn't. My post was about the politics.Richard_Tyndall said:And as always you have completely misread the whole situation. The three quotes you use come from people who simply don't matter when it comes to deciding whther or not the treaty stays in place.
Only two parties can end the treaty - the French and British governments. Neither will because they know that to do so would lead to the closure of the Channel Tunnel (assuming the tunnel refused to take responsibility for immigration checks as airlines do). This would of course make matters far worse for the French in having to deal with the migrants and would make it worse for the British in having to find alternative export routes.
In or out of the EU this is not something that is going to be done.0 -
I have some big Bloomberg news, but I'm on my mobile, so you won't be getting it until tomorrow0
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Indeed, surely information on terrorists comes from many sources (NATO, CanUKUS, Interpol, bilateral intell sharing, etc...), none of which are the EU.NickPalmer said:
On this issue I wish Cameron well, but I think he should take a few days off as he does seem genuinely rattled and making unforced errors. I'm genuinely perplexed by this story:DavidL said:
Just an astonishing misjudgement from a politician who has got most things right for 10 years. I am genuinely baffled as to how he got himself in this position.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/08/david-cameron-eu-membership-gives-uk-information-on-terrorists
Whether we're in the EU or not, I'm quite sure we'll continue to swap info on terrorists with Italy and other EU countries. Why wouldn't we? The article implies that he meant that without the European Arres tWarrant it'd get harder - that is a fairish point, but not what he said. Perhaps he meant to say it and got confused? Or do others understand it better?0 -
Huzzah for George Osborne's brilliance
Goldman Sachs sees near-zero risk of UK recession despite market tantrum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12147100/Goldman-Sachs-sees-near-zero-risk-of-UK-recession-despite-market-tantrum.html0 -
I will do but tomorrow. Was up working at 5:30 am and another early start tomorrow.Moses_ said:Ms Cycle.
You have mentioned a few times your guide to international cock ups, could you repost that I seem to have missed it and I am sure I can put it to good use . Thanks.
Those crooks don't catch themselves, you know.........0 -
Not yet.Richard_Tyndall said:But you are wrong on that as well. It hasn't eaten away at the Leave arguments at all.
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Back or Lay?rcs1000 said:I have some big Bloomberg news, but I'm on my mobile, so you won't be getting it until tomorrow
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Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.0 -
To be fair we had an issue so he saw us Saturday morning. Thing was he had others he was also seeing but respect where it's due he was there. Gave us the reassurance we needed and my young lady was calmed. .In the week my surgery has an online booking system and a triage. Works great. It's quite busy but doubt it's anywhere near an inner city surgery.watford30 said:
Patient safety? Or loads of money? Hmm.Moses_ said:Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?
It can be done it's just accepting a change in the way it works. The expensive machines were operating as well.but the main argument as the machines were lying idle at weekends costing a fortune and backlogs.
There are also walk in clinics now. My daughter uses one in Birmingham as she is a student there. It's not forgotten that someone is working but it's a rotation and you take your turn on the weekends Just like the rest of us do that work in professions that actually do not stop at 5pm and weekends. It's just that we are private companies and not ring fenced public entities with billions spent on them.
I don't bitch and whine because I knew it was like this. I started in 1975 and I am still here now. If I didn't accept it I would have changed profession.0 -
the former @ 800/1 then the latter @ 50/1Richard_Nabavi said:
Back or Lay?rcs1000 said:I have some big Bloomberg news, but I'm on my mobile, so you won't be getting it until tomorrow
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If you take the child to an NHS hospital then you will be seen, at the BUPA hospital you would pretty certainly be turned away.watford30 said:
Try turning up at an NHS hospital at the weekend and see how long you have to wait. Aeons. Because daft shift rotas mean that there aren't enough whiny doctors on duty, and the equipment the taxpayer has coughed up for is lying idle.foxinsoxuk said:
Junior Doctors are not in Private Practice.watford30 said:
Patient safety? Or loads of money? Hmm.Moses_ said:Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?
And try turning up without an appointment at BUPA during a weekend with a child with a rash and see how far you get!
Last time I took a sick child to hospital in France on a Saturday, I was stunned by the quality and availability of treatment. First world, not third world. Envie du monde entier.
And the "First world" health care of the French system did not cope well with the 2003 heatwave. Wards were closed and doctors headed off on their holidays. The French love Le Weekend:
http://www.economist.com/node/20555120 -
Very good! But mine was a forward-looking question..Pong said:
the former @ 800/1 then the latter @ 50/1Richard_Nabavi said:
Back or Lay?rcs1000 said:I have some big Bloomberg news, but I'm on my mobile, so you won't be getting it until tomorrow
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Right so you admit (at last) that there are French people, even French politicians who do want this Treaty to end if we leave the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:And as always you have completely misread the whole situation. The three quotes you use come from people who simply don't matter when it comes to deciding whther or not the treaty stays in place.
Only two parties can end the treaty - the French and British governments. Neither will because they know that to do so would lead to the closure of the Channel Tunnel (assuming the tunnel refused to take responsibility for immigration checks as airlines do). This would of course make matters far worse for the French in having to deal with the migrants and would make it worse for the British in having to find alternative export routes.
In or out of the EU this is not something that is going to be done.
You are making an almighty leap of faith to assume that any future French government would assume that any future British government would automatically close the Chunnel. Would a Cameron majority government do so? Probably but not definitely.
Would a Cameron/Clegg coalition government have done so? Maybe but probably not.
Would a Labour government as they exist today do so? No! We have here Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition openly calling for those in Calais to be simply allowed into the country anyway even without any French provocation. There are plenty of potential leaders for this country who would sooner accept the migrants than close the Tunnel.
You are putting an almighty amount of faith into the French government not changing and the British government not changing. Which is funny as normally you talk not just about the status quo but what could be coming but here apparently despite many French politicians openly calling for an end to these border controls within France that is impossible. Wow, just wow.0 -
I rather like St Helena. No possibility of escape and the historical allusions rather appeal.foxinsoxuk said:
The practical difficulty is deportation, and not just because of the repetitive appeals. Deporting people back to Syria, Eritrea or Afghanistan is not easy. Indeed even deportation to Morocco is difficult.Cyclefree said:
Secure detention is quite different from a shanty town in the middle of Kent.Philip_Thompson said:
It doesn't matter one jot if France is a safe country or not, once on British soil they can claim asylum from our government and then that is that.Cyclefree said:
Save that they are not refugees are they? France is a safe country. We are not talking about camps of Huguenots, are we?Philip_Thompson said:
No the PM has said that if we didn't have the border at Calais then the French would simply waive them onto our soil. Once a refugee is on our soil they're nigh on impossible to remove as the rest of Europe have found out so we would end up with camps in our country rather than France.SeanT said:Scott_P said:Has Liam Fox really been all over the news today claiming "there is no link between brexit and borders"?
is that really the outers message of the day?
All of which is true. The fact you find it an inconvenient truth doesn't mean it shouldn't be said.
I don't understand
Furthermore since (unlike with air travel) there is no penalty for SCNF if an illegal immigrant travels to the UK from France this was a major problem just over a decade ago and easily could be again.
If they get kept in secure detention like you proposed then that is EXACTLY what Cameron said. So Cameron is a liar because what Cameron said is true? Go figure.
My understanding is that if a person does not claim asylum in the first safe country he reaches, any other state they travel to is not obliged to consider their asylum claim. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
At any event, I think the government should simply make this the legal position. We will not entertain any asylum claims from anyone who has travelled here from Europe. Or from any other safe countries. If they want to emigrate here legally, they can get in the queue and make their case like anyone else.
My preferred plan is to offshore detention. Sierra Leone would be a good bet. If detainees do escape then it is not too much of a problem, as they would have to start again. It would provide employment in SL and they owe us a few favours!
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I remember well Pter Cech, the Chelski goalie, when he ended up with a severe head injury. Ambromovich's billions, and he ended up on the same NHS brain injury unit as my very good friend at Oxford.
Sarah Woolsaton was on Newsnight the other week talking about back in the day when she worked through weekends. Well back in the day, there were not quite the complex needs with the range of therapies and decision making this required.
The NHS is World Class at it's best. Woolsaton comparisons are pathetic. Those Doctors working on main wards out of hours are heroic, and deserve nothing but praise.
The NHS drives through healthcare efficiencies that other healthcare systems can only dream about. That is solely because of the commitment of our doctors, nurses and health care staff who continue to work above and beyond their contracts.foxinsoxuk said:
Junior Doctors are not in Private Practice.watford30 said:
Patient safety? Or loads of money? Hmm.Moses_ said:Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?
And try turning up without an appointment at BUPA during a weekend with a child with a rash and see how far you get!0 -
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.0 -
Thanks .... Indeed good on you*Cyclefree said:
I will do but tomorrow. Was up working at 5:30 am and another early start tomorrow.Moses_ said:Ms Cycle.
You have mentioned a few times your guide to international cock ups, could you repost that I seem to have missed it and I am sure I can put it to good use . Thanks.
Those crooks don't catch themselves, you know.........
* Americas dumbest criminals
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None around here, and not at the weekend.Chris_A said:
Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
Defending GPs not opening weekends is particuarly silly. It would make huge sense for all surgeries to open weekends; in fact, it would make more sense for most GP surgeries to open all days except Mondays, like hairdressers.0 -
Wow people have been stuck in traffic for 10 hours because the Dartford crossing has been closed... Imagine that, fuck me!0
-
My GPs' surgery is open at the weekend. You Tories are all for the free market, if you don't like what your GP is offering find another one.Mortimer said:
None around here, and not at the weekend.Chris_A said:
Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
Defending GPs not opening weekends is particuarly silly. It would make huge sense for all surgeries to open weekends; in fact, it would make more sense for most GP surgeries to open all days except Mondays, like hairdressers.0 -
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.0 -
No, there are of course French people who want the treaty to end whether or not we leave the EU. In or out makes no difference at all. EU membership gives us absolutely no protection against the treaty being ended or not.Philip_Thompson said:
Right so you admit (at last) that there are French people, even French politicians who do want this Treaty to end if we leave the EU.
You are making an almighty leap of faith to assume that any future French government would assume that any future British government would automatically close the Chunnel. Would a Cameron majority government do so? Probably but not definitely.
Would a Cameron/Clegg coalition government have done so? Maybe but probably not.
Would a Labour government as they exist today do so? No! We have here Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition openly calling for those in Calais to be simply allowed into the country anyway even without any French provocation. There are plenty of potential leaders for this country who would sooner accept the migrants than close the Tunnel.
You are putting an almighty amount of faith into the French government not changing and the British government not changing. Which is funny as normally you talk not just about the status quo but what could be coming but here apparently despite many French politicians openly calling for an end to these border controls within France that is impossible. Wow, just wow.
So Cameron's claim that leaving the EU would result in the border moving back to Kent is absolutely false and your continued attempts to support it in the face of all the evidence is just laughable.
In case you missed it we have already shut the Chunnel when the migration pressures got too high. Why on earth would you think that any government would not do exactly the same again. You seem to think they would choose to ignore British law and put the interests of the Chunnel operators ahead of that of the British and of course ahead of their own survival as a Government.
You may not like it (and I certainly don't) but the attitude to migration has changed dramatically over the last few years. No Government could survive what you are suggesting and they know it. They would follow the law and prosecute those enabling illegal migration because the alternative would be to interfere with the law against a background of overwhelming opposition from the public.
These fantasies of Cameron's have been undermined at every turn, not least by the French and in case you missed it no one but fanatical and desperate Europhiles are even pretending he is right.0 -
You are missing the point. Deliberately, I suspect. You can get any medicine you want when you want at these medical centers - at a time convenient to you not the clinic.Chris_A said:What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Medicine is a service industry. It needs to organize like one. For all its faults and expense, US medical providers get this.0 -
Not when everyone is telling Cameron he is talking garbage.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not yet.Richard_Tyndall said:But you are wrong on that as well. It hasn't eaten away at the Leave arguments at all.
0 -
Lucky you. Mine don't - and nor to the competition.Chris_A said:
My GPs' surgery is open at the weekend. You Tories are all for the free market, if you don't like what your GP is offering find another one.Mortimer said:
None around here, and not at the weekend.Chris_A said:
Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:
So, Hunt visiting/not visiting a hospital at the weekend like everyone else is good/bad depending on whether he has his children with him or not. Imagine the shrieking if he took them for private treatment.Chris_A said:
Yes he was wrong because his department spends a great deal of money telling the "ordinary" people they should only visit A&E for “life-threatening emergencies” including severe blood loss, unconsciousness and breathing difficulties. It's a non-efficient waste of resources. It's not as if he - being self employed - can't find the time to visit the GP at another time. It's do as I say not as I do with him.Philip_Thompson said:
So he was honest about a real problem and doing what countless people up and down the country are doing, saying he wants to fix the problem he inherited so he doesn't need to do what he did ... but he is in the wrong.
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
Defending GPs not opening weekends is particuarly silly. It would make huge sense for all surgeries to open weekends; in fact, it would make more sense for most GP surgeries to open all days except Mondays, like hairdressers.
The presence of a false market with hugely self interested bureaucracy actually undermines the provision.
Go and read Adam Smith.0 -
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Chris_A said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
A tetanus jab probably does cost the equivalent of $70, just not at the point of delivery.
Healthcare in the UK isn't 'free'. Unless I'm wrong, none of the staff work for nothing, drug manufacturers don't give their products away, and hospitals aren't gifts from construction companies.
Most of us pay for it, but up front rather than on the presentation of a bill.0 -
While simultaneously having such inefficiencies as multimillion pound hospitals and equipment that lie partially idle in the evenings, Saturday's and Sundays.tyson said:I remember well Pter Cech, the Chelski goalie, when he ended up with a severe head injury. Ambromovich's billions, and he ended up on the same NHS brain injury unit as my very good friend at Oxford.
Sarah Woolsaton was on Newsnight the other week talking about back in the day when she worked through weekends. Well back in the day, there were not quite the complex needs with the range of therapies and decision making this required.
The NHS is World Class at it's best. Woolsaton comparisons are pathetic. Those Doctors working on main wards out of hours are heroic, and deserve nothing but praise.
The NHS drives through healthcare efficiencies that other healthcare systems can only dream about. That is solely because of the commitment of our doctors, nurses and health care staff who continue to work above and beyond their contracts.foxinsoxuk said:
Junior Doctors are not in Private Practice.watford30 said:
Patient safety? Or loads of money? Hmm.Moses_ said:Just wondering why NHS doctors work at the local NHS hospital then pop up at the local private hospital and BUPA clinics when it suits them including weekends?
And try turning up without an appointment at BUPA during a weekend with a child with a rash and see how far you get!0 -
I would have thought so too, but the only poll I've seen showed him taking a modest vote from both sides. If he actually ran it might be very different, of course.Pulpstar said:Who does Bloomberg help or hinder if he runs ?
I don't think he wins, but perhaps he murders democrats in big blue states..
That's my initial impression anyway - can see him doing well in New York, California, the NE seaboard.
Personally I think Sanders will win tomorrow but fall short nationally, and I don't believe Bloomberg will run against Clinton.0 -
You can do the same at A&E here - any time, day or night, weekday or weekend. No appointment needed.MTimT said:
You are missing the point. Deliberately, I suspect. You can get any medicine you want when you want at these medical centers - at a time convenient to you not the clinic.Chris_A said:What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Medicine is a service industry. It needs to organize like one. For all its faults and expense, US medical providers get this.
"You can get any medicine you want when you want". That is surely one of the dumbest things ever posted on here and sums up in one sentence all that is wrong with the US medical system.
One difference though, here you get any medicine you NEED.0 -
Here is the most bizarre thing of all.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.
In all other respects the lefties want those with money to pay their way in fact over their way "because they can afford it". Now that may well be true but where it all falls down with them is education and health care. Woe betide if you spend any of your hard earned on that because you should conform to what they consider the norm the public service.
On the other hand if people are willing to pay then this then it removes them from the central system so more cash is available for those that are left. Quite often in education the company you work for pays for this as part of the package and certainly hundreds of thousands if not millions have provided health care via the companies and use it. With that in mind I have often thought that this would remove people from one system opening up opportunities for others to use it.
Yes it's not an emergency service and not designed for that and as we all pay taxes then that's free for all. It would though alleviate demand on a central service that Would otherwise be in high demand and others could be treated quicker. It's a win win but why don't the lefties see it this way?0 -
Good luck when the paramedics (sorry Mr Hunt, "ambulance drivers") scrape you off the road and you manage to tell them that you want to be taken to a BUPA ITU. I hope you make it.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.0 -
I think that there are potential British governments that would not shut the Chunnel because there are potential PM's who have said to effect that they would not.Richard_Tyndall said:No, there are of course French people who want the treaty to end whether or not we leave the EU. In or out makes no difference at all. EU membership gives us absolutely no protection against the treaty being ended or not.
So Cameron's claim that leaving the EU would result in the border moving back to Kent is absolutely false and your continued attempts to support it in the face of all the evidence is just laughable.
In case you missed it we have already shut the Chunnel when the migration pressures got too high. Why on earth would you think that any government would not do exactly the same again. You seem to think they would choose to ignore British law and put the interests of the Chunnel operators ahead of that of the British and of course ahead of their own survival as a Government.
You may not like it (and I certainly don't) but the attitude to migration has changed dramatically over the last few years. No Government could survive what you are suggesting and they know it. They would follow the law and prosecute those enabling illegal migration because the alternative would be to interfere with the law against a background of overwhelming opposition from the public.
These fantasies of Cameron's have been undermined at every turn, not least by the French and in case you missed it no one but fanatical and desperate Europhiles are even pretending he is right.
The Labour opposition are proposing that the border be opened without the French even asking. Even if you think Corbyn will never be PM (I do) there are plenty more in-between the "let everyone in" that Corbyn supports and "shut down the Chunnel" that you think every leader would.
This complacency is precisely what led to the Falklands War as the Argentines thought they could get away with it and we wouldn't react, but they didn't count on Thatcher. Under many other potential PM's they would have got away with it too as could the French think they could get away with it.0 -
All perfectly valid and logical points.Moses_ said:
Here is the most bizarre thing of all.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.
In all other respects the lefties want those with money to pay their way in fact over their way "because they can afford it". Now that may well be true but where it all falls down with them is education and health care. Woe betide if you spend any of your hard earned on that because you should conform to what they consider the norm the public service.
On the other hand if people are willing to pay then this then it removes them from the central system so more cash is available for those that are left. Quite often in education the company you work for pays for this as part of the package and certainly hundreds of thousands if not millions have provided health care via the companies and use it. With that in mind I have often thought that this would remove people from one system opening up opportunities for others to use it.
Yes it's not an emergency service and not designed for that and as we all pay taxes then that's free for all. It would though alleviate demand on a central service that Would otherwise be in high demand and others could be treated quicker. It's a win win but why don't the lefties see it this way?
The explanation is surely that the left cares more about providers than patients. Unions pay into parties, patients are mere voters.0 -
All areas are covered by GP OOH providers at weekends. There is not the collective will to keep all practices open during the weekends. The PMs challenge fund that was set up to provide this has had half the trial practices stop providing the service because there was not the patient numbers to keep up the appointments at the weekend - this is the free market working at it's best. There is generally ok take up of Saturday morning appointments.Mortimer said:
Lucky you. Mine don't - and nor to the competition.Chris_A said:
My GPs' surgery is open at the weekend. You Tories are all for the free market, if you don't like what your GP is offering find another one.Mortimer said:
None around here, and not at the weekend.Chris_A said:
Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
Abusing the system?Chris_A said:
It's entirely bad whether he had children with him or not. He's abusing the system and knows it it - that makes it worse. The public know a wrong 'un when they see one and Hunt was rumbled ages ago.watford30 said:Chris_A said:Philip_Thompson said:
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
The system is DREADFUL. Wake up.
The only way for me obtain a prescription at a weekend is to got to A&E. How stupid.
Defending GPs not opening weekends is particuarly silly. It would make huge sense for all surgeries to open weekends; in fact, it would make more sense for most GP surgeries to open all days except Mondays, like hairdressers.
The presence of a false market with hugely self interested bureaucracy actually undermines the provision.
Go and read Adam Smith.
However the other way to look at it is that if there are routine opening hours on these days rather than emergency cover, you need 40% more doctors, well lets say 35% if you take out the OOH covering doctors. Since there aren't enough GPs to fill the current places then I genuinely do not know where these posts will be staffed - the answer is that the appointments will have to come from the rest of the week.
Finally note that the main users of the service are retired or sub 5 year olds. These users do not need the weekend access and can use the service any time. In short spreading appointments over 7 days loses far more in continuity of care than it does gain in appointment access.
If you are unwell at the weekend then you see OOH. If you need a repeat script at the weekend you really should have planned better.0 -
That's just wrong and you know it . He pays his taxes so he is entitled to the same emergency response as anyone else. Your argument is totally false and pre mediated to be so. I called for an ambulance for my daughter and got one.... Within 10 minutes and a paramedic in a car. We were awash with these great people. My doctor called as well what and how it was going.Chris_A said:
Good luck when the paramedics (sorry Mr Hunt, "ambulance drivers") scrape you off the road and you manage to tell them that you want to be taken to a BUPA ITU. I hope you make it.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.
Everyone pays their taxes into the system and as such has access. It's the afterwards bit that would alleviate the strain on the NHS.. When companies are willing to chuck money at it why why are you complaining ...why are junior doctors complaining ??
Don't get it. Never have never will.0 -
Yes he's entitled to the same superior service. That's the point; the NHS offering is superior to the private one. That is not the case with schools but Hunt is determined to make it so,Moses_ said:
That's just wrong and you know it . He pays his taxes so he is entitled to the same emergency response as anyone else. Your argument is totally false and pre mediated to be so. I called for an ambulance for my daughter and got one.... Within 10 minutes and a paramedic in a car. We were awash with these great people. My doctor called as well what and how it was going.Chris_A said:
Good luck when the paramedics (sorry Mr Hunt, "ambulance drivers") scrape you off the road and you manage to tell them that you want to be taken to a BUPA ITU. I hope you make it.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.
Everyone pays their taxes into the system and as such has access. It's the afterwards bit that would alleviate the strain on the NHS.. When companies are willing to chuck money at it why why are you complaining ...why are junior doctors complaining ??
Don't get it. Never have never will.0 -
The NHS is superior at times and not at other times. Hardly surprising given it has a budget of over £116 billion this year.Chris_A said:
Yes he's entitled to the same superior service. That's the point; the NHS offering is superior to the private one. That is not the case with schools but Hunt is determined to make it so,Moses_ said:
That's just wrong and you know it . He pays his taxes so he is entitled to the same emergency response as anyone else. Your argument is totally false and pre mediated to be so. I called for an ambulance for my daughter and got one.... Within 10 minutes and a paramedic in a car. We were awash with these great people. My doctor called as well what and how it was going.Chris_A said:
Good luck when the paramedics (sorry Mr Hunt, "ambulance drivers") scrape you off the road and you manage to tell them that you want to be taken to a BUPA ITU. I hope you make it.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
Here a new industry of emergency clinics - open 24/7 has sprung up. You can get a tetanus jab because a dog bit you at any time of the day - walk-in with no appointment - for a very reasonable sum. I think I paid in the order of $70-80 bucks total, including the cost of the vaccine. Antibiotics were bought separately.
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.
Everyone pays their taxes into the system and as such has access. It's the afterwards bit that would alleviate the strain on the NHS.. When companies are willing to chuck money at it why why are you complaining ...why are junior doctors complaining ??
Don't get it. Never have never will.0 -
OOH provision is 111.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
All areas are covered by GP OOH providers at weekends. There is not the collective will to keep all practices open during the weekends. The PMs challenge fund that was set up to provide this has had half the trial practices stop providing the service because there was not the patient numbers to keep up the appointments at the weekend - this is the free market working at it's best. There is generally ok take up of Saturday morning appointments.Mortimer said:
Lucky you. Mine don't - and nor to the competition.Chris_A said:
My GPs' surgery is open at the weekend. You Tories are all for the free market, if you don't like what your GP is offering find another one.Mortimer said:
None around here, and not at the weekend.Chris_A said:
Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
...Chris_A said:
...watford30 said:Chris_A said:Philip_Thompson said:
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
Defending GPs not opening weekends is particuarly silly. It would make huge sense for all surgeries to open weekends; in fact, it would make more sense for most GP surgeries to open all days except Mondays, like hairdressers.
The presence of a false market with hugely self interested bureaucracy actually undermines the provision.
Go and read Adam Smith.
However the other way to look at it is that if there are routine opening hours on these days rather than emergency cover, you need 40% more doctors, well lets say 35% if you take out the OOH covering doctors. Since there aren't enough GPs to fill the current places then I genuinely do not know where these posts will be staffed - the answer is that the appointments will have to come from the rest of the week.
Finally note that the main users of the service are retired or sub 5 year olds. These users do not need the weekend access and can use the service any time. In short spreading appointments over 7 days loses far more in continuity of care than it does gain in appointment access.
If you are unwell at the weekend then you see OOH. If you need a repeat script at the weekend you really should have planned better.
And I was unable to see a Doctor (excepting 20 miles away) or get a prescription. Even speaking to a doctor the same day was only achieved after constant complaining.
Why people don't see that this is a problem baffles me.0 -
NHS service is only superior in certain respects.Chris_A said:
Yes he's entitled to the same superior service. That's the point; the NHS offering is superior to the private one. That is not the case with schools but Hunt is determined to make it so,Moses_ said:
That's just wrong and you know it . He pays his taxes so he is entitled to the same emergency response as anyone else. Your argument is totally false and pre mediated to be so. I called for an ambulance for my daughter and got one.... Within 10 minutes and a paramedic in a car. We were awash with these great people. My doctor called as well what and how it was going.Chris_A said:
Good luck when the paramedics (sorry Mr Hunt, "ambulance drivers") scrape you off the road and you manage to tell them that you want to be taken to a BUPA ITU. I hope you make it.Mortimer said:
If I were offered a better service that required paying, I would use it and happily pay.Chris_A said:
...Mortimer said:
I assume this will shortly happen in the greater UK - I imagine it is already available in London.Mortimer said:
...
Looks like my healthcare insurance may need to be upgraded given that the NHS is failing thanks to poor provision of service by General Practice combined with an ageing population.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Just like I have BUPA insurance for expediting and provisioning more comfortable care in the worst eventualities.
NHS is fooling itself if it thinks that junior docs striking over pay and GPs not opening at the weekends won't lead to a boom in the healthcare market economy.
Everyone pays their taxes into the system and as such has access. It's the afterwards bit that would alleviate the strain on the NHS.. When companies are willing to chuck money at it why why are you complaining ...why are junior doctors complaining ??
Don't get it. Never have never will.
In many, many, many others it is woefully inferior.
So far in my life (and I'm only 29) I've paid for private physio and psycho-therapy because the NHS offering was either woeful or would have taken months to materialise (in the case of the latter it took ages to materialise and then was woeful). On the back of a particularly poor weekend NHS experience, where I was given a drug I had told 3 separate people I was allergic to, I took out BUPA insurance
The only logical reasoning for the NHS and the Left not cheering the better off paying for their own care is cold, hard, fear that it will show up the NHS and its cheerleaders.0 -
True, on the whole though I think its pretty good. Of course it does vary - years back I had a pilonidal sinus, and quite honestly the first surgeon made a hash of my back but the second one was excellent and then I recieved a course of laser treatment which has sorted it for at least 13 or so years hence.Philip_Thompson said:
The NHS is superior at times and not at other times. Hardly surprising given it has a budget of over £116 billion this year.
I think Hunt's reforms are neccesary though, it's a good old fashioned pay dispute - getting the system working at weekends better is just plain more efficient. The cash the Gov't is putting into the NHS needs to rise above inflation anyway as we have an aging population, .. the demands on the NHS will only grow.
Overall I think the Tories have not done a bad job on health, Hunt needs to hold his nerve over these reforms for sure though.0 -
@ChrisA
Ok... The emergency service is great ..it is. It really really is. I know that.
I also much admire your absolute belief in this system and I do sincerely respect that but I'm sorry, the NHS after the emergency service is just OK maybe and quite often awful. It could be as you say superb and we all want it to be.
I have had to deal with it for many years with my daughter. It really really isn't good for aftercare and until you understand this, fundamental patient feedback then nothing changes. It's a take it or leave it scenario. I was fortunate I could leave it but I am concerned for those that cannot. It is those you yourself should concentrate on and you can do this By taking as many people out of the system that can afford it and you will then have what desire. That's happening any way as NHS regularly turn up at private hospitals and quite rightly the equipment is there and available for use.
You have to get this idea though that the NHS is not world class at the moment and the first step in any long journey is to understand that. The second is to embrace other options. Sorry the NHS religion doesn't resonate anymore with joe public. Remember 24 hours to save NHS and the Tories still won.
I try to avoid the NHS and will say no more as there is little point in continuing this line.0 -
-
British press perceived to be most right wing of seven European countries (some of which are notoriously left wing)AndyJS said:0 -
Again, deliberately misreading what was meant to confirm your own bias and to deny having to face the fact that the NHS is indeed not so wonderful.Chris_A said:
You can do the same at A&E here - any time, day or night, weekday or weekend. No appointment needed.MTimT said:
You are missing the point. Deliberately, I suspect. You can get any medicine you want when you want at these medical centers - at a time convenient to you not the clinic.Chris_A said:What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Medicine is a service industry. It needs to organize like one. For all its faults and expense, US medical providers get this.
"You can get any medicine you want when you want". That is surely one of the dumbest things ever posted on here and sums up in one sentence all that is wrong with the US medical system.
One difference though, here you get any medicine you NEED.
I have had to use both the NHS and medicine in multiple countries. Aside from emergency care, medicine in the UK sucks, period. Not even in the same league as US, France, Switzerland or Germany.0 -
Interesting that someone chose the work "bias" for the title.RobD said:
British press perceived to be most right wing of seven European countries (some of which are notoriously left wing)AndyJS said:
That assumes that the observer is not willing to accept that it is essentially different opinions; a very "ad-hominem", not to say narrowminded, way of thinking about things.0 -
When do you think Carson and Fiorina will call it quits?MTimT said:
I would think a result along those lines would see Christie drop out and Kasich a stay in for a while, probably until Super Tuesday. Bush would limp on out of pride, but I wouldn't see him lasting beyond SC unless a miracle happens. i.e. a four horse race after SC of Trump, Cruz, Rubio and Kasich.HYUFD said:ARG New Hampshire
GOP
Trump 30%
Rubio 16%
Cruz 10%
Kasich 16%
Bush 9%
Christie 6%
Fiorina 3%
Carson 1%
Dems
Sanders 53%
Clinton 41%
http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/nhrep.html0 -
No 111 is different to OOH. 111 is an advice line. OOH puts you through to GPs in the local area who cover from bases. Also 20 miles is quite acceptable - I mean what do you want? Every surgery open 7/7 for you to get a prescription? Can it wait till Monday? Or is it an emergency. These are the options.Mortimer said:
OOH provision is 111.ReallyEvilMuffin said:Mortimer said:
Lucky you. Mine don't - and nor to the competition.Chris_A said:
My GPs' surgery is open at the weekend. You Tories are all for the free market, if you don't like what your GP is offering find another one.Mortimer said:
None around here, and not at the weekend.Chris_A said:
Not so. There are plenty of non-medical prescribers these days.Mortimer said:
...Chris_A said:
...watford30 said:Chris_A said:Philip_Thompson said:
Seriously you just can't win with some people. It's not as if he was saying the status quo is great which is why he did it!
Defending GPs not opening weekends is particuarly silly. It would make huge sense for all surgeries to open weekends; in fact, it would make more sense for most GP surgeries to open all days except Mondays, like hairdressers.
Go and read Adam Smith.
Finally note that the main users of the service are retired or sub 5 year olds. These users do not need the weekend access and can use the service any time. In short spreading appointments over 7 days loses far more in continuity of care than it does gain in appointment access.
If you are unwell at the weekend then you see OOH. If you need a repeat script at the weekend you really should have planned better.
And I was unable to see a Doctor (excepting 20 miles away) or get a prescription. Even speaking to a doctor the same day was only achieved after constant complaining.
Why people don't see that this is a problem baffles me.
There just isn't the demand for that kind of service. If it were all private it would go exactly like this, because there would not be patient numbers to justify this workload.
My patch when I cover OOH has roughly a population of 500 thousand. From this population, over the weekend we receive around 5-600 advice calls on an average weekend 24 hour period. Less than half of these turn into appointments. The day practice of 9000 patients has more appointments serviced during its opening hours on a weekday than the whole healthboard in a weekend 24hour period. The numbers just aren't there for a full weekend service to be viable.0 -
Depends what you base this on - for outcomes compared to cost, it is phenomenal, and by far the best in the world. It falls down a bit for routine surgeries, but it is very much needs driven rather than the US stuff where they chuck everything at you - afterall, everything earns a tariff.MTimT said:
Again, deliberately misreading what was meant to confirm your own bias and to deny having to face the fact that the NHS is indeed not so wonderful.Chris_A said:
You can do the same at A&E here - any time, day or night, weekday or weekend. No appointment needed.MTimT said:
You are missing the point. Deliberately, I suspect. You can get any medicine you want when you want at these medical centers - at a time convenient to you not the clinic.Chris_A said:What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Medicine is a service industry. It needs to organize like one. For all its faults and expense, US medical providers get this.
"You can get any medicine you want when you want". That is surely one of the dumbest things ever posted on here and sums up in one sentence all that is wrong with the US medical system.
One difference though, here you get any medicine you NEED.
I have had to use both the NHS and medicine in multiple countries. Aside from emergency care, medicine in the UK sucks, period. Not even in the same league as US, France, Switzerland or Germany.
Don't get me wrong, I think there should be charges brought into the NHS, but fundamentally for the amount it is funded it is a great service.0 -
It's irrelevant to the race, so I haven't bothered thinking about it. Fiorina will probably drop out soon, but Carson I don't know - seems to be some ego tied up in staying in the race for him.williamglenn said:
When do you think Carson and Fiorina will call it quits?MTimT said:
I would think a result along those lines would see Christie drop out and Kasich a stay in for a while, probably until Super Tuesday. Bush would limp on out of pride, but I wouldn't see him lasting beyond SC unless a miracle happens. i.e. a four horse race after SC of Trump, Cruz, Rubio and Kasich.HYUFD said:ARG New Hampshire
GOP
Trump 30%
Rubio 16%
Cruz 10%
Kasich 16%
Bush 9%
Christie 6%
Fiorina 3%
Carson 1%
Dems
Sanders 53%
Clinton 41%
http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2016/primary/rep/nhrep.html0 -
More Civic nationalism:
AN SNP councillor who hopes to be elected as an MSP in May is being investigated by party officials following allegations she used racist language in a conversation with another nationalist activist.......
Ms McAnulty is alleged to have said that she wants to “get the Pakis out of the party”, according to documents submitted to SNP officials.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-candidate-julie-mcanulty-in-racism-row-1-4024460#ixzz3zdofWPSV0 -
The US system is ridiculously expensive and wasteful for a variety of reasons. I was basing my judgment purely on quality and timeliness of care.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
Depends what you base this on - for outcomes compared to cost, it is phenomenal, and by far the best in the world. It falls down a bit for routine surgeries, but it is very much needs driven rather than the US stuff where they chuck everything at you - afterall, everything earns a tariff.MTimT said:
Again, deliberately misreading what was meant to confirm your own bias and to deny having to face the fact that the NHS is indeed not so wonderful.Chris_A said:
You can do the same at A&E here - any time, day or night, weekday or weekend. No appointment needed.MTimT said:
You are missing the point. Deliberately, I suspect. You can get any medicine you want when you want at these medical centers - at a time convenient to you not the clinic.Chris_A said:What a stupid post. In this country if a dog bites you to can turn up 24/7 and get a tetanus vaccination (if you need one) with no appointment for a very reasonable sum - zero, zilch, nothing, bugger all. What's more it 's available in far more places than London.
Mind you if Hunt gets his way we'll all very likely soon be thinking $70 is reasonable.
Medicine is a service industry. It needs to organize like one. For all its faults and expense, US medical providers get this.
"You can get any medicine you want when you want". That is surely one of the dumbest things ever posted on here and sums up in one sentence all that is wrong with the US medical system.
One difference though, here you get any medicine you NEED.
I have had to use both the NHS and medicine in multiple countries. Aside from emergency care, medicine in the UK sucks, period. Not even in the same league as US, France, Switzerland or Germany.
Don't get me wrong, I think there should be charges brought into the NHS, but fundamentally for the amount it is funded it is a great service.
Terrace housing is way more efficient than villas in private grounds. Doesn't change the fact that a villa is 'better' than a row house.
What annoys me about ChrisA is his blindness to the fact that the NHS has to change, and that it can learn from other systems, including the US, without the other systems having to be perfect. Even the best systems should always be learning and improving.0 -
Unsubstantiated allegation, where someone makes a claim that a statement was made to her, with no witnesses 8 months ago.CarlottaVance said:More Civic nationalism:
AN SNP councillor who hopes to be elected as an MSP in May is being investigated by party officials following allegations she used racist language in a conversation with another nationalist activist.......
Ms McAnulty is alleged to have said that she wants to “get the Pakis out of the party”, according to documents submitted to SNP officials.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-candidate-julie-mcanulty-in-racism-row-1-4024460#ixzz3zdofWPSV
Unless there is a pattern of this, and other people come forward, this should be dismissed out of hand.0 -
He even went so far in the last week or so to opine that the NHS has NOTHING to learn from other systems, the pinnace of arrogance and blinkered world view.MTimT said:What annoys me about ChrisA is his blindness to the fact that the NHS has to change, and that it can learn from other systems, including the US, without the other systems having to be perfect. Even the best systems should always be learning and improving.
0 -
Project Fear only works when you have a compliant media onside that's willing to spike stories at Project Fear's say so (see Alan Cochrane diaries).Casino_Royale said:So far Project Fear isn't getting much traction.
The media are shooting down the arguments in flames faster than scrambled RAF fighters did to Stukas over Kent.0 -
The US system is ridiculously expensive and wasteful for a variety of reasons. I was basing my judgment purely on quality and timeliness of care.MTimT said:
Depends what you base this on - for outcomes compared to cost, it is phenomenal, and by far the best in the world. It falls down a bit for routine surgeries, but it is very much needs driven rather than the US stuff where they chuck everything at you - afterall, everything earns a tariff.
Don't get me wrong, I think there should be charges brought into the NHS, but fundamentally for the amount it is funded it is a great service.
Terrace housing is way more efficient than villas in private grounds. Doesn't change the fact that a villa is 'better' than a row house.
What annoys me about ChrisA is his blindness to the fact that the NHS has to change, and that it can learn from other systems, including the US, without the other systems having to be perfect. Even the best systems should always be learning and improving.
Absolute rubbish. I have never said the NHS doesn't need change. What it does not need is dogmatic change every 5 years. What it certainly does not need is the wasteful US system whereby the choice you constantly trumpet leads to teens of thousands of opiate related deaths per year. The I want it so I'm going to have it culture.0 -
@richardtyndall
Richard, that's fine in theory. People are making huge money out of human misery, they won't roll over. And then we've got politicians negotiating with poppy farmers in Afghan.
I'm just saying that the drugs world is filthy beyond most people's comprehension, we're not talking about a safety belt law here.0
