Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In May we might find out if Corbyn is the liability for Lab

1246

Comments

  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited February 2016
    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.


    ---------
    Yes it happens for sure. This is why women who cry wolf should be dealt with severely it puts all other women at a distinct disadvantage. On the other hand no names must be the order of the day. Men will always be presumed guilty of course it is an inevitability and another crime where the main must prove his innocence rather than as has always been the way the prosecution proving guilt.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    This has been going on for some time. My view: it's stupid to put a duck at his feet: he was a loco designer ffs, and that's what he should be remembered for. Should he have a small statue of Jan Smuts at his feet because another of his locos was called "Union of South Africa"?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Right on cue a really bad Rubio N.H. poll:

    Monmouth, N.H., conducted before the debate, changes since January.

    Trump 30 -2
    Kasich 14 0
    Rubio 13 +1
    Bush 13 +9
    Cruz 12 -2
    Christie 6 -2
    Fiorina 5 0
    Carson 4 +1

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/2114e68d-b5a1-46c5-a375-2d112a71d050.pdf

    With the rest of the tracking polls I say that before the debate the situation in N.H. was returning to the normal pre-Iowa one, aka anyone could end up from 2nd to 5th.

    Bush is back?
    God, I'm glad I haven't been laying Bush...

    Would be hilarious if it did end up as Bush vs Clinton
    Trump would in a four horse race.

    I'm only, er, -765 on Bush...
    I have a very large and complex spreadsheet, with a series of sheets showing implied odds of various candidates in head-to-head match-ups.

    Until yesterday, my big bet was Rubio for POTUS, but not for nominee. I.e., I reckoned the 1.8-1 I was being given if he was the candidate was far too skinny. I've now sold myself down to flat on POTUS following last night's performance, but am still short Rubio for the nomination. I expect to be able to exit that position with a big profit on Wednesday morning.

    I have nothing on Bush, Kasich, etc, except as residuals of various lays. I'm in the +150 to -50 range for all of them.
    Rubio only needs 2nd on Tuesday to keep the POTUS plan alive.
    Hmmm:

    Trump 36
    Rubio 15
    Cruz 14

    Is not that great a result for Cruz Rubio. It makes Nevada an absolute must win state for him, given the paucity of possible wind on Super Tuesday.
    The result was a great night for Trump. If Kasich/Christie/Bush can somehow get a debate bounce then he is an even better favourite due to the bigger field.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    Right on cue a really bad Rubio N.H. poll:

    Monmouth, N.H., conducted before the debate, changes since January.

    Trump 30 -2
    Kasich 14 0
    Rubio 13 +1
    Bush 13 +9
    Cruz 12 -2
    Christie 6 -2
    Fiorina 5 0
    Carson 4 +1

    http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/2114e68d-b5a1-46c5-a375-2d112a71d050.pdf

    With the rest of the tracking polls I say that before the debate the situation in N.H. was returning to the normal pre-Iowa one, aka anyone could end up from 2nd to 5th.

    Bush is back?
    God, I'm glad I haven't been laying Bush...

    Would be hilarious if it did end up as Bush vs Clinton
    Trump would in a four horse race.

    I'm only, er, -765 on Bush...
    I have a very large and complex spreadsheet, with a series of sheets showing implied odds of various candidates in head-to-head match-ups.

    Until yesterday, my big bet was Rubio for POTUS, but not for nominee. I.e., I reckoned the 1.8-1 I was being given if he was the candidate was far too skinny. I've now sold myself down to flat on POTUS following last night's performance, but am still short Rubio for the nomination. I expect to be able to exit that position with a big profit on Wednesday morning.

    I have nothing on Bush, Kasich, etc, except as residuals of various lays. I'm in the +150 to -50 range for all of them.
    Rubio only needs 2nd on Tuesday to keep the POTUS plan alive.
    "Only" might be the problem. No clear second at the moment.
    Well I have a small, but long-standing bet, on Christie surprising everyone and winning NH. So what the hell do I know?
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the Mail the jury was made up of nine women and three men. I think the defendant could have been forgiven for thinking the worst.

    I stood trial for rape at the Old Bailey in 1987 (as many here know). After a four day trial the jury retired for 90 minutes (including lunch) and then returned with the unanimous verdict: Not Guilty.

    The general impression was that they briskly decided their verdict in the first half hour, then chatted about football and Eastenders over pizza slices, so as to not appear flippant or hasty, before returning to the court.

    I could be wrong, but a 90 minute jury retirement is about the minimum you will get when trying a serious crime.
    You certainly have had an eventful life, now saw several of your books lining the shelves of Waterstones main London branch off Piccadilly Circus last week!
    Have you ever consider a autobiographical style book?
    I've already written one modestly bestselling memoir, Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Millions-Women-are-Waiting-Meet/dp/0747585563

    That was all about my colourful lovelife and sexual adventures.

    I have tried in various ways to write a follow up. A book that includes all the insanity and weirdness, drugs and violence, disasters and epiphanies. My problem is that I have too much material. As my agent said once, over lunch, "No one will believe all this happened to one person" - even tho it did. And this is in ADDITION to the stuff in the first book, which was itself fairly intense.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/millions-of-women-are-waiting-to-meet-you-by-sean-thomas-480121.html

    One day I will find a way of framing this material, and making it sell. I look at it as my pension.
    I've said it before, but you *are* Hank Moody from Californication....
  • Options
    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    I would hope that this will result in the regular placing of yellow Rubber Ducks at the feet of the statue. :-)
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited February 2016
    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    I would hope that this will result in the regular placing of yellow Rubber Ducks at the feet of the statue. :-)
    Although the decision to remove the duck was because his family objected to it...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    This has been going on for some time. My view: it's stupid to put a duck at his feet: he was a loco designer ffs, and that's what he should be remembered for. Should he have a small statue of Jan Smuts at his feet because another of his locos was called "Union of South Africa"?
    Don't have a duck in this race but TBF the mallard was named after the Mallard ducks he fed in his garden so there is a link of sorts . Whether that should relay through to an official state though is a point of view though the family appear to be on the no side.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JolyonMaugham: If you should live to be 110 you would not read a better opening than this, by the inestimable @PickardJE. https://t.co/gXhO1vVnxv
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    edited February 2016

    dr_spyn said:

    malcolmg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    malcolmg said:

    You know what, Malcolm? No one would be discussing this, making any issue or even poking a little fun, if one of the SNP MPs hadn't made an issue of Jeremy Corbyn "pulling a silly face" It is all nonsense!

    Meanwhile the best drink in Scotland, of course comes from Islay and is sold in precious 75 cl bottles. Your teeth will feel warm and silky!!

    Certainly agree with you there. Hard to see what they see in the sugary water promoted by some stupid adverts, never tried it and never will. Suits the Scottish cliches for some of the less clever on here. Their limit is buckfast , Irn Bru and Tunnocks Teacakes, that is really pathetic.
    Snowballs...there is more to Scotland than deep fried Mars Bars...
    I give in
    http://www.leesfoods.co.uk/snowballs/

    You must remember these, and their luscious macaroon bars.
    I remember doing a stupid eating challenge with those at uni. Feel sick just thinking about them.
    malcolmg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    malcolmg said:

    dr_spyn said:

    malcolmg said:

    You know what, Malcolm? No one would be discussing this, making any issue or even poking a little fun, if one of the SNP MPs hadn't made an issue of Jeremy Corbyn "pulling a silly face" It is all nonsense!

    Meanwhile the best drink in Scotland, of course comes from Islay and is sold in precious 75 cl bottles. Your teeth will feel warm and silky!!

    Certainly agree with you there. Hard to see what they see in the sugary water promoted by some stupid adverts, never tried it and never will. Suits the Scottish cliches for some of the less clever on here. Their limit is buckfast , Irn Bru and Tunnocks Teacakes, that is really pathetic.
    Snowballs...there is more to Scotland than deep fried Mars Bars...
    I give in
    http://www.leesfoods.co.uk/snowballs/

    You must remember these, and their luscious macaroon bars.
    Yes a very very long time since I had a macaroon bar , solid sugar and very nice indeed.
    I also took part in a snowball eating contest, though I was at school at the time.

    Some of the best meals I have had have been in Scotland. A few years ago, I visited a pub in Shieldaig, the menu included Prawn Marie Rose. However, the plate had 4 langoustines in shells, with a pot of the sauce. I fully intend to revisit it. Plockton's pubs also had wonderful shellfish and fish on their menus, and will be worth another trip.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    This has been going on for some time. My view: it's stupid to put a duck at his feet: he was a loco designer ffs, and that's what he should be remembered for. Should he have a small statue of Jan Smuts at his feet because another of his locos was called "Union of South Africa"?
    Don't have a duck in this race but TBF the mallard was named after the Mallard ducks he fed in his garden so there is a link of sorts . Whether that should relay through to an official state though is a point of view though the family appear to be on the no side.
    It would mean nothing to those casually observing the statue. A model of a steam locomotive (particularly an A4) would make the reason for the statue obvious.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    This has been going on for some time. My view: it's stupid to put a duck at his feet: he was a loco designer ffs, and that's what he should be remembered for. Should he have a small statue of Jan Smuts at his feet because another of his locos was called "Union of South Africa"?
    Don't have a duck in this race but TBF the mallard was named after the Mallard ducks he fed in his garden so there is a link of sorts . Whether that should relay through to an official state though is a point of view though the family appear to be on the no side.
    It would mean nothing to those casually observing the statue. A model of a steam locomotive (particularly an A4) would make the reason for the statue obvious.
    Did you see any clips of the returns of both Royal Scot & Flying Scotsman to the mainline yesterday? There is a clip of RS taken in Wales, where the cameraman is filming from a car keeping up with the speeding train.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited February 2016
    I have not been following opinion polls recently. But decided to have a look at Wikipedia just now.

    It seems that the polls for each polling organisation hardly changed between December and January. Only ICM gives a much better figure for Labour [ 5% against 10% on average ].

    I then read the adjustments ICM now does to its poll and most of it adds to the Tories.

    For example, the initial results [ weighted ] are Con 27% , Lab 26%. This one includes the Don't Knows, Will Not Vote etc.

    After their exclusion, the spread becomes 39% - 37% to the Tories. It is then another adjustment is made regarding Don't Knows , Refusers etc. who are thought to be overwhelmingly Tory and are given a 60 -20 Tory split.

    The result finally becomes Con 40 - Lab 35.

    What do the other pollsters do that their polls are so strikingly different ?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Ted Cruz just handed a nice bazooka to his opponents in S.Carolina:

    John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 40m40 minutes ago
    Cruz says registering women for draft raises specter of forcing his and voters' daughters into foxholes with 220-pound male psychopaths

    Referring to male soldiers as psychopaths will not go down good in military dominated S.Carolina.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    In my mind - unless there is a good reason for casting these specific actors - the agency should select actors at random from a sample that roughly matches the ethnic make up of London's day time population.

    It's easy to read too much into these things, but I think you're right - there is absolutely no way they'd have cast a black man and a white woman.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    I seem to recall the Police / CPS were castigated for NOT investigating Jimmy Saville. They are in a No Win situation.

    Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
  • Options

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    This has been going on for some time. My view: it's stupid to put a duck at his feet: he was a loco designer ffs, and that's what he should be remembered for. Should he have a small statue of Jan Smuts at his feet because another of his locos was called "Union of South Africa"?
    Don't have a duck in this race but TBF the mallard was named after the Mallard ducks he fed in his garden so there is a link of sorts . Whether that should relay through to an official state though is a point of view though the family appear to be on the no side.
    It would mean nothing to those casually observing the statue. A model of a steam locomotive (particularly an A4) would make the reason for the statue obvious.
    I think it is all part of the whimsical nature of people which is popular with the public and adds humanity to such statues. It is one of the things I like so very much about the English that they can remember someone as a human being rather than just an achievement.

    The statue of Sir John Betjeman at St Pancras is a perfect example of this.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    The number of black women raped by white men is so statistically low, that when the US did produce figures it came out as zero through rounding.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Speedy said:

    Ted Cruz just handed a nice bazooka to his opponents in S.Carolina:

    John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 40m40 minutes ago
    Cruz says registering women for draft raises specter of forcing his and voters' daughters into foxholes with 220-pound male psychopaths

    Referring to male soldiers as psychopaths will not go down good in military dominated S.Carolina.

    His voters may not see it that way.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Ted Cruz just handed a nice bazooka to his opponents in S.Carolina:

    John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 40m40 minutes ago
    Cruz says registering women for draft raises specter of forcing his and voters' daughters into foxholes with 220-pound male psychopaths

    Referring to male soldiers as psychopaths will not go down good in military dominated S.Carolina.

    If the draft is to be fully inclusive and random (presumably the reason that drafting women is discussed) then it is likely that the intake would include a few psychopaths.

    Surely drafting women is not something that "socially conservative" South Carolinan Republicans support?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited February 2016
    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    I seem to recall the Police / CPS were castigated for NOT investigating Jimmy Saville. They are in a No Win situation.

    Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
    The issue is because (a) they take too damn long and (b) they go public.

    If they reviewed an allegation quickly and privately and came to a reasoned conclusion people would be fine. It's the uncertainty and the damage to the falsely accused that is the problem.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    I seem to recall the Police / CPS were castigated for NOT investigating Jimmy Saville. They are in a No Win situation.

    Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
    That's is very true.

    They have now gone into overdrive the other way. They do have a difficult job but sometimes common sense escapes them and they deserve the derision they get.
  • Options

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    This has been going on for some time. My view: it's stupid to put a duck at his feet: he was a loco designer ffs, and that's what he should be remembered for. Should he have a small statue of Jan Smuts at his feet because another of his locos was called "Union of South Africa"?
    Don't have a duck in this race but TBF the mallard was named after the Mallard ducks he fed in his garden so there is a link of sorts . Whether that should relay through to an official state though is a point of view though the family appear to be on the no side.
    It would mean nothing to those casually observing the statue. A model of a steam locomotive (particularly an A4) would make the reason for the statue obvious.
    Putting it that way then yes indeed. Or they put up a sign of explanation like they do everywhere else?
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Moses_ said:

    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    I seem to recall the Police / CPS were castigated for NOT investigating Jimmy Saville. They are in a No Win situation.

    Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
    That's is very true.

    They have now gone into overdrive the other way. They do have a difficult job but sometimes common sense escapes them and they deserve the derision they get.
    There are certain crimes that the CPS will prosecute that do not pass the necessary burden, but because they are sensitive and even though the chance of success is low. Usually these are crimes that some people agitate about with bees in their bonnets. A lot of overcompensation etc.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    She lost touch with her own party over a variety of issues, which is why she was voted out.

    Much the same as when she took power, when the existing leader had lost touch with his party.

    What goes around comes around and sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    According to the Mail the jury was made up of nine women and three men. I think the defendant could have been forgiven for thinking the worst.

    I stood trial for rape at the Old Bailey in 1987 (as many here know). After a four day trial the jury retired for 90 minutes (including lunch) and then returned with the unanimous verdict: Not Guilty.

    The general impression was that they briskly decided their verdict in the first half hour, then chatted about football and Eastenders over pizza slices, so as to not appear flippant or hasty, before returning to the court.

    I could be wrong, but a 90 minute jury retirement is about the minimum you will get when trying a serious crime.
    You certainly have had an eventful life, now saw several of your books lining the shelves of Waterstones main London branch off Piccadilly Circus last week!
    I actually saw a copy of The Ice Twins on the first floor of Tesco's Birmingham city centre
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    I seem to recall the Police / CPS were castigated for NOT investigating Jimmy Saville. They are in a No Win situation.

    Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
    Maybe they should just act sensibly, rather than trying to correct one error with an opposite error.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    I seem to recall the Police / CPS were castigated for NOT investigating Jimmy Saville. They are in a No Win situation.

    Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
    The problem is they have been shown up to be totally incompetent and unable to check even some basic facts e.g. William Roache trial was total farce. One victim had her husband in during the interview and he spoke over his wife consistently and told her story. Then lots of very basic stuff that was easy to check wasn't validated in terms of properties and car he owned, when he owned them, when he was on set etc...basically the stories didn't stand up given consistently the people accusing him pointed out properties he had no access to, cars he never owned, times he was on set etc etc etc.

    Then on the flip side, they were losing the Rolf Harris trial and again hadn't done proper checking. They couldn't prove he was at an event where an attack took place. It was a member of the public that produced the crucial evidence (I seemed to remember a newspaper cutting) and it had to be allowed in under special conditions. Again, it was basic stuff.
  • Options



    She lost touch with her own party over a variety of issues, which is why she was voted out.

    Much the same as when she took power, when the existing leader had lost touch with his party.

    What goes around comes around and sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

    You really have no idea. Or rather you are blinded by your own Eurofanaticism. The key event that led to her being forced out was Howe's resignation speech which was entirely due to her hardline stand at the Rome summit. It is no surprise that the key figures in the mutiny to get rid of her were the Eurofanatics like Howe and Heseltine.

    The poll tax provided a good excuse. The real reason for getting rid of her was Europe.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Can't the Thatcher question be settled by a simple séance?
  • Options

    Speedy said:

    Ted Cruz just handed a nice bazooka to his opponents in S.Carolina:

    John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 40m40 minutes ago
    Cruz says registering women for draft raises specter of forcing his and voters' daughters into foxholes with 220-pound male psychopaths

    Referring to male soldiers as psychopaths will not go down good in military dominated S.Carolina.

    If the draft is to be fully inclusive and random (presumably the reason that drafting women is discussed) then it is likely that the intake would include a few psychopaths.

    Surely drafting women is not something that "socially conservative" South Carolinan Republicans support?
    I am not sure what relevance this has since the US Armed Forces are all volunteer, there is no conscription or 'draft'.
    Registering for some future draft may be of passing interest but the role of women in the US armed forces is pretty well established.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Evening PB.

    Are the banknotes going to be resized to fit on the new name of the BoE? :p
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    edited February 2016

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Thatcher lost the confidence of her parliamentary party. Partly that was because she was at loggerheads with Europhiles. Partly that was because of the loss of the Eastbourne by-election to the previously dead Liberal Democrats. (And following the MP being blown up by the IRA.) Partly it was fall out from the Poll Tax. And partly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.

    Like many things, it was not a single factor, but the confluence of many.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548



    She lost touch with her own party over a variety of issues, which is why she was voted out.

    Much the same as when she took power, when the existing leader had lost touch with his party.

    What goes around comes around and sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

    You really have no idea. Or rather you are blinded by your own Eurofanaticism. The key event that led to her being forced out was Howe's resignation speech which was entirely due to her hardline stand at the Rome summit. It is no surprise that the key figures in the mutiny to get rid of her were the Eurofanatics like Howe and Heseltine.

    The poll tax provided a good excuse. The real reason for getting rid of her was Europe.
    Perhaps we should add a few others to the pb seance list so as to be sure!

    It is funny seeing the Maggie cultists trying to use her as an icon, despite her history of integrating Britain into various Euro institutions. Perhaps she will arise like King Arthur to defeat their foes in England's time of need!
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Thatcher lost the confidence of her parliamentary party. Partly that was because she was at loggerheads with Europhiles. Partly that was because of the loss of the Eastbourne by-election to the previously dead Liberal Democrats. (And following the MP being blown up by the IRA.) Partly it was fall out from the Poll Tax. And partly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.
    She had gone rather batty at the end. Drunk on her own delusions of self-certainty.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Maybe they should just act sensibly, rather than trying to correct one error with an opposite error.

    Outrageous suggestion, Sean!
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    us. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    The number of black women raped by white men is so statistically low, that when the US did produce figures it came out as zero through rounding.
    The stats on white murders of blacks versus the opposite are also fairly startling in their difference.

    And this: if you take out crime by blacks, if I recall correctly, then America's homicide rate is about the same as a European country.

    But it should also be noted that blacks are grievously over-represented in the VICTIMS of violent crime, as well. And they suffer from American policing.

    There are various explanations. One thing that, as far as I know, is entirely unexplained, is why Latin America is so violent. The vast majority of the world's most violent cities and countries are in central and south America. Why? They vary wildly in culture, only Iberian colonialism unites them. And this does seem to be the uniting motif: cf The Philippines - another ex-Spanish colony - they are way more dangerous than other south east Asian states.

    it is very odd. Spain is pretty peaceable as a country. Portugal even more so. Why are their colonies so troubled?
    The thing is it's pretty forbidden to enter into discussion. It's easier just to pretend otherwise and make public information films that display the world how you wished it was. Maybe that could be the BBC's new logo "Displaying the world as we wish it was".
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287
    Wanderer said:

    Can't the Thatcher question be settled by a simple séance?

    I think the Sun actually did that in 1987. I seem to remember the medium claimed Keir Hardie had gone SDP, Macdonald was a Thatcherite and Stalin was the lone backer of the Labour Party.

    But then as mediums and spirits don't use mobile phones I imagine the report wasn't very accurate :wink:
  • Options
    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    The number of black women raped by white men is so statistically low, that when the US did produce figures it came out as zero through rounding.
    The stats on white murders of blacks versus the opposite are also fairly startling in their difference.

    And this: if you take out crime by blacks, if I recall correctly, then America's homicide rate is about the same as a European country.

    But it should also be noted that blacks are grievously over-represented in the VICTIMS of violent crime, as well. And they suffer from American policing.

    There are various explanations. One thing that, as far as I know, is entirely unexplained, is why Latin America is so violent. The vast majority of the world's most violent cities and countries are in central and south America. Why? They vary wildly in culture, only Iberian colonialism unites them. And this does seem to be the uniting motif: cf The Philippines - another ex-Spanish colony - they are way more dangerous than other south east Asian states.

    it is very odd. Spain is pretty peaceable as a country. Portugal even more so. Why are their colonies so troubled?
    Cocaine?

  • Options

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    A poor reading of history.
    The tories were never in favour of ever closer union and giving up the Pound.
    Rightly or wrongly Thatcher was savaged from the back benches first by a Chancellor who resigned and than by a foreign secretary who resigned. Its easy to say it was all unfair but her actions led to it. The ex-chancellor, Lawson, is campaigning to leave the EU so he cannot be easily labelled a 'eurofanatic moron'.
    Beyond that the poll tax was survived - by Major, who brought in the council tax instead and won the next election. But the logic only worked because Thatcher was removed. Equally, rebelling against a leader and splitting the party (any party) comes with its price as well.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue.
    The number of black women raped by white men is so statistically low, that when the US did produce figures it came out as zero through rounding.
    The stats on white murders of blacks versus the opposite are also fairly startling in their difference.

    And this: if you take out crime by blacks, if I recall correctly, then America's homicide rate is about the same as a European country.

    But it should also be noted that blacks are grievously over-represented in the VICTIMS of violent crime, as well. And they suffer from American policing.

    There are various explanations. One thing that, as far as I know, is entirely unexplained, is why Latin America is so violent. The vast majority of the world's most violent cities and countries are in central and south America. Why? They vary wildly in culture, only Iberian colonialism unites them. And this does seem to be the uniting motif: cf The Philippines - another ex-Spanish colony - they are way more dangerous than other south east Asian states.

    it is very odd. Spain is pretty peaceable as a country. Portugal even more so. Why are their colonies so troubled?
    Not seen Apocalypto yet?

    The Aztecs, Incas, Sioux etc. were absolutely brutal. Difference is in the North they were wiped out whereas South and Central America ethnically they still constitute a substantial part of the population. The Cartels could teach IS a thing or two about beheadings, a thin veneer of Iberian culture atop an Amerindian mixture.

    Typing Rubio into google still prompts for Christie, Glitch and then debate.

    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/696179024293449728

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Apperently, when white taxi drivers want to shag asian women, they jump on a flight to Bangkok.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    A poor reading of history.
    The tories were never in favour of ever closer union and giving up the Pound.
    Rightly or wrongly Thatcher was savaged from the back benches first by a Chancellor who resigned and than by a foreign secretary who resigned. Its easy to say it was all unfair but her actions led to it. The ex-chancellor, Lawson, is campaigning to leave the EU so he cannot be easily labelled a 'eurofanatic moron'.
    Beyond that the poll tax was survived - by Major, who brought in the council tax instead and won the next election. But the logic only worked because Thatcher was removed. Equally, rebelling against a leader and splitting the party (any party) comes with its price as well.
    Howe was Leader of the House when he resigned.
  • Options
    Moses_ said:

    Paging Sunil

    Bizarre row erupts after duck was axed from sculpture celebrating British steam train designer - who named his engine after the mallards he fed in his garden

    Sir Nigel Gresley statue due to be unveiled at King's Cross Station in April
    Originally supposed to include mallard at feet but society has removed it
    Opposition threatened to attend AGM in birdsuits and leave ducks at feet
    They call the society 'Nazis' and row has spilled onto pages of local paper

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436133/What-steaming-row-British-fury-decision-remove-duck-planned-tribute-statue-engineer-designed-Mallard-steam-train.html#ixzz3zVgSYKOT

    Where is the anti imperialist student when you need one?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited February 2016
    When in the cycle do VP candidates get announced anyway?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    When in the cycle do VP candidates get announced anyway?

    Immediately preceding the convention, traditionally.
  • Options

    Just finished reading The Sunday Times. Well, what I'm going to bother with.

    What a disappointment. Seemingly empty of serious journalism, including the Powell "revelation" about Thatcher.

    The newspaper it reminded me of the most was the ultra tabloidly Metro.

    Never mind the quality, feel the suppliments
  • Options



    She lost touch with her own party over a variety of issues, which is why she was voted out.

    Much the same as when she took power, when the existing leader had lost touch with his party.

    What goes around comes around and sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

    You really have no idea. Or rather you are blinded by your own Eurofanaticism. The key event that led to her being forced out was Howe's resignation speech which was entirely due to her hardline stand at the Rome summit. It is no surprise that the key figures in the mutiny to get rid of her were the Eurofanatics like Howe and Heseltine.

    The poll tax provided a good excuse. The real reason for getting rid of her was Europe.
    Perhaps we should add a few others to the pb seance list so as to be sure!

    It is funny seeing the Maggie cultists trying to use her as an icon, despite her history of integrating Britain into various Euro institutions. Perhaps she will arise like King Arthur to defeat their foes in England's time of need!
    Churchill? :)
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    Yes I noticed that... I wonder what the stats are for that. Low I suspect. Again it does no one any good by ignoring what actually happens in real life and while we do then it will continue. Talking of real life....

    Army generals falsely accused, an innocent politician going to his grave not knowing he would be found innocent and it goes on and on.
    A report this weekend states Cliff RIchard is STILL under investigation. Nearly 18 months now. The whole process is becoming ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    The number of black women raped by white men is so statistically low, that when the US did produce figures it came out as zero through rounding.
    The stats on white murders of blacks versus the opposite are also fairly startling in their difference.

    And this: if you take out crime by blacks, if I recall correctly, then America's homicide rate is about the same as a European country.

    But it should also be noted that blacks are grievously over-represented in the VICTIMS of violent crime, as well. And they suffer from American policing.

    There are various explanations. One thing that, as far as I know, is entirely unexplained, is why Latin America is so violent. The vast majority of the world's most violent cities and countries are in central and south America. Why? They vary wildly in culture, only Iberian colonialism unites them. And this does seem to be the uniting motif: cf The Philippines - another ex-Spanish colony - they are way more dangerous than other south east Asian states.

    it is very odd. Spain is pretty peaceable as a country. Portugal even more so. Why are their colonies so troubled?
    Cocaine?

    Drugs, guns and massive social inequalities.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074

    When in the cycle do VP candidates get announced anyway?

    There aren't any candidates as such, are there? I thought it was entirely at the discretion of the chosen Presidential candidate.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I imagine the white cab driver will have a lot of friends in the takeaway kebab trade - cockneys, Taffs, etc. Probably their wives stay at home and the Geordie predators pick on Asian girls deliberately, hand them over to the other kebab owners with their weird white ethnic clan system.

    It wouldn't surprise me if there is a BBC scriptwriter out there, right now, trying to make this ludicrous scenario remotely believable. Anything but face the fucking truth.

    God I hate the Left. I want them to DIE. Along with an England World Cup victory the complete destruction, annihilation and prior evisceration of everything the Anglo-American left thinks, says, believes, loves, desires and holds precious is my one remaining goal in this earthly life. I want them gone, and I want them to visibly suffer as they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    edited February 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Tarty.
    She had gone rather batty at the end. Drunk on her own delusions of self-certainty.
    Yes. And its not a criticism of her, it is just the reality of things. The world changes over the ten to fifteen powers of high office. Your instincts reduce, sometimes the things that helped you in the past hurt you now.

    Weird with Blair, if you put aside the invasion of Iraq, he probably could have still managed the job for another five years. His problem wasnt that he had lost his touch (some of the best reforms of the labour government came towards the end of his office), but that somebody behind him wanted the job so much that he was actively destabilising the government to hasten the downfall.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Powell was an FCO man and career diplomat.. anyone even remotely surprised he suddenly remembered that Thatcher was a closet REMAINer?
    Perhaps it was pictures like this of her campaigning to Remain while Leader of the Opposition that gave Powell the clue:

    http://gu.com/p/28yzj/stw#img-13

    I see the banner says "Radical Youth for Europe". Is it Corbyn in disguise.

    Happy Birthday Nick and Cyclefree, and best wishes.
    "What we should grasp, however, from the lessons of European history is that, first, there is nothing necessarily benevolent about programmes of European integration; second, the desire to achieve grand utopian plans often poses a grave threat to freedom; and third, European unity has been tried before, and the outcome was far from happy."
    You can pick and choose your Maggie quotes: "I dream of a day when I might board a train at Victoria, and alight in Paris, and need not carry a passport." makes her sound like a fully paid up supporter of Schengen
    I don't think you will find a quote anywhere where she said she was in favour of British membership of a united Europe. Indeed there are dozens of quotes where she makes very clear her opposition to it.

    Face it, anyone with an iota of sense sees that what we are now stuck with is a million miles from simply a free trade area. Those who pretend otherwise are utterly dishonest.
    The single market she signed was more than a free trade area. All trade agreements are more than about tariffs.
    As for a 'united Europe' I would be interested to see just who you think in the UK supports that, and by 'that' I can only assume you mean a United States of Europe, one currency one government. Cameron for one in Parliament last week put on record his categorical opposition to that and I did not see any conservatives shouting him down.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Thatcher lost the confidence of her parliamentary party. Partly that was because she was at loggerheads with Europhiles. Partly that was because of the loss of the Eastbourne by-election to the previously dead Liberal Democrats. (And following the MP being blown up by the IRA.) Partly it was fall out from the Poll Tax. And partly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.

    Like many things, it was not a single factor, but the confluence of many.
    As one who was around at he time, that's about right. Apart from the the LD's being "previously dead". They were coming back.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    When in the cycle do VP candidates get announced anyway?

    There aren't any candidates as such, are there? I thought it was entirely at the discretion of the chosen Presidential candidate.
    It is, and is usually some time around the convention. The Presidential candidate normally creates a search committee to nominate and vet potential candidates. Although sometimes it is more straightforward if the winner nominates one of the other runners - e.g. Reagan with Bush Sr, or Obama with Biden.
  • Options



    A poor reading of history.
    The tories were never in favour of ever closer union and giving up the Pound.
    Rightly or wrongly Thatcher was savaged from the back benches first by a Chancellor who resigned and than by a foreign secretary who resigned. Its easy to say it was all unfair but her actions led to it. The ex-chancellor, Lawson, is campaigning to leave the EU so he cannot be easily labelled a 'eurofanatic moron'.
    Beyond that the poll tax was survived - by Major, who brought in the council tax instead and won the next election. But the logic only worked because Thatcher was removed. Equally, rebelling against a leader and splitting the party (any party) comes with its price as well.

    No simply a reading of what was said at the time and after. Howe made perfectly clear both at the time and after he had retired that the Rome summit was the trigger for his speech. There were plenty of Tories, Howe, Heseltine and Clark amongst them who were very much in favour of ever closer union.

    Lawson saw the error of his ways, as did Thatcher in her later years. Some - including Heseltine and Clark - are still too stupid to see how wrong they were.

    Of course as has become apparent since, the other supplementary cause of Thatcher's downfall was the old guard - again most of the moronic Eurofanatics - who had never acceptd the idea that a woman, and even more so one from a non privileged background, could ever lead the Tory party.

  • Options

    When in the cycle do VP candidates get announced anyway?

    There aren't any candidates as such, are there? I thought it was entirely at the discretion of the chosen Presidential candidate.
    Yes
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Thatcher lost the confidence of her parliamentary party. Partly that was because she was at loggerheads with Europhiles. Partly that was because of the loss of the Eastbourne by-election to the previously dead Liberal Democrats. (And following the MP being blown up by the IRA.) Partly it was fall out from the Poll Tax. And partly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.

    Like many things, it was not a single factor, but the confluence of many.
    As one who was around at he time, that's about right. Apart from the the LD's being "previously dead". They were coming back.
    Sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ6TgaPJcR0
  • Options
    MTimT said:

    When in the cycle do VP candidates get announced anyway?

    There aren't any candidates as such, are there? I thought it was entirely at the discretion of the chosen Presidential candidate.
    It is, and is usually some time around the convention. The Presidential candidate normally creates a search committee to nominate and vet potential candidates. Although sometimes it is more straightforward if the winner nominates one of the other runners - e.g. Reagan with Bush Sr, or Obama with Biden.
    Sorry by candidates, I meant, the group of people attached to presidential candidates. I guess if it's just before the convention the presidential candidate wouldn't necessarily be known - but I must admit I didn't realise it was generally left that late
  • Options

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Although not a direct mover in her downfall, she did alienate one key individual due to her scepticism on Europe in the late 1980s. He wanted the UK to shadow the Deutschmark, and ultimately join the ERM, she didn't.

    Nigel Lawson is now chairman of the Vote Leave campaign.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963
    edited February 2016



    She lost touch with her own party over a variety of issues, which is why she was voted out.

    Much the same as when she took power, when the existing leader had lost touch with his party.

    What goes around comes around and sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose.

    You really have no idea. Or rather you are blinded by your own Eurofanaticism. The key event that led to her being forced out was Howe's resignation speech which was entirely due to her hardline stand at the Rome summit. It is no surprise that the key figures in the mutiny to get rid of her were the Eurofanatics like Howe and Heseltine.

    The poll tax provided a good excuse. The real reason for getting rid of her was Europe.
    Perhaps we should add a few others to the pb seance list so as to be sure!

    It is funny seeing the Maggie cultists trying to use her as an icon, despite her history of integrating Britain into various Euro institutions. Perhaps she will arise like King Arthur to defeat their foes in England's time of need!
    For the record I am far from a Maggie cultist at all. She was responsible for a lot of the idiocy that got us into this EU mess in the first place. Thankfully in later life she saw how wrong she had been. It is a shame more haven't done the same.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Powell was an FCO man and career diplomat.. anyone even remotely surprised he suddenly remembered that Thatcher was a closet REMAINer?
    Perhaps it was pictures like this of her campaigning to Remain while Leader of the Opposition that gave Powell the clue:

    http://gu.com/p/28yzj/stw#img-13

    I see the banner says "Radical Youth for Europe". Is it Corbyn in disguise.

    Happy Birthday Nick and Cyclefree, and best wishes.
    "What we should grasp, however, from the lessons of European history is that, first, there is nothing necessarily benevolent about programmes of European integration; second, the desire to achieve grand utopian plans often poses a grave threat to freedom; and third, European unity has been tried before, and the outcome was far from happy."
    You can pick and choose your Maggie quotes: "I dream of a day when I might board a train at Victoria, and alight in Paris, and need not carry a passport." makes her sound like a fully paid up supporter of Schengen
    I don't think you will find a quote anywhere where she said she was in favour of British membership of a united Europe. Indeed there are dozens of quotes where she makes very clear her opposition to it.

    Face it, anyone with an iota of sense sees that what we are now stuck with is a million miles from simply a free trade area. Those who pretend otherwise are utterly dishonest.
    The single market she signed was more than a free trade area. All trade agreements are more than about tariffs.
    As for a 'united Europe' I would be interested to see just who you think in the UK supports that, and by 'that' I can only assume you mean a United States of Europe, one currency one government. Cameron for one in Parliament last week put on record his categorical opposition to that and I did not see any conservatives shouting him down.
    Indeed the Single European Act that she negotiated and signed significantly extended the power of the EU over various national governments with the purpose of over-riding national non-tariff barriers to movements of capital, goods, and people.

    Maggie is the Godmother of the Brussels super-state that the BOOers despise.

    I accept that she may have not understood its implications, and later possibly came to regret it, but that is the legacy of her premiership.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    g ridiculous. Some one in the plod needs to either shit or get off the pot.
    The number of black women raped by white men is so statistically low, that when the US did produce figures it came out as zero through rounding.
    The stats on white murders of blacks versus the opposite are also fairly startling in their difference.

    And this: if you take out crime by blacks, if I recall correctly, then America's homicide rate is about the same as a European country.

    But it should also be noted that blacks are grievously over-represented in the VICTIMS of violent crime, as well. And they suffer from American policing.

    There are various explanations. One thing that, as far as I know, is entirely unexplained, is why Latin America is so violent. The vast majority of the world's most violent cities and countries are in central and south America. Why? They vary wildly in culture, only Iberian colonialism unites them. And this does seem to be the uniting motif: cf The Philippines - another ex-Spanish colony - they are way more dangerous than other south east Asian states.

    it is very odd. Spain is pretty peaceable as a country. Portugal even more so. Why are their colonies so troubled?
    Cocaine?

    Drugs, guns and massive social inequalities.
    Someone on Twitter just suggested this explanation: that Iberian colonisers left religious systems, but neglected legal codes. This makes a lot of sense.

    Being much less aggressively religious, the Brits, and to a lesser extent the French, were all about imposing The Law (Common or Napoleonic). Hence the greater orderliness in their colonies (with some glaring exceptions, naturally)
    The Americas were uniquely hard hit by disease in the colonial era (estimates of up to 95% fatalities as a consequence of encountering Old World diseases are canvassed). The social dislocation that caused may have a part to play in this.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,343
    edited February 2016
    tlg86 said:



    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    My dad did jury service in the 50s and had a case like this. They struggled - it was obvious that the woman felt she'd been assaulted, and they wanted to give her the relief of finding him guilty. But his defence that he'd been involuntarily squeezed up against her gave them reasonable doubt: they'd have convicted on the balance of evidence, but just weren't sure. I think that successful prosecution at rush hour must be extraordinareily hard.

    But women in London who I know say it's a fairly common experience and a very unpleasant one, to the point that some who hate the idea of special protection were tempted by that "women only carriages" suggestion. They generally try to retaliate by standing on the bloke's toe or the like, but they shouldn't need to.

  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrsrtly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.

    Like many things, it was not a single factor, but the confluence of many.
    As one who was around at he time, that's about right. Apart from the the LD's being "previously dead". They were coming back.
    Sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ6TgaPJcR0

    Apparently she had no idea who Monty Python was or what the sketch meant.... Bless.. totally humourless..
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074

    Sorry by candidates, I meant, the group of people attached to presidential candidates. I guess if it's just before the convention the presidential candidate wouldn't necessarily be known - but I must admit I didn't realise it was generally left that late

    The trick is apparently to look out for unusual private jet movements. If Trump's plane is seen flying to New Mexico then put your money on Susana Martinez.

    For the record I am far from a Maggie cultist at all. She was responsible for a lot of the idiocy that got us into this EU mess in the first place. Thankfully in later life she saw how wrong she had been. It is a shame more haven't done the same.

    Have you ever been wrong about anything?

  • Options

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    Christ on a bike, Powell was suggesting what she would do now, do you think what she said in 2003 or 14 years earlier is going to be most relevant there ? Also we are talking about the EU as it is now, not as it was in 1999. You really don't have to try this hard, we are taking your pro-EU credentials as read.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Although not a direct mover in her downfall, she did alienate one key individual due to her scepticism on Europe in the late 1980s. He wanted the UK to shadow the Deutschmark, and ultimately join the ERM, she didn't.

    Nigel Lawson is now chairman of the Vote Leave campaign.
    "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." - Luke 15:7

  • Options

    Just finished reading The Sunday Times. Well, what I'm going to bother with.

    What a disappointment. Seemingly empty of serious journalism, including the Powell "revelation" about Thatcher.

    The newspaper it reminded me of the most was the ultra tabloidly Metro.

    Never mind the quality, feel the suppliments
    There are still one or two great journalists: I always read Adam Boulton, Christina Lamb and Dominic Lawson and Rod Liddle/Clarkson for a laugh; but it's really mainly just entertainment

    I used to love the News Review - real thorough investigative journalism - and appreciated Money, for its insight, and the ST Magazine/Travel/Culture sections for introducing me to new ideas.

    Now, I get better news reviews through blogs, better financial advice through moneysavingexpert.com and more interesting (and high quality) tittle-tattle through the Spectator. And, generally, I get better insight here.

    Sign of the times? (no pun intended)
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I imagine the white cab driver will have a lot of friends in the takeaway kebab trade - cockneys, Taffs, etc. Probably their wives stay at home and the Geordie predators pick on Asian girls deliberately, hand them over to the other kebab owners with their weird white ethnic clan system.

    It wouldn't surprise me if there is a BBC scriptwriter out there, right now, trying to make this ludicrous scenario remotely believable. Anything but face the fucking truth.

    God I hate the Left. I want them to DIE. Along with an England World Cup victory the complete destruction, annihilation and prior evisceration of everything the Anglo-American left thinks, says, believes, loves, desires and holds precious is my one remaining goal in this earthly life. I want them gone, and I want them to visibly suffer as they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    notme said:

    Apparently she had no idea who Monty Python was or what the sketch meant.... Bless.. totally humourless..

    I'm reminded of this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/lord-bell-christmas-with-margaret-thatcher-was-horrible-and-trying-presents-games-and-children-were-9942468.html
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    We might as well speculate on what Attlee or Chamberlain's views would be on this referendum then!

    The simple facts are that while she held the reins, she integrated Britain further into the European institutions, despite plenty of opportunity to campaign to leave.

    Now you may think her an unprincipled waverer swayed by the pro-Europeans around her, but my impression of the lady is that she was not afraid of making her views known!
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Thatcher lost the confidence of her parliamentary party. Partly that was because she was at loggerheads with Europhiles. Partly that was because of the loss of the Eastbourne by-election to the previously dead Liberal Democrats. (And following the MP being blown up by the IRA.) Partly it was fall out from the Poll Tax. And partly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.

    Like many things, it was not a single factor, but the confluence of many.
    As one who was around at he time, that's about right. Apart from the the LD's being "previously dead". They were coming back.
    Although it remains to be seen whether they will come back at all now.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I imagine the white cab driver will have a lot of friends in the takeaway kebab trade - cockneys, Taffs, etc. Probably their wives stay at home and the Geordie predators pick on Asian girls deliberately, hand them over to the other kebab owners with their weird white ethnic clan system.

    It wouldn't surprise me if there is a BBC scriptwriter out there, right now, trying to make this ludicrous scenario remotely believable. Anything but face the fucking truth.

    God I hate the Left. I want them to DIE. Along with an England World Cup victory the complete destruction, annihilation and prior evisceration of everything the Anglo-American left thinks, says, believes, loves, desires and holds precious is my one remaining goal in this earthly life. I want them gone, and I want them to visibly suffer as they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    "Liberalism" like all political ideologies, evolves. 50 years ago, liberals favoured free speech, while conservatives favoured censorship. Now, the reverse is true.

    In part, it's because Out groups argue for tolerance, while In groups argue for the enforcement of orthodoxy. When an Out group achieves political power, it tries to suppress its opponents.
  • Options
    Labour civil war: Momentum's 'Militant-style' blueprint for gaining influence for Jeremy Corbyn

    Exclusive: Leaked document shows group's plan for 20,000 members, eight paid staff and battles with moderates to bolster Jeremy Corbyn

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12145352/Jeremy-Corbyn-Momentums-militant-style-blueprint-for-gaining-influence-over-Labour.html
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)

    See my quotes from her 2003 book below.

    Also the record shows that she was a tough negotiator and actually got some reforms, Cameron and Osborne... not so much.
    2003 was 14 years after she left power.

    While she had power, she integrated Britain further into the EU.
    C
    W
    All of which ignores the fact that it was her opposition to further EU integration that resulted in her being removed by the Eurofanatical morons in her own party.
    It was the plunging polls in response to the poll tax fiasco that led to her downfall.
    That could have been survived. The Eurofanatic morons set out to destroy her because of her hardening opposition to ever closer union. The poll tax issue was simply a good excuse.
    Mrs Thatcher lost the confidence of her parliamentary party. Partly that was because she was at loggerheads with Europhiles. Partly that was because of the loss of the Eastbourne by-election to the previously dead Liberal Democrats. (And following the MP being blown up by the IRA.) Partly it was fall out from the Poll Tax. And partly it was because she had simply been in the job too long, and was older and more tired than she had been 15 years earlier when she'd become leader of the Conservative Party.

    Like many things, it was not a single factor, but the confluence of many.
    As one who was around at he time, that's about right. Apart from the the LD's being "previously dead". They were coming back.
    Sure: (snip)
    I wonder how many in that conference audience from 1990 are (a) still alive and (b) still members of the party?

    It seems a sea of grey hair to me.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now I don't know what the statistics are on this, but the image they are presenting is one of a businessman feeling himself against a woman in rush hour. I'm sure it goes on - but I wonder to what extent the authorities look for something when it isn't there for the sake of ticking a box.

    I love the way they use a white man and a black woman. Because that is how it always works out in real life. Dont you believe that this decision was taken by accident. Our next public information film will have white taxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I imagine the white cab driver will have a lot of friends in the takeaway kebab trade - cockneys, Taffs, etc. Probably their wives stay at home and the Geordie predators pick on Asian girls deliberately, hand them over to the other kebab owners with their weird white ethnic clan system.

    It wouldn't surprise me if there is a BBC scriptwriter out there, right now, trying to make this ludicrous scenario remotely believable. Anything but face the fucking truth.

    God I hate the Left. I want them to DIE. Along with an England World Cup victory the complete destruction, annihilation and prior evisceration of everything the Anglo-American left thinks, says, believes, loves, desires and holds precious is my one remaining goal in this earthly life. I want them gone, and I want them to visibly suffer as they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
  • Options


    The single market she signed was more than a free trade area. All trade agreements are more than about tariffs.
    As for a 'united Europe' I would be interested to see just who you think in the UK supports that, and by 'that' I can only assume you mean a United States of Europe, one currency one government. Cameron for one in Parliament last week put on record his categorical opposition to that and I did not see any conservatives shouting him down.

    Plenty of Lib Dems still support it. As I have said before I am sure there are still Conservatives like Clark and Heseltine who do as well. The only reason they have kept quiet is because they know how opposed to such an idea most of the public would be and so they don't make their views explicit whilst continuing to oppose anything that undermines the EU project.

    And before you ask how I know they are in favour of ever closer union, they are both senior members of the European Movement which has always been in favour of and campaigned for ever closer union and has close ties with the European Federalist Movement and the Federal Trust in the UK.
  • Options

    Sorry by candidates, I meant, the group of people attached to presidential candidates. I guess if it's just before the convention the presidential candidate wouldn't necessarily be known - but I must admit I didn't realise it was generally left that late

    The trick is apparently to look out for unusual private jet movements. If Trump's plane is seen flying to New Mexico then put your money on Susana Martinez.

    For the record I am far from a Maggie cultist at all. She was responsible for a lot of the idiocy that got us into this EU mess in the first place. Thankfully in later life she saw how wrong she had been. It is a shame more haven't done the same.

    Have you ever been wrong about anything?

    I am often wrong. But not when dealing with people like you. You are not bright enough to be a challenge.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.

    I wonder how much longer American universities will dominate the rankings with this nonsense? 5 years? 10? Maximum 15?

    The Chinese - and others - don't give a fuck about our liberal pieties. They want to teach the truth. To the best students. And get the best results. I predict they will overtake the best western Unis within 20 years in terms of pure research (apart from perhaps a few very high tech fields)

    The Decline of the West is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    The top research universities, especially those in the UK, are already in the top 50 solely on the backs of the Asian post-grads. Just look at the make up of PhD and MSc classes in, say, Imperial.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074

    Sorry by candidates, I meant, the group of people attached to presidential candidates. I guess if it's just before the convention the presidential candidate wouldn't necessarily be known - but I must admit I didn't realise it was generally left that late

    The trick is apparently to look out for unusual private jet movements. If Trump's plane is seen flying to New Mexico then put your money on Susana Martinez.

    For the record I am far from a Maggie cultist at all. She was responsible for a lot of the idiocy that got us into this EU mess in the first place. Thankfully in later life she saw how wrong she had been. It is a shame more haven't done the same.

    Have you ever been wrong about anything?

    I am often wrong. But not when dealing with people like you. You are not bright enough to be a challenge.
    Dealing with lesser beings confers infallibility? A curious proposition.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.

    I wonder how much longer American universities will dominate the rankings with this nonsense? 5 years? 10? Maximum 15?

    The Chinese - and others - don't give a fuck about our liberal pieties. They want to teach the truth. To the best students. And get the best results. I predict they will overtake the best western Unis within 20 years in terms of pure research (apart from perhaps a few very high tech fields)

    The Decline of the West is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    Chinese Universities have a long way to go to overtake the west on research. They are pumping out lots of people / publications, but the quality is generally not very good and a lot of publications are tweaking current work, rather than ground breaking stuff.

    If you have any interaction with those educated under the Chinese system will tell you they get rammed into them foundation knowledge, but the whole culture is based round learn what you have been told, don't dare challenge and values copy as highly as original work.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    China have a long way to go to overtake the west on research. They are pumping out lots of people / publications, but the quality is generally not very good and a lot of publications are tweaking current work, rather than ground breaking stuff.

    If you have any interaction with those educated under the Chinese system will tell you they get rammed into them foundation knowledge, but the whole culture is based round learn what you have been told, don't dare challenge and values copy as highly as original work.

    There is some incredible applied physics work that goes on in China. But by and large, I think you're right.

    It's also no coincidence that the best Chinese students want to go the US for their doctoral work.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.

    I wonder how much longer American universities will dominate the rankings with this nonsense? 5 years? 10? Maximum 15?

    The Chinese - and others - don't give a fuck about our liberal pieties. They want to teach the truth. To the best students. And get the best results. I predict they will overtake the best western Unis within 20 years in terms of pure research (apart from perhaps a few very high tech fields)

    The Decline of the West is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    It's grimly ironic that racial discrimination against Asian Americans is somehow considered to be progressive.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.

    I wonder how much longer American universities will dominate the rankings with this nonsense? 5 years? 10? Maximum 15?

    The Chinese - and others - don't give a fuck about our liberal pieties. They want to teach the truth. To the best students. And get the best results. I predict they will overtake the best western Unis within 20 years in terms of pure research (apart from perhaps a few very high tech fields)

    The Decline of the West is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    I think the West has all the signs of a falling polity: the decadence, the laziness, the unwillingness to defend its values, the guilt, the paucity of funds for defence, the shame, huge successive waves of migration from wildly different cultures, yet with all the entitlement remaining as present as ever, together with taking its present status and position completely for granted.

    There was another empire that fell like that once.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    China have a long way to go to overtake the west on research. They are pumping out lots of people / publications, but the quality is generally not very good and a lot of publications are tweaking current work, rather than ground breaking stuff.

    If you have any interaction with those educated under the Chinese system will tell you they get rammed into them foundation knowledge, but the whole culture is based round learn what you have been told, don't dare challenge and values copy as highly as original work.

    There is some incredible applied physics work that goes on in China. But by and large, I think you're right.

    It's also no coincidence that the best Chinese students want to go the US for their doctoral work.
    The best Chinese students are then also not exactly keen to hurry home either once they have experienced a more free system in which they are allowed to conduct their research.

    I am not saying China won't change, the change in the past 20 years is huge, but altering a mindset where teacher is always right, learn by rote even at university level and where imitation / copying is held in high esteem is a big cultural shift. Especially, as all of these criticisms are actually very positive if you are in the business of actually making stuff.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287
    SeanT said:


    The Chinese - and others - don't give a fuck about our liberal pieties. They want to teach the truth. To the best students. And get the best results. I predict they will overtake the best western Unis within 20 years in terms of pure research (apart from perhaps a few very high tech fields)

    If you had seen - as I have - the extraordinarily poor quality of the graduates of these new universities, particularly in China, I think you would be a lot less worried. In Maths they're OK without being earth shattering. In every other discipline they are appalling. History and Literature are the worst, but their natural science programmes are bad too.

    Yes, they are working on a vast scale - I think China has 50 million graduates a year, an astonishing figure - but they are at about the level of nineteenth century Spanish or Italian university graduates, who had to memorise a book and recite it to pass. They have a very long way to go before they challenge the West's supremacy in HE.

    That's not to say however that we should be complacent - merely that we shouldn't panic yet.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    Danny565 said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Powell was an FCO man and career diplomat.. anyone even remotely surprised he suddenly remembered that Thatcher was a closet REMAINer?
    Perhaps it was pictures like this of her campaigning to Remain while Leader of the Opposition that gave Powell the clue:

    http://gu.com/p/28yzj/stw#img-13

    I see the banner says "Radical Youth for Europe". Is it Corbyn in disguise.

    Happy Birthday Nick and Cyclefree, and best wishes.
    Funny how both her official biographers say its a load of codswallop then, but don't bother Mr FoxInSocksEU, really don't bother :)
    I suppose a picture of her as LOTO campaigning for Remain counts for nothing :-)
    https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/6/2/1433267108539/861f0864-a843-46ff-85df-99adb375c834-1020x612.jpeg
    Politician in photo-op shock.

    So from look at pictures of Cameron with the huskies we should assume he is a enthusiastic environmentalist should we ? Or possibly that it was a politically expedient image to portray at the time and actually had damn all to do with his views.
    Mrs T thought referenda the tool of tyrants and demagogues

    She campaigned actively for Remain in the 1975 referendum.

    In 1983 Labour stood on an EU withdrawal manifesto. She campaigned for remaining in. She could easily have passed a Leave bill if she wanted, with cross party support.

    Shortly before the 1987 election she signed the Single European Act that she had helped negotiate.

    Even after her Bruges speech, she was a critic of the EU but not a BOOer.

    Indeed she, like every Tory leader since the very beginning of the EU wanted to stay in, albeit with certain reforms. Her position was much the same as Cameron and Osborne now.

    :-)
    Would she do so in 2015, though?

    I find it unlikely.
    I think she was - through most of her career - a pragmatist. I suspect she would be in favour of EFTA/EEA . She probably wouldn't - her quote about Paris and passports notwithstanding - be in favour of Schengen.
    Given her view on East African Asians and Hong Kongers, and worries about cultural change, doubt she would still be comfortable with high EU migration.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Reading you lot, I am now feeling much more confident about the future of the West than I have done for some time.

  • Options
    Problem with many Asian universities is rampant cheating in examination system, and authorities unwilling to confront it as would mean kicking out scions of wealthy families.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,465
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.

    I wonder how much longer American universities will dominate the rankings with this nonsense? 5 years? 10? Maximum 15?

    The Chinese - and others - don't give a fuck about our liberal pieties. They want to teach the truth. To the best students. And get the best results. I predict they will overtake the best western Unis within 20 years in terms of pure research (apart from perhaps a few very high tech fields)

    The Decline of the West is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    I think the West has all the signs of a falling polity: the decadence, the laziness, the unwillingness to defend its values, the guilt, the paucity of funds for defence, the shame, huge successive waves of migration from wildly different cultures, yet with all the entitlement remaining as present as ever, together with taking its present status and position completely for granted.

    There was another empire that fell like that once.
    All of them. We also have what the Victorians would have classified in their matter of fact way as moral, mental and physical degeneration of the populace.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:



    How often have I heard this fucking shit. It's complacent bollocks.

    Look at the university rankings. Asia is devouring us. And still precious petals cling on to the idea that we have some magic potion that cannot be copied, ever, really really really.

    We don't. Look at the UK motorbike industry. That is the future of western universities. Unless we wise up.

    I am not talking Asia, I said China...and looking at the rankings for 2016, China has only 4 in the top 100 universities, and the highest is 25th. There are some tiny countries that have just as many universities in the top 100, compared to China who have over a billion people.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.
    us on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.
    est is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    Chinese Universities have a long way to go to overtake the west on research. They are pumping out lots of people / publications, but the quality is generally not very good and a lot of publications are tweaking current work, rather than ground breaking stuff.

    If you have any interaction with those educated under the Chinese system will tell you they get rammed into them foundation knowledge, but the whole culture is based round learn what you have been told, don't dare challenge and values copy as highly as original work.
    How often have I heard this fucking shit. It's complacent bollocks.

    Look at the university rankings. Asia is devouring us. And still precious petals cling on to the idea that we have some magic potion that cannot be copied, ever, really really really.

    We don't. Look at the UK motorbike industry. That is the future of western universities. Unless we wise up.
    I know you are keen on hyperbole, but this is rubbish.

    Didn't you study at anywhere decent enough to know that there is no such thing as truth...?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    notme said:

    Moses_ said:

    @tig86
    I walk through Waterloo everyday and am always as careful as possible - there's nothing worse than someone in a rush bashing into you, but accidents do happen at busy times when people are rushing for their train.

    There's been quite a focus on sexual assaults taking place on London transport. Take a look at this advert:

    http://tinyurl.com/kt78jn4

    Now

    I love thtaxi drivers picking up a young asian girl to gang rape.
    I i they go.
    Mr T, if your blood pressure is not yet high enough, I recommend you read this:
    http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/02/a-conversation-with-jonathan-haidt/
    Thought provoking. Being "liberal" doesn't mean you deny others views; it means you critically examine them. And your own.
    Indeed. So should being an academic. The situation on US campuses is getting out of hand.

    Buried in that piece is something I truly believe - we are cosseting our children too much, treating them as fragile things that must not be exposed to risk, rather than letting have more unsupervised play time so that they learn how to self-regulate both individually and in groups of peers.
    It's notable how well Asian-Americans do in the US SATS system (being relatively uncoddled) and how they have to be actively excluded, by race, so that US colleges can squeeze in more whites, and, especially, blacks and Latinos.
    est is happening in our time, and on our watch. It is quite alarming. Yet also, somehow, poignantly inexorable.
    Chinese Universities have a long way to go to overtake the west on research. They are pumping out lots of people / publications, but the quality is generally not very good and a lot of publications are tweaking current work, rather than ground breaking stuff.

    If you have any interaction with those educated under the Chinese system will tell you they get rammed into them foundation knowledge, but the whole culture is based round learn what you have been told, don't dare challenge and values copy as highly as original work.
    How often have I heard this fucking shit. It's complacent bollocks.

    Look at the university rankings. Asia is devouring us. And still precious petals cling on to the idea that we have some magic potion that cannot be copied, ever, really really really.

    We don't. Look at the UK motorbike industry. That is the future of western universities. Unless we wise up.
    China has a different form of political correctness. How far would you get at a Chinese university if you criticised its government?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    SeanT said:

    How often have I heard this fucking shit. It's complacent bollocks.

    Look at the university rankings. Asia is devouring us. And still precious petals cling on to the idea that we have some magic potion that cannot be copied, ever, really really really.

    We don't. Look at the UK motorbike industry. That is the future of western universities. Unless we wise up.

    This is clearly some new meaning of the word "devour" that I was previously unaware of.

    http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2015#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=

    More seriously, China has 1.2bn people. If they didn't produce some fucking awesome universities, it would be a greater surprise.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:


    How often have I heard this fucking shit. It's complacent bollocks.

    Look at the university rankings. Asia is devouring us. And still precious petals cling on to the idea that we have some magic potion that cannot be copied, ever, really really really.

    We don't. Look at the UK motorbike industry. That is the future of western universities. Unless we wise up.

    The highest ranked Asian university in the Times list is Singapore at 25, with four others in the top 50. America had that many in the top five.

    True, some HE systems are collapsing and being overtaken (e.g. Ireland's is in freefall) but as yet HE is a strength.

    Quotas are a very bad idea, whoever they are imposed on, but they are not yet fundamentally damaging the product. In this country at least that's more likely to be a problem when the current generation of professors retires as younger ones are not coming through to replace them due to the funding crisis choking off all eay career posts for the last 10 years.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Asian top bods send kids to Western unis, not the other way around. The unidirectional thing means it can't be all down to smuggling their fortunes out of their countries using kids.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    Given her view on East African Asians and Hong Kongers, and worries about cultural change, doubt she would still be comfortable with high EU migration.

    I think that's probably true; although the great irony is that she probably did more to speed up bringing the former Communist countries into the EU than any other leader.
This discussion has been closed.