politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn drops to his lowest level yet amongst those who vote
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Who is he? I read a bit about the spat last night.CarlottaVance said:
Someone's getting their apology in:
@alanferrier
Following a night's reflection, it's clear that my tweet was misleading, crudely presented and ill-advised. 1/4
In retrospect, I should have left dates on the tweets to make it clear that I was not describing a conversation. 2/4
I have made donations to both @jk_rowling's charity, Lumos, and to @WomenForIndy, 3/4
and will be taking a break from Twitter for a while to regain some much-needed perspective. 4/4
(Tho what he's doing giving money to 'Women for Indy'.....)0 -
Didn't 25% of Tory members vote for JC in the first place?Plato_Says said:Well indeed
That 25% are chuffed to bits.Sean_F said:Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
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Andrew Lawrence
Turned 36 last month, but the good news is if I move to Sweden and claim refugee status I can be 15 again.0 -
If they did, many of our leading universities would be in serious financial trouble.Casino_Royale said:
I'd hope all academics would take that view.Innocent_Abroad said:
One suspects that a fair few academics at Oriel have very little time for any of their donors whatsoever, and view canvassing for funds as both grubby and beneath them.Casino_Royale said:Plato_Says said:What a stupid statement from Oriels own fundraiser. Excuses?
“The likely long-term impact on development and fundraising, assuming our current course of action regarding the statue, is potentially extremely damaging…our alumni do not need many excuses not to give, and for many this will be such an excuse for years to come.
You can simultaneously view canvassing for funds as both grubby and beneath them and a necessary evil that you're willing to do. The insanity is the loons who place their own beliefs on the evils of money first and foremost but no doubt are happy to take their own paycheck at the end of each month.0 -
I'm not, and imagine most of us are not.Plato_Says said:Well indeed
That 25% are chuffed to bits.Sean_F said:Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
The first six months of this Conservative Government pleased me enormously. Since the election of Corbyn, with one or two exceptions like the defence review, it has pulled enthusiastically to the Left.
Corbyn's presence as leader is also toxic for the whole body politik of the U.K. and a serious impedement to good governance, and therefore the long-term Tory reputation for competence.0 -
As I'm sure everyone knows, the record for government debt-to-GDP is held by Japan, and it's around 235% of GDP. (Maybe nearer 240% by year end 2015.)
You might think the Japanese government would have trouble borrowing money. Oh no: with the BOJ drifting into negative interest rate territory today, Japanese 10 year government bonds now yield a staggering 0.09% per year. Invest $100 today, get $101 back in ten years time.0 -
LOL. Countries have spies, and they all spy on each other! Shock horror!!!CarlottaVance said:This is going to confuse the OUTRAGE!!! bus......
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-security-snowden-idUSKCN0V70U7?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter
In other news, the Pontiff follows the religion of Rome, and ursine mammals defecate in arborous areas 0 -
Quite, and when countries find out their spies are betraying them they order them to be killed. I pointed this out the other day and a tsunami of outrage descended upon this blog.Sandpit said:
LOL. Countries have spies, and they all spy on each other! Shock horror!!!CarlottaVance said:This is going to confuse the OUTRAGE!!! bus......
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-security-snowden-idUSKCN0V70U7?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter
In other news, the Pontiff follows the religion of Rome, and ursine mammals defecate in arborous areas0 -
I am shocked I tell you shocked. I thought all those people in doughnut shaped building in the South West* just sat around all day playing chess and solving brain teasers that they set for each other...CarlottaVance said:This is going to confuse the OUTRAGE!!! bus......
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-security-snowden-idUSKCN0V70U7?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter
* and yes it is officially classed as the South West, before somebody says that it isn't in the South West of the country.0 -
What are these "left wing" things the Government has done?Casino_Royale said:
I'm not, and imagine most of us are not.Plato_Says said:Well indeed
That 25% are chuffed to bits.Sean_F said:Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
The first six months of this Conservative Government pleased me enormously. Since the election of Corbyn, with one or two exceptions like the defence review, it has pulled enthusiastically to the Left.
Corbyn's presence as leader is also toxic for the whole body politik of the U.K. and a serious impedement to good governance, and therefore the long-term Tory reputation for competence.
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The joke's gone on too longCasino_Royale said:
I'm not, and imagine most of us are not.Plato_Says said:Well indeed
That 25% are chuffed to bits.Sean_F said:Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
The first six months of this Conservative Government pleased me enormously. Since the election of Corbyn, with one or two exceptions like the defence review, it has pulled enthusiastically to the Left.
Corbyn's presence as leader is also toxic for the whole body politik of the U.K. and a serious impedement to good governance, and therefore the long-term Tory reputation for competence.0 -
Think I might stick to Zopa ;-)rcs1000 said:As I'm sure everyone knows, the record for government debt-to-GDP is held by Japan, and it's around 235% of GDP. (Maybe nearer 240% by year end 2015.)
You might think the Japanese government would have trouble borrowing money. Oh no: with the BOJ drifting into negative interest rate territory today, Japanese 10 year government bonds now yield a staggering 0.09% per year. Invest $100 today, get $101 back in ten years time.0 -
I call it return free riskFrancisUrquhart said:
Think I might stick to Zopa ;-)rcs1000 said:As I'm sure everyone knows, the record for government debt-to-GDP is held by Japan, and it's around 235% of GDP. (Maybe nearer 240% by year end 2015.)
You might think the Japanese government would have trouble borrowing money. Oh no: with the BOJ drifting into negative interest rate territory today, Japanese 10 year government bonds now yield a staggering 0.09% per year. Invest $100 today, get $101 back in ten years time.0 -
Sadly they have a majority.Sean_F said:
The joke's gone on too longCasino_Royale said:
I'm not, and imagine most of us are not.Plato_Says said:Well indeed
That 25% are chuffed to bits.Sean_F said:Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
The first six months of this Conservative Government pleased me enormously. Since the election of Corbyn, with one or two exceptions like the defence review, it has pulled enthusiastically to the Left.
Corbyn's presence as leader is also toxic for the whole body politik of the U.K. and a serious impedement to good governance, and therefore the long-term Tory reputation for competence.0 -
So Corbyn is to blame for this govt's incompetence. Got it, thanks.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not, and imagine most of us are not.Plato_Says said:Well indeed
That 25% are chuffed to bits.Sean_F said:Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
The first six months of this Conservative Government pleased me enormously. Since the election of Corbyn, with one or two exceptions like the defence review, it has pulled enthusiastically to the Left.
Corbyn's presence as leader is also toxic for the whole body politik of the U.K. and a serious impedement to good governance, and therefore the long-term Tory reputation for competence.0 -
Who is buying them, people with future Yen currency obligations trying to hedge the exchange rates? Do Japanese bank savings accounts not pay interest?rcs1000 said:As I'm sure everyone knows, the record for government debt-to-GDP is held by Japan, and it's around 235% of GDP. (Maybe nearer 240% by year end 2015.)
You might think the Japanese government would have trouble borrowing money. Oh no: with the BOJ drifting into negative interest rate territory today, Japanese 10 year government bonds now yield a staggering 0.09% per year. Invest $100 today, get $101 back in ten years time.0 -
He's the Nat who cut & pasted some offensive tweets with JKR's supportive one - suggesting she supported the offensive tweets - this was used by the SNP MP to effectively retract her apology....she's since taken her Twitter account down, and one suspects that Mr Ferrier may have had a quiet word with Messers Sue Grabbit & Run........Plato_Says said:Who is he? I read a bit about the spat last night.
CarlottaVance said:Someone's getting their apology in:
@alanferrier
Following a night's reflection, it's clear that my tweet was misleading, crudely presented and ill-advised. 1/4
In retrospect, I should have left dates on the tweets to make it clear that I was not describing a conversation. 2/4
I have made donations to both @jk_rowling's charity, Lumos, and to @WomenForIndy, 3/4
and will be taking a break from Twitter for a while to regain some much-needed perspective. 4/4
(Tho what he's doing giving money to 'Women for Indy'.....)0 -
The Usher hall in Edinburgh, funded by a Whisky manufacturer, had no license to sell alcohol for most of its existencercs1000 said:This is not about legality, this is about the terms of a lease.
If - back in the early 1900s - you had rented a house in New Earswick, which was built by Joseph Rowntree, then your lease would also have prevented you from drinking on the premises. (Almost all the chocolate moguls were big on temperence.)
You can legally impose whatever conditions you like on a lease. If someone breaks the terms of the lease, they haven't committed a criminal act, but you would have cause to kick them out for breach of contract.0 -
According to the chart Saudi Arabia is only 1.6% debt.0
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Counter-productive. The best post-grads often do undergrad at Ox or Cam, and there might not necessarily be enough rigour elsewhere.Innocent_Abroad said:
It's what students do. They're mostly teenagers. Oxbridge should stop offering BAs, and just do postgrad.Sandpit said:
Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.blackburn63 said:
Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel PolytechnicSandpit said:Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.
One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.
I didn't do an MA, but a couple of my close mates did. Many of the chaps and gals from other places (excepting the Other Place) found the work ethic a bit of a culture shock.0 -
Japanese interest rate is now negative ( -0.1% ).Sandpit said:
Who is buying them, people with future Yen currency obligations trying to hedge the exchange rates? Do Japanese bank savings accounts not pay interest?rcs1000 said:As I'm sure everyone knows, the record for government debt-to-GDP is held by Japan, and it's around 235% of GDP. (Maybe nearer 240% by year end 2015.)
You might think the Japanese government would have trouble borrowing money. Oh no: with the BOJ drifting into negative interest rate territory today, Japanese 10 year government bonds now yield a staggering 0.09% per year. Invest $100 today, get $101 back in ten years time.0 -
If the oil price games carry on much longer that number will rise very quickly. They are burning through currency reserves at an astonishing rate, and desparately trying to reduce govt spending without upsetting the population - the Gulf states have some of the world's most generous welfare for citizens.Pulpstar said:According to the chart Saudi Arabia is only 1.6% debt.
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Are you looking here: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp ?Pulpstar said:According to the chart Saudi Arabia is only 1.6% debt.
That's right, but out of date. Saudi Arabia ran a budget deficit of - IIRC - 16% of GDP in 2015. And it's GDP will undoubtedly have shrunk too.
At the other end of the scale, Ireland had government debt to GDP of 125% in mid 2013. It had fallen to below 100% by September of last year. A reduction of 25% of GDP in 25 months.0 -
Ahh...CarlottaVance said:
He's the Nat who cut & pasted some offensive tweets with JKR's supportive one - suggesting she supported the offensive tweets - this was used by the SNP MP to effectively retract her apology....she's since taken her Twitter account down, and one suspects that Mr Ferrier may have had a quiet word with Messers Sue Grabbit & Run........Plato_Says said:Who is he? I read a bit about the spat last night.
CarlottaVance said:Someone's getting their apology in:
@alanferrier
Following a night's reflection, it's clear that my tweet was misleading, crudely presented and ill-advised. 1/4
In retrospect, I should have left dates on the tweets to make it clear that I was not describing a conversation. 2/4
I have made donations to both @jk_rowling's charity, Lumos, and to @WomenForIndy, 3/4
and will be taking a break from Twitter for a while to regain some much-needed perspective. 4/4
(Tho what he's doing giving money to 'Women for Indy'.....)0 -
I don't think Labour supporters would argue that things are going well, and that's reflected in the polls. But we didn't elect Corbyn *primarily* to do well, but to represent our views consistently - it's a revisit of the "leadership that you support or leadership with no particular views who might win?" debate, which the leadership ballot decisively answered. If he also when and if things settle down manages to do well, that's a bonus. I know it's not the typical view here, or among professionals generally, who feel it's all about winning and making whatever shifts necessary, but it's what most members think. (To reply to ydoether - Corbyn is exceptionally good at being consistent, politely but unwaveringly, in the face of hostility.)
Many thanks to Speedy for his delightfully pithy summaries of the debates last night. Sounds as though Trump made the right call, but we'll soon know!
By the way, three more German polls have confirmed the AfD surge to a consistent 10-11% (though INSA still stands out with their 13%). They disagree about a CDU slump - most still put the CDU at 37-38, with losses distributed randomly among all parties.0 -
Scottish bloke loses first set in the tennis. Perhaps the British bloke might turn up in the second set?0
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The consensus is that Spanner is actually Loyalist "journalist" Euan McColm.dugarbandier said:
This was linked from the wings site:CarlottaVance said:
I'm disinclined to trust people who cut n'paste tweets as 'proof'......not just fibbers, but amateur fibbers.....dugarbandier said:
"is that if you've ever retweeted" ... 200 times so they sayCarlottaVance said:
I suspect she is referring to her recent discussion on Twitter:dugarbandier said:
she's on the side of the majority in the independence debateCarlottaVance said:Latest tweet from JK Rowling: The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/1/28/jk-rowling-natalie-mcgarry-twitter?xid=IFT-Trending
It appears the Nationalist defence is that if you've ever retweeted something by someone you agree with everything they have ever tweeted.....
Of course the Nats didn't help their case by cut & pasting a supportive Rowling tweet, thanking for a charity donation onto other unrelated tweets.....
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from:jk_rowling @BrianSpanner1&src=typd
she seems to know the fellow at least. (I'm not going to spend any more time on the wizardly one -can we talk education instead?)
The wailing by Rowling and typical use of her twitter mob to bully anyone who doesn't believe in her extreme right-wing British Nationalist agenda appears to have backfired spectacularly.0 -
I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal0
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There are a number of factors:Sandpit said:
Who is buying them, people with future Yen currency obligations trying to hedge the exchange rates? Do Japanese bank savings accounts not pay interest?rcs1000 said:As I'm sure everyone knows, the record for government debt-to-GDP is held by Japan, and it's around 235% of GDP. (Maybe nearer 240% by year end 2015.)
You might think the Japanese government would have trouble borrowing money. Oh no: with the BOJ drifting into negative interest rate territory today, Japanese 10 year government bonds now yield a staggering 0.09% per year. Invest $100 today, get $101 back in ten years time.
Firstly, the BIS Basle rules on capital adequacy force banks to hold sovereign debt as it (apparently) risk free. There are similar rules in the insurance industry which create price insensitive purchasers. Put together, Japanese banks and insurance companies bid up Japanese government debt.
Furthermore, with interest rates on cash being negative in Japan, holding long dated government bonds (even at less than 0.1% per year) looks sensible. Finally, the BOJ has been one of the biggest QE guys out there. Debt equivalent to perhasp 50% of GDP is owned by the BOJ.0 -
One of the things holding Oxbridge back is this kind of lazy assumption. There is plenty of rigour to be found elsewhere and there is little remarkable about Oxbridge undergrads.Mortimer said:
Counter-productive. The best post-grads often do undergrad at Ox or Cam, and there might not necessarily be enough rigour elsewhere.0 -
You must be using a different Twitter to the rest of planet earth.Dair said:
The consensus is that Spanner is actually Loyalist "journalist" Euan McColm.dugarbandier said:
This was linked from the wings site:CarlottaVance said:
I'm disinclined to trust people who cut n'paste tweets as 'proof'......not just fibbers, but amateur fibbers.....dugarbandier said:
"is that if you've ever retweeted" ... 200 times so they sayCarlottaVance said:
I suspect she is referring to her recent discussion on Twitter:dugarbandier said:
she's on the side of the majority in the independence debateCarlottaVance said:Latest tweet from JK Rowling: The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/1/28/jk-rowling-natalie-mcgarry-twitter?xid=IFT-Trending
It appears the Nationalist defence is that if you've ever retweeted something by someone you agree with everything they have ever tweeted.....
Of course the Nats didn't help their case by cut & pasting a supportive Rowling tweet, thanking for a charity donation onto other unrelated tweets.....
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from:jk_rowling @BrianSpanner1&src=typd
she seems to know the fellow at least. (I'm not going to spend any more time on the wizardly one -can we talk education instead?)
The wailing by Rowling and typical use of her twitter mob to bully anyone who doesn't believe in her extreme right-wing British Nationalist agenda appears to have backfired spectacularly.0 -
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I'll quit if you willRoger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
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I was live-posting about QT last night (I find it more therapeutic than shouting at the TV, and my other half prefers it too) - I couldn't quite believe she had said it.Plato_Says said:
Unfortunately, because she was wittering away with asides, and trying to be funny throughout the entire episode, nobody paid much attention to it.0 -
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
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I believe she also got shirty about the "bunch of migrants" claim. Interesting to note, has starred on QT before as an impartial audience member.Mortimer said:
I was live-posting about QT last night (I find it more therapeutic than shouting at the TV, and my other half prefers it too) - I couldn't quite believe she had said it.Plato_Says said:
Unfortunately, because she was wittering away with asides, and trying to be funny throughout the entire episode, nobody paid much attention to it.0 -
Unspoofable!Dair said:
The wailing by Rowling and typical use of her twitter mob to bully anyone who doesn't believe in her extreme right-wing British Nationalist agenda appears to have backfired spectacularly.dugarbandier said:
This was linked from the wings site:CarlottaVance said:
I'm disinclined to trust people who cut n'paste tweets as 'proof'......not just fibbers, but amateur fibbers.....dugarbandier said:
"is that if you've ever retweeted" ... 200 times so they sayCarlottaVance said:
I suspect she is referring to her recent discussion on Twitter:dugarbandier said:
she's on the side of the majority in the independence debateCarlottaVance said:Latest tweet from JK Rowling: The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/1/28/jk-rowling-natalie-mcgarry-twitter?xid=IFT-Trending
It appears the Nationalist defence is that if you've ever retweeted something by someone you agree with everything they have ever tweeted.....
Of course the Nats didn't help their case by cut & pasting a supportive Rowling tweet, thanking for a charity donation onto other unrelated tweets.....
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=from:jk_rowling @BrianSpanner1&src=typd
she seems to know the fellow at least. (I'm not going to spend any more time on the wizardly one -can we talk education instead?)
To coin a phrase......
Haste-ye-back to your echo chamber.....0 -
Oh dear, worrying graphic
4 reasons why Europe's refugee crisis may be getting worse https://t.co/PG9iRd2rZn https://t.co/Nge703diCV0 -
When I saw the headline I thought she had said it because there are lots of muslims in BirminghamMortimer said:
I was live-posting about QT last night (I find it more therapeutic than shouting at the TV, and my other half prefers it too) - I couldn't quite believe she had said it.Plato_Says said:
Unfortunately, because she was wittering away with asides, and trying to be funny throughout the entire episode, nobody paid much attention to it.0 -
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
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One thing for sure, there ain't no English bloke turning up.FrancisUrquhart said:Scottish bloke loses first set in the tennis. Perhaps the British bloke might turn up in the second set?
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Oxford has massively increased graduate teaching. In my day, the graduate numbers were about 1/3 those of the undergrads, these days there is parity - possibly even a majority of grads.Innocent_Abroad said:
It's what students do. They're mostly teenagers. Oxbridge should stop offering BAs, and just do postgrad.Sandpit said:
Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.blackburn63 said:
Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel PolytechnicSandpit said:Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.
One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.
This is, in part, due to the creation of new departments/subjects designed specifically to cater to wealthy overseas students.0 -
Good on France http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12126123/Hollande-Rouhani-lunch-scrapped-after-Elysee-Palace-refused-to-remove-wine-from-menu.html
The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.0 -
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.0 -
Murray lives in England. By the SNP's definition of nationality that makes him English. I believe you're not one of those ghastly ethnic nationalist types.Theuniondivvie said:
One thing for sure, there ain't no English bloke turning up.FrancisUrquhart said:Scottish bloke loses first set in the tennis. Perhaps the British bloke might turn up in the second set?
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Well said Nick, I voted Ukip at the last 2 GEs knowing they wouldn't form a govt but because I believe in the principles. Certain tories believe they're somehow more worthy because they voted for the party that "won".NickPalmer said:I don't think Labour supporters would argue that things are going well, and that's reflected in the polls. But we didn't elect Corbyn *primarily* to do well, but to represent our views consistently - it's a revisit of the "leadership that you support or leadership with no particular views who might win?" debate, which the leadership ballot decisively answered. If he also when and if things settle down manages to do well, that's a bonus. I know it's not the typical view here, or among professionals generally, who feel it's all about winning and making whatever shifts necessary, but it's what most members think. (To reply to ydoether - Corbyn is exceptionally good at being consistent, politely but unwaveringly, in the face of hostility.)
Many thanks to Speedy for his delightfully pithy summaries of the debates last night. Sounds as though Trump made the right call, but we'll soon know!
By the way, three more German polls have confirmed the AfD surge to a consistent 10-11% (though INSA still stands out with their 13%). They disagree about a CDU slump - most still put the CDU at 37-38, with losses distributed randomly among all parties.0 -
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.0 -
It's very bad manners towards one's host. It would be like going to a Muslim State banquet and wanting to be served wine, or an Israeli State banquet and wanting to be served pork.Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.0 -
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Surely the Iranian guy could have just not drunk the wine?0 -
Yes. If there's a choice on the menu which I presume there is.
When in Rome, or not in Italys case.
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
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That sentence is the perfect example of a lack of rigour that my tutors would have called me out on.Jonathan said:
One of the things holding Oxbridge back is this kind of lazy assumption. There is plenty of rigour to be found elsewhere and there is little remarkable about Oxbridge undergrads.Mortimer said:
Counter-productive. The best post-grads often do undergrad at Ox or Cam, and there might not necessarily be enough rigour elsewhere.
Key words/phrases in my sentence ignored in your biased interpretation:
often
might not
necessarily
be enough
In short, not one of my comments is refuted, in the normal understanding of English, by your reply.
It was not a lazy assumption, but a carefully hedged expression of opinion.0 -
Surely the Iranian guy could have just not drunk the wine?isam said:
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
With the wine, I would agree.
With the serving food that he cannot eat, I would say it's pretty rude.
It would have been very easy for them to have done salmon, and then there would have been no issue at all.0 -
Isn't it against the French religion for there NOT to be wine at the table ?0
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Plato_Says said:
Yes. If there's a choice on the menu which I presume there is.
When in Rome, or not in Italys case.
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
I would bet we never serve pork at banquets where the Israeli prime minister is the guest of honour.0 -
@ScottyNational: Google : calls for Google to pay more tax after profit spike due to millions of searches by one person in Scotland for 'cheap libel lawyers'0
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To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.0 -
It's very bad manners towards one's host. It would be like going to a Muslim State banquet and wanting to be served wine, or an Israeli State banquet and wanting to be served pork.Sean_F said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
It's bad manners towards one's guest. And deliberately so, looking at the menu. Though both sides seem as bad as each other.
Still, the French aren't hanging around when it comes to brokering business deals with Iranians. Aircraft, petrochemical and car deals within a couple of weeks of relations thawing.
What are we doing? I suspect the Foreign Office are thinking about it over a series of long lunches in Pall Mall. Something will happen in 6 months or so, when contracts have been signed with every other nation.0 -
France needs the money from trade with Iran. Stupid of them to insult potential clients.Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.0 -
With the wine, I would agree.rcs1000 said:
Surely the Iranian guy could have just not drunk the wine?isam said:
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
With the serving food that he cannot eat, I would say it's pretty rude.
It would have been very easy for them to have done salmon, and then there would have been no issue at all.
Yeah Id say you should take into account your guests dietary requirements, but they shouldn't influence what anyone else eats or drinks
The comparison would be the French ambassador having to have a dry meal in Iran wouldn't it? Would we be saying that was outrageous? Id say it was fair enough0 -
What is tragic is that we have big problems to solve.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
This morning on the Today programme there was an absurd debate on whether 15 mins (rather than 22 mins) was enough to provide social care.
It is a ridiculous situation caused by councils scrabbling around looking for tactical solutions to what is one of the biggest and growing problems.
Is there a politician out there with the courage to address this problem properly?
0 -
Lol
Jess Burton
Still thinking about my friend’s Guardian Soulmates date which ended up with the guy being arrested for punching a police horse0 -
I'm easy on that - if an Australo-Hungarian wants to think of herself as English, cool.MonikerDiCanio said:
Murray lives in England. By the SNP's definition of nationality that makes him English. I believe you're not one of those ghastly ethnic nationalist types.Theuniondivvie said:
One thing for sure, there ain't no English bloke turning up.FrancisUrquhart said:Scottish bloke loses first set in the tennis. Perhaps the British bloke might turn up in the second set?
D'ye think Murray thinks of himself as English?0 -
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
Actually, it would be like David Cameron going to a state banquet in Mexico, and the hosts are smoking heroin.0 -
MDiC..The insult went the other way..by requesting Halal meat and no wine for the other guests.0
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Our Methodist church hall doesn't allow hirers to bring in alcohol. I doubt that has much to do with Sharia Law either.CarlottaVance said:
Its not because it breaks Sharia Law
Its because it breaks the terms of the lease
0 -
When the Iranian president comes to Britain, will the prime minister insist on serving suckling pig?0
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Try switching off and on again?richardDodd said:MDiC..The insultbwentbthe other way..bybrequesting HHE INSULT WENT BHE OTHER WAY BY REQUESTINGBTHAT hALAL BE SERVED AND NO WINE FOR THEOTHER GUESTS..
0 -
It is all very well having a desire to feel 'represented' (though NP didn't seem to show any previous inclination towards a Corbynist agenda in the past) - but the point of political parties is surely to strive to win enough votes to stand a chance of implementing their policies.blackburn63 said:
Well said Nick, I voted Ukip at the last 2 GEs knowing they wouldn't form a govt but because I believe in the principles. Certain tories believe they're somehow more worthy because they voted for the party that "won".NickPalmer said:I don't think Labour supporters would argue that things are going well, and that's reflected in the polls. But we didn't elect Corbyn *primarily* to do well, but to represent our views consistently - it's a revisit of the "leadership that you support or leadership with no particular views who might win?" debate, which the leadership ballot decisively answered. If he also when and if things settle down manages to do well, that's a bonus. I know it's not the typical view here, or among professionals generally, who feel it's all about winning and making whatever shifts necessary, but it's what most members think. (To reply to ydoether - Corbyn is exceptionally good at being consistent, politely but unwaveringly, in the face of hostility.)
Many thanks to Speedy for his delightfully pithy summaries of the debates last night. Sounds as though Trump made the right call, but we'll soon know!
By the way, three more German polls have confirmed the AfD surge to a consistent 10-11% (though INSA still stands out with their 13%). They disagree about a CDU slump - most still put the CDU at 37-38, with losses distributed randomly among all parties.
Purity of thought is all very reassuring for those within the bubble - but it is meaningless unless your party is reaching out and persuading voters to actually support you.
And that is where the Corbyn experiment is failing. It is not the membership that should be being represented, it is the electorate. Waving your mandate around hides the fact that the wider population is moving further and further away from the Labour Party - and that is bad for democracy - at least in the short-to-medium term.0 -
Yeah Id say you should take into account your guests dietary requirements, but they shouldn't influence what anyone else eats or drinksisam said:
With the wine, I would agree.rcs1000 said:
Surely the Iranian guy could have just not drunk the wine?isam said:
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
With the serving food that he cannot eat, I would say it's pretty rude.
It would have been very easy for them to have done salmon, and then there would have been no issue at all.
The comparison would be the French ambassador having to have a dry meal in Iran wouldn't it? Would we be saying that was outrageous? Id say it was fair enough
To my mind there's a clear difference between the alcohol, and the food. If other people have a glass of wine, so what?
But if I had a guest round, I would choose food that we could all eat. So, if I had a Jewish friend coming round, I wouldn't serve everyone but him roast pork, while giving him a green salad. It smacks of unnecessary rudeness, and it looks like a deliberate snub.0 -
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
I have some vegan friends that come around for dinner from time to time. Despite being a meat eater, as my guests and friends, for that night I will make food that they can consume. Same with some Muslim friends. I don't really see it as a massive imposition to do so just on that occasion. It isn't like those people are forcing me to change my whole life to conform with them day in day out.0 -
France needs the money from trade with Iran. Stupid of them to insult potential clients.MonikerDiCanio said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
How do Tory Peebies know that lefties aren't potential clients? Or are they stupid, too?
0 -
Actually, it would be like David Cameron going to a state banquet in Mexico, and the hosts are smoking heroin.rcs1000 said:
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
Really? I'm pretty sure a drug wouldn't boost the popularity of any government in the way wine will for Hollande.
0 -
Agreed - it is a very disappointing state of affairs.Jonathan said:
What is tragic is that we have big problems to solve.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
This morning on the Today programme there was an absurd debate on whether 15 mins (rather than 22 mins) was enough to provide social care.
It is a ridiculous situation caused by councils scrabbling around looking for tactical solutions to what is one of the biggest and growing problems.
Is there a politician out there with the courage to address this problem properly?
The sooner people realise that they'll likely have to plan for having their elderly parents live with them, the better.0 -
Again, I don't believe we'd serve pork at a banquet for the Israeli prime minister, or beef at one for the Indian one.richardDodd said:MDiC..The insult went the other way..by requesting Halal meat and no wine for the other guests.
It's very easy to choose neutral foods (like salmon...).0 -
Agreed. This is a problem that will only become more and more of an issue in the years to come and solutions are not about well lets bung a bit more money at it or force providers to spend 5 more minutes with each service user. It requires some radical joined up thinking, long term planning and dare I say it probably some unpopular decisions.Jonathan said:
What is tragic is that we have big problems to solve.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
This morning on the Today programme there was an absurd debate on whether 15 mins (rather than 22 mins) was enough to provide social care.
It is a ridiculous situation caused by councils scrabbling around looking for tactical solutions to what is one of the biggest and growing problems.
Is there a politician out there with the courage to address this problem properly?0 -
Tax breaks for granny in the basement?Mortimer said:
Agreed - it is a very disappointing state of affairs.Jonathan said:
What is tragic is that we have big problems to solve.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
This morning on the Today programme there was an absurd debate on whether 15 mins (rather than 22 mins) was enough to provide social care.
It is a ridiculous situation caused by councils scrabbling around looking for tactical solutions to what is one of the biggest and growing problems.
Is there a politician out there with the courage to address this problem properly?
The sooner people realise that they'll likely have to plan for having their elderly parents live with them, the better.
0 -
Hyperbole aside, probably quite a good idea.Innocent_Abroad said:
Tax breaks for granny in the basement?Mortimer said:
Agreed - it is a very disappointing state of affairs.Jonathan said:
What is tragic is that we have big problems to solve.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
This morning on the Today programme there was an absurd debate on whether 15 mins (rather than 22 mins) was enough to provide social care.
It is a ridiculous situation caused by councils scrabbling around looking for tactical solutions to what is one of the biggest and growing problems.
Is there a politician out there with the courage to address this problem properly?
The sooner people realise that they'll likely have to plan for having their elderly parents live with them, the better.
For the less well off, it would solve the spare room subsidy issue, too, and free up more social housing.0 -
Well said. It makes me boil with anger that the political class as a whole will not get a grip of this issue. I have a number of ageing relatives and am I extremely worried how it will turn out for them over the next few years.FrancisUrquhart said:
Agreed. This is a problem that will only become more and more of an issue in the years to come and solutions are not about well lets bung a bit more money at it or force providers to spend 5 more minutes with each service user. It requires some radical joined up thinking, long term planning and dare I say it probably some unpopular decisions.Jonathan said:
What is tragic is that we have big problems to solve.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do you know, I was just thinking that yesterday. At the moment is it more of the same vs failed bonkers 70's politics. General Election all sides manifestos were piss poor on ideas fronts. When was the last time we got something really new and interesting to debate, rather than just more tinkering. Steve Webb pension reforms I guess, but pensions are exactly things that get people pumped up.Jonathan said:
Is PB any different from politics as a whole? Right now the whole political culture seems utterly dysfunctional. I genuinely can't remember when I last heard an interesting new idea in politics.Roger said:I remember when this used to be a really interesting site for discussing politics. Now it's just a meeting place for those who want to share their ugly prejudices with those of like mind. Is it any wonder that no one on the left bothers anymore? It's rather sad watching those who aren't part of the 'WTF brigade' trying to carry on as normal
This morning on the Today programme there was an absurd debate on whether 15 mins (rather than 22 mins) was enough to provide social care.
It is a ridiculous situation caused by councils scrabbling around looking for tactical solutions to what is one of the biggest and growing problems.
Is there a politician out there with the courage to address this problem properly?0 -
Yeah, when I started in '99 there were 40-50 members of the college MCR in total, by the time I left, the intake per year was not far short of the undergraduates.oxfordsimon said:
Oxford has massively increased graduate teaching. In my day, the graduate numbers were about 1/3 those of the undergrads, these days there is parity - possibly even a majority of grads.Innocent_Abroad said:
It's what students do. They're mostly teenagers. Oxbridge should stop offering BAs, and just do postgrad.Sandpit said:
Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.blackburn63 said:
Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel PolytechnicSandpit said:Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.
One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.
This is, in part, due to the creation of new departments/subjects designed specifically to cater to wealthy overseas students.
It does mean that colleges have to work out that they might be needed 10, 11 months of the year instead of 6.0 -
To my mind there's a clear difference between the alcohol, and the food. If other people have a glass of wine, so what?rcs1000 said:
Yeah Id say you should take into account your guests dietary requirements, but they shouldn't influence what anyone else eats or drinksisam said:
With the wine, I would agree.rcs1000 said:
Surely the Iranian guy could have just not drunk the wine?isam said:
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
With the serving food that he cannot eat, I would say it's pretty rude.
It would have been very easy for them to have done salmon, and then there would have been no issue at all.
The comparison would be the French ambassador having to have a dry meal in Iran wouldn't it? Would we be saying that was outrageous? Id say it was fair enough
But if I had a guest round, I would choose food that we could all eat. So, if I had a Jewish friend coming round, I wouldn't serve everyone but him roast pork, while giving him a green salad. It smacks of unnecessary rudeness, and it looks like a deliberate snub.
Yeah so we are agreeing aren't we that the Frnech were right to serve wine? They didn't impose food he wouldn't eat on him
I don't eat red meat so if I went to a mates house for dinner and he served Roast Beef Id think it was a bit rough, but if I wasn't drinking Id let them drink and Id have a glass of water
Your answer to Plato was that "is it ok to serve pork to a jew?" which I don't think is the same as having wine on the menu in this case
0 -
I have some vegan friends that come around for dinner from time to time. Despite being a meat eater, as my guests and friends, for that night I will make food that they can consume. Same with some Muslim friends. I don't really see it as a massive imposition to do so just on that occasion. It isn't like those people are forcing me to change my whole life to conform with them day in day out.FrancisUrquhart said:
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
I wouldn't serve a vegan menu to a mixed group just because one member subscribed to veganism. I would create a menu with options that suited everyone - everyone would be eating good food in good company without any one person setting the food agenda for the entire party.
For me, it is worth going to an extra bit of effort as chef/host to provide options rather than conformity.0 -
Yeah so we are agreeing aren't we that the Frnech were right to serve wine? They didn't impose food he wouldn't eat on himisam said:
To my mind there's a clear difference between the alcohol, and the food. If other people have a glass of wine, so what?rcs1000 said:
Yeah Id say you should take into account your guests dietary requirements, but they shouldn't influence what anyone else eats or drinksisam said:
With the wine, I would agree.rcs1000 said:
Surely the Iranian guy could have just not drunk the wine?isam said:
Would you say that if the Israeli PM arrived, and we served pork and langoustines?rcs1000 said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
With the serving food that he cannot eat, I would say it's pretty rude.
It would have been very easy for them to have done salmon, and then there would have been no issue at all.
The comparison would be the French ambassador having to have a dry meal in Iran wouldn't it? Would we be saying that was outrageous? Id say it was fair enough
But if I had a guest round, I would choose food that we could all eat. So, if I had a Jewish friend coming round, I wouldn't serve everyone but him roast pork, while giving him a green salad. It smacks of unnecessary rudeness, and it looks like a deliberate snub.
I don't eat red meat so if I went to a mates house for dinner and he served Roast Beef Id think it was a bit rough, but if I wasn't drinking Id let them drink and Id have a glass of water
Yes, I think we're exactly in agreement.0 -
Come Dine with Hollande0
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Where the guests are sent to the shed at the bottom of the garden to eat on their own....and then the host wonders why they were only given a 1 out of 10.Pulpstar said:Come Dine with Hollande
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I wouldn't serve a vegan menu to a mixed group just because one member subscribed to veganism. I would create a menu with options that suited everyone - everyone would be eating good food in good company without any one person setting the food agenda for the entire party.oxfordsimon said:
I have some vegan friends that come around for dinner from time to time. Despite being a meat eater, as my guests and friends, for that night I will make food that they can consume. Same with some Muslim friends. I don't really see it as a massive imposition to do so just on that occasion. It isn't like those people are forcing me to change my whole life to conform with them day in day out.FrancisUrquhart said:
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
For me, it is worth going to an extra bit of effort as chef/host to provide options rather than conformity.
I don't think state banquets are like that. I think they're 80 guys getting mass catering that everyone pretends isn't shit.
Which is why you almost always have salmon or chicken. And why you genuinely do need alcohol to survive them.0 -
Labour's focus on purity of thought may well end up with them facing electoral oblivion. FPTP has a nasty cliff edge as the LibDems discovered.oxfordsimon said:
It is all very well having a desire to feel 'represented' (though NP didn't seem to show any previous inclination towards a Corbynist agenda in the past) - but the point of political parties is surely to strive to win enough votes to stand a chance of implementing their policies.blackburn63 said:
Well said Nick, I voted Ukip at the last 2 GEs knowing they wouldn't form a govt but because I believe in the principles. Certain tories believe they're somehow more worthy because they voted for the party that "won".NickPalmer said:I don't think Labour supporters would argue that things are going well, and that's reflected in the polls. But we didn't elect Corbyn *primarily* to do well, but to represent our views consistently - it's a revisit of the "leadership that you support or leadership with no particular views who might win?" debate, which the leadership ballot decisively answered. If he also when and if things settle down manages to do well, that's a bonus. I know it's not the typical view here, or among professionals generally, who feel it's all about winning and making whatever shifts necessary, but it's what most members think. (To reply to ydoether - Corbyn is exceptionally good at being consistent, politely but unwaveringly, in the face of hostility.)
Many thanks to Speedy for his delightfully pithy summaries of the debates last night. Sounds as though Trump made the right call, but we'll soon know!
By the way, three more German polls have confirmed the AfD surge to a consistent 10-11% (though INSA still stands out with their 13%). They disagree about a CDU slump - most still put the CDU at 37-38, with losses distributed randomly among all parties.
Purity of thought is all very reassuring for those within the bubble - but it is meaningless unless your party is reaching out and persuading voters to actually support you.
And that is where the Corbyn experiment is failing. It is not the membership that should be being represented, it is the electorate. Waving your mandate around hides the fact that the wider population is moving further and further away from the Labour Party - and that is bad for democracy - at least in the short-to-medium term.0 -
I wouldn't serve a vegan menu to a mixed group just because one member subscribed to veganism. I would create a menu with options that suited everyone - everyone would be eating good food in good company without any one person setting the food agenda for the entire party.oxfordsimon said:
I have some vegan friends that come around for dinner from time to time. Despite being a meat eater, as my guests and friends, for that night I will make food that they can consume. Same with some Muslim friends. I don't really see it as a massive imposition to do so just on that occasion. It isn't like those people are forcing me to change my whole life to conform with them day in day out.FrancisUrquhart said:
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
For me, it is worth going to an extra bit of effort as chef/host to provide options rather than conformity.
The question I would ask is: do we serve pork at banquets for the Israelis, or beef for the Indians? If we do not, then we are engaging a little in double standards: we'll respect the religious preferences of Jews and Sikhs with the menu, but not Muslims.0 -
The interesting thing to me about these figures is that they are the first set I have seen that clearly show that there has been a Corbyn honeymoon, albeit consisting of about 10% of GE2015 Labour supporters.
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If you have Sikhs with either Jews or Muslims, then you can't serve any meat AT ALL because of the ban on ritualised slaughter in Sikhism and their insistence on it on the oldest and youngest abrahamic religions. Or at least you'd need two different meats.0
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I don't think state banquets are like that. I think they're 80 guys getting mass catering that everyone pretends isn't shit.rcs1000 said:
I wouldn't serve a vegan menu to a mixed group just because one member subscribed to veganism. I would create a menu with options that suited everyone - everyone would be eating good food in good company without any one person setting the food agenda for the entire party.oxfordsimon said:
I have some vegan friends that come around for dinner from time to time. Despite being a meat eater, as my guests and friends, for that night I will make food that they can consume. Same with some Muslim friends. I don't really see it as a massive imposition to do so just on that occasion. It isn't like those people are forcing me to change my whole life to conform with them day in day out.FrancisUrquhart said:
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
For me, it is worth going to an extra bit of effort as chef/host to provide options rather than conformity.
Which is why you almost always have salmon or chicken. And why you genuinely do need alcohol to survive them.
State banquets can perfectly well cope with providing a vegetarian option alongside the main meat dish.
Though experience of seeking veggie options in France would suggest that lardons are vegetables..
Either way, catering at big events can easily cope with providing a halal or vegan option if so required.
However I am strongly of the opinion that halal food should never be imposed on those who don't subscribe to those rules. Have it as an option, but don't force it on people without their consent.0 -
I don't recommend Corbyn going into the Honeymoon business if this is what his was like...Pro_Rata said:The interesting thing to me about these figures is that they are the first set I have seen that clearly show that there has been a Corbyn honeymoon, albeit consisting of about 10% of GE2015 Labour supporters.
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I keep hearing in the news about Cameron now negotiating for an emergency brake that we have to ask the EC for permission to use and is vague in the usual EC way of life etc etc.....
If the Leave/s campaign/s are unable to slaughter Cameron's deal when he comes back waving his piece of paper as a "europeace in our time", they are just not up to it. It is farcical.0 -
I don't think state banquets are like that. I think they're 80 guys getting mass catering that everyone pretends isn't shit.rcs1000 said:
I wouldn't serve a vegan menu to a mixed group just because one member subscribed to veganism. I would create a menu with options that suited everyone - everyone would be eating good food in good company without any one person setting the food agenda for the entire party.oxfordsimon said:
I have some vegan friends that come around for dinner from time to time. Despite being a meat eater, as my guests and friends, for that night I will make food that they can consume. Same with some Muslim friends. I don't really see it as a massive imposition to do so just on that occasion. It isn't like those people are forcing me to change my whole life to conform with them day in day out.FrancisUrquhart said:
Really? When a guest you have to put up with your hosts.Mortimer said:
To be fair, that seems pretty damn rude. You are our guest, now off you pop to eat your dinner on your own.FrancisUrquhart said:Plato_Says said:The lunch with François Hollande was reportedly dropped as the French refused to bow to demand for halal meat to be served and for the wine to be left off the table
France, unlike Italy, has reportedly refused to take wine off the table for Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, meaning he will lunch alone during his historic trip to Paris – the first for an Iranian leader in 17 years.
Wine = France, France = wine. It is more than alcohol, it symbolises a lot of what France stands for.
It would be like saying you can't wear a suit in Whitehall because so and so is visiting.
For me, it is worth going to an extra bit of effort as chef/host to provide options rather than conformity.
Which is why you almost always have salmon or chicken. And why you genuinely do need alcohol to survive them.
To be honest, politics aside, if they're always salmon or chicken it is no wonder they are awful.
I once took a vegetarian girl to a Hunt Ball. Seeing the face of the host was well worth the cost of the ticket.0 -
Cameron goes to Iran for a state banquet and says
"I am not eating halal meat and I want a glass of wine"
What happens?0 -
And that is why Oxford will never go all-graduate. They enjoy the income from the conference trade far too much to give it up. Indeed I am aware of at least one college that kicked finalists out of their rooms - mid-exam period - just to fit in extra conference guests!BannedInParis said:
Yeah, when I started in '99 there were 40-50 members of the college MCR in total, by the time I left, the intake per year was not far short of the undergraduates.oxfordsimon said:
Oxford has massively increased graduate teaching. In my day, the graduate numbers were about 1/3 those of the undergrads, these days there is parity - possibly even a majority of grads.Innocent_Abroad said:
It's what students do. They're mostly teenagers. Oxbridge should stop offering BAs, and just do postgrad.Sandpit said:
Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.blackburn63 said:
Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel PolytechnicSandpit said:Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.
One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.
This is, in part, due to the creation of new departments/subjects designed specifically to cater to wealthy overseas students.
It does mean that colleges have to work out that they might be needed 10, 11 months of the year instead of 6.0 -
The state of the Lib Dems will probably save a lot of Labour seats.rottenborough said:
Labour's focus on purity of thought may well end up with them facing electoral oblivion. FPTP has a nasty cliff edge as the LibDems discovered.oxfordsimon said:
It is all very well having a desire to feel 'represented' (though NP didn't seem to show any previous inclination towards a Corbynist agenda in the past) - but the point of political parties is surely to strive to win enough votes to stand a chance of implementing their policies.blackburn63 said:
Well said Nick, I voted Ukip at the last 2 GEs knowing they wouldn't form a govt but because I believe in the principles. Certain tories believe they're somehow more worthy because they voted for the party that "won".NickPalmer said:I don't think Labour supporters would argue that things are going well, and that's reflected in the polls. But we didn't elect Corbyn *primarily* to do well, but to represent our views consistently - it's a revisit of the "leadership that you support or leadership with no particular views who might win?" debate, which the leadership ballot decisively answered. If he also when and if things settle down manages to do well, that's a bonus. I know it's not the typical view here, or among professionals generally, who feel it's all about winning and making whatever shifts necessary, but it's what most members think. (To reply to ydoether - Corbyn is exceptionally good at being consistent, politely but unwaveringly, in the face of hostility.)
Many thanks to Speedy for his delightfully pithy summaries of the debates last night. Sounds as though Trump made the right call, but we'll soon know!
By the way, three more German polls have confirmed the AfD surge to a consistent 10-11% (though INSA still stands out with their 13%). They disagree about a CDU slump - most still put the CDU at 37-38, with losses distributed randomly among all parties.
Purity of thought is all very reassuring for those within the bubble - but it is meaningless unless your party is reaching out and persuading voters to actually support you.
And that is where the Corbyn experiment is failing. It is not the membership that should be being represented, it is the electorate. Waving your mandate around hides the fact that the wider population is moving further and further away from the Labour Party - and that is bad for democracy - at least in the short-to-medium term.
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Incidentally, has anyone ever suggested that centuries/millenia old guidelines on certain food/drink consumption in hot places might be negated by the development of fridges....
I frequently jest with my other half (who is Catholic) that eating fish on Friday for religious reasons is a bit hipster, now that fish is generally more expensive than meat.0 -
Can heartily recommend Westminster College if one needs a single bed in the centre of Cambridge. Good breakfast too.oxfordsimon said:
And that is why Oxford will never go all-graduate. They enjoy the income from the conference trade far too much to give it up. Indeed I am aware of at least one college that kicked finalists out of their rooms - mid-exam period - just to fit in extra conference guests!BannedInParis said:
Yeah, when I started in '99 there were 40-50 members of the college MCR in total, by the time I left, the intake per year was not far short of the undergraduates.oxfordsimon said:
Oxford has massively increased graduate teaching. In my day, the graduate numbers were about 1/3 those of the undergrads, these days there is parity - possibly even a majority of grads.Innocent_Abroad said:
It's what students do. They're mostly teenagers. Oxbridge should stop offering BAs, and just do postgrad.Sandpit said:
Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.blackburn63 said:
Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel PolytechnicSandpit said:Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.
One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.
This is, in part, due to the creation of new departments/subjects designed specifically to cater to wealthy overseas students.
It does mean that colleges have to work out that they might be needed 10, 11 months of the year instead of 6.0 -
The real problem we have to solve is that we still have a structural deficit of the best part of £100bn. By this point in the economic cycle we really should have been paying down debt for some time. Instead we are going to borrow about £80bn in this FY.
So the services that we complain about and claim are being cut in "unacceptable" ways already cost about £100bn more than we are prepared to pay in taxes. That is a truly massive gap and it strikes me as hugely optimistic that growth is going to close the circle any time soon.
We face a choice. Either we pay a lot more in taxes (and this will undoubtedly involve very significant reductions in generous allowances like tax relief on pension contributions) or we start finding things that the State does that we do not want them to do anymore. Big things. Bigger than the education and defence budget put together.
Osborne is tiptoeing to higher taxes whilst seeking to restrain the growth in public spending but I continue to have real doubts that this paring approach can succeed. Rather than thinking about new and expensive services that the State can offer we need to think about what has to stop. And if we want our grannies properly looked after we better start coming around to the idea that we will be doing it ourselves.0
