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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn drops to his lowest level yet amongst those who vote

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited January 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn drops to his lowest level yet amongst those who voted LAB last May

Every month for more than 40 years the pollster Ipsos MORI has carried out leader ratings. The question format has been the same simply asking people whether they are satisfied or dissatisfied with the performance of the leaders.

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  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    edited January 2016
    Thirst.

    It's hard to see a way forward for Labour at the moment. They're nearly unelectable under Corbyn, and they can't get rid of him. Meanwhile, he's working hard to change the party so they're more unelectable.

    To be elected, they're hoping on a massive economic crash and Conservative problems that would make the Major years appear Zen-like.

    And it's always a problem when any organisation be it a political party or a business - sits back and relies on their competitors making a mistake.

    The differences with the Blair opposition years up to 1997 are extreme.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    If they want rid, they need to join the Labour Party to oust him then.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    If they want rid, they need to join the Labour Party to oust him then.

    They should have done that before Christmas. The longer they leave it, the harder it gets (fnarr fnarr). And as we saw with Brown and Miliband, his opponents are incapable of doing the necessary.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited January 2016
    I would have said a few months ago that Corbyn was doing a fantastic job (of eating the Labour party from the inside like a cancer) but it's now getting silly.

    There is no effective opposition to the government of the day, and the sensible centre left in the PLP seem unwilling to do anything about the situation - despite clear evidence that a bunch (!) of them are going to get deselected on the new boundaries and a whole bunch more defeated at the polls.

    They've probably only got a small window to do it before May, after which the story becomes the EU referendum, possible change of PM and government mid-term popularity giving Labour an artificial boost as was seen with Ed. If they've not moved by Conference then there will be a further strengthening of the membership vs the elected representatives.

    The moderates need to understand what they stand for, then do something about it. As we saw in the leadership campaign though, the former of these is proving tricky as its not going to be a million miles away from where the government are already.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ZoraSuleman: SKY PLC owner of Sky News appoints James Murdoch as chairman
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    Interestingly Corbyn's rating win among the young does not carry over into the 'best team of leaders' for Labour:

    Which political party do you think has the best team of leaders to deal with the country's problems?

    OA (18-34)
    Con: 43 (32)
    Lab: 16 (25)

    Of course the older (55+) are in no doubt: 50 ; 11
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Interestingly Corbyn's rating win among the young does not carry over into the 'best team of leaders' for Labour:

    Which political party do you think has the best team of leaders to deal with the country's problems?

    OA (18-34)
    Con: 43 (32)
    Lab: 16 (25)

    Of course the older (55+) are in no doubt: 50 ; 11

    When push comes to shove even the kids know the score.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: SKY PLC owner of Sky News appoints James Murdoch as chairman

    Best man for the job, I'm sure, though it is ironic that his republican old man supports the dynastic principle.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    Interestingly Corbyn's rating win among the young does not carry over into the 'best team of leaders' for Labour:

    Which political party do you think has the best team of leaders to deal with the country's problems?

    OA (18-34)
    Con: 43 (32)
    Lab: 16 (25)

    Of course the older (55+) are in no doubt: 50 ; 11

    "We like Corbyn, are rooting for him, and want him to win, but we recognise he couldn't lead a labrador for a walk round the park."
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited January 2016

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    Oh word. It's not exactly as if we're blessed with a surfeit of destroyers (or money) as it is.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    edited January 2016
    Also Con voters are more than twice as likely to think their party is 'most clear and united about what its policies should be'

    Among VI (Con VI on Con, Lab VI on Lab)
    Which political party do you think is the most clear and united about what its policies should be?
    Con: 64
    Lab; 31
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    Scott_P said:

    @ZoraSuleman: SKY PLC owner of Sky News appoints James Murdoch as chairman

    Best man for the job, I'm sure, though it is ironic that his republican old man supports the dynastic principle.
    What do you think of Corbyn's son working as John McDonnell's chief of staff?

    Obviously the best kid for the job, selected through a rigorous process of interviewing the leader's children ...
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    Thanks for that. As one of the outages occurred off the coast of Senegal, I might hazard a tentative guess that air conditioning load might be part of the problem ...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287
    edited January 2016
    Out of curiosity, does anyone think Corbyn has any actual strengths? When I look at him I see a weak, rather dim, lazy, indecisive and elderly hypocrite who rose to the leadership partly through the weakness of his rivals and partly because the membership made a deliberate decision to avoid power and the psychological trauma making hard choices in power entails.

    Has he ever done anything useful or productive to improve people's lives or support them that I have missed?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.

    One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    This may be of interest:

    http://nippon.zaidan.info/seikabutsu/2003/00916/pdf/igtc2003tokyo_os203.pdf
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    Get Rid of All Nuclear Weapons in Britain

    Net support:
    OA: -24
    Scot: -17
    Con: -57
    Lab: +26

    But then......

    Get rid of all nuclear weapons in Britain even if other countries keep theirs.

    Net support:
    OA: -46
    Scot: -52
    Con: -68
    Lab: -26
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sandpit said:

    Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.

    One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.

    Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel Polytechnic
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    This may be of interest:

    http://nippon.zaidan.info/seikabutsu/2003/00916/pdf/igtc2003tokyo_os203.pdf
    Very interesting, thanks. It's a complex system with the two turbines providing base electrical load topped up by the diesel gens when necessary and stored by batteries and fywheels(!) when not needed. Electric propellers too.

    I guess that having everything electric rather than various different mechanical and hydraulic systems removes complexity and adds flexibility, if there's enough power to go around.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705

    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    Thanks for that. As one of the outages occurred off the coast of Senegal, I might hazard a tentative guess that air conditioning load might be part of the problem ...
    Had a fascinating chat with a cruise liner engineer once - they speed up at night as the AC load goes down, then the Bl**dy bakers turn on their ovens.........
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited January 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.

    One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.

    Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel Polytechnic
    Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2016
    I presume that Comrade Corbyn will seize upon this defence fiasco by suggesting that the ships be converted into cross channel ferries for the put upon of Calais, seeking refuge from the living hell that is France.
  • Options
    For any watching the tennis this morning there is only one clear value pick. RAONIC should be 11/10 or 6/5 at the very most to beat Murray and not the 9/4 and 5/2 available. He's unbeaten in 2016 and is playing well after a new fitness regime. He is 3:3 in the head-to-heads.

    What makes me even more positive about RAONIC is Murray's distractions. He is due to be a father in a matter of day's and his father-in-law collapsed in the stadium. As Murray admits he's struggled a little with his focus and there could be a key moment in this match where that proves costly. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/27/andy-murray-milos-raonic-australian-open-tennis-semi-finals

    There will be a part of him that wants to be with his wife rather than slogging it out here for the chance to play Djokovic on Sunday. I think he's worth taking on.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    Thanks for that. As one of the outages occurred off the coast of Senegal, I might hazard a tentative guess that air conditioning load might be part of the problem ...
    Had a fascinating chat with a cruise liner engineer once - they speed up at night as the AC load goes down, then the Bl**dy bakers turn on their ovens.........
    Ha, that's a good story. Operating large ships and planes is now as much about systems management as using seaman or airman skills. 99.99% of the time everything works just fine on the automatics, the other 0.01% is when they earn their salaries!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: I think it might be a bit late for that ... https://t.co/GFNT18bIM6
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited January 2016

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    I enjoyed hearing Lord West spread blame on everyone but one of the men who was in charge of the RN at the time of their design and procurement. Himself.

    He's also very good at whinging about ship numbers, whilst he spent years cosying up to the Labour government responsible for the Elizabeth Class. What was he doing during this time?

    A more interesting question, is have they managed to fit any propellors to the carrier that's been floated...
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited January 2016
    ydoethur said:

    Out of curiosity, does anyone think Corbyn has any actual strengths? When I look at him I see a weak, rather dim, lazy, indecisive and elderly hypocrite who rose to the leadership partly through the weakness of his rivals and partly because the membership made a deliberate decision to avoid power and the psychological trauma making hard choices in power entails.

    Has he ever done anything useful or productive to improve people's lives or support them that I have missed?

    I expect he has in London N19. But your basic point bears repetition: the membership made a deliberate decision to avoid power and the psychological trauma making hard choices in power entails If all those who can cope with that trauma join (or stick with) the Tories - in other words, if you have, and I believe you have, identified the fundamental source of political cleavage in the 21st century, then it's not only the Labour Party whose time has gone. It's Parliamentary democracy, too.

    In betting terms, this suggests that the value lies in Cameron calling an early election (to get a mandate for Lords reform, inter alia) and for a further collapse in turnout.


  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IainMcGill: Teacher appointed first Named Person state guardian struck off https://t.co/podn2r3Qz1
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.

    One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.

    I was at Oriel in the late eighties (the photo you see of the statue has the window of my room from the first year a bit out of shot). That whole building is named after him.

    I can understand why prospective donors might be upset if the college starts trashing the reputation of one of their biggest ever benefactors.

    Would never have happened in Sir Zelman's day...

  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good to see Oriel College either finally see some sense, or give in to blackmail by rich benefactors, whichever you believe.

    One assumes that the custodians of the various scholarships on offer at these prestigious institutions will now make it clear to the recipients that they will be expected to behave themselves or face defunding in future.

    Or that those claiming the place is racist leave immediately and enrol at Whitechapel Polytechnic
    Indeed. It's hardly as if Oxford colleges are short of high-quality applicants for the limited places available. I would be furious if I'd been passed over in favour of those who wish to very publicly bite the hand that feeds them.
    It's what students do. They're mostly teenagers. Oxbridge should stop offering BAs, and just do postgrad.

  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    Ooops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341

    Not good. It'd be interesting to know what the problem with the engines is.

    A little research says the Type 45 is using a relatively new all-electric generation and propulsion system, utilising both gas turbine and diesel generators.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_electric_propulsion

    It sounds as if in certain circumstances there's a mismatch between generated power and demand for it! Adding another genny as a solution suggests the problem is quite fundamental, so either someone messed up in the design process or what was delivered in systems didn't match what was specified. I've never designed a military ship myself, but I'd guess that every ampere is accounted for in the design and for some reason they've found themselves a few short on this ship.
    Thanks for that. As one of the outages occurred off the coast of Senegal, I might hazard a tentative guess that air conditioning load might be part of the problem ...
    Yes, sustained operation in a high temperature environment will both increase the HVAC demand while reducing the the power available from the generators. Probably a good starting point as you say.

    In the sandpit we often see prototype cars driving around in the summer - combination of heat, humidity and the sandy environment conspire to kill cars in all sorts of unnusual ways.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    Scott_P said:

    @IainMcGill: Teacher appointed first Named Person state guardian struck off https://t.co/podn2r3Qz1

    Dayna Dickson-Boath was yesterday struck off the teaching register for sharing fantasies about abusing youngsters.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
    That's not the point. Imagine if a backbencher is caught having a cheeky swig from a hip flask in the corridor - does he get lashed?

    It's absolutely ridiculous.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    !!!!
    Dayna Dickson-Boath was yesterday struck off the teaching register for sharing fantasies about abusing youngsters.
    Scott_P said:

    @IainMcGill: Teacher appointed first Named Person state guardian struck off https://t.co/podn2r3Qz1

  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited January 2016

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a b



    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    Except that Muslims consider that they can only practice their religion when they are "more equal" (as Orwell put it) than others. And white Brits only discovered the virtues of equality when we no longer had the resources to run an Empire.

  • Options
    Outrageous thread - when did OGH decide to join the Tories..... no mention of mandate... nor even a sniff of fresh air.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    ydoethur said:

    Out of curiosity, does anyone think Corbyn has any actual strengths? When I look at him I see a weak, rather dim, lazy, indecisive and elderly hypocrite who rose to the leadership partly through the weakness of his rivals and partly because the membership made a deliberate decision to avoid power and the psychological trauma making hard choices in power entails.

    Has he ever done anything useful or productive to improve people's lives or support them that I have missed?

    I expect he has in London N19. But your basic point bears repetition: the membership made a deliberate decision to avoid power and the psychological trauma making hard choices in power entails If all those who can cope with that trauma join (or stick with) the Tories - in other words, if you have, and I believe you have, identified the fundamental source of political cleavage in the 21st century, then it's not only the Labour Party whose time has gone. It's Parliamentary democracy, too.

    In betting terms, this suggests that the value lies in Cameron calling an early election (to get a mandate for Lords reform, inter alia) and for a further collapse in turnout.


    Plus I am feeling less sorry and mourn less for the Labour Party daily if none of them a) realises this; or b) does anything about it. Doing nothing is a conscious decision.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2016
    Corbynism sweeping the nation...or perhaps more like sweeping the garbage in the streets of Islington at 4am....
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
    That's not the point. Imagine if a backbencher is caught having a cheeky swig from a hip flask in the corridor - does he get lashed?

    It's absolutely ridiculous.
    A suspension would be appropriate, as it would be in most workplaces.
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    My parents bought an ex-vicarage, which had some some clause in the deeds preventing them or anyone else (I guess) operating a public house on the premises. Luckily there is a very good pub about 300 metres away
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What a stupid statement from Oriels own fundraiser. Excuses?
    “The likely long-term impact on development and fundraising, assuming our current course of action regarding the statue, is potentially extremely damaging…our alumni do not need many excuses not to give, and for many this will be such an excuse for years to come.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    True, although to most people the idea of a subsidised bar at work is something of an anachronism in the 21st century, a bit like allowing smoking in offices.

    Always worth keeping an eye on these property deals though, Private Eye had a long running story on a building sold about a decade ago to a Carribean shell company clearly set up as a tax avoidance strategy.
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    edited January 2016



    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free AT WORK for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)

    As long as you're not operating heavy machinery...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited January 2016
    Corbynistas don't take well to bad polling figure for their boy, as I found out yesterday.

    With Cameron the best performing leader and toxic Farage polling as badly as Corbyn, perhaps the leader ratings will be a better predictor for the EURef than the EURef polls.

    Popular Dave vs Toxic Farage, there's only going to be one outcome isn't there ?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314



    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free AT WORK for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)

    As long as you're not operating heavy machinery...
    Do Her Majesty's Ships count as heavy machinery?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It is better to be virtuous than popular. But it is better to be popular than unethical.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
    That's not the point. Imagine if a backbencher is caught having a cheeky swig from a hip flask in the corridor - does he get lashed?

    It's absolutely ridiculous.
    A suspension would be appropriate, as it would be in most workplaces.
    Most?

    Statism at it's worst, telling MPs they can't have a shandy because it breaks Sharia Law is utterly ridiculous.
  • Options

    Corbynistas don't take well to bad polling figure for their boy, as I found out yesterday.

    With Cameron the best performing leader and toxic Farage polling as badly as Corbyn, perhaps the leader ratings will be a better predictor for the EURef than the EURef polls.

    Popular Dave vs Toxic Farage, there's only going to be one outcome isn't there ?

    UKIP are holding back their own 'trump' card - now is the time for Mark Reckless to be centre stage one more time.
  • Options
    Think its Falklands comments that are the killer. In my experience even left leaners feel its a cut and dry issue they remain British. Self determination and all that.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    True, although to most people the idea of a subsidised bar at work is something of an anachronism in the 21st century, a bit like allowing smoking in offices.

    Always worth keeping an eye on these property deals though, Private Eye had a long running story on a building sold about a decade ago to a Carribean shell company clearly set up as a tax avoidance strategy.
    It was 'buildings'.

    HMRC sold their property estate to Mapeley who at the time were based in the Caymans.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/08/revenue-tax-offshore-millions-avoidance

    Yet more inept negotiation by one G Brown.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited January 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    I have tenants, under the law I am not able to stop them drinking, even if I wanted to it is impossible to enforce.

    Btw your last line is exactly my point, more useless government.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2016
    All those nice migrant kids behaving themselves...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421597/Young-migrants-rampage-child-refugee-centre-Sweden-forcing-terrified-staff-lock-office-19-people-rampage-makeshift-weapons.html

    Daily Mail also running a poor story in sense of "evidence" is nonsense, but it is true, that loads of migrants claiming to be kids aren't really kids. We know this is tactic has long been used, and (surprisingly to me at least) it is very very difficult to establish exact age. There was a case in the UK with a gang of Nigerians who had committed a number of violent crimes and the authorities wanted to deport, but all claimed to be kids. The court demanded testing and it was still very difficult to establish if they were minors when they were committing the crimes. I believe in the end the judge said they were adults and had them deported.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
    Booze free at work for a couple of years - blimey I'm not exactly a monk, but I must've been booze free at work since at least 20 years and before that it was maybe one pint at lunch on a hot Summer's day (so about three times a year!)
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    All those nice migrant kids behaving themselves...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421597/Young-migrants-rampage-child-refugee-centre-Sweden-forcing-terrified-staff-lock-office-19-people-rampage-makeshift-weapons.html

    Daily Mail also running a poor story in sense of "evidence" is nonsense, but it is true, that loads of migrants claiming to be kids aren't really kids. We know this is tactic has long been used, and (surprisingly to me at least) it is very very difficult to establish exact age. There was a case in the UK with a gang of Nigerians who had committed a number of violent crimes and the authorities wanted to deport, but all claimed to be kids. The court demanded testing and it was still very difficult to establish if they were minors when they were committing the crimes. I believe in the end the judge said they were adults and had them deported.

    The UN defines anyone under 18 as a child.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    All those nice migrant kids behaving themselves...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421597/Young-migrants-rampage-child-refugee-centre-Sweden-forcing-terrified-staff-lock-office-19-people-rampage-makeshift-weapons.html

    Daily Mail also running a poor story in sense of "evidence" is nonsense, but it is true, that loads of migrants claiming to be kids aren't really kids. We know this is tactic has long been used, and (surprisingly to me at least) it is very very difficult to establish exact age. There was a case in the UK with a gang of Nigerians who had committed a number of violent crimes and the authorities wanted to deport, but all claimed to be kids. The court demanded testing and it was still very difficult to establish if they were minors when they were committing the crimes. I believe in the end the judge said they were adults and had them deported.

    The UN defines anyone under 18 as a child.
    And amazingly loads of migrants will claim to be 16/17....
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Think its Falklands comments that are the killer. In my experience even left leaners feel its a cut and dry issue they remain British. Self determination and all that.

    I'm sure the Argentinian ambassador's remarks, if true, "he's one of ours" will be dusted off for the General Election. It's surely a prerequisite that the British PM is "one of ours" (ie the British). Not being so is just a disqualification for the job.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    In the aftermath of "Bunch Gate", the good Dr Fox suggested that the right are as likely to be outraged about something said by the left as the other way round. Well, I hope I can prove him right this morning!

    Jess Phillips's comments about the good people who frequent Broad Street in Birmingham on a Saturday night are beyond crass. I must admit, I have never had a night out in Birmingham, but I imagine it to be much like any other town or city. Lots of youngsters having too much to drink and probably having more fun than me.

    I doubt that a regular Saturday night in Birmingham involves a gang of young men physically assaulting women en masse. Once again the left's retort to someone pointing out a possible consequence of an open door immigration policy is to say "yeah, but white men (and let's be clear, Phillips's comments were aimed at the white men of Birmingham) are just as bad".

    I'm sure there's some technical term for this but I call it the Guardian's hierarchy of victims. And in this case, immigrants trump women.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    What a stupid statement from Oriels own fundraiser. Excuses?

    “The likely long-term impact on development and fundraising, assuming our current course of action regarding the statue, is potentially extremely damaging…our alumni do not need many excuses not to give, and for many this will be such an excuse for years to come.
    One suspects that a fair few academics at Oriel have very little time for any of their donors whatsoever, and view canvassing for funds as both grubby and beneath them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    I have tenants, under the law I am not able to stop them drinking, even if I wanted to it is impossible to enforce.

    Btw your last line is exactly my point, more useless government.
    Yes you can: it's perfectly legal for you to have a "no alcohol to be consumed on the premises clause".

    If they breached the clause, you would be able to kick them out. Same here.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    watford30 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    True, although to most people the idea of a subsidised bar at work is something of an anachronism in the 21st century, a bit like allowing smoking in offices.

    Always worth keeping an eye on these property deals though, Private Eye had a long running story on a building sold about a decade ago to a Carribean shell company clearly set up as a tax avoidance strategy.
    It was 'buildings'.

    HMRC sold their property estate to Mapeley who at the time were based in the Caymans.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/08/revenue-tax-offshore-millions-avoidance

    Yet more inept negotiation by one G Brown.
    Yes, that's the one!

    Doesn't seem to be anything dodgy (yet) about this one, apart from either no-one reading the lease agreement properly, or reading it and being fine because they didn't intend to open a bar there at the time.

    That sort of terminology is quite usual for banks that operate in Islamic countries or have Islamic backing, they are also good at finding ways around that sort of thing if required. They already tie themselves in knots to avoid charging 'interest' on a loan.

    There's a few hotels in Dubai that got caught by something similar, even a couple of proper 5* hotels in the business district that offer rooms for $100 a night because they don't have a licence. The hotel next door does though!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
    That's not the point. Imagine if a backbencher is caught having a cheeky swig from a hip flask in the corridor - does he get lashed?

    It's absolutely ridiculous.
    A suspension would be appropriate, as it would be in most workplaces.
    Most?

    Statism at it's worst, telling MPs they can't have a shandy because it breaks Sharia Law is utterly ridiculous.
    Its not because it breaks Sharia Law

    Its because it breaks the terms of the lease

  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    tlg86 said:

    In the aftermath of "Bunch Gate", the good Dr Fox suggested that the right are as likely to be outraged about something said by the left as the other way round. Well, I hope I can prove him right this morning!

    Jess Phillips's comments about the good people who frequent Broad Street in Birmingham on a Saturday night are beyond crass. I must admit, I have never had a night out in Birmingham, but I imagine it to be much like any other town or city. Lots of youngsters having too much to drink and probably having more fun than me.

    I doubt that a regular Saturday night in Birmingham involves a gang of young men physically assaulting women en masse. Once again the left's retort to someone pointing out a possible consequence of an open door immigration policy is to say "yeah, but white men (and let's be clear, Phillips's comments were aimed at the white men of Birmingham) are just as bad".

    I'm sure there's some technical term for this but I call it the Guardian's hierarchy of victims. And in this case, immigrants trump women.

    I read the Guardian online, its interesting and thought provoking. If you go to a "working class" area, such as they are nowadays, I'd be amazed if a single person ever reads it. Its a mystery to me how such a tiny % of the population has managed to shape the way we think and act, by this I mean liberal leaning intellectuals who sneer at the people they purport to represent. Think Emily Thornberry, she has nothing in common with the vast majority of labour voters yet she's in the shadow cabinet. Labour's crisis runs far deeper than having Corbyn as leader.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    tlg86 said:

    In the aftermath of "Bunch Gate", the good Dr Fox suggested that the right are as likely to be outraged about something said by the left as the other way round. Well, I hope I can prove him right this morning!

    Jess Phillips's comments about the good people who frequent Broad Street in Birmingham on a Saturday night are beyond crass. I must admit, I have never had a night out in Birmingham, but I imagine it to be much like any other town or city. Lots of youngsters having too much to drink and probably having more fun than me.

    I doubt that a regular Saturday night in Birmingham involves a gang of young men physically assaulting women en masse. Once again the left's retort to someone pointing out a possible consequence of an open door immigration policy is to say "yeah, but white men (and let's be clear, Phillips's comments were aimed at the white men of Birmingham) are just as bad".

    I'm sure there's some technical term for this but I call it the Guardian's hierarchy of victims. And in this case, immigrants trump women.

    "Nothing matters very much, and few things matters at all" - Balfour.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    Being that its property you can apply an covenant you want. It's why there are a large number of empty ex-odeon cinemas scatter around the country (Newcastle has by far the worst example at the top of Pilgrim Street). You suddenly have this large cinema venue that can't be used as a cinema, music venue or anything else) which then sits as a eyesore for 10+ years where the cinema used to be....
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    I have tenants, under the law I am not able to stop them drinking, even if I wanted to it is impossible to enforce.

    Btw your last line is exactly my point, more useless government.
    Yes you can: it's perfectly legal for you to have a "no alcohol to be consumed on the premises clause".

    If they breached the clause, you would be able to kick them out. Same here.
    How could I possibly enforce it? The practicalities are ridiculous.

    Look, drinking is legal, drink driving is illegal.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    More to the point, parliament opens with Christian prayers!

    Mind you its about time that our MPs stopped drinking on the job.
    They're all (well, some of them) about 'setting examples' - going booze free for a couple of years would be an excellent example to set.....(not that I'd follow it....but its the thought that counts...)
    That's not the point. Imagine if a backbencher is caught having a cheeky swig from a hip flask in the corridor - does he get lashed?

    It's absolutely ridiculous.
    A suspension would be appropriate, as it would be in most workplaces.
    Most?

    Statism at it's worst, telling MPs they can't have a shandy because it breaks Sharia Law is utterly ridiculous.
    Its not because it breaks Sharia Law

    Its because it breaks the terms of the lease

    Which is my point about who negotiated it.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited January 2016
    this building with the no booze clause must be huge.. if they want to be so stupid as to forego huge revenues to stick to their clause, so be it.. find somewhere else., simples...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    Trident - the Corbyn option:

    OA - Lab VI - Scot

    Build & arm: 52 - 36 - 46
    Build & not arm: 28 - 34 - 32
    Not build: 16 - 26 - 17

    So not even Labour voters support him - and the only group to do are the 18-24 year olds....
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    What a stupid statement from Oriels own fundraiser. Excuses?

    “The likely long-term impact on development and fundraising, assuming our current course of action regarding the statue, is potentially extremely damaging…our alumni do not need many excuses not to give, and for many this will be such an excuse for years to come.
    One suspects that a fair few academics at Oriel have very little time for any of their donors whatsoever, and view canvassing for funds as both grubby and beneath them.

    I'd hope all academics would take that view.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    I have tenants, under the law I am not able to stop them drinking, even if I wanted to it is impossible to enforce.

    Btw your last line is exactly my point, more useless government.
    Yes you can: it's perfectly legal for you to have a "no alcohol to be consumed on the premises clause".

    If they breached the clause, you would be able to kick them out. Same here.
    How could I possibly enforce it? The practicalities are ridiculous.

    Look, drinking is legal, drink driving is illegal.
    If, for example, they held a noisy party that attracted complaints to you from neighbours. If there was alcohol there then you could use the failure to comply with the lease as the sole reason for the eviction, rather than having to rely on some generic and subjective nuisance argument.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    Somewhat less of 'burqua' than jihadi jez?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    Stewart Wood on R4 talking sense.

    What don't or should I know about him?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    tlg86 said:

    In the aftermath of "Bunch Gate", the good Dr Fox suggested that the right are as likely to be outraged about something said by the left as the other way round. Well, I hope I can prove him right this morning!

    Jess Phillips's comments about the good people who frequent Broad Street in Birmingham on a Saturday night are beyond crass. I must admit, I have never had a night out in Birmingham, but I imagine it to be much like any other town or city. Lots of youngsters having too much to drink and probably having more fun than me.

    I doubt that a regular Saturday night in Birmingham involves a gang of young men physically assaulting women en masse. Once again the left's retort to someone pointing out a possible consequence of an open door immigration policy is to say "yeah, but white men (and let's be clear, Phillips's comments were aimed at the white men of Birmingham) are just as bad".

    I'm sure there's some technical term for this but I call it the Guardian's hierarchy of victims. And in this case, immigrants trump women.

    "Nothing matters very much, and few things matters at all" - Balfour.
    I love that line.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    @sandpit

    One of my tenants is a firm of solicitors, at Christmas they gave me a case of red wine.

    Its called the law of unintended consequences, as I repeatedly say, govt is useless, just leave people alone.
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    How could I possibly enforce it? The practicalities are ridiculous.

    Look, drinking is legal, drink driving is illegal.

    Same way you enforce any other conditions that exist on properties.

    When I last rented I signed both a "no pets" and "no smoking" clause on the property, neither of which is unusual whatsoever and both of which are legal. This is no different at all.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2016
    The guy from the Times was on R5 in the middle of the night. I believe he said the issue with the building is the money was raised specifically via Islamic Bonds (not it was sold to an individual / company who put those conditions in place). Why the UK government is selling / raising money for government buildings via Islamic Bonds is another matter (obviously to get the Middle Eastern money, but doesn't stop them investing in lots of other non-Islamic things in the UK).
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited January 2016
    TOPPING said:

    Stewart Wood on R4 talking sense.

    What don't or should I know about him?

    Lord Wood>.. he was the guy who had problems with bonkers Brown, allegedly being physically pushed about etc by "the great leader"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254304/Brown-bully-Key-No10-figure-tells-pushed-shouted-PM.html
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So Corbyn's not much good, well I never.

    The front page of the Times online there's a piece about parliament moving, snag is its to a building that was secretly put in some sort of Islamic trust so under Sharia Law drinking is forbidden. I wonder what Cameron will look like doing PMQs in a burka

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!
    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    I have tenants, under the law I am not able to stop them drinking, even if I wanted to it is impossible to enforce.

    Btw your last line is exactly my point, more useless government.
    Yes you can: it's perfectly legal for you to have a "no alcohol to be consumed on the premises clause".

    If they breached the clause, you would be able to kick them out. Same here.
    How could I possibly enforce it? The practicalities are ridiculous.

    Look, drinking is legal, drink driving is illegal.
    Enforcement wouldn't be difficult.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    At least Corbyn’s got a beard; Cameron will have to grow one!

    Lol.

    On a serious note I'd like to know who sold the building and what was done with the money
    It sounds like a standard sale and leaseback, taking good advantage of the high property prices in central London.

    There was probably an Islamic bank involved somewhere along the line, that sort of term would be standard in their terms and wasn't spotted until now they were thinking of using the building for something else.

    One hopes the money found its way to the Treasury as an exceptional income line somewhere, to go towards the £1.6trn debt!
    Thanks. I'm a great believer in govt selling property, its what they do with the money I don't trust.

    This may seem like a non-story but if MPs do actually move there the tabloids will be in a frenzy about Sharia Law in parliament, quite rightly. Everybody should and must be treated equally under the law.
    They are.

    If you own a building, you can impose whatever conditions you want when you are renting it.

    So: you can say "you can rent my building for x thousand a month, but no live music, etc etc".

    Someone, at somewhere down the line, entered into a sale-and-leaseback agreement without reading the small print.
    I have tenants, under the law I am not able to stop them drinking, even if I wanted to it is impossible to enforce.

    Btw your last line is exactly my point, more useless government.
    Yes you can: it's perfectly legal for you to have a "no alcohol to be consumed on the premises clause".

    If they breached the clause, you would be able to kick them out. Same here.
    How could I possibly enforce it? The practicalities are ridiculous.

    Look, drinking is legal, drink driving is illegal.
    This is not about legality, this is about the terms of a lease.

    If - back in the early 1900s - you had rented a house in New Earswick, which was built by Joseph Rowntree, then your lease would also have prevented you from drinking on the premises. (Almost all the chocolate moguls were big on temperence.)

    You can legally impose whatever conditions you like on a lease. If someone breaks the terms of the lease, they haven't committed a criminal act, but you would have cause to kick them out for breach of contract.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.
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    That Scottish bloke ain't doing so well in the tennis so far ;-)
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,705
    Someone's getting their apology in:

    @alanferrier

    Following a night's reflection, it's clear that my tweet was misleading, crudely presented and ill-advised. 1/4

    In retrospect, I should have left dates on the tweets to make it clear that I was not describing a conversation. 2/4

    I have made donations to both @jk_rowling's charity, Lumos, and to @WomenForIndy, 3/4

    and will be taking a break from Twitter for a while to regain some much-needed perspective. 4/4

    (Tho what he's doing giving money to 'Women for Indy'.....)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    What a stupid statement from Oriels own fundraiser. Excuses?

    “The likely long-term impact on development and fundraising, assuming our current course of action regarding the statue, is potentially extremely damaging…our alumni do not need many excuses not to give, and for many this will be such an excuse for years to come.
    One suspects that a fair few academics at Oriel have very little time for any of their donors whatsoever, and view canvassing for funds as both grubby and beneath them.
    I'd hope all academics would take that view.

    If they did, many of our leading universities would be in serious financial trouble.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Well indeed :smiley:

    That 25% are chuffed to bits.
    Sean_F said:

    Corbyn's ratings are flattered by 25% of Conservatives saying they're "satisfied" by his leadership. Without them, his rating would be c. 23%.

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The only thing surprising about this poll is that anyone is surprised about this poll.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    The guy from the Times was on R5 in the middle of the night. I believe he said the issue with the building is the money was raised specifically via Islamic Bonds (not it was sold to an individual / company who put those conditions in place). Why the UK government is selling / raising money for government buildings via Islamic Bonds is another matter (obviously to get the Middle Eastern money, but doesn't stop them investing in lots of other non-Islamic things in the UK).

    That makes sense. If it had been flagged at the time they would probably have found a way around it, but obviously no-one thought it would ever be an issue.
This discussion has been closed.