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It's hard to believe there's no scope to change working practices, or shift patterns. Maybe doing things differently rather than "that's how we've always done it". Or perhaps getting rid of deadwood staff. There's no way all 1 million plus employees are working to their full capabilities, or are even any good.bigjohnowls said:
I thinh i would agree that was possible if the internal market were abandoned.chestnut said:
The NHS is, regrettably, stuck in the 20th century. It's the last of the great dinosaur bureaucracies.bigjohnowls said:
When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pocketschestnut said:
700,000 support staff.bigjohnowls said:190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes
Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
#Conflictofinterest
I have personal cause to deal with it in two different capacities - one as a patient - in the last six months.
I see processes, behaviours and communications which have no place in the 21st century; things that other less zealously defended parts of the public sector consigned to the dustbin twenty years ago.
I half expect to encounter people with quill pens and ink wells.
I'd target a 350,000 reduction in it's support payroll.
Majority of Admin Staff are at Commissioners, NHS England outposts,localities etc.
At least 30% of Finance staff in a hospital are prating about negotiating, raising invoices paying invoices, accounting for, the internal market that the reforms made worse.
Commissioners fine Acutes for missing targets they admit are not within the power of the Provider to meet in order to neet their own NHS Eng. target on fines.
Its a complete mess
Try looking here
GPs award £2.4bn deals to their own companies | The Times 11/11/150 -
Fargo S2 is as brill as S1Plato_Says said:Fargo S1 is SUPERB. I loved every minute. It's on Netflix IIRC.
I've S2 waiting for me - but it's a different cast and like True Detective - I'm wary of seeing another great start ruined. I didn't bother past E3 of TD2. It was boring and dire.nigel4england said:
Is Fargo any good, me and the missus are looking for something decent to download.Plato_Says said:Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.
I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.HYUFD said:
Well at least you now know who Robert Webb isPlato_Says said:I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.
HYUFD said:
Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David MitchellPlato_Says said:I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.
rottenborough said:I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?
"Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."
Pass the popcorn!
Meantime you'll enjoy this:
ttp://youtu.be/ZtgPeNKpnyw0 -
Where things are slowly improving rather than deteriorating at an ever increasing pace?taffys said:NHS?
Just let me know if the left get too rowdy and I'll play the Wales card.
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May I suggest you pen a thread on a few topics? They'd only take up as much time as the well thought out regular posts you already make here, and certainly welcomed by many.
PS I haven't seen you post about the HBOS news from yesterday - that'd be interesting to see.Cyclefree said:Aargh! The curse of the new thread.
In response to those on the previous thread commenting about why the left has such a blind spot about Islamism, I posted this - and I make no apologies about posting it again, given that Corbyn - whose blind spots would fill a whole galaxy - is the subject of the thread.
Albert Camus explained it very well:-
"Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood. That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything."
Tony Judt, a marvellous (and, sadly, late) historian also described the phenomenon:-
"Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."
I think that we have to face the fact that for some on the Left, Islamism has precisely this attraction, even if the Left deludes itself into thinking this is all about them being against racism and intolerance.
Just as Islamism seems to have perverted Islam or is a perversion of it, so the Left, by claiming the word "liberal" has perverted what liberalism truly is. It is time for the rest of us to wrest liberal values - real liberal values - back from the left.0 -
Nail on head.AlastairMeeks said:As I understand it, something like 10% of the population account for something like 70% of the nation's healthcare costs. That 10% are, by and large, the elderly. As we as a nation get older, healthcare costs will rise in step with that ageing.
It follows that any spending plan for the NHS linked to inflation (including healthcare inflation) is doomed to failure because the problem is not so much one of inflation but of demography. But we don't seem remotely ready yet for a discussion about what level of spending we are willing to put into healthcare or how that is going to be paid for.0 -
She also plays poker - whats not to likeSimonStClare said:
Victoria Coren is delightful – but disturbingly bright. they make a good pair.nigel4england said:
His wife is very pleasant though!Plato_Says said:I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.
HYUFD said:
Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David MitchellPlato_Says said:I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.
rottenborough said:I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?
"Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."
Pass the popcorn!0 -
Ace, I'll watch it with gusto in that case - thanx for the reassurance.kjohnw said:
Fargo S2 is as brill as S1Plato_Says said:Fargo S1 is SUPERB. I loved every minute. It's on Netflix IIRC.
I've S2 waiting for me - but it's a different cast and like True Detective - I'm wary of seeing another great start ruined. I didn't bother past E3 of TD2. It was boring and dire.nigel4england said:
Is Fargo any good, me and the missus are looking for something decent to download.Plato_Says said:Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.
I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.HYUFD said:
Well at least you now know who Robert Webb isPlato_Says said:I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.
HYUFD said:
Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David MitchellPlato_Says said:I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.
rottenborough said:I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?
"Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."
Pass the popcorn!
Meantime you'll enjoy this:
ttp://youtu.be/ZtgPeNKpnyw0 -
Yes, a dinosaur is my impression on the face of it too. But it is difficult to ignore all those international surveys that place the NHS, if not quite as the best health service in the world, then certainly one of the most efficient and a major source of competetive advantage for the UK economy. I had a family member who sold office furniture into the NHS and I have had dealings and NHS efficiency doesn't quite compute, it makes you wonder quite how crushingly inefficient everyone else's health systems are, but it is difficult to refute.chestnut said:
The NHS is, regrettably, stuck in the 20th century. It's the last of the great dinosaur bureaucracies.bigjohnowls said:
When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pocketschestnut said:
700,000 support staff.bigjohnowls said:190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes
Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
#Conflictofinterest
I have had personal cause to deal with it in two different capacities - one as a patient - in the last six months.
I see processes, behaviours and communications which have no place in the 21st century; things that other less zealously defended parts of the public sector consigned to the dustbin twenty years ago.
I half expect to encounter people with quill pens and ink wells.
I'd target a 350,000 reduction in it's support payroll.
If you're a PB Tory you've got the additional mindset of private better than public to get past in computing this, which tends to ignore the amount of makework that goes on in many large corporates even as they cost cut.
To my mind the 4% vs 5% private NHS the Tories rolled out at GE was on something that is 'tbc'. Many of the Lansley reforms only took effect fairly late in the last parliament, and the CCGs spent the first year of their existence mostly merging with one another. As such, the privatisation or not question is still to be answered imho, and seems to have mainly touched the community health sector (which could well now engage even more enthusiastically in a social care sector style race to the bottom). The reforms remain a gamble on the scale of at least a couple of percent of GDP if they don't progress well, but there is still a lot of scope to be had in improving working practices.
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Drs are well known baby eaters unlike youselfwatford30 said:
And doctors training up at the taxpayers expense, before legging it overseas to fatten up their wallets.Plato_Says said:Given that Mr Owls retired early, on a fat pension shows how taxpayers money is being drained from the NHS by no-longer-present-expenpushers.
DaemonBarber said:
not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.OldKingCole said:
Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.DaemonBarber said:Re the NHS.
BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?
Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.
One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.
and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and you £1 has gone up above inflation.0 -
I worked at BT when they shed 100000 staff - we could've lost another 30k and still not noticed.watford30 said:
It's hard to believe there's no scope to change working practices, or shift patterns. Maybe doing things differently rather than "that's how we've always done it". Or perhaps getting rid of deadwood staff. There's no way all 1 million plus employees are working to their full capabilities, or are even any good.bigjohnowls said:
I thinh i would agree that was possible if the internal market were abandoned.chestnut said:
The NHS is, regrettably, stuck in the 20th century. It's the last of the great dinosaur bureaucracies.bigjohnowls said:
When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pocketschestnut said:
700,000 support staff.bigjohnowls said:190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes
Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
#Conflictofinterest
I have personal cause to deal with it in two different capacities - one as a patient - in the last six months.
I see processes, behaviours and communications which have no place in the 21st century; things that other less zealously defended parts of the public sector consigned to the dustbin twenty years ago.
I half expect to encounter people with quill pens and ink wells.
I'd target a 350,000 reduction in it's support payroll.
Majority of Admin Staff are at Commissioners, NHS England outposts,localities etc.
At least 30% of Finance staff in a hospital are prating about negotiating, raising invoices paying invoices, accounting for, the internal market that the reforms made worse.
Commissioners fine Acutes for missing targets they admit are not within the power of the Provider to meet in order to neet their own NHS Eng. target on fines.
Its a complete mess
Try looking here
GPs award £2.4bn deals to their own companies | The Times 11/11/150 -
hasn't the left been dealt the "liberal" tag by the (US) media as a perjorative term?Cyclefree said:
Just as Islamism seems to have perverted Islam or is a perversion of it, so the Left, by claiming the word "liberal" has perverted what liberalism truly is. It is time for the rest of us to wrest liberal values - real liberal values - back from the left.
Meanwhile are there any liberals left? Consensus here seems to be all about sod the principles, on with the phone tapping, drone executions, shoot to kill etc. because ISIS.
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All you can do is blaim other people rather than make I work yourself.bigjohnowls said:
Is that your solution to the current crisis? Or are you now as bad as Watford 30 (I thought you were better than that)Plato_Says said:Given that Mr Owls retired early, on a fat pension shows how taxpayers money is being drained from the NHS by no-longer-present-expenpushers.
DaemonBarber said:
not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.OldKingCole said:
Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.DaemonBarber said:Re the NHS.
BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?
Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.
One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.
and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and you £1 has gone up above inflation.
NHS remuneration packages have been affordable for 70 years and (reduced by 20% in real terms in the past 6 years.)
Yet the crisis gets worse.
Again I think you need to look at the internal market as to why pen pushing is more prevalant than it could be but less than 3% of my hospitals wage bill was spent on Admin staff.0 -
I think you need to calm down and not get over excited. Labour was in far worse state when Foot and Benn were at their peak and major figures like Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams and David Owen left the party to set up a new one. They were being beaten in the polls not just by the Tories but by the LIBSDP Alliance as well. At the end of all that they elected Blair as leader and went on to win 3 GEs in a row.watford30 said:
All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.Richard_Nabavi said:Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.
...snip...
There will remain a strong residual support for Labour - I could easily imagine Corbyn going before 2020 and someone like Dan Jarvis becoming leader and Labour bouncing back towards 40% in the polls. As I said yesterday I would currently vote Tory if there were a GE tomorrow but could easily see myself switching back at some time in the future.
If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
The current situation is bad but I don't thing you have enough understanding of the Labour Party to undertake any sort of meaningful analysis as what that means longterm.0 -
Just told you how to do it,watford30 said:
It's hard to believe there's no scope to change working practices, or shift patterns. Maybe doing things differently rather than "that's how we've always done it". Or perhaps getting rid of deadwood staff. There's no way all 1 million plus employees are working to their full capabilities, or are even any good.bigjohnowls said:
I thinh i would agree that was possible if the internal market were abandoned.chestnut said:
The NHS is, regrettably, stuck in the 20th century. It's the last of the great dinosaur bureaucracies.bigjohnowls said:
When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pocketschestnut said:
700,000 support staff.bigjohnowls said:190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes
Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
#Conflictofinterest
I have personal cause to deal with it in two different capacities - one as a patient - in the last six months.
I see processes, behaviours and communications which have no place in the 21st century; things that other less zealously defended parts of the public sector consigned to the dustbin twenty years ago.
I half expect to encounter people with quill pens and ink wells.
I'd target a 350,000 reduction in it's support payroll.
Majority of Admin Staff are at Commissioners, NHS England outposts,localities etc.
At least 30% of Finance staff in a hospital are prating about negotiating, raising invoices paying invoices, accounting for, the internal market that the reforms made worse.
Commissioners fine Acutes for missing targets they admit are not within the power of the Provider to meet in order to neet their own NHS Eng. target on fines.
Its a complete mess
Try looking here
GPs award £2.4bn deals to their own companies | The Times 11/11/15
Get rid of the internal market.
Would save billions.
We are currently heading in completely the opposite direction thanks to Lansley.
Have to say Milburn started all this and in my eyes is as culpable as anybody but Lansley reforms took it to a whole new level.0 -
Corbyn is still within his first 100 days. At what point does Corbyn Labour become worse than Foot's regime at its denouement?OllyT said:
I think you need to calm down and not get over excited. Labour was in far worse state when Foot and Benn were at their peak and major figures like Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams and David Owen left the party to set up a new one. They were being beaten in the polls not just by the Tories but by the LIBSDP Alliance as well. At the end of all that they elected Blair as leader and went on to win 3 GEs in a row.watford30 said:
All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.Richard_Nabavi said:Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.
...snip...
There will remain a strong residual support for Labour - I could easily imagine Corbyn going before 2020 and someone like Dan Jarvis becoming leader and Labour bouncing back towards 40% in the polls. As I said yesterday I would currently vote Tory if there were a GE tomorrow but could easily see myself switching back at some time in the future.
If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
The current situation is bad but I don't thing you have enough understanding of the Labour Party to undertake any sort of meaningful analysis as what that means longterm.0 -
'What makes it all so depressing for the majority of Labour MPs — who are moderate...'
I wonder how true that is really. Or is it just they say they are to try to get elected?
Granted there are plenty of valueless careerists in the PLP (as there are in the Tory PP as well) but I suspect the real problem most Labour MPs have with Corbyn and co. is that they are too honest about what they really think about key issues like the monarchy, nuclear weapons and even economic matters.0 -
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
AP reports that the Brussels-based Rezidor Hotel group that operates the Radisson Blu Hotel in Bamako says 125 guests and 13 employees are still in the hotel. This clashes with earlier reports that 80 of 170 hostages had been freed.
CNN is reporting that American special forces are assisting the local troops and UN in ending the siege.0 -
To misquote Blair, 100 days that felt like 100 years'Plato_Says said:Corbyn is still within his first 100 days. At what point does Corbyn Labour become worse than Foot's regime at its denouement?
OllyT said:
I think you need to calm down and not get over excited. Labour was in far worse state when Foot and Benn were at their peak and major figures like Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams and David Owen left the party to set up a new one. They were being beaten in the polls not just by the Tories but by the LIBSDP Alliance as well. At the end of all that they elected Blair as leader and went on to win 3 GEs in a row.watford30 said:
All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.Richard_Nabavi said:Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.
...snip...
There will remain a strong residual support for Labour - I could easily imagine Corbyn going before 2020 and someone like Dan Jarvis becoming leader and Labour bouncing back towards 40% in the polls. As I said yesterday I would currently vote Tory if there were a GE tomorrow but could easily see myself switching back at some time in the future.
If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
The current situation is bad but I don't thing you have enough understanding of the Labour Party to undertake any sort of meaningful analysis as what that means longterm.0 -
Or 100 Popcorn Evenings in Toryland
Pro_Rata said:
To misquote Blair, 100 days that felt like 100 years'Plato_Says said:Corbyn is still within his first 100 days. At what point does Corbyn Labour become worse than Foot's regime at its denouement?
OllyT said:
I think you need to calm down and not get over excited. Labour was in far worse state when Foot and Benn were at their peak and major figures like Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams and David Owen left the party to set up a new one. They were being beaten in the polls not just by the Tories but by the LIBSDP Alliance as well. At the end of all that they elected Blair as leader and went on to win 3 GEs in a row.watford30 said:
All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.Richard_Nabavi said:Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.
...snip...
There will remain a strong residual support for Labour - I could easily imagine Corbyn going before 2020 and someone like Dan Jarvis becoming leader and Labour bouncing back towards 40% in the polls. As I said yesterday I would currently vote Tory if there were a GE tomorrow but could easily see myself switching back at some time in the future.
If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
The current situation is bad but I don't thing you have enough understanding of the Labour Party to undertake any sort of meaningful analysis as what that means longterm.0 -
Mr Owls,bigjohnowls said:
Where things are slowly improving rather than deteriorating at an ever increasing pace?taffys said:NHS?
Just let me know if the left get too rowdy and I'll play the Wales card.
Might I suggest that discussion of the NHS would be far better if divorced from trying to score party political points.
The NHS is not the envy of the world, has some pretty shocking outcomes for patients when compared to other systems and far too much discussion of it is consumed by people making either political points or wrapped up in supplier (i.e. NHS Staff) interests.0 -
Agreed. You may as well not look at areas but categories of employment or lack of it. Anyone who smokes like a chimney from off the back of a lorry cigarettes bought down the pub is not going to be healthy.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst I agree with your main point, it's a bit silly of Jamie Jenkins to use Westminster and K & C as examples - they are extremely special cases with characteristics which distort the figures.AlastairMeeks said:Those gaps are just astounding and appalling.
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The new members weren't allowed to vote.OllyT said:If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
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The French have been busy, its unfortunate that these raids did not take place last Thursday.Plato_Says said:ISIS haven't been too clever keeping their cells as cells given all this.
More power to the French for blitzing here. I do like their SWATish moniker RAID - much better.SimonStClare said:Telegraph - "France has carried out 793 searches since state of emergency declared
The French interior ministry says they have carried out 793 searches, 107 arrests leading to 90 people being remanded in custody since the start of the state of emergency on Saturday.
In all, 174 weapons have been found, including 18 "weapons of war", along with 64 drugs seizures and 250,000 euros in cash. Some 164 people have been consigned to their residence.
On the night of Thursday alone, police carried out 182 new raids, 20 arrests and 17 people were remanded in custody. Some 76 weapons were seized."
They've been busy...0 -
Didn't Blair have the Bernie Ecclestone million pound, er, donation to deal with in his first 100 days? An event that he thought could have ended his premiership there and then (if the press hadn't been so supine and given him a free pass...)Pro_Rata said:
To misquote Blair, 100 days that felt like 100 years'Plato_Says said:Corbyn is still within his first 100 days. At what point does Corbyn Labour become worse than Foot's regime at its denouement?
OllyT said:
I think you need to calm down and not get over excited. Labour was in far worse state when Foot and Benn were at their peak and major figures like Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams and David Owen left the party to set up a new one. They were being beaten in the polls not just by the Tories but by the LIBSDP Alliance as well. At the end of all that they elected Blair as leader and went on to win 3 GEs in a row.watford30 said:
All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.Richard_Nabavi said:Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.
...snip...
There will remain a strong residual support for Labour - I could easily imagine Corbyn going before 2020 and someone like Dan Jarvis becoming leader and Labour bouncing back towards 40% in the polls. As I said yesterday I would currently vote Tory if there were a GE tomorrow but could easily see myself switching back at some time in the future.
If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
The current situation is bad but I don't thing you have enough understanding of the Labour Party to undertake any sort of meaningful analysis as what that means longterm.0 -
When I worked at the DoH, they ran a pilot subsidising fresh fruit/veg in local shops, for deprived areas with poor health outcomes.
Most of the fruit/veg spoiled as it wasn't bought. One can lead a horse to water and all that. The pilot runners were quite depressed that their do-gooding had no tangible impact. It wasn't a case of being deprived - it was a choice made by residents despite being hit over the head with advertising and incentives to change their ways.flightpath01 said:
Agreed. You may as well not look at areas but categories of employment or lack of it. Anyone who smokes like a chimney from off the back of a lorry cigarettes bought down the pub is not going to be healthy.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst I agree with your main point, it's a bit silly of Jamie Jenkins to use Westminster and K & C as examples - they are extremely special cases with characteristics which distort the figures.AlastairMeeks said:Those gaps are just astounding and appalling.
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Phuq's sake. I've already written a thread for Sunday and this contradicts that now.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
They are about as funny as Mappin and Webb.HYUFD said:
Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David MitchellPlato_Says said:I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.
rottenborough said:I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?
"Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."
Pass the popcorn!0 -
That helpful on the day the NHS published its worst ever deficit.Floater said:
Thanks god Labour not in power - how much were they going to cut the budget by again?bigjohnowls said:190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes
Acute providers have been given a circa 2.5% budget uplift but a 4% budget CIP for years now.
ie a 1.5% reduction year after year
The result is an Acute Trust has less income to deal with 40% more patients. GPs have fared a little better.
The cost of regulation has increased by 80% over the same time.
Monitor has doubled its staff over the same time.
The moneys going on the internal market for one organisation to fine another at the insistance of NHS England who regulate Commissioners but not Providers
It is complete madness the reforms have made it much much worse. Commissioners employing fine Administrators instead of more patient care staff in the provider hospital.
It has to stop the taxpayer is being royally screwed by the internal market0 -
This article notes the rumours that Boris will back Out.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
Didn't Labour write Bernie a cheque that was never cashed to *return* it?MarqueeMark said:
Didn't Blair have the Bernie Ecclestone million pound, er, donation to deal with in his first 100 days? An event that he thought could have ended his premiership there and then (if the press hadn't been so supine and given him a free pass...)Pro_Rata said:
To misquote Blair, 100 days that felt like 100 years'Plato_Says said:Corbyn is still within his first 100 days. At what point does Corbyn Labour become worse than Foot's regime at its denouement?
OllyT said:
I think you need to calm down and not get over excited. Labour was in far worse state when Foot and Benn were at their peak and major figures like Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams and David Owen left the party to set up a new one. They were being beaten in the polls not just by the Tories but by the LIBSDP Alliance as well. At the end of all that they elected Blair as leader and went on to win 3 GEs in a row.watford30 said:
All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.Richard_Nabavi said:Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.
...snip...
There will remain a strong residual support for Labour - I could easily imagine Corbyn going before 2020 and someone like Dan Jarvis becoming leader and Labour bouncing back towards 40% in the polls. As I said yesterday I would currently vote Tory if there were a GE tomorrow but could easily see myself switching back at some time in the future.
If its "all too late" how do you explain an inner city northern seat like Oldham West and Royton selecting a by-election candidate that supported Liz Kendall in the leadership race.
The current situation is bad but I don't thing you have enough understanding of the Labour Party to undertake any sort of meaningful analysis as what that means longterm.0 -
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Theresa May would be by far the bigger prize for Out, and it would give her a real chance of succeeding DC, regardless of result. The Nigel & Boris show(s) ain't going to cut it.rottenborough said:
This article notes the rumours that Boris will back Out.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
Maybe you'll have to dust off that AV thread instead...TheScreamingEagles said:
Phuq's sake. I've already written a thread for Sunday and this contradicts that now.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
I wish there was a market on which side Boris Johnson will ultimately back. I am very confident that he will ultimately back In.rottenborough said:
This article notes the rumours that Boris will back Out.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
A big problem for the NHS is discharging people where they have no one to look after them.rottenborough said:
Stop burdening the NHS with social care of elderly when it should be being properly done by another arm of government with proper social/private insurance for long-term elderly needs.MaxPB said:
Fire 50% of the managers.bigjohnowls said:
What is your solution?DaemonBarber said:
and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?bigjohnowls said:NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html
Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people and looking at prescription charges for type 2 diabetics.
This is one of the NHS's biggest problems IMHO and frankly it is an f**ing disgrace that successive governments have got away with doing practically nothing about it except cut local government funding. We need a grown up conversation with the public about funding this is some sensible way.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006988/Mali-Bamako-terrorist-attack-170-hostages-Paris-live.html#update-20151120-1414
US special forces moving people to safety
Mikado FM, a Malian radio station, is reporting that 22 people, mostly of Indian nationality, have been taken out of the hotel. Seven Algerians have also been freed. A witness has told Reuters that heavy gunfire from inside the hotel has been heard.
Meanwhile, a security source has told Reuters that the Maly hotel gunmen have dug in on the building's seventh floor as special forces advance.0 -
In an upcoming threadTissue_Price said:
Theresa May would be by far the bigger prize for Out, and it would give her a real chance of succeeding DC, regardless of result. The Nigel & Boris show(s) ain't going to cut it.rottenborough said:
This article notes the rumours that Boris will back Out.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else
"Picture it, Theresa May, the woman who has been in charge of reducing immigration for the last six years resigns and goes on tv and says the only way to cut immigration is to leave the EU. I can see a lot of undecided voters thinking, "Then I saw her face now I'm a be leaver, Not a trace. Of doubt in my mind"0 -
Don't want to put the DavidL mockers on him, but jeez, Jos Buttler is back in form.0
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And that is why I expect Boris Johnson to back In. He's more valuable to the In side than he would be to the Out side. As you say, for Theresa May the reverse is true.Tissue_Price said:
Theresa May would be by far the bigger prize for Out, and it would give her a real chance of succeeding DC, regardless of result. The Nigel & Boris show(s) ain't going to cut it.rottenborough said:
This article notes the rumours that Boris will back Out.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
One of the Sunday threads features a discussion about AV and the benefits of it.Lennon said:
Maybe you'll have to dust off that AV thread instead...TheScreamingEagles said:
Phuq's sake. I've already written a thread for Sunday and this contradicts that now.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else0 -
The OECD, a week or so ago, described it as one the worst healthcare systems in the developed world.Pro_Rata said:Yes, a dinosaur is my impression on the face of it too. But it is difficult to ignore all those international surveys that place the NHS, if not quite as the best health service in the world, then certainly one of the most efficient and a major source of competetive advantage for the UK economy.
My perspective is nothing to do with a public/private distinction. It's built on a distinction between efficient and inefficient from a lengthy spell troubleshooting in the public sector (as an employee, not external consultant).Pro_Rata said:If you're a PB Tory you've got the additional mindset of private better than public to get past in computing this,
I see the same basic problems that I was encountering elsewhere ten and twenty years ago.
It amazes me that processes and inefficiencies I've long since seen disowned elsewhere are still live and kicking in the health service.0 -
The things you hear on PB ....Plato_Says said:Does anyone else donate to Wikipedia? I'm being touched up again by Jimmy Wales.
0 -
Matt Holehouse
EU interior ministers agree PNR tracking inside Europe, 1 year data retention
Commission backs down to French fury. Schengen code to be rewritten so every person entering EU will have full terror and crim record check
0 -
Completely offtopic, but good evening from the cricket in Dubai. A very good evening for England's batsmen, who are over 300 and about to set a ground record score with three overs left.
0 -
Great in theory but will this be enforced in eg Greece?
Schengen will have to retreat to something like a Charlemagnic frontier to be effective0 -
I am afraid Mr Blind is not really addressing the issue, he is only saying he wishes Corbyn was a bit brighter.
Quoting Hitchens as a proxy for his anti war views does not fool me. How can Blind or Hitchens know that spending money on security services has not stopped terrorist attacks and made us safer. Is Blind trying to say we should not have killed jihadi john? Then he is no better than Corbyn.
Another miserable appeasing article.0 -
Thats not even a sentence but I have said IMO the internal market is one of the main problems.flightpath01 said:
All you can do is blaim other people rather than make I work yourself.bigjohnowls said:
Is that your solution to the current crisis? Or are you now as bad as Watford 30 (I thought you were better than that)Plato_Says said:Given that Mr Owls retired early, on a fat pension shows how taxpayers money is being drained from the NHS by no-longer-present-expenpushers.
DaemonBarber said:
not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.OldKingCole said:
Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.DaemonBarber said:Re the NHS.
BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?
Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.
One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.
and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and you £1 has gone up above inflation.
NHS remuneration packages have been affordable for 70 years and (reduced by 20% in real terms in the past 6 years.)
Yet the crisis gets worse.
Again I think you need to look at the internal market as to why pen pushing is more prevalant than it could be but less than 3% of my hospitals wage bill was spent on Admin staff.
It was Introduced by Labour.
PFI is a huge problem in 10% of organiations with overspends
It was Introduced by Labour.
I blaim both main parties for the silly way the internal market skews priorities and eats resources that should be spent on patient care. I blaim Labour more than the Tories for the way PFI mortgaged the future.
All i can say and i expect you will disagree but i dont really care, is the latest reforms made matters significantly worse.
That is to any sensible conclusion that anyone can reach IMO.
Anyway Im off now to wheel Mrs BJ about.0 -
Depends what you, or Jezza for that matter, thinks Lab should look like.TheScreamingEagles said:I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.
I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
The Lab of last May will look nothing like the Lab of next May so maybe he has been a much needed shot in the arm for (Jezza's view of) Lab.0 -
I do. Not a huge amount but a bit.Plato_Says said:Does anyone else donate to Wikipedia? I'm being touched up again by Jimmy Wales.
0 -
They should look like a credible opposition.TOPPING said:
Depends what you, or Jezza for that matter, thinks Lab should look like.TheScreamingEagles said:I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.
I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
The Lab of last May will look nothing like the Lab of next May so maybe he has been a much needed shot in the arm for (Jezza's view of) Lab.
Yesterday close to 100% of those Docs taking part voted to strike, what were Labour discussing, whether their Shadow Chancellor wanted to abolish MI5.
On the day of the tax credits vote, what were Labour discussing, why Corbyn hadn't sung God Save The Queen the day before.0 -
SecondedPlato_Says said:May I suggest you pen a thread on a few topics? They'd only take up as much time as the well thought out regular posts you already make here, and certainly welcomed by many.
PS I haven't seen you post about the HBOS news from yesterday - that'd be interesting to see.Cyclefree said:Aargh! The curse of the new thread.
In response to those on the previous thread commenting about why the left has such a blind spot about Islamism, I posted this - and I make no apologies about posting it again, given that Corbyn - whose blind spots would fill a whole galaxy - is the subject of the thread.
Albert Camus explained it very well:-
"Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood. That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything."
Tony Judt, a marvellous (and, sadly, late) historian also described the phenomenon:-
"Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."
I think that we have to face the fact that for some on the Left, Islamism has precisely this attraction, even if the Left deludes itself into thinking this is all about them being against racism and intolerance.
Just as Islamism seems to have perverted Islam or is a perversion of it, so the Left, by claiming the word "liberal" has perverted what liberalism truly is. It is time for the rest of us to wrest liberal values - real liberal values - back from the left.0 -
Microsoft Windows 1.0 was released 30 years ago today. https://t.co/cY5LO3q3Mg https://t.co/CxsMMUPvoL https://t.co/89fiuTDoPU0
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I presume you mean the much quoted survey by the Commonwealth Fund last year that found that the NHS came top out of 11 first world countries.Pro_Rata said:
Yes, a dinosaur is my impression on the face of it too. But it is difficult to ignore all those international surveys that place the NHS, if not quite as the best health service in the world, then certainly one of the most efficient and a major source of competetive advantage for the UK economy. I had a family member who sold office furniture into the NHS and I have had dealings and NHS efficiency doesn't quite compute, it makes you wonder quite how crushingly inefficient everyone else's health systems are, but it is difficult to refute.
Except of course it came top in things like keeping patients informed and controlling its drug usage.
It came second to bottom in terms of clinical outcomes - actually keeping people alive, stopping them get ill or helping them get better. Forgive me but I would have thought that was the primary aim of the NHS.
That kind of sums up what is wrong with the whole system, where success is measured by inputs rather than results.
0 -
Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html0 -
Hitchens was saying the same, I think?flightpath01 said:Is Blind trying to say we should not have killed jihadi john? .
Killing jihadi john was irrelevant, as was killing Bin Laden.
0 -
rottenborough said:
» show previous quotes
Stop burdening the NHS with social care of elderly when it should be being properly done by another arm of government with proper social/private insurance for long-term elderly needs.
This is one of the NHS's biggest problems IMHO and frankly it is an f**ing disgrace that successive governments have got away with doing practically nothing about it except cut local government funding. We need a grown up conversation with the public about funding this is some sensible way.
100% correct0 -
but, as Hitchens also said, of course it's not difficult to be happy they are deaddugarbandier said:
Hitchens was saying the same, I think?flightpath01 said:Is Blind trying to say we should not have killed jihadi john? .
Killing jihadi john was irrelevant, as was killing Bin Laden.0 -
Trouble is I think you will turn out to be a Daydream Be Leaver :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
In an upcoming threadTissue_Price said:
Theresa May would be by far the bigger prize for Out, and it would give her a real chance of succeeding DC, regardless of result. The Nigel & Boris show(s) ain't going to cut it.rottenborough said:
This article notes the rumours that Boris will back Out.Tissue_Price said:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-and-may-overtake-osborne-in-tory-race-to-succeed-cameron-a3119676.html
I have been backing May lately, currently green on her / GO / Sajid, red on everyone else
"Picture it, Theresa May, the woman who has been in charge of reducing immigration for the last six years resigns and goes on tv and says the only way to cut immigration is to leave the EU. I can see a lot of undecided voters thinking, "Then I saw her face now I'm a be leaver, Not a trace. Of doubt in my mind"0 -
'Kin Hell, Jos Buttler scores 104 of 46 balls, new England ODI record.0
-
Very true
A crisis reveals all your weaknesses. Disrupting the normal run of events, it demands quick responses which themselves, in turn, rely on sound judgment. Leadership is tested – and the public see in an instant whether you are up to it.
The Paris attacks were France's 9/11. A murderous assault of that nature demands a response that rises to match the scale and horror of what happened. Parisians rose to it showing a fragile and tentative bravery that demonstrated that to the motto "liberte, egalite, fraternise" had been added a new word "solidarite". Francois Hollande rose to it too with his political, policing and military response as to this "act of war"...
And Jeremy Corbyn? He showed once more that he never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html0 -
Indeed. In my view we really need a huge conversation about changing the whole way in which the NHS is structured and how it works with non-NHS services. It still seems to have a mindset of dealing with discrete problems and then discharging. Where it still does this it seems to work reasonably well (Maternity, 'traditional' A&E as a couple of examples).flightpath01 said:
A big problem for the NHS is discharging people where they have no one to look after them.rottenborough said:
Stop burdening the NHS with social care of elderly when it should be being properly done by another arm of government with proper social/private insurance for long-term elderly needs.MaxPB said:
Fire 50% of the managers.bigjohnowls said:
What is your solution?DaemonBarber said:
and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?bigjohnowls said:NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html
Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people and looking at prescription charges for type 2 diabetics.
This is one of the NHS's biggest problems IMHO and frankly it is an f**ing disgrace that successive governments have got away with doing practically nothing about it except cut local government funding. We need a grown up conversation with the public about funding this is some sensible way.
Where there are issues seem to be in how we deal with long-term illness and illness associated with old age. The mandate of a hospital seems to be to get the elderly patient 'well enough' to discharge - but actually where are they being discharged to - what extra support needs to be in place - what could have been put in place to aid and prevent them having to go to hospital in the first place? But the bulk of this then falls onto Local Government and the social care budget, when a holistic approach in this area would be massively more beneficial, and the only way in which we can really move forward given the demographics of the country.0 -
Buttler 104 from 46 balls, Eng 336/5 from 490
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Astonishing, absolutely amazingTheScreamingEagles said:'Kin Hell, Jos Buttler scores 104 of 46 balls, new England ODI record.
0 -
Might just be going to SA?TheScreamingEagles said:'Kin Hell, Jos Buttler scores 104 of 46 balls, new England ODI record.
0 -
tbf don't think it was labour discussing those thingsTheScreamingEagles said:
They should look like a credible opposition.TOPPING said:
Depends what you, or Jezza for that matter, thinks Lab should look like.TheScreamingEagles said:I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.
I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
The Lab of last May will look nothing like the Lab of next May so maybe he has been a much needed shot in the arm for (Jezza's view of) Lab.
Yesterday close to 100% of those Docs taking part voted to strike, what were Labour discussing, whether their Shadow Chancellor wanted to abolish MI5.
On the day of the tax credits vote, what were Labour discussing, why Corbyn hadn't sung God Save The Queen the day before.0 -
Oh come on, "Homeopathic A&E" is a brilliant sketch. And how about this one:flightpath01 said:
They are about as funny as Mappin and Webb.HYUFD said:
Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David MitchellPlato_Says said:I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.
rottenborough said:I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?
"Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."
Pass the popcorn!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY0 -
Three more German polls, showing a slight CDU upswing but the position essentially unchanged:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/0 -
The three quickest ODI hundreds for England have all been scored by him.nigel4england said:
Astonishing, absolutely amazingTheScreamingEagles said:'Kin Hell, Jos Buttler scores 104 of 46 balls, new England ODI record.
0 -
Her combined autobio/poker book is an excellent read.Floater said:
She also plays poker - whats not to likeSimonStClare said:
Victoria Coren is delightful – but disturbingly bright. they make a good pair.nigel4england said:
His wife is very pleasant though!Plato_Says said:I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.
HYUFD said:
Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David MitchellPlato_Says said:I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.
rottenborough said:I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?
"Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."
Pass the popcorn!
0 -
And he beat the second best by 15 ballsTheScreamingEagles said:
The three quickest ODI hundreds for England have all been scored by him.nigel4england said:
Astonishing, absolutely amazingTheScreamingEagles said:'Kin Hell, Jos Buttler scores 104 of 46 balls, new England ODI record.
0 -
"Oldham West is, by any measure, one of the safest Labour seats in the country. Do not be surprised by an earthquake there."Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
Tally Ho. I'm on UKIP at 5.50 -
Already goingThomasNashe said:
Might just be going to SA?TheScreamingEagles said:'Kin Hell, Jos Buttler scores 104 of 46 balls, new England ODI record.
0 -
As my dear old grandmother used to say, now is not the time for logic.TheScreamingEagles said:
They should look like a credible opposition.TOPPING said:
Depends what you, or Jezza for that matter, thinks Lab should look like.TheScreamingEagles said:I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.
I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
The Lab of last May will look nothing like the Lab of next May so maybe he has been a much needed shot in the arm for (Jezza's view of) Lab.
Yesterday close to 100% of those Docs taking part voted to strike, what were Labour discussing, whether their Shadow Chancellor wanted to abolish MI5.
On the day of the tax credits vote, what were Labour discussing, why Corbyn hadn't sung God Save The Queen the day before.
You might think they should look like a credible opposition but who are you to dictate what the Labour Party should look like? The people who voted in and are being recruited by Jezza evidently think something else. And them's the ones that matter right now.0 -
Fantastic last 10 overs from England! 350 up!
Did Buttler get some sort of a record? No commentary in the ground!
Edit: 355/5 from the 50 overs. Good luck to Pakistan getting that many!0 -
You are very kind.Plato_Says said:May I suggest you pen a thread on a few topics? They'd only take up as much time as the well thought out regular posts you already make here, and certainly welcomed by many.
PS I haven't seen you post about the HBOS news from yesterday - that'd be interesting to see.Cyclefree said:Aargh! The curse of the new thread.
In response to those on the previous thread commenting about why the left has such a blind spot about Islamism, I posted this - and I make no apologies about posting it again, given that Corbyn - whose blind spots would fill a whole galaxy - is the subject of the thread.
Albert Camus explained it very well:-
"Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood. That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything."
Tony Judt, a marvellous (and, sadly, late) historian also described the phenomenon:-
"Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."
I think that we have to face the fact that for some on the Left, Islamism has precisely this attraction, even if the Left deludes itself into thinking this is all about them being against racism and intolerance.
Just as Islamism seems to have perverted Islam or is a perversion of it, so the Left, by claiming the word "liberal" has perverted what liberalism truly is. It is time for the rest of us to wrest liberal values - real liberal values - back from the left.
I am still digesting HBOS, in a manner of speaking.
0 -
The country needs a strong opposition to ensure proper scrutiny of the government.TOPPING said:
As my dear old grandmother used to say, now is not the time for logic.TheScreamingEagles said:
They should look like a credible opposition.TOPPING said:
Depends what you, or Jezza for that matter, thinks Lab should look like.TheScreamingEagles said:I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.
I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
The Lab of last May will look nothing like the Lab of next May so maybe he has been a much needed shot in the arm for (Jezza's view of) Lab.
Yesterday close to 100% of those Docs taking part voted to strike, what were Labour discussing, whether their Shadow Chancellor wanted to abolish MI5.
On the day of the tax credits vote, what were Labour discussing, why Corbyn hadn't sung God Save The Queen the day before.
You might think they should look like a credible opposition but who are you to dictate what the Labour Party should look like? The people who voted in and are being recruited by Jezza evidently think something else. And them's the ones that matter right now.0 -
Ah I used to teach those [and other similar] very figuresRichard_Tyndall said:
I remember from when I was doing my A level history that the average life expectancy in 1842 of a farm laborer in Rutland was 38 whilst that of a factory laborer in Manchester was 17.AlastairMeeks said:Illustrating the point that Sir John Major made a week or so ago:
Jamie Jenkins @statsjamie · 51m51 minutes ago
Women in parts of Birmingham live 46.1 years in good health - lowest in England http://ow.ly/USD6G
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQUV3RUEAAvk3X.png
Jamie Jenkins @statsjamie · 36m36 minutes ago
Women in parts of Westminster live 78.3 years in good health - highest in England http://ow.ly/USEzU
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQX8g8WUAA_ogm.png
Jamie Jenkins @statsjamie · 22m22 minutes ago
Men in parts of Salford live 46.3 years in good health - lowest in England http://ow.ly/USH89
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQblYZU8AAannc.png
Jamie Jenkins @statsjamie · 1h1 hour ago
Men in parts of Kensington & Chelsea live 80.2 years in good health - highest in England http://ow.ly/USAwD
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQQpfiWcAEKez6.png
Those gaps are just astounding and appalling. 0 -
and who says it has to be the Labour Party?TheScreamingEagles said:
The country needs a strong opposition to ensure proper scrutiny of the government.TOPPING said:
As my dear old grandmother used to say, now is not the time for logic.TheScreamingEagles said:
They should look like a credible opposition.TOPPING said:
Depends what you, or Jezza for that matter, thinks Lab should look like.TheScreamingEagles said:I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.
I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
The Lab of last May will look nothing like the Lab of next May so maybe he has been a much needed shot in the arm for (Jezza's view of) Lab.
Yesterday close to 100% of those Docs taking part voted to strike, what were Labour discussing, whether their Shadow Chancellor wanted to abolish MI5.
On the day of the tax credits vote, what were Labour discussing, why Corbyn hadn't sung God Save The Queen the day before.
You might think they should look like a credible opposition but who are you to dictate what the Labour Party should look like? The people who voted in and are being recruited by Jezza evidently think something else. And them's the ones that matter right now.0 -
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?0 -
Nail on head - just look at the NPXMP Corbyn butterfly who has emerged since May from the pupa that backed Blair and Brown to the hilt!runnymede said:'What makes it all so depressing for the majority of Labour MPs — who are moderate...'
I wonder how true that is really. Or is it just they say they are to try to get elected?
Granted there are plenty of valueless careerists in the PLP (as there are in the Tory PP as well) but I suspect the real problem most Labour MPs have with Corbyn and co. is that they are too honest about what they really think about key issues like the monarchy, nuclear weapons and even economic matters.0 -
An innocent mistake. They thought they were signing autographs for a fan.Richard_Nabavi said:
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?0 -
What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.Richard_Nabavi said:
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?0 -
It will need to be killed, plucked, stuffed, roasted, and served to them on a plate.Richard_Nabavi said:And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?
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The IRA? Friends from the East?Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
Richard_Nabavi said:
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?
'Sources close to McDonnell suggested his name might have been included in the list because of a cut and paste error.'
Ha Ha.0 -
It will've been genetically modified by Mossad and the CIA.glw said:
It will need to be killed, plucked, stuffed, roasted, and served to them on a plate.Richard_Nabavi said:And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?
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MI5 were at the front line of defeating the IRA, there are some pretty nasty allegations of what MI5 did in Northern Ireland.Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
Richard_Nabavi said:
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?
No wonder he wants them disbanding0 -
Oh, because they are stuck in the 1970s and 1980s when MI5 was trying to foil the IRA, which they supported.Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
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They naturally assume they are on an MI5 list somewhere. And not in a good way.watford30 said:
The IRA? Friends from the East?Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
Richard_Nabavi said:
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?0 -
@NHoultCricket: Buttler went from 50 to 100 in 16 balls: .4246641421.62660
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A tweet of relevance to those betting on Oldham West & Royton:
Jim Pickard @PickardJE · 1m1 minute ago
Labour MPs reporting even more negative feedback than usual from white working class voters in Oldham West - especially this week.
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Well quite.TOPPING said:
They naturally assume they are on an MI5 list somewhere. And not in a good way.watford30 said:
The IRA? Friends from the East?Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
Richard_Nabavi said:
A snippet in that article on something which I'd missed:Floater said:Snigger
"The Labour Party has just had its worst week ever. Worst week ever, that is, since last week. And worst week ever, probably, until next week. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html
The Sun unearthed the principles and demands of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour a Victory (SCLV). Among these were a call for MI5 to be disbanded and the police to be disarmed. Standard for the far Left, but of great interest because they were signed by both Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fisher and the Shadow Chancellor
And yet some Corbyn supporters still have their heads in the sand. What will it take before they accept that the duck is quacking because it's a duck?0 -
Seriously? – Surely there must be more to it than that.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, because they are stuck in the 1970s and 1980s when MI5 was trying to foil the IRA, which they supported.Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
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Fastest ever ton for an England player, and joint seventh fastest of all time.Sandpit said:Fantastic last 10 overs from England! 350 up!
Did Buttler get some sort of a record? No commentary in the ground!
Edit: 355/5 from the 50 overs. Good luck to Pakistan getting that many!0 -
Wow, was that an England ODI 100 record he got?TheScreamingEagles said:@NHoultCricket: Buttler went from 50 to 100 in 16 balls: .4246641421.6266
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What scale are we applying here? O_0AlastairMeeks said:
A tweet of relevance to those betting on Oldham West & Royton:
Jim Pickard @PickardJE · 1m1 minute ago
Labour MPs reporting even more negative feedback than usual from white working class voters in Oldham West - especially this week.0 -
Yes - I still believe in liberal principles. And there are others: DavidL is always thoughtful. A number of us have expressed concerns about this government's approach to civil liberties, even after Paris: Casino Royale, for instance.dugarbandier said:
hasn't the left been dealt the "liberal" tag by the (US) media as a perjorative term?Cyclefree said:
Just as Islamism seems to have perverted Islam or is a perversion of it, so the Left, by claiming the word "liberal" has perverted what liberalism truly is. It is time for the rest of us to wrest liberal values - real liberal values - back from the left.
Meanwhile are there any liberals left? Consensus here seems to be all about sod the principles, on with the phone tapping, drone executions, shoot to kill etc. because ISIS.
A policeman has always had the right to shoot to kill if he thought that there was a risk to life and, if something like Paris happened here, there is no question that if the British police did what the French forces did it would be lawful.
Corbyn got into deserved trouble on this because he was unable or unwilling to articulate simply the statement that the state has a duty to protect its citizens and that when a maniac is killing on the streets the only way to stop him is to kill him first.
Why he was unable to say this in words of one syllable is more interesting. There are it seems to me 3 possibilities:-
1. He is a moron wholly unable to express himself clearly.
2. He does not really think that the state should do what I have articulated because he is either:-
(a) overly concerned with the grievances of the terrorists; or
(b) thinks that if we are attacked it is somehow our fault; or
(c) is on the side of the terrorists; or
(d) is such a pacifist that he is prepared for people to die rather than compromise his principles.
3. The Malmesbury view - i.e. that he was thinking of "shoot to kill" in Northern Ireland terms only and simply could not or would not adjust his world view to take account of Islamist terror.
FWIW: I don't think it is (d). Nor do I think it is 1. He is an idiot but is well able to express himself clearly when he wants to. I think it's a combination of 2(a) and (b) and 3 but he has managed to give the impression that it could also be 2(c).0 -
The diplomatic residents of the Russian, Iranian et al embassies?SimonStClare said:
Seriously? – Surely there must be more to it than that.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, because they are stuck in the 1970s and 1980s when MI5 was trying to foil the IRA, which they supported.Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
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They probably also have a folk memory of MI5 and MI6 acting to protect the UK from the Soviet Union, their mother country in ideological terms.SimonStClare said:
Seriously? – Surely there must be more to it than that.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, because they are stuck in the 1970s and 1980s when MI5 was trying to foil the IRA, which they supported.Plato_Says said:What I find so curious is WHY they want Mi5 disbanded.
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Good afternoon, everyone.
Has Jezbollah declared a fatwa on MI5 yet?0
