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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Leader of the Opposition is the toughest job in British pol

SystemSystem Posts: 12,293
edited 2015 20 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Leader of the Opposition is the toughest job in British politics. If Jeremy didn’t know it before, he knows it now.

The Bishop of Chichester George Bell was celebrated in a BBC Radio Great Lives programme a couple of years ago for a wartime speech in the House of Lords condemning the bombing of German civilians. Bell was no pacifist but he argued that “ to justify methods inhumane in themselves by arguments of expediency smacks of the Nazi philosophy that Might is Right.” The speech was made in February 1944, months before Allied boots landed on the ground in Normandy.

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Comments

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited 2015 20
    The man's name is Jones, not Brennan...

    Corrected.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited 2015 20
    Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.

    Was Ken Livingstone's appointment badly handled? That depends on what you think the appointment was intended to achieve. If, as I think was the case, the appointment was intended to undermine, humiliate, and demoralise the Shadow Defence Secretary and others trying to hold the line against the Marxist infiltatrators who have taken over the party, then it was a great success.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Corbyn is just inept, there is no coherent strategy on any issue.

    The economy, police numbers, NHS, these are issues he should be hammering the government on, instead he is doing bizarre interviews where he talks about his personal hobbies and comes out with utter nonsense about shoot-to-kill (hey, I'm no fan of this policy but how else do you cope with a terrorist attack than by authorising the police to do whatever is necessary to protect public safety?).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    RodCrosby said:

    The man's name is Jones, not Brennan...

    Corrected.

    Fixed now, these things happen now and again
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited 2015 20
    The name is W .... JackW

    Cue stirring duet from Adele and Sam Smith
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Puppet master stuff for Corbyn too. He's not in charge of anything - it's Ken/McIRA and their cronies

    Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.

    Was Ken Livingstone's appointment badly handled? That depends on what you think the appointment was intended to achieve. If, as I think was the case, the appointment was intended to humiliate and demoralise the Shadow Defence Secretary and others trying to hold the line against the Marxist infiltatrators who have taken over the party, then it was a great success.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    As for the use of drones, it's seems rather optimistic to think that, if we don't use them, the jihadists won't if they get the chance.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited 2015 20
    Blimey, a Jeremy is Crap thread by Don Brind – I think I need a lie down.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.

    I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    If Corbyn genuinely believes in what he is saying and doing then he has my respect, but he must realise he'll never be PM, not enough share his views. This is from the Freedom Association website

    Seven Principles of a Free Society

    Individual Freedom
    Personal and Family Responsibility
    The Rule of Law
    Limited Government
    Free Market Economy
    National Parliamentary Democracy
    Strong National Defences

    I share those views but its unlikely I'll ever be PM either.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm getting the impression he doesn't like Ken too much.

    After skipping the first eight paragraphs, we got to a bit of meat.

    Blimey, a Jeremy is Crap thread by Don Brind – I think I need a lie down.

  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.

    I didn't think he would be wandering across the political landscape so ineptly. His whole brand is (or was) that he says what he thinks and is a conviction politician, instead on a whole bunch of issues he either doesn't have a stance, or he says something and then has to backtrack a day or two later.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.

    I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.

    Or in @Casino-Royale's Conservative circles all at once and twice on Sunday !!

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Reports the Mali attackers spoke English to one another...
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Looks like Don might be beginning to smell the coffee.

    ...snip...

    All too late. Even if Corbyn were to go now, the parasite that has taken over the Labour party and it's operations is too deeply embedded.

  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Reports the Mali attackers spoke English to one another...

    More brummy accents???
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I disagree with Don Brind that Ken Livingstone's appointment was a bad appointment and I disagree that Jeremy Corbyn handled it badly. Jeremy Corbyn is seeking to wrest control over the decision-making on Trident and he has chosen an effective route to achieve this.

    Ken Livingstone behaved appallingly, but the power grab was a smart idea from Jeremy Corbyn's perspective.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    We heard ages ago that Jezza doesn't do confrontation, he walks away or goes for Let's Chat About This.

    It's the hard-men around him that do all the bidding.
    DanSmith said:

    I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.

    I didn't think he would be wandering across the political landscape so ineptly. His whole brand is (or was) that he says what he thinks and is a conviction politician, instead on a whole bunch of issues he either doesn't have a stance, or he says something and then has to backtrack a day or two later.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    As for the use of drones, it's seems rather optimistic to think that, if we don't use them, the jihadists won't if they get the chance.

    A "Drone" seems a rather unkind reflection on Don Brind's thread about the Jezzbollah jihadists.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.
    Richard Murray, director of policy at The King's Fund, said: "Today's figures show the NHS is in the grip of an unprecedented financial meltdown.
    "Deficits on this scale cannot be attributed to mismanagement or inefficiency. Quite simply, it is no longer possible for the vast majority of NHS providers to maintain standards of care and balance their budgets.
    "If the Chancellor needed a wake-up call ahead of next week's Spending Review, this is it. The scale of the deficits provides yet more evidence that the additional funding promised by the government is needed sooner rather than later. If this is not forthcoming, the government should be honest with the public that the outcome will be an accelerating decline in standards of care."

    Awaits measured response (denial) from usual suspects especially to the 2nd paragraph
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 20
    80 of 170 hostages freed

    France's national gendarme service says about 50 elite police troops are en route from Paris to Bamako.

    A spokesman for the service who was not authorized to be publicly named said they are heading Friday from two different units of special police forces trained for emergency situations. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006988/Mali-Bamako-terrorist-attack-170-hostages-Paris-live.html#update-20151120-1222
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    JackW said:

    As for the use of drones, it's seems rather optimistic to think that, if we don't use them, the jihadists won't if they get the chance.

    A "Drone" seems a rather unkind reflection on Don Brind's thread about the Jezzbollah jihadists.

    Drones are probably the least of our worries, given that it appears ISIS may have chemical weapons, at least according to the French.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830

    I disagree with Don Brind that Ken Livingstone's appointment was a bad appointment and I disagree that Jeremy Corbyn handled it badly. Jeremy Corbyn is seeking to wrest control over the decision-making on Trident and he has chosen an effective route to achieve this.

    Ken Livingstone behaved appallingly, but the power grab was a smart idea from Jeremy Corbyn's perspective.

    I thought conference had made a decision on Trident and it now can't be revisited for two years?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    As for the use of drones, it's seems rather optimistic to think that, if we don't use them, the jihadists won't if they get the chance.

    A "Drone" seems a rather unkind reflection on Don Brind's thread about the Jezzbollah jihadists.

    Drones are probably the least of our worries, given that it appears ISIS may have chemical weapons, at least according to the French.
    Not a problem. Tony Blair can magic up a 45 minute warning for the nation.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    Performance crashes as NHS racks up £1.6bn half-year deficit
    www.nationalhealthexecutive.com/.../provider-performance-crashes-as-s...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    edited 2015 20

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.

    Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people and looking at prescription charges for type 2 diabetics.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659

    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.
    Richard Murray, director of policy at The King's Fund, said: "Today's figures show the NHS is in the grip of an unprecedented financial meltdown.
    "Deficits on this scale cannot be attributed to mismanagement or inefficiency. Quite simply, it is no longer possible for the vast majority of NHS providers to maintain standards of care and balance their budgets.
    "If the Chancellor needed a wake-up call ahead of next week's Spending Review, this is it. The scale of the deficits provides yet more evidence that the additional funding promised by the government is needed sooner rather than later. If this is not forthcoming, the government should be honest with the public that the outcome will be an accelerating decline in standards of care."

    Awaits measured response (denial) from usual suspects especially to the 2nd paragraph

    I don't know how the NHS runs but I have two comments to make:
    1. Any organisation which trains its own staff and then they leave and it employs them as temporary labour at vastly increased costs is grossly incompetent.

    2. I recently spent 36 hours in A&E. The medical care was great. But I have never seen any organisation where so many staff walk from one place to another and then back again over several hours. The logistics of the hospital appear rubbish. (or they are shirking: my prior experience is that people who walk around all the time tend to avoid work).

    and

    If an organisation is running out of money it sets priorities and saves money by not doing the least important tasks. From what I see, the NHS does not attempt to.

    Impressions only.. But no doubt you can tell me why I am wrong..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    What is needed us a coherent military strategy to defeat ISIS on the ground involving the FSA, the Kurds, Shia militias, Western special forces, neighbouring Arab nations and even Assad
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.
    They would appear to be rubbish at their job.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    HYUFD said:

    What is needed us a coherent military strategy to defeat ISIS on the ground involving the FSA, the Kurds, Shia militias, Western special forces, neighbouring Arab nations and even Assad

    Well, it certainly looks like the UN will not be blocking this kind of move, although you need to add Russian to the mix I think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135

    I thought Corbyn would be a disaster for Labour, but I didn't think it would be this bad, so soon.

    I thought he'd have a honeymoon for a while, but this is turning into the honeymoon where your wife finds out you've slept with her sister, best mate, and her mother, concurrently.

    He is polling about the same as IDS, if a little higher at this stage and IDS also won 60% of his party's membership
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.

    Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people and looking at prescription charges for type 2 diabetics.
    97% of Acutes are in deficit.

    Why be so lenient on the other 47% of managers
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 20

    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.
    Richard Murray, director of policy at The King's Fund, said: "Today's figures show the NHS is in the grip of an unprecedented financial meltdown.
    "Deficits on this scale cannot be attributed to mismanagement or inefficiency. Quite simply, it is no longer possible for the vast majority of NHS providers to maintain standards of care and balance their budgets.
    "If the Chancellor needed a wake-up call ahead of next week's Spending Review, this is it. The scale of the deficits provides yet more evidence that the additional funding promised by the government is needed sooner rather than later. If this is not forthcoming, the government should be honest with the public that the outcome will be an accelerating decline in standards of care."

    Awaits measured response (denial) from usual suspects especially to the 2nd paragraph

    ...snip..

    If an organisation is running out of money it sets priorities and saves money by not doing the least important tasks. From what I see, the NHS does not attempt to.

    The strategy seems to be one of carry on as per usual, racking up huge losses and deficits, whilst clamouring for more cash to fill the hole.

    I've spent time in the last month with a close relative who received shockingly awful treatment at the hands of the NHS.

    They'd have died without the outstanding care they received privately.

    And indifferent and uncaring Junior doctors have the brass neck to strike?!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    watford30 said:

    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.
    They would appear to be rubbish at their job.
    Like you at trolling TBF
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    You could double NHS spending and there'd still be problems, too many people spending other people's money. And too many still believe that NHS workers pay tax.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006988/Mali-Bamako-terrorist-attack-170-hostages-Paris-live.html#update-20151120-1247
    A building contractor who works at the Radisson hotel in Bamako has told the Daily Telegraph:

    "When I was going to the hotel in the morning, I saw people arriving in a diplomatic vehicle. There were three with guns. They killed the security guards oustide the hotel and took their weapons. And then they went inside. And I heard more shooting."

    The man then fled for his own safety.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes

    700,000 support staff.

    Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830
    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.

    Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people and looking at prescription charges for type 2 diabetics.
    Stop burdening the NHS with social care of elderly when it should be being properly done by another arm of government with proper social/private insurance for long-term elderly needs.

    This is one of the NHS's biggest problems IMHO and frankly it is an f**ing disgrace that successive governments have got away with doing practically nothing about it except cut local government funding. We need a grown up conversation with the public about funding this is some sensible way.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people ...
    Your name vill alzo go on zee list. Vot is it ?

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    watford30 said:

    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.
    Richard Murray, director of policy at The King's Fund, said: "Today's figures show the NHS is in the grip of an unprecedented financial meltdown.
    "Deficits on this scale cannot be attributed to mismanagement or inefficiency. Quite simply, it is no longer possible for the vast majority of NHS providers to maintain standards of care and balance their budgets.
    "If the Chancellor needed a wake-up call ahead of next week's Spending Review, this is it. The scale of the deficits provides yet more evidence that the additional funding promised by the government is needed sooner rather than later. If this is not forthcoming, the government should be honest with the public that the outcome will be an accelerating decline in standards of care."

    Awaits measured response (denial) from usual suspects especially to the 2nd paragraph

    ...snip..

    If an organisation is running out of money it sets priorities and saves money by not doing the least important tasks. From what I see, the NHS does not attempt to.

    The strategy seems to be one of carry on as per usual, racking up huge losses and deficits, whilst clamouring for more cash to fill the hole.
    £1.1bn of savings achieved so far from Acutes but dont let the facts affect your denial.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited 2015 20

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Best known for playing Jeremy in Peep Show.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.

    Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people and looking at prescription charges for type 2 diabetics.
    Stop burdening the NHS with social care of elderly when it should be being properly done by another arm of government with proper social/private insurance for long-term elderly needs.

    This is one of the NHS's biggest problems IMHO and frankly it is an f**ing disgrace that successive governments have got away with doing practically nothing about it except cut local government funding. We need a grown up conversation with the public about funding this is some sensible way.
    We have 10 million unemployed or economically inactive working age citizens.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    He is in the Peep Show, Channel 4 and many other things. He had a quite a high profile in the run-up to the election arguing for Lab e.g. writing articles and being on twitter and all that.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    Basically, to paraphrase Don: there are currently many opportunities for a decent, credible opposition to make a mark, to hold the government to account and to strike a chord with the electorate; but because Corbyn Labour is not a decent, credible opposition this is not happening.

    I agree completely.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Thanks - still no idea. I noticed that Peep Show is now on its final season in advertorials - not my cuppa tea.

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Best known for playing Jeremy in Peep Show.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135

    HYUFD said:

    What is needed is a coherent military strategy to defeat ISIS on the ground involving the FSA, the Kurds, Shia militias, Western special forces, neighbouring Arab nations and even Assad

    Well, it certainly looks like the UN will not be blocking this kind of move, although you need to add Russian to the mix I think.
    Yes they will have to be involved
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.
    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Basically, to paraphrase Don: there are currently many opportunities for a decent, credible opposition to make a mark, to hold the government to account and to strike a chord with the electorate; but because Corbyn Labour is not a decent, credible opposition this is not happening.

    I agree completely.

    Although I agree, what arguments SHOULD Labour be making?

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 20

    watford30 said:

    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.
    They would appear to be rubbish at their job.
    Like you at trolling TBF
    'Trolling' = Criticising your religion. The cult of the NHS.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited 2015 20
    Telegraph - "France has carried out 793 searches since state of emergency declared

    The French interior ministry says they have carried out 793 searches, 107 arrests leading to 90 people being remanded in custody since the start of the state of emergency on Saturday.

    In all, 174 weapons have been found, including 18 "weapons of war", along with 64 drugs seizures and 250,000 euros in cash. Some 164 people have been consigned to their residence.

    On the night of Thursday alone, police carried out 182 new raids, 20 arrests and 17 people were remanded in custody. Some 76 weapons were seized."

    They've been busy...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047
    Not all Corbyn's views are wrong, nor even his instincts. Some are, I feel, by a large margin, too many, but he's not without merit entirely. But his timing and nuance seem dreadful even when he has a point more than a select few would share, and he doesn't seem to know when lots might agree with him if he phrased it right and when virtually no one will no matter what, so he gets it wrong sometimes when he doesn't have to. Other times he cannot help it though when he is massively out of step with opinion. Not that public opinion is always right, but he genuinely seems unable to predict when his comments will be supported widely or not, as like most extremists he seems to think everything he says is supported by all right thinking people, even when electorally that is not backed up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,830

    Basically, to paraphrase Don: there are currently many opportunities for a decent, credible opposition to make a mark, to hold the government to account and to strike a chord with the electorate; but because Corbyn Labour is not a decent, credible opposition this is not happening.

    I agree completely.

    Although I agree, what arguments SHOULD Labour be making?

    NHS for a start. Tories can't blame anyone else now. They've had five years and a massive re-org.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    ISIS haven't been too clever keeping their cells as cells given all this.

    More power to the French for blitzing here. I do like their SWATish moniker RAID - much better.

    Telegraph - "France has carried out 793 searches since state of emergency declared

    The French interior ministry says they have carried out 793 searches, 107 arrests leading to 90 people being remanded in custody since the start of the state of emergency on Saturday.

    In all, 174 weapons have been found, including 18 "weapons of war", along with 64 drugs seizures and 250,000 euros in cash. Some 164 people have been consigned to their residence.

    On the night of Thursday alone, police carried out 182 new raids, 20 arrests and 17 people were remanded in custody. Some 76 weapons were seized."

    They've been busy...

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Illustrating the point that Sir John Major made a week or so ago:

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 51m51 minutes ago
    Women in parts of Birmingham live 46.1 years in good health - lowest in England http://ow.ly/USD6G

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQUV3RUEAAvk3X.png

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 36m36 minutes ago
    Women in parts of Westminster live 78.3 years in good health - highest in England http://ow.ly/USEzU

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQX8g8WUAA_ogm.png

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 22m22 minutes ago
    Men in parts of Salford live 46.3 years in good health - lowest in England http://ow.ly/USH89

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQblYZU8AAannc.png

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 1h1 hour ago
    Men in parts of Kensington & Chelsea live 80.2 years in good health - highest in England http://ow.ly/USAwD

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQQpfiWcAEKez6.png


    Those gaps are just astounding and appalling.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.
    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,047

    Basically, to paraphrase Don: there are currently many opportunities for a decent, credible opposition to make a mark, to hold the government to account and to strike a chord with the electorate; but because Corbyn Labour is not a decent, credible opposition this is not happening.

    I agree completely.

    Although I agree, what arguments SHOULD Labour be making?

    NHS for a start. Tories can't blame anyone else now. They've had five years and a massive re-org.
    Maybe - they can certainly try to blame Labour (Brown pulled out the 'last Tory government' excuse a couple of times 13 years after the last one!), but even though Labour haveb wolf a lot, the Tories are still vulnerable there. Really the economic failings of Osborne would normally be the best bet now we are 5 years from the last Labour gov, but obviously it's harder to argue the government failed to meet their target when you don't care about that target.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Telegraph - "France has carried out 793 searches since state of emergency declared

    The French interior ministry says they have carried out 793 searches, 107 arrests leading to 90 people being remanded in custody since the start of the state of emergency on Saturday.

    In all, 174 weapons have been found, including 18 "weapons of war", along with 64 drugs seizures and 250,000 euros in cash. Some 164 people have been consigned to their residence.

    On the night of Thursday alone, police carried out 182 new raids, 20 arrests and 17 people were remanded in custody. Some 76 weapons were seized."

    They've been busy...

    That's 182 in the whole of France though - any idea how that compares to a normal Thursday night?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    chestnut said:

    190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes

    700,000 support staff.

    Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
    When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pockets

    #Conflictofinterest
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    His wife is very pleasant though!
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Basically, to paraphrase Don: there are currently many opportunities for a decent, credible opposition to make a mark, to hold the government to account and to strike a chord with the electorate; but because Corbyn Labour is not a decent, credible opposition this is not happening.

    I agree completely.

    Although I agree, what arguments SHOULD Labour be making?

    NHS for a start. Tories can't blame anyone else now. They've had five years and a massive re-org.
    NHS is the topic, what is the argument?

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Numpty Post Of The Day.

    Telegraph - "France has carried out 793 searches since state of emergency declared

    The French interior ministry says they have carried out 793 searches, 107 arrests leading to 90 people being remanded in custody since the start of the state of emergency on Saturday.

    In all, 174 weapons have been found, including 18 "weapons of war", along with 64 drugs seizures and 250,000 euros in cash. Some 164 people have been consigned to their residence.

    On the night of Thursday alone, police carried out 182 new raids, 20 arrests and 17 people were remanded in custody. Some 76 weapons were seized."

    They've been busy...

    That's 182 in the whole of France though - any idea how that compares to a normal Thursday night?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Those gaps are just astounding and appalling.

    Whilst I agree with your main point, it's a bit silly of Jamie Jenkins to use Westminster and K & C as examples - they are extremely special cases with characteristics which distort the figures.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    watford30 said:

    watford30 said:

    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.
    They would appear to be rubbish at their job.
    Like you at trolling TBF
    'Trolling' = Criticising your religion. The cult of the NHS.
    So you admit Trolling.

    I suppose thats a start
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Basically, to paraphrase Don: there are currently many opportunities for a decent, credible opposition to make a mark, to hold the government to account and to strike a chord with the electorate; but because Corbyn Labour is not a decent, credible opposition this is not happening.

    I agree completely.

    Although I agree, what arguments SHOULD Labour be making?

    NHS for a start. Tories can't blame anyone else now. They've had five years and a massive re-org.
    Labour also has its' own problems on the NHS.

    Generally their lack of credibility on the economy that directly results in the funding of the service but more specifically at the general election Labour refused to commit to the additional spending required to maintain the NHS.

    Notwithstanding that the Conservative government needs to come up with some radical reforms and funding formula for the NHS and social care before the demographic time bomb detonates under the whole system.

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    HYUFD said:

    What is needed is a coherent military strategy to defeat ISIS on the ground involving the FSA, the Kurds, Shia militias, Western special forces, neighbouring Arab nations and even Assad

    which of those many sides are going to be in charge when it's finished?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited 2015 20

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    His wife is very pleasant though!
    Victoria Coren is delightful – but disturbingly bright. they make a good pair.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited 2015 20

    chestnut said:

    190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes

    700,000 support staff.

    Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
    When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pockets

    #Conflictofinterest
    The NHS is, regrettably, stuck in the 20th century. It's the last of the great dinosaur bureaucracies.

    I have had personal cause to deal with it in two different capacities - one as a patient - in the last six months.

    I see processes, behaviours and communications which have no place in the 21st century; things that other less zealously defended parts of the public sector consigned to the dustbin twenty years ago.

    I half expect to encounter people with quill pens and ink wells.

    I'd target a 350,000 reduction in it's support payroll.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    edited 2015 20

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    True though if you only watched Tory voting actors and comedians you would be stuck with Jim Davidson, Bill Roache, Joan Collins, Jimmy Tarbuck and Adam Rickett!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    NHS?

    Just let me know if the left get too rowdy and I'll play the Wales card.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    watford30 said:

    watford30 said:

    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Fire 50% of the managers.
    They would appear to be rubbish at their job.
    Like you at trolling TBF
    'Trolling' = Criticising your religion. The cult of the NHS.
    So you admit Trolling.

    I suppose thats a start
    No, I'm criticising your cult.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited 2015 20
    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do know though; a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    HYUFD said:

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    True though if you only watched Tory voting actors and comedians you would be stuck with Jim Davidson, Bill Roache, Joan Collins, Jimmy Tarbuck and Adam Rickett!
    Simon Evans, Mickey Flanagan, Michael McIntyre
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2015 20
    I pay ZERO attention to actors playing politics - and doubly so those appearing in mawkish charity advert - Yes you, Bill Nighy.

    I totally understand luvvies who don't vote Labour being very quiet about it. You forgot Cilla and Gary Barlow - she got loads of stick for it. Why bother?
    HYUFD said:

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    True though if you only watched Tory voting actors and comedians you would be stuck with Jim Davidson, Ken Roache, Jimmy Tarbuck and Adam Rickett!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016

    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

    Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    JackW said:

    MaxPB said:

    NHS trusts in England have declared the worst financial performance in the history of the health service, with fears some hospitals will run out of cash to pay staff.
    New figures from NHS regulators revealed a deficit of £1.6bn, with projections the figure will reach £2.2bn by the end of the financial year.
    Experts told the Telegraph that the situation is now so bleak that there are fears that over the next year, some hospitals will be unable to pay their staff.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12005483/NHS-faces-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history.html

    and yet we're expected to give Jr Drs a pay rise?
    What is your solution?
    Longer term we need to look at ending life extending treatment on the NHS for very old people ...
    Your name vill alzo go on zee list. Vot is it ?

    Don't tell him!
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited 2015 20

    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

    Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.
    not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.
    and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and your £1 has gone up above inflation.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    I pay ZERO attention to actors playing politics - and doubly so those appearing in mawkish charity advert - Yes you, Bill Nighy.

    I totally understand luvvies who don't vote Labour being very quiet about it. You forgot Cilla and Gary Barlow - she got loads of stick for it. Why bother?

    HYUFD said:

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    True though if you only watched Tory voting actors and comedians you would be stuck with Jim Davidson, Ken Roache, Jimmy Tarbuck and Adam Rickett!
    do you think John Cleese still supports the lib dems (actually, did he? or did he only declare for the SDP?Alliance?)
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Gerry Robinson found some solutions.

    ' I think what the NHS needs to learn is that actually you don’t solve problems by throwing money at it, and not every problem actually needs money to solve it. That’s the first lesson. Secondly, to get out of their heads the idea that things have to take three years to do and get into the idea that there is a series of objectives that we need to do now, and that we’ve got months, not years to do it. Those two things, I think, would have the biggest single impact on the way that the Health Service is managed.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_Gerry_Robinson_Fix_the_NHS?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Given that Mr Owls retired early, on a fat pension shows how taxpayers money is being drained from the NHS by no-longer-present-expenpushers.

    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

    Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.
    not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.
    and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and you £1 has gone up above inflation.
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    I wonder if Stephen Fry will follow Robert Webb's example. In the past Fry has been very critical of Hamas.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016

    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

    Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.
    not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.
    and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and your £1 has gone up above inflation.
    Parallel universe
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    As I understand it, something like 10% of the population account for something like 70% of the nation's healthcare costs. That 10% are, by and large, the elderly. As we as a nation get older, healthcare costs will rise in step with that ageing.

    It follows that any spending plan for the NHS linked to inflation (including healthcare inflation) is doomed to failure because the problem is not so much one of inflation but of demography. But we don't seem remotely ready yet for a discussion about what level of spending we are willing to put into healthcare or how that is going to be paid for.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes

    700,000 support staff.

    Lots of 'efficiencies' to be had.
    When exactly will PB Tories look closer to home for the fact that 99% of the deficits are in the Acute sector whereas Commissioners (to whom Lansley gave all the money) are in surplus and continuing to line their own pockets

    #Conflictofinterest
    The NHS is, regrettably, stuck in the 20th century. It's the last of the great dinosaur bureaucracies.

    I have personal cause to deal with it in two different capacities - one as a patient - in the last six months.

    I see processes, behaviours and communications which have no place in the 21st century; things that other less zealously defended parts of the public sector consigned to the dustbin twenty years ago.

    I half expect to encounter people with quill pens and ink wells.

    I'd target a 350,000 reduction in it's support payroll.
    I thinh i would agree that was possible if the internal market were abandoned.

    Majority of Admin Staff are at Commissioners, NHS England outposts,localities etc.

    At least 30% of Finance staff in a hospital are prating about negotiating, raising invoices paying invoices, accounting for, the internal market that the reforms made worse.

    Commissioners fine Acutes for missing targets they admit are not within the power of the Provider to meet in order to neet their own NHS Eng. target on fines.

    Its a complete mess


    Try looking here

    GPs award £2.4bn deals to their own companies | The Times 11/11/15
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2015 20

    Given that Mr Owls retired early, on a fat pension shows how taxpayers money is being drained from the NHS by no-longer-present-expenpushers.

    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

    Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.
    not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.
    and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and you £1 has gone up above inflation.
    And doctors training up at the taxpayers expense, before legging it overseas to fatten up their wallets.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    Is Fargo any good, me and the missus are looking for something decent to download.

    Meantime you'll enjoy this:

    http://youtu.be/ZtgPeNKpnyw
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Wasn't Daniel Radcliffe a LD?

    Nothing has ever topped Rory Bremner [was he a Tory?] taking the piss here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP13Oc8CDxo

    I pay ZERO attention to actors playing politics - and doubly so those appearing in mawkish charity advert - Yes you, Bill Nighy.

    I totally understand luvvies who don't vote Labour being very quiet about it. You forgot Cilla and Gary Barlow - she got loads of stick for it. Why bother?

    HYUFD said:

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    True though if you only watched Tory voting actors and comedians you would be stuck with Jim Davidson, Ken Roache, Jimmy Tarbuck and Adam Rickett!
    do you think John Cleese still supports the lib dems (actually, did he? or did he only declare for the SDP?Alliance?)
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739
    edited 2015 20

    Illustrating the point that Sir John Major made a week or so ago:

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 51m51 minutes ago
    Women in parts of Birmingham live 46.1 years in good health - lowest in England http://ow.ly/USD6G

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQUV3RUEAAvk3X.png

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 36m36 minutes ago
    Women in parts of Westminster live 78.3 years in good health - highest in England http://ow.ly/USEzU

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQX8g8WUAA_ogm.png

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 22m22 minutes ago
    Men in parts of Salford live 46.3 years in good health - lowest in England http://ow.ly/USH89

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQblYZU8AAannc.png

    Jamie Jenkins ‏@statsjamie · 1h1 hour ago
    Men in parts of Kensington & Chelsea live 80.2 years in good health - highest in England http://ow.ly/USAwD

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUQQpfiWcAEKez6.png


    Those gaps are just astounding and appalling.

    I remember from when I was doing my A level history that the average life expectancy in 1842 of a farm laborer in Rutland was 38 whilst that of a factory laborer in Manchester was 17.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Fargo S1 is SUPERB. I loved every minute. It's on Netflix IIRC.

    I've S2 waiting for me - but it's a different cast and like True Detective - I'm wary of seeing another great start ruined. I didn't bother past E3 of TD2. It was boring and dire.

    Ha! I wish I'd never seen Martin Freeman's PPB. I can't watch Fargo S1 in the same light again.

    I loathed Sherlock with Ego Cumberbatch, so don't miss him in that at all.

    HYUFD said:

    I detest Dave Mitchell's smuggery. He makes Stephen Fry look modest.

    HYUFD said:

    I've no idea who Robert Webb is. Is he famous? I've no compass here on popular culture.

    I've been away from the screen - have we done this one?

    "Actor and comedian Robert Webb has revealed on Twitter he has cancelled his membership of the Labour party."

    Pass the popcorn!

    Mitchell and Webb? His comedy partner is David Mitchell
    Well at least you now know who Robert Webb is
    Is Fargo any good, me and the missus are looking for something decent to download.

    Meantime you'll enjoy this:

    ttp://youtu.be/ZtgPeNKpnyw
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    190 of 241 providers were in the red during the second quarter of the year. 127 OF 131 Acutes

    Thanks god Labour not in power - how much were they going to cut the budget by again?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,773

    Given that Mr Owls retired early, on a fat pension shows how taxpayers money is being drained from the NHS by no-longer-present-expenpushers.

    Re the NHS.

    BJO - a better question given that you are the one who constantly brings it up is - what would YOU do?

    Given that funding for the NHS is ring-fenced, and going up in real terms and the NHS has apparently made over £1Bn worth of efficiency savings, one has to as the question why all of a sudden are practically all Acute Trusts in deficit? What has changed?
    Let's not get overly partisan about it and seek to identify the real causes and thereby find the real solutions.

    One thing I do though, a time of massive constraints on spending and budgets in the red all over the shop is not the time to be seeking any sort of pay-rise.

    Seems to me that unachievable targets are being set! The equivalent of saying "go intom a pub with a £1 and buy a pint!.
    not really - according to BJO the same £1 would have bought you a pint last year.
    and it is now cheaper to make the pint, and you £1 has gone up above inflation.
    Is that your solution to the current crisis? Or are you now as bad as Watford 30 (I thought you were better than that)

    NHS remuneration packages have been affordable for 70 years and (reduced by 20% in real terms in the past 6 years.)

    Yet the crisis gets worse.

    Again I think you need to look at the internal market as to why pen pushing is more prevalant than it could be but less than 3% of my hospitals wage bill was spent on Admin staff.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Aargh! The curse of the new thread.

    In response to those on the previous thread commenting about why the left has such a blind spot about Islamism, I posted this - and I make no apologies about posting it again, given that Corbyn - whose blind spots would fill a whole galaxy - is the subject of the thread.

    Albert Camus explained it very well:-

    "Mistaken ideas always end in bloodshed but in every case it is someone else's blood. That is why some of our thinkers feel free to say just about anything."

    Tony Judt, a marvellous (and, sadly, late) historian also described the phenomenon:-

    "Totalitarianism of the Left, much like an earlier totalitarianism of the Right, was about violence and power and control, and it appealed because of these features, not in spite of them."

    I think that we have to face the fact that for some on the Left, Islamism has precisely this attraction, even if the Left deludes itself into thinking this is all about them being against racism and intolerance.

    Just as Islamism seems to have perverted Islam or is a perversion of it, so the Left, by claiming the word "liberal" has perverted what liberalism truly is. It is time for the rest of us to wrest liberal values - real liberal values - back from the left.


  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Does anyone else donate to Wikipedia? I'm being touched up again by Jimmy Wales.
This discussion has been closed.