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edited November 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Reality check for Osborne’s ambitions

Can it really be only a month since the Chancellor George Osborne was swaggering around Manchester stealing Labour policy clothes and putting himself at the head of the queue to be next Tory leader? A Telegraph sketch of his Tory conference speech recounted – tongue in cheek — Osborne’s journey from “omnishambles to omnipotence”

Read the full story here


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  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    edited November 2015
    Thirst?

    Edit:

    "You may have guessed you have been reading the thoughts of an Osbosceptic. I find the whiny voice and the expression permanently half way between a smirk and a sneer deeply unattractive."

    No, I've guessed I've been reading the thoughts of a Labour hack, whose deeply unattractive 'opinions' seem to come straight from Labour Party HQ.

    As usual.
  • MP_SE
    MP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Second
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Did I forget to read the article or was it a Freudian slip? Brind on Osborne - really?
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    Polls also consistently show that the GBP are in favour of welfare reform and cuts. This is a cul-de-sac for Labour that they are charging into headlong. The next election, like the last one, will be fought between a party that is "serious" about the public finances and one that is not. We all know from this year how that turns out.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Nobody ever got rich from underestimating George Osborne.
  • watford30
    watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015
    Another article from a Labour Party spin doctor. It's all there - 'Ashcroft', 'Hedge fund', 'Sneering'.

    Might as well have one from Craig Oliver, for balance.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    VAZILICIOUS: KEITH’S SWEET HYPOCRISY

    http://order-order.com/2015/11/06/vazilicious-keiths-sweet-hypocrisy/
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Osborne infuriates the enemy. Good.
  • Luckyguy1983
    Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,089
    I don't like Osborne either. I think he's a disaster who plays politics with the country's (depressingly debt fuelled) economy.

    But this is nothing more than a hit peice with the merest of nods toward the purpose of this site. It doesn't belong here.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Labour puff piece Friday.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Atul is more objective and he pens LabourUncut...
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour puff piece Friday.

  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited November 2015
    No, stick with it George. If we are still borrowing tens of billions a year when the next recession comes along then we are royally screwed.

    Undoing Gordon Brown's free pile of cash to almost every family in the country is going to be difficult and politically unpopular, but now is the time to do it just after the election and with almost full employment offering better options for those affected.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :+1:
    Sandpit said:

    No, stick with it George. If we are still borrowing tens of billions a year when the next recession comes along then we are royally screwed.

    Undoing Gordon Brown's free pile of cash to almost every family in the country is going to be difficult and politically unpopular, but now is the time to do it just after the election and with almost full employment offering better options for those affected.

  • Luckyguy1983
    Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,089
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    But shouldn't those stranded there be allowed to come home if they wish (provided security is beefed up)? It's a total nightmare for them.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited November 2015
    FPT @Richard_Nabavi I am sure Mike would be happy to publish your piece if you wished it to receive a wider audience.
  • Luckyguy1983
    Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,089
    Sandpit said:

    No, stick with it George. If we are still borrowing tens of billions a year when the next recession comes along then we are royally screwed.

    Undoing Gordon Brown's free pile of cash to almost every family in the country is going to be difficult and politically unpopular, but now is the time to do it just after the election and with almost full employment offering better options for those affected.

    We will still be borrowing that money. We have a £120 billion Health budget, and a commitment to spending ever increasing amounts on foreign aid. £3.5bn to phase these changes in is mere change.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited November 2015
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    But shouldn't those stranded there be allowed to come home if they wish (provided security is beefed up)? It's a total nightmare for them.
    Yep. If the Egyptians want to turn away British civil planes then the RAF have another sort we can send them, and they won't be asking permission!
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    JosiasJessop said:

    Thirst?

    Edit:

    "You may have guessed you have been reading the thoughts of an Osbosceptic. I find the whiny voice and the expression permanently half way between a smirk and a sneer deeply unattractive."

    No, I've guessed I've been reading the thoughts of a Labour hack, whose deeply unattractive 'opinions' seem to come straight from Labour Party HQ.

    As usual.

    It isn't only Labour hacks who find Osborne's natural expressions unattractive

    The reality is that Osborne still has a grating voice and a punchable face.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/07/11/pax-osbornia-recasting-the-political-landscape-into-the-2030s/
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    They're trying and planes are being stacked/messed about with in Egypt - that's beyond our control.
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    But shouldn't those stranded there be allowed to come home if they wish (provided security is beefed up)? It's a total nightmare for them.
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Its policies that matter most. Corbyn is unelectable anyway, so this is another fantasy piece by Mr Brind
  • watford30
    watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    It's a total nightmare for them.
    Err, they're alive. And stuck in an airport. It hardly compares to being blown into their component parts and splattered across the desert.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    BREAKING NEWS: Rescue planes sent to evacuate stranded British tourists from Sharm are TURNING BACK after the Egyptian government blocked flights leaving amid diplomatic row

    A series of 'rescue flights' were set to leave the Red Sea resort today to evacuate first Britons trapped in Egypt
    EasyJet said British planes into Sharm el-Sheikh and departures had been blocked by Egypt at the last minute
    Egyptian minister said only eight of 29 planned flights would leave amid growing row between Cairo and Britain
    Hossam Kamal said there wasn't enough space to store 120 tonnes of check-in baggage left behind at the airport
    Two easyJet planes did leave resort with 359 passengers, with both taking big diversions away from ISIS territory
    Vladimir Putin suspends all flights to Egypt on advice of his top spy and after a ten minute phone call with PM

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3306552/Thousands-Britons-fly-home-Sharm-today-20-flights-bring-stranded-tourists-bare-essentials.html#ixzz3qj2lpceW

  • agingjb
    agingjb Posts: 76
    Is it my imagination, or is partisan bile (PB, for short) actually intensifying? Helps no-one I'd say.

    Anyway, Tax Credits or whatever. Just draw the graph of what you wish to achieve as a net result of tax and benefits. Unless the intention is pathological the most elegant way to achieve it is: tax all income, make benefits universal.

    Some hope.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Some years ago I flew into Cairo , on to Luxor and then to Assam before returning to Cairo and they were all third world airports with little security. I would not want to go back to Egypt due to security issues which is a shame as it is a wonderful Country to visit
  • edmundintokyo
    edmundintokyo Posts: 17,735
    On topic, this is the sort of thing where the government fights its way through and gets most of the policy enacted, and it becomes the new normal that the opposition doesn't dare pledge to reverse. They probably come out stronger for doing it.

    On a potential Osborne vs Corbyn race, I don't think the approval ratings are definitive; Even if they find Osborne repulsive, the voters are going to be scared Corbyn is going to bollocks up the economy, a problem Osborne is unlikely to have.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Osborne was never considered much of a prospect for leader. The rise from the days of the Omnishambles took a long time and a lot of effort and some decent recovery. So recent hits may not be the end for his ambitions, and even if they are he is well placed to remain influential behind another leader, but he will have to step up and prove he can shake his unfortunate reputation, fair or not, and I don't know if he can.

    The optimism point Don raises I discount entirely. Labour moaned endlessly about people not being optimistic about our prospects through 2010-2015 and how that would hit the Tories, and I believed them, and it ended up being nonsense. It's the same argument now, and maybe this time it will work out, 10 years of semi or full tory rule and a different economic situation and all that, but it is quite clearly just a stock response with no analysis behind it, the same as any recovery not being a 'real' recovery.
  • MP_SE
    MP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited November 2015
    George Osborne is the UK's answer to Herman von Rompuy. No charisma and the appearance of a low grade bank clerk. I think he has finally sorted out his wardrobe as for a long while he looked like a fresh faced graduate in their first suit.
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sandpit said:

    No, stick with it George. If we are still borrowing tens of billions a year when the next recession comes along then we are royally screwed.

    Undoing Gordon Brown's free pile of cash to almost every family in the country is going to be difficult and politically unpopular, but now is the time to do it just after the election and with almost full employment offering better options for those affected.

    Well said, Mr. Pit, well said, Sir.

    When people on here write about recipients losing £1300 a month (what does that work out as a pre-tax salary?) from tax credits alone (housing benefit and so forth still to come) I am gob smacked. Why, in Gods name, are people having their life choices subsidised by an seemingly ever shrinking pool of net taxpayers to that amount?
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited November 2015
    Sandpit said:

    FPT @Richard_Nabavi I am sure Mike would be happy to publish your piece if you wished it to receive a wider audience.

    Thanks, but it's not really that kind of piece - more a summary of the facts and some questions, to guide discussion. It's also 9 pages long!
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Plato_Says said:

    They're trying and planes are being stacked/messed about with in Egypt - that's beyond our control.

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    But shouldn't those stranded there be allowed to come home if they wish (provided security is beefed up)? It's a total nightmare for them.
    If I were the pilot of one of those I'd use the "M-word" and tell the Egyptians I'm landing anyway!
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    agingjb said:

    Is it my imagination, or is partisan bile (PB, for short) actually intensifying? Helps no-one I'd say.

    I think it's about average, certain topics, or people, just provoke more of it than others. Despite some people thinking the EuroRef will not be a bloodbath, in my opinion it looks to be more vicious than the IndyRef given what we've already seen.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I was on the first commercial flight into Agra [it took about twenty bods in uniform 5hrs to let us leave] and that made Jamaica's concrete henhouse terminal look sophisticated.
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Some years ago I flew into Cairo , on to Luxor and then to Assam before returning to Cairo and they were all third world airports with little security. I would not want to go back to Egypt due to security issues which is a shame as it is a wonderful Country to visit
  • david_herdson
    david_herdson Posts: 18,357
    "the policy will do damage to some of Britain’s most vulnerable"

    The notion that no-one on a low income should ever lose out from any government change is complete nonsense and needs to be called out as such. Yes, some families will lose. That's what happens when you have to make cuts. The government should take the fight to Labour on that basis and not allow them or their fellow travellers to set the terms of the debate.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    SquareRoot said:

    Its policies that matter most.

    When did that start happening?
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    swaggering?
    Stopped reading right there. Thank you and good night Mr Brind.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    Portugal's government faces defeat in a confidence vote on Tuesday:

    https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/60522
  • edmundintokyo
    edmundintokyo Posts: 17,735
    OT, just looking at the draft Investigatory Powers Bill, I wonder if Osborne understands what's in it. The Home Secretary can order you to break your software's security, you're not allowed to tell anyone including your MP (can you even tell your lawyer?) and legitimate security researchers who discover the deliberately-inserted bugs aren't allowed to report them, so they can only be discussed and exploited by criminals.

    I suppose if your main business is already based in the UK you may decide to take a chance that they won't make you do anything too destructive, but they're also trying to make it apply to overseas companies that have an address in the UK, so international companies with offices in the UK are going to need to close them.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    The “tweaks” that are a favourite in Tory vocabulary are dismissed by the Resolution Foundation. Phasing in the cuts would still leave 2.7 million families worse off and only shift the burden towards the end of parliament

    Right. Either we think we need to reduce the deficit or we don't. If we do, welfare has to be hit, and many people will be worse off, though how much is a matter of considerable debate. If we don't, then of course no-one needs to worry about ever being worse off, but if we are to reduce spending then some people will obviously be worse off. I don't deny that the latest measures have hit Osborne and the Tories politically, but I struggle to understand why, as Labour told everyone the Tories would cut things and people would be worse off, and apparently no one noticed.

    Personally I hope Labour go anti austerity and pro tax rises, while the Tories go pro restraint (I use that as a term on the basis that if they do eliminate the deficit it won't be austerity, ie, cuts, thereafter), we can have a nice clear dividing line and see if the public put their votes where their mouths are, by actually voting for an opposite platform if they don't like this one, rather than simply switching between similar entities if they dislike Osborne.

    This piece seems to still be fighting the austerity battle, which is fine so long as Labour commit to it. Their attacking of cuts while still needing to cut in their own plans last time was unconvincing. So if they come out and say, we will not cut, and so we need to tax us all more to pay for the things we want, that is ok. Otherwise, Corbyn's lot are right you might as well go for the one's who admit they want to cut things, rather than those who pretend they don't.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    HurstLlama said:

    Sandpit said:

    No, stick with it George. If we are still borrowing tens of billions a year when the next recession comes along then we are royally screwed.

    Undoing Gordon Brown's free pile of cash to almost every family in the country is going to be difficult and politically unpopular, but now is the time to do it just after the election and with almost full employment offering better options for those affected.

    Well said, Mr. Pit, well said, Sir.

    When people on here write about recipients losing £1300 a month (what does that work out as a pre-tax salary?) from tax credits alone (housing benefit and so forth still to come) I am gob smacked. Why, in Gods name, are people having their life choices subsidised by an seemingly ever shrinking pool of net taxpayers to that amount?
    Thanks :)

    The government's defence of this policy has been terrible - George and IDS need to do it themselves, and get people talking about absolute numbers. Say that we are sorry that we need to stop borrowing and cutting the income subsidy to a family of five where one person works part time from 20k to £19k is not unreasonable, given he or she can work more hours to earn money.

    The important bit is to get the numbers out there, Gordon Brown style, have every minister in every interview repeat several times that we are subsidising part time workers £20k a year. That's the way to get the public on side with the reforms, they are still mostly ignorant at the scale of tax credit payments.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Some years ago I flew into Cairo , on to Luxor and then to Assam before returning to Cairo and they were all third world airports with little security. I would not want to go back to Egypt due to security issues which is a shame as it is a wonderful Country to visit
    Strange really. They need tourism. You would thin the places would be crawling with security. You would think they would be touting themselves as world leaders. Yet we read that Sinai which is the back door to Sharm is threatened by terrorists. How many UK visitors flying into Sharm ever knew that?
    Assuming this was a bomb then we must be grateful that the target was Russian. Putin with his real 'swagger' (not a cheapshot made up one) set himself up for a fall.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Sean_F said:

    . It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off.

    Well, quite. It is perfectly clear there are large numbers of people who don't want any reductions in spending anywhere at any time (in practice, even if they accept the idea in theory). The public at large don't mind that as much as some politicians think, particular when it comes to welfare restrictions, but the public is made of people and all of us have ideological inconsistencies, where we support the abstract concept but oppose the reality.

    Fortunately for Labour it would appear significant numbers are at a tipping point where these latest changes are regarded as unfair, there's momentum against them, and this is seen in how there have been Tory voices against them as well (for policy and political reasons).
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    kle4 said:

    The “tweaks” that are a favourite in Tory vocabulary are dismissed by the Resolution Foundation. Phasing in the cuts would still leave 2.7 million families worse off and only shift the burden towards the end of parliament

    Right. Either we think we need to reduce the deficit or we don't. If we do, welfare has to be hit, and many people will be worse off, though how much is a matter of considerable debate. If we don't, then of course no-one needs to worry about ever being worse off, but if we are to reduce spending then some people will obviously be worse off. I don't deny that the latest measures have hit Osborne and the Tories politically, but I struggle to understand why, as Labour told everyone the Tories would cut things and people would be worse off, and apparently no one noticed.

    Personally I hope Labour go anti austerity and pro tax rises, while the Tories go pro restraint (I use that as a term on the basis that if they do eliminate the deficit it won't be austerity, ie, cuts, thereafter), we can have a nice clear dividing line and see if the public put their votes where their mouths are, by actually voting for an opposite platform if they don't like this one, rather than simply switching between similar entities if they dislike Osborne.

    This piece seems to still be fighting the austerity battle, which is fine so long as Labour commit to it. Their attacking of cuts while still needing to cut in their own plans last time was unconvincing. So if they come out and say, we will not cut, and so we need to tax us all more to pay for the things we want, that is ok. Otherwise, Corbyn's lot are right you might as well go for the one's who admit they want to cut things, rather than those who pretend they don't.

    Measures taken by the last coalition govt reduced the tax credits bill by 10 billion. It is now 30 billion. It would have been 40 billion if nothing had been done.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    After the Luxor attack - the Egyptians upped the tourism police and they swarm everywhere. Why such vigilance isn't applied to Sharm or their other airports is beyond me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_massacre
    flightpath01 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Some years ago I flew into Cairo , on to Luxor and then to Assam before returning to Cairo and they were all third world airports with little security. I would not want to go back to Egypt due to security issues which is a shame as it is a wonderful Country to visit
    Strange really. They need tourism. You would thin the places would be crawling with security. You would think they would be touting themselves as world leaders. Yet we read that Sinai which is the back door to Sharm is threatened by terrorists. How many UK visitors flying into Sharm ever knew that?
    Assuming this was a bomb then we must be grateful that the target was Russian. Putin with his real 'swagger' (not a cheapshot made up one) set himself up for a fall.
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Sean_F said:

    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edmundintokyo said:

    I suppose if your main business is already based in the UK you may decide to take a chance that they won't make you do anything too destructive, but they're also trying to make it apply to overseas companies that have an address in the UK, so international companies with offices in the UK are going to need to close them.

    I think you can be 100% certain that the US and all other Western countries will implement very similar rules, as they always have in the past for over half a century.
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    The penultimate paragraph - a bit of unpleasant personal abuse is something any thread writer on this site should be thoroughly ashamed of. It really weakens any semblance of rational argument a d makes the author seem a deeply unpleasant person.
  • runnymede
    runnymede Posts: 2,536
    I find the whiny voice and the expression permanently half way between a smirk and a sneer deeply unattractive.

    Really? how fascinating. Perhaps you can go back to posting D.Spart comments at the bottom of Guardian stories now, or something similar.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    MikeSmithson said:

    Sean_F said:

    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.
    It helped. But, if the voters had rated Labour more highly than the Conservatives in terms of leadership and economic competence, Labour would have won.

    I wouldn't disagree on the pensions point. There is no justification at all for the Triple Lock.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    agingjb said:

    Is it my imagination, or is partisan bile (PB, for short) actually intensifying?

    Not really.

    It's just gone from tim claiming Osborne would lose the last election to Don claiming Osborne will lose the next.

    The only question is which was more wrong in their predictions...
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    MikeSmithson said:

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    Labour received more money than the Conservatives in 2011, 2012, and 2013
    MikeSmithson said:

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.

    The Conservatives don't need to 'buy votes' amongst oldies, and in any case it was Labour who introduced the least defensible perks: very generous bus passes, free TV licences, higher tax allowances (which Osborne has abolished - so much for 'buying votes').
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    edited November 2015
    "The General Election in May was a disaster for Labour but it was well short of a full-hearted endorsement of Osbonomics...

    Whatever optimism that Osborne and Cameron generated to secure their narrow victory in May seems to be melting away, according to Ipsos Mori polling reported in the Evening Standard under the headline “Britain’s sunny view of the future goes as economic clouds gather.”

    What has been happening to Labour since September, Corbyn has managed to encourage big swings in local elections away from his party. The hounding of MPs continues, and the public divisions haven't gone away either. It is unlikely that Osborne would be unduly worried about the state of the Labour party as a serious opposition.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Inconvenient Facts Part 94
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    Labour received more money than the Conservatives in 2011, 2012, and 2013
    MikeSmithson said:

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.

    The Conservatives don't need to 'buy votes' amongst oldies, and in any case it was Labour who introduced the least defensible perks: very generous bus passes, free TV licences, higher tax allowances (which Osborne has abolished - so much for 'buying votes').
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited November 2015
    As someone who thought Labour would win in 2015 and that Ed M would be ok as PM, at least this piece acknowledges that, contrary to my own expectations, there was some sense of optimism for Cameron_Osborne and their plans in May which saw them win, and seeks to challenge the basis of that optimism and attack the possible next leader, solo Osborne. That is better than I saw Corbyn in an interview claim, which was that people simply didn't understand what they were voting for when they voted the Tories in, which in addition to being patronising to voters, is insulting to everyone in Labour by suggesting they didn't do a good job telling people what voting Tory meant.
  • perdix
    perdix Posts: 1,806
    A blatant political piece by Don Brind. I'm no greater supporter of Ozzie but I tremble to think what state the country would be in if Labour had won the general election. The country is at least moving in the right direction but difficult decisions have still to be made.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    MikeSmithson said:

    Sean_F said:

    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.
    I think that's right about cash making up for local volunteers, though to be fair the flying squads bus was good too.

    The weekly whinges about Don Brind's articles are boring - people don't like them, they don't have to read them. Or, better, they can write interesting pieces putting alternative views.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    I must say, a curious piece in some respects. I disagree with many analyses of the stated points, and its summary seems to ignore all that in any case to focus on the, probably relevant, point that people don't really like Osborne in a personal way, but I do feel the essential point that his prospects have taken a hit, that he may even be a bit trapped now, is not without merit. A valid point poorly argued perhaps, which in fairness in my own style (I would hope, with the former at least).

    But now for work.
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited November 2015
    Sean_F said:

    I wouldn't disagree on the pensions point. There is no justification at all for the Triple Lock.

    What is the triple lock on the state pension?

    The triple lock on the state pension was introduced by the Liberal Democrats in Government.

    http://www.libdems.org.uk/pensions-triple-lock

    I'm not sure that this is really as generous as people think, TBH. The basic state pension is low anyway, so increasing it at a slightly higher rate than you might otherwise is not unreasonable, for a while at least.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jessicaelgot: Jeremy Corbyn's head of policy Andrew Fisher has been suspended from the Labour Party pending a report - @PA
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    GOWNBPM
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    POJCWAS

    Press Association ‏@PA 1m1 minute ago
    #Breaking Jeremy Corbyn's head of policy Andrew Fisher suspended from Labour Party pending report by its ruling National Executive Committee
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Twitter is forever, even when you delete lots of it.
    Scott_P said:

    @jessicaelgot: Jeremy Corbyn's head of policy Andrew Fisher has been suspended from the Labour Party pending a report - @PA

  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Scott_P said:

    @jessicaelgot: Jeremy Corbyn's head of policy Andrew Fisher has been suspended from the Labour Party pending a report - @PA

    So that appointment turned out well then. Whoops!
  • LadyBucket
    LadyBucket Posts: 590
    Do we know if the PM was obliged to share the intelligence with JCorbyn, or hasn't he been cleared yet?

    The thought of JCorbyn being PM and having to deal with an alleged act of terrorism, just chills me to the bone.
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    dr_spyn said:

    POJCWAS

    Press Association ‏@PA 1m1 minute ago
    #Breaking Jeremy Corbyn's head of policy Andrew Fisher suspended from Labour Party pending report by its ruling National Executive Committee

    Perhaps Don Brind could write about this not GO - on which he is clearly lacking a clue.

  • chestnut
    chestnut Posts: 7,341
    He doesn't seem overly enamoured with Mr and Mrs Balls, nor Emily Benn.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/20/labour-mps-demand-answers-jeremy-corbyn-andrew-fisher

    Vote Class War, indeed.



  • watford30
    watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Sean_F said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Sean_F said:

    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.
    It helped. But, if the voters had rated Labour more highly than the Conservatives in terms of leadership and economic competence, Labour would have won.

    I wouldn't disagree on the pensions point. There is no justification at all for the Triple Lock.
    The Triple Lock. That was the Lib Dem's idea wasn't it?
  • MTimT
    MTimT Posts: 7,034
    JosiasJessop said:

    Thirst?

    Edit:

    "You may have guessed you have been reading the thoughts of an Osbosceptic. I find the whiny voice and the expression permanently half way between a smirk and a sneer deeply unattractive."

    No, I've guessed I've been reading the thoughts of a Labour hack, whose deeply unattractive 'opinions' seem to come straight from Labour Party HQ.

    As usual.

    JJ - I see this author's name at the bottom of the inevitably long screed and skip straight to the comments. As you say, if you know the LPHQ line ...
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited November 2015
    NickPalmer said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Sean_F said:

    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.
    The weekly whinges about Don Brind's articles are boring - people don't like them, they don't have to read them. Or, better, they can write interesting pieces putting alternative views.
    While I find automatic whinges based on who wrote a piece tedious at times, I would suggest that people are able to critique an author and their work even if they unwilling or unable to produce their own, otherwise we would never be able to criticise books, movies, games or television unless we had produced our own. I don't see why the same would not apply to political punditry. Fraser Nelson was getting the same treatment earlier, and we know Dan Hodges gets it too from the other side.

    Good evening to all.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Given how Class War never seem to manage more than double digit votes where it stands - it shows that he's a complete nitwit when it comes to the electorate.
    chestnut said:

    He doesn't seem overly enamoured with Mr and Mrs Balls, nor Emily Benn.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/20/labour-mps-demand-answers-jeremy-corbyn-andrew-fisher

    Vote Class War, indeed.



  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    LadyBucket said:

    Do we know if the PM was obliged to share the intelligence with JCorbyn, or hasn't he been cleared yet?

    The thought of JCorbyn being PM and having to deal with an alleged act of terrorism, just chills me to the bone.

    Don't go there. There's loads of international praise around for the decisiveness and swift action of the British government in the past few days, with other major nations following and today even Russia agreeing to suspend flights to Sharm. I don't want to imagine Corbyn and McDonnell sitting around the table with MI6 and GCHQ trying for formulate a plan.
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    "You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables."

    Samuel Johnson
  • TGOHF
    TGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sandpit said:

    LadyBucket said:

    Do we know if the PM was obliged to share the intelligence with JCorbyn, or hasn't he been cleared yet?

    The thought of JCorbyn being PM and having to deal with an alleged act of terrorism, just chills me to the bone.

    Don't go there. There's loads of international praise around for the decisiveness and swift action of the British government in the past few days, with other major nations following and today even Russia agreeing to suspend flights to Sharm. I don't want to imagine Corbyn and McDonnell sitting around the table with MI6 and GCHQ trying for formulate a plan.
    Perhaps the reason Russia have now suspended flights is that Corbo got his briefing ? :D
  • watford30
    watford30 Posts: 3,474
    NickPalmer said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    Sean_F said:

    More sour grapes in this article. The Conservatives didn't win by getting money from hedge funds. They won because voters rated them far more highly than Labour in terms of leadership and economic competence. And, judging by the polling, they still do.

    As to the premise of the article, it makes sense to phase cuts in tax credits in more slowly than originally planned. It certainly doesn't make sense to any government to operate on the basis that it will never make a change to benefits if it leaves anyone worse off. Clearly, the welfare bill has to be reduced if this country is to eliminate the budget deficit.

    Disagree. The vast amount of cash that the Tories enabled them effective campaigns in the marginals even though their volunteer base is nothing like the size that it was.

    And why the welfare bills where it impacts on the young but not on the oldies although I should add that I benefit from that? That's Osborne buying votes.
    I think that's right about cash making up for local volunteers, though to be fair the flying squads bus was good too.

    The weekly whinges about Don Brind's articles are boring - people don't like them, they don't have to read them. Or, better, they can write interesting pieces putting alternative views.
    You can skip the whinges too.
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Calling Ed Mili's team "absolute shite" may not be the cause of A Fisher's suspension from Lab but won't have helped http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-faces-backlash-after-political-adviser-andrew-fisher-describes-ed-milibands-cabinet-as-a6701911.html …

  • volcanopete
    volcanopete Posts: 2,078
    reading the runes I feel a big sense of what is known in these parts as dayjar voo in that we are heading for another crash.Yet another piece of the pack of cards which is about to collapse-credit card debts,As Osborne cuts tax credits and all,debts will just be transferred from the government's deficit to privately held consumer debt.It's all been done before and it failed.If we are not careful 1990s style deflation will persecute us for decades.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34709254
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TimPBouverie: Andrew Fisher is STILL Jeremy Corbyn's policy adviser despite being suspended from the Labour party by the General Secretary
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    From Andy McSmith's article on Oct 22nd.

    "Mr Fisher was Policy Officer for the civil service union, the Public and Commercial Services Union, working in the office of its General Secretary, Mark Serwotka, who was prevented from voting for Jeremy Corbyn during this year’s leadership contest, presumably because he had previously expressed support for parties to the left of Labour. Previously, Fisher worked for the current Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell."
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought it was all about the tricky technical detail that he as a Labour Party member expressly told others via Twitter to vote Class War?

    That's automatic explusion unless it's whitewashed.
    dr_spyn said:

    Calling Ed Mili's team "absolute shite" may not be the cause of A Fisher's suspension from Lab but won't have helped http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-faces-backlash-after-political-adviser-andrew-fisher-describes-ed-milibands-cabinet-as-a6701911.html …

  • ThomasNashe
    ThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    chestnut said:

    He doesn't seem overly enamoured with Mr and Mrs Balls, nor Emily Benn.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/20/labour-mps-demand-answers-jeremy-corbyn-andrew-fisher

    Vote Class War, indeed.



    Clicking through, I see that Ken Livingstone has recently claimed that 'MPs who regularly defy Labour whip should face reselection'. That's rather puzzling, as I thought he was a Corbyn supporter?
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    By the way, British planes bound for Sharm appear to be scattered at fields all over the southern Med - what a mess by the Egyptians, they are slowing losing what little goodwill they had left with the British tourist industry.

    I understand from a pilot source that a call went out yesterday to airlines and pretty much every spare passenger plane in the UK was made available for the airliftt from Sharm today. Now the Egyptians have turned all the empty planes around and we all wait some more. If they are delayed too long they'll run into things like crew hours limits which make things worse.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Whilst totally unrealistic - wouldn't it be hilarious if the Labour leader was deselected by new members?
    ThomasNashe said:

    chestnut said:

    He doesn't seem overly enamoured with Mr and Mrs Balls, nor Emily Benn.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/20/labour-mps-demand-answers-jeremy-corbyn-andrew-fisher

    Vote Class War, indeed.



    Clicking through, I see that Ken Livingstone has recently claimed that 'MPs who regularly defy Labour whip should face reselection'. That's rather puzzling, as I thought he was a Corbyn supporter?
  • chestnut
    chestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2015
    One of the holes in the analysis is the idea that Osborne has nowhere to turn on tax credits when he clearly does.

    It is fair to say that the public like the idea of strivers, hard working families and responsible behaviour.

    It is also fair to say that they don't like the idea of work avoidance, people being handsomely rewarded for doing the bare minimum, people having large families they can't support and people drawing out heavily without making enough contribution.

    If Osborne can focus on the latter group, and supply much improved communication of the reform, then the public will buy it.

    It is possible. There are some very obvious elements within the claim load that make it achievable.


  • MTimT
    MTimT Posts: 7,034
    Plato_Says said:

    I was on the first commercial flight into Agra [it took about twenty bods in uniform 5hrs to let us leave] and that made Jamaica's concrete henhouse terminal look sophisticated.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Some years ago I flew into Cairo , on to Luxor and then to Assam before returning to Cairo and they were all third world airports with little security. I would not want to go back to Egypt due to security issues which is a shame as it is a wonderful Country to visit
    Hodeidah is the worst airport I've flown into or out of. Descending (in the Queen's flight Andover) with the RAF pilot telling me the last time he was here he was bombing it), no-one from the control tower responded, so we came in with no green light. No-one on the ground at all. Climbed the control tower steps (the elevator was not working) and found everyone - chewing qat.

    Departure was similar. A single Nissen hut with no AC (ambient temperature 44 celsius and 90%+ humidity) with literally no-one there. The commercial airline plane landed, I got on (only passenger), the plane turned around and took off.
  • volcanopete
    volcanopete Posts: 2,078
    off topic-a heads up should #DumpTrump enter your twittersphere.Depending where your money is you may wish to join in

    http://ecowatch.com/2015/11/06/donald-trump-saturday-night-live/
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    IIRC the Egyptians are using the excuse that they can't warehouse all the luggage from UK bound passengers.

    I mean really. It may be hard, but not exactly a showstopper is it.
    Sandpit said:

    By the way, British planes bound for Sharm appear to be scattered at fields all over the southern Med - what a mess by the Egyptians, they are slowing losing what little goodwill they had left with the British tourist industry.

    I understand from a pilot source that a call went out yesterday to airlines and pretty much every spare passenger plane in the UK was made available for the airliftt from Sharm today. Now the Egyptians have turned all the empty planes around and we all wait some more. If they are delayed too long they'll run into things like crew hours limits which make things worse.

  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    dr_spyn said:

    Calling Ed Mili's team "absolute shite" may not be the cause of A Fisher's suspension from Lab but won't have helped http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-faces-backlash-after-political-adviser-andrew-fisher-describes-ed-milibands-cabinet-as-a6701911.html …

    Nothing wrong with a little honesty in politics sometimes!

    Ed's team should have remembered that "setting ambitions in stone" is a metaphorical expression!
  • ThomasNashe
    ThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    dr_spyn said:

    Calling Ed Mili's team "absolute shite" may not be the cause of A Fisher's suspension from Lab but won't have helped http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-faces-backlash-after-political-adviser-andrew-fisher-describes-ed-milibands-cabinet-as-a6701911.html …

    I'd guess that it's mainly because he tried to persuade people to vote for a candidate running against Labour in Croydon South. That's such a clear breach of the party rules that I'd have thought he'd have to go. One wonders why it's taken this long though ...
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Fisher is trending on Twitter at no 1 or 2.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/28/corbyn-adviser-andrew-fisher-backed-non-labour-candidates-three-times

    Looks as if he is a serial offender, backing candidates outside The Labour Party not just 2015, but also 2010. The toast is burning.
  • ThomasNashe
    ThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Plato_Says said:

    Whilst totally unrealistic - wouldn't it be hilarious if the Labour leader was deselected by new members?

    ThomasNashe said:

    chestnut said:

    He doesn't seem overly enamoured with Mr and Mrs Balls, nor Emily Benn.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/20/labour-mps-demand-answers-jeremy-corbyn-andrew-fisher

    Vote Class War, indeed.



    Clicking through, I see that Ken Livingstone has recently claimed that 'MPs who regularly defy Labour whip should face reselection'. That's rather puzzling, as I thought he was a Corbyn supporter?
    It would be funny - but he was genuinely popular in Islington, even before Corbynmania.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,458
    edited November 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Was supposed to be flying to Hurghada two weeks today, for a "beach and Nile cruise" fortnight. Not any more.

    The perverse part of me still wants to go - and stuff two fingers up to the terrorists. But as I have no reason to believe that Hurghada airport is any safer than Sharm - or at least, no confidence that the Egyptian authorities can afford to admit the reality and thereby kill their tourism - the practical side wins out. I think pb.com has had enough of real time bullet-by-bullet blogging on the Arabian beaches for one year.

    And on a practical level, being about the only tourist left in Egypt would mean you were such an obvious target.

    For every hawker and beggar in the country.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Plato_Says said:

    IIRC the Egyptians are using the excuse that they can't warehouse all the luggage from UK bound passengers.

    I mean really. It may be hard, but not exactly a showstopper is it.

    Sandpit said:

    By the way, British planes bound for Sharm appear to be scattered at fields all over the southern Med - what a mess by the Egyptians, they are slowing losing what little goodwill they had left with the British tourist industry.

    I understand from a pilot source that a call went out yesterday to airlines and pretty much every spare passenger plane in the UK was made available for the airliftt from Sharm today. Now the Egyptians have turned all the empty planes around and we all wait some more. If they are delayed too long they'll run into things like crew hours limits which make things worse.

    I bet the UK mil are itching to go in there and sort it out! :D

    They could probably get 20k people out from Sharm to Cyprus in a couple of days if they had to. I've been told that the back of a Herc isn't quite business class but if the job needs doing...
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    Oh dear me.
    A piece published by the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty in 2009 alleges that Fisher urged support for the Green party’s Caroline Lucas, who was then a candidate against David Lepper, the former Labour MP for Brighton Pavilion. Lucas went on to win the seat in 2010.

    Fisher also sent a “personal statement” as secretary to the Labour Representation Committee (LRC) to the Left Unity Liaison Committee asking them to support socialist Green candidates and socialist Labour candidates.

    In 2008, Fisher was reported as attending a Left Unity meeting as a member of the LRC, where he was reported as saying “a growing number of members believed that Labour was now dead”. [It is now, Ed]
    dr_spyn said:

    Fisher is trending on Twitter at no 1 or 2.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/28/corbyn-adviser-andrew-fisher-backed-non-labour-candidates-three-times

    Looks as if he is a serial offender, backing candidates outside The Labour Party not just 2015, but also 2010. The toast is burning.

  • slade
    slade Posts: 2,201
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm really rather impressed at what HMG have done here - not just fiddling about the FO website guidance, but saying Nope to allowing Sharm's bent security to put our citizens at risk.

    I can't recall a similar decision - when if ever did we last do this at a single airport?

    That the Egyptians are playing silly buggers only hurts themselves - and I say this as someone who is very fond of the place in general and would love to go there again at a safer point.

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Listening to the BBC reporting Russia's decision to stop all flights to all of Egypt they cannot bring themselves to referring to the UK's decision now trying to imply it was a Western decision. They really are disapponted that David Cameron and the UK have been vindicated

    Some years ago I flew into Cairo , on to Luxor and then to Assam before returning to Cairo and they were all third world airports with little security. I would not want to go back to Egypt due to security issues which is a shame as it is a wonderful Country to visit
    A flight from Luxor to Assam would have been interesting! I assume it was Aswan.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Brexit vote would trigger a run on the pound, warns Bank of America

    UK's record current account deficit would throw economy into jeopardy as investors flee for exits after a 'Leave' vote"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11979631/Brexit-vote-would-trigger-a-run-on-the-pound-warns-Bank-of-America.html
  • watford30
    watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited November 2015
    Sandpit said:

    Plato_Says said:

    IIRC the Egyptians are using the excuse that they can't warehouse all the luggage from UK bound passengers.

    I mean really. It may be hard, but not exactly a showstopper is it.

    Sandpit said:

    By the way, British planes bound for Sharm appear to be scattered at fields all over the southern Med - what a mess by the Egyptians, they are slowing losing what little goodwill they had left with the British tourist industry.

    I understand from a pilot source that a call went out yesterday to airlines and pretty much every spare passenger plane in the UK was made available for the airliftt from Sharm today. Now the Egyptians have turned all the empty planes around and we all wait some more. If they are delayed too long they'll run into things like crew hours limits which make things worse.

    I bet the UK mil are itching to go in there and sort it out! :D

    They could probably get 20k people out from Sharm to Cyprus in a couple of days if they had to. I've been told that the back of a Herc isn't quite business class but if the job needs doing...
    I bet they're not. The last the RAF want is a C17 exploding over the Med thanks to something nasty slipped into a tourist's backpack.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Regarding Mr Brind's "Osbophiles" comment, of interest which Conservative voters on here want Osborne as the next Leader of the party? I am struggling to think of many.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'd assume that all the luggage UK bound will be UK staff hand searched and sniffed by K9s before going on board.
    watford30 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Plato_Says said:

    IIRC the Egyptians are using the excuse that they can't warehouse all the luggage from UK bound passengers.

    I mean really. It may be hard, but not exactly a showstopper is it.

    Sandpit said:

    By the way, British planes bound for Sharm appear to be scattered at fields all over the southern Med - what a mess by the Egyptians, they are slowing losing what little goodwill they had left with the British tourist industry.

    I understand from a pilot source that a call went out yesterday to airlines and pretty much every spare passenger plane in the UK was made available for the airliftt from Sharm today. Now the Egyptians have turned all the empty planes around and we all wait some more. If they are delayed too long they'll run into things like crew hours limits which make things worse.

    I bet the UK mil are itching to go in there and sort it out! :D

    They could probably get 20k people out from Sharm to Cyprus in a couple of days if they had to. I've been told that the back of a Herc isn't quite business class but if the job needs doing...
    I bet they're not. The last the RAF want is a C17 exploding over the Med thanks to something nasty slipped into a tourist's backpack.

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