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Not even a dead cat bounce

What a start for Jeremy Corbyn and his kinder, gentler politics. Given the way his backers have gone after Mike Gapes highlights how Labour have lost the plot.

Worst ever Labour leader ratings, 13% behind in poll as well.

42/29 shows the scale of Corbyn's challange, irrespective of how much Twitter loves him.

Interesting set of supplementaries from the IOS and the Mirror. All of them have lots of don't knows.

SeanT said:

FORTY FIVE PERCENT of the country - NEARLY AN OUTRIGHT MAJORITY - think that a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

That's just a killer stat. Economic "chaos"?? How on earth do you change perceptions like that? You can't. Corbyn and McDonnell are leading Labour to utter disaster.

Stop being so negative.

If marginal voters didn't like Miliband, then they will love Corbyn.

"ComRes Cameron & Osborne have and 19 point lead over Corbyn & McDonnell on who is trusted more on the economy"

Work to be done there. Should be at least 30.

That said, given the "would lead to economic chaos" answer, those who aren't in the Corbyn/McDonnell camp are very firmly against them.

By contrast, 57% either agree with the government on tax credits or are neutral / don't know. That's enough. You'll never persuade everyone and realistically, you don't need to.

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

FORTY FIVE PERCENT of the country - NEARLY AN OUTRIGHT MAJORITY - think that a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

That's just a killer stat. Economic "chaos"?? How on earth do you change perceptions like that? You can't. Corbyn and McDonnell are leading Labour to utter disaster.

Stop being so negative.

If marginal voters didn't like Miliband, then they will love Corbyn.

Shhh. Don't you know this is 2015 now, the next election will be decided by counting retweets and hashtags #EvilBabyEatingToryScum

Jonathan said:

Meh

Could be worse. There are four Labour voters for every Lib Dem.

Jonathan said:

Meh

To the 45% economic chaos?

or the 19 point economically trusted lead?

david_herdson said:

Philip_Thompson said:

An equally valid headline would be "just a third say that a Labour government would not lead to economic chaos" with a red highlight around that claim.

But 13% government lead during an opposition leaders honeymoon period. Wow.

[my italics]

It's not though. It's a government's post-election honeymoon period.

Back in October 2010 the scores on the doors with ComRes were

Con 41 and Lab 39

SeanT said:

Six months of this kind of polling and Labour MPs will have to make a move against Le Corb.

But they have no cojones. Due to AWS.

SimonStClare said:

“Jeremy Corbyn is a danger to National Security”

Can’t remember this question ever being asked of previous party leaders - Is it a JC special..?

Everything about JC is special. He is breaking new ground.

SimonStClare said:

“Jeremy Corbyn is a danger to National Security”

Can’t remember this question ever being asked of previous party leaders - Is it a JC special..?

No previous party leader ever invited terrorists as guests to Parliament, the week after those same terrorists tried to assassinate the PM and half the government.

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just wait until the EU referendum

@tom_ComRes: 2 in 3 Britons see Corbyn's Labour Party as divided. Compare: more think Cameron's Tories are united than divided

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CReDL0nXAAAC_j4.jpg

55% now back right wing parties. That's almost a 2:1 lead over Labour.

If only we had AV instead of FPTP, we could have a 1000 year right wing hegemony in this country.

Plato_Says said:

The whole cemetery worth of skeletons doesn't seem to have provoked Labour MPs into action - it's all so surreal.

Any other leader of any party bar would've been forced out for just one or two of them - Jezza has coffins worth and somehow it's just reset the unacceptable limbo bar to under the barrel.

I honestly can't comprehend it. Even being found in bed with a dead boy wouldn't change things. Watson would find a way to blame Murdoch for it.

SimonStClare said:

“Jeremy Corbyn is a danger to National Security”

Can’t remember this question ever being asked of previous party leaders - Is it a JC special..?

Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.

Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other." One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual's response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Keiran on this poll

If this poll is 'right' then Labour plus every Green and Lib Dem vote still leaves the party behind the Cons tonight

SeanT said:

DavidL said:

SeanT said:

Six months of this kind of polling and Labour MPs will have to make a move against Le Corb.

As I said on the previous thread:

"Labour back benchers do not challenge their leaders no matter how pathetic, mental or just plain useless they are. I mean 200 of them voted for McDonnell and Corbyn's completely incoherent position just this week."

SLAB followed their leadership over the cliff with barely a dissenting voice. Nick still gives an interesting insight into how these people think. It is hopeless.

Only ill health or a collapse of confidence on the part of Corbyn himself is going to change this.

I know what you mean, but I demur. The Labour party very nearly got rid of Brown, and he had serious support amongst MPs, and he wasn't clearly leading Labour to total oblivion.

Yes, Labour MPs are spineless dorks, like NPXMP, but like NPXMP, they are also careerists. Corbyn could end their careers. This will focus attention.

PS I don't want to be mean to Nick all the time, it's boring. But his support for the odious Corbyn/McDonnelll makes it unavoidable.

When you have a vegan in charge of agriculture I don't fancy your chances of finding a back bone. But we shall see.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

FORTY FIVE PERCENT of the country - NEARLY AN OUTRIGHT MAJORITY - think that a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

That's just a killer stat. Economic "chaos"?? How on earth do you change perceptions like that? You can't. Corbyn and McDonnell are leading Labour to utter disaster.

Stop being so negative.

If marginal voters didn't like Miliband, then they will love Corbyn.

Shhh. Don't you know this is 2015 now, the next election will be decided by counting retweets and hashtags #EvilBabyEatingToryScum

It was funny, I accidentally opened up a thread from the election campaign.

The Tory activists like Marquee Mark, Notme and myself who were out there were seeing the Ed Miliband drag factor out there, whilst twitter was jizzing itself inside out over the Milifandom.

Edit: Also Corbyn will get a boost when Russell Brand endorses him.

I was out of the country for the second half of the short campaign, but there appeared to be a lot of Labour activists who thought that talking to themselves would somehow win over the swing voters. Tory activists I know were saying the same as you, but like most I didn't think the majority was possible - even when someone bet £30k on it!

Sean_F said:

Fun polling finding of the day according to Yougov.

If Jeremy Corbyn became PM, 42% of Conservatives and 39% of UKIP would support a military coup.

I'm doing tomorrow afternoon's thread on that.

Allez les blues.

Brilliant - that it was even asked is hilarious and appalling.

Sean_F said:

Fun polling finding of the day according to Yougov.

If Jeremy Corbyn became PM, 42% of Conservatives and 39% of UKIP would support a military coup.

Sean_F said:

Fun polling finding of the day according to Yougov.

If Jeremy Corbyn became PM, 42% of Conservatives and 39% of UKIP would support a military coup.

What the f...! They actually asked that question?

Meh, ComRes always show massive Tory leads; they've shown Tory leads of around 11 - 14 since May this year after their methodology change. What'll be more interesting is to see the VI of other pollsters.

The_Apocalypse said:

Meh, ComRes always show massive Tory leads; they've shown Tory leads of around 11 - 14 since May this year after their methodology change. What'll be more interesting is to see the VI of other pollsters.

ComRes are the gold standard. They were the most accurate* pollster at the general election

(*OK technically they were the least inaccurate)

david_herdson said:

By contrast, 57% either agree with the government on tax credits or are neutral / don't know. That's enough. You'll never persuade everyone and realistically, you don't need to.

LMAO, taking "don't know" to mean tacit agreement is a new peak of spin even by PBTories' standards. By that logic, I might as well say 60% of people think Corbyn is a strong leader.

Danny565 said:

david_herdson said:

By contrast, 57% either agree with the government on tax credits or are neutral / don't know. That's enough. You'll never persuade everyone and realistically, you don't need to.

LMAO, taking "don't know" to mean tacit agreement is a new peak of spin even by PBTories' standards. By that logic, I might as well say 60% of people think Corbyn is a strong leader.

This, 100%. Plainly more people than not don't buy into the Conservative argument.

SeanT said:

Bloody hell. The All Blacks.

The greatest rugby match I've ever seen was France v the All Blacks in the 1999 world cup.

The_Apocalypse said:

Danny565 said:

david_herdson said:

By contrast, 57% either agree with the government on tax credits or are neutral / don't know. That's enough. You'll never persuade everyone and realistically, you don't need to.

LMAO, taking "don't know" to mean tacit agreement is a new peak of spin even by PBTories' standards. By that logic, I might as well say 60% of people think Corbyn is a strong leader.

This, 100%. Plainly more people than not don't buy into the Conservative argument.

I think this is misrepresenting David's argument.

He is talking about it in terms of risk management for the Tories.

Politically, there is no need for them to be carrying a thumping majority of the country on this issue. But they do need to make sure it doesn't blow up on them.

This isn't a great poll, but there's an argument (which David is making) that this is decent enough.

He is very very far from saying "if I count don't knows as agreement, then the country agrees with this". As one of the more analytical posters on here, as well as one of the best informed and most in-touch, it would be silly to discount or misrepresent what David says on the grounds it some kind of wishfully-thought slavering Tory fanboy whitewash.

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

FORTY FIVE PERCENT of the country - NEARLY AN OUTRIGHT MAJORITY - think that a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

That's just a killer stat. Economic "chaos"?? How on earth do you change perceptions like that? You can't. Corbyn and McDonnell are leading Labour to utter disaster.

Stop being so negative.

If marginal voters didn't like Miliband, then they will love Corbyn.

Shhh. Don't you know this is 2015 now, the next election will be decided by counting retweets and hashtags #EvilBabyEatingToryScum

It was funny, I accidentally opened up a thread from the election campaign.

The Tory activists like Marquee Mark, Notme and myself who were out there were seeing the Ed Miliband drag factor out there, whilst twitter was jizzing itself inside out over the Milifandom.

Edit: Also Corbyn will get a boost when Russell Brand endorses him.

I can honestly say I never met anyone on the doorstep who had a good thing to say about Ed Miliband. However, I do expect some to say they strongly believe in Jeremy. But nowhere near enough to make up for those who just slink away from Labour.

Did you notice that the only perception the voters had of Miliband was from the start of his leadership? He was the weirdo that stabbed his brother in the back.

If first impressions count then Corbyn is fecked for 2020.

The_Apocalypse said:

What's odd about this poll is that the support for Labour supporting austerity (40%) doesn't appear to correlate with the findings that 45% think a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

I think the technical term is cognitive dissonance. Its depressingly common.

I think that NZ have got to this point in the world cup without getting out of second gear. They seem to be moving up a few tonight. France need to hang on.

MyBurningEars said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Danny565 said:

david_herdson said:

By contrast, 57% either agree with the government on tax credits or are neutral / don't know. That's enough. You'll never persuade everyone and realistically, you don't need to.

LMAO, taking "don't know" to mean tacit agreement is a new peak of spin even by PBTories' standards. By that logic, I might as well say 60% of people think Corbyn is a strong leader.

This, 100%. Plainly more people than not don't buy into the Conservative argument.

I think this is misrepresenting David's argument.

He is talking about it in terms of risk management for the Tories.

But it still makes no sense. Answering "don't know" to a question does not mean you're neutral about it - it means you aren't aware of the issue yet / haven't heard about it in the news yet, or that you're waiting for more information to make up your mind.

DavidL said:

The_Apocalypse said:

What's odd about this poll is that the support for Labour supporting austerity (40%) doesn't appear to correlate with the findings that 45% think a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

I think the technical term is cognitive dissonance. Its depressingly common.

The only explanation I can think of is that although people are starting to get fed up government policy re the cuts, they still don't trust Labour to manage the economy. Otherwise those stats really are reflective of cognitive dissonance.

The_Apocalypse said:

What's odd about this poll is that the support for Labour supporting austerity (40%) doesn't appear to correlate with the findings that 45% think a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

People instinctively like the idea of a free lunch even though they know it would be madness to actually go down that route.

SeanT said:

Danny565 said:

david_herdson said:

By contrast, 57% either agree with the government on tax credits or are neutral / don't know. That's enough. You'll never persuade everyone and realistically, you don't need to.

LMAO, taking "don't know" to mean tacit agreement is a new peak of spin even by PBTories' standards. By that logic, I might as well say 60% of people think Corbyn is a strong leader.

If there is a prize for pb stupidity, then I'm afraid it must go to lefties who support Corbyn in the face of truly catastrophic polling, like this.

I don't get it. You're clearly not an actual moron, yet you express apparently moronic opinions. Corbynism is a most peculiar pathology.

It's a desire for ideological purity. Although many on the left go on about the Nasty Tories' ideological need to destroy anyone poorer than them, to wipe their shoes on the frozen hair of homeless people, and to make the world's most EVIL baby purée, the truth is that the left is far more ideological than the right.

In the UK at least.

It's why NPXMPMPMPXX and others are supporting Corbyn: they never really lost their ideology, however perverted and twisted that ideology is.

It's why leftists can go around saying - and excusing - all the things we have seen and heard recently, such as the spitting. It's okay because their hideous and bankrupt (in every sense of the term) ideology allows it.

The_Apocalypse said:

What's odd about this poll is that the support for Labour supporting austerity (40%) doesn't appear to correlate with the findings that 45% think a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

Because Labour's economic troubles have never been about how much they support austerity. It's just been about the perception that they're incompetent and couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery.

An Election Day poll also found a plurality of people saying they thought a Miliband government should cut spending/the deficit slower than they planned to (39% said slower, compared to 34% who said they should do it quicker than they planned), at the very same time they said they didn't trust Labour to run the economy. This was a poll which correctly predicted the election outcome.

http://www.gqrr.com/uk-post-election-2

AndyJS said:

The_Apocalypse said:

What's odd about this poll is that the support for Labour supporting austerity (40%) doesn't appear to correlate with the findings that 45% think a Labour government would lead to economic chaos.

People instinctively like the idea of a free lunch even though they know it would be madness to actually go down that route.

Or: they don't like austerity (and who does really; it's a sign things have gone wrong), but they don't like, or believe, Labour's alternative? Or perhaps they think austerity is needed, but Labour needs to argue against it to stop the government going too far?

Or perhaps they are not goldfish and can remember back a few years.

Don't take my word on sport after this afternoon's exploits, but this is looking like a walk in the park for the All Blacks.

SeanT said:

France facing possibly an historic tonking here.

The current score seriously flatters them. How long can they only let the odd wave come through their defences? This is brutal.

Sean_F said:

Fun polling finding of the day according to Yougov.

If Jeremy Corbyn became PM, 42% of Conservatives and 39% of UKIP would support a military coup.

The fruitcake, loony and closet racists wings of both parties rounded up into one handy intersection.

SeanT said:

All Blax are in a different class, playing a different game.

How do they do it? Year after year. It's a fascinating phenomenon.

Only Oz can possibly stop them.

Sheer body strength. It takes three players to drag down a Kiwi. That leaves two Kiwis free....

Anyway, good to see a fellow member of the Commonwealth drubbing the cheese-eating surrender monkeys...

The_Apocalypse said:

I don't agree the Left are more ideological than the Right; both sets are pretty ideological. Certainly between 1997-2005, the Conservative party clung to Thatcherism like an umblical cord clings to a womb. Arguably, the Tories in their first few months in government alone have shown how very ideological they are; with this awfully simplistic view that anything related to the private sector is amazing and wonderful, and anything related to the state is awful and needs to be shredded. The difference, the Tories have a electable face to put on their ideology in David Cameron, and the common sense to conceal some of the more undesirable parts of their party. Labour doesn't.

Generally I would say the European Left is more ideological than the European right, whereas in the US it is the right which is more ideological than the left

The_Apocalypse said:

I don't agree the Left are more ideological than the Right; both sets are pretty ideological. Certainly between 1997-2005, the Conservative party clung to Thatcherism like an umblical cord clings to a womb. Arguably, the Tories in their first few months in government alone have shown how very ideological they are; with this awfully simplistic view that anything related to the private sector is amazing and wonderful, and anything related to the state is awful and needs to be shredded. The difference, the Tories have a electable face to put on their ideology in David Cameron, and the common sense to conceal some of the more undesirable parts of their party. Labour doesn't.

What about ideological lefties such as Corbyn, who found it perfectly reasonable to befriend terrorists who not only attempted to kill Thatcher and the government, but many innocent civilians as well? And that's just one small part of his hideous ideology.

"Tories in their first few months in government alone have shown how very ideological they are; with this awfully simplistic view that anything related to the private sector is amazing and wonderful, and anything related to the state is awful and needs to be shredded."

Rubbish. Absolute, utter rubbish.

But if you believe that, then surely you must also believe that Labour are showing how very ideological they are; with this awfully simplistic view that anything related to the private sector needs to be shredded, and anything related to the state is amazing and wonderful ?

I rest my case.

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

All Blax are in a different class, playing a different game.

How do they do it? Year after year. It's a fascinating phenomenon.

Only Oz can possibly stop them.

Sheer body strength. It takes three players to drag down a Kiwi. That leaves two Kiwis free....

Anyway, good to see a fellow member of the Commonwealth drubbing the cheese-eating surrender monkeys...

They play the game in a continent where rugby league is dominant. It is not strength as such, it is the pace they exhibit their skills.
The final is likely to be a test of the Australian defensive skills against the New Zealand attacking ones.

What strength, what a try.

Ack, we could have four Southern hemisphere teams in the semis.

Ugh

flightpath01 said:

Great try from NZ, worthy of Billy Boston. But it was not simply the upper body strength, it was the footwork.

PS
Plus of course the way they moved the ball to the wing. Clearly they are going to be using the high ball to try to destroy the fullback or any other poor soul under it. Wingers watch out.

New Zealand are an amazing combination of strength and grace. Irresistible rugby.