politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Volkswagen – the Lance Armstrong of the global auto-mobile

Dair said:

TGOHF said:

Dair said:

Electric cars are a technological dead end.

Every penny invested by government is a complete waste of money.

Fuel Cell technology exists. It works exactly the way we use vehicles today. It is where any support should be going.

lead acid was overtaken by NiMh then Lithium - which are moving forward with sulphurs and other additives - it's hard and slow but they keep getting better.

Fuel cell have their own problems too - not just the small matter of finding safe H2 delivery systems - the power density isn't great so you could go 2000 miles on a tank but it would take you 2 minutes to go from 0-60.

Fuel Cell vehicles do not burn Hydrogen to provide work. They burn Hydrogen to create electricity and the electricity drives the vehicle.

The performance is not an issue.

So how do you increase the pressure to sustain the energy output? The hydrogen cycle is not an easy problem to solve. If it was someone would already have done it and massively disrupted the market. Atomisation of water takes an insane amount of energy and there are no catalysts to brinf the energy barrier down to a reasonable level. It requires ultra high temperature molten salt reactors as a part of the equation, which is billions in investment and state subsidies.

Luckyguy1983 said:

SeanT said:

flightpath01 said:

The purpose of the deception was to lower the NO2 emissions. Will this affect to any significant degree the fuel consumption? Possibly not. That is a different metric where companies have to pass a certain average for all the cars they produce.
Diesel cars became popular when the great crime was CO2 - now they realise that diesels give out NO2.
Whatever the emissions - every time you slow down and go over a speed hump and move away you put up your emissions - at the very areas where these emissions are not wanted - and ruin your suspension as well.

VW are stupid - but they are in good company

Consumers won't notice the nuances. In future, car buyers will just think "Hmm, VW, aren't they the car company that lies a lot?"

Given that VW's absolute USPs were *Teutonic integrity* and *reliable engineering* this could be catastrophic. My guess is that the company will survive, albeit diminished.

The best hope for them is that others are also caught, spreading the muck.

Who'd have though there'd be a positive in us not having any British car firms any more?

we are one of Europe's largest engine manufacturers.

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Tissue_Price said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

What's the German word for schadenfreude?

Now now, TSE. We should be magnanimous and make clear that honest capitalist refugees fleeing the corrupt corporatist catastrophe will be welcome here.

I love the Germans and Germany. German cars are one of my luxuries in life.

TSE = Eddy VIII

I prefer to see myself as Ed IV, or maybe Edward Longshanks or Cœur de Lion but would prefer to be George VI.

Longshanks was Malleus Scrotum.

Why do you think I chose him?

MaxPB said:

JosiasJessop said:

MaxPB said:

Dair said:

Ghedebrav said:

MikeSmithson said:

MaxPB said:

MikeSmithson said:

felix said:

Diesel cars are the norm on the continent and are much more fuel efficient than petrol. The VW fiddle has not changed that. The biggest negative here could well be for the reputation of the German car industry. It remains to be seen if others will be drawn into the net.

They are nothing like as fuel efficient as Toyota hybrids.

Nissan Leaf.

Problem about a Nissan Leaf is the range.

And battery capacity decline over time.

I love electric cars from an engineering efficiency POV. There seems something objectively strange about still being in a position where filling a tank with liquid hydrocarbons extracted from beneath the earth, and then sort of blowing it up, is most effective way to propel our vehicles.

That said, the motor vehicle (buses excepted) as mass urban transit solution is also highly inefficient.

Electric cars are a technological dead end.

Every penny invested by government is a complete waste of money.

Fuel Cell technology exists. It works exactly the way we use vehicles today. It is where any support should be going.

Manufacture of hydrogen requires serious investment and a whole new way of energy generation. Unless you mean hydrocarbon fuel cells, which are not exactly less polluting than standard cars.

No, advancement in battery and capacitor technology is where we need to look. The best part is that private industry will do it without subsidy because phone users want better battery life.

Progress in battery technology is also exceptionally slow afaik, and uses batsh*t insane amounts of rare earths and other scarce materials.

True, but I don't see enthusiasm for molten salt reactors and ultra high temperature atomisation of water for the hydrogen economy being high enough to sustain a hydrogen fuel cycle. It would also require massive government subsidies and investment guarantees as well. Companies like Sony and Samsung are willing to invest their own money into battery tech, I would let them do it.

Bio-production is the future of Hydrogen production, it's not far away. It would be commercial already if a fraction of the backing from governments had gone into this instead of the dead end of charged electric vehicles.

MaxPB said:

Dair said:

TGOHF said:

Dair said:

Electric cars are a technological dead end.

Every penny invested by government is a complete waste of money.

Fuel Cell technology exists. It works exactly the way we use vehicles today. It is where any support should be going.

lead acid was overtaken by NiMh then Lithium - which are moving forward with sulphurs and other additives - it's hard and slow but they keep getting better.

Fuel cell have their own problems too - not just the small matter of finding safe H2 delivery systems - the power density isn't great so you could go 2000 miles on a tank but it would take you 2 minutes to go from 0-60.

Fuel Cell vehicles do not burn Hydrogen to provide work. They burn Hydrogen to create electricity and the electricity drives the vehicle.

The performance is not an issue.

So how do you increase the pressure to sustain the energy output? The hydrogen cycle is not an easy problem to solve. If it was someone would already have done it and massively disrupted the market. Atomisation of water takes an insane amount of energy and there are no catalysts to brinf the energy barrier down to a reasonable level. It requires ultra high temperature molten salt reactors as a part of the equation, which is billions in investment and state subsidies.

Agree, but neither tech is anywhere near being a replacement for petrol/diesel engines yet, and the challenges are very different for both.

I don't know whether you've seen this from the stupid-patents dept:
http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/17/apple-patents-fuel-cell-power-source-for-phones-laptops/

Or this:
http://www.gizmag.com/usb-charger-butane-fuel-cell-nectar-lilliputian-systems-brookstone/28281/

Alanbrooke said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

SeanT said:

flightpath01 said:

The purpose of the deception was to lower the NO2 emissions. Will this affect to any significant degree the fuel consumption? Possibly not. That is a different metric where companies have to pass a certain average for all the cars they produce.
Diesel cars became popular when the great crime was CO2 - now they realise that diesels give out NO2.
Whatever the emissions - every time you slow down and go over a speed hump and move away you put up your emissions - at the very areas where these emissions are not wanted - and ruin your suspension as well.

VW are stupid - but they are in good company

Consumers won't notice the nuances. In future, car buyers will just think "Hmm, VW, aren't they the car company that lies a lot?"

Given that VW's absolute USPs were *Teutonic integrity* and *reliable engineering* this could be catastrophic. My guess is that the company will survive, albeit diminished.

The best hope for them is that others are also caught, spreading the muck.

Who'd have though there'd be a positive in us not having any British car firms any more?

we are one of Europe's largest engine manufacturers.

Yes, but someone else will carry the financial can.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder what Edward II would have made of piggate?

lunch

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder what Edward II would have made of piggate?

He'd have envied the pig, considering what was (reputedly) inserted in his case.

Dair said:

MaxPB said:

JosiasJessop said:

MaxPB said:

Dair said:

Ghedebrav said:

MikeSmithson said:

MaxPB said:

MikeSmithson said:

felix said:

Diesel cars are the norm on the continent and are much more fuel efficient than petrol. The VW fiddle has not changed that. The biggest negative here could well be for the reputation of the German car industry. It remains to be seen if others will be drawn into the net.

They are nothing like as fuel efficient as Toyota hybrids.

Nissan Leaf.

Problem about a Nissan Leaf is the range.

And battery capacity decline over time.

I love electric cars from an engineering efficiency POV. There seems something objectively strange about still being in a position where filling a tank with liquid hydrocarbons extracted from beneath the earth, and then sort of blowing it up, is most effective way to propel our vehicles.

That said, the motor vehicle (buses excepted) as mass urban transit solution is also highly inefficient.

Electric cars are a technological dead end.

Every penny invested by government is a complete waste of money.

Fuel Cell technology exists. It works exactly the way we use vehicles today. It is where any support should be going.

Manufacture of hydrogen requires serious investment and a whole new way of energy generation. Unless you mean hydrocarbon fuel cells, which are not exactly less polluting than standard cars.

No, advancement in battery and capacitor technology is where we need to look. The best part is that private industry will do it without subsidy because phone users want better battery life.

Progress in battery technology is also exceptionally slow afaik, and uses batsh*t insane amounts of rare earths and other scarce materials.

True, but I don't see enthusiasm for molten salt reactors and ultra high temperature atomisation of water for the hydrogen economy being high enough to sustain a hydrogen fuel cycle. It would also require massive government subsidies and investment guarantees as well. Companies like Sony and Samsung are willing to invest their own money into battery tech, I would let them do it.

Bio-production is the future of Hydrogen production, it's not far away. It would be commercial already if a fraction of the backing from governments had gone into this instead of the dead end of charged electric vehicles.

Wasn't the algae based production a scam in the end?

MaxPB said:

JosiasJessop said:

Yep, but I'm not sure that battery technology is scalable to the necessary degree either, given their requirements in (admittedly often misnamed) rare earths.

But it's not just a question of energy density in the battery; there's also the charging time problem as well. ISTR that the new fast-charging tech that is coming in is incompatible with the highest densities batteries.

And they'll always be lugging a few hundred kilos of batteries around, which have a limited lifetime.

I'm not sure either, I just think it is an easier problem to solve than the hydrogen fuel cycle. Fast charging is compatible with Li-Po batteries which are the most dense batteries, but I'm not sure how widespread usage of Li-Po is in the auto industry, aiui most still us Li-ion.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on particular battery techs - it's way out of my area (although I know someone to ask However, I thought that some of the fast charging techs (there are more than one being developed) were incompatible with certain forthcoming battery techs?

Where you may have a point is that there are many companies developing battery tech, so one or other may hit on the solution (either alone or in combination), whilst the fuel-cell problem might need much more expensive big-bang research.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Tissue_Price said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

What's the German word for schadenfreude?

Now now, TSE. We should be magnanimous and make clear that honest capitalist refugees fleeing the corrupt corporatist catastrophe will be welcome here.

I love the Germans and Germany. German cars are one of my luxuries in life.

TSE = Eddy VIII

I prefer to see myself as Ed IV, or maybe Edward Longshanks or Cœur de Lion but would prefer to be George VI.

Longshanks was Malleus Scrotum.

Why do you think I chose him?

Hammer of the Scrotes.

TGOHF said:

Dair said:

MaxPB said:

Dair said:

Fuel Cell vehicles do not burn Hydrogen to provide work. They burn Hydrogen to create electricity and the electricity drives the vehicle.

The performance is not an issue.

So you need chemical batteries on board. Whats your point ?

You don't have to stop every 100 miles and wait around for several hours.

Science suggest that 4x current capacity is achievable - once you have 400 miles you are in the same ball park as a tank of petrol.

Probably the solution will be a fuel cell with a large battery to cope with power surges and - so you need both technologies.

Well with a fuel cell a capacitor could be used which changes the game, but I'm not sure that high pressure hydrogen could fill the capacitors faster than they would be drained. It would still require ultra high pressure storage.

flightpath01 said:

''MaxPB said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11881954/Volkswagen-emissions-scandal-Which-other-cars-fail-to-meet-pollution-safety-limits.html
Names VW, Audi, BMW, Opel and Citroen as major culprits. 4 Germans and a French.''

''Jesus. Basically the entire German car industry.''

Opel are owned by GM (Amercan) and are the same as Vauxhall - which a British brand which builds cars on Merseyside.
All BMW 3 and 4 cylinder engines are built in Birmingham - thats for every 3/4 cylinder BMW in the world. To date over 3.5 million engines have been built at there.

Jaguar Land Rover have just built a multimillion pound diesel engine plant in the midlands.
Ford have just opened a £500 million diesel engine plant in Essex

Be careful what you all wish for.

Don't forget JCB's record-breaking engine.

JosiasJessop said:

Alanbrooke said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Alanbrooke said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

SeanT said:

flightpath01 said:

The purpose of the deception was to lower the NO2 emissions. Will this affect to any significant degree the fuel consumption? Possibly not. That is a different metric where companies have to pass a certain average for all the cars they produce.
Diesel cars became popular when the great crime was CO2 - now they realise that diesels give out NO2.
Whatever the emissions - every time you slow down and go over a speed hump and move away you put up your emissions - at the very areas where these emissions are not wanted - and ruin your suspension as well.

VW are stupid - but they are in good company

Consumers won't notice the nuances. In future, car buyers will just think "Hmm, VW, aren't they the car company that lies a lot?"

Given that VW's absolute USPs were *Teutonic integrity* and *reliable engineering* this could be catastrophic. My guess is that the company will survive, albeit diminished.

The best hope for them is that others are also caught, spreading the muck.

Who'd have though there'd be a positive in us not having any British car firms any more?

we are one of Europe's largest engine manufacturers.

Yes, but someone else will carry the financial can.

are you nuts ?

if the engine plants get stopped then people lose their jobs.

Currently we have plants from Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, JLR, Honda. Most of them ship worldwide as engines get shared.

They won't get stopped for more than a few days. That's as certain as anything in this. At best it'll be a rapid software change.

I said that on the previous thread since nobody can afford to stop production.

But governments will be crawling all over this and it will be easier to adapt the legislation than change production. Car plants work on flow production, if you bugger about with it too much it takes ages to get the flow right again.

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder what Edward II would have made of piggate?

He'd have envied the pig, considering what was (reputedly) inserted in his case.

While this particular story has caused immense glee to generations of schoolboys over the centuries, it's almost certainly apocryphal.

On the one hand, Maltravers & Co. were ordered to kill Edward II by a method that would appear like death by natural causes; on the other, Edward's screams were supposedly so loud that people could hear them in the town of Berkeley, and knelt in the snow to pray for him.

Modern doctors think that it's unlikely that insertion of a red hot poker in the rectum would immediately kill the victim, but rather, he'd die of peritonitis.

Alanbrooke said:

JosiasJessop said:

Alanbrooke said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Alanbrooke said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

SeanT said:

flightpath01 said:

The purpose of the deception was to lower the NO2 emissions. Will this affect to any significant degree the fuel consumption? Possibly not. That is a different metric where companies have to pass a certain average for all the cars they produce.
Diesel cars became popular when the great crime was CO2 - now they realise that diesels give out NO2.
Whatever the emissions - every time you slow down and go over a speed hump and move away you put up your emissions - at the very areas where these emissions are not wanted - and ruin your suspension as well.

VW are stupid - but they are in good company

Consumers won't notice the nuances. In future, car buyers will just think "Hmm, VW, aren't they the car company that lies a lot?"

Given that VW's absolute USPs were *Teutonic integrity* and *reliable engineering* this could be catastrophic. My guess is that the company will survive, albeit diminished.

The best hope for them is that others are also caught, spreading the muck.

Who'd have though there'd be a positive in us not having any British car firms any more?

we are one of Europe's largest engine manufacturers.

Yes, but someone else will carry the financial can.

are you nuts ?

if the engine plants get stopped then people lose their jobs.

Currently we have plants from Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, JLR, Honda. Most of them ship worldwide as engines get shared.

They won't get stopped for more than a few days. That's as certain as anything in this. At best it'll be a rapid software change.

I said that on the previous thread since nobody can afford to stop production.

But governments will be crawling all over this and it will be easier to adapt the legislation than change production. Car plants work on flow production, if you bugger about with it too much it takes ages to get the flow right again.

Yet legislative changes will require changes in every country in the world the relevant engine is sold to, and in any legislative groupings (e.g. EU). Given that regulatory change takes time, and some countries may use delays to damage foreign competitors, it must still be easier to take the production hit required to 'fix' the fixed engines.

currystar said:

I am convinced that british bookmakers will be outed in a similar way at some point regarding FOBTs

Yes - they're a licence to print money, so much so that the major bookies are rushing to open more and more high street shops to accommmodate these machines, even in locations where they are already well represented.
At the very least and as a first step, the government should more severely restrict the number of machines allowed in each shop.

Charles said:

Alanbrooke said:

JEO said:

Of course it is a powerful lobby in the EU. The German manufacturers get preferential protection like the French farmers do.

If the wrongdoing is common place in the industry one impact could be that the automakers have less credibility to speak out on the European referendum.

and british bankers.

who has gone to jail here ? One bloke, yet billions have been earned corruptly.

It's never enough is it with you lot.

Moan a minute. Never satisfied!

No one's been jailed you say. So we find someone & now you want more?

/removes tongue from cheek

would that be a pig's cheek ?

( you did go to Oxford after all ) :-)

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.
Hydrogen does not come naturally - it has to be produced and in producing it there are carbon emissions. Natural gas coal and LPG are used to produce hydrogen.

Isn't the problem high-altitude water vapour, rather than low-level? And the atmosphere has a rather wonderful water vapour clearance system which I can hear on the windows as I type.

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

peter_from_putney said:

currystar said:

I am convinced that british bookmakers will be outed in a similar way at some point regarding FOBTs

Yes - they're a licence to print money, so much so that the major bookies are rushing to open more and more high street shops to accommmodate these machines, even in locations where they are already well represented.
At the very least and as a first step, the government should more severely restrict the number of machines allowed in each shop.

Is that not already the issue in some places (ie why you get multiple branches of the same bookmaker virtually next to each other).

I am not generally one for nanny-state regulation, but I do wonder if the restriction should be on FOBT's not to be more than 10% of Revenue or something... (and any above that is taxed at 100%). Haven't thought through any details at all, so almost certainly doesn't work, but I can certainly see a societal advantage to regulation of some sort.

Tissue_Price said:

Anyone? Not that I've felt this way on PB, of course. Well, at least not for 20 minutes or so.

https://twitter.com/helenlewis/status/646305223728828416

There is (it's one of my favourite words): VELLEITY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velleity

The marketer Matt Bailey described it as "a desire to see something done, but not enough desire to make it happen"

JosiasJessop said:

flightpath01 said:

''MaxPB said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11881954/Volkswagen-emissions-scandal-Which-other-cars-fail-to-meet-pollution-safety-limits.html
Names VW, Audi, BMW, Opel and Citroen as major culprits. 4 Germans and a French.''

''Jesus. Basically the entire German car industry.''

Opel are owned by GM (Amercan) and are the same as Vauxhall - which a British brand which builds cars on Merseyside.
All BMW 3 and 4 cylinder engines are built in Birmingham - thats for every 3/4 cylinder BMW in the world. To date over 3.5 million engines have been built at there.

Jaguar Land Rover have just built a multimillion pound diesel engine plant in the midlands.
Ford have just opened a £500 million diesel engine plant in Essex

Be careful what you all wish for.

Don't forget JCB's record-breaking engine.

Who could ever. lt does bring in all the lorry van and HGV engines. GB has a big investment in vehicle engines. As drivers this scandal is only going to make driving more expensive for us.

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:

currystar said:

I am convinced that british bookmakers will be outed in a similar way at some point regarding FOBTs

When I was Thinking of becoming a UKIP candidate, I wrote to the policy makers suggesting a way to banish FOBT's would be to make any shop that had one apply for a license as an amusement arcade and withdraw the ability to take sports bets... they are a social menace

You really need to push on that - you're knowledgeable and it appears a thoroughly justifiable campaign.

Cheers, well UKIP were bang on it actually, but unfortunately, not enuff seats!

Tom Watson is banging the drum, but the govt don't seem interested

Don't stop. Make it a little campaign; write to MPs. Talk to Watson (I known that's a hideous thought, but never mind) or his team. Shout. Scream. Collect case histories of people who've been hurt by FOBT's. Write to newspapers. Ignore me and listen to the people on PB who actually have a clue about how to organise a campaign.

Use it as a good campaign on which to build a future political career ...

SeanT said:

ON topic, just heard a fairly convincing rumour that THE ICE TWINS, by cryptic Cornish authoress S K Tremayne, is...

Number One on the UK bestseller list. Number ONE.

*swoons Byronically*

I saw a bit of blurb concluding "S.K. Tremayne has two daughters". Nicely done.

Lovely.

Charles said:

Tissue_Price said:

Anyone? Not that I've felt this way on PB, of course. Well, at least not for 20 minutes or so.

ttps://twitter.com/helenlewis/status/646305223728828416

There is (it's one of my favourite words): VELLEITY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velleity

The marketer Matt Bailey described it as "a desire to see something done, but not enough desire to make it happen"

Cameron's reaction to pig-gate:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34328067

Quite funny.

MattW said:

Labour Councillor. Ouch.

https://twitter.com/SocialistChris/status/645549438002405376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

The stats are fake, of course - and debunked weeks ago.

Classy

Dair said:

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

''A new study from scientists at the University of Miami Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science and colleagues confirms rising levels of water vapor in the upper troposphere – a key amplifier of global warming – will intensify climate change impacts over the next decades. The new study is the first to show that increased water vapor concentrations in the atmosphere are a direct result of human activities.
“The study is the first to confirm that human activities have increased water vapor in the upper troposphere,” said Brian Soden, professor of atmospheric sciences at the UM Rosenstiel School and co-author of the study.''
This may be all bogus science but they claim the water vapour is increasing and amplifying the effects of dreaded AGM.
(from WUWT)

Hydrogen has to be produced using electricity. Then pressurised if its to be used as a liquid. Transported and stored. Safely.
Why not just use the electricity in the first place.

flightpath01 said:

Dair said:

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

(snip)

Hydrogen has to be produced using electricity. Then pressurised if its to be used as a liquid. Transported and stored. Safely.
Why not just use the electricity in the first place.

Because we are absolutely nowhere near getting the required energy density from batteries, yet alone the other problems (lifetime, recharge rate etc).

TGOHF said:

JosiasJessop said:

flightpath01 said:

Dair said:

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

(snip)

Hydrogen has to be produced using electricity. Then pressurised if its to be used as a liquid. Transported and stored. Safely.
Why not just use the electricity in the first place.

Because we are absolutely nowhere near getting the required energy density from batteries, yet alone the other problems (lifetime, recharge rate etc).

if only there was a liquid store of energy that could be cheaply extracted from the ground, refined and then stored in a plastic tank in each car ....

And of only that liquid wasn't a finite resource! Other than that, great idea!

TGOHF said:

JosiasJessop said:

flightpath01 said:

Dair said:

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

(snip)

Hydrogen has to be produced using electricity. Then pressurised if its to be used as a liquid. Transported and stored. Safely.
Why not just use the electricity in the first place.

Because we are absolutely nowhere near getting the required energy density from batteries, yet alone the other problems (lifetime, recharge rate etc).

if only there was a liquid store of energy that could be cheaply extracted from the ground, refined and then stored in a plastic tank in each car ....

Look, don't go betting the future on vapourware tech. We must rely on current tech. In the meantime, we need to decide what colour the wheel should be...

JosiasJessop said:

Hmmmm...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34320413

Drug patents last for 20 years.

How can a 62 year old drug still have rights to sell other than (potentially) branding?

Sean_F said:

MattW said:

Labour Councillor. Ouch.

https://twitter.com/SocialistChris/status/645549438002405376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

The stats are fake, of course - and debunked weeks ago.

Classy

I had a big facebook row w some idiot I am unlucky enough to know about this.. Most of the people stopped claiming because they died not vice versa

The VW story is going from a "whoops" story at the weekend to main headline scandal.

It could be "an Enron" as brand reputation goes. And I'm an Audi driver of many years' standing, so not particularly happy at the possible ramifications, financial or otherwise, for the VW-Audi Group.

Of course, being the petrolhead I am, I'd never buy a diesel, so I take some comfort from that.

Bob__Sykes said:

The VW story is going from a "whoops" story at the weekend to main headline scandal.

It could be "an Enron" as brand reputation goes. And I'm an Audi driver of many years' standing, so not particularly happy at the possible ramifications, financial or otherwise, for the VW-Audi Group.

Of course, being the petrolhead I am, I'd never buy a diesel, so I take some comfort from that.

Sorry Bob, it's a proven fact that 99.99% of Audi drivers are ar*eholes, maybe you're the one which isn't

But yep, it's a cluster**** of epic proportions. I do drive a diesel, but it's a Nissan, and knowing now about Diesel engines over the last few years it'll be my last one.

Bob__Sykes said:

The VW story is going from a "whoops" story at the weekend to main headline scandal.

It could be "an Enron" as brand reputation goes. And I'm an Audi driver of many years' standing, so not particularly happy at the possible ramifications, financial or otherwise, for the VW-Audi Group.

Of course, being the petrolhead I am, I'd never buy a diesel, so I take some comfort from that.

Autocar are reporting that it applies to one model of diesel engine. VW saying all EU6 engines are standards compliant. It's the catalysts than worry me in modern diesels. I worry that short journeys would screw them royally.

SeanT said:

Tissue_Price said:

SeanT said:

ON topic, just heard a fairly convincing rumour that THE ICE TWINS, by cryptic Cornish authoress S K Tremayne, is...

Number One on the UK bestseller list. Number ONE.

*swoons Byronically*

I saw a bit of blurb concluding "S.K. Tremayne has two daughters". Nicely done.

Ta. Yes, I added that bit. Gives it that poignant hint of verisimilitude, I hope.

I still can't quite believe I am Number One, and I won't until I see it in writing. But the rumour is strong.

Congratulations Sean. I hope you enjoy - well, I know you will - every success!

TGOHF said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TGOHF said:

JosiasJessop said:

flightpath01 said:

Dair said:

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

(snip)

Hydrogen has to be produced using electricity. Then pressurised if its to be used as a liquid. Transported and stored. Safely.
Why not just use the electricity in the first place.

Because we are absolutely nowhere near getting the required energy density from batteries, yet alone the other problems (lifetime, recharge rate etc).

if only there was a liquid store of energy that could be cheaply extracted from the ground, refined and then stored in a plastic tank in each car ....

And of only that liquid wasn't a finite resource! Other than that, great idea!

Depends on your definition of "finite" I suppose - and fracking is doing an excellent job of extending the finititty of hydrocarbons.

It's going to run out sooner or later!

TGOHF said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34328067

"But what does the prime minister think himself about the lurid allegations of drug taking and porcine ritual?

Well, he gave some sense of his views at a Conservative fundraising dinner at the Carlton Club last night.

He told the 300 guests that he had had to go to hospital earlier in the day for a bad back, the result of some over-energetic wood chopping in his constituency at the weekend.
The surgeon told Mr Cameron that he would need an injection and asked him to lie on his front.

The doctor then said: "This will just be a little prick, just a stab in the back."
Which, the prime minister said, "rather summed up my day"".

david_herdson said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TGOHF said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TGOHF said:

JosiasJessop said:

flightpath01 said:

Dair said:

flightpath01 said:

Hydrogen fuel cells emit water vapour. Water vapour makes up over 90% of so called greenhouse gases.

It's luck that nature provides and infallible way of removing excess water vapour from the atmosphere.

Rain.

(snip)

Hydrogen has to be produced using electricity. Then pressurised if its to be used as a liquid. Transported and stored. Safely.
Why not just use the electricity in the first place.

Because we are absolutely nowhere near getting the required energy density from batteries, yet alone the other problems (lifetime, recharge rate etc).

if only there was a liquid store of energy that could be cheaply extracted from the ground, refined and then stored in a plastic tank in each car ....

And of only that liquid wasn't a finite resource! Other than that, great idea!

Depends on your definition of "finite" I suppose - and fracking is doing an excellent job of extending the finititty of hydrocarbons.

It's going to run out sooner or later!

The stone age didn't end because the world ran out of stones.

Mr. Herdson, meet Islamic State.

isam said:

Sean_F said:

MattW said:

Labour Councillor. Ouch.

https://twitter.com/SocialistChris/status/645549438002405376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

The stats are fake, of course - and debunked weeks ago.

Classy

I had a big facebook row w some idiot I am unlucky enough to know about this.. Most of the people stopped claiming because they died not vice versa

Facebook politics debates are pointless. People use it to advertise their prejudices and opinions, in the search for as much validation as possible, but not to have them challenged.

Slackbladder said:

Bob__Sykes said:

The VW story is going from a "whoops" story at the weekend to main headline scandal.

It could be "an Enron" as brand reputation goes. And I'm an Audi driver of many years' standing, so not particularly happy at the possible ramifications, financial or otherwise, for the VW-Audi Group.

Of course, being the petrolhead I am, I'd never buy a diesel, so I take some comfort from that.

Sorry Bob, it's a proven fact that 99.99% of Audi drivers are ar*eholes, maybe you're the one which isn't

But yep, it's a cluster**** of epic proportions. I do drive a diesel, but it's a Nissan, and knowing now about Diesel engines over the last few years it'll be my last one.

Problem with petrol engines is their lack of torques. No substitute for cubes I suppose, but I'm not really sure about these small turbocharged petrol units. OK if your happy to rev them, but for more relaxed driving? I'm not sure. The wife and I will have to do a few test drives.☺

OldKingCole said:

Pulpstar said:

In India, multiple combinations of this tablet are available for a price ranging from U.S. $0.05–$0.10 each (3–7 rupees).

It has been produced since 1953

It’s in the current (September) BNF (the standard reference) as manufactured here by GSK and costing the NHS £13 for 30. To be fair, could well be under-priced; some of these niche drugs are, because no-one really looks at them,

43p (£13/30). Not bad, I suppose.

Plato_Says said:

Isabel is the story http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4564348.ece

Cameron dead pig claims ‘hardly Watergate’, author protests

Porkergate?

SeanT said:

Tissue_Price said:

SeanT said:

ON topic, just heard a fairly convincing rumour that THE ICE TWINS, by cryptic Cornish authoress S K Tremayne, is...

Number One on the UK bestseller list. Number ONE.

*swoons Byronically*

I saw a bit of blurb concluding "S.K. Tremayne has two daughters". Nicely done.

Ta. Yes, I added that bit. Gives it that poignant hint of verisimilitude, I hope.

I still can't quite believe I am Number One, and I won't until I see it in writing. But the rumour is strong.

Well done, a fantastic achievement