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SystemSystem Posts: 12,683
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Fiorina now leading the Donald in New Hampshire – where the first full primary takes place

While Britain has been focussed on the election of Donald Trump, and now the Ashcroft Cameron biography, the 2016 White House race has been seeing some dramatic developments

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,830
    edited September 2015
    1st.

    Just glad it wasn't a pheasant.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Do we mean election of Corbyn or am I being dim?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    While Britain has been focussed on the election of Donald Trump

    I think you mean Jeremy Corbyn.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Once again I posted after a new thread had been flagged up, most annoying.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    I hope Ben Carson doesn't get it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I hope Ben Carson doesn't get it.

    He won't.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I hope Ben Carson doesn't get it.

    He won't.
    Thank Allah for that.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Indeed. I've barely seen the US election mentioned elsewhere.
    MarkHopkins said:

    While Britain has been focussed on the election of Donald Trump

    I think you mean Jeremy Corbyn.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    MarkHopkins said:

    While Britain has been focussed on the election of Donald Trump

    I think you mean Jeremy Corbyn.

    My apologies. I've just driven 800 miles
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    I'm rather hoping she does quite well, but only because of Trump's posturing earlier on.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited September 2015
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    She will be the Veep candidate regardless. I am not being sexist. I think in the end , it will be Jeb.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2015
    BannedInParis said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    I'm rather hoping she does quite well, but only because of Trump's posturing earlier on.
    She probably will do quite well, but in the end someone whose only claim to political fame is having failed miserably in the one election she did stand in, and whose business career is more of a negative than a positive, is not going to get the nomination.

    Edit: As surbiton says, she might well get the VP nomination.

    Not so sure it will be Bush, though. He's not showing very well at the moment and there are three or four other serious candidates.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited September 2015
    Rubio's USP is gone , now that the Pope is on Obama's side.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,318
    FPT
    blackburn63 said:

    TOPPING said:

    blackburn63 said:

    Got to love the tribalists on here, Corbyn bangs Abbott 30 years ago and it proves he's a weirdo. Around the same time Cameron does the same with a pig's head, front page of the Mail, and its a non story.

    not at all.

    It's just that having an affair with Diane Abbott or putting your schlonger into the mouth of a dead pig are things that most people can't conceive as being something that anyone would actually want to do.
    Oh come off it, was Abbott in her 20s really that bad, of course not. Does it matter that he put his pecker in a dead pig at uni, of course not.

    Its the infantile double standards and point scoring I find amusing, both sides jumping up and down with fake outrage.

    I maintain that pig-gate is more dangerous, not because of the pig but because of the story teller, despite the spin from the tories on here its bad news and Cameron will know it.

    dear god man - take out the infantile double standards and point scoring on PB and what are you left with??
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited September 2015
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I hope Ben Carson doesn't get it.

    What’s Carson’s background? he sounds like an evangelical pastor from the south? - He’s certainly made some very odd comments regarding Nazi Germany, Gays and Muslims becoming POTUS.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Thinking about the last thread, I think Cameron is right not to say anything, but to stay quiet and hope the story dies down.

    After all, you can't put lipstick on a pig
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Welcome back Mike.
    Hat tip to TSE for deputising.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Isn't it a damning indictment of Republican politicians that their top three for the presidential nomination are all from outside politics. There must be a governor or senator out there that's better than ANOTHER Bush.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    SimonStClare said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I hope Ben Carson doesn't get it.

    What’s Carson’s background? he sounds like an evangelical pastor from the south? - He’s certainly made some very odd comments regarding Nazi Germany, Gays and Muslims becoming POTUS.
    He's a surgeon.

    He's said some stuff that his faith tells him evolution didn't happen and that a Muslim can't be President.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    Is the dreaded reign of TSE over?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Welcome back Mike.
    Hat tip to TSE for deputising.

    Seconded.

    Luckily it's been a quiet period.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Incidentally anyone who wants a quick guide to who's who in the nomination races can find one here:

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/2016-president/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Umm, didn't Cleggers just say that he didn't remember blocking any appts?
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Welcome back Mike.
    Hat tip to TSE for deputising.

    Seconded.

    Luckily it's been a quiet period.
    Always is when Mike goes away.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,384
    Welcome back Mike. The sad thing about the Republican race is that Fiorina is not even very good, it is just that the rest of the field is awful.

    What she did have the nerve to do was call out the ridiculous Trump when the others were running scared. Cooper and Burnham should look and weep.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,619
    Kirk St Moritz becomes Eric Morris once more
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Europe's divide: Hungary posts ads in Lebanese newspapers warning migrants not to enter illegally - as Austria struggles to cope with 24,000 crossing their border

    Hungary took out a full page ads saying 'the strongest possible action' will be taken against law breakers
    Informs would-be refugees that entering Hungary illegally is now a crime punishable by imprisonment
    News comes as Austrian police revealed that nearly 24,000 refugees crossed over from Hungary this weekend
    A further 3,200 desperate refugees arrived this morning alone, stretching local resources to the limit


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243147/Europe-s-divide-Hungary-posts-ads-Lebanese-newspapers-warning-migrants-not-enter-illegally-Austria-says-3-200-arrived-border.html#ixzz3mNbwScTh
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Welcome back Mike.
    Hat tip to TSE for deputising.

    Seconded.

    Luckily it's been a quiet period.
    If Mike follows his usual holiday pattern my next stint will be covering the London Mayoral/Scottish Parliament/Welsh Assembly and local council elections.

    Nothing major will happen were Jezbollah led Labour to badly in those.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    MikeSmithson said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    While Britain has been focussed on the election of Donald Trump

    I think you mean Jeremy Corbyn.

    My apologies. I've just driven 800 miles

    Welcome back.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    Press Gazette
    Former NoW political editor: Ashcroft's Cameron pig head story would not have passed 'basic standards' for tabloid http://t.co/D8pAjBFbUY
    Writing in The Spectator today, Ian Kirby said: "If I had gone to Rebekah Brooks or Andy Coulson when they were editing and said that I had a story about David Cameron’s honourable member and a pig’s head, their first question would be ‘where’s the proof?’"

    "If I then told them I had it on good authority from an MP who swears they’d seen a photograph but won’t go on the record, I would have been booted out of the office – only after being given a good kicking.

    "As every political journalist knows there are lies, damn lies – and then the tales that MPs tell about their enemies. Lord Ashcroft’s story about Cameron and the pig would not have passed the basic standards demanded by a tabloid newspaper.
    Kirby also wrote that tabloids do not have the budgets they used to have and so the "easy way for a newspaper to publish a scandal nowadays is simply to serialise a book, preferably one by a ‘name’, and then print whatever they say about someone you know doesn’t have the time or the inclination to sue. It’s not the paper’s reputation on the line but the author’s."

    He added: "Politicians like to attack the press for low standards, sometimes for good reason. But today we see a revolting ‘story’ that is based on nothing more substantive than the ‘word’ of a multi-millionaire."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    She will be the Veep candidate regardless. I am not being sexist. I think in the end , it will be Jeb.
    Jeb is who my wife wants me to work with.

    I'm intrigued by the possibility.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,318
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

    very nasty
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Welcome back Mike.
    Hat tip to TSE for deputising.

    Seconded.

    Luckily it's been a quiet period.
    If Mike follows his usual holiday pattern my next stint will be covering the London Mayoral/Scottish Parliament/Welsh Assembly and local council elections.

    Nothing major will happen were Jezbollah led Labour to badly in those.
    when is man of the people political seer Eddie Izzard due to become London Mayor?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,425
    Plato_Says said:

    Umm, didn't Cleggers just say that he didn't remember blocking any appts?

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

    His memory goes in and out. He certainly doesn't remember saying that he didn't remember blocking any appointments.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    Press Gazette
    Former NoW political editor: Ashcroft's Cameron pig head story would not have passed 'basic standards' for tabloid http://t.co/D8pAjBFbUY

    Writing in The Spectator today, Ian Kirby said: "If I had gone to Rebekah Brooks or Andy Coulson when they were editing and said that I had a story about David Cameron’s honourable member and a pig’s head, their first question would be ‘where’s the proof?’"

    "If I then told them I had it on good authority from an MP who swears they’d seen a photograph but won’t go on the record, I would have been booted out of the office – only after being given a good kicking.

    "As every political journalist knows there are lies, damn lies – and then the tales that MPs tell about their enemies. Lord Ashcroft’s story about Cameron and the pig would not have passed the basic standards demanded by a tabloid newspaper."
    Poor old Dacre, miffed that he's never had, and now never will get a peerage.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Or allegations about Rennard or boundary reviews.

    Does he have CJD?

    It's tragic for one so young.
    rcs1000 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Umm, didn't Cleggers just say that he didn't remember blocking any appts?

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

    His memory goes in and out. He certainly doesn't remember saying that he didn't remember blocking any appointments.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I winced reading this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11879164/We-victims-of-the-IRA-are-furious-about-Jeremy-Corbyn.html
    Of course Mr Corbyn denies being an anti-Semite, but he has plenty of friends who don't bother to do so. He assures us that his kind remarks about the IRA were designed to advance the peace process, which is no doubt why he fawned on Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness before the wreckage of the Grand Hotel Brighton had even been cleared, and later observed a minute's silence for eight IRA terrorists killed by the British Army.

    ... We, the victims of the IRA and Sinn Fein, see the advancement of men who admire those who sanction violence to get their way.
  • adamandcatadamandcat Posts: 76
    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,086
    Plato_Says said:

    Or allegations about Rennard or boundary reviews.

    Does he have CJD?

    It's tragic for one so young.

    rcs1000 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Umm, didn't Cleggers just say that he didn't remember blocking any appts?

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

    His memory goes in and out. He certainly doesn't remember saying that he didn't remember blocking any appointments.
    It's quite simple really.
    Clegg says he didn't block Ashcroft, that Cameron used him as an excuse.
    Clegg says he did block Howard.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    JEO said:

    Isn't it a damning indictment of Republican politicians that their top three for the presidential nomination are all from outside politics. There must be a governor or senator out there that's better than ANOTHER Bush.

    Wait and see how the outsiders do when the campaign gets serious. If there's one thing politicians are good at, it's politics.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    So in your view that's Trump, Carson and Fiorina out.

    Do you think Bush will get the nod then?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,318
    edited September 2015
    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    hey!

    Come on @TheScreamingEagles I know this is your last day (for your efforts thanks) but if you are going to set up a spoof account to continue posting to try to make us believe you are some bonkers lefty you are going to have to do better than this.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: I'm told David Cameron was never a member of the Piers Gaveston dining club at Oxford.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,089
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: I'm told David Cameron was never a member of the Piers Gaveston dining club at Oxford.

    If that can be proved (how?), then it would kill this story stone-dead.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,967
    Hope you all took my Fiorina tip several months ago. At 164/1 !

    I was pretty sure she would scale in simply by standing out as the only GOP woman in an over crowded stage. Her ability to lamp one on Trump has been a bonus. Go girl!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What?

    And Ashcroft is apparently retelling a porkie pie. He didn't get a job and hasn't donated a sou or sow in years.

    So what *power* does he wield beyond making himself look vengeful and petty?

    He's embarrassed our PM for a day - nothing more.
    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited September 2015
    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    What an odd little world you live in.

    His Lordship wrote a second-hand allegation from an un-quoted source, involving an initiation ceremony of a club the PM was never a member of. – No wonder some have doubts about its validity .
  • adamandcatadamandcat Posts: 76
    TOPPING said:

    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    hey!

    Come on @TheScreamingEagles I know this is your last day (for your efforts thanks) but if you are going to set up a spoof account to continue posting to try to make us believe you are some bonkers lefty you are going to have to do better than this.
    Thanks, I thought I was a real person, but maybe you know better!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm told = he read it in The Spectator?
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: I'm told David Cameron was never a member of the Piers Gaveston dining club at Oxford.

  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Charles said:

    Thinking about the last thread, I think Cameron is right not to say anything, but to stay quiet and hope the story dies down.

    After all, you can't put lipstick on a pig

    I heard a rumour that he was going to stay home and play board games. Backgammon anyone?
  • John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    edited September 2015
    I'm watching the market on the SNP failing to make a clean sweep of all 73 constituency seats next year in Holyrood. 1\5 at Ladbrokes, but very little liquidity. Their candidate in Shetland, Mike Mackenzie, hasn't got a chance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    You think that's bad?

    At my alma mater (the finest public school in Sheffield) we used to play chess using poor people as chess pieces.

    We stood at Sheffield train station throwing soap at the poor

    Both gave us the horn.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    So in your view that's Trump, Carson and Fiorina out.

    Do you think Bush will get the nod then?

    Currently it looks like one of Bush, Walker, or Rubio. There are a few others whom I wouldn't rule out - Kasich, perhaps. Things can change - we're still months from the first primary votes - but it will almost certainly be someone who is or has been a governor, or (less likely) senator, not a maverick outsider who's never won anything and who has no political hinterland or organisation. As Edmund points out, this is a game for professionals, and it's also a marathon, not a novelty egg-and-gaffe race.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid', admits Clegg as he takes the blame for election 'drubbing'

    Former Deputy PM tells conference of his 'mistakes and miscalculations'
    During election he promised to 'heart' for the Tories and 'head' for Labour
    But in speech he admits the strategy left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid'
    Insists the Lib Dems can be the 'comeback kids of British politics'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243274/Lib-Dems-neither-one-hand-nor-admits-Clegg-takes-blame-election-drubbing.html#ixzz3mNiglEvw
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    Fiorina, no. Trump I wouldn't write off though as a trading bet - given the polling coming out of NH - he's probably a lay for now.

    I'd be interested to see caucus-filtered polling from Iowa. The result there will have some feed through to NH and I'd have thought that Trump might be quite a good fit.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ms Fiorina won't get the nomination, and nor will Donald Trump. But she will get her moment in the limelight and the odds might shorten a bit more on her. Meanwhile Donald Trump is a lay.

    Richard, agreed. This may herald the end of the Donald's ascendancy in the polls, and the beginning of the serious campaign. If so, we can expect a whittling down of the menu and the polling to start coalescing around a number of the career politicians.

    I still don't see Jeb getting it, and Walker is just about down and out. While I still like Kasich on policy, I think Rubio is the most likely to benefit at this stage.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11879177/Is-it-true-that-David-Cameron-had-sex-with-a-pig-It-really-doesnt-matter.html
    If that sounds weak and unconvincing it's because it is. Perverse as it might sound, there really aren't any political consequences of a story that the Prime Minister did something rude to a dead pig. It won't change anyone's mind about him, though it may convince some that they were right in what they already thought. It won't change a single vote, and wouldn't have done so even if Mr Cameron was standing again.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,886
    logical_song said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Or allegations about Rennard or boundary reviews.

    Does he have CJD?

    It's tragic for one so young.

    rcs1000 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Umm, didn't Cleggers just say that he didn't remember blocking any appts?

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

    His memory goes in and out. He certainly doesn't remember saying that he didn't remember blocking any appointments.
    It's quite simple really.
    Clegg says he didn't block Ashcroft, that Cameron used him as an excuse.
    Clegg says he did block Howard.
    Surely, it is quite likely that if Clegg blocked the respected former Party leader, it was almost certain he would block the, er, somewhat less respected figure of Lord Ashcroft - so Cameron didn't actually ask Clegg because the answer - No!!! over my dead body - was 100% certain?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    So is the whole Mail story a porkie pie ?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Here's why Trump won't get the nomination:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

    Nate's analysis also works for other maverick contenders.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,425
    logical_song said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Or allegations about Rennard or boundary reviews.

    Does he have CJD?

    It's tragic for one so young.

    rcs1000 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Umm, didn't Cleggers just say that he didn't remember blocking any appts?

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bloody Clegg. So glad I didn't vote for him now.

    Remember when I tipped Lord Howard as our next man in Bruxelles at 25/1?

    @TelePolitics: Nick Clegg: I blocked Lord Howard's appointment as EU commissioner http://t.co/DwK3EvZDPX

    His memory goes in and out. He certainly doesn't remember saying that he didn't remember blocking any appointments.
    It's quite simple really.
    Clegg says he didn't block Ashcroft, that Cameron used him as an excuse.
    Clegg says he did block Howard.
    Ironically, if he had blocked Ashcroft he would have been doing Britain a huge favour...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,613
    Loving the spin here about this now definitely not being true. I thought the line was it was no big deal, we've all been there?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,886
    Plato_Says said:

    I left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid', admits Clegg as he takes the blame for election 'drubbing'

    Former Deputy PM tells conference of his 'mistakes and miscalculations'
    During election he promised to 'heart' for the Tories and 'head' for Labour
    But in speech he admits the strategy left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid'
    Insists the Lib Dems can be the 'comeback kids of British politics'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243274/Lib-Dems-neither-one-hand-nor-admits-Clegg-takes-blame-election-drubbing.html#ixzz3mNiglEvw
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Clegg should have listened to the pb Tories....

    1) Have the LibDems go hell for leather for Labour, pointing out the LibDems were the sensible, prudent Left on the economy (rather than starting to rum that line now);

    2) Resigned after the Euro results and allow the party to stand a chance of being listened to by a new voice. People just blocked out any message fed to them by Clegg.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    You think that's bad?

    At my alma mater (the finest public school in Sheffield) we used to play chess using poor people as chess pieces.

    We stood at Sheffield train station throwing soap at the poor

    Both gave us the horn.
    Given that chess is a military strategy game, I assume you properly disposed of the poor once they were removed from the board.

    Did you used the cleaned ones for white and the dirty ones for black?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,886
    Pulpstar said:

    So is the whole Mail story a porkie pie ?

    Who knows? Crackling good fun tho...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,089
    Off-topic:

    One thing's struck me about the Labour lady's appearance on DP earlier. In her reasonable defence of railway renationalisation, she said that the railways would be more economic because of efficiency savings.

    As 'efficiency savings' is another word for job cuts (or at least, that's the way Labour try to paint them when they're the government's efficiency savings), are Labour saying large numbers of railway workers will lose their jobs under renationalisation?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    For some reason there are more bad puns possible on porky themes than on almost anything else. You can really pig out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    MTimT said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    You think that's bad?

    At my alma mater (the finest public school in Sheffield) we used to play chess using poor people as chess pieces.

    We stood at Sheffield train station throwing soap at the poor

    Both gave us the horn.
    Given that chess is a military strategy game, I assume you properly disposed of the poor once they were removed from the board.

    Did you used the cleaned ones for white and the dirty ones for black?
    That's pretty much it.

    With chess being a white supremacist game ( I mean black goes second after white) made it even more fun.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,750
    One has to wonder where Mick Pork is right now...
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''You can really pig out.''

    You are scratching around for something to post now....
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-34312299

    Meanwhile, the BBC’s coverage of the Lib Dem Autumn Conference takes on a lighter note.

    https://twitter.com/SunNation/status/645960997765795840
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It can be both.
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Loving the spin here about this now definitely not being true. I thought the line was it was no big deal, we've all been there?

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,750
    I have also noticed that we're coming to the put up or shut up stage of this fiasco. If the Mail and Aschcroft are unable to produce this photographic evidence they have alleged exists then I think it will need to be retracted. There are too many people rubbishing the claims who would know about it if it had happened.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    We keep calling it, and they call us partisan.

    It's actually a free public service.
    MarqueeMark said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid', admits Clegg as he takes the blame for election 'drubbing'

    Former Deputy PM tells conference of his 'mistakes and miscalculations'
    During election he promised to 'heart' for the Tories and 'head' for Labour
    But in speech he admits the strategy left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid'
    Insists the Lib Dems can be the 'comeback kids of British politics'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243274/Lib-Dems-neither-one-hand-nor-admits-Clegg-takes-blame-election-drubbing.html#ixzz3mNiglEvw
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Clegg should have listened to the pb Tories....

    1) Have the LibDems go hell for leather for Labour, pointing out the LibDems were the sensible, prudent Left on the economy (rather than starting to rum that line now);

    2) Resigned after the Euro results and allow the party to stand a chance of being listened to by a new voice. People just blocked out any message fed to them by Clegg.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    JosiasJessop said:

    Off-topic:

    One thing's struck me about the Labour lady's appearance on DP earlier. In her reasonable defence of railway renationalisation, she said that the railways would be more economic because of efficiency savings.

    As 'efficiency savings' is another word for job cuts (or at least, that's the way Labour try to paint them when they're the government's efficiency savings), are Labour saying large numbers of railway workers will lose their jobs under renationalisation?

    I think the perception is that because private companies are taking a cut for running the trains, if we remove them and let the state run them then we'll save money. Not necessarily the case, of course.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Trot on
    taffys said:

    ''You can really pig out.''

    You are scratching around for something to post now....

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    I've just remembered the reason why Boris was sacked by the Times.

    I wrong to make up a quote about King Edward II and his gay lover Piers Gaveston

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/03/26/boris-johnson-i-was-wrong-to-make-up-a-quote-about-king-edward-ii-and-his-gay-lover-piers-gaveston/
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Plato_Says said:

    We keep calling it, and they call us partisan.

    It's actually a free public service.

    Having said that, I've been scratching my head about what free, non-partisan and helpful advice we can give to the dwindling band of sane Labour MPs on what to do about Corbyn, but I'm completely stumped.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Well quite. I'm already bored of the tedious process story about when Cameron knew about Ashcroft's non-dom status.

    It's inevitable and no one cares, just as they didn't all those years ago.
    MaxPB said:

    I have also noticed that we're coming to the put up or shut up stage of this fiasco. If the Mail and Aschcroft are unable to produce this photographic evidence they have alleged exists then I think it will need to be retracted. There are too many people rubbishing the claims who would know about it if it had happened.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,089
    tlg86 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Off-topic:

    One thing's struck me about the Labour lady's appearance on DP earlier. In her reasonable defence of railway renationalisation, she said that the railways would be more economic because of efficiency savings.

    As 'efficiency savings' is another word for job cuts (or at least, that's the way Labour try to paint them when they're the government's efficiency savings), are Labour saying large numbers of railway workers will lose their jobs under renationalisation?

    I think the perception is that because private companies are taking a cut for running the trains, if we remove them and let the state run them then we'll save money. Not necessarily the case, of course.
    She was definitely using the efficiency savings line.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Plato_Says said:

    We keep calling it, and they call us partisan.

    It's actually a free public service.

    MarqueeMark said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid', admits Clegg as he takes the blame for election 'drubbing'

    Former Deputy PM tells conference of his 'mistakes and miscalculations'
    During election he promised to 'heart' for the Tories and 'head' for Labour
    But in speech he admits the strategy left the Lib Dems looking 'insipid'
    Insists the Lib Dems can be the 'comeback kids of British politics'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243274/Lib-Dems-neither-one-hand-nor-admits-Clegg-takes-blame-election-drubbing.html#ixzz3mNiglEvw
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Clegg should have listened to the pb Tories....

    1) Have the LibDems go hell for leather for Labour, pointing out the LibDems were the sensible, prudent Left on the economy (rather than starting to rum that line now);

    2) Resigned after the Euro results and allow the party to stand a chance of being listened to by a new voice. People just blocked out any message fed to them by Clegg.


    Except it was of course losing tactical labour votes that lost them many of their seats.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Loving the spin here about this now definitely not being true. I thought the line was it was no big deal, we've all been there?

    Was that ever the line?

    Isabell Oakeshott was on WATO whining that this story is one page out the entire book.

    Translation

    "I traded my journalistic repuation for a story we can't stand up. Please, please, please read the rest of the book or it was all for nought..."
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    No pig puns? The whole story's about New HAMpshire....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,774
    TudorRose said:

    No pig puns? The whole story's about New HAMpshire....

    Here is your coat.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    Me neither.

    It's a total crock. If it wasn't conference season, I'd go for a full revolt of the PLP and declare a vote of No Confidence.

    Corbyn's been totally knobbled by moderates who've kettled him. But now he's got a platform and a massive base.

    If I were a Labour MP, I'd be wishing for a killer story to bring him down. But those in the evil Tory Press may prefer to let this drag on and on and on...
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Plato_Says said:

    We keep calling it, and they call us partisan.

    It's actually a free public service.

    Having said that, I've been scratching my head about what free, non-partisan and helpful advice we can give to the dwindling band of sane Labour MPs on what to do about Corbyn, but I'm completely stumped.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TudorRose said:

    No pig puns? The whole story's about New HAMpshire....

    Here is your coat.
    Mine's the donkey jacket in the corner.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought Toby Young was horribly correct here. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/is-that-really-the-best-lord-ashcroft-could-dig-up/
    I had dinner with Isabel Oakeshott at last year’s Conservative Party Conference and after she’d established that I had nothing scandalous to contribute to the book she asked me how I thought people inside the Westminster bubble – journalists and broadcasters, as well as MPs – would react to ‘Call Me Dave’. I got the distinct impression she was worried about the harm it would do to her reputation, particularly if the focus was on Cameron’s student days.

    Now I see why. Isabel is a first-rate reporter who deservedly won ‘Political Journalist of the Year’ for her Sunday Times scoop that led to Chris Huhne’s fall from grace. To see her reduced to helping Lord Ashcroft peddle these sub-tabloid stories is a shame. The only people whose reputations have been damaged by ‘Call Me Dave’ are Isabel and her employer.
    Scott_P said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Loving the spin here about this now definitely not being true. I thought the line was it was no big deal, we've all been there?

    Was that ever the line?

    Isabell Oakeshott was on WATO whining that this story is one page out the entire book.

    Translation

    "I traded my journalistic repuation for a story we can't stand up. Please, please, please read the rest of the book or it was all for nought..."
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    George Orwell said:

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Tissue_Price said:

    George Orwell said:

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    Just imagine what Spitting Image would have done with this. All after the watershed, of course.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,949
    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    You think you might be going just a tad OTT?

  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Plato_Says said:


    If I were a Labour MP, I'd be wishing for a killer story to bring him down. But those in the evil Tory Press may prefer to let this drag on and on and on...

    Does the Islington Allotment Keepers' Association (if there is one) have an initiation rite?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,750
    http://i.imgur.com/FtaPMZ5.png

    Someone is about to get fired.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,384
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Plato_Says said:

    We keep calling it, and they call us partisan.

    It's actually a free public service.

    Having said that, I've been scratching my head about what free, non-partisan and helpful advice we can give to the dwindling band of sane Labour MPs on what to do about Corbyn, but I'm completely stumped.
    They can try to control him through the Shadow Cabinet and get him to renounce the absurd and incoherent positions he has espoused for the last 30 years. That is the current strategy which, somewhat oddly, Tom Watson was warning against this morning. I can only infer he has not been invited into the cabal.

    If that does not work they will need to humiliate him publically by having a majority of the PLP vote against him and hope he resigns in consequence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,318
    edited September 2015
    adamandcat said:

    TOPPING said:

    adamandcat said:

    some thoughts

    1. Loss of authority could be terminal
    2. Shows power of those behind the apparent leaders, ie Ashcroft can pull the plug on Cameron if he wants, due to his powerful position and the fact that he has authority within the Press. He and the Mail don’t care for Cameron, hence this attack. Imagine if I said this about Chris Grayling (I was at Uni with him, and of course this isn't true of him) – no one would print it
    3. Also initiation rites are deliberate control on future elites, to keep them in line in future
    4. However it is also represents wider sexual violence, humiliation, denigration of poor people, etc, by the ruling elite

    hey!

    Come on @TheScreamingEagles I know this is your last day (for your efforts thanks) but if you are going to set up a spoof account to continue posting to try to make us believe you are some bonkers lefty you are going to have to do better than this.
    Thanks, I thought I was a real person, but maybe you know better!
    You are a real person and apologies if you were offended by what I said.

    talking about elites is always tricky. What, for example, was the percentage of the population who went to university at the time of Chris Grayling? Would that have constituted an elite?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,113
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Plato_Says said:

    We keep calling it, and they call us partisan.

    It's actually a free public service.

    Having said that, I've been scratching my head about what free, non-partisan and helpful advice we can give to the dwindling band of sane Labour MPs on what to do about Corbyn, but I'm completely stumped.
    Difficult to see what they do indeed.

    Just invest in him to keep the job I reckon:

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/jeremy-corbyn-specials leader still at 1st Jan 2017 4-5.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    The Iain Duncan Smiths new release https://soundcloud.com/theiainduncansmiths/pigs-mouth-strikes-again-feat-david-cameron
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,391
    Scott_P said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Loving the spin here about this now definitely not being true. I thought the line was it was no big deal, we've all been there?

    Was that ever the line?

    Isabell Oakeshott was on WATO whining that this story is one page out the entire book.

    Translation

    "I traded my journalistic repuation for a story we can't stand up. Please, please, please read the rest of the book or it was all for nought..."
    Scott_P said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Loving the spin here about this now definitely not being true. I thought the line was it was no big deal, we've all been there?

    Was that ever the line?

    Isabell Oakeshott was on WATO whining that this story is one page out the entire book.

    Translation

    "I traded my journalistic repuation for a story we can't stand up. Please, please, please read the rest of the book or it was all for nought..."
    Curious attitude - if it's true, then it's explosive and deserves to be told and then proven, and the rest of the book will be looked at in time. If she doesn't like it getting the attention rather than the apparently moving account of Cameron's feelings about his first born, which the Mail say is also in there, or whatever well that's tough - truth or lie, it's so far the most significant allegation one way or another, she can defend it as being true but only one part of the tale, or say it shouldn't have been in there.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    DavidL said:

    They can try to control him through the Shadow Cabinet and get him to renounce the absurd and incoherent positions he has espoused for the last 30 years. That is the current strategy which, somewhat oddly, Tom Watson was warning against this morning. I can only infer he has not been invited into the cabal.

    If that does not work they will need to humiliate him publically by having a majority of the PLP vote against him and hope he resigns in consequence.

    The trouble with that approach is that he's going to try to get, and probably will get, support directly from party members for his policies. It's a mistake to underestimate him and his team (many of whom worked with Ken Livingstone, no slouch himself at manipulating Labour politics).
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited September 2015
    On topic -

    I said here after last wednesday's GOP debate that I felt Carly had won big time, and that Trump had peaked. Carly's putdown of Trump's face comment was killer, and minimalist. Her foreign policy credentials were on display as well.

    If the trend continues I shall start to feel a bit smug.
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