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I hardly think the Cardiff University cricket team is a secret circle or society. I don't know about what the Bullindgon initiation involves, but it is probably similar to Cardiff Rugby, in which case this story isn't all that surprising.JWisemann said:
The thing is, most of the population don't get involved in weird degrading initiations, and don't really want to be ruled over by secret societies, whereas people in certain circles like yourself probably think it's normal.MaxPB said:Ah initiations, how I remember them. Never did anything like this, but still some pretty random stuff.
I don't see this story lasting beyond the end of the week. It also makes Ashcroft look extremely petty.0 -
Let's have no more complaints from the left about the right wing press getting Corbyn.0
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That's the point. You are put in a position of enforced solidarity because you did something so against what you would consider acceptable or normal - and this circle of people all know this. As in turn, you know it of them too. It's fine until someone spills the beans.JWisemann said:Surely no one thinks he has a thing for pigs. These secret societies of chums that run the country, that demand allegiance by doing degrading things so that there is a certain level of control over you, are a fact, though. Whether there is truth to this particular incident.
Never had to deal with hazing in any form. I wouldn't consider it a price worth paying to hang around with people who would. But that's just me. I know many people who have done squalid things that I could relate here, but they would turn your stomach, so I will refrain.0 -
Might be worth looking around the Scottish borders for the culprit.Plato_Says said:Lots of checking Wikipedia going on no doubt. I suspect that person wishes he'd never mentioned now as their past is about get blown wide open next.
Scott_P said:@hugorifkind: NOTE: the Mail says the pig source is also an MP. Can only be one of a handful of people.
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On topic, who cares? Public schoolboy japes already priced in I reckon.0
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I doubt many people care. But plenty think it's funny - ha, ha and peculiar.isam said:On topic, who cares? Public schoolboy japes already priced in I reckon.
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Good friend of mine was hazed during his Navy training to drink a pint of pee - someone else's.
Not my style, but the psychology of this stuff is very peculiar and it goes on in all walks of life. Gang culture is infamous for it. As you note - it's about a shared solidarity that goes way beyond the norm to show it's not just lip service.MarqueeMark said:
That's the point. You are put in a position of enforced solidarity because you did something so against what you would consider acceptable or normal - and this circle of people all know this. As in turn, you know it of them too. It's fine until someone spills the beans.JWisemann said:Surely no one thinks he has a thing for pigs. These secret societies of chums that run the country, that demand allegiance by doing degrading things so that there is a certain level of control over you, are a fact, though. Whether there is truth to this particular incident.
Never had to deal with hazing in any form. I wouldn't consider it a price worth paying to hang around with people who would. But that's just me. I know many people who have done squalid things that I could relate here, but they would turn your stomach, so I will refrain.0 -
Bit harsh on Ashcroft - he wants to sell copies of the book to make money.
He has to fund those dubious constituency polls somehow.0 -
UK probably, but overseas ?isam said:On topic, who cares? Public schoolboy japes already priced in I reckon.
I guess the trip to saudi will have to wait.0 -
Yes I agree... We always called public schoolboys 'wallies with confidence' and here is more evidence!SouthamObserver said:
I doubt many people care. But plenty think it's funny - ha, ha and peculiar.isam said:On topic, who cares? Public schoolboy japes already priced in I reckon.
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I was a bit worried for a moment that James Delingpole's room in Peckwater Quad, mentioned in the Mail story, might have been my old room, but it's OK, it turns out his was on the top floor, mine was on the ground floor.0
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''He has to fund those dubious constituency polls somehow. ''
It reeks of the Human League song....
'Don't you want me baby...'0 -
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I don't know, it helped win Cameron a majorityCharles said:
None of us know Abbott personally, so there's less invested.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm sure all the gallant PB knights so ready to defend one of their own against 'sexism' will be donning their armour as I type.JWisemann said:
Mate.richardDodd said:That pig wandering around Oxford..I thought she was on the opposition front bench now.
But being rude about someone just because of their looks is pretty pointless.0 -
Absolutely uncalled for. There's plenty that she should be criticised for, but appearances are not one.richardDodd said:That pig wandering around Oxford..I thought she was on the opposition front bench now.
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Just imagine what the Tories would be saying right now if this was Corbyn.
Meanwhile, Kermit has sent Dave a message of support.0 -
What surprises me is the, err, squealer. I can't think of anyone I did the initiation with who would run to the press about it because that person did the same stuff. This MP who went running to Aschcroft almost certainly f*cked the same pig as did the guy who has the picture.0
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He got off very, very lightly!Plato_Says said:Good friend of mine was hazed during his Navy training to drink a pint of pee - someone else's.
Not my style, but the psychology of this stuff is very peculiar and it goes on in all walks of life. Gang culture is infamous for it. As you note - it's about a shared solidarity that goes way beyond the norm to show it's not just lip service.MarqueeMark said:
That's the point. You are put in a position of enforced solidarity because you did something so against what you would consider acceptable or normal - and this circle of people all know this. As in turn, you know it of them too. It's fine until someone spills the beans.JWisemann said:Surely no one thinks he has a thing for pigs. These secret societies of chums that run the country, that demand allegiance by doing degrading things so that there is a certain level of control over you, are a fact, though. Whether there is truth to this particular incident.
Never had to deal with hazing in any form. I wouldn't consider it a price worth paying to hang around with people who would. But that's just me. I know many people who have done squalid things that I could relate here, but they would turn your stomach, so I will refrain.0 -
People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.Scott_P said:@JamieRoss7: I am finding that most crisis management firms are reluctant to tell me what advice they would give to a client accused of shagging a pig.
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Oh you're getting so po-faced recently - I'd be laughing at it just as much. It's ridiculous - like his motorcycle holidays in DDR.Jonathan said:
Just imagine what the Tories would be saying right now if this was Corbyn.
Meanwhile, Kermit has sent Dave a message of support.0 -
Post of the day from arch tribalist Mr Estobar.Estobar said:'We've all done stupid things'
Erm, when your PM allegedly sticks his cock into a dead pig's mouth this, trust me, is a whole different level.
If it's true, and esp, if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.
Its mildly embarrassing for Cameron, but if you think it finishes his time as PM you're bonkers.
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A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
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'Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.'
Dave would be a fool to sue over any of this. Keeps the story going.
As it is, its tomorrow's chip wrapping.0 -
That would be one hell of a case:JEO said:
People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.Scott_P said:@JamieRoss7: I am finding that most crisis management firms are reluctant to tell me what advice they would give to a client accused of shagging a pig.
"I did not have intercourse with a pig, M'Lud, I merely inserted my member into the mouth of a dead one. Anything that suggests otherwise is offensive to me and defamatory."
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He is right - if it had been last week. but 30 years ago ?blackburn63 said:
Post of the day from arch tribalist Mr Estobar.Estobar said:'We've all done stupid things'
Erm, when your PM allegedly sticks his cock into a dead pig's mouth this, trust me, is a whole different level.
If it's true, and esp, if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.
Its mildly embarrassing for Cameron, but if you think it finishes his time as PM you're bonkers.0 -
Ashcroft correctly predicted three fundamentals of GE2015 which made a substantial difference to the result.TGOHF said:Bit harsh on Ashcroft - he wants to sell copies of the book to make money.
He has to fund those dubious constituency polls somehow.
1. The Liberals were getting wiped out.
2. Labour were doing better than UNS in safe seats.
3. The SNP were doing better than UNS in the hardest seats to win.
Without the first two, the Tories wouldn't have had a majority even with the under-estimate of their VI that all pollsters shared.
Ashcroft's polling shouldn't be maligned, it turned out he was very useful for making predictions on the outcome.0 -
We are no match for their untamed wit.isam said:
Yes I agree... We always called public schoolboys 'wallies with confidence' and here is more evidence!SouthamObserver said:
I doubt many people care. But plenty think it's funny - ha, ha and peculiar.isam said:On topic, who cares? Public schoolboy japes already priced in I reckon.
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F1: ahem, forgot I hadn't put up the post-race piece. I'll do that promptly, so it'll be up in a little while.
I know you were all waiting bated breath
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"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
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....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?0 -
I would queue up to attend that courtroom escapade. I didn't f*ck the pig, only put my penis in its mouth. Hmm...JEO said:
People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.Scott_P said:@JamieRoss7: I am finding that most crisis management firms are reluctant to tell me what advice they would give to a client accused of shagging a pig.
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''Post of the day from arch tribalist Mr Estobar.''
Estobar's recent predictions include Dave having to resign after losing the EU referendum to eurosceptic Corbyn.
Who is....er.....backing us staying in the EU until 2020.
Mystic Meg0 -
It is good to see the Guardian is now reporting this stuff:
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/20/westminster-university-islamic-students-society-ultra-conservative-muslims?CMP=twt_gu
The Islamic students’ society at the London university attended by the militant known as Jihadi John is dominated by hardline, ultra-conservative believers who refuse to even speak with female Muslim staff members, according to an independent report into inclusion among students at the institution.
Complaints about the conduct of the University of Westminster Islamic society, some from other Muslims, tended to be ignored or underplayed because staff and student unions officials were worried about appearing Islamophobic, the inquiry found.0 -
My near-neighbours run a hog-roast company. I'll see if they were asked to dispose of any evidence...
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Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
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....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.0 -
+1 for the cultural reference. Happy days.SouthamObserver said:
We are no match for their untamed wit.isam said:
Yes I agree... We always called public schoolboys 'wallies with confidence' and here is more evidence!SouthamObserver said:
I doubt many people care. But plenty think it's funny - ha, ha and peculiar.isam said:On topic, who cares? Public schoolboy japes already priced in I reckon.
I must be getting incredibly jaded. I just can't get exercised by Cameron's disgusting youthful antics. I do feel sorry for his kids, there's some serious playground torment being stored up here.0 -
I bet they would. They'd make a fortune.Richard_Nabavi said:
A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
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blackburn63 said:
Post of the day from arch tribalist Mr Estobar.Estobar said:'We've all done stupid things'
Erm, when your PM allegedly sticks his cock into a dead pig's mouth this, trust me, is a whole different level.
If it's true, and esp, if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.
Its mildly embarrassing for Cameron, but if you think it finishes his time as PM you're bonkers.
It may not finish Cameron, but as the Prime Minister he needs a certain amount of dignity and respect and that has now gone. Cameron now looks like as big a joke as Boris.
Hopefully the next time Tories pick a leader it won't be another public schoolboy.0 -
Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.0 -
Dave must be looking forward to his next audience with Her Majesty.0
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Is the Gavelstone group a subset of Bullingdon?
I really don't give a toss what they got up to when young and stupid - but I'm intrigued as to who was daft enough to blab to Ashcroft about it.
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
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He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
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....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
Different club, no?
I'm just an oik so might have this wrong,
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$16bn fine is what most people have priced in, and an inquiry by the EU as well, so more potential for fines.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.0 -
Never mind his lawyers. It's not one his political advisers would recommend pursuing, as Bill Clinton could no doubt testify.Richard_Nabavi said:
A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
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''My near-neighbours run a hog-roast company.''
There are pairs of men who want to 'roast' hogs???
Now that IS perverted.0 -
HMQ served with the forces during WWII, she's probably got her own stories to tell...SouthamObserver said:Dave must be looking forward to his next audience with Her Majesty.
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He did spot a couple of things - but a well positioned pine cone could have picked up Slab collapse. LA less successful in predicting Lab-Con marginals going darker blue and obviously he overegged his Kippers.Dair said:
Ashcroft correctly predicted three fundamentals of GE2015 which made a substantial difference to the result.TGOHF said:Bit harsh on Ashcroft - he wants to sell copies of the book to make money.
He has to fund those dubious constituency polls somehow.
1. The Liberals were getting wiped out.
2. Labour were doing better than UNS in safe seats.
3. The SNP were doing better than UNS in the hardest seats to win.
Without the first two, the Tories wouldn't have had a majority even with the under-estimate of their VI that all pollsters shared.
Ashcroft's polling shouldn't be maligned, it turned out he was very useful for making predictions on the outcome.0 -
Plato_Says said:
Is the Gavelstone group a subset of Bullingdon?
I really don't give a toss what they got up to when young and stupid - but I'm intrigued as to who was daft enough to blab to Ashcroft about it.
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
Sorry, wrong club of oafs.0 -
I'm sure Liz will take it all in her stride... She'll probably symptahise with Dave for being stitched up by a wretch like Ashcroft... And of course we know The Royals hate the Papers.SouthamObserver said:Dave must be looking forward to his next audience with Her Majesty.
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He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
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He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
Plenty of Labour MPs went to Oxford. One ex shadow-chancellor was even in the Conservative Association, as was Bryant.
I agree its unlikely, but it's a possibility.
As a side issue: this was the 'Piers Gaveston' society wasn't it. In which case, it's limited numbers of suspects.
It's another example of why Cambridge a much better university than Oxford
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She was done over by the Sun doing a Heil when she was about 8yrs old...
We all have skeletons!SimonStClare said:
HMQ served with the forces during WWII, she's probably got her own stories to tell...SouthamObserver said:Dave must be looking forward to his next audience with Her Majesty.
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A queen who salutes hitler and a prime minister with an overactive affection for pigs, what I'd give to be a fly on that wall.0
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He mis-typed. He was actually trying to accuse Cam of a far worse thing: being an arsenal supporter. Than which as we know atm, it doesn't get much worse.blackburn63 said:
ref: @Estobar - if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.Estobar said:'We've all done stupid things'
Erm, when your PM allegedly sticks his cock into a dead pig's mouth this, trust me, is a whole different level.
If it's true, and esp, if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.
Post of the day from arch tribalist Mr Estobar.
Its mildly embarrassing for Cameron, but if you think it finishes his time as PM you're bonkers.0 -
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
So an even more limited number of people who may have, err, squealed. I think we can rule out Boris, since the first thing he would get asked is if he also did it, beyond that I can't imagine it will be difficult for No.10 to get a list of past members and find out who ratted, or should I say pigged, Dave out.0 -
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
Hugh Grant - lol.0 -
F1: ramble about Singapore. Bit rushed, but hopefully I didn't make a pig's ear of it:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/singapore-post-race-analysis.html0 -
Not sure all those pension funds holding shares would agree.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.
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It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
So we only know of three MPs that were involved in the group: Cameron, Johnson and Stewart. Cameron is the target of the allegation and Johnson has denied any involvement.0 -
One wonders how much of this was wishful thinking. He's had such a massive downer on Dave that I haven't taken anything he's said seriously in years.
It's like asking Ted Heath to comment on Mrs T.TGOHF said:
He did spot a couple of things - but a well positioned pine cone could have picked up Slab collapse. LA less successful in predicting Lab-Con marginals going darker blue and obviously he overegged his Kippers.Dair said:
Ashcroft correctly predicted three fundamentals of GE2015 which made a substantial difference to the result.TGOHF said:Bit harsh on Ashcroft - he wants to sell copies of the book to make money.
He has to fund those dubious constituency polls somehow.
1. The Liberals were getting wiped out.
2. Labour were doing better than UNS in safe seats.
3. The SNP were doing better than UNS in the hardest seats to win.
Without the first two, the Tories wouldn't have had a majority even with the under-estimate of their VI that all pollsters shared.
Ashcroft's polling shouldn't be maligned, it turned out he was very useful for making predictions on the outcome.0 -
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I think the point is, it was almost 30 years ago, - quite a few people will be remembering their ‘skeletons in the cupboard’ from their days at University, the military and every Rugby club up and down the country and thinking, been there done that.
Plato_Says said:She was done over by the Sun doing a Heil when she was about 8yrs old...
We all have skeletons!SimonStClare said:
HMQ served with the forces during WWII, she's probably got her own stories to tell...SouthamObserver said:Dave must be looking forward to his next audience with Her Majesty.
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Rory is far too young to be the source.
So an even more limited number of people who may have, err, squealed. I think we can rule out Boris, since the first thing he would get asked is if he also did it, beyond that I can't imagine it will be difficult for No.10 to get a list of past members and find out who ratted, or should I say pigged, Dave out.MaxPB said:
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
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The shouldn't have manipulated and cheated the emissions tests. If they are found to have done so in Europe as well then the fines will be much larger where emissions standards are more stringent. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving company or industry. The German Auto industry may be in big trouble here if systemic cheating is found. If VW are doing it, then I find it hard to believe that BMW and Mercedes were letting them get away with it.SouthamObserver said:
Not sure all those pension funds holding shares would agree.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.0 -
Let's name and shame the treacherous pig dog. (Can we still say that now?)MaxPB said: 0 -
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
I would not regard that WIKI article as remotely accurate - the Gaveston was already notorious when I went up in '76 (it claims it started in 77) and the choice of name and sexuality of the members were not coincidences - which is why I doubt Cameron, Johnson or Stewart were members.....of course it could have changed in the intervening decade or so......but if so it must have drifted significantly from its initial purpose....0 -
As a Spurs fan I'm feeling reasonably happy at the moment, however I've a feeling that may change on Wednesday evening.TOPPING said:
He mis-typed. He was actually trying to accuse Cam of a far worse thing: being an arsenal supporter. Than which as we know atm, it doesn't get much worse.blackburn63 said:
ref: @Estobar - if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.Estobar said:'We've all done stupid things'
Erm, when your PM allegedly sticks his cock into a dead pig's mouth this, trust me, is a whole different level.
If it's true, and esp, if the alleged photo comes to light, he's a goner.
Post of the day from arch tribalist Mr Estobar.
Its mildly embarrassing for Cameron, but if you think it finishes his time as PM you're bonkers.
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They do. That said, American courts seem very willing to impose swinging fines on foreign companies.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.0 -
Too many pigs make a pork.
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Oh do spill!
This sounds fascinating in a Jeremy Kyle kinda way.
I would not regard that WIKI article as remotely accurate - the Gaveston was already notorious when I went up in '76 (it claims it started in 77) and the choice of name and sexuality of the members were not coincidences - which is why I doubt Cameron, Johnson or Stewart were members.....of course it could have changed in the intervening decade or so......but if so it must have drifted significantly from its initial purpose....CarlottaVance said:
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
0 -
Plato_Says said:
Is the Gavelstone group a subset of Bullingdon?
I really don't give a toss what they got up to when young and stupid - but I'm intrigued as to who was daft enough to blab to Ashcroft about it.
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
The Piers Gaveston Society is named in honour of the Earl of Cornwall, allegedly the gay lover of Edward II.
Public displays of sexual intercourse allegedly take place at its social functions.0 -
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Plato_Says said:
Oh do spill!
This sounds fascinating in a Jeremy Kyle kinda way.
I would not regard that WIKI article as remotely accurate - the Gaveston was already notorious when I went up in '76 (it claims it started in 77) and the choice of name and sexuality of the members were not coincidences - which is why I doubt Cameron, Johnson or Stewart were members.....of course it could have changed in the intervening decade or so......but if so it must have drifted significantly from its initial purpose....CarlottaVance said:
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
As I understand it it was for gay boys and the pretty straight boys they lusted after - from the photos I've seen Cameron would never have been pretty enough....0 -
Mr. F, I knew I knew that name from somewhere.0
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Do we know for sure that Cameron was a member of it?MaxPB said:0 -
Dodgy, very dodgy.Jonathan said:0 -
Toby Young @edwest The members were bourgeois arrivistes for the most part. I wrote about it here http://t.co/cF5hlODIWP0
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That should win back the Muslim vote - and the Welsh…Jonathan said:Col Carlisle @collycoaster
@sidneyabbot Cameron will get over this as long as there are no incriminating pics of him snogging a lamb!0 -
The pension companies should use their vast shareholdings to put pressure on the companies they hold shares in not to be utter tw@ts by screwing both consumers and the environment.SouthamObserver said:
Not sure all those pension funds holding shares would agree.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.
Which is exactly what they were doing.0 -
Of course. I don't think the comments on Abbott are sexism so much as petty and childish insults. 'Yah, boo!, You're ugly, you are!' doesn't add much to political discourse.Theuniondivvie said:
I don't know anyone here personally.Charles said:
None of us know Abbott personally, so there's less invested.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm sure all the gallant PB knights so ready to defend one of their own against 'sexism' will be donning their armour as I type.JWisemann said:
Mate.richardDodd said:That pig wandering around Oxford..I thought she was on the opposition front bench now.
But being rude about someone just because of their looks is pretty pointless.
In any case I'd have thought disliking sexism should be a general principle, not a selective old pals act.
But people can certainly dislike sexism without feeling compelling to intervene on every occasion. But where there is a sense of community (even if it is not 'knowing someone personally') there is a great inclination to defend.0 -
TSE Think you are wrong in your header. Scandals stick when they build on pre-existing fears or beliefs - as with Corbyn. So this one will be seen as a gotcha by those who already don't like Cameron, but for those who voted Tory at the last election, they will not see how this from his past effects what they voted on - his performance in office.
As I say to kids asking my advice on colleges, the most important thing on your resume is your last job and your last latest achievement - what you did, or failed to do in school, and where you went and how you did in college, becomes less and less important with the passage of time.0 -
As I understand it it was for gay boys and the pretty straight boys they lusted after - from the photos I've seen Cameron would never have been pretty enough....CarlottaVance said:Plato_Says said:Oh do spill!
This sounds fascinating in a Jeremy Kyle kinda way.
I would not regard that WIKI article as remotely accurate - the Gaveston was already notorious when I went up in '76 (it claims it started in 77) and the choice of name and sexuality of the members were not coincidences - which is why I doubt Cameron, Johnson or Stewart were members.....of course it could have changed in the intervening decade or so......but if so it must have drifted significantly from its initial purpose....CarlottaVance said:
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
Not to mention too rich, in that sort of environment the "pretty straight boys" are the ones without a moneyed background.0 -
I've just got to this and I have to agree with the poster who said this kind of thing is commonplace where "team spirit" is important, and initiation is part of the process of having someone demonstrate their commitment to it. The police and rugby clubs are two such cases and I'm sure there are many others. It is peculiar but it usually has zero effect on others.
We know Cameron is posh and we've known about Bullingdon for ages (and that did affect others) so I think this goes nowhere other than confirming existing impressions. Ashcroft will earn a bob or two (as if he needs it) and people will have a good laugh, but as far as revenge goes, I think this is an OG.0 -
I thought that Clinton clearly demonstrated that oral sex is not "sexual relations"!Richard_Nabavi said:
A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
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This is almost making me feel sorry for Cameron, then I remembered what he a bully he has been and my compassion recedes a little.0
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*is* - you're on dodgy ground thereCharles said:
I thought that Clinton clearly demonstrated that oral sex is not "sexual relations"!Richard_Nabavi said:
A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
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MaxPB said:
The shouldn't have manipulated and cheated the emissions tests. If they are found to have done so in Europe as well then the fines will be much larger where emissions standards are more stringent. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving company or industry. The German Auto industry may be in big trouble here if systemic cheating is found. If VW are doing it, then I find it hard to believe that BMW and Mercedes were letting them get away with it.SouthamObserver said:
Not sure all those pension funds holding shares would agree.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.
As I understand it, almost every European company has cheated the tests in some way.
As I am not a VW fan, I have to say it could not happen to a nicer company...(they deny any deign problems - and have fewer recalls than the Japanese as they don't care)
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JEO ..Why did you think I was referring to Abbott..0
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Morning all
Needless to say the Conservatives on here are desperately trying to spin this as a non-story and in some respects it is. Politically, it's a non-story though there may be other revelations in the Ashcroft book which are more harmful but we'll see.
What the allegations do is to drag Cameron down to the same level as Corbyn, Clegg and other politicians whose private foibles have been publicised. It weakens the aura of respect and authority that Cameron has been able to cultivate as Prime Minister since 2010 as a "decent, ordinary bloke" and condemns him to ridicule both from his opponents (to be expected) but also from those who may have been more friendly or well-disposed.
The other aspect is Cameron's personal reaction. My view has always been that Cameron likes and even needs to be liked and respected - he thrives on the notion of popularity and geniality. We have also seen in the past he doesn't like to be challenged or personally attacked and it will be fascinating to see how he reacts to the inevitable jibes and japes. He is to an extent shielded by the Conservative Party and the Government machine and surrounded by a huge support network determined to please and even flatter.
Given all that, it's no surprise if he decides to backtrack on his decision to leave No.10. To leave all that voluntarily must seem as mad to him as it did to Thatcher and even Blair. Yet the insulation isn't 100% and I'm sure he will be aware of the derision and the mocking. Let's see how he responds personally to being mocked and ridiculed rather than respected and admired.0 -
I thought his defence was "oral sex is not adultery. The Bible says so."Charles said:
I thought that Clinton clearly demonstrated that oral sex is not "sexual relations"!Richard_Nabavi said:
A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
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Sure. My point was more that those paying into the funds probably do not deserve to see the values of their pensions reduced.JosiasJessop said:
The pension companies should use their vast shareholdings to put pressure on the companies they hold shares in not to be utter tw@ts by screwing both consumers and the environment.SouthamObserver said:
Not sure all those pension funds holding shares would agree.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
VW shares lost 18% in early trading.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819
Good. They deserve to suffer for this.
Which is exactly what they were doing.
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So we only know of three MPs that were involved in the group: Cameron, Johnson and Stewart. Cameron is the target of the allegation and Johnson has denied any involvement.JEO said:
It wasn't the Bullingdon, it was the Piers Gaveston Society. Wikipedia has a handy selection of its previous, ahem, members:SouthamObserver said:
He claims to have been in attendance, so he had to have been a Bullingdon oaf as well.MaxPB said:
Why does it have to be a Conservative MP?JosiasJessop said:
"A contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP"MarqueeMark said:Plato_Says said:Oh. Spoil sport.
The story was recounted to them by a contemporary of Mr Cameron who went on to become an MP – and who claims that another member of the group has photographic evidence to prove it.
The unnamed individual said to possess the picture failed to respond to the authors’ approaches.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242494/Revenge-PM-s-snub-billionaire-funded-Tories-years-sparked-explosive-political-book-decade.html#ixzz3mMfG0iot
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
....and who has had his own Prime Ministerial ambitions thwarted maybe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society
There are a couple of MPs named.
There are about a dozen members each year, plus female guests.
So probably up to 30-50 people *could* have known. Probably likely to be c. 20 given that it would presumably only have been during initiation.
Although did the source actually say he/she was *present* at the event or just that it happened and there was photographic evidence? (not going to read the Mail article).
Also, it wasn't clear to me that the source was *currently* an MP - just that 'they went on to become an MP'.0 -
Surely "is not" is a Clintonian definition of "is".Plato_Says said:*is* - you're on dodgy ground there
Charles said:
I thought that Clinton clearly demonstrated that oral sex is not "sexual relations"!Richard_Nabavi said:
A libel case based on that distinction is probably not one which the lawyers would recommend pursuing!JEO said:People seem to be going on to dangerous territory now. Putting your genitals in something disgusting as a dare and having sex with that something are not the same thing. Claiming that endangers libel, I would think.
As in "this email on my personal less secure server is not classiffied material."
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I think it is going to turn out that it has all just been a simple misunderstanding.
"No, Dave - I said put the cox in the dead pig's mouth!"0 -
One of the interesting aspects of this story is "where is the line".
I reckon there is little doubt that Cameron will survive this. It's embarrassing, but that's about it. In terms of political impact, it will probably stop him bringing up the pasts of others. There will be a witty conference remark and that will be that.
But where is the line in 2015?
If it happened last week would that matter?
If a photo were to emerge, would that make a difference?
If a second incident were to come to light, could the idea that this was a habit be enough to end a PM career?
Curious.
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